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Submitted by Looking Glass

debtAnother deficit budget is hardly surprising. Given the economic structure and reliance on fickle tourism and construction more deficit budgets will likely continue. The net effect will be to expand the gap between happiness and misery. There is a correlation between public and private debt in a population whose mental set permits lavish consumption and government unrestrained borrowing and spending, moreso when personal saving is insufficient to finance government spending. The inability of governments to generate surplus will result in more debt, drag us deeper in the red and on to perdition.

Our predicament reminds me of Marlowโ€™s Dr. Faustus, a man of learning who, longing to possess the treasures of Nature, sells his soul to Mephistopheles (the Devil) for 24 years. In the last couple decades we sold the country for not much more than a seat at the beggarโ€™s table and the retention of power. Today we are at the bottom of the table, mega billions in debt and the lenders/givers are taking over. Hell has no limits.

The road to perdition (deficits, debt, corruption, unprincipled regimes etc.) didnโ€™t happen overnight. As previously stated, it is not the direct result of the current world financial crisis. Nor is it the consequence of a natural business cycle. Past regimes forewent the exacting standards of fiscal discipline. They forgot that economic prosperity depends on the productivity with which national resources are employed, and indulged in non-income generating and short term employment generation projects. In the process they failed to keep programme spending to real per capita terms, i.e. increase spending by no more than inflation. The current world crisis merely exposed our โ€˜limitationsโ€™ and hasten our socio-economic decline.

Both parties are guilty of, among other things, an absence of smart thinking, moreso the BLP. But it is hypocritical to blame the current administration for the current condition, even though they are guilty of, shall we say, โ€˜errors in judgmentโ€™ and are savvy short.

Debt increases when pre and post election promises are to be fulfilled from an empty trough. The situation was made worst when the loan promised by a sister island fell through (Why the loan didnโ€™t materialise is another story) Had the PM apprised the people about the horrendous national debt and the cost it would have given him some breathing space and a less costly budget. Bajans would have a good reason to revise their expectations. Instead people are kept in the dark and covered with mulch like mushrooms. Why keep the debt a secret? Is it because of something to hide, protection of others or externally dictated? Failure to apprise the people set in motion a shining system of vanities and illusions as distant from the truth as Pluto.

The national debt (the sum total of โ€œall-budgetโ€ loan guarantees and contingencies) is more than trebled that stated by the last regime, and is a lien against the people and the as yet unborn. Polished words and self-indulgent regurgitation of utterances of those thought to be significant, like dubious accounting, obscures reality and deepens the inevitable in the form of a dismal decade of distress and discontent. Maybe like Dante we need to go further into exile (perdition) to learn just how salt is the bread and how steep the stairs.

We seem to have a collective delusion, insisting that government has or should have the where-with-all to supply the ingredients for a grand, conspicuous lifestyle and prodigal extravagance to which we have a right. We believe the external world has a natural right to provide the necessary ingredients for a greedy lifestyle. The delusion is justified by blaming the external โ€˜environmentโ€™ for failing to accommodate us. We fail to recognise the incidence of limited resources, the limits to growth, and that growth per se does not constitute โ€˜well-being.โ€™ Missing are responsibility and self subordination

Response to the recession based on unrealistic expectations borne of rational behaviour is at best a plaster that leaves the wound to fester. Rational behaviour, like economics, is a human concept not a natural law. Stimulus however implemented canโ€™t save the day. A tight monetary policy a la Milton Freidman if it can be implemented will likely be disastrous, and a booming Real Estate economy merely underscores imminent disaster. Moreover, it is a myth to think that money and technology alone will save us.

The G20 refinanced the IMF in order to stabilize the world economy. The funds promised to the IMF will likely be invested in those European countries with one foot in the grave and those LDCs that are crucial to the G20 survival. We havenโ€™t the track record, strong fundamentals or policies to justify inclusion in the latter category. Sure we will receive traditional aid (to reduce illness and disease etc) but not aid in the form of development financing and investment projects. What little we get will go to debt service and increase our indebtedness. Reliance on the Mother Country to bail us out each time is a pipe dream. Has anyone anywhere advised the PM accordingly, and if so did it fall on death ears? The textbook apart one wonders about the wisdom of the local confreres.

We cannot talk about the next decade without comprehending the present and understanding the past. And we are not immune or excused from world events. The recession is far from over, at least as far as labour is concerned, which is not good news for tourism. We are stuck with a growing underclass of increasingly landless unemployed and underemployed souls unable to feed themselves. With the immigration doors essentially closed the return of the ration card may not be far of. We are short on worthwhile resources, unable to generate new profitable and intangible assets, have neither dollars nor products to pay for imports and remain dependent on borrowing. We canโ€™t swap debt for corporate equity, print money like the USA and Europe, or socialise risk and business at the expense of taxpayers. The Central Bank cannot issue enough money to keep the economy rolling without causing inflation. And financing debt from taxes has its limitations. It is a mistaken belief that low interest rates alone will facilitate business and conservation. Macro economic policies alone will not rescue the perishing.

Oil without which the world will collapse is not in unlimited supply and alternate forms of energy—bio-fuels, cold fusion etc—are many years away. Despite conventional wisdom (and regardless of the recession) declining world economic activity demand for oil will rise and so to the price, which will be reflected in almost everything we consume.

Already the international financial system is being revised. The US dollar will likely be replaced as the โ€œunit of exchange.โ€ Inflation will increase our debt load, import costs and compound our difficulties. China, Russian and Brazil fearing US inflation might erode their investments and exports are seeking and will have a bigger say in the IMF and the world economy. The new capitalist system will facilitate the horizontal organization of corporations (globalization). They will control trade and business, and there will be little or no room for import substitution investment.Given the above it is difficult to envision success in a country not structured for long term success. Optimism is a cloudy lens. Without Barley Loaves the next decade looks like a dismal one. Where people see no future it makes sense to live for the present. This in time will weaken the nation, undermine its culture and could invite social unrest


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  1. A brilliant analysis Looking Glass! Absolutely prophetic!


  2. “Despite conventional wisdom (and regardless of the recession) declining world economic activity demand for oil will rise and so to the price, which will be reflected in almost everything we consume.” WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!

