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Submitted by Yardbroom

 

German Chancellor Angela Merkel

Angela Merkel the German Chancellor recently said: ” Multiculturalism has “failed utterly” in Germany, she further elaborated. . . ” we kidded ourselves for a while that they – immigrants – wouldn’t stay, but that’s not the reality”.  If Angela Merkel’s views are in tune with her electorate’s, it demonstrates that it was never Germany’s intention for immigrants to take up permanent residence in their country.

A case is often made of the economic benefits immigrants bring to their host country; but economic integration of immigrants does not nullify the separate requirement, inherent in some immigrant’s religion, which appears if only on the surface, to them not fully participating in activities or practices, which have made the host country economically successful.

In Europe attitudes have hardened in recent years towards immigrants, this has been caused by the perception, that some of the Muslim faith, have not as vociferously as thought prudent distanced themselves from terrorist sympathies.  It is so obvious that “all Muslims” are not sympathetic to terrorists that it is not worth saying.  However, in the early years of terrorist activity in Europe “some” Muslims sought to justify such activity by the West’s involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan and their failure to solve the Palestinian problem, by putting economic pressure on Israel.

It is difficult for the inhabitants of countries like the UK, to understand how groups of young Muslims, born in the UK, could openly state that their sons/daughters serving in places like Iraq and Afghanistan deserve to be killed.  This is challenging for UK residents to accept, particularly when the young Muslims live in the same town and may even be their neighbours.

The young Muslims justification – sincerely held no doubt – that those UK soldiers should not be in Muslim lands.  This political dimension brought to the debate by young Muslims emphasizes the differences between cultures, and the part religion plays in particular societies.

At the root of Europe’s hostility, is the link between religion and society much evident in Muslim countries, as it bears no relation to some would say, the casual approach taken in Europe.  Can this dichotomy ever be bridged?  Measures that were thought unimaginable in Europe only ten years ago are now being promoted with vigour.

“French President Nicolas Sarkozy has spoken out strongly against the wearing of the burka by Muslim women in France.  In a major policy speech, he said the burka – a garment covering women from head to toe – reduced them to servitude and undermined their dignity.  He added. . . “we cannot accept to have in our country women who are prisoners behind netting, cut off from social life deprived of identity”.
In 2004, France banned Islamic headscarves in its State schools.

The Times of India quoted a Muslim woman living in France: “They say I’m too attached to my religion, Silmi told at an empty restaurant near her home southwest of Paris, her large eyes peering from a slit in her veil.  Lots of Christians live in Morocco and we don’t make them wear scarves.”  However, France’s main Muslim leaders have declared that Islam does not require women to cover their faces with niqabs or burkas.”Europe’s growing Muslim population has bred tension across the continent.  Wariness is pervasive since deadly attacks in Madrid 2004 and in London 2005 by Islamic radicals living in Europe.  And some non-Muslims sense a  threat by a foreign culture to their way of life.  It took only four minarets on Switzerland’s 200 mosques to push the Swiss to vote “no” to minarets in a November referendum”

As if to emphasize the tide sweeping Europe “far right Dutch MP Geert Wilders has extracted a pledge from the largest party in the Netherland’s probable next government to outlaw the burka and halve immigration.”  If the burka ban is agreed, the Netherlands will become the second country after France to ban the all-enveloping Muslim veil.  Belgium MP’s have also voted to outlaw full face veils, although the measure is yet to be passed by the country’s upper house”.

The questions must be posed, how much, if any at all, must an immigrant jettison of his/her culture to intergrade fully into the culture of his host country?  Is it absolutely necessary to do so?  If he/she does not, does their presence in sizeable numbers dilute the shared values that has made his host country the cohesive prosperous society to which he/she was attracted.  Does his/her economic contribution override any perceived or actual detriment to his host country.

Countries even moderately successful ones have had mass immigration; it should be the will of the host country to accommodate with understanding and reason what the immigrant has to offer, but the immigrant must also understand he/she cannot transport their countries mores values and culture wholesale into another country.

