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The right questions are being asked and the correct evidence is being pursued. Today, theologians and others studying especially the bible are studying what is not fact and in a lot of cases, a figment of men’s imaginations over time.
All through the process of the compilation of the bible, texts were changed and large portions of the old testament were reconstructed because they were lost from the original text. A quick check with photos of the original documents would reveal large rotted sections which crumbled to dust on being handled, yet there are words in the bible to fill the place of those that were not recovered.
These were rewritten over time; reconstructed they say. Reconstructed from what? Nothing!
But then, even after the reconstruction, more was written in order to avoid the contradictions. Books were also taken out and scruffily referred to as non-canonised text; deemed to be somewhat inauthentic… by whom? Under what authority?
My problem is that we take this folly and deem it to be truth and even taking it further in modern times to call it “absolute truth”. I am sure that the men who inserted those texts, if they were alive today would either be laughing hard or stand in amazement of how well their made-up texts have stood the test of time and furthermore duped the whole world.
So, the books like eden and the apocrypha which were an original part of the bible or scriptures were removed. I would say that I got a good appreciation for who satan was when I read the forgotten books of eden. Also got a more realistic picture of the relationship between he and god, as it seemed obvious that satan was trying to save man from something.
With all his powers he could have taken Seth but allowed Seth to the opportunity to refuse. Yet when god turned up at the scene all he could tell satan was, away with thee.
God terrorised Adam, took him through all kinds of scenes claiming it was the devil and then playing he could command Satan when in truth and fact, during the accounts of encounters between Satan and god, god was as humble as could be. Here was a man (god) asserting his ownership of property which included Adam and denouncing Satan any right to interfere but Satan was not only sure-footed, he pushed god to the edge. To my mind it was Seth that saved the day. If Seth had only spoken differently, our history would not be the same today. Even to find these texts today is a kind of miracle, but don’t think those books are not changing. They are trying to clean up that act too.
We have lost it and i repeat, the ancient people had no doubts as to who was god; certainly no omnipotent, life everlasting being. As a matter of fact one who died and was replaced by a successor like how we replace kings and queens and presidents and prime ministers, but the person is known by the title.
It is only a matter of time before this information becomes common knowledge. Indeed, along with Ben Jochannan has developed a generation of Egyptologists who have torn the bible to shreds showing the evidence of its misinformation and deception.
This is what we as a world have embraced as the truth. We speak it as the truth and ready to kill for it, when all along it is lies and deception.
You only need to do a short study on the talmud and you would find that the Talmud constituted a secret society led by god himself who handed down the first rules and I am not speaking of the commandments… but the gist is that god ordered that they pay more attention to the Talmud than the scriptures. In other words to heed the “Word of Man” and not the scriptures. Where does that place the bible as a book of importance? By god himself!
Today is a sad day when people could be making this an intellectual exercise based of the miswritings of so-called clergymen and gatekeepers of the christian religion who have failed mankind with respect to spiritual guidance and prosperity.
I urge every reader to find out for themselves who is god. Don’t stop asking the question. One thing for sure, god is real, but he is really not who we think he is; certainly not all-powerful and certainly does not and will not live forever.
That eternity is reserved for the Creator alone and a little piece of the Creator is in all of us. Neither male nor female but both male and female; lively and yet lifeless; yesterday, today and tomorrow; dead and alive; was, is and will be; without which there is nothing and could be nothing; that constitutes everything from all times and times to come; that no person can see the face of the Creator except through what is alive and in the sight of that person; all we can see and cannot see.
This my friend is the Creator and not the god of the bible, no matter what who believes and how strongly. There is simply no evidence to support Jehovah as the Creator but there is certainly evidence to show that he is not, never has been and never will be.
@David, “We have read where theologians agree the Bible is a combination of allegories parables and theology.”
David, the Bible, the Word of God is far more than just ‘allegories’ ‘parables’ and it most certainly is ‘Theology’ which is the study of God and His divinely inspired Word.
The biblical inspired writers themselves belong to a great variety of literary types. they include history, law ( civil, criminal, ethical, ritual, sanatary), religious poetry, didactic treatises, lyric poetry, parable and ellegory, biography, personal correspondence, personal memoirs and diaries, in addition to the distinctively Biblical types of prophecy and apocalyptic.
For all that, the Bible is not simply an anthology; there is a *unity* which binds the whole together. An anthology is complied by an anthologist, but NO anthologist complied the Bible.
The Bible IS absolutely unique in the writings that have come down to us from antiquity. It is distinctively unique in its teaching.
Regarding prophecy, Wilbur Smith, who complied a personal library of 25,000 volumes, concludes that:
“Whatever one may think of the authority of and the message presented in the book we call the Bible, there IS world-wide agreement that in more ways than one it IS the most remarkable volume that has EVER been produced in these some five thousand years of writing on the part of the human race.”
Smith goes on to assert:
“It IS the ONLY volume EVER produced by man, or a group of men, in which is to be found a large body of *prophecies* relating to individual *nations*, to Israel, to ALL the peoples of the earth, to certain *cities* and to the coming *One* who was to be the Messiah. The ancient world had many different devices for determining the future, known as divination, but not in the entire gamut of Greek and Latin literature, even though they use the words of prophets and prophecy, can we find any real specific prophecy of a great historic event to come in the distinct future, nor any prophecy of a Saviour to arise in the human race…”
(Evidence That Demands A Verdict, p. 22). emphasis added.
Again, as I posted this in an earlier thread:
The distinguished archaeologist, Professor Albright, begins his classic essay, The Biblical Period:
“Hebrew national tradition excels ALL others in its clear picture of tribal and family origins. In Egypt and Babylonia, in Assyria and Phoenicia, in Greece and Rome, we LOOK in vain for anything *comparable*. There IS NOTHING like it in the tradition of Germanic peoples. Neither India nor China can produce anything similar, since their earliest historical memories are literary deposits of distorted dynastic tradition, with NO trace of the herdsman or peasent behind the demigod or king with whom their records begin. Neither in the oldest Indic historians is there a HINT of the fact that both Indo-Aryans and Hellenes were once nomads who immigrated into their later abodes from the north. The Assyrians to be sure, remembered vaguely that their earliest rulers, whose names they recalled without any details about their deed, were tent dwellers, but whence they came had long been forgotten.” (Ibid., p. 23) emphasis added.
In all of ancient literature, there IS NO record like that of “The Table of Nations” in Genesis 10; as Prof Albright points out:
“…it is an astonishingly accurate historical account…It stands absolutely *alone* in ancient literature *without* a remote parallel even among the Greeks…’The Table of Nations’ remains an astonishingly accurate document….(It) shows such remarkable ‘modern’ understanding of the ethnic and linguistic situation in the modern world, in spite of all its complexity, that scholars never fail to be impressed with the author’s knowledge of the subject.” (Ibid., p.23) emphasis added.
The footprint, and Omnipotent Hand of Almighty God, our Creator IS indelibly SEEN from the Creation account in Genesis 1 and 2, and *continues* throught the history of mankind and all *nations* exactly as His Word, in the Bible said IT would, right UP to this present era, unfolding as The Lord Jesus Christ, summarized it in Matthew chapter 24, for ALL to see.
There IS NO other ancient documents, that even comes close, to a glimmer of the accuracy of the Bible; because IT IS God’s Word to ALL of mankind.
This has been vehemently denied througout the ages, attacked viciously, YET, the Bible, God’s Word, IS the greatest selling book EVER, translated into more languages than ANY other book, and to those who have heeded ITS eternal wisdom, have PROVED that He can be trusted, no matter what!
..and this is EXACTLY where I have my reservations about the Bible and Christianity.
@ Zoe…
Your explanation does nothing to simplify the issues either.
That vehement *HATER* of God’s WORD, the BIBLE, which he CANNOT refute, historically, evidencially, OR otherwise, continues to belch forth the *LIES* of his ‘father’ SATAN, who first spoke in the guise of the *SERPENT* to Eve:
“Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden?”
NOTE: The ARCH ENEMY of His Creator, SATAN, cast the very first doubt into Eve’s mind, who was STILL up to that point, holding on to her Creator’s Word.
“And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; BUT of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, GOD has said, ‘You SHALL NOT eat it, nor shall you touch it, LEST YOU DIE.”
NOTE: IF, she partook of the forbidden tree, she would DIE!
BUT, listen to the *FATHER* of ALL LIES, the deceiver!
“Then the serpent said to the woman, ‘You will NOT surely DIE. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be LIKE GOD, knowing good from evil.”
Well, who WAS RIGHT? Eve’s Creator, Almighty God, or the LIAR, ARCH enemy of TRUTH, God’s Truth?
The FIRST death Adam and Eve experienced WAS *spiritual* death, a SEVERED relationship with Almighty God, their Creator, which HAS followed EVERY human being from THEN until this day. The second DEATH was physical, and it has never stopped.
That UTTERLY *deceived* poster above, is one of the most glaring examples of HIS *spiritual* father, SATAN…bring it on man…and let the TRUTH be told… let the people hear and judge for themselves through BU, who IS the *LIAR* and DECEIVER, from the very beginning….bring it on MAN…!!!
David
Back in the day when Jesus walked the earth we have the impression events would not have been scribed in real-time and instead was as a result of events and stories recorded by word of mouth possibly after significant time had elasped especially pertaining to Jesus
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I rarely comment on religious topics, it may be because my knowledge is poor ( some may say that never stopped me before) but David in essence what you are saying is that the Bible is a bunch of nostalgia much like “Remembering what was Bajan”
And I thought that the Xmas cease fire would last until New Years at least.
