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Submitted (as a comment) by Amused

…our laws are based on the presumption of innocence unless guilt is proved. Guilt can only be proved upon both sides of the matter being heard and considered or upon a preponderance of proof being provided. That proof requires far more support than simply “I told you so”.

If you name a lawyer or any other professional, it has to be assumed, since it can never be proved (as to extent) that you have caused them damage. In any case, the type of definition covering the naming of a lawyer in something published is “libel” and libel is always actionable without proof of damage.

Then you get to the economic facts. For a lawyer to sue you costs them, usually, only filing fees and other disbursements. For you, it costs those disbursements plus legal fees. Also, as the matter has to go through a judicial or quasi-judicial process, the lawyer knows all the rules of procedure required by the court. On the other hand, if you act for yourself (as is your right) you don’t and you will make mistakes on simple matters of filing alone. The court has to take the view that, as these rules are codified, you are presumed to have read and to know them; including the lawyers’ scale of allowable fees. So the court is only really allowed to cut you a very limited amount of slack. Then, if you lose, you have to pay costs (yours and your opponents – which is only fair if you have launched a case and expensed them without legal grounds – or Heaven forbid, without any grounds at all, which can happen). You almost certainly will have to pay damages estimated on the losses your opponent has sustained.

So, it is not something to be lightly undertaken cost-wise. As I have said, there are some counsel who, disgusted with the way in which some attorneys practice law, will take these matters on as a service to their profession in general, if not necessarily for the complainant. However, you have to convince them that you have a viable case before they are prepared to risk their input, both financial and in terms of time, taking them on and, in effect (not that these Carriers of the Flame, as I call them, give a damn) risking the possible lack of cooperation from their fellow members of the legal profession that might arise. That lack of cooperation, if it occurs, would have a very detrimental effect on their ability to properly service their other clients. It takes a brave lawyer and a strong case.

The answer? Is there one? Yes! And it too is breathtaking in its simplicity.

The legal profession must start to EFFECTIVELY police its own. At the moment, while the mechanics of policing exists, it is a joke and never exercised. All that needs to be done is the establishment of a sort of ombudsman within the Bar Association the loyalty of which is to the consumer and not to the lawyers. And, of course, a court of appeal that is prepared to kick said ombudsman in the ass if it fails to do its job. Maybe the answer is for Government to establish a separate and distinct authority to deal with these complaints.

Sorry, David, the solutions are simple indeed, but so hard to achieve. But, you have made a start by putting the issue firmly in the public forum. Please do not let it fall from view – keep hammering it.


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45 responses to “Can Barbadians Name And Shame Lawyers?”


  1. There is always conlict of interest in oragnisation that police themselves. To solve this problem you need an independent body of outside of the bar to play this role. The incestous relationship between the bar and its member is just a simple no no to bring some semblance of rugulation to the legal profession.


  2. Amused cannot be serious!
    The ‘simple solution’ is for lawyers to police themselves??!!
    Is this Amused idea of a joke?
    Bush Tea is not amused.

    Why don’t we arrange for the ZR men to police themselves? indeed, while we are at it, how about reducing the wardens at Dodds …. surely we can get the prisoners to police themselves in that high tech facility.

    Amused……
    Not even the church have been able to police themselves effectively – so your call sounds to the bushman like the desperate attempt of a lawyer to side track the momentum on BU to deal with this problem.

    …so here is Bush Tea’s “easy” solution;

    SHAME THEM.

    …..but not by name, we can use the ‘Pudding ‘n souse approach’ that is employed so well by the Saturday Sun to explain the particulars……

    I suspect that a Blog called “Pudding ‘N Souse – The Lawyers” would be a very popular one….

    …..all that we would need is a good legal moderator to assist David……any takers?


  3. BU is game.

    Can we have a volunteer?

  4. Bring the evidence Avatar
    Bring the evidence

    I nominating Adrian Hinds as the “Pudding ‘N Souse – The Lawyers” writer for BU.