If they are so attached to them and cannot live without them, would it not be best for them to stay and reside in their native country where they can?

With acknowledgements to:

The First Post
BBC News
The Times of India

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24 responses to “Multiculturalism: Maelstrom And A Collision Of Cultures Or A Possible Cohesion Of Separate Ethnic Identities”


  1. Interesting submission Yardbroom.

    There was a time when ethnic groups would protect their culture while being respectful of the host country. Nowadays this is not the case. Yes under the constitutions of the EU countries the ethnic groups have the right to freedom of expression but where will it lead?


  2. After a string of articles that I have posted on BU in the last few months on the circumventing issues of Islamification/Islamaphobia and the backlash surrounding these moves within Anglophile countries – there’s really nothing new here…

    What the DECONSTRUCTIONISTS* are having problem with (and I take the German Chancellor’s wording on the issue of “MULTICULTURALISM” as farcical) – because what is at stake is how best to resolve the emergent phenomenon of entrenched Muslim growth and their control of white wealth and their societal status within these countries…

    What I find laughable is the whole idea of multiculturalism as a Nazi-Germanic epistemological phenomenon or narrative given that the (SAID*) concept emerged out of the 1970’s struggle in Britain as a mean of enculturating immigrants into mainstream British society when clearly there was a movement that did not want this to happen…


  3. We have conflicting positions here. We have G8 countries of the EU built on the backs of immigrant labour. We have G8 countries whose constitutions allow people to practice their religions on the back of freedom of expression. What do we have here?

    Do we have an emerging conservative right wing ground swell which is stoking this matter?

    Is this nothing more than jingoism or a real case of countries redefining who they want to be?


  4. Renowned former professor and mentor of mine Anthony Giddens responsible for Tony Blair’s “3rd Way” ask whether – “Has ‘multiculturalism’ become a dirty word?”

    Giddens suggest that “many commentators have turned against the idea of multiculturalism. Fearful of militant Islam and rising immigration, they argue that multiculturalism risks tearing society apart, and undermining the way of life for the predominantly white majority.”

    “In the UK, it has almost become a festive tradition for tabloid newspapers to report that in the name of multiculturalism local councils have attempted to ‘ban’ Christmas, for example by forbidding school children to put on nativity plays or send each other Christmas cards. Perhaps you heard similar stories this Christmas? Whether or not these reports are accurate, they reflect a general feeling that multiculturalism has gone too far, and needs to be reigned in.”

    “Multiculturalism’s supporters argue that multiculturalism still has a lot to offer. They say that multiculturalism is usually poorly understood. As they see it, multiculturalism holds that different ethnic groups should exist separately but equally, and still participate in wider society. In other words, it is a way of holding society together, not tearing it apart.”

    Giddens looks at some of the controversies, explains why he’s in favour of multiculturalism, and describes what he thinks it can offer society.

    What does multiculturalism mean in today’s society?

    For Giddens, “the meaning of multiculturalism has actually become very confused. For example, people often confuse multiculturalism with cultural diversity – they talk about living in a multicultural society when really all they mean is that society is made up of people from many different ethnic backgrounds. Other people think that multiculturalism is about separatism, or cultural relativism. But this is a very naïve way of thinking of multiculturalism.”

    “According to this naïve view, we simply need to accept that there are many different cultures across the world, and within our society, and that none can have primacy over others. This implies leaving all groups to follow whatever norms they like, regardless of the consequences for wider society. ”

    “I have a different view of multiculturalism. I call this sophisticated multiculturalism. This perspective emphasizes the importance of national identity, and national laws, but also the fostering of connections between different social and ethnic groups. This form of multiculturalism is all about social solidarity – not separateness as some people claim. It’s actually when the members of minority groups are treated as alien or different that problems tend to start.”

    “In this form of multiculturalism, different groups have equality of status – we should value diversity and openly respect and interact with other cultures. But equality of status shouldn’t mean that we accept uncritically other groups’ practices.”