OMG…ZOE!!
This is exactly what I mean about you!!
Rather than try to explain, you resort to condemning one poster.
How can anyone learn anything from you when you cant even address the issue at hand without being distracted?
IMHO, if the people were to decide , you would come up lacking when it comes to explaining the Word, not to mention your weakness when challenged.
There are other who have reservations about what is written in the Bible and its different versions.
Cant you explain this without the ‘Liar, deceiver, daddy’ rhetoric ?
Where is GP when you need [Sir Gary] clarity eh?
David
Like Zoe, I would state that the Bible is certainly NOT a combination of allegories, parables and theology. Yes there are some allegories and parables, as those are forms used for teaching much as we would use analogy or other figures of speech and teaching techniques. There is of course theology, since after all, theology simply means “the study of God.”
Again we see the scholarship of Zoe shining through, and standing out- especially when compared with the moronoic mouthings that has value only as fuel or for compost making or taking up space at Mangrove.
This is the sort of drivel associated with the Codrington College and its adherents that has left the masses ignorant about what the Bible is and what it teaches, about its author, main personage and things of this nature.
Like Zoe, I would highly recommend the books written by Josh McDowell – a FORMER ATHEIST! Evidence that demands a verdict is definitely one of them.
RB Thieme has written a nice little book called CANONICITY which is free for the asking. Just ask for it online. There is no need for anyone of us to remain in darkness on the matter of Biliography or Canonicity.
One has either studied the Bible, or he has not. One either has an appreciation of Biliography, or he has not One is either a Bible scholar like Zoe is, or he is a bovine excrement excretor..
I find it necessary therefore to repeat information posited during the discussions on the thread the Rise of Antichrist and the dead sea scrolls.
“Back in the day when Jesus walked the earth” the Hebrew OT was available as well as the Septuagint. A proper study of Bibliology reveals the details of the preservation of the Bible. The discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls served to demonstrate the accuracy of this preservation.
There are two strange arguments against the age of the Bible. These are
1] that Moses could not have written the first five books of the Old Testament because there was no such thing as writing when Moses lived. However, this foolish argument is refuted by the fact that the Sumerians had writing 1500 years before Moses.
2] that the Bible could not be as old as it claims since there were no books written until some hundreds of years after Christ was on earth. This is also a foolish argument since it ignores the fact that there were many, many books written many years before Christ. Every student of philosophy knows of the book written by Plato called “The Republic.” That book was written 400 years before Christ.
According to tradition, “Great Synagogue” consisted of the leaders and priests of the Jews, who in 445 B.C.,signed their names to an agreement to collect and preserve all the sacred writings that God had given up to that time. Besides that, they agreed to add to those writings the further writings that God would give in the future. Ezra was the first President of the Great Synagogue. Over the years that followed, Daniel, Haggai and Malachi and others were also members.
Over the years these godly men prayed and carefully preserved and collected the sacred writings. This work was completed in 300 B.C.. They included only those manuscripts which were clearly from God, which had been recognized by all the people as from God, which stated only what was clearly true and which taught only things clearly in keeping with the character of God.
They gathered the writings from God given up to that time and put them in one book. this book is the Old Testament portion of the Holy Bible as we know it today. The Old Testament Scriptures were written in the Hebrew language except for a few chapters in Daniel and Ezra and one verse in Jeremiah which were in Aramaic.
The members of the Great Synagogue put some of the books in a different order than we now use them. Also, they combined some of the books that we divide (1 and 2 Kings were just one book then), but they were exactly the same as the thirty-nine books we now include in the Old Testament.
The purpose of the “Great Synagogue” for the leaders and priests of the Jews to collect and preserve all the sacred writings that God had given the Jews up to that time. Besides that, they agreed to add to those writings the further writings that God would give in the future.
Over the years these godly men prayed and carefully preserved and collected the sacred writings. This work was completed in 300 B.C.. They included only those manuscripts which were clearly from God, which had been recognized by all the people as from God, which stated only what was clearly true and which taught only things clearly in keeping with the character of God.
They gathered the writings from God given up to that time and put them in one book. This book is the Old Testament portion of the Holy Bible as we know it today.
By the time the Great Synagogue had finished its work, the Persian Empire had fallen and had been replaced by the Greek Empire. Throughout this whole empire, the Greek Language was the one language that was commonly understood.
Many of the Jews still remained scattered throughout the world. Not all of them had returned to Jerusalem. Though the Jews kept their own language, Hebrew, many of them were using it less and less. They were gradually forgetting Hebrew and replacing it with Greek.
The Greek language is a very rich language. It is very precise and accurate. It is possible to say just what you want to say: more so than in many other languages. The spreading of the Greek Empire and the spreading of the Greek language prepared the way for the spread of the gospel. The Greek language was also very important because it was the language that God chose in which to have the New Testament written.
The Septuagint was the translation of the Old Testament into Greek done by approximately seventy scholars who went to Alexandria to work on this project. The Septuagint was then circulated among the Greek speaking Jews. It was widely circulated in Palestine in Jesus’ day and in the time of the apostles-both Jesus and the apostles quoted from it.
The Dead Sea Scrolls refers to the apparently accidental find in 1947 by an Arab shepherd boy looking for some of his lost sheep of what turned out to have included among them genuine Biblical manuscripts written on rolls of thin leather antedating the oldest known Old Testament manuscripts by one thousand years, proving that God had provided for the preservation and the recovery of His written message, the Canon of the Old Testament.
The area of Palestine where this took place was very near the Dead Sea, not too far from the Jordan River. The manuscripts had been well preserved since that part of Palestine is very dry and there was not sufficient moisture in the air to make these old manuscripts spoil.
These manuscripts were finally obtained by scholars who carefully unrolled and studied them. They were found to be written in Hebrew and were very old. It was possible to discover that they were from about 200 years before Christ.
Further search in nearby caves revealed hundreds more of these manuscripts included in which were quotations from every book of the Old Testament except for the book of Esther. Of some of the Old Testament books there were not only some complete copies, but sections from multiple manuscripts. Sections of fourteen manuscripts of Deuteronomy, twelve of Isaiah and ten of the Psalms were found in just one cave.
Of the approximately 100 manuscripts of Old Testament portions, a number of them, if translated into Greek, would have read very much like the Septuagint. As they are, in Hebrew, many of them are like the Hebrew text which we use today.
However. not all the writings in the Dead Sea Scrolls were words of scripture. Nearly three-fourths of them were about such things as the rules of the religious group who put the scrolls in the cave. Nearly three-fourths of the Dead Sea Scrolls were about such things as the rules of the religious group who put the scrolls in the cave.
Because the Jews of the Old Testament era realized how holy the Word of God was, when they made copies of it, if they made even a small error on a page, they would destroy the whole page and start over. At the end of the page they counted how many letters there were on the page so they could know if they had left anything out.
The Jewish scribes began to use vowel marks in their copies of the Scriptures about the year 500 A.D
because about this time the Hebrew speaking people invented a way of adding to the written words some extra little marks that would tell the reader which vowel he was to use in that word. it was possible that a given set of consonants might mean several different things, depending on which vowels the reader supplied.
When the vowel markings were invented, the Hebrew scholars immediately went to work to add all the vowel markings to the entire Old Testament so that there would be no confusion as to what any particular word had been in the original.The text that they produced is called the Masoretic Text and it is the text that is used to this very day in the study of the Old Testament.
@Sargeant
Like Techie and others BU is pursuing clarity to age old positions on religion. Members of the BU family have sat in churches and heard prominent clergy refer to the bible as a composition of allegories and parables and the truth must be sieved from that which is isn’t with care. The multitude of people we have masquerading and dividing the word from a position of ignorance is part of the problem. Although like GP we don’t agree one must be a scholar to understand the word, BU is sympathetic to the view held by BT and others that would question why the ambiguity in the language if the audience is meant for ALL to understand. Our questions are not meant to diss the bible, only to seek knowledge and understanding.
Technician
GP is here ma boy.
And Zoe is on the ball too.
You need to understand Zoe is unique, like each one of us, and he has the right to earnestly contend for the faith in his own way and individual style.
Whether you like hios way or style, he is CORRECT! He rightly DIVIDES THE WORD OF TRUTH. Thats why I defend him.
Earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the saints (cf Jude 1:3) is the duty of all true believers, and this will some times involve not only explaining (and he does explain well) but also denouncing and condemning errant posters.
You can learn mch from Zoe if you try, man, because his Theology is as sound as a bell!
He has indeed started to address the matter at hand, Techie. Just quoting from the books that he quoted, and giving you those references is a big start. Better than the BS that preceeded his post!
Again I must disagree with you my friend, whenyou opine that he comes up lacking when it comes to explaining the Word.
And no one on this blog can really challenge his Theology. You can challenge his person, or his personality or the tenor and tone of his deliver, but his thesis and theology is a treasure!
The man has clearly studied Theology to the Doctoral level and it is very evident! He is in the top drawer, and far better than a loit of the junk I hear on tv up hear man.
We agree with you that “There are other who have reservations about what is written in the Bible and its different versions,” but some of the exponents of this bovine excrement must also be defined as the “Liars”, “deceivers” and followers of their “daddy” as they clearly are!