    The new capitalist system will facilitate the horizontal organization of corporations (globalization). What NEW capitalist system are you speaking of? This system as well as globalization has been around for centuries but operated under the sham called democracy which gave you the illusion that you were actually included. Now that the kleptocrats are going in for ‘the kill’ they kicked your arses to the curb.

    But when our backs are against the wall, necessity, again becomes the mother of invention. This could be the CREATOR’S way of leading us to our HIGHER SELF. So bring it on!


  3. Are we saying Barbados is caught in the debt trap and there is no hope?

  4. Straight talk Avatar

    Looking Glass;

    Great overview of how all the chickens are coming home to roost.

    One reservation tho’, how do you reconcile globalisation and the price of oil both increasing?

  5. Rumplestilskin Avatar
    Rumplestilskin

    Excellent summary, as ST said, chickens coming home.

    The price of oil is and will continue to increase, not only due to reduced supply, but also due to being a limited resource, with continued questionable supply, the countries that have it will use that to maximise revenue, by limiting production, as they are doing now.

    In addition, more countires, such as in Eastern Europe, Asia are increasing ‘development’ (that word) and thus increasing ‘lifestyl’ and consumption, thus oil price rises.

    As is noted, we must go back to a simpler living, must revert as much as possible to self-reliance on agriculture and improve resources such as fishing, which can supply what we need to consume.

    We are not the only ones needing to do this.

    The lifestyle in North America will continue to faced with challenges, not least the challenge to regenerate its industrial production.

    The ‘easy days’ of the 80’s to 90’s are over for good.

    Things will be tougher for all.

    In some ways, tougher means more difficult, but as Hopi says, there may be a silver lining, in a simpler but more enjoyable lifestyle.

    Peace

  6. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    A very thoughtful piece.

    “We seem to have a collective delusion” is a great observation, though I think what followed (pointing to government) was too limited and coul deasily have been pointed to ‘others than oneself’.

    “Optimism is a cloudy lens.” But so too is the prism of pessimism, as you rightly imply with “Where people see no future it makes sense to live for the present. This in time will weaken the nation, undermine its culture and could invite social unrest.”


  7. @ David
    “Are we saying Barbados is caught in the debt trap and there is no hope?”

    Yes!


  8. I prefer to be an optimist. Through my cloudy lens, I perceive that Barbados is better placed than most to survive the hard times that are coming.

    Successive governments have contributed to the country’s national debt, but in the main, that debt has been incurred in the creation of a strong infrastructure and to build capacity that places us in a position to recover quickly after the recession abates.

    Our seaport and airport can serve us without major upgrades for the next two decades. Our road system, particularly the new and much maligned expansion to the ABC highway can with normal maintenance meet traffic needs once some sensible control is exerted on the number of vehicles. Our tourism plant, while not the greatest, without major expenditure can accommodate a post recession resurgence in the industry. The completion of the Four Seasons project will further enhance it. Our offshore business sector, into which we have had to inject little as a country, remains strong and has the potential to grow as our business partners see us as a stable and well run financial jurisdiction. We even have a new and enlarged prison to accommodate those who react to the recession in an unacceptable manner.

    Why all the pessimism. The glass is half full, not half empty and the thing that can hurt us most is panic. Our debt is manageable.

    There must and will be some adjustments in our standard of living, especially as the price of oil resumes its upward march, but we are and have always been a pragmatic people and we will revert to our proven common sense way of living to survive.

  9. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    I tend toward pessimism, not desperation, for two main reasons.

    1. The end of recession and we hope the resumption of growth in the rest of the world from say late 2009/early 2010 will help those Barbadians abroad who had been badly affected by the recession to resume their flow of remittances. (This applies to other countries with a similar dependency.)

    2. The goods and services that Barbados relies on selling to the rest of the world may be in higher demand as the recession eases/ends. But, as that is mainly tourism, I have a major concern. The recession might have ended the lives of several enterprises in this sector or may soon do so. The end of the recession will not see their revival, and it’s hard to see what may take their place. (As an example, I have heard of small hotels catering to high end clients who cannot compete in the downturn with the bigger players who can discount to keep up demand. So, they go under or at best scale back overheads as much as possible–meaning layoffs. When the recession is over, they may not be around, or may not be able to get back to former levels.)

    This 2nd point is a sort of decoupling, meaning that Barbados will need more than a resumption of world growth to get back onto a higher national growth path.

    So, dealing with the debt burden will be much harder than was perhaps anticipated. If growth wont help, then sacrifices are the only alternative. To reduce the debt the country must run a fiscal surplus, meaning a better revenue/spending balance. The revenue (and fees) base is very narrow, so the pressure seems to have to be placed on spending. I’ve heard a lot of talk about public sector reform, but talk saves no money.


  10. Surely, this type of thread ( not necessarily the content) is a welcome departure from what has been served up on here for the last three blogs – perhaps four out of the last five blogs.

    Thus, to have had this number of the blogs in quick succession on BU dealing with immigration issues meant that there eventually would have been some thoughts going through the minds of some commenters on here as to whether or NOT other social and political issues should have been given greater opportunity to be discussed on here as well, given that the possibility for dealing with other very important issues on this blogsite seemed almost shuttered.

    Well, even though this high level of concentration by BU on the immigration affairs of Barbados has been reflective of how many commenters see immigration issues as being so important right now, at least to debate – primarily because of the fact that the immigration problems of this country are in themselves so serious and their implications so threatening to the long term stability and national security of this country, that they are in need of being seriously arrested and dealt with systematically, before they get worse – it did NOT mean that other relevant topics and subjects should have been made to suffer for lack of timely coverage on here.

    Therefore, the PDC would have wished that the present so-called economic and financial problems of this country would have been getting greater attention on this blog – the leading Barbados news and current affairs internet blog – given that this country is entering a depression of disturbing proportions, and with so many thousands of people and business entities suffering terribly and losing hope for better at this stage in Barbados.