    “The philosopher Charles Taylor has written about the need for all people in society to have equal rights and respect, but if they have equal rights they also have responsibilities, and a fundamental responsibility is to obey the laws of the land. Thus having several wives, or practising female circumcision, or carrying out honour killings, are acceptable in some Muslim countries, but are illegal in the UK.”

    “Sometimes the issues aren’t as clear cut as this, as they aren’t dealt with fully in law, and so we need to work them out on a case-by-case basis. For example, is it appropriate for women to be completely veiled so that their faces are covered in the classroom? My own view is ‘no’, but we should work out the answers to these challenges through an open debate with different cultural groups – fostering this dialogue is itself an important part of multiculturalism.”

    When asked -why he thinks some people have turned against multiculturalism?

    “We live in a world criss-crossed with intense anxieties. In recent years these have been exacerbated by fears about terrorism, and the future of global security. Multiculturalism is an easy target for people to project these anxieties onto. In part, that’s because it comprises quite a complex set of ideals which are often misunderstood, but also because it aims to bring us closer together with the kind of people we’ve become afraid of. Fears about multiculturalism also tend to centre on race – it’s black or Asian groups that people tend to worry about. In this sense, I think the debates echo fears that have long been expressed about protecting racial identity.”

    “But when people talk about abandoning multiculturalism they almost always mean the naïve form which I just talked about. They want to abandon separatism and naïve cultural relativism, and I think they’re right in wanting to do that. We have to be realistic about the kind of society we now live in, and the future we need to build together.”

    “All societies now include greater cultural diversity. If you think of the 52 people who were killed in the bombings in London in 2005, they included five Muslims from countries as diverse as Tunisia, Afghanistan and Bangladesh, as well as people from Romania, Poland, Italy, Nigeria, Israel, New Zealand, Vietnam, and many, many other countries. London is one of the most diverse cities in the world, but other European countries have similarly mixed populations.”

    “We have to find a way of living together. The point of multiculturalism is to find a balance between obligations that are universal and sensitivities to the values of different groups. Sometimes I think people shy away from multiculturalism as they aren’t prepared to take on this challenge. They want a seemingly quicker or easier solution.

    QUESTION: Is multiculturalism compatible with Britishness?

    “As I’ve just been saying, the sophisticated form of multiculturalism is the opposite of encouraging separate communities or social divisions. It’s all about encouraging communication between groups, and creating a sense of social togetherness, and not leaving people alone to do whatever they like. Promoting a sense of national identity is compatible with this because it promotes integration into wider society. In fact, about 80% of ethnic minorities are happy to call themselves ‘British’ – far fewer consider themselves to be English or Scottish, or just Bangladeshi, or whatever. There’s no contradiction between multiculturalism and Britishness.”

    “Of course, other social policies are important here, such as welfare policies to help the poor, and to help children get on at school. The welfare state is also an important part of promoting a sense of social belonging, and social equality. But encouraging multiculturalism should make our national identity stronger. It should be a central plank of government.”

    SO THE ISSUE MOVES BEYOND THE SOCIOLOGICAL DEBATE OF MULTICULTURE* TO A MORE CONSTRUCTIONISTS VIEW OF HOW TO DEAL WITH THE NEW THREAT OF ISLAMIFICATION* IN AN ERA OF DRAMATIC POLITICAL & SOCIAL CHANGE….


  5. DAVID @ BU

    The philosophical idea of “multiculturalism” (permit me to use the word ‘loosely’) is really out-dated, out-moded and bears no real academic or philological relevance to contemporary European or American society in the 21st century…

    So Merkel et al happen to be still STUCK* in this mindset of “MODERNITY” which has long passed as we approached the era of “POSTMODERNITY” since a few decades ago… (sadly our leaders are NOT* very progressive but are rather stuck in the mud)…

    I can cite you paragraphs of sociological evidence both empirically and epistemologically that supports these assertions…

    If this thread still has traction after the SABBATH* I will cite Stuart Hall (1991); Solomos (1993); Lash & Urry (1994) and other prominent contemporary (like my mentor GIDDENS*) social theorists & sociologists who argued that “MULTICULTURALISM” was an emergent phenomenon based on “Globalization & The Emerging Nation State” – as an answer to the ground-swell of immigrants moving into 1st world countries as economic migrants and fortune-hunters…

    More on all that later…

    Have a blessed weekend!!!