  5. @David. Very glad to see that you took up the challenge, although not quite in the way I expected. Happy just the same.

    @Bush Tea. You are wrong, sir. Let me show you why. In detail. So yes, the reply is LONG, for which I make no apologies.

    The Law Society of England and Wales is the model of self-regulation. It stands no nonsense from its members. So, if you are looking for a model of self-regulation, look within the international profession for which the policing is required, and not pick on the usual target, the Catholic Church. Any idiot can try to prove their point by doing that. Members of the Barbados Bar are not molesting choir boys (we hope) nor are they necessarily committing the acts that their clients (surprised that after many years of education and law school, lawyers feel they have a right to be expensive and disbelieving that as they have (they are convinced) a cause of action, they ought to be charged anything at all) allege. If you stick within the legal profession (as you must, Bush Tea)) everyone will point you to the Law Society of England and Wales. And there lies the argument that Barbados should emulate this model. HOWEVER!!!!!

    However, you happen to be correct on one point – and so do I – that in Barbados you cannot and will not be able to follow the lead of the Law Society of England and Wales. It will CERTAINLY take an independent authority.

    It is not out of order at all to have an independent authority, nor is the Barbados Bar in any position to object, if such is the will of the people. The Barbados Bar itself is statutory as is its membership. That is why there was such a big issue when an effort was made to force lawyers to pay VAT on their membership fees. So, if, as I hope, BU manages to make a big enough issue of this crying need for proper policing of lawyers, by whatever means, then we, the people, are in a position to suggest to our MPs (most of whom are lawyers) that they had better get their pacifiers out of their mouths and do something about it.

    As we discuss this issue, however, we need also to look at the appointment of a new head of the judiciary. The matter is now critical as it appears that Chief Justice Frederick Waterman does not seem to want the post and is taking pre-retirement leave even as I write. And frankly, My Lord, if you don’t want the position of Chief Justice, I don’t blame you at all.

    We, however, as a nation, need to discuss this. We, as a nation, do not want a repeat of the political nonsense we have just emerged from.

    The courts are in a mess. Many of the judges should volunteer to retire/resign, because they are not up to the job or have baggage that makes them ineligible. The Registry – well, where do we start on that!!!??? Complete mess and yet the Registrar (in faithful imitation of her predecessor who ended up on the Court of Appeal bench) seems to consider that her lamentable performance as Registrar merits her appointment as Chief Justice.

    I, however, have looked outside the usual box and the usual demand that the CJ be Bajan. It comes at too critical a time for us to demand that the usual national nepotism be exercised. We simply need the best person for the job irrespective of race, colour, creed and nationality – and that person does not exist in Barbados or from Barbados’ ex patriots. To undertake the massive job that needs to be done, we have to look outside of Barbados.

    So, what do we need? We need:

    • A legal scholar.
    • A first rate administrator.
    • A person without fear who will stand up to anything and any person.
    • A person with WIDE INTERNATIONAL legal experience and practice.
    • As we are taking many of our laws from Canadian models, a person with Canadian experience is an advantage, but not a vital necessity.
    • A person with extensive experience of financial regulatory bodies, such as Security Exchange.
    • A person with wide experience of Internet law – this changes daily and we have to have someone who can lead us through it.

    Prime Minister David Thompson is playing his cards very close to his chest on the CJ appointment. I suspect that he is in a terrible quandary as, politically, there will be repercussions if he does not appoint a Bajan, while, as himself a very committed lawyer (a Carrier of the Flame) he realizes that there is no one in Barbados, or Bajan, capable of doing the job. And that is where we can maybe help him to select the right person for the job. By assuring him that we want what he wants. The best, and this does not necessarily mean Bajan.

    Please join me in giving the Prime Minister support to look outside of Barbados. Remember this whole issue has been raised this time round by a lady who went to a lawyer whom she had known all her life – and was disappointed and, frankly, is extremely unilkely to get any redress for her comlaint, even if it is justifiable. Let us not put ourselves in the position of also being disappointed in our CJ due to our own insistence on similar, misplaced (in this case) loyalties and prejudices.