    The fact is that the so-called economic and financial problems of this country are right now so very devastating and dire in their impact on the well-being and welfare of the citizens of this country, that to continue to treat them with less than deserved critical attention – as this stupid DLP government is right now doing – is and will continue to lead to far more severe political, social, material and financial problems for this country than might be imagined by some, both now and in the future, such that the country will along the way be likely to lose some of its present standing in the international pecking order of states.

    Hence, even though we will NOT seek to compare the immigration problems of this country with the so-called economic and financial problems of this country – as that we are evaluating each class of problems on their own – the fact is that it is the political production, distribution and money affairs of this country that are far more central to the further growth and development of the country and to the position the country occupies in the international pecking order of states, than the immigration affairs are central to such circumstances themselves.

    Therefore, we would have wished that at least two or three more threads over the last four days or so highlighting the very fundamental so-called economic and financial problems facing this country could have indeed been possible to help bring balance to bear on the types and significances of the commentaries that have been found here within recent times.

    To have seen blogs that would have been dealing quite appropriately with the fact that unemployment is fast increasing in the country; that national output is declining significantly; that at the same time the cost of living is still obscenely high, the foreign reserves are plummeting; that there are NO new major investment projects actively running at the moment in Barbados; that the National Insurance Scheme is currently playing a very potentially risky, dangerous, and misguided role in the national money lending business; and that Dr. Delisle Worrell is reportedly set to be the new Governor of the Central Bank, and how prepared would he be for the task, and what if any changes in monetary policies etc will come about in the country, given that he would assume the mantle of leadership of that very important institution at a time when Barbados is in entering this depression, etc. are issues that are of the kind that touch and concern the lives of every Barbadian in this country, and are such that discussion on them on here would have added much needed diversity to recent discussions on here and would have signaled too to this ramshackled DLP government that many Barbadians will NOT ONLY be concerned with the problems associated with unchecked and uncontrolled immigration into the country – esp. where it is so manifestly clear that to allow so many Indians, Chinese and Arabs into our country will eventually bring untold social and racial disharmony in this country – but WILL ALSO be concerned with the so-called economic and financial problems of this country.

    Anyhow, the author of this lead blog must be commended for having such courage and insight to wade through the thickness of verbiage and vernacular that has been centered around those immigration issues on here to the point of over-kill, and then to succeed in presenting what is essentially a short and fairly refreshing penetrative narrative on some of the overlying and underlying money and financial problems of the country.

    Finally, the overbearing problem with this presentation is that it fails miserably to address the question of solutions to many of the problems highlighted in it. It is alright, some times, to describe, analyze and explain specific national problems, but it is a totally different matter when one fails to identify possible solutions to them. And this is where the author of the lead blog has fallen down terribly.

    PDC


  11. Unfortunately, whether individuals tend towards optimism or pessimism has little bearing on the reality of the current situation in which we find ourselves.

    The fact of the matter is that our goose has been beheaded and plucked. It is already being prepared for the pot. No doubt a few more golden eggs may yet remain in its bowels, but Looking Glass’s assessment is correct.

    There is no question whatsoever that we may fare better than many others -even some of the major developed ‘stars’, but the thread is about Barbados….. and it will not be an easy time.

    I have much respect for Inkwell the optimist. However much of the ‘development’ to which he refers is meaningful only under the developmental model that we followed since WW2. In a future that is defined by high debt, high energy cost, high food cost, extreme security issues and unprecedented weather systems most of our ‘developmental investments’ will be nothing but stranded assets.

    I hate to be a spoilsport, but we may well find that the best investment that has been made in preparing for the reality of our immediate future has been by the Rastafarian community….


  12. We listen to the debt burden being discussed in such amorphous terms by the experts. As we understand it the debt has two components, foreign and local. For the purpose of this discussion and what appears to be fuelling the pessimism is our inability to service the foreign component of the debt which is dependent on the fickle tourism dollar. The reason for this is that our significant foreign dollars are derived from tourism which comes out of the markets which are currently seriously affected by global recession, there is the offshore sector which is also caught up in the recession turbulence.

    Barbados currently has reasonable reserves which will have to support less foreign receipts in the near term. It appears from all reports that consumption expenditure continues to be relatively high vis a vis the expected behaviour in a recession. If Barbados cuts spending given our large retail/distributive sector it is bound to have repercussions. We would like the economists to lead the discussion from this point.

    What next?


  13. @Inkwell……When there’s no longer any money for the people to buy fuel to put their cars on that much maligned but newly expanded highway or to land their overbooked planes on the tarmac, I guess you’ll have more than enough space to line up the unruly locals at this spanking state of the art facility (airport) and cart them off to your multi-million dollar 5 star prison.
    That is truly a 1/2 full glass!

  14. Straight talk Avatar

    David:
    In the good times, the local component of our debt was less of a concern than foreign borrowings.

    However is it still so unimportant in these straightened times?

    With the Income Tax, NIS, Credit Unions and banks now losing revenue, does the Govt. still have such an easy access to these alternative borrowings.

    Without published accounts to judge by, do we know if the NIS sufficient liquid funds to maintain the safety net it was set up to provide?

    Just asking.


  15. Where Economics Fails
    By John Michael Greer

    SNIP

    Still, the decline and fall of industrial civilization, that troubled and dysfunctional superstar still wobbling across the historical stage, canโ€™t be tracked that effectively by taking in music videos or soundbite interviews. Instead, I spent the weekend reading through economics textbooks. โ€œThrillerโ€ is not exactly the word Iโ€™d use to describe these hefty tomes, but Iโ€™d recommend that anyone concerned with the future of our society ought to read at least one. This is not because current economic textbooks offer useful guidance to the challenges of our time. Quite the contrary; the world they describe is as imaginary as Oz, and rather less relevant to contemporary life. What makes them important is precisely that so many of the decision makers of our time treat this fantasy as reality.

    Understand current economic thought and you understand most of the mistakes that are dragging industrial civilization down to ruin. The Energy Information Administration (EIA), a branch of the US government, has become infamous in the peak oil scene over the last decade or so for publishing estimates of future petroleum production that have no relationship to geological reality. Their methodology, as described in EIA publications, was simply to estimate probable increases in demand, and then to assume that increased demand would automatically be met with a corresponding increase in supply. Quite a few peak oil writers have suggested some dark conspiracy behind this blithe disregard for the limits of a finite planet, but it takes only a few minutesโ€™ worth of reading to identify the real culprit as the standard notion of the law of supply and demand taught in every first-year economics textbook today.

