The only religious tyranny going on bout hey is that which is perpetrated by you, Terence Blackett. Jesus Peace, man, get a life, one which hopefully exists off the Net.

@TB

Here is what Adrian had to say about your submission on FB:

Adrian Hinds What is this nonsense of trying to fit ancient incidents into modern social interpretations?

Then if someone also uses modern interpretations to dismiss the new testament as the fertile imagination of thomas aquinas he would be none to please.

@Sargeant

Nice selection!

@ Mongoose

Y’all have thrown me out the church, out the chapel; out from every unworthy institution possible – and now you want to extricate me from cyberspace as well…

Looks like the only place that will be left for me is to keep company with Julian Assange…

LOL!!!

@TB
You aint want Christ, you want a woman, but is Assange is the yard stick by which you wish to be measured, you may view Christ in a better when all is said and done.

@David
you hear anything about Rommel threathening to run as an independent against Dale Marshall in St. Joseph. Also it seems like either Henderson Bovell or Slyvan Greenidge gone an put themselves in trouble by tampering with electronic/computer crown property out of the former LOTO office. You aint hear anything?

BTW: Mara gine really tek tuh politics by way of the St.John by-election? The DLP gine really play suh loose wid a safe seat?

BAFBFP
Dont bet, man.
I wont respond to the rampant ravings but I will probably post some Scriptural thruths that rebutt the general nonsense perveyed here. I read it earlier this morning and went off to partake and take part in some serious Bible studies. followed by a lunch that has taken the wind out of my sails.

@Adrian

There is some tension the BLP camp, how it all plays out we will have to wait and see.

@TB
Don’t mind these unwashed masses… you are on target, boss. So far, so good. But if I may ask – what is your motive for this particular submission?

@checkit-out

The comment was a response to Adrian, context man! 🙂

Your other point, no doubt about it, several people will be upset regardless of who is selected. Such is the nature of the beast.

@BGI
“what is your motive for this particular submission?” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEimLZUz_YI

” One thing is for SURE jesus is either who he is or we can disregard him at our own peril”. Wow! well let me see, that inlcude yours truly , the confucists and the Hindus– roughy one-half the world population. Well I am comforted by the thought that I will be having a lot of company in hell.

The Bible might be the greatest allegoric book ever written.However, it can also be said of the epic of Homer, Gilgamesh and the Mahabharata.

WHY THE MAGI CAME
WHY THE MAGI CAME FROM THE EAST

Have you ever heard of Balaam the son of Beor? Have you ever studied his story? Probably not, He is one of those little-known characters tucked away in the Old Testament, and yet he is an extremely interesting one. The story of his life is found in the book of Numbers.

Numbers chapters 22 to 25 describes the story of Balaam, the peculiar prophet- a man who is difficult to ponder. He is one of the band of strange, enigmatic and mysterious individuals that comes across the page of Scripture who are difficult to evaluate such as Cain, or Esau, or Samson, or Saul, or Absalom, or Judas or Demas.

Balaam was a religious racketeer and a fake, and phony prophet sooth sayer etc whom the Bible attaches some importance to, because Micah in Micah 6:5 warned Israel that they ought to remember him when he wrote, “Oh my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the Lord”

Balaam was a Midianite who is also mentioned three times in the New Testament and each time it is in connection with apostasy. In 2 Peter we are told about the way of Balaam. In Jude we are told about the error of Balaam. In Revelation we are told about the doctrine of Balaam.

IT IS NOTEWORTHY THAT THERE ARE MANY AROUND LIKE BALAAM TODAY.THEY ARE BASICALLY THE DEVIL’S BUDDIES BUT THEY USE THE GUISE OF CHRISTIANITY FOR THEIR ENTRAPPMENT!

If you will take the time to read the story of Balaam in Numbers 22-25 about how Balak paid him handsomely to curse the people of Israel as they encamped in Moab in preparation to cross the Jordan to enter Canaan after their 40 years of wandering, you will actually come to Balaam”s prediction in 24:17–19

“I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth. And Edom shall be a possession, Seir also shall be a possession for his enemies; and Israel shall do valiantly.
Out of Jacob shall come he that shall have dominion, and shall destroy him that remaineth of the city [Num. 24:17–19].
There Balaam says, “I see the Lord, but not here–off in the future. I see him as a star that comes forth from Jacob, and a scepter that rises from Israel.”

To whom is he referring? To Jesus the Messiah. Isn’t that amazing? This, is the promise which eventually brought the magi to look for Jesus after his birth. Do you remember what they said when they arrived in Jerusalem and sought out Herod? “Where is he who is born King of the Jews? [‘A scepter shall rise from Israel.’] For we have seen his star in the east . . .” That is what brought the magi.

Evidently this discourse found its way into the literature of the East, and the magi accepted it as a promise of the coming Redeemer, and they went to search him out. So, how much did Balaam know? He saw the Lord Jesus Christ. He saw things that none of his contemporaries saw. He had an amazing amount of truth available to him.