    Finally, if you are going to sort out the legal profession, you need to start right at the very top – with the head of the profession – with the Chief Justice. Unless you start there, anything other you do will be ineffective and a complete waste of money.


  6. When you attempt to name and shame lawyers they pursue intimidation tactics to threaten and sue you and accrue disproportionate and extortionate costs to bankrupt you.

    Regulators are glorified legal trade unions made up of practicing lawyer members covering their own arse (plural arses) and Courts are negligent when taking action against Officers of Court (lawyers, barristers, legal firms and even Judges).

    If you submit a formal complaint, in theory it has to be read and looked into.
    If it is ignored and automatically closed you must pursue it further.
    Regulators will use every trick in the book to avoid investigation or action against members unless they are shamed into it.


  7. My easy solution is to get rid of lawyers and legal firms in the outdated Court System.

    Completely Strip the system to rebuild and streamline the whole legal process to make it accessible to every body in the modern age.

    Unacceptable legal professionals should be named and shamed for bringing their profession into disrepute out of sheer greed and manipulative behaviour and abusing their industries code of conduct. Names of the guilty should be published whenever illegal and immoral actions kill the legal industry and gravy train for their colleagues.


  8. kiki // May 3, 2010 at 3:57 AM and kiki // May 3, 2010 at 4:09 AM. Always a pleasure, Kiki, even when I think you are talking bare ****. Direct and refreshing. HOWEVER:

    “When you attempt to name and shame lawyers they pursue intimidation tactics to threaten and sue you and accrue disproportionate and extortionate costs to bankrupt you.” So, it is okay for you to cause them damage, even if you are wrong, but not for them to retaliate? In other words, access to the law is there for you, but not for the lawyers? In other words, you are a human being and a citizen, regardless of race, colour and creed, but you have created a new sub-category for lawyers? Well, good luck to you, but you libel me and I will sue your patootey into the next century. And that is certainty, not a threat.

    “Regulators are glorified legal trade unions made up of practicing lawyer members covering their own arse (plural arses) and Courts are negligent when taking action against Officers of Court (lawyers, barristers, legal firms and even Judges).” Agreed. Surprised? Why? You are correct. 100% correct. But please try to use the phrase “caveat rumpus”. It is more sarcastic than “covering one’s arse” whether singular or plural – very coarse. By the way, the plural, as I am sure you know, is “caveat rumpi”.

    “If you submit a formal complaint, in theory it has to be read and looked into.” Correct. In Barbados what should be FACT is THEORY ONLY!!!! SHAMEFULLY!!!

    “If it is ignored and automatically closed you must pursue it further.” Well, yes. But I would suggest that you make sure you are right first – but, hey, that is your call – it is a free country.

    “Regulators will use every trick in the book to avoid investigation or action against members unless they are shamed into it.” CORRECT!!!! SADLY AND SHAMEFULLY!!!!! 1000% correct!

    “My easy solution is to get rid of lawyers and legal firms in the outdated Court System.” Testicles. And you know it.

    “Completely Strip the system to rebuild and streamline the whole legal process to make it accessible to every body in the modern age.” What legal system? You mean the one you have just done away with? But, CORRECT in certain aspects. Yes, it does need to be streamlined and for that you require a top rate CJ. Yes, it does need to be MUCH more accessible. so can BU (and myself as I completely agree with BU) depend on your support in the campaign to get basic law taught in schools? Can we discuss that again? LOUDLY AND CLEARLY!!!!!!

