Follow an interesting discussion on Mercola.com about the Swine Flu pandemic.
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No, Hopi. I have no references. I’ve given you some basic information. I don’t aim or claim to give all details for everything here.
The point is that yes, there’s a purpose, and no, it’s not toxic. I would hope that you wouldn’t trust my word on that, my being an anonymous voice over the internet, but I would also hope that my words could be food for thought and the seeds of further investigation.
I would hope that you’d be just as skeptical of (other) anti-vaccers as you are of my claims.
🙂
@Anonymous – Submitted on 2009/10/26 at 9:14pm
Why dont you sent Dr. Mercola an email with the challenge?
Wow..this vaccine is sooo good for you that “poisoning charges” have been filed in France against the vaccination campaign…Big Pharma is not pleased at all with all those warehouses of poison stockpiled not being able to be shipped to the sheeple world wide…cuddear.
http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1383%3Apoisoning-attempt-charges-filed-against-french-qswine-fluq-mass-vaccination-campaign&catid=3%3Anewsflash&lang=en
They are getting desperate..there is talk of shutting down certain websites now “when” not “if” this pandemic situation escalates…WHAT PANDEMIC..THERE IS NO PANDEMIC..THERE IS FEAR MONGERING BY THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA WHO WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE THE POISON..BUT SURELY NO PANDEMIC..THEY ARE GETTING DESPERATE SO LOOK FOR MORE FOLLY TO OCCUR VERY SOON.
http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1384%3Aqpopukar-sites-may-have-to-be-blockedq-in-the-case-of-a-pandemic-according-to-hls&catid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en
Remember people we live in the tropics..plenty of sunshine..no flu season over here so when DR.St.John and Ferdinand come telling us to come get our shots you know what to tell them because most likely they will be following protocol blindly because it would be orders they get from the CDC who by the way up to this day are not credible and take orders from the US military..THAT IS A FACT.Oh look doctors in Sweden told to be hush hush or else..signs of desperation..boy i tell you..lol
http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1347%3Asceptical-swedish-doctors-forbidden-to-talk-about-the-mass-vaccinations&catid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en
David said:
“You know BU has a reputation for shooting down conspiracy theories and the like.”
…?
Anon ‘Vaccines carry risks of complications and side effects, but natural immunity and vaccine-free communities come at a cost in human suffering. As far as I can tell, the risks and costs of vaccines are tiny compared to the risks and costs of not using them’
BUT, the main question, posed here a few weeks ago and no doubt must have been posed by others worldwide, is WHY is the WHO pushing this so heavily, when the percentage of persons critically ill has been so low, compared to the ‘regular’ flu???
This question is the real crux of the matter.
Does the WHO or CDC have convincing analysis that this virus is going to mutate into something nastier, rivalling the 1918 outbreak?
If yes, tell us and SHOW US and the rest of the medical community who can agree/ disagree.
Why the cloak and dagger?
If not, then why the rush to vaccinate against something apparently not much more deadly than the regular flu, certainly on a percentage basis?
This is not medical science, one does not need a medical degaree to understand this, this is basic commonsense and management!
What is their position?
Without this, really, to the ordinary man, based on current evidcen, it looks too much like deliberate diversion of money into drug companies hands to pump the stock market up. Simple.
And in refuting this, show me where percentage populatio wise that the vaccine is so necessary?
Is this a vaccine to protect people or a vaccine to prevent the ill stock market from getting worse?
I have no problem with a vaccine per se, IF the evidence is explained and published properly.
And we think that we in Barbados have a transparency and accountability issue??????
What are the FACTS?
Does ANYONE know except the WHO?
Does the WHO even know?
These are basic question, as I said, one does not need a medical degree to ask these and expect reasonable answers.
Crusoe, influenza is a deadly disease that kills thousands yearly (seasonal ‘flu) and has killed millions during particular surges (“epidemic ‘flu”).
That’s why the WHO is making such a big deal.
It’s a difficult issue. Will this H1N1 continue to flare into a full-blown killer of thousands or millions? Or will it fizzle out?
We don’t really know. But public health authorities feel that they can’t wait until after the flare, after thousands have died, to prepare.
I can understand that decision.
“Is this a vaccine to protect people or a vaccine to prevent the ill stock market from getting worse?”
BOTH.
@Anonymous……………..Come on stop lying! You straight-up yahooed that! That’ why you can’t have any references.
@Crusoe……..This is way bigger than propping up that stock market. This is about CULLING the population!