    According to this model of the world, the amount of any commodity available in a free market is controlled by the demand for that commodity. When consumers want more of a commodity than is available on the market, and are willing to pay more for it, the price of the commodity goes up; this provides an economic incentive for producers to produce more of the commodity, and so the amount of the commodity on the market goes up. Increased production sets an upper limit on price increases, since producers competing against one another will cut prices to gain market share, and the willingness of consumers to pay rising prices is also limited. Thus, in theory, the production and price of a commodity are set by a shifting balance between the desire of consumers to buy it and the desire of producers to make a profit from producing it.

    What makes the theory so seductive is that within certain limits, and in certain circumstances, it works tolerably well. The problem creeps in when economists lose track of the existence of those limits and circumstances, and this, to a remarkable degree, is exactly what they have done. To be fair, they had good reason to do so, because during the three-hundred-year boom that created the industrial world following the successful harnessing of fossil fuels, the limits rarely applied and the circumstances were far more often present than not. Among the most important roots of the current crisis, in turn, are the hard facts that the limits have begun to come into play, and the circumstances no longer exist.

    Letโ€™s start with the obvious. Imagine that a plane full of investment bankers makes a forced landing in the Pacific close to a desert island. The island has no food, no water, and no shelter; itโ€™s just a bare lump of rock and sand with a few salt-tolerant grasses on it. As the bankers struggle ashore from the sinking plane, the need for food, water, and shelter on that island is going to be considerable, but even if each of the bankers have a suitcase full of $134 billion dollars in bearer bonds โ€“ like those guys who were caught trying to enter Switzerland a little while back โ€“ that need is going to go unfilled, until and unless a ship arrives from somewhere else. The lesson here is simple: economics doesnโ€™t trump physical reality.

    http://www.energybulletin.net/node/49426

  16. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @PDC (with due regard to the role that David plays)
    This is meant to be a constructive comment, in the sense of what you may need to consider if you are to take the helm of the political sphere.

    Your comments are very intriguing. You begin by seeming to say that others were setting an agenda for discussion, but you wondered if it were the right agenda. What was binding your hand to not change that agenda? But that position is bizarre, anyway, because I do not know what metric you have for determining what the body social has at the top of its concerns. By comparison, people with little access to food always focus on the topic of food.

    Why do you not set the pace and let others catch up?

  17. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    “We listen to the debt burden being discussed in such amorphous terms by the experts. As we understand it the debt has two components, foreign and local.”
    You can look at debt many ways, but mainly: foreign lender/domestic lender; foreign currency/domestic currency [there is an important distinction between the currency of the debt and the residence of the lender]; short-/long-term; and combinations thereof. The actual problem depends on which part needs to be serviced both by amount and volume. Given the actual stock of debt, it’s the servicing need that is the immediate problem.

    Barbados can print money to deal with the domestic CURRENCY element (and then we may have to deal with higher inflation).

    Barbados has to earn foreign exchange, or draw on its reserves (or even take on new debt) to deal with the foreign CURRENCY element. The current environment makes earning it much harder than in the past [tourism earnings down, remittances down, other capital inflows down, oil import bill down, food import bill up].

    So, the debt service bind is coming. What Options? Reschedule? Default? Borrow more (including from IMF)? Draw down reserves?

    The difficulty, which is initially political, is which of the distasteful options to choose. You cannot do nothing.

  18. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    CORRECTION: The actual problem depends on which part needs to be serviced both by TYPE and volume.


  19. @PDC

    You are correct that BU took a decision to focus on immigration, we believe it is fundamental to protecting our future society. Our focus was timed to coincide with the Caricom Heads of conference which is currently in motion. There is also the fact that the Caribbean and even key stakeholders in Barbados were fanning the anti-Barbados sentiment. BU likes to think that we are true patriots and makes no apology to anyone for stating the point.

    As a footnote immigration matters will continue to take focus on Bu in the coming days, it is our remit that when a person Google the Internet BU will be accessible to fairly represent the views as we see it.


  20. Looking Glass, you have done a very good job and many of the contributors as well. I have never come across such enlightened discussion in any of our papers or on the call in programmes.

    To BU , I say keep it up. You are on to a good thing


  21. Submitted on 2009/07/04 at 2:05pm

    Looking Glass, you have done a very good job and many of the contributors as well. I have never come across such enlightened discussion in any of our papers or on the call in programmes.

    To BU , I say keep it up. You are on to a good thing

    Agree this is one of Looking Glass’ better blogs ๐Ÿ™‚

    The beautiful thing, it does not require the reader to look for a Financial Concordance!

    Couldn’t resist that one Dr. Porgie

  22. Straight talk Avatar

    I smile when reading seemingly intelligent posters confidently predicting the return to growth signalling the end to recession.

    Constant growth in a finite world is a dangerous pipedream put about by politicians and classical economists for our comfort and their delusion.

    There are many signs that the world is testing (and sometimes exceeding) the earth’s carrying capacity.

    The whole system must be reshaped and scaled down if we are to leave anything worthwhile for our grandchildren.

    The financial system has toppled off its feet of clay, and will take many more years to unravel this mind-boggling debt crisis.

    While it struggles to do so, and credit remains tight, the world relies on Fed funny money and the wheeler dealing of Morgan Sachs to keep a modicum of activity on Wall Street.

    Geithner and Rubin, the proverbial ducks, gliding serenely past ever more pessimistic indicators, whilst paddling like fury under the surface, hoping the world does not fully understand the mess they helped initiate.

    What many bloggers on here have been predicting has come to pass.

    And it may get worse, a lot worse.

    Maybe we can survive this meltdown, but at what cost?

    What Barbados hasn’t experienced yet is the breakdown of its political system.

    When people get hungry, or can’t afford the new water rates what happens then?

    Will these people still respect the rule of law or indeed even listen to their MPs when their kids are crying with hunger and thirst.