    “Unacceptable legal professionals should be named and shamed for bringing their profession into disrepute out of sheer greed and manipulative behaviour and abusing their industries code of conduct. Names of the guilty should be published whenever illegal and immoral actions kill the legal industry and gravy train for their colleagues.” And just who decides how and who has brought the profession into disrepute? Is this an “I say so therefore it is” case? “I say that Kiki has brought his/her profession into disrepute and is a crook and therefore it is so”. Would you be happy with that? Or would you exercise your legal right and sue my arse? The latter I hope. AND just who decides who is guilty? You…..anybody with a computer and internet access? FINALLY, as you have already killed the legal profession…….HMMMM. I am starting to sound like the poor man’s Chris Halsall.


  9. (True Stories)
    KPMX* charged £100,000 legal costs (it’s a long story)
    I raised a ‘303 Fraud case’ (or the Judge did on my behalf)
    KPMG’s lawyers Evershexs* threatened to make me bankrupted unless I withdrew case (which I didn’t do). Now they threaten to make me bankrupt anyway (even if I do withdraw it).

    (*)= names changed to protect the guilty
    —————————————————————————————————-
    Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)

    * Rude Boy, Bad Man Reggae Mix
    JOHNNY CLARKE – Rude Boy
    _____________________________________________________________
    p.s. I would not want to get personal with an unknown entity like ‘Amused’ but imho he/she sounds a little bit like a self-serving solicitor justifying the scamming of the public to continue filling his his/her own pocket and only pretending to be reasonable and moral.

    p.p.s. I know the difference between right and wrong.
    I know scum will defend their position with arguments such as the above from Amused. Next ‘they’ will claim they are doing a service for the poor when they really treat them like dirt.


  10. When Lawyers and ‘legal professionals’ like ‘Amused’ (allegedly) talk about the ‘rights’ of the public you will note they are hypocritically talking about the ‘denial of the rights’ of the public and the protection of fraudulent lawyers and legal professional scum. (Who should be named and shamed when proven guilty by due process and investigation of their own records).
    _______________________________________________________________
    Search Results for “right”

    Johnny Clarke – Everyday You’re Wondering


  11. Oh please. A man (or woman) goes to school for many years. By dint of hard work he manages to get a BA or some such (add another 2 or 3 years). Then he goes to law school (add another 2 or 3 years) and gets an LLB. He then has to serve an apprenticeship during which time he is apprenticed to a firm a lawyers that pays him squat for his work. Finally, at about age 30, he is called to the bar and allowed to practice the profession of law – but first, he has to find a law firm to hire him (for a pittance) and to build up a clients list. Add another 3 or 4 years.

    Finally, that man is able to EITHER start a family OR to give his family all the things they were denied during his long years of study. Little things like proper insurance and medical cover, dentistry etc. he even stands the prospect of being able to put something aside for his old age – always provided he gets there.

    For some reason that seems to escape whining underachievers like Kiki, this man thinks that all these years of study might, if he is good at his job, ought to provide him a living and allow him to educate his children in the best way possible. In many cases, this means without him having to resort to the types of sacrifice that his parents did. This is called “evolution” by the majority and “greed” by Kiki.

    Well, Kiki, if that is greed, then you have my number (AND the number of most people who have pushed themselves to get the best education they can, irrespective of profession). I am greedy. No matter what my profession. I am a greedy son of a bitch. Instead of insisting on these things, I should come to a lazy, underachieving person like you, fall on my knees and hand to you free of charge all the profits and advantages of my years of work.

    Well, my dear, you can shove that idea (I am sure you know which part of YOUR anatomy and I suspect you know exactly what part of my anatomy you can attach your lips to.


  12. I was wondering where Mr/Mrs Amused went off to
    I thought he/she would go crawl underneath a rock
    but no such luck. The devil exists as proven on BU
    Look Who a Bust Style – The Meditators

    p.s. I wasn’t debating anything with amused Scum
    I was stating my own view like it or lump it geezer
    Let the public be the Judge of right wrong true false
    I think you are false


  13. Scum said :
    “whining underachievers like Kiki”,
    ———————————————-
    “I’m an overachiever you scum”


  14. @Kiki and Amused

    Let us keep it real man!