  6. Quote: “I have a different view of multiculturalism. I call this sophisticated multiculturalism. This perspective emphasizes the importance of nationality identity, and national laws, but also the fostering of connections between different social and ethnic groups”.

    As someone who has spent a number of years in both Germany and the UK during the early 1960s, and experienced the change over time in Europe. It is sometimes difficult to see how “social connections between different social and ethnic groups” can be fostered, by the activities of some young Muslim groups.

    When placards are brandished in the UK, advocating the killing of serving British soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan and innocent people – including Muslims – are slaughtered in public places. It is extremely difficult for the ordinary person not to feel there is a dis-connect between them and Muslims, since the activities are deemed to be in the name of a specific religion…Islam.

    A “sophisticated” view of multiculturalism perhaps is desirable but to the people of Bradford, Southall, Birmingham and such places; they just wish to live in peace with their neighbours and to retire home safely, after the passing of each day. They perhaps think it is best to enjoy “solidarity” when they are alive.

    There are always many sociological perspectives, some worthy of great debate, but outside the world of academia in the alleys, streets, and by-ways; people simply want to be at peace with their neighbours and those who occupy the same space and think little of those who seek to obstruct such activity.


  7. Who says what don’t work
    Who don’t like reggae?
    What typical nasty nazi


  8. I am afraid that the multuculturalism means different things to different people. Many of those pushing it as a social holy grail see it simply as an embracing and assimilation of all cultures on an individual level, rather than a reflection of a gorgeous societal mosaic. For others, the arguments take the form of an impulsive demand that “new people” jettison their past and become clones of the majority. This latter perspective, I believe, is the foundation upon which Merkel’s views are formed.

    This has always been the slant right wingers in the US has brought to the discussion of African American assimilation in the US. That they should forget slavery, forget Jim Crow and just become clones of Euro America. When we examine the image black artistes haqd to cultivate, slicked hair styled in Euro fashion, in order to be acceptable to a white audience, the above becomes obvious.

    Where I tend to leave the general trend of thought is in not being politically correct in identifying the hypocrisy inherrent in the positions of Mislim immigrants. Many of them hail from nations originally inhabited by indigenous Africans, and exhibited no discomfort with the fact that those Africans do not enjoy even a semblance of the recognition and and quality of acceptance they are demanding for themselves in Europe. In a sense, it is akin to Indians protesting racism in Australia why calling hurling racist epitaphs at black cricketers and cheer leaders. They only recognize that it is wrong when they become the victim.


  9. Hi Ruel Daniel
    May I quote you: “I am afraid that the multiculturalism means different things to different people. Many of those pushing it as a social holy grail see it simply as an embracing and assimilation of all cultures on an individual level, rather than a reflection of gorgeous societal mosaic. For others, the arguments take the form of an impulsive demand that “new people” jettison their past and become clones of the majority. This latter perspective, I believe, is the foundation upon which merkel’s views are formed”.

    I recall on many occasions seeing burka clad women in Oxford street London and other cities shopping in the 1960s. They were not even given a second glance. Now identified Muslims are viewed with suspicion.

    Angela Merkel, Nicolas Sarkosy and other European leaders, have had to react to emergent right wing politicians like Geert Wilders of the Netherlands, who have taken it upon themselves to lay siege to Muslims. Unless Merkel, Sarkosy and others voice the serious concerns of their electorate, they will be voted out of Government and the right wingers will take over. Then there will be no “sophisticated” talk of accommodating multiculturalism, that is the reality.