    We are a very peaceful and law abiding nation, but if ever the system fails to supply affordable basic needs,
    self-control flies out the door and in comes the law of the jungle.

    Government holds sway only by the consent of the people.
    Once they feel abandoned and say that’s enough of that, the whole fabric of society can break down in days.

    Who would win the showdown between a desperate people and the establishment is immaterial.

    The country as we know it would be gone forever.

    This, admittedly gloomy, scenario will make the current financial problems pale into insignificance.

    But remember that the powers that be only two or three short years ago were throwing away and pocketing taxpayer’s money as if there were no tomorrow, well as predicted, tomorrow has arrived, and its raining.

    And when the next day is guaranteed to be even worse than today, what do you do?

    I’ll let the politicians and pastors come up with their own answers to that one, I’m sure that other posters with more vivid imaginations can come up with alternatives.

    Let us hope that our leaders have the foresight this time to at least have a plan for survival should things take a turn worse.


  23. Straightalk wrote:
    Constant growth in a finite world is a dangerous pipedream put about by politicians and classical economists for our comfort and their delusion.

    From the FAQs at http://www.steadystate.org:

    Remember: to think there is no limit to growth on a finite planet is precisely, mathematically equivalent to thinking that you may have a stabilized, steady state economy on a perpetually shrinking planet. Both claims are precisely, equally ludicrous!

    http://www.steadystate.org/CASSEFAQs.html#anchor_83


  24. Looking Glass, I concur with BT, “A brilliant analysis Looking Glass! Absolutely prophetic!”

    Yes, your monetary and financial analysis of our country is right on!

    However, every thing in our natural world, has as its underlying strength, A FOUNDATION, without which it will start to crumble.

    We can, and righty so, seriously consider and analize our monetary and financial structures, but, there is even a more serious problem underlying these, the social, moral, and spiritual foundation, which many are ignoring or paying little attention to.

    Do Not Love the World.

    “Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father (Almighty God) is not in him.”

    “For all that is the world (Economic, financial, commerce system) the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life – is not of the Father but is of the world.”

    “And the world (system) is passing away (daily) and the lust (desires) of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.” ( I John 2: 15-17).

    LG, your financial analysis is more prophetic than you realize, BUT, the very ‘core’ problems and reasons for the world wide economic crisis, and those that we are seeking to grapple with, are deeply ‘rooted’ in the ethical, moral, and spiritual abyss we have dug ourselves into, and there IS NO way out of this ‘pit’ other than a true ‘Spiritual’ awakening and revival, through sincere repentence and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ!


  25. To: David and livinginbarbados

    From: The People’s Democratic Congress (PDC)

    We are NOT arguing that immigration issues should never be dealt with substantially on this blogsite. What we are arguing is that one should have had, yes, whatever number of threads/blogs on here – as is the case recently/now – on the immigration problems facing this country, but at the same time an equivalent or proportionate number of non-immigration oriented threads also, so that NO other possible threads on many other relevant subjects or topics, like the dire state of economic and financial affairs of the country, should have been made to suffer for want of coverage on BU.

    Yet, in as much as many of us blogging on here know that one of the keys to life is balance, it should NOT have taken that much effort to bring some balance to bear on this situation wherefore there has been an overabundance of discussion on the immigration issue. By adding a few threads that catered to non-immigration issues would have been better than dealing with – in such a short interval – so many immigration-oriented threads, which may have been serving to alienate so many of our fellow bloggers who might NOT have the appetite for dealing with these immigration issues.

    As well, we in PDC have recognized that so many functionaries within the traditional and modern media in Barbados are dwelling on this immigration issue, primarily for political or financial reasons – so much so that even one political joker has sought to jump on the band wagon in his contribution to BU, but interestingly enough NOT many people are still commenting under his lead blogs; and for three straight days – Thursday to Friday this week – you have had the Nation Newspaper – the leading newspaper in Barbados – resorted to putting one image and an accompanying story on the front page of each day’s edition – suggesting the importance of the immigration issue at this time in Barbados, and the importance of propagating an issue that can help swell the newspaper company’s money coffers.

    But these media functionaries and people including BU’s David must understand that at the ground and constituency levels there is NOT much discussion on these immigration issues no matter how much they are trying to overstate these rather important issues. Of course, this might really have to do with the fact that so many Barbadians do NOT have the kind of fear for Guyanese immigrants esp. swamping this country; do NOT have a care for, or do NOT have interest in Guyanese/Barbados immigration spats simply because they are dealing with these matters personally privately and parochially on very deep and established terms and NOT at the national level.

    Furthermore, what David and livinginbarbados must know is that is that there is always a point of overkill, or a point of marginal diminishing returns, with regard to discussing these kinds of issues, or any kinds of issues, on here or else where. There will be a point in time when these immigration issues will NOT be so often discussed on here any more until there comes another point in time thereafter when they would be often discussed for whatever reasons.

    Although we in PDC will do whatever in our power to make sure that the immigration problems of our country are resolved in the name, honor and glory of those who are the descendants of those who were enslaved and who would have been exploited over the years by the colonialists and the settler elites and their descendants, we must tell the people of Barbados that this immigration issue is such a divisive issue that NO party – whether so-called pro- managed immigration or so-called anti-managed immigration – will be able to win an election on the basis of which side of the issue they are, because of the fact that this issue will never be a serious electoral issue in Barbados at this stage, even if some try to make it seem so, and because of the fact that there are far more important electoral issues . Thus, any attempt to deal with our immigration problems must be dealt with in a sensible national strategic manner, with the national political stability and security and racial harmony of this country foremost in mind.

    Thus, when this DLP and its joke leader are making the serious blunder of thinking that our immigration problems are to be resolved on the basis of political legal pragmatism, wherefore emphases would be placed on things like “a structured approach to re-admissions of overstays based on some protocol or memorandum of understanding”; “a guest worker program in areas where the labor market might justify it in the future”; on “a formal mechanism to regulate consultations and information exchange between our chief immigration officers and senior personnel”, etc. – it could clearly be being shown too how naive the DLP and their joke leader were in treating to this matter in a narrow political electoral way at first ( at around the last election time) and how now this DLP and its joke leader seem to be on the RETREAT from their earlier disclosed immigration strictures including the amnesty, now that they realized that they would still wish the support of many Guyanese in elections in Barbados which are less than 3 years away.