  15. Mr. Lip-Service said:

    “”The Law Society of England and Wales is the model of self-regulation. It stands no nonsense from its members. So, if you are looking for a model of self-regulation, look within the international profession for which the policing is required””
    ——————————————————————————————————–
    Q/ Why do you think the (UK) Department of Constitutional Affairs was rebranded the Ministry of Justice in 2007.

    A/ It was due to the complaints and issues raised regarding conduct of legal professionals by the ripped-off members of public who had been through the shit-stem


  16. @David. Point taken. I stand by to answer only serious on topic questions and comments.

    I think it is a very good time to bring up the topic of legal education in schools once more. I believe that if children received some form of basic legal training, it would certainly reduce the demand for lawyers. It would also maybe bring greater awareness to the role lawyers actually do play in our society and do away with a lot of myths carefully fostered and created by disaffected people who have, justifiably, either been billed or who have lost cases – that is not to say that there are not any abuses and miscarriages of justice – in my view there are far too many of those. However, I fail to see the benefit of throwing the baby out with the bath water. With education, many simple cases could also be solved by parties acting for themselves as well, thus avoiding legal fees. Of course, this last is risky, but that risk would be greatly reduced.

    The aspect of education is a long-term , but effective long-term fix. In the meantime, I advocate and independent authority, rather than the self-policing by the Bar Association in force now.


  17. Anonymous is still trying to get credit for promoting other peoples complaints in order to promote his/her own career and source of bread from being taxed fairly (i.e. true costs broken down) and properly with full accountability and fair service. Like most bent solicitor and law practitioners he/she is twisting the facts to suit his/her own agenda unstead of being impartial and challenging and cleaning up his/her own profession / house.


  18. Bring the evidence // May 3, 2010 at 3:00 AM

    I nominating Adrian Hinds as the “Pudding ‘N Souse – The Lawyers” writer for BU.
    ==========================================

    look don’t make me laugh. Wunnuh Bajans feel that wunnuh so smart. The last thing I would do, is anything that a doppleganger request or volunteered me for. I might have been interested but now that a “stranger” has seen it fit to suggest me for the job, I am making it known that I am not now interested. lol!

    ——————————————————
    Is it not funny that someone would seek to defend the behaviour of Bajan Lawyers? I maintain that they have not mess with the right people. I for one would not take to kindly and for no more than 30 days, any shenanigans from any Bajan lawyer. I think there is value in teaching this lot a lesson and if I had to suffer for my ensuing unlawful action towards any of them so be it. I would be prepared to so do, as they should be for my actions.


  19. What BU is understanding Amused to say, we need to educate ourselves in basic legal matters which would equip us when interacting with lawyers to practice the concept of buyers beware. At the same time this does not give the legal profession a free pass. Self regulation is ideal one would think, a profession should have pride in its image and therefore be drive to be harder than itself than an outsider would be. It remains an ideal because despite perennial complaints especially from Barbadians returning from living overseas an want to build/invest in Barbados many have been taken to the cleaners.

    @Amused

    It is a real indictment on the legal fraternity that you would lack the confidence in a home-grown legal eagle to take the CJ job. Wonder where Jeff is hiding out on this one.


  20. @amused

    Doesnt this sound all too familiar!”Blame the Victim”


  21. Amused,

    I am surprised at your angry retort to Kiki. It makes one wonder if, perchance, you too may be guilty of doing to others what she experienced in Great Britian. I, too, have been scammed and had to have a legal bill bill taxed in 1986. It seems the profession is the same all over the world.

    By the way, years and years of education should be no excuse for lawyers to rip clients off. Medical researchers, who benefit mankind, have years and years of education, plus many post Doc. research fellowships, etc., and do not make the big money until a breakthrough. Some never do get the chance to make such a break through. Their satisfaction comes from knowing that they are working toward a better good.

    For your information, Kiki and her family are all high achievers. They spent more time studying and interning, then specializing, than a lawyer and do not make the $$ that lawyers do.

    She has been scammed and you rip her to threads. I think you should apologize.