Re “Where is GP when you need [Sir Gary] clarity eh?”
I am here, man. I will not leave you comfortless friend (comfortless is oorphanos in the Greek , i.e orpans.
And so we sing Alleluia Not as orphans…….
LOL
There are several reasons why we are assured that we have an accurate Bible. We get some evidence from a group of men called the “Church Fathers.”
These men were the leaders in the early church just after the Apostles. Some of these men were alive at the time of the writing of parts of the New Testament.
All of them lived within a fairly short period of time after the completion of the New Testament. We have many books and letters written by these Church Fathers.
There are many places in their writings where they quote from the New Testament. In the writings of the Church Fathers they quote the entire New Testament except for eleven verses. This gives us confidence that the manuscripts we now use are accurate and are virtually the same as the originals.
We also have copies of the very first translations of the New Testament into other languages. In the year 150 A.D., a translation was made into the Syriac language.
This was done within fifty-five years of the completion of the writing of the New Testament. Another translation was made into Latin in 175 A.D. If both of these translations were re-translated back into Greek, we would find that the resulting Greek text would be identical with the Greek texts from which we make our present day translations.
There are some manuscripts of portions of the New Testament that date back to within 100 years of the completion of the writing of the New Testament.
These oldest manuscripts are incomplete and therefore include only small portions of the New Testament. As we come to more recent manuscripts, however, we find manuscripts that are much more complete.
There are some manuscripts from the third century (200 years after the completion of the New Testament) that are much more complete. The parts of the New Testament that are missing from one manuscript will be found in others.
Thus, it is possible to discover the entire New Testament as it was used in approximately the third century.
The age of a manuscript may be ascertained with fair accuracy by comparing the general style of writing with the styles generally known at various stages of history.
Manuscripts can also be dated by the type of ink that is used. A scientist can examine inks and tell exactly what kind they are. Some were made from soot, some from berries and some from other substances. Each was used at a different time of history.
The type of paper or other material on which a manuscript is written can also be used for dating the writing. Writing materials were made from grass, trees and other living materials. These living materials have in them atoms of carbon which are taken into them from the soil as they grew. A very tiny percentage of these carbon atoms are of a special kind called “radio active.” They are different than normal carbon atoms.
Very slowly these special atoms change back into normal atoms, and as they do so, they give off something like a tiny x-ray. By examining a piece of writing material with a very sensitive instrument for the presence of these special carbon atoms, scientists can tell with fair accuracy just when the tree or grass was cut to be made into paper.
Also, there were various kinds of writing materials used at different times in history. Some things were written by pressing on damp clay with a small stick to make the letters.
Some things were written on animal skins, some of paper made from reeds (papyrus), and some on paper made from trees. On what it has been written and in what particular time it was written is not difficult to know. These are just a few of the ways that a manuscript can be dated.
There are over five thousand manuscripts of various types of the Greek New Testament or portions thereof in existence today. If even one of the 5000 manuscripts uses a different letter in spelling a word a different order between two words, the scholars call that a variant (difference).
Variants DO NOT affect the teaching of Scripture. Taking all these variants together, they affect only about one-eighth of the New Testament. If you leave off such variants as are obviously unimportant, for instance one manuscript spelling a word differently than the others, you will find that the remaining variants affect less than one percent of the New Testament. Of those remaining variants, there are none that change any doctrine (teaching) of the New Testament. This is a remarkable degree of protection of the meaning of the originals.
The Bible is unique and unlike any other book ever written, because it is a Holy Book from God containing God’s message to mankind.
Anything one needs to know about God can be found in its pages and nowhere else. Therein can be found how to escape judgment for your sin and how to be accepted by God into heaven.”
The Bible is unique book also in that it is not the kind of book that man would write even if he were able to do so. The Bible is a detailed record of man’s sin, his failures, his humiliation and his utter worthlessness.
It details the repeated failures of the Jewish nation, the repeated defeats, the repeated warnings of God to the Jews, the scattering of the Jewish people, their blindness at the coming of their King, their scheming and sin in crucifying an innocent man.
From beginning to end, the Bible is the story of God. He is not the sort of God that men would ordinarily write about. Psalm 86:8 makes it quite clear that the God of the Bible is not at all like any other god ever thought of by men. The Bible is a book about God. But it is a book which sees things from God’s point of view, from the point of view of the unique God.
@ David
As self appointed President of the BU online Bible college, I assure you sire, that the pursuit of clarity to age old positions on Christianity will be upheld.
Like you say, I also sat in churches and heard prominent clergy religion excrete like true methaneogogues! I agree with you that there are many – yeah a multitude of people who are masquerading with the Word in hand from a position of ignorance, and that that is PRIMARILY the problem. These twits are NOT at all rightly dividing the word of truth.
Unlike BT, I do not think that there is ambiguity in the language, and I have never thought so, since starting to study seriously in 1968.
Further more I have heard men speak who were known not even to have attended secondary school. But they had SEARCHED THE SCRIPTURES and STUDIED THEM.
Two of my first teachers went only to class 7 at St Lawrence Boys, but they were good students of the Bible, and were aided by the Holy Spirit. They used their Scofield, and Thompson Chain Reference Bibles and read the good authors, and listened to sermons by great preachers.
As I grew I bought my own books, read the free simple 32 page booklets from Radio Bible Class on several Bible topics, ordered the free booklets from RB Thieme etc and so I learned bit by bit, piece by piece, here a little there a little.
The secret really is to master one small piece. I started with the shortest books. Jude 3rd John , 2nd John, Philemon , 2 Peter, Titus etc In fact that is still how I read the NT. I never read it from Mathew to Revelation.
That way you know from 3rd John not to try to have the pre-eminence in the church like Diotrophes. You learn too that missions is accomplished by some who actually go, and also by members of local churches contributing to support those who go. AND NOTE TITHES OR OFFERINGS ARE PAID TO LOCAL CHURCHES because the local church is the fighting unit or platoon of the church.
I INSTINCTIVELY TUNE OUT OR TURN OFF ALL TV PREACHERS WHO BEG FOR MONEY AND WHO ALWAYS ASKING YOU TO “SEW SEEDS” INTO THEIR WORK! OR THOSE WHO SELL PRAYER CLOTHS ETC. THIS IS UNSCRIPTURAL!
These men bring the teaching of the Word into dispute, as well as the idiots that BLATANTLY MISINTERPRET 3 John 2 to try to persuade church folk that all Christians should be RICH.
2 John makes it very clear how to deal with the JW’s when they come to your house. DON’T LET THEM IN & DONT TELL THEM GOODBYE!
Why? because THEY DENY THAT JESUS IS COME IN THE FLESH. This concept is the foundation of Christianity, and is stressed repeatedly by John in ist John.
JUDE teaches in vs 24 that Jesus will PREVENT believers from FALLING, and PRESENT THEM AS FAULTLESS. Verses 20-25 gives a message of how the believer should conduct his life. Verse 1 teaches that believers are
SERVANTS
SANCTIFIED OR SAPARTED OR SET APART
SEASONED or pickled or preserved or kept
SUMMONED for salvation and service
The key word is KEEP or a word that means keep
The rest of the book like 2 Peter 2 has to do with FALSE TEACHERS, their claims their character and their condemnation
I grasped these things in 1982. Since the Bible does not change, there is not much more to grasp on these books, except that as you continue to read or study now, you meet up with scholars who point out nuances from the words that were chosen in the original, or information of historical background interest.
For example I heard Billy Graham preaching on Luke 15 last night, and for the first time I learned why the woman was looking earnestly for the lost coin.
It was because to get married a girl in those days collected 10 silver coins to put in the head band they wore on getting g married to signify that they were indeed married.
“Unlike BT, I do not think that there is ambiguity in the language, and I have never thought so, since starting to study seriously in 1968”
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GP
…you can’t at least take a break from bragging for the holiday?
..even you must be sick and tired of hearing yourself by now…
When you ever heard BT talk about ambiguity in the bible?
What I did say is that you are continuing to brag about how much you know and yet clearly do not grasp basic issues…..(i won’t repeat any examples here of such issues…)
Are you saying that THE almighty God needs to depend on human beings being educated (so that they can do all this study and referencing that you continue to brag about) ?
Look Man!
The ability to understand God’s word has NO relationship to any level of education or to the length of study.
……even bush men can understand.
You see that Jesus selected simple working class (fishermen) as disciples – pick sense from that.
What concordances did they have?
Man stick with the biology do!
Such lies. The old testament was an oral tradition for many years so was the Talmud. What you calling christians were split in so many traditions and had so many leaders that this imagined synagogue which the same christ is said to have cursed was nothing but a mockery and really was the original plot to come up with a doctrine that would rule the world. It fit in well with Constantine’s plans.
Now I see that somebody above is talking about clerics who were alive when the new testament was being written. Clearly, there are no accounts of God handing down text which is now the new testament. Both the old and new testaments were written by man and this talk of man being inspired by god is a fallacy. No more than Marx and all the other philosophers in recent times.
There is no contradiction above to show that the old testament was not oral before being written down. So was the Talmud. As to the new testament, that was shaped over many years as a counter to all existing religions at the time. It actually copied the old stories out of Sumeria and Egypt.
Without this Egyptian grounding, there was no legitimacy. It had to be written or told in such a way that it was palatable with what people believed, rather than contrary to. It therefore had to be full of Egyptian culture and religion and the original texts still stands inscribed on the walls of the pyramid and other Egyptian relics.