This remarkable prophecy in Numbers 24:17–19 explains inter alia where the wise men learned to look for a star, how they associated a star with a king born in Israel, and why they made the long and arduous journey to worship him. About 1500 years after this prophecy was given, a whole company of wise men came from the east enquiring “Where is he that is born King of the Jews for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him” (Matt. 2:2).

These wise men obviously knew this prophecy of Balaam, and so when they saw the remarkable star, they remembered that Balaam had said, “… There shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel …” (Num. 25:17).

These wise men probably also knew the prophecy of Daniel (who had also prophesied in the east) the prophecy of Daniel which gave the approximate time that the Messiah would come (and Daniel likewise had prophesied in the east) obviously knew this prophecy When we consider all this the visit of the wise men to Jerusalem is very understandable .

What is very ironic, is that Israel, who had the Old Testament with all the prophecies of Christ’s coming, was not looking for Him—with the exception of a very small minority, such as Anna and Simeon. When the company of wise men arrived in Jerusalem, the entire city, including Herod the king, was surprised.

Jesus is coming again, and many will be quite surprised at his coming, because they are not actively heeding the invitations or commands to be prepared for his advent. Many will be caught quite unprepared to meet him just like the foolish virgins described in Matthew 25.

NOTE THAT THE BIBLE DOES NOT TEACH THAT THREE KINGS CAME TO VISIT JESUS. iT ONLY SAYS THAT THREE GIFTS WERE BROUGHT. IT SEEMS THAT THE WISE MEN FROM THE EAST WERE PART OF A LARGE ENTOURAGE. They no doubt travelled from thier home land to the east pf the Euphrates up to the travel hub at Haran, and then took the major trade route of that day that linked the continents of Asia and Africa. That route traversed Israel and went on into Egypt.

I HOPE THAT THIS CLARIFIES OR HELP YOU UNDERSTAND THE BACKGROUND TO THE VISIT OF THE MAGI FOM A SIMPLE UNDERSTANDING OF SCRIOPTURE

TwiddledeDUMB wrote
In conclusion, for those looking for a message in Christmas – “there’s NONE!” On the day of reckoning, none of these emblems will have any meaning. What is at stake is NOT* whether Jesus was born and is worthy of a birthday celebration (for He never celebrated anything but the Father’s Love). What is crucial is how Jesus lived! The price He had to pay for being anti-RELIGIOUS, anti-POLITIQUE, anti-ESTABLISHMENT but above all, anti-EVIL. That price was paid in His ignominious betrayal, condemnation and eventual murder at the hands of His own kindred sanctioned by the laws and decrees of the state government. Thankfully, what transcends all those vivid, lurid, dastardly experiences was and is the power of His Resurrection. This can be the only focus – and it’s high time for us to awake out of sleep!
——————————————————–
FRIENDS
When one starts badly, they finish badly. When you start with nonsense, you end with nonsense. I have never read a book, or piece of prose by any one of consequence that ended with a sensible conclusion that started sTUPIDLY . Here we see this demonstrated again BY T Dumb!

Re for those looking for a message in Christmas – “there’s NONE!”
Really?

Call the remembrance that Jesus came to this world to die and save people from their sins what ever you like, but that he came can not be refuted. It can not be refuted that he died and rose again and ascended into the heavens where he sits at the Father’s right hand interceding for believers as clearly taught in 1 John 2:2 and as pictured prophetically in Zechariah 3: 3. From thence some day soon he will come to judge those who are alive in Chist and those who are dead in their trespasses and sins as taught by the Scriptures. Don’t take my word on this, at all. Read it in the Scriptures for yourself.

Zoe, I wonder if you could pull out some of the verses that clearly teach that Jesus came to this world to die and save people from their sins.

Whether we call the time he came Christmas or not or whatever we call it, it is meet and right that we chose even an annual remembrance TO THINK UPON THE SAVIORS BIRTH WHO BROUGHT SALVATION TO US ALL!

In due course I will trace the “Christmas story” from Genesis through the Old Testament to the New Testament. Therein we will clearly see the message of the Gospel being presented . The tenets of the Gospel is given in I Corinthians Chapter 15:1-4 thus
1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

here T Dumb again……………What is crucial is how Jesus lived!
Huh!
We are being told not to reflect on the Savior birth but to muse upon his life! Could he have become flesh and dwell among us in the flesh if he had not be born?
Hebrews 2: 9-18 teaches
. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12. Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13. And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15. And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Jesus’s life declares only that he did no sin nor was any guile found I him. BUT IT IS IN HIS DEATH THAT SALVATION IS WROUGHT
It was by the shedding of his blood that SALVATION WAS BOUGHT. Note vers4 14 above through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15. And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
For without the shedding of blood there is no remission of Sin. Jesus died as the sinless spotless lamb of God for us as pictured in the Levitical offerings.