  22. @Pat. Then, I withdraw the remark about underachieving.

    However, whether you have been scammed or not by a lawyer, Pat, does not confer on you the right to damn the whole profession. It does not confer on you the right to name and shame lawyers without proof and hard evidence and solely on the say-so of one person. Indeed, it does not give you the right to do that to ANY professional practitioner, lawyer, doctor, accountant – it makes no difference. But you might say that the lawyer has the right to respond. Of course, Pat, you of all people would not say that as you are well aware of the doctrine of absolute privilege that binds all lawyers. So in fact any disaffected client is taking pot shots at the range of their choice at a target that is bound and cannot move. You know that, Pat. Accordingly, my other comments to Kiki stand.

    Also, you would seem to be advancing the argument that anyone going into advanced education ought to be aware that they do so in order to give their later services to whoever asks. Far from reaping the rewards of hard work, they ought to just hand it over upon demand. Like it or not, if you re-read it all, that IS the thrust of the argument.

    In any profession, there are people who let the side down and certainly I am not disputing that this happens in the legal profession for one second. I would be the last person to deny the abuses that occur in law. However, to attempt to lampoon and disgrace a lawyer when in fact it might well be the client who needs lampooning, is shameful – and you know what? I think Kiki should apologise for that. You are a fair and equitable person. What do you say? Or is the urge to damn lawyers regardless so great that the standards of fairness and equity and EQUALITY depended upon by the rest of the population not available to them. Are they, in other words, second class citizens in your view?

    You are the jury. I have rested. We await your verdict with some interest.


  23. SIX months before taking her own life that fine young lady proclaimed to our founder :-
    “I can’t understand it uncle everyone thinks of bricks mortar and money
    NO ONE CARES ABOUT PEOPLE”.


  24. “Victims of Masonic Ill-Treatment”
    Thus the barrister is dependent on the solicitor for his living. ….
    (eBook – Conspiracy) – Masons the Truth – Secrets of a Secret Society

    “All disgust is originally disgust at touching.”
    Walter Benjamin (1892–1940), German critic, philosopher.


  25. (Mr Amused’s) arguments why lawyers (barristers and judges) should not be named and shamed are irrelevant. (He is one of them presumably).


  26. @ Amused
    “It does not confer on you the right to name and shame lawyers without proof and hard evidence and solely on the say-so of one person. Indeed, it does not give you the right to do that to ANY professional practitioner, lawyer, doctor, accountant – it makes no difference.”
    Am i being too critical here but i think every one deserves respect,regardless of what position they hold in life,how does one gain respect?In our culture it would appear that respect is thought of as being the right of people who have attain academic achievement,i would beg to differ, if respect is given then one would expect to receive it turn Barbadians need to create their own model of behavior with regard to legal practices (The English system was practiced on the notion of lords and gentlemen) our culture have not such notions although some may want to create such an idea, one thing i have noticed , we like to masquerade, look at the clothes our court officials wear as soon as they don this apparel they be come true Englishmen with out knowing its historical roots.We were once slaves,now that we are supposedly free this should be reflected in our treatment of our brothers and sisters when it come legal matters the law should not be used in a way to deprive us of equity, and it is about time that those persons with the responsibility of changing things make a contribution. there is no point going over and over the wicked things wicked lawyers do we to start to look for a way forward and it has to start with government


  27. @michael

    Are we reading Amused to say that because lawyers know the legal process they will always find themselves in an advantageous position over ordinary citizens who have demonstrated a reluctance to learn basic law.


  28. A Lawyer cannot sue you for stating facts.

    Example.

    Demetrius paid Lawyer Mac McGuffie $78,000 to settle an estate and later discovered that the fee should have been $38.000.

    Dumdummy was awared $500,000 in a settlement and money was placed in a client account at Lawyer DicK Crookandson. Lawyer say Dumdummy could only get $200,000 now and he will get the rest in 6 months.