As a matter of fact, the Egyptologists have embarked on giving tours in Egypt, taking its tourists to all the inscriptions on these walls to let them see for themselves that what is written in the bible were on those wall for thousands of years before any bible was even conceptualised. Much of the new testament is based on these old stories; The immaculate conception and the birth of christ, the death and the rising from the dead; the garden of eden; and the early characters which were replaced by the names Adam, Eve, Abraham, Seth, Lot, etc.
The bible therefore turns out to be a virtual plagiarism of the old Sumerian and Egyptian “Mythology” as they would like to call it.
So this foolishness about christians can be assured that the text were original is a mere attempt at damage control to try to keep your religion intact.
It may not happen today, but it is inevitable that in years to come, the bible will fall into disrepute an we will wonder how men could have been so foolish as to have ever believed a word of that thing. It is also important that god is put in perspective. A lot of what is portrayed as coming from god is nothing more than an insult to that race and nothing but the harsh reality will do.
Man wunna could wriggle as wunna like. Wunna still got to tell me why would the “absolute truth” is a “belief”. Why would anybody have to have faith in the absolute truth?
IT IS EITHER THE TRUTH OR IT IS NOT!
@GP
“Like you say, I also sat in churches and heard prominent clergy religion excrete like true methaneogogues! I agree with you that there are many – yeah a multitude of people who are masquerading with the Word in hand from a position of ignorance, and that that is PRIMARILY the problem. These twits are NOT at all rightly dividing the word of truth.”
I don’t know why you are crying them down because you are among them. There is no separation in case you believe so; no more than a separation between the anglicans and the seventh day adventist.
You all like to think that you got the right thing and all other denominations are wrong. Such naive rantings. What makes you different? You have new evidence? Probably came from God himself, right?
BT
It would have been nice if you had read what David wrote and to which I responded
BU is sympathetic to the view held by BT and others that would question why the ambiguity in the language if the audience is meant for ALL to understand.
Re …you can’t at least take a break from bragging for the holiday? NO I WONT SINCE IT SEEMS TO ANNOY YOU!
..even you must be sick and tired of hearing yourself by now… NO I DON’T BECAUSE I AM GOOD AND I KNOW IT EVEN IF YOU DON’T! PLUS IT SEEMS TO ANNOY YOU!
What I did say is that you are continuing to brag about how much you know and yet clearly do not grasp basic issues….. NO I AM NOT INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU CONSIDER BASIC ISSUES. ESPECIALLY AS IT SEEMS TO ANNOY YOU!
THE FOLK WHO TAUGHT ME AND THE BOOKS I HAVE READ DO NOT CONSIDER THE THINGS YOU CONSIDER IMPORTANT OR BASIC ISSUES S O VERY IMPOTANT NOR DO I!
I DON’T REGARD YOU AS A BIBLE SCHOLAR. YOU WERE NONE OF THOSE WHO TAUGHT ME. I HAVE READ NO BOOKS WRITTEN BY YOU, AND FRANKLY YOU HAVE NIOTHING TO TEACH ME OK? SO JUST PLEASE KINDLY FORGET ME OK?“.
Are you saying that THE almighty God needs to depend on human beings being educated
NO IF YOU WIL READ WHAT I WROTE IN MY LAST POST YOU WILL SEE THAT I WROTE IN BASIC ENGLISH THAT “Two of my first teachers went only to class 7 at St Lawrence Boys, but they were good students of the Bible, and were aided by the Holy Spirit.”
I THINK THAT REASONABLY LITERATE PEOPLE WOULD INTERPRET THAT I CONSIDERED THEM TO BE UNEDUCATED. I still think that they are good teachers because they have continued reading and studying and learning.
It is interesting that I learned “to all this study and referencing that I continue to brag about)” from them, and my first pastor from St Vincent (who is still the greatest Spiritual leader and teacher I have had) who was also “uneducated.”
Only an idiot would make a remark like this one ?
“The ability to understand God’s word has NO relationship to any level of education or to the length of study.”
YOU WOIONT SAY THAT ABOUT MEDICAL EXPERTS MECHANICS COOKS OR ANY OTHER AREA OF ENDEAVOR. It is the same with BIBLE. As good as my first teachers were, they WERE GLAD TO SIT UNDER THE TUTELAGE OF A GREAT BIBLE TEACHER FROM BJU, who taught us all—and whose tapes can ne heard on radio 1400 during the week.
Yes Jesus selected simple working class (fishermen) as disciples – BUT THESE MEN KNEW THE OT BACKWARDS – IT WAS PART OF THEIR CULTURE TO DO SO. THAT’S THE SENSE I PICK FROM THAT.
I ALSO NOTE THAT EDUCATED MEN—NOT MORONS- LIKE MOSES, PAUL, AND DR LUKE WROTE MAJOR PARTS OF THE BIBLE.
IT IS NOTEWORTHY THAT PAUL AND DR LUKE BETWEEN THEM WROTE ALMOST 75 % of the NT… AND NOT THE FISHERMEN THAT JEUS CHOSE! Ah lie?
YOU DO IT YOUR WAY
AND I DO IT MY WAY
I HAVE SHARED HOW I DID IT AND HOW I GREW I HAVE SHARED WHAT I READ WHAT HELPED ME AND I WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO ON BU WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. OR WHETHER IT ANNOYS YOU OR WHETHER YOU CALL IT BOASTING OR NOT.
I WILL NOT APOLOGIZE FOR KNOWING OR STUDYING OR THE EOSURE I GOT AND GRASPED.
WHEREVER I HAVE GONE TO TEACH THE WORD INCLUDING ON RADIO IN TWO COUNTRIES THE AUDIENCE APRECIATED IT.
I AM NOT DEPENDING ON YOUR INPUT BT.
So forget me. I would be very grateul if you would. You are adding nothing what so ever to the debate. NOTHING.
Nopr can you contradict ANY of the teaching I made in my last post.
@GP
“Only an idiot would make a remark like this one ?
“The ability to understand God’s word has NO relationship to any level of education or to the length of study.”
“YOU WOIONT SAY THAT ABOUT MEDICAL EXPERTS MECHANICS COOKS OR ANY OTHER AREA OF ENDEAVOR.”
That is where you would like to pigeon hole christianity? Elitist? So only the theologians will be saved? People, wunna better get out of christianity, only certain people will make it and if you never went to a bible college you certainly will not. You living on fair promises according to the Lord of Lords.
@GP
“I ALSO NOTE THAT EDUCATED MEN—NOT MORONS- LIKE MOSES, PAUL, AND DR LUKE WROTE MAJOR PARTS OF THE BIBLE.
“IT IS NOTEWORTHY THAT PAUL AND DR LUKE BETWEEN THEM WROTE ALMOST 75 % of the NT… AND NOT THE FISHERMEN THAT JEUS CHOSE! Ah lie?”
Soon you will come down to earth. Educated men wrote the bible. I am sure that much research was required and huge imaginations too. Oh sorry, the imagination was the inspiration from god?
To be inspired by god to write the bible, you had to be educated. God was incapable of using fishermen as mediums to set out his work.
GP
Yuh talking with a forked tongue man. On the one hand you expounding on how much and how long you and your cohorts studied to acquire the great knowledge that you have –
– now in response to my dig, you saying you learnt from an uneducated pastor and that the holy spirit taught him.
See if you can make up your mind what your position really is…
….and two clarifications:
1 – you do not annoy me! you amaze me. Your display of the fruits of the spirit is ….. illuminating…
2 Re my forgetting you, – YOU made reference to BT re some alleged ambiguity of biblical language.. I merely clarified my position.
Consider yourself forgotten.
….. and carry on smartly.
Well, Well, Well……
I am here reading a book named ‘The Mis-Education Of the Negro.’
It was written by Carter G Woodson (1875-1950). First edition and first printing 1933.
Believe it or not, it is being played out right here on BU.
Fascinating, this blog really is!!
Re Yuh talking with a forked tongue man.
On the one hand you expounding on how much and how long you and your cohorts studied to acquire the great knowledge that you have – AND THIS IS THE TRUTH …..WE STUDIED
– now in response to my dig, you saying you learnt from an uneducated pastor and that the holy spirit taught him. AND THIS IS ALSO THE TRUTH
He didnt go to St Vincent top schools. He was self taught and reached a high position in their civil service. He was the most amazing person I ever met in the church. Even the BJU folk wanted to take him back to the States.
Though he was uneducated IT WAS HE WHO TAUGHT IS TO SERACH THE SCRIPTURES AND TO STUDY!
THIS MAN SOLD US OUR FIRST BOOKS WAY BELOW HALF PRICE
THIS MAN HIMSELF STUDIED
AND THE EX ST LAWRENCE BOYS I SPOKE OF ALL STUDIED TOO.
THEY ALL HAD MATHEW HENRY’S COMMENTARY AND JAMIESON FAWWCETT & BROWN PLUS A THOMPSON CHAIN REFERENCE.
I studied five years for my medical degree
Lawyers study three and then go to Hugh wooding schoolfor 2 more.
Architects study
engineers study
cooks go to culinary school
To function and keep us to date ALL PROFESSIONALS STUDDY AND KEEP ON STUDYING
IT ISSTUID AND SENSELESS TO MOCK FOLK WHO STUDY.
WHEN WE GOT THE CHANCE OF FREE EDUCATION WE WERE TOLD TO STUDY!