Re The price He had to pay for being anti-RELIGIOUS, anti-POLITIQUE, anti-ESTABLISHMENT but above all, anti-EVIL. That price was paid in His ignominious betrayal, condemnation and eventual murder at the hands of His own kindred sanctioned by the laws and decrees of the state government.

Jesus was steeped in the Jewish religion and practiced it fully, as any reader of the Gospels can see. Jesus had no problems with the politics of his day – he paid the taxes, he went to the temple for the feasts as required by his religion and the Jewish law, he did not fight the status quo as set up by Rome. JESUS CAME TO DIE. JESUS WAS FOCUSSED ON WHAT HE CAME TO DO
JESUS WAS FOCUSSED IN DOING THE FATHER’s WILL

HIS BETRAYAL CONDEMNATION AND MURDER at the hands of His own kindred WAS ALL PREDICTED HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE IT OCCURRED!

Jesus death was not sanctioned by the laws and decrees of the state government. HIS SEVERAL FALSE TRIALS WERE CONTRARY TO THE LAWS OF ISRAEL IN EVERY RESPECT. They were held at night. Members of the Sanhedrin were missing. He was shuffled before three sets of judges. The witnesses could not agree on the charges brought against him. The Roman governor convicted him AFTER REPETEDLY DECLARING HIM NOT GUILTY!

Re Thankfully, what transcends all those vivid, lurid, dastardly experiences was and is the power of His Resurrection. This can be the only focus

We thought it was his life. Didn’t TwiddledeDUMB say earlier in his contradictory conclusion that “What is crucial is how Jesus lived!

What a hilarious rant by a raving rambling intellectual runt!
This man has raised the bar on BU for contradiction and consistent crap. He doesnt know left from right or right from wrong and he CLEARLY DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH.

GP, Can you not put forward your point of view without insulting others who are differently persuaded, you sophomoric twoft!

@rhrbarb

Have you checked the resolution setting on you computer?

jack spratt
I will say what I have to say as I choose too just as everyone else on BU does. OK ? Whether you like it or not.
You have never been………nor can you ever be one of my examiners or teachers in BIBLE or BIOCHEM at any level!

There is being differently persuaded and the truth. There is being differently persuaded and rampant rubbish relayed by a raving ranting runt who is reducing the realities of the Word of truth to rubble!

TwiddledeDUMB wrote
Christmas is so far removed from true Christianity that many refuse to admit or even choose to break with this pagan tradition. On the religious right are those who argue that we have taken Christ out of X’mas. The question is: “Was He ever in it?” On the left of the debate, are those who believe in the secularization of the holiday season and see it as a time for feasting, revelry and merriment with some hoping to outlaw any religious connotations. Whatever our position is – one thing is clear, to practice a tradition without having true knowledge of it is no different to sheep being willingly led to slaughter.

Which is more pagan to celebrate Christmas or to write a bundle of junk and untruths? Of course Christ as been taken out of Christmas, or whatever is referred to as Christmas, and yes he was ever in it. Because it can not be denied that THE WORD BECAME FLESH AND DWELT AMONG US. IT IS MIND BOGGLING THAT GOD IN FLESH WOULD WANT TO COME AND DWELL AMONG US. Call it Christmas. Call it what you like. But there is nothing wrong for those folk who sincerely take the time to remember or celebrate that the Christ child came in the flesh to dwell with us. Read about it in John 1:1-4 or Galatians 4:4
1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2. The same was in the beginning with God.
3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men
There are several church groups who do not celebrate Christmas at all, or even Easter, but they celebrate and teach the doctrine of Christ throughout the year they stress
THE VIRGIN BIRTH OF CHRIST
THE VICTORIOUS LIFE OF CHRIST
THE VICARIOUS SUFFERING OF CHRIST
THE VICTORIOUS RESURRECTION OF CHRIST
THE VINDICATIVE ACENSION OF CHRIST
THE VITAL SESSION OF CHRIST
THE VISIBLE RETURN OF CHRIST
RE Some of us accept that the epistemological roots of Christmas is to be found in Roman Catholic theology and by 529 A.D., after Constantine had made Christianity the official state religion of the Roman Empire – his successor Emperor Justinian subsequently made Christmas a civic holiday. The celebration of Christmas reached its peak – some would argue its worst moments – in the medieval period when it became “a time for conspicuous consumption and unequalled revelry.” In the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, under the heading of “Christmas” says that: “Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church…the first evidence of the feast is from Egypt… Pagan customs centering around the January calends gravitated to Christmas.”
All of this twiddle might be true, but who cares? This is not the issue THE REAL ISSUE IS DO YOU KNOW THE CHRIST OF CHRISTMAS? DO YOU KNOW THAT THE BABE IN THE MANGER WENT TO THE CROSS TO PAY THE WAGES OF SIN? THAT IS THE REAL ISSUE
Do you know the Christ of Christmas? Precious Babe of lowly birth. Gift of love from God the Father; Saviour given to all the earth. Do you know the Christ of Christmas? Does He live within your heart? Can you say to Him ‘My Saviour’? Worship Him as CHRIST THE LORD?