    I have no religious perspective on the matter, I see the situation as a cause and effect problem.


  10. ref. comment Yardbroom
    I recall on many occasions seeing berka clad women in Oxford Street London and other cities shopping in the 1960’s . They were not even given a second glance. Now Muslims are viewed with suspicion

    Question: what does yardbroom think caused the 90degree change of attitude towards the muslim world !

    As for NPR firing of Juan williams. Npr is a government funded radio station . It also depends on public funding and money has no color when bills need to be paid . OUT with Juan Williams . Better yet in with the Muslim extremist $$$$$$$$$$


  11. ☀ What Does It Take ☀ Hear River Jordan ☀ Going To Zion..
    Immigrants have been settled in Europe for well over 50 years and were originally brought in for cheap labour .. many foreigners also have legitimate links due to colonial legacies. It’s wrong to view dark skinned children born and bred in countries as immigrants and white foreigners from any other country as the same.

    ..Don’t call us immigrants


  12. Hi ac
    My comment: “I recall on many occasions seeing burka clad women in Oxford Street London and other cities shopping in the 1960s. They were not even given a second glance. Now Muslims are viewed with suspicion.”

    You asked: ” What does Yardbroom think caused the 90 degree change in attitude towards the Muslim world.”

    Let us take a simple example. Suppose Barbadian soldiers had gone off to a far off land to fight in a war – I will leave the merits alone for now.

    The death toll was high, planes were constantly bringing dead soldiers home, mothers were crying for their sons and daughters, from St Lucy to Christ Church, St Philip to St Michael. Bombs were exploding in Broad Street, many casualties, the Zr’s were taking a hit, explosions on them, Grantley Adams Airport was not safe, armed Police with machine guns stood at the ready.

    Then a group of immigrants, recently arrived in Barbados, in the name of a religion of which they are adherents and deemed responsible for the mayhem, decided it a good idea to walk down Broad Street with placards saying: kill the bajan soldiers! behead them! show no mercy! send them back to Barbados in body bags!

    Then be expected to safely return home to Brittons Hill, Carringtons Village and other places as if nothing has happened..what do you think?


  13. Bonny hurting real badddddddddd. Couldn’t sleep.

    My PM is goneeeeeeee.

    Lord have mercyyyyyyyy.

    I’m hurtinggggggggg so bad.


  14. @Yardbroom
    I have read your comments will response at a later time.


  15. I am on board with the view expressed by Ruiel Daniels. Multiculturalism ever since the 90s have become the magnus opus treatise of far left liberal academic and politician alike. Their main hypothesis is that multiculturalism is not only a new buzzword but rather the realities of one the consequences of the new economic world order and should be embraced with vigor.On the other hand those on the conservative right with all their rant against about multiculturalism and the need for cultural homogenity – sings a different tune when they are the beneficiary of cheap labour. Multiculturalsim brings diversity but it does not necessarily equates to assimilation. Some of the greatest cities around the world that extol the hackneyed phrase” true melting pot” – is nothing but a hollow apocryphal statement.

    My personal view is that if you leave your country and go and live in another person’s country you cannot want to dictate or claim national relevance for your culture. The bear minimum is to give Cesar what is due to Cesar.

    Some of these same groups that boldly claimed discrimination or other unconstituitonal grievances just look at how they treat black people in their society. Black people are invisible and treated as scum in the whole of Latin America and the same goes for Arab societies. How I see it you have three choices: Either you assimilate and become a full membe; practice your culture in the privacy of your home or your community but respect your adopted country culture or find yuh yard.


  16. @Yardbroom
    I am trying to make sense of your story and how it fits into the fact the differing views and negative opinions of Muslims extremist
    escalated after they blew up The World Trade Centre!. BTW I do get your point but I am not buying it!


  17. Hi ac
    I will never argue about “religion,”I believe in trying to do good to my fellow man, and making an effort to achieve honesty and integrity in everything I do, through words and actions.