    It is noteworthy, too, that this retreat has had to do with the fact that this DLP and its joke leader are most likely thinking that there is right now too much discussion in Barbados on the immigration problems of the country and which might prove counter-productive to the party and government at this stage. So, watch out how immigration issues in this country will subside the closer we get to elections in this country and how economic, financial and integrity issues will come to dominate in the media as we get closer to elections.

    Lest we are accused by some here of helping to perpetuate too much immigration talk in contra-position to our earlier arguments, let us finalize by saying that on the back page of today’s Saturday Sun, July 4, 2009, we are reading how the Minister of Health, Mr. Donville Inniss, is saying how government is considering passing on to patients the handling fees that pharmacies filling prescriptions charge to the Barbados Drug Service (BDS), as a means of reducing the total expenditures of the BDS. So, there you have it, the Barbadian masses and middle classes might be being asked by this ramshackle DLP Government to take on more and more financial burdens than they can bear at this stage. How outrageous and scandalous!! Hence, this is a matter that needs serious ventilating in the traditional and modern media in Barbados!!

    So, there you have it, David and livinginbarbados.

    PDC

  26. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Hopi
    “@Inkwellโ€ฆโ€ฆWhen thereโ€™s no longer any money for the people to buy fuel to put their cars on that much maligned but newly expanded highway or to land their overbooked planes on the tarmac, I guess youโ€™ll have more than enough space to line up the unruly locals at this spanking state of the art facility (airport) and cart them off to your multi-million dollar 5 star prison.
    That is truly a 1/2 full glass!”

    There will always be money (maybe not of much value), but there may not always be fuel, and the highway and airport might have fallen into disrepair because of an inability to maintain it, or a stream of less-than-full flights…

  27. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @PDC
    As I intimated earlier, you are free to generate the discussion on these topics and I know you have the words. If BU does not appear to be the place where you wish to do that, I have also suggested that you do that on your own website, or even create a blog. Should those options not appeal, I am always willing to post pieces on my blog (you may get fewer comments than if you posted on BU, but I feel that the exposure of the basic ideas will be similarly broad). But, I would hold you to a few conditions, including a word limit. Feel free to discuss or offer via my blog’s email address.

    No ideas should wait for their moment.


  28. livinginbarbados,

    Preface –

    Away from the immigration vs non-immigration issues for a while, if our exchanges under this thread can be so classified in that way.

    Notwithstanding your other specified suggestions in the blog above, we hope you are NOT therein carrying out a poaching exercise here on BU by inviting us from here to post pieces on your blog. For, surely it would NOT be right for you to do so on BU, simply because you are – without this medium’s consent – using it NOT just to promote your own blog but also to place this medium at an unfair disadvantage while you gain some kind of unfair advantage for yourself without the medium’s consent. Unfair, primarily because we are sure that you never discussed what appears to be a poaching exercise on here with BU’s David and we are sure that they would NEVER have had prior knowledge of such an apparent exercise by you. And the PDC presupposes that David/BU would NEVER advocate that any one does that to any one else; or for that matter would they EVER advocate themselves going on your blogsite and doing it to their advantage and to your disadvantage.

    However, given your kind of poaching instinct, the PDC is sure that you may well wish for some one to do it to you on your blog!! Perhaps you might NOT too!! What principles you have, livinginbarbados!!!

    But ,why do you NOT do the effort to make your blog bigger and better like BU without attempting to undermine or knife the BU family at the same time. The PDC thought you were a member of this BU family?? Where are your ultimate loyalties lying, livinginbarbados, to your blog or to BU’s.

    For your information, livinginbarbados, BU has served us very well for close to 2 years, and really no biases on its part or refusal by it to engage us on any of our policy positions could in any way ever be so big or destructive enough to make us form our own blog etc. Definitely we stand strongly committed to this BU blog, mainly because of the altruistic, principled and mature manner in which it is run.

    How would it look now that we have been seriously promoting the goodness of this blog for so long, and getting others to visit it and post on it, to then because of a preponderance of coverage on one issue, be thinking about forming our own for forming our own blog sake? Does it make much sense to you? Surely having – as a party – a blog is NOT just about putting your own opinions on it, it has a lot to do with and having an understanding of the need to follow and adhere to the legalities and legal obligations relative to the contract you have, say, agreed (to) with wordpress.com; having the time to properly devote to the successful operations of the blog; with having the necessary computer and graphic skills to effectively run it and make it look appealing; about recognizing that there are other blogs out here like the BU blog that are so popular, that – in truth and in fact – they provide you with a ready made platform to present these same opinions; and too it is about possessing – personally, organizationally speaking – most of the “right” personalities and attitudinal outlooks to go along with the blog’s success. Believe it these are some of the kinds of advantages that BU has going for it right now that no other Barbados oriented blog possesses or clearly possesses at the moment.

    Given our own requirements ( NOT exhaustive though) of what we think would lead to the success of a blog, we ask you this question: why do you think many other Barbadian oriented blogs are not prosperous or successful? Why do you think so? We say long live the BU blog.

    Well, you would NOT know this, but some time before the last election some leading members of our party met and wholly decided that we will post our policy positions and general information with this blog following a critical assessment of what perennial good we were seeing at the time coming from it and had reasonably expected to continue coming from it ( the many well written rational objective lead blogs; the less emphasis on sensationalist demeaning coverage and more emphasis on academic meaningful coverage; the even handedness and level headedness involved in responding to many otherwise rash perverse comments coming from some commenters to some others and even at times from some commenters to David himself – we dare say we have never perceived any anger in any of BU responses so far) NOT ONLY from the point of view of the person or persons running it BUT ALSO from the point of view of the many substantial contributions made.