Do you know the Christ of Christmas? He’s the Christ of Calvary Heavenly guest, despised, rejected; Crucified for you, for me. Have you room for Him 0 listen! Do not bid Him to depart! Take Him now to be your Saviour, Christ of Christmas in your heart.

When you know the Christ of Christmas, Joy of joy to you belong; Peace that passeth understanding; wondrous, new redemption song, Life eternal your possession, precious promise now of God! When you know Him as your Saviour Christ of Christmas in your heart

And again your choice of scripture from Jeremiah is out of context and irrelevant to the issue as to whether folk can celebrate Christmas or not. If you want to use Scripture to debunk the RC Theology and related traditions you should go to Colossians 2: 8- 10 & 16-17

8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
16. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
But TwiddledeDUMB, thou raiser of the bar you cant go to Collosians 2:16 BECAUSE IT CLEARLY CONTRADICTS WHAT YOUR RELIGION TEACHES FALSLY ABOUT SABBATHS AND HOLY DAYS.

To practice a tradition or religion based upon sabbaths without having true knowledge of what the Bible says is no different to sheep being willingly led to slaughter.

Nowhere does the Scripture says not to celebrate the birth of Christ BUT IT CLEARLY STATES IN COLLOSIANS 2 :16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. Ah lie?

GP

In your post at 6:27, you wrote that “Balaam was a religious racketeer and a fake, and phony prophet sooth sayer etc whom the Bible attaches some importance to”. You further characterise those today who are like Balaam as the “devil’s buddies”. So far so good. But then you make reference to Balaam’s prophesy in Numbers 25. This prophesy according to you motivated and guided the Kings of the East in their mission to find a King born in Israel.

Can you see my confusion? Was Balaam the “phony” prophet, the devil’s buddy, the same Balaam who correctly prophesies the birth of Jesus?

TwiddledeDUMB is both the worse chooser of titles for articles and the most adept at bringing forth ABSOLUTE LIES in those titles.

If you will read Genesis 3:14-15, you will clearly see in the first promise of a Savior (which is what the Christmas story is about) that The Message of Christmas Past Was NOT Hatched In Infanticide, State-Sponsored Murder & Religious Tyranny

14. And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15. And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Verse 15 – the prote evangelium- points out and predicts that God would pit enmity between the seed or offspring of the devil and the seed or offspring of the woman, i.e Christ.

Whereas the devil would bruise the heel of the woman’s seed, the seed of the woman would bruise the devil’s head.

At the cross, the devil thought he would be victorious by having Christ killed, but instead the devil received a mortal blow to his head because as Hebrews 2:14 points out
14. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15. And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Hebrews 2:14 points out that through death Christ, destroyed him that had the power of death, that is, the devil, and thereby delivered mankind from the sting of death.

Paul could this say in 1 Corinthians 15 55. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56. The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

In Romans 16:20 Paul asserts in verse 20. And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.

In other words the full benefits of what Christ wrought on the cross would come to full fruition with the soon return of Christ to take up his throne. This arguement is also presented in Romans 8.

Now tell me which part of this initial section of the gospel or “Christmas” story Was NOT Hatched In Infanticide, State-Sponsored Murder & Religious Tyranny?

TwiddledeDUMB is both a liar and a deliberate deceiver like his father the devil as taught in John 8:44 and in I John 3

Zion1971 | December 19, 2010 at 8:24 PM |

@Watchman on the wall.

“Let me be me. “heaven” weren’t meant for all of us because if that were so then god would have made us all perfect. That according to your goodly book that we were all borned in sin and shape in iniquity and many are called but a few are choosen is enough proof for me that the vacany in heaven is a limited one.”

Zion my friend, I love you too much to let you be! That’s the whole point of this discussion. The fact that you appear to have given up, and are most accepting of the fact that you have to reside for eternity in hell, NEED NOT BE!

Have you actually read the above description of hell? Is that what you really desire? If not, that’s exactly why God sent His Son Jesus Christ to Earth, to redeem sinners like you and me.

God did not bring about imperfection in man. God created man and woman in perfect state ………. first man, and then woman, the latter to fill an unmet need in Adam’s otherwise perfect world. Their choice to follow satan instead of God brought about devastating consequences that continue to plague us even today.

Because of God’s love, Jesus came to redeem us out of this sinful and stench-filled world, and by that we are not speaking of “the earth”, as many heretic church leaders mislead others today. The WORLD that God loves represents EVERY SINGLE soul including yours and mine. Hell is the place God has designated for satan and those who follow him. We were all born in iniquity because we inherited Adam’s sinful nature.

But Jesus came to die for us, to demonstrate to us victory over sin, so that we could be redeemed of the sin passed on by Adam, and so that we could live with Him in eternity. It doesn’t cost you anything Zion; Jesus has already paid the terrible and costly price.