Video: Girl Gets “Flu” Shot & Now Can Only Walk Backwards
Get the shot everyone!!!!!! lol
Cuddear..Obama just doesn’t feel like letting his two precious daughters get inoculated but want you and yours to get the jab..hmmm.Even Ron Paul can’t understand the double standards here,what is good for the goose should be good for the gander ..right???
http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-questions-why-obama-daughters-havent-taken-swine-flu-vaccine/
Can Anon tell me why there are two vaccines,one mercury and squalene free for the elites and the other with adjuvants added for the people(sheeple) or maybe Dr.St.John or Ferdinand will like to come on BU and state their case now before they look really stupid to the Bajan public in another couple of weeks when the CDC sends us our batch
Where is Not Saved..did he take his Swine Flu shot and can’t walk forward either.lol..sorry that shot was the Seasonal Flu shot..where are you guy i still want to know the ingredients in the vaccine administered in 1918..i know them i just want to know if you know..lol.
Americans are bursting at the seams with theories concerning the national emergency that Obama called on friday check out some of the comments in this thread.It is 6 pages long and probably will get longer.
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=141410.0
I’m not writing an academic dissertation here. I don’t have all the answers.
I’m just trying to share information based on my own imperfect understanding, and my personal/ non-academic research, much of it online. Everything that I say is based in information accessible to the public– no cloak & daggers or “special information”.
People does be reeeeal quick to accuse yuh. Why they got to be so?
@David:
“Why dont you sent Dr. Mercola an email with the challenge?”
That doesn’t further my goals– sharing information with the public, and encouraging critical thinking, leading to better understanding of the issues.
I also enjoy intelligent, non-hostile discussion.
@Crusoe,
I was thinking further about your post. It’s interesting, because I agree with you– and I disagree.
I agree with you that doctors and health administrators, both at the individual and the institutional level, seem to have been doing a piss-poor job of talking about this issue.
In all fairness to them, though, most people (including many doctors) don’t have a very good grasp of important principles involved. Many doctors are very, very skilled at diagnosis and risk management at the individual-patient level, but don’t translate their knowledge well to risk-management at the community or population level– without even knowing that they’re ignorant. And public health administrators are likely to be the most knowledgeable, but the most disconnected from the concerns of everyday people.
Non-medical personnel are often grappling with this issue without even the most basic facts or skills– and are sometimes fighting an uphill battle against fears, misunderstandings, or preconceived notions that can be counterproductive.
You can talk about common sense, but true common sense cannot function on a foundation of of panic, incorrect information, poor understanding of basic principles, and poor logic.
You ask “WHY is the WHO pushing this so heavily, when the percentage of persons critically ill has been so low, compared to the ‘regular’ flu?”
The answer to that is two-fold; first of all, it’s NOT true as a blanket statement that the percentage of persons severely affected is lower. It has varied from community to community and country to country– and from person to person, depending on their risk factors. For a severely obese, pregnant, asthmatic 25-year old, the personal risks associated with this H1N1 are immense. For a 55 year old, fit, healthy person, the personal risk is tiny.
Secondly: Mexico. The fact that the most deadly outbreak was the first, has assuredly has shaped the public health response to this disease. No-one wants a repeat of the Mexico scenario. No-one wants to have people dying around them, with accusations flying that they didn’t take precautions against predictable death.
That’s the nature of bureaucracy– to plan and to fuss and to spend money preparing for contingencies that non-bureaucrats have the luxury of not having to worry about. A 10% likelihood is “probably won’t happen, I don’t have to worry about it” for many people; it’s an “important contingency that requires preparation” for a health planner.
When you understand these points, it changes the whole basis for your questions. I see no cloak-and-dagger. All the information I’ve presented is available on the web. It’s just being drowned out by the hysteria– a standard day’s work for the mainstream media. Our hysteria lines the pockets of big business; our fear feeds the machine.
Prevention is cheaper than cure, though. Doctors and hospitals stand to make far more money from a major ‘flu outbreak with more ill people, than they do from promoting ‘flu vaccines.
That said, though, I do agree with you that the American response in particular is affected by the need to keep going with no major interruptions to “business as usual”. Vaccinated people won’t have to take sick leave. Vaccinated children won’t need their mothers to take vacation days to be home with them. Quarantines aren’t necessary if most of the population are vaccinated. Vaccines are being pushed not only to avoid sickness and death, but to avoid the potential economic and social disruptions that come with them.
Here’s an interesting essay on the same point that’s been making the rounds:
http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/14/thinking-hard-about-the-flu-vaccine/
One thing that worries me about our own local situation, though; as far as I know, Queen Elizabeth Hospital is always full-to-overcrowded, and we don’t have enough intensive care space there to service even normal day-to-day needs.
How on earth would we manage even a 10% or 20% increase in admissions due to influenza? Would such an increase lead to more deaths due to further overcrowding, or sick people not getting the care they need?
And should such considerations influence public health planning with regard to vaccinations? Should countries with lots of extra hospital capacity be less aggressive in encouraging vaccinations than countries with zero extra hospital capacity?