EVERYONE STUDIES TO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT TO KNOW OR ARE INTERESTED IN KNOWING
PEOPLE WHO REALLY WANT TO KNOW AND UNDERSTAND & TEACH SHAKESPEARE STUDY IT FOR YEARS! I LISTEN TO THEM ON TV ALL THE TIME!
PEOPLE WHO REALLY WANT TO KNOW AND UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE STUDY IT FOR YEARS TOO!
And thanks for forgetting me. It has become a bit tedious. The same BS all the time over and over ad nauseam ad infintumque.
I am tired having to defend having gone to HC or being bright or for studying the Bible. TIRED!
and it is the FRUIT of the spirit not fruitS.
@ Technician
Re
Well, Well, Well……
I am here reading a book named ‘The Mis-Education Of the Negro.’
It was written by Carter G Woodson (1875-1950). First edition and first printing 1933.
You are there reading or studying that which interests you. Hence you will KNOW about that which you studied for YOUR PLEASURE AND FOR YOU TO KNOW. Am I to be BS-ing at you because you know what you know and study what you study, as if you are an idiot?
I am an expert in my field, and you in yours.
I still waiting for someone to say something about Eschatology- the doctrine of the second coming.
@ Sargeant
Can you find “How lovely are they dwellings fair” from Brahm’s Requiem?
Or The chorus “And the Ransomed of the Lord shall return again and come with singing unto Zion” also from Brahm’s Requiem?
With all due respect, this is why I stay away from philosophical or religious blog threads.
This is akin to a green pitch, watered and rolled, with just an hour or two of sun.
And any batsman that comes out, will get plenty past their chin.
LOL…. man Crusoe you bad.
@GP..
Let me get a Sir Gary shot (analogy) on this lovely bouncy pitch that has been laid.
ROFLMAO!!
GP asks about Eschatology- the doctrine of the second coming.
Never knew dem such a word. Better wunna ask Bonny.
When I try to break the word down, I get the following –
Es – a radioactive transuranic element produced by bombarding plutonium with neutrons
So, some kind of bombardment
Chat – french for Cat
– Ology, study of a subject.
So, here goes.
Eschatology is the study of the bombardment of the cat.
But GP says it is the study of the second coming.
If I google the whole word, I get ‘The branch of theology that is concerned with the end of the world or of humankind”
Does not sound like coming, more like going.
The ‘Myth’ that the Biblical writings were all copied, from ancient Egyptian et al civilizations and just re-worked to suit the Hebrew narrative account, is nothing but a bunch of nonsense.
The following are just a few Archaelogical examples to dispel this tripe.
The first book of Moses, especially chapters 1-11, have been viewed as saga or legend, stories in a mythological rather than an *historical* setting. Recent archeological finds DO NOT favor the mythological stance. Here is a sampling of some of the *evidence*.
TABLE OF NATIONS.
“The Table of Nations in Genesis appears accurate and *unique* in ancient history, commenting on its accuracy, Albright says:”
“In view of the inextricable confusion of racial and national strains in the ancient near East, it would be quite impossible to draw up a simple scheme which would satisfy all scholars; no one system could satisfy all the claims made on the basis of ethnic predominance, ethographic diffusion, language, physical type, culture, historical tradition. The Table of Nations, *remains* an astonishingly *accurate* document.” (EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT, Historical Evidences For The Christian FAITH, Vol II, p.332) emphasis added.
NOTE: It is recognized by scholars to be the ONLY document of antiquity that is so amazingly accurate dealing with The Table of Nations.
Copied from whom?
Exodus – Leviticus.
The following examples provide additional confirmation for the *historicity* of the Pentateuchal accounts.
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.
“The antiquity of the *first* and *second* commandment of the Decalogue has found support in archeology. G. Ernest Wright states:’
“Equally surprising is the *prohibition* against images. ‘Thou SHALT NOT make unto thee a *graven* image or ANY ‘molton gods’ (Exodus 20: 4; 34: 17). This IS a significant *commandment* since there IS NOTHING like it in the world about. Archeology offers support for the *antiquity* of this commandment in Israel that a figure of *YAHWEH* has yet to be found in debris of an Israelite town. The interesting FACT is that *Canaanite* cities POSSESS quite a series of copper and bronze *figurines* of MALE *DEITIES*, most of which are identified with *BAAL*. But when we come to *Israelite* towns, the series gives out. Yet, the Israelites were familiar with such images, as we know from DENOUNCIATION in Deuteronomy, Jeremiah, Habbakuk, and Isaiah. In the city of Megiddo, for example, a tremendous amount of debris was moved from the FIRST five town-levels (all Israelite), and NOT a single example has been discovered.” (Ibid., 15/116.117- p. 334) emphasis added.
Now, to those who are trying to follow what is going on here; remember the *accuser* (poster) earlier above, explicitely accused the Bible writers of copying from the other ancient civilization, i.e., Egypt.
It IS a FACT, that rampant *polytheism* that IS, the belief IN, and WORSHIP of a multiplicity of *gods* WAS literally second ‘nature’ to ALL of these ancient civilizations, (Empires) bar NONE.
NOW, the Genesis account and the subsequently other written books of the Old Testament, i.e., Deuteronomy, Jeremiah, Habbakuk, and Isaiah, ALL under Divine inspiration, SPOKE strongly AGAINST any form of *IDOLATRY* for the Nation of Israel, in keeping with the *prohibition* Almighty God, HAD given to Moses for the Israelites:
“THOU SHALL *NOT* MAKE THEE A GRAVEN *IMAGE* OR ANY *MOLTON* GODS” ( Exodus 20: 4; 34: 17) Emphasis added.
THIS Commandment IS *foriegn* to the Egyptian culture of *IMAGE* worship, and likewise to ANY of the other ancient civilizations!
Therefore, the archeological findings, or (lack thereof) in ANY Israelite towns, where NONE of this IDOLATRY, *graven images* which ARE strictly FORBIDDEN by Yahweh, BUT, WAS rampant in Egyptian ‘cult’ worship, confirms that the Genesis narrative account and following, ARE genuine, historic FACTS.
Yes, later on in Israel’s history, AS accounted for in the Old Testament, the Jews disobediently went into idolatry, AS forbidden by Yahweh, and paid a terrible price for having done so. All recorded there in the OT for any serious inquirer to see. HONESTY, and true accounting IS the hall mark of God’s Word, the Bible. When His people SINNED, they were severely chastized by Almight God, as He IS a respector of NO PERSON!
More tomorrow on this issue!
Truth, WILL always win over deception, NO matter what!
GP
GP
Or this if you prefer
There is a profound difference between education and study.
You can be educated without studying but if you study you will become educated.
It is easy to pick out the freshly graduated university students who actually studied during their time at university from those who have a degree.
My observation is that it is usually after University that most people start to really study and connect the dots …… happened to me.
A child may not be educated but often has observed and studied deeply and we say is educated beyond his/her years.
An unlettered adult who observes and studies God’s creation is capable of insights way beyond what an educated person, who has not studied, is incapable of.
We call it wisdom.
It may be that the educated person will realise the privelege of meeting the unlettered person, recognise that those insights are worthy of being recorded and do so.
The unlettered adult cannot, but together, the insights can be made available for future generations by the two.
Psalm 19:
“The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork”
http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/14170/eVerseID/14170
The ancient Egyptians spent time looking at the Heavens, so too did the Greeks, the Chinese, and in South America likewise.
They all no doubt had their own creation stories, gods and interpretations of what they saw and no doubt sought God in their own ways.
None of these ancient peoples were educated as we think of education today, ….. and many could not even read or write.
Yet in their time they could read and understand the Glory of God in the heavens and see His handiwork and try to understand.
It was left to the educated to record events and insights which their study indicated were important.
……. it is highly unlikely that a school leaver or freshly graduated university student is going to start writing down what was shown to him/her with a view to preserving it for future generations!!!!
…. however as time goes on and some start to really study and connect the dots, they will.
Thanks Sargeant
Great!
@Zoe
““Equally surprising is the *prohibition* against images. ‘Thou SHALT NOT make unto thee a *graven* image or ANY ‘molton gods’ (Exodus 20: 4; 34: 17). This IS a significant *commandment* since there IS NOTHING like it in the world about.”
I have not taken the time to deal with you but I shall. The commandments were a plagiarism of the 42 negative confessions or the book of the coming forth by day or also called the 42 confessions of Ma’at found in the Book of the Dead. To say that one or two of the commandments were unique, is no concession at all considering the close resemblance of all the rest of the commandments to the confessions. The unique part (as you call it) only represents what was inserted by the plagiarists.
Just to read the confessions alone reveals a clear indication of life on earth. God was still around. God had cattle and property which men killed and stole. Even in the bible, the sons of god literally took as they pleased the daughters of men.
Note the use of the terms: “Sons” of “God” and then, “Daughters” of “Men”. Note the construction and that is because we are dealing with two different races of existence trying to integrate, causing havoc. Please note, we are dealing with god, not a fairy tale. They had sex with women. What does that tell you? That except for the fact that they are two races, both god and man were/are mortals and succumb to the same emotions and pleasures as any other living being. Most of all, they were flesh and blood.
This has implications for Mary, who either had sex with the angel or was artificially inseminated, otherwise there could have been no child. Plain and simple. Given that this too was a piece of plagiarism, I will not belabour the point, because it never happened.