In your heart, accept Him tonight as Lord and Saviour, repent of your past sins, ask His forgiveness and obey His Word. He will come into your heart and change you. You will no longer look forward to being “comfortable” with the company you WERE expecting to co-mingle with in hell. That place was not meant for you.

God moves in mysterious ways
The song below has great lyrics. It was written by a man called Van Sickle, a non¬believer, to prove that one doesn’t have to be a Christian to write a Christian song. However, God, with His great patience, turned the tables on him. Years later, Van Sickle was sitting in a service where a choir sang his hymn. He came under conviction and gave his heart to Christ!

All hail to Thee, Immanuel, we cast our crowns before Thee;
Let every heart obey Thy will, and every voice adore Thee.
In praise to Thee, our Savior King, the vibrant chords of Heaven ring, And echo back the mighty strain: All hail! All hail! All hail Immanuel!
Refrain
Hail to the King we love so well! Immanuel! Immanuel!
Hail to the King we love so well! Immanuel! Immanuel!
Glory and honor and majesty, wisdom and power be unto Thee, Now and evermore!
Hail to the King we love so well! Immanuel! Immanuel!
Hail to the King we love so well! Immanuel! Immanuel!
King of kings and Lord of lords, all hail, Immanuel!

All hail to Thee, Immanuel, the ransomed hosts surround Thee;
And earthly monarchs clamor forth their sovereign King to crown Thee.
While those redeemed in ages gone, assembled round the great white throne,
Break forth into immortal song: All hail! All hail! All hail Immanuel!
Refrain
All hail to Thee, Immanuel, our risen King and Savior!
Thy foes are vanquished, and Thou art omnipotent forever.
Death, sin and hell no longer reign, and Satan’s pow’r is burst in twain;
Eternal glory to Thy name: All hail! All hail! All hail Immanuel!
Refrain
Charles Gabriel set it to a beautiful tune
http://www.hymntime.com/tch/htm/a/l/l/allhail2.htm

@ Watchman on the wall. The Zionman appreciate your kind words and the message.There is no turning back for me right now, I have already book my passage on the ziontrain going to zionland. ask me where? I don’t know.

I think I was very accurate clear and logical enough. I asked the readers thus …….If you will take the time to read the story of Balaam in Numbers 22-25 about how Balak paid him handsomely to curse the people of Israel as they encamped in Moab in preparation to cross the Jordan to enter Canaan after their 40 years of wandering, you will actually come to Balaam”s prediction in 24:17–19

I told you where you could learn all you needed to know about Balam in the Bible.
You see I pointed out in rather clear English that one would come to Balaam”s prediction in 24:17–19 while reading his story. One would thus coherently and clearly come to the realisation about who and what Ballam was by reaDING HIS BIOGRAPHY FOR ONE’S SELF. My experience in learning and teaching is that you dont or can not always tell the student/learner everything. One must also sometimes leave room for self discovery.

THE MYTHOLOGIES SURROUNDING THE ANCIENT MAGI* ARE A “dime a dozen” – HERE’S ONE SUCH VIEW FROM THE…

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

THE MAGI

ma’-ji, (Magoi (Matthew 2:1, 7, 16, “Wise-men,” the Revised Version (British and American) and the King James Version, “Magi” the Revised Version margin)):

1. Originally a Median Tribe:

Were originally a Median tribe (Herodotus i.101); and in Darius’ Inscriptions Magush means only a member of that tribe. It was one of them, Bardiya, who pretended to be Smerdis and raised the rebellion against Cambyses. Rabh Magh in Jeremiah 39:3 does not mean “Chief Magus,” but is in Assyrian Rab mugi (apparently “commander”; compare tab mugi sa narkabti, “commander of chariots”), having no connection with “Magus” (unless perhaps Magians were employed as charioteers, Media being famous for its Nisean steeds). The investment of the Magi with priestly functions, possibly under Cyrus (Xen. Cyrop. viii), but probably much later, was perhaps due to the fact that Zoroaster (Zarathustra) belonged, it is said, to that tribe. They guarded the sacred fire, recited hymns at dawn and offered sacrifices of haoma-juice, etc. Herodotus i.132) says they also buried the dead (perhaps temporary burial is meant as in Vendidad, Farg. viii). They were granted extensive estates in Media for their maintenance, and the athravans and other priests mentioned in the Avesta may have been of their number, though only once does the word “Magus” occur in the book (in the compound Moghu-thbish, “Magus-hater,” Yasna, lxv.7, Geldner’s edition). The Magi even in Herodotus’ time had gained a reputation for “magic” articles (compare Acts 13:6, 8). They also studied astrology and astronomy (rationes mundani motus et siderum (Amm. Marc., xxiii.6, 32)), partly learned from Babylon.