    So, livinginbarbados, we DO NOT wish a blog!! It is as simple as that; NOT when there already exist BU which would continue to be and have a far more efficient and effective blog than any the PDC could ever come up with. Sire, we are NOT about wasting time and energy in that way. Moreover, we could NEVER think that in this small Barbadian society, ANY PARTY could have ANYTHING close to even a fairly successful blog. Just look at the BLP and DLP blogs?? Look how unattractive and appealing many persons find them, mainly because they ( these persons) do NOT want to be caught up in any partisan agendas. They surely rightly wish greater freedom from very overt, biased, partisan tripe and other such effects. Therefore, tell us why we should change that trend or go up against it? tell us? Do you ever read on here or elsewhere that David wishes to have a party?

    What has ever become of the good lessons that underline the concept of specialization and division of labor? of the good lessons that can be garnered from a great understanding of the concept of opportunity costs or of alternative cost ratios in action? But, yes, we acknowledge that one could have a very partisan person who could still be running a blog that does NOT identify with a particular party in Barbados, but who could at the same time have a partisan agenda in support of any party. We have heard allegations that it is Mr. Ronald Jones that runs the Barbados Free Press. Whether that is true or NOT, it is NOT our business.

    Too, livinginbarbados, we will NEVER agree with any unreasonable word limitations as regards blogging, very much because we will NOT allow for any blog to impose on us any unreasonable word limitations. So, without even knowing what the other conditions would be that you alluded to in the above blog – and let us say we do NOT want to know or speculate about them either – we must say that right away you do NOT have us. Even before we could among the membership think about your blog, you simply have blown the opportunity for us to submit information to you by talking about a word limit – whether it is one that is reasonable or unreasonable. That is why we like and confide in BU – whosoever they are. They have NEVER suggested imposing a word limit on us. So, again,Long Live BU.

    Finally, you seem to be the type of individual who – if our party were to ever get stronger in this country or even win government in this country – would want to tell us what to do or NOT to do even before an agreement can come about on relative to what you would be telling us what to do or NOT to do. Anyhow, sire, any discussions on any topics that we – PDC and livinginbarbados – will continue to have, will simply have to take place on here, on BU, OK.

    So long.

    PDC


  29. LIB, I told you! You are too kind…

  30. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @PDC
    I read your words very carefully, and I also assess your didactic style. It tells me about the world you see and your understanding of it.

    You state “we hope you are NOT therein carrying out a poaching exercise here” then go on to address your own concern, then admonish. [I can say I am not a poacher.] But, one cannot poach game that is not available. I can only ‘poach’ if you let me catch you and ‘put you in the bag’. I could ‘stalk’ and ‘lie in wait’.

    What I have tried to point out is that you are much more controllers of your destiny than you seem to want to take on board. I could easily copy your material once it is in the public domain and post it, with the usual attributions.

    “we will NEVER agree with any unreasonable word limitations as regards blogging, very much because we will NOT allow for any blog to impose on us any unreasonable word limitations.” [Again, you posit ‘unreasonable’ even though I did not specify the number of words. The world of your adminstration is one of great discipline, but your core seems to cry ‘laissez faire’]

    “You simply have blown the opportunity for us to submit information to you by talking about a word limit โ€“ whether it is one that is reasonable or unreasonable” [The opportunity is yours to submit, but mine to offer. I offered you refused. No problems for me.]

    “Finally, you seem to be the type of individual who โ€“ if our party were to ever get stronger in this country or even win government in this country โ€“ would want to tell us what to do or NOT to do even before an agreement can come about on relative to what you would be telling us what to do or NOT to do.” [If I were a citizen in the world you govern I would hope that I could tell you what I think, though again, I sense your tendency to be less open to this kind of interaction with citizens. If I were a voter and had led you to power, I would hope that you would not just dispense of my goodwill. It will always be your government to control, surely.]

    I will satisfy myself with posting my own writing on my blog and look back on a fish that slipped away.

    There, you have it.

  31. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Themis
    I hope you see what my kindness got me…

  32. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    While it was unintentional, the exchange with PDC highlights for me some core issues of economics, that of how to deal with scarcity, and prices.

    I tried to show that supply was was there to meet a demand [the debate on immigration was not ‘crowding out’ debate on other topics].

    Those who had a certain demand did not want to deal with an available supplier because the ‘price’ was felt not to be right, even though no price had been stated. So the demander never tested whether there was a price that could be agreed, and decided not to go to the ‘market’ but keep his demand unsatisfied.

    The supplier, who is himself someone who has demands, then highlights that the supply space is still there and fills it himself. Totally internal pricing. The market will, of course, change, because now that the supplier has taken to fill the role of the demander he has gained controlled of both sides of the market.

    Those of you who have never been to a bazaar in Asia, Africa, or the Middle East, for example, might never have come across this process of bargaining, but it’s alive and well and has lots of lessons to teach.


  33. @LIB

    What should be the role of government in an economy like Barbados recognising that the economic factor is only a part of government’s role in the economy?

  34. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @PDC
    “Given our own requirements ( NOT exhaustive though) of what we think would lead to the success of a blog, we ask you this question: why do you think many other Barbadian oriented blogs are not prosperous or successful? Why do you think so? We say long live the BU blog.” [I’m not sure how ‘prosperous’ and ‘successful’ are measured in your minds, and if it relates to income in B$, foreign currency or both. As a BU blogger pointed out recently, BU, BFP and LIB are not so far apart in terms of Internet traffic. I do not know about income generation, and would not expected for that to be discussed in the blogosphere. It may also not be part of the success criteria or any of the bloggers. I would gladly concede that BU and BFP have a lot of comments, though I would stress NOT THAT MANY UNIQUE COMMENTATORS, but that also reflects many differences of style. But quantity and quality are not the same thing, either.]

  35. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    “What should be the role of government in an economy like Barbados recognising that the economic factor is only a part of governmentโ€™s role in the economy?”
    A big question. Let me limit myself and suggest 4 points to are always in my head.