  29. @David
    You are absolutely right and that goes with out saying it should behove all lawyers to act as gentlemen/ladies at all times there is no excuse for them to behave like rogues, no one should have to have knowledge of law to get good service that is like asking every one to be trained as a paramedic before they go to see their doctor.
    look at HANTS post // May 4, 2010 at 7:48 AM
    I once had the same situation phone the lawyer told here she owed me £50,000 on my calculation her response was can you come in now and pick the cheque up or would you like me to post it to you


  30. David
    people in the UK is scared of the inland revenue collectors (officials) and i think like wise people in the U.S.A is of the IRS you have to show where your money come from and you have to pay taxes on it, so good accounts has to be kept( not creative accounting like bogs telephone calls and the like), yes those who have enough money can pay accountants to hide their money ,what i am trying to say here , there is no one higher than government, but in bim are lawyers scared of any body?NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO,you can’t get any higher


  31. Lawyers use big words to talk crap, such as privileges they are entitled to. Cut out their rip off charging structures immediately.


  32. @ Amused
    I can’t tell if you are playing devil’s advocate or if you are as serious as a heart attack. If the latter, IMO you are missing the points made by a longggggggggggggg margin. In reading the context of Kiki and others, they are NOT saying Lawyers or any other Professional should give away their labor, or work for peanuts — no way no how. It would be the other side to the extreme.

    Commenters on your other side of the fence are simply saying, “let your conscience be your guide.” And as the saying goes, if horse reach Jackass would reach one gallop at a time. There isn’t any justification if what you did not get in 3 years, you should dig out other person’s eye to try to get it by any means necessary today.


  33. David // May 4, 2010 at 7:18 AM

    @michael

    Are we reading Amused to say that because lawyers know the legal process they will always find themselves in an advantageous position over ordinary citizens who have demonstrated a reluctance to learn basic law.
    =========================================

    I stated this to be the case in another blog. This is in part my intent to beat the shit out of any lawyer who attempts to rob me. They should know better. No excuses. 🙂


  34. @Amused
    and All
    surely the idea is to get Barbadian lawyers to change their way of doing business. not to beat the shite out of them,if we do this what will we achieve? nothing,what will the next generation do.we have to get peoples minds from the me me and only me to thinking of building a nation that can respect it’s self and stand by the laws and codes of good governance in which they have enacted for them self.We Must protest and protest until government start to listen to us and do some thing about illegal antics of bad lawyers


  35. This legal business is serious business in Barbados. For example, it is not unknown for lawyers who are ministers in government to frequent their businesses to offer behind the scenes labour while serving as minister. Legally the law practices have been sold to others but some of us know these are fronts created to satisfy legal requirements. The scam within the law community needs busting open.

  36. Bad man saying nuttin Avatar
    Bad man saying nuttin

    Some notes about Bajan Lawyers:

    they store client funds in their accounts and reap the interest.
    They pay taxes on a fraction of what they earn because they label fees and revenue as client funds and escape taxation.
    They go years without paying NIS contributions but 3 or 4 years before they are due to retire they pay as much as they can for the minimum number of contributions so that they can guarantee themselves a pension.
    they use client funds all the time. In the US using a client’s funds is grounds for disbarment whether you can repay or not.

    If a profession in which these types of abuses are widespread does not need independent and stringent regulation and oversight then Lord help us.


  37. @ the Barbados Underground
    people can say what they want
    about B@£*^ lawyers and they can’t cry foul
    “Dumb It Down”

  38. Adrian Hinds Avatar

    michael // May 4, 2010 at 1:32 PM

    @Amused
    and All
    surely the idea is to get Barbadian lawyers to change their way of doing business. not to beat the shite out of them,if we do this what will we achieve? nothing,what will the next generation do.
    ==========================================

    I note that you have not laid one suggestiong to bring lawyers to the table of fairness, but would want to desuade me from what I think is but one of several approaches to get them to be fair in their dealings with the public.

    It is to my mind a clear rationalization on the part of Bajan lawyers, that leads those who run afoul of their clients, to do so.