2. The Magi at Bethlehem:

These latter studies explain why a star was used to lead them to Christ at Bethlehem, when our Lord was less than two years old (Matthew 2:16). No reliable tradition deals with the country whence these particular magi came. Justin Martyr, Tertullian and Epiphanius fancied that they came from Arabia, founding their opinion on the fact that “gold, frankincense and myrrh” abounded in Yemen. But the text says they came not from the South but from the East. Origen held that they came from Chaldea, which is possible. But Clement of Alexandria, Diodorus of Tarsus, Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexandria, Juvencus, Prudentius and others are probably right in bringing them from Persia. Sargon’s settlement of Israelites in Media (circa 730-728 B.C. (2 Kings 17:6)) accounts for the large Hebrew element of thought which Darmesteter recognizes in the Avesta (SBE, IV, Intro, chapter vi). Median astronomers would thus know Balaam’s prophecy of the star out of Jacob (Numbers 24:17). That the Jews expected a star as a sign of the birth of the Messiah is clear from the tractate Zohar of the Gemara and also from the title “Son of the Star” (Bar Kokhebha) given to a pseudo-Messiah

(130-35 A.D.). Tacitus (Hist. v.13) and Suetonius (Vesp. iv) tell us how widespread in the East at the time of Christ’s coming was the expectation that “at that time men starting from Judea would make themselves masters of things” (compare Virgil, Ecl. iv). All this would naturally prepare the Magi to follow the star when it appeared.

See also ASTROLOGY; ASTRONOMY; DIVINATION; MAGIC; WISE MEN; ZOROASTRIANISM.

LITERATURE.

Herodotus; Xenophon; Amm. Marcellinus; Strabo; Spiegel, Altpersische Keilinschriften; Geldner, Avesta; Muss-Arnolt, Assyrian Dict.; BDB; RE.

W. St. Clair Tisdall

STAR OF THE MAGI

” 1. The Magi

2. Herod’s Enquiry

3. Two Facts concerning the Star

4. The Wisdom of the Magi Not Astrological

5. The Prophecy of Balaam

6. The Star Not a Conjunction of Planets

7. The Star Not Nova Cassiopeiae

8. The Legend of the Well

9. Lesson of the Narrative

1. The Magi:

The birth of our Lord was announced in a supernatural manner not only to Jews by the angelic message to the shepherds, but also to Gentiles, for “Wise-men from the east came to Jerusalem, saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we saw his star in the east, and are come to worship him” (Matthew 2:1, 2). The word which has been rendered “wise men” in the King James Version and the English Revised Version (the American Standard Revised Version “Wise-men”) is “Magi.” These, according to Herodotus, were originally a tribe of the Medes (Herodotus i.101) and from their supposed skill in divination the term was applied to the learned and priestly caste among the followers of Zoroaster; they were thus in principle worshippers of one only God, and rejecters of polytheism and idolatry. The simple creed and high morality, which Zoroastrianism in its purest form professed, were well adapted to prepare its faithful disciples to receive a further revelation, and we may reasonably believe that the wise men who had been thus guided to worship the new-born king of the Jews had been faithful to the light afforded to them, for “in every nation he that feareth him (God), and worketh righteousness, is acceptable to him” (Acts 10:35).

See MAGI.

2. Herod’s Enquiry:

The gospel tells us that the arrival of the Magi at Jerusalem threw Herod the king and all the city into great excitement, and Herod at once called a council of all the chief priests and scribes of the people that he might learn from them where the Messiah should be born. In reply they quoted to him the prophecy of Micah which had indicated Bethlehem as the destined site. “Then Herod privily called the Wise-men, and learned of them exactly what time the star appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search out exactly concerning the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word, that I also may come and worship him. And they, having heard the king, went their way; and lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was. And when they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy” (Matthew 2:7-10). So much, and no more, are we told of the star of the Magi, and the story is as significant in its omissions as in that which it tells us.

3. Two Facts concerning the Star:

What sort of a star it Was that led the wise men; how they learned from it that the King of the Jews was born; how it went before them; how it stood over where the young Child was, we do not know. We are indeed told but two facts concerning it: first, that its appearance in some way or other did inform the wise men, not of the birth of a king of the Jews, but of the King of the Jews for whose coming, not Israel only, but more or less consciously the whole civilized world was waiting; next, that, when they had come to Judea in consequence of this information, the star pointed out to them the actual spot where the new-born King was to be found. It went before them till it came and stood over where the young Child was. It may also be inferred from Matthew 2:10 that in some way or other the wise men had for a time lost sight of the star, so that the two facts mentioned refer to two separate appearances. The first appearance induced the Magi to leave the East and set out for Judea; the second pointed out to them the place at Bethlehem where the object of their search was to be found. Nothing is told us respecting the star except its work as a guide.

There can be no doubt that the Magi took their journey in obedience to direct revelation from God, and since we are told that God warned them in a dream not to return to Herod, so that they departed to their own country another way, it is but reasonable to suppose that their outward journey had been directed in a similar manner.