    1. Frame and present consistent policies for the other economic actors. Though it sounds simple, it means, for example, applying fully the laws that you have on the books. That way, we all know what the playing conditions are.
    2. Communicate policies in a way that closes the obvious gaps, so that subsequently, the focus can be on implementation not wasting energy getting the message straight [the immigration issue is a classic PR mess]
    3. [Preface: I am not a free marketer, but believe that when government resources are tight and likely to stay that way for structural reasons, you are better with a slim/small public sector.] Get off the public sector plate activities that can be offered at a good enough level by the private sector. From my limited experience, I would ask why the post office is not private. In a small country such as this, why is this a public sector operation?
    4. Stop paying public money to private individuals to do things they would do anyway. [My target here is tourism: I have asked the question about the net financial contribution of tourism and heard a defeaning silence on it. If you cannot/will not answer that question then you must justify to me why you offer to subsidize foreign tourists to come here for holiday [sun guarantee, teaser packages, airline subsidies, marketing ventures {think, the government is marketing for the private sector in tourism, but not for say BS&T}, etc.–they all add up] and yet cannot find funds for local activities.

  36. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    CORRECTIONS: Let me limit myself and suggest 4 points THAT are always in my head

    …they all add up, and yet GOVERNMENT cannot find funds for CRITICAL local activities].


  37. livinginbarbados,

    You surely have a twisted, learned way of deliberately misplacing your own interpretations of what we have said on many blogs here.

    No one has accused you of poaching any one, effectively speaking. We have said: ” we hope you are NOT therein carrying out a POACHING EXERCISE here on BU”. To have so flagrantly created you own argument to suit your own purposes – certainly NOT ours – and to have done so without full appraisal of what we would have said is downright wrong and probably mischievous.

    You sought to deny that there was NO such exercise GOING ON by you – FACETIOUSLY BECAUSE YOU SAW THERE WAS NO GAME AT HAND (OH WHAT GOOK OR GUCK!). Yet, you implicitly acknowledge – even without your possibly consciously knowing this on your own – and by way of the example that you adduced, the fact (you stated it) that poaching as an exercise begins some where and ends some where.

    Still, you were willing to invite us to send views to you, from here at BU!! Only once we had allowed you to succeed could your conduct have been defined as poaching? Well, Well!! And to show that you did such a substantially unsatisfactory job at responding, you somehow, or for some strange reason, decided NOT to refer to how BU might have felt about your conduct which you so brazenly sought to justified by way of default.

    And what is more tragic, is that you refused to deal with the moral ethical principles that we raised concerning your behaviour on this blog, and refused to deal with some of the identified outstanding characteristics of this BU blog. Yet no praise for their grand efforts ( strange) – such refusal to praise them for their worth might properly explain – now – after the fact – why there could be justification for our hoping that you were NOT on a poaching exercise, given the overtures you previously made.

    Where “unreasonable word limitations” are concerned, we say so from the point of view of the nature of particular source/claim at this juncture and in this particular context, from which such would be coming, given our position and which would be totally at variance with ours. Not the actual word limitations. That is why we added where blogging is concerned. So, your grouse about the numericality surrounding the matter will NOT wash!!

    Mr. livinginbarbados, the issue is still on you. You will NOT limit us to anything (or to nothing) where your blog is concerned, barring that thing or the possibility of that thing is unreasonable in a given context.

    Thus, to have sought to impose some thing without our even HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS it, was unstudied. And we are NOT mincing words here, AT ALL. To stray a little from the point, livinginbarbados, but somehow at the same time to get across our point, why do you think that we have as one of our fundamental policies that constituents – any time a PDC Government emerges in this country – will be allowed to debate and pass the laws of this country? Why do you think this is so, sire? Because we virulently deprecate the fact that in this country – which some falsely describe as a democracy – constituents right now have NO SAY, NO SAY WHATSOEVER, NO OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE ANY SAY WHATSOEVER CONCERNING DETERMINING WHAT NATIONAL LAWS ARE PUT IN PLACE IN THIS COUNTRY EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE AFFECTED BY THEM. Such is totally demeaning of what effective Barbadian citizenship means to us, right!!

    Having stated such, we again say that you NEVER even made a proposition as to negotiate for some term or condition relative to a word limit or any other possible suitable terms or conditions, or to examine the possibility of facilitating such first by finding out our email and then to commit to facilitation – the identical way you talked about us emailing you. No. You almost just SOUGHT to PRE-IMPOSE THE BELIEF THAT THERE WOULD BE a condition of a word limit on us. What trash!!!

    livinginbarbados, we want you to do better at your rationalization processes, please!!

    As we have said previously where there is discussion on any issues topics or whatsoever between us, they must be dealt with on here, BU, for the reasons adduced – expressly or impliedly – above. And we are NOT closed to interacting with the citizenry at this level either – what a red herring!!

    Thank You.

    PDC


  38. LIB, get out of the asylum while you still have your sanity…please!

  39. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @PDC
    I will be brief. I made a proposition. You did not like it. For me, there is nothing more to discuss.

    “You refused to deal with the moral ethical principles that we raised” [In the same way that you do not want to be told what to do, I will exercise that option. If you wish to continue this discourse, then let’s take it off this thread.]

  40. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Looking Glass and David
    I should have apologized before for introducing the proposition I did on this thread, and should have sought to contact PDC by another means.

    For me, the exchange with them regarding blogging is closed on this thread and I hope that if they wish to continue, they can do so via e-mail.

  41. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Themis
    “LIB, get out of the asylum while you still have your sanityโ€ฆplease!”

    As was notable in another discourse with Lindsay Holder, some find it hard to a limit of word should or could be placed on submissions.

    I could say now (because I did not specify before) that the limit I had in mind was 5000 words, given what I know of the author/s. I think that is a point I can make without contradiction.

    What’s the phrase…”few words…significant actions”?

  42. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    CORRECTION: hard THAT a limit of WORDS should or could be placed on submissions.


  43. “While it was unintentional, the exchange with PDC highlights for me some core issues of economics, that of how to deal with scarcity, and prices.

    I tried to show that supply was was there to meet a demand [the debate on immigration was not ‘crowding out’ debate on other topics].” – livinginbarbados, in an earlier blog, at 10.08 am, Sunday, July 5, 2009.

    That analogy is not a good one, livinginbarbados, given your kind of argument: that the debate on immigration was NOT crowding out debate on other topics.

    