Reading the descriptions of the gods is like reading a star trek script. These description were obviously not a figment of the imagination but a description of what they saw, within their limited understanding of terms.
Before I paste in the negative confessions, one other thing I want to address.
“It IS a FACT, that rampant *polytheism* that IS, the belief IN, and WORSHIP of a multiplicity of *gods* WAS literally second ‘nature’ to ALL of these ancient civilizations, (Empires) bar NONE.”
You see, to deny the existence of god as a race of people from somewhere else is to deny the experience of those who lived in those times. One of the reasons christians were persecuted and were being called blasphemous was the fact that they denied the existence of the Gods, claiming that they found the god of gods. This was at odds with the truth that prevailed and hence one could understand the outrage. It was not only wicked, but very deceptive and a lie that just could not be tolerated. They were the laughing stock.
Any rational person going through the 42 negative confessions would have to conclude that these persons were either deluded or were speaking the truth as they saw it.
Just check the descriptions for yourself. See what christianity was up against and what they eventually plagiarized:
1. Oh Wide-strider who come forth from Heliopolis, I have not done wrong.
2. Fire-embracer who come forth from Kheraha, I have not robbed.
3. Nosey who came forth from Hermopolis, I have not stolen.
4. Swallower of Shades who came forth from Kernet, I have not slain people.
5. Terrible of Face who came forth from Rosetjau, I have not destroyed the food offerings.
6. Double Lion who came forth from the sky, I have not reduced measures.
7. He-whose-Eyes-are-in-Flames who comes forth from Asyut, I have not stolen the god’s property.
8. Burning One who came forth backwards, I have not told lies.
9. Breaker of Bones who came forth from Memphis, I was not sullen.
10. He-of-the-Cavern who came forth from the West, I have not fornicated with the fornicator.
11. He-whose-Face-is-behind-him who came forth from his hole, I have not caused (anyone) to weep.
12. Anointed One who came forth from the chapel, I have not dissembled.
13. Hot-Legs who came forth at twilight, I have not transgressed.
14. He-who-is-Blood who came forth from the place of slaughter, I have not done grain-profiteering.
15. Eater of Entrails who came forth from the Council of Thirty, I have not robbed a parcel of land.
16. Lord of Truth who came forth from Hall of Two Truths, I have not discussed (secrets).
17. Strayer who came forth from Bubastis, I have brought no lawsuits.
18. Planter (?) who came forth from Heliopolis, I have not disputed at all about property.
19. Doubly Evil One who came forth from the Busirite Nome, I have not had intercourse with a married woman.
20. He-who-Sees-what-he-has-brought who cam forth from the House of Min, I have not (wrongly)
copulated.
21. He-who-is-over-the-Great-Ones who came forth from (?), I have not struck terror.
22. Demolisher who came forth from (?), I have not transgressed.
23. Proclaimer of Speech who came forth from Weryt, I have not been hot (tempered).
24. Youth who came forth from the Double Scepter Nome, I have not been neglectful of truthful words.
25. Dark One. who came forth from darkness, I have not cursed.
26. He-who-Brings-his-Offerings who comes forth from Asyut, I have not been violent.
27. Proclaimer of Voice who came forth from Wenis, I have not confounded (truth).
28. Possessor of Faces who came forth from Nedjefet, I have not been impatient.
29. Captain who came forth from Weten, I have not discussed.
30. Possessor of Two Horns who come forth from Asyut, I have not been garrulous about matters.
31. Nefertum who came forth from Memphis, I have not done wrong
32. I have not done evil.
33. He-who-does-not-(allow)-Surviviors who came forth from Busiris, I have not disputed the King.
34. He-who-Acts-as-he-Wishes who came forth from Antinaiopolis, I have not waded in water.
35. Thy who came forth from the Primordial Waters, My voice was not loud.
36. He-who-Prospers-the-Commom-People who came forth from Asyut, I have not cursed a god.
37. Uniter of Attributes who came forth from the Cavern, I have not made extollings (?).
38. Uniter of Good who came forth from the Cavern, I have not harmed the bread-ration of the gods.
39. Upraised of Head who came forth from the shrine, I have not stolen the Khenef-cakes from the Blessed.
40. He-who-Brings-his-Portion who came forth from the Hall of the Two Truths, I have not stolen Hefnu- cakes of a youth,
41. (nor) have I fettered the god of my town.
42. He-who-Brightens-the-Land who came forth from Faiyum (?), I have not slain sacred cattle.
Source: http://www.paganizingfaithofyeshua.netfirms.com/42_negative_confessions.htm
ROK
Doesn’t the book of the dead you have presented simply and eloquently show that early man was extremely conscious of sin and the need for forgiveness or justification from all sorts of different gods?
To come up with 42 different deities he had to make atonement to indicates the high level of awareness he had of his sin and guilt and the mortal fear he had of death.
What happened to him if he wasn’t able to make a negative confession to one of the deities …..
…… like suppose he couldn’t say he hadn’t disputed the King …
….. what would He-who-does-not-(allow)-Surviviors who came forth from Busiris do to him that he didn’t want done?
…. or if he had actally cursed a god …
…. what would He-who-Prospers-the-Commom-People who came forth from Asyut do to him?
… and if he had both disputed the King and cursed a god, which of the two deities would get first crack at him?
Doesn’t God’s Word provide The Way of removing man’s constant and universal fear of sin and death?
….. and It lives ….
…. first the Old Testament telling man that He, God is sending Somebody special at a specified time in the future ….
…. then the New Testament declaring the deed and that the Somebody is His only begotten Son ….
….. and promising He would be coming again to judge the quick and the dead.
There is nothing dead or negative about the Bible because it comes from God, not man.
Ah boy:
Looks like the fireworks started back a day early!
I think I can help out a bit on a few points:
1] The sad state of modern theology
I strongly recommend that you read Eta Linnemann’s devastating writings to understand what was done to the Bible in Germany in the 1700’s- 1800’s, then carried over as received wisdom from the duly anointed professors by C20.
I have a short note on the subject here [complete with a nice slice from Ms Linnemann], to outline how philosophical hyperskeptical impositions — some of which are echoed above — wreaked uncalled for and unjustifiable havoc on the current state of so-called mainline or liberal theology.
As to the “Egyptian” version of the now 100+ year old and very stale pagan copycat myths, these simply reflect the flip side of selective hyperskepticism: once one rejects the credible truth, one is forced to accept incredible myths as a substitute. [And ROK, did you do the readings I strongly suggested on this?]
And then when one uses belief in what is patently false to judge what one accepts, one ends up rejecting the objective truth.
FYI, ROK et al, the worldviews of Egyptian paganism and Hebraic theism are utterly diverse, so much so that there is no way the one could be derived from the other as a body.
There is overlap in the case of wisdom literature, i.e proverbs etc, as this was a common fund in the whole region. (Recall how the Queen of Sheba [now United Arab Emirates — hence the goods she brought in trade!] tested Solomon by asking him questions, as he had heard of the fame of his wisdom. And no, she was not queen of Ethiopia!)
As to the result, let’s just say that in 1831, Heinrich Heine warned as follows, in one of he most strikingly prophetic pieces of literature in modern ties, down to eagles in the air and lions of Africa:
_____________
>> Christianity — and that is its greatest merit — has somewhat mitigated that brutal German love of war, but it could not destroy it. Should that subduing talisman, the cross, be shattered [the Swastika, visually, is a twisted, broken cross . . .], the frenzied madness of the ancient warriors, that insane Berserk rage of which Nordic bards have spoken and sung so often, will once more burst into flame. …
The old stone gods will then rise from long ruins and rub the dust of a thousand years from their eyes, and Thor will leap to life with his giant hammer and smash the Gothic cathedrals. …
… Do not smile at my advice — the advice of a dreamer who warns you against Kantians, Fichteans, and philosophers of nature. Do not smile at the visionary who anticipates the same revolution in the realm of the visible as has taken place in the spiritual. Thought precedes action as lightning precedes thunder. German thunder … comes rolling somewhat slowly, but … its crash … will be unlike anything before in the history of the world. …
At that uproar the eagles of the air will drop dead, and lions in farthest Africa will draw in their tails and slink away. … A play will be performed in Germany which will make the French Revolution look like an innocent idyll. [Religion and Philosophy in Germany, conclusion]>>
______________
Apostasy has a price tag folks, a sobering price tag.
[ . . . ]
2] Debating authenticity of the Bible text
GP and Zoe above have given good summaries on the credible state of he Bible text, especially the NT. (Cf also discussions here and here for good first level introductions. Note broader FAQ here, Qs 45 – 91 are directly relevant to ROK’s concerns and others like him — video answers from lecture courses.)
It is significant to observe that those they corrected have not had the courtesy to acknowledge such correction on the actual state of the art on Bible text authenticity scholarship.
And there is in fact a famous test case on the preservation of the Heb text OT. The earliest masoretic documents we have are from about 900 AD. So, when the Dead Sea discoveries from 12947 on surfaced that was a big test.
Is 53 was a particular focus, and it turns out hat he substance across 1,000 years of copying from C2 BC to C10 AD, was preserved with extreme fidelity.
But then, since the Septuagint translation was made about C2 – 4 BC, we have had an independent check all along, which pointed in that direction.
But you see, the sort of themes that were sounded were not acceptable to the skeptics [too many of whom man pulpits and professorships of theology], so we instead see the execrable JEDP hypotheses and associated Hegelian dialectic dates – starting with notions like writing was not invented in Moshe’s day — treated as though they have any credibility.