Dr Gary Null on vaccines Oct 13, 2009
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
David I don’t know what I did that the video embedded in my last post. The link for Part 3 is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAgWO2yq1k8&NR=1
@Anonymous……….”People does be reeeeal quick to accuse yuh. Why they got to be so?” I doan really know maybe it got sumting to do with blow back. Ya know like when ya say ya only intrusted in FACTS then ya post all kinda opinions here [saying ya don’t know whey ya gleaned it from] hoping that peeeple would accept it, den come to find out that some of us ain’t simple!
That’s wha happen to you.
Not to worry though, can’t say ya didn’t try! Next time ya gotta come right n’ keep it REAL!
Gary Null knows the deal. He has been on to them for a long time!
@Hopi
Gary Null:
http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/null.html
I hope that you’re willing to question them as much as you’re willing to question me; that you are as aggressive in questioning their sources and references as you are mine.
It doesn’t seem that you are.
Note that Gary Null sells product on his website, and thus must be monitored for conflicts of interest with regard to his advice, just as doctors in conventional medicine should be.
I guess, Hopi, what I would say is that even where I have ventured into opinion, I have clearly posted the factual basis for that opinion, and have not based my positions on fear or hostility.
(This ain’ nuh blowback, just another internet blowhard…)
People real quick to call people names who disagreeing with them, but people who agree getting all kinda praise-up bout how them “know the deal” an’ thing.
Jus’ because you disagree wid’ me doan ‘mean I lying, hear? Listen to what I tellin’ you…
@Anonymous………….Look where I called you out….after you said you couldn’t give any references. Yet I was able to yahoo that exact quote you pasted regarding N-9. Are you really being honest?
I ain’t mad at cha nor I ain’t hating on ya! We awight!
ST GEORGE’S, Grenada, CMC – The Grenada government on Tuesday urged Caribbean Community (CARICOM) countries to exercise caution when using the vaccine to treat the Influenza A (H1N1) virus after reports that it could be linked to a deadly nerve disease.
One Caribbean government has “some sense”.
Actually I meant may have some sense! We’ll have to wait and see.
@Hopi:
Wait, da’ is how you does move, shabby so? Got talk ’bout how people “Lying”, and nex’ minute yuh skinnin’ teet’ wid “We good! we good!”
We does doan’ live so where I come from, hear? I ain’ know wha’ part you from.
I still ain’ got no scientific references fuh yuh, and I still doan’ know how you come to be flingin’ accusation, far less skinnin’ yuh teet’ afterward. The only dishonesty mussee a dishonest piece o’ grit in yuh eye. Clear it out, and then come back an’ talk wid’ big people.
For what it’s worth, none of the ideas I have expressed are original research by me. You will find everything I have said elsewhere. Taking that as evidence of my dishonesty seems… strange.
As our resident expert, GP, states in the Medical Corner of this blog, things are unclear and opinions are divided.
Make up your own mind after doing the research.
Don’t ever be persuaded one way or the other by these somewhat partisan posts.
Your family’s health (and the nation’s) is too important to be left to uninformed choices.
Read, quantify and choose.
Never rely on the advice of others who may be working on another agenda, whichever side of the argument.
Anonymous 1:59pm.
Very well thought out and explained post and reply.
Points taken.
You have raised an issue so profound that it is crazy you even had to. That of ‘what of Barbados’ re QEH?
When the swine flu first appeared, I wondered if certain Polyclinics would be made ready as emergency centres.
That is probably the only way to manage this now.
BUT we go back to a point that you agree on, the issue of communication, as any emergency plan should be communicated to those affected i.e. doctors, nurses AND the public, in advance!
That we have no clue of what the plan is, is in itself quite unsettling.
I reiterate, one of the key things of an emergency plan is the advance knowledge of the process to be followed and that specifically includes the public.
Doctors should know their role, their limitations, how the interact with patients and family.
Nurses should also.
The public should know exactly what to do if someone falls ill, what to do to initiate quarantine etc (i.e. call xxxxxxn number and go to xxxxxx polyclinic, do not mix with others).
This should already have been communicated to all of us.
But……
Note that the above actions would only be initiated after a specific ’emergency’ has been declared by the authorites, my point was on the lack of communication of such plan.
@Anonymous……….You wanted me to go long wid your 1/2 truths. You said you were coming with facts, then you know that you yahooed someone’s opinion and then said you don’t have any references. You know that you were straight up LYING. If you want to take the damn pus go and take it. But don’t come on here pretending that you KNOW cause you just make shit up as you go along. And don’t fool yaself to think that i skinnin my teeth wid ya. I said we awight because you have proven that you are bluffing and you don’t know shit, so there’s no need for me to fight with you. I see thru your bluff and LIES. So don’t get carried away! You run along now.