    Barbados is a nation of laws, the lawyers profession is to know the law and advise others who don’t know or who do. However it requires if not encourages, by its deliberately complex wording, and rigidity that we hire them.

    In todays world were the celebrated, the smart, and the intellectual uses all manner of dishonesty, and amoral approaches to circumvent the law, I will always maintain my own version of justice as a precaution, because I will never accept or go away quietly after being robbed, unfaired, or taken advantage of with the help of the legal system. Never.

    If all else fails I will feel justified that a price was paid, as it ought to be; by beating the shite out of the offender. lol!


  39. @Bad man saying nuttin

    That is a heavy duty load there.


  40. @ Amused

    Please, please, don’t try to manipulate my words. I was referring to your statements and the implication that because lawyers had many years of education, they also have the “Divine Right” to earn the big bucks by hook or crook.

    Nowhere did I imply that one should offer their services for free. Even though we have many in the medical profession who do do just that. Several children from Barbados, over the years, have been helped in this manner at Sick Kids. Kiki’s father, a retired kidney specialist, now volunteers his services.

    I am not amused by your response Amused! When on speaks on the blogs, especially about lawyers one tends to generalize. You, Amused, being a lawyer should know that this does not castigate all lawyers. You should realize that we each speak from our own experiences. Nothing we say re lawyers is made up.

    For instance, one wanted me to pay him $1500 to register a title to my property. The Bank prepared the discharge. Welll, too bad for him, I bought the forms from the legal stationers and did it myself. At the land Registry, I told the clerk I had prepared the documentation and asked if she would review it to make sure it was all right. She made a small change, had me initial it and it costed me about $25 in 1989.

    I also prepare my own Affidavits and swear them before a legal friend, who worked with me in government. As long as he continues to pay his professional dues, I will continue to use him, free of charge. What did I do for him? I used to save him a seat on the bus. We had a long commute to the office.

    Mind you, in Barbados, my parents used the sevices of Smith and were happy. Others in the family used Randall for a motor vehicle accidemt and were also satisfied. Friends used and still use Eddie Hinckson and have no complaints. Eddie did a Masters here in Ottawa and since Bajans here know him, they tend to use him for legal services in Barbados. On the other hand, my uncle paid a female lawyer over $7,000 to register title to land he inherited from his mother. When he showed me the bill and explanation of costs, I almost popped an artery. That was just her fee. The disbursements were extra.

    So, Amused, it seems to me that Kiki stepped on your corns. You should have let her comment go, or be more civil. I was surprised at you. I HELD you in high esteem with nuff respect!. lol! Kiki is one of the few people on this blog who do not offend, denigrate or cast aspersions. She always finds something musical that relates to discussions, placates warring factions and sheds a differnet light on things. In this respect, I think the lady is a genius.

    By the way, why all the lathering up in your post? We be friends still, ha ha ah.


  41. @Amused ‘ he realizes that there is no one in Barbados, or Bajan, capable of doing the job’

    Some good points raised but, what makes you think that a non-bajan will get the job done either? I suspect that it may turn out to be a surprise handful for whomever takes it…….wherever they are from and whatever ‘letters and experience they have’….

    Wunna going now find out where barley grow….


  42. Have you ever been to Court and heard a lawyers best prepared argument against inappropriate behaviour, malfeasance, misfeasance etc as “I cannot remember your honour”

    Podcast: If 6 Was 9
    —————————————————————————–
    Please note
    I accidently posted the comment below on the “Thieving Lawyers Scourge of Unsuspecting Bajan’s” thread by mistake

    • kiki on Thieving Lawyers The Scourge Of Unsuspecting Barbadians


  43. One reason people blog is to clean up the f@cked up shit-stem.


  44. @Pat // May 4, 2010 at 10:43 PM. Your words were not manipulated by me. They lacked any clarity by you. You have now rectified that. By the way, I don’t have any corns and my feet have not been mashed.

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