3] Back on track . . .
This thread is about the second coming. One of the big clusters of Bible prophecy on this, that is being fulfilled as we speak is in Ezekiel 35 – 39.
The latest development on the rumours of wars front is that there is now concern that Iran — cf Persia in Ezek 38:5 — has been testing a second nuke trigger technology (again) since 2007. (And if you believe the bland Iranian declarations that the docs are simple forgeries meant to pressure Iran, I have some A-class commercial property in Plymouth M’rat, to sell you. Iran needs to come forth with serious counter evidence if this one is to be scotched in their favour.)
Okay for now
D
PS: Watch this video.
PPS: And this.
PPPS: Classical work on the background.
Egyptian Religion.
Any cursory knowledge of ancient Egyptian religious practices, reveals a virtual, fundamental, diametric, contradictory, *OPPOSITE* to that of the Bible, God’s Word, in the Old Testament, as given to the Hebrews through His prophet Moses, *emphatically* DECLARING as is repeadedly emphasized, throughout the Old Testament:
The Greatest Commandment.
“Now this IS the commandment and these are the statutes and judgments which the LORD, your GOD has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them in the *LAND* which you are crossing over to POSSESS, that you may fear the LORD your GOD, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, you and your son and your grandson, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged.”
“Therefore hear O ISRAEL, and be careful to observe it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply greatly as the LORD GOD of your fathers has promised you – a land flowing with milk and honey.”
“Hear O Israel: The LORD our God, the Lord is ONE.” (Deut 6: 1-4) emphasis added.
Now, the Ten Commandments given to Israel through Moses, ARE for the LIVING, to guide them in God’s Holy, Righteousness, to PROPER THEM, if they obey them.
Wheras, the so-called ‘Book of the DEAD’ is merely a collection of *spells* for the *afterlife*; and various “illustrated” guidebooks through the *mythological* Netherworld of Egyptian religion, inscribed in the tombs of the pharaohs (Books of Gates, Caverns, of What is in the Netherworld, etc.
There IS absolutely NO rational, moral, or other connection between what Almighty God, the *ONE* true and ONLY God of all Creation gave to Israel, through Moses, for the *LIVING* NOT DEAD people, whereas, the explicit case with the ‘Book of the DEAD’ the very title IS speaking to DEAD PEOPLE.
The Ten Commandments ARE Almighty God’s Holy instructions for the *LIVING* to obey and LIVE, in His Divine favor, so as NOT to end up DEAD, in the now, as well as in the hereafter, as there IS no second chance once you exit this earthly realm.
This IS precisely WHY, He said:
“And God spoke all these words, saying:’
“I AM the LORD your GOD, who brought you OUT of the land of Egypt, out of the house of BONDAGE.’
“You SHALL have NO OTHER *gods* before Me.’
“You shall NOT make for yourself a *craved* image – any LIKENESS of ANYTHING that is in heaven above, OR that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.”
“You shall NOT BOW DOWN to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your GOD, am a jealous God, visiting the *iniquity* of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who HATE ME.”
“But showing mercy to thousands, to those who LOVE Me, and keep MY COMMANDMENTS.” (Exodus 20: 1-6) emphasis added.
The absurd NONSENSE of ‘plagiarism’ from the 42 negative confessions of Ma’at found in the so-called Book of the DEAD, Yes, the *DEAD* is so preposterous, foolish, harebrained, that any rational person, would instantly see through this wacky nonsense.
To further reveal his ignorance, He stupidly says:
“To say that one or two of the Commandments were unique, is no concession at all, considering the close resemblance of all the rest of the commandments to the confession. The unique part (as you call it) only represents what was inserted by the plagiarists.”
How can the Ten Commandments, WHICH are dealing with the *LIVING* specifically instructing them, how to honour and trust Almighty God, and so NOT DIE in folly, SIN and IDOLATRY, by any rational mind, be a plagiarization, of the so-called ‘Book of the DEAD’ a mere collection of *spells* for the afterlife, from a life of rampant IDOLATRY, inscribed in the tombs of the pharaohs…what utter nonsene to put up on a public Blog…!!!
Keep it up man…it just exposes the ignorance of such thought…allowing the unvarnished TRUTH to be told.
Now, the OBVIOUS intent in God’s revelation to Israel, through Moses, and continuing throughout the Old Testament, IS, that there IS, One True and Living God, any other FALSE *gods* created and fabricated, in the minds of men, as WAS blatantly practiced in ALL pagan cultures of antiquity, WAS, and STILL is *IDOLATRY* which historically, brought utter RUINATION on each and EVERY one of these ancient civilizations, BAR NONE!
The *gods* of the Egyptians.
“Fundamentally, religion was very local in its practice and horizons. The Egyptians in each district tended to *worship* principlly their particular local *deities* rather than some greater figure of national or cosmic scope. As was commonly the case in ancient paganism, the *gods* of Egypt were in large measure the personifications of the powers of *nature* (e.g., fertility), and of natural phenonena (e.g., the Nile), and their supposed attributes (e.g., of falcon gods, BULL gods, etc). Some were cosmic (sun gods), and some where the embodiments of certain concepts (e.g.m Maat, goddess of ‘truth’ and right order).”
“Insofar as various animals, plants, etc, were respected as symbols of natural powers and of mysterious forces, these in turn were considered as manifestations of the *deities* (gods) concerned, even as vehicles of their presence – a role that came to be shared by *statues* and other *images* and by sacred animals (like the Apis *bull* of Ptah at Memphis, for example). This affected the representations of Egyptian *gods* in art. As early as the old Kingdom, the *gods* came to be conceived in basically human form. Some like Ptah or Osiris, were shown commonly in entirely human form. Others, by a kind of iconographic shorthand, appeared in human form, except for their heads, which were shown as the characteristic heads of the animals connected with particular *deities* concerned. Anubis appears with the head of a *jackal*, Sobk with that of a *crocodile*, Horus and Ra commonly with that of a *falcon*. Thoth with that of an *ibis*, etc. Sometimes, they might appear in more than one form. Amun of Thebes was generally in purely humsn guise, but could have a *ram’s* head.” (The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible, Vol II, pp. 248, 249) emphasis added.
The above is just a glimmer at the *gross* rampant IDOLATRY of ancient Egyptian religious practices.
Now, given the fact, that the Hebrews were delivered from Egypt, where they obviously exposed to SUCH idolatry, a multiplicity of FALSE *gods* is it any wonder that Almight God, GAVE them such stern, righteous COMMANDMENTS, NOT to worship any other god but HIM!
And, to brazenly suggest, that the Ten Commandments of Almighty God, were plagairised from the so-called “Book of the DEAD’ inscribed in tombs of pharaohs…shows how far such mislead, deceived people will go to twist, convolute and malign the TRUTH of God’s Word!
Bring it on man…continue to expose your folly, foolishness, and ignorance…in the FACE of facts, truth, and EVIDENCE!
Dictionary
Thank you for the first PS video which I just finished watching.
@ David
I would like here to say a bit on concordances, as there have been some fools who have been scoffing on BU about their use all year. The Bible does teach that Paul did not suffer fools gladly- nor should we.
Many bibles have a concordance. It might be a short simple concordance, but a concordance all the same. such simple concordances might list a few interesting words that interest folk, and are an aid as to where to find the verses that contain those words.
Maybe you forget where to find the verse where Jesus says that he os the door.
So you look to see if your Bible has DOOR listed in its little concordance and you will find thats its listed thus
DOOR I am the door……. John 10:9
So a simple concordance as occurs at the back of many Bibles is indeed often a great help.
However, from age 16, I learned that there were three makor Concordances that available to the would be Bible student.
We were taught that there is 1- CRUDEN’S Concordance (said to be for the crude) which is a useful book like a dictionary with a fairly wide selection of words used in the Bible with the places where those words are incorporated into a text.
Again you need to find exactly where to find the text of a scripture you heard somewhere, and you dont know where to find it—–Crudens will help.
Then there is 2- YOUNG’S ANALYTICAL CONCORDANCE. This is useful as a topical text book, much like say NAVE’s topical text book. This might be used like Crudens in a sense. However, in addition it tends to group concepts or topics rather than just words.
e.g grace, redemption, hope, faith, etc
Finally there is 3 STRONG’S EXHAUSTIVE CONCORDANCE OF BIBLE WORDS, which lists evertime a word is used in the Bible.
In addition, it gives to each word, what is now called a Strong’s number, which is a number that indicates which Hebrew or Greek word is used in the original text that is translated by that word in the English.
Strong is said to have taken over 50 years to complete this work, which has proven very useful for serious preachers, pastors and teachers and students of the Word.
Question: Do you need a concordance to read and understand the Bible.
OF COURSE NOT.
But using a concordance is very helpful when you quickly want to look up the location of a particular text.
I will share an example of an occasion when my Strong’s helped me.
I was doing an essay in my MMin program in a Bible Geography Course.
The challenge was GOD WAS ABLE TO TAKE ISRAEL FROM EGYPT BUT HE WAS UNABLE TO TAKE EGYPT OUT OF ISRAEL. Discuss with reference to 30 scriptures.
Well with a sheet of paper and pencil, I jotted down all the relevant references to Egypt. Then I classified them into three time periods thus
a- CAMP Exodus 15- Deuteronomy
b) CONQUEST Joshua Judges Ruth to 1 Samuel 8
c- CROWN 1 Samuel 8- 2 Chronicles pluse the PRE-exhilc prophets……….and presto my essay had taken shape complete with references.