4. The Wisdom of the Magi Not Astrological:

It has been conjectured that as the Magians were credited with a great skill in astrology they may have been able to forecast the birth of our Lord by the rules of their article But this conjecture must be peremptorily rejected. It ascribes to the pseudo-science of astrology a reality to which it has no claim, for it is inconceivable that the planetary configurations can really foretell the birth of princes. Even if it were admitted that such could be the case, no such event could be taken as indicating the One Birth for which the world was waiting, unless some direct and explicit revelation from God had been received to that effect. For that Birth was necessarily unique, and science can deal only with repeated events. No astronomical research is now, or was at any time, competent in itself to supply the indication needed; it was not in virtue of any natural learning that the wise men understood the meaning of the star. And if a mere astronomical research was helpless to supply any such power of prediction, still more emphatically must the claim of “occult knowledge” be disallowed. So far as occult knowledge has had any basis in fact at all, it has been simply a euphemistic way of describing the frauds, impostures and crimes by which debased heathen priesthoods and “medicine men” have imposed upon the gross superstition of their followers. The very suggestion that, by means like these, God’s purpose would be made known shows that those who suggest it have not entirely shaken off the influence of heathenism.

5. The Prophecy of Balaam:

The suggestion has often been made that the prophecy of Balaam, “There shall come forth a star out of Jacob, and a scepter shall rise out of Israel” (Numbers 24:17), may have been preserved in the East and have furnished the clue upon which the Magi acted. It is a pleasing thought that these devout Gentiles had thus preserved and meditated upon the prophecy given through one who may well have been of an allied order to themselves; but that prophecy can surely not have been sufficient in itself, and some much more direct intimation must have been vouch-safed to them; though the prophecy may have aided their faith and have dictated the form in which they announced their mission to King Herod and the Jews.

6. The Star Not a Conjunction of Planets:

We are not told how the Magi learned the meaning of the star, neither are we told what kind of a star it was. Some three centuries ago the ingenious and devout Kepler supposed that he could identify the star with a conjunction of the planets Jupiter and Saturn in the constellation Pisces, the two planets being so close as to seem a single star. This conjunction took place in the month of May, 7 B.C., not very long before the birth of our Lord is supposed to have taken place. But the late Professor Pritchard has shown (Nature and Revelation, 243-55), first, that a similar and closer conjunction occurred 59 years earlier, and should therefore have brought a Magian deputation to Judea then. Next, that the two planets never approached each other nearer than twice the diameter of the moon, so that they would have appeared, not as one star, but as two, and thirdly, if the planets had seemed to stand over Bethlehem as the wise men left Jerusalem, they would assuredly not have appeared to do so when they arrived at the little city. Ingenious as the suggestion was, it may be dismissed as unworthy of serious consideration.

7. The Star Not Nova Cassiopeiae:

Another suggestion has received at times a very wide popularity. In the year 1572 a wonderful new star appeared in the constellation Cassiopeia. At its brightest it outshone Venus and was visible in the daylight, and though it gradually declined in splendor it was not lost to sight until after 16 months. There have been other instances of outbursts of short-lived bright stars, and in the annals of the years 1265 and 952 some brief notices have been found which may have referred to objects of this class, but more probably described comets. The guess was then hazarded that these three events might all refer to the same object; that the star in Cassiopeia might be a “variable” star, bursting into brilliancy about every 350 years or so; that it was the star that announced the birth of our Lord, and that it would reappear about the end of the 19th century to announce His second coming. This rumor was widely spread, and from time to time ignorant people have noticed the planet Venus which shines with extraordinary brilliancy when in particular parts of her orbit, and have imagined, especially when she has been thus seen as a morning star in the east, that she was none other than the star of Bethlehem at its predicted return. There is no reason to suppose that the star of 1572 had ever appeared before that date or will ever appear again; but in any case we are perfectly sure that it could not have been the star of Bethlehem, for Cassiopeia is a northern constellation, and the wise men in their journey from Jerusalem to Bethlehem had Cassiopeia and all her stars behind their back.

The statement that the star “went before” the Magi gives the impression that it was some supernatural light like the shekhinah, “glory,” resting upon the tabernacle, or the pillar of fire which led the children of Israel through the wilderness. But this view raises the questions as to the form in which it first appeared to the wise men, when they were still in the East, and how they came to call it a star, when they must have recognized how un-starlike it was. On the other hand, if what they saw when in the East was really a star, it seems most difficult to understand how it can have appeared to go before them and to stand over the place where the young Child lay.

8. The Legend of the Well:

Yet there is a legend still current in Palestine which may possibly explain how an actual star may have fulfilled this part, and there is a well at Bethlehem that is still shown to pilgrims as the means whereby the wise men “saw the star” the second time. It is said that when they had reached Bethlehem, apparently nearly at mid-day, one of them went to the well of the inn in order to draw water. Looking down into the well he saw the star reflected from the surface of the water and knew that it must be directly overhead. Its re-observation under such unusual circumstances would be a sufficient assurance to the Magi that they had reached the right place, and inquiry in the inn would soon inform them of the visit of the shepherds, and of the angelic message which had told them where to find the babe `born in the city of David, the Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.’