@Hopi
What did I say that was not true?
@Hopi, I think you’re too caught up in your conviction that I MUST be lying, to even give fair consideration to the fact that I might be telling the truth. If that’s the case, further conversation is pointless. Frankly, I don’t even understand what lie you claim I’m telling. Your accusation makes no sense to me. I don’t get it!
@Crusoe, thanks. 🙂
“You said you were coming with facts, then you know that you yahooed someone’s opinion and then said you don’t have any references. You know that you were straight up LYING. ”
I’m still here trying to understand your position.
I’m not a virologist or an epidemiologist. I have supplemented my knowledge of the issue with information from various websites. I’ve doublechecked where I can, and measured all against my knowledge and understanding of the science involved.
In your view, as I understand it, honesty would have required that I maintain a list of websites consulted, so I could provide this list for you on request.
Don’t you think that’s an unreasonable standard for blog comments?
And if asked for a list of references, given that I have no list, how is “No, I don’t have any” a dishonest answer?
Seriously, Hopi. It sounds like you hold some people to a very low standard, but others to a very high standard. It’s worth addressing. I tried to be light and humorous in my answers to you, but… you’re just being unreasonable. I’ve offered you honesty, good humour, and respect, and taken your answers in good faith. It’s only reasonable for you to do the same in return.
@Anonymous………. go back and read your post @ October 23 @2:25 pm & 3:14 pm…….
What are you light and humorous about? A matter of life and death? You are a damn bull-shitter, you are bluffing your way thru a serious matter. And you are right further conversation with me is pointless, so move along.
Real scientists that practice true science have found natural immunity to be the best cure for this virus especially in people over 60..but wicked people that have an agenda want you to get the shot.
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/195691-Exposure-to-Earlier-Flu-Viruses-Provides-Many-with-Natural-Immunity-to-H1N1-Scientists-Find
I can’t blame Americans And Canadians for following their governments blindly though,they have been exposed to huge amounts of chemtrails,poisoned food,poisoned water..their brains are turning to mulch,here the sheeple line up for their poison shots.
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/195684-Canada-Historic-vaccine-rollout-begins-as-flu-ramps-up
Well at least some doctors are awake.
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/195668-Doctors-speak-out-about-H1N1-vaccine-dangers
NY Times Oct 28, 2009 – City Parents Opting Out of Swine Flu Vaccine
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/nyregion/29vaccine.html?_r=2&ref=health
Someone e-mail this video to Dr.St.John and Ferdinand if they know how to contact them…thank you.
Really..why would anyone go through so much trouble to stick a person with a needle if it was good for you or is there another agenda…something is going on in France.
http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1455%3Apolice-in-france-stop-cars-search-for-weapons-as-opposition-to-swine-flu-jab-and-government-grows&catid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en
Although a mother in Ohio clearly stated that she did not give consent for her son to be inoculated at school these wicked people went ahead and gave the woman’s child the jab..you see why people will have to get violent and resist the scum that are pushing this campaign of mass Genocide on the worlds population.
http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1457%3Achild-in-ohio-given-swine-flu-vaccine-in-spite-of-mother-refusing-consent&catid=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en
Sir Liam Donaldson..the Chief Medical Illuminati Officer in England has the guts to call people who willfully do no want the poison put in their bodies “EXTREMISTS” can you believe it..soon you will be a terrorist if they have their way..Lord come for your world.
http://www.infowars.com/england-chief-medical-officer-calls-h1n1-vaccine-resistors-extremists/
The Elite that push the One World Government are getting desperate..their Mass Genocide agenda is crumbling because of resistance to the vaccine..soon they will release a deadlier strain(or make us believe they did) to make worldwide populations run and take the poison shot..resist to the end and protect your families..don’t follow the sheeple ..your Government is telling you untruths if they are pushing this agenda and are most likely taking orders from the Elites..be aware of wolves in sheep clothing.
The Americans are being bombarded the worst though..first they steal your money in the form of a banks bailout,then to make you forget they stole your money they introduce Swine Flu to make you fearful of death..boy your Government really likes you..I hope David Thompson is not following protocol because if he does not stand up for the rights of Bajans against Global Vampires he to will watch his demise unfold.
More food for thought.
http://www.youtube.com/user/GaryNullTV#p/a
CASTRIES, St Lucia, CMC – The Ministry of Health says it will discontinue specialised flu clinics on Monday, even as it is advising residents to prepare for a second wave of the Influenza A (H1N1) virus, commonly referred to as Swine Flu.
This is interesting!
WASHINGTON – Independent health advisers will begin monitoring safety of the swine flu vaccine today, an extra step the government promised in this year’s unprecedented program to watch for possible side effects.
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