Now you may not study the Bible for pleasure as I have often done. And youmight not study it much.
But if you seriously study the Word of God as many many folk do, you need a Strong’s. Because it will save you tons of time. LOL
If you dont study seriously, or search the scriptures seriously. you can do with out it.
I hope this helps explain what a concordance is about, and that it enlightens the darkness of some of the stupid scoffers.
Can I tell you a secret? Doctors carry in thier coat pockets little hand books that help them much as a Stron’s concordance does. But I have never heard any one scoff.
There is AIDS to CLINICAL MEDICINE .
There is the whole series LECTURE NOTES IN ENT LECTURE NOTES IN THIS LECTURE NOTES IN THAT according to specialty or sub specialty that can fit in the white coat pocket.
There are little pocket books to remnd you of normal values for lab tests etc etc etc Never heard or saw a person scoff when a doctor used these.
But if you mention the Word concordance on BU………..you can hear certain jackasses BRAY VERY LOUDLY….. because they know every thing and can remember everything………or to be more accurately THEY ARE LIARS! AND DOWNRIGHT IGNORANT!
As you study, you pick up little odd things that help you when you have to share the Word.
Here is an example
If in the New Testament
Whenever you see the word “if” in the New Testament, it can mean one of four things.
• First Class Condition. This is the condition of reality. (If, and it is assumed to be true). This is what Satan used when He was tempting Jesus: “If you are the Son of God (and I know that you are)…” (Matthew 4:3).
• Second Class Condition. This is the condition of unreality. (If, and it is assumed not to be true). This was also used by Satan in the temptations of Jesus when he said, “If you fall down and worship me (and I know that you will not)…” (Matthew 4:9).
• Third Class Condition. This is the condition of potential. (If, and maybe it is true and maybe it is not).
This is used in I John 1:9 where we are told, If we confess our sins (maybe we will and maybe we will not).
• Fourth Class Condition. This is the condition of rarity. (If it is so, but it probably is not). This is very rare in the New Testament. It is only used a handful of times.
One such time in when Peter speaks of Christian persecution: But EVEN IF you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. (1 Peter 3:14).
When we look at these examples in our English translation, it is not always easy to tell the different types of clauses apart. But in the Greek language, each one has a separate form.
Certainly only A FOOL thinks he can figure this out by just reading the KJV.
Here is a useful note on Bible Marking –
By: D.L. Moody , one of the greatest preachers that ever lived
from Golden Counsels by Dwight L. Moody, 1899.
An old writer said that some books are to be tasted, some to be swallowed, some to be chewed and digested. The Bible is one that you can never finish with.
It is like a bottomless well; you can always find fresh truth gushing forth from its pages. “No Scripture,” said Spurgeon, “is exhausted by a single explanation. The flowers of God’s garden bloom not only double, but sevenfold; they are continually pouring forth fresh fragrance.” Hence the great fascination of constant and earnest Bible study. I thank God there is a height in the Book that I have never been able to reach, a depth that I have never been able to fathom.
Hence also the necessity of marking your Bible. Unless you have an uncommon memory, you cannot retain the good things you hear.
If you trust to your ear alone, they will escape you in a day or two; but, if you mark your Bible, and enlist the aid of your eye, you will never lose them. The same applies to things you read.
Every one ought to study the Bible with two ends in view,– his own growth in knowledge and grace, and passing it on to others.
We ought to have four ears,– two for ourselves, and two for other people. My Bible is worth a good deal to me because I have so many passages marked that, if I am called upon to speak at any time, I am ready.
We ought to be prepared to pass around heavenly thoughts and truths, just as we do the coin of the realm.
Bible-marking should be made the servant of memory; a few words will recall a whole sermon.
It sharpens the memory, instead of blunting it, if properly done, because it gives prominence to certain things that catch the eye, which by constant reading you get to learn by heart.
It helps you to locate texts. It saves preachers and class-leaders the trouble of writing out notes of their addresses. Once in the margin, always ready.
There is a danger, however, of overdoing a system of marking, and of making your marks more prominent than the Scripture itself. If the system is complicated it becomes a burden, and you are liable to get confused. It is easier to remember the texts than the meaning of your marks.
The simplest way to mark is to underline the words, or to make a stroke alongside the verse. Another good way is to go over the printed letters with your pen, and make them thicker. The word will standout like heavier type. [For example], mark “only” in Psalm 62 in this way.
When any word or phrase is often repeated in a book or chapter, put consecutive numbers in the margin over against each text. Thus, “the fear of the LORD” in Prov. 1:7, 29, and so on.
Number the ten plagues in this way. In the second chapter of Habakkuk are five “woes” against five common sins.
When there is a succession of promises or charges in a verse, it is better to write the numbers small at the beginning of each promise.
Thus, there is a sevenfold promise to Abraham in Gen. 12:2, 3, “1I will make of thee a great nation, 2and I will bless thee, 3and make thy name great, 4and thou shalt be a blessing, 5and I will bless them that bless thee, 6and curse him that curseth thee, 7and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.”
In Prov. 1:22, we have 1simple ones, 2scorners, 3fools.
Put a cross in the margin against things not generally observed. For example, the law regarding women’s wearing men’s clothes, and regarding bird’s-nesting, in Deut. 22:5, 6; the sleep of the poor man and of the rich man compared, Eccl. 5:12.
On blank pages at the beginning and end of your Bible, jot down texts to answer the various kinds of difficulties that you meet in talking to people in the inquiry-room: “can’t hold out,” “too great a sinner,” “fear persecution,” etc.
Also on these blank pages write short Bible readings and outlines of sermons.
In addition to the examples already given, I find it helpful to mark,–
1. Scripture references. Opposite Gen. 1:1 write, “Through faith. Heb. 11:3,” because there we read, “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God.” Opposite Gen. 28:2 write, “An answer to prayer, Gen. 35:3.” Opposite Matt. 6:33 write, “1 Kings 17:3” and “Luke 10:42,” which give illustrations of seeking the kingdom of God first. Opposite Gen. 37:7 write, “Gen. 50:18,” which gives the fulfillment of the dream.
You can connect the prophets with the historical books, the epistles with the Acts, in this way.
2. Notes to recall a sermon, story, or hymn. Against Ps. 119:59,60, I have written, “The prodigal son’s epitaph.” The recalls John McNeill’s sermon on those texts.
3. Railway connections; that is, connections made by fine lines running across the page. In Dan. 6, connect “will deliver” (v.16), “able to deliver” (v.20), and “hath delivered” (v.27).
In Ps. 66, connect “Come and see” (v.5) with “come and hear” (v.16).
4. At the beginning of every book, a short summary of its contents, something like the summary given in some Bibles at the head of chapters.
5. Key-words for books and chapters. Genesis is the book of beginnings; Exodus, of redemption. The key-word of the first chapter of John is “receiving”; second chapter, “obedience”; and so on.
6. Any text that marks a religious crisis in life. I heard Mr. Meyer preach on 1 Cor. 1:9, and he asked his hearers to write in their Bibles that they were that day “called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Do not buy a Bible that you are unwilling to mark and use. An interleaved Bible gives the most room for notes and suggestions.
Be precise and concise in your marking; for instance, Neh. 13:18, “A warning from history.”
Never mark anything because you saw it in the Bible of some one else. If it does not come home to you, if you do not understand it, do not put it down.
Never pass a nugget without trying to grasp it. Then mark it down.
In my life I have found that I have learned a lot from folk WHO HAVE DONE SOMETHING
PEOPLE WHO HAVE OBVIOUSLY STUDIED AND SEARCHED THE SUBJECT they seek to expound.
I have learned nothing from barking dogs and braying jackasses or FOLK WHO THINK THEY KNOW because they understand a few things superficially.
Dr. David L. Cooper’s “Golden Rule of Interpretation” says: “When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the context indicate clearly otherwise …. Avoid every effort to force upon the Scriptures a meaning that is strained and unnatural. Never detach a passage from its context, but always study it carefully in the light of its setting.”
This is a great rule for Bible study.
Add to that A TEXT TAKEN OUT OF ITS CONTEXT IS A PRETEXT!
Also scripture must be compared with other scripture.
You cant make a doctrine on one scripture.
@ GP…
Does it matter who mocks you, Zoe or Dictionary?
Really, does it?
You have always said and believe that as long as you spread the word that they will be those who will scoff and mock.
Knowing this, why do you all get so flustered at the same mockers, knowing full well that they will come out to attack you?
If you know what and who you are as a person and your purpose then why let the detractors rile you up so?
This is a public blog and you will have many different of opinions as we go along, who want to learn let them, who don’t, that is also their right.
Live and let live man, at the end of the day we all have our crosses (no pun intended) to carry and our respective masters and creators to answer to. You cant save everyone and everyone don’t want to be saved.
Back on topic:
In light of Ezek 38 et al, have a look here.
Then, think about how many of us in our region and wider civlisation have been operating over the past decade or so.
And, if you think to dismiss, think again.
And, again.
And, before dismissively or angrily — why the anger, friend? –brushing these aside, think yet again.
D
PS: John: welcome. Quite a lectures collection.
PPS: T, think about the rhetorical agenda afoot in that mockery and worse; and on where it ends up if unchecked — naked incivility.
The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.