    As you suggested it is true quote: “differing views and negative opinions of Muslim extremists escalated after they blew up the World Trade Centre”.

    In Europe, Europeans cannot understand how Muslim fundamentalists, “some” born in Europe, can seek to destroy the country in which they live, and others try to bomb the same countries to which their parents by free choice, sought to make their home.

    They see people walking the streets of Europe; unable to properly interact with the inhabitants, as they cloak and shelter themselves behind inpenetratable partitions in the street. It is to this behaviour which Angela Merkel referred.

    I must reiterate, I seek to make no religious point whatsoever.


  18. What about when Bajans objected to Hindu rituals in a multi-religious service for Independence almost 7 years ago, the move was spearheaded by the People’s Cathedral and (IMHO) tacitly supported by allegedly enlightened Reverend Gerry Seale… http://bit.ly/9HJIob

    This rant comes from late 2003, when there was due to have been a devotional service with many denominations celebrating Bim’s birthday, but the People’s Cathedral pettily pulled out as there were other religions involved, I was disappointed that an allegedly enlightened evangelist abstained from commenting, so I sent this to the newspapers and it never saw light of day – yet I find it still relevant even these days…

    Barbados’ multi-culturalism is nowhere near as pervasive as the Islamification that Holland and France and the rest of Europe are wailing about…

    There are a few minarets up in Fontabelle, I have a Dr whose services are nil on Friday’s, many other Bajans like to go to him as he gives fair advice and does not charge excessive rates and usually if his advice is followed then you can come out alive…

    Diwali in Barbados is a growing phenomena but there is no element of fear, if anything, I think Bajans like the coloured powders and almost bacchanalia which are concomitant with the Hindu event. I see even Bump&Wine Cafe is looking to cash in on the festival?

    I think each territory needs to treat their Faith&Culture situation on a case by case basis.


  19. Hi Ian
    The problem with multiculturalism is that it needs a genuine understanding of cultures for it to work; a culture cannot expect “total” separateness under a multicultural umbrella. It has to be about sharing and understanding the mores and values of the host country, it matters not in Barbados or Europe.

    It is not about a parallel world, you cannot transport one country’s mores and values into another; without in some way diluting what is already there, “often” to the disadvantage of the native population’s cultural norms built over centuries.

    It is not about jettisoning a cultural identity. For any society to work effectively, there must be an element of giving by individuals.

    The idea of always wanting from and never giving to society, in terms of a shared identity, is not a recipe for success in a multicultural society.


  20. Year ago while living in Trinidad (early 60’s) we celebrated Diwali with the Hindus, Hussein with the Muslims and Christmas with the Christians. Many Hindus and Muslims would celebrate Christmas with Christians. It was a time that no one felt that their God was better and more powerful. I had friends from all races and the most racist were the half baked feel dem whites. Moving to Barbados we found very little multiculturalism. The races lived separate lives and did not mix socially. We lived in the Garrison where many expat families lived as well as Barbadians many of whom were lawyers and doctors. I remember we lived next door to the Chief Justice at the time . I remembered his Irish wife walking down the driveway looking to see who lived next door to her. When she saw our black faces she quickly left and never spoke to us in the 20+ years we lived there. Some of the children would say hi but was never part of our community. Little has changed over the years.


  21. Yeah, don’t support multi-cultularism you Bajan bigots. When Bajans go to Toronto and New York to live like rats they like to rock back to the kaiso and talk ‘Bajan’. Perhaps they should get their rass sent back home for that too.


  22. it is a fact.whites,blacks,Arabs,Chinese,Japanese,Mongolian,native Indians,east Indians.
    will never inter mix.in some of those mentioned it is not allowed.!
    multicultural world.
    ever heard about TOWER OF BABEL .no race wants to be eliminated there fore it can not happen.unrealistic dream.she is perfectly correct.
    besides when we mix some of these races we get ugly as hell freaky looking people.mongoloids.
    http://youtu.be/FZDfzArL42I

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