If we may accept this legend we may take the star as having been what astronomers know as a “new” or “temporary” star, like that of 1572. When the Magi first saw it, and in consequence set out upon their journey, it may have been an evening star and thus, being seen only in the west shortly after sunset, it would appear, evening after evening, to point them their way to Judea. As they journeyed thither it probably faded as temporary stars in general quickly do. At the same time it would have drawn nearer and nearer to the sun, until it was lost in its rays by the time they reached Jerusalem, when they would seem to have lost sight of it altogether. Having thus lost it, they would naturally not expect to see it again until it had drawn away from the sun on the other side, and been detected as a morning star in the east before sunrise; they would not expect to discover it in the daytime.

In the ordinary way, the planet Venus is, after the two “great lights,” the brightest object in the heavens, but temporary stars are on record that have even exceeded Venus in brightness. The difficulty of seeing the planet Venus in full sunshine does not lie in her want of brightness, but in picking up and holding steadily so minute a point of light in the broad expanse of the gleaming sky. This difficulty, which would be even greater in the case of a star, would be lessened by looking down the well, as the shaft would narrow the field of view down to a small area, and would direct the observer’s gaze straight to the star. There may also have been, at the very time of observation, a temporary revival of the brightness of the star as has been recorded in the case of one or two objects of the same class. The legend, whether well founded or not, seems to have some astronomical verisimilitude, and at any rate suggests a mode in which an actual star could have seemed to stand over the place where the young Child lay. It would also explain what seems to have been implied in the narrative, how it happened that the Magi alone, and not the Jews in general, perceived the star at its second appearance.

9. Lesson of the Narrative:

Yet it seems safer to conclude that the narrative has been purposely left-astronomically-too incomplete for any astronomical conclusion to be drawn from it. One verse more, and that a short one, could have answered all our inquiries, could have told us whether the star was a conjunction of the planets, a comet, or a temporary star; or whether it was a supernatural light like the pillar of fire in the wilderness. But that verse has not been given. The score of additional words which could have cleared up the matter have been withheld, and there can be no doubt as to the reason. The star, whatever its physical nature, was of no importance except as a guide to the birthplace of the infant Jesus. The reticence of the gospel narrative on all points, except those directly relating to our Lord Himself, enforces the truth that the Scriptures were not written to instruct us in astronomy, or in any of the physical sciences, but that we might have life eternal (John 17:3). E. W. Maunder

Could Jes-sus (Christ) really walk on water (like a hippy surfer), or is it just another urban myth? (like Marianne Faithful and a Mars Bar at the Rolling Stones party)

TwiddledeedDUMB writes
“These are the undiluted, historical FACTS* though right-wing, conservative, evangelical christians choose to follow PAGAN* customs, pagan idolatry and the worship of the created thing more than the CREATOR…
In the process, they will deride and castigate anyone who seeks to abnegate their traditions…”

Instead of spouting a load of rubbish to show that he knows so much, why does TwiddledeedDUMB not teach what is the true meaning of Christ”s coming?
I no longer celebrate Christmas as I did as a child. Since I was age 17 and was leading my first church choir, I eliminated from my programs any so called Christmas song whose lyrics could not be supported by scripture. But instead of bashing others I am positive in teaching the truths that I know.

Since age 17 in my choir selections I have I have avoided songs that over sentimentalize the season such as songs that focus on the “most wonderful time of the year.” Are we in love with the season or with Christ?
I have avoided songs that are strictly secular in their association. Some churches choose to do several of these type songs at the beginning of their musicals at Christmas to either “entertain” or “attract non-believers.” I believe these type songs have no place in a worship service especially when it is intended to be evangelistic. What’s evangelistic about singing secular songs? I think sometimes we can be so entertainment focused that we are in danger of entertaining them to hell. I believe that we should point people to Christ.
I believe that we should choose songs that correctly describe the Christmas story according to Scripture. Many of our songs really do not portray the story very well. I look for songs that are clear in communicating the story
I choose songs that tell the whole Gospel Story- Jesus birth, his ministry, his death on a cross and his resurrection. The problem with many Christmas songs is that they leave Jesus in the manger. Christians and non-Christians need to hear the whole Gospel at Christmas. We must look for songs that go beyond the manger. He came to be our Savior.

I am quite aware that people are so distracted by the trappings of the holiday season that they are not spiritually focused and not moving forward in their Christian walk.

I am quite aware that much of the Christmas music used in worship only led to sentimental reflections of Christmas seasons gone by with little real focus on Christ.

I am quite aware that much of what happens at Christmas often has little to do with the real reason for the celebration – Jesus, but instead of writing concentrated crap with a long winded convoluted title, I try to present the Scripture passages that deal with the subject of what is celebrated annually as Christmas.

But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba, Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir to God. Galatians 4:4-7 (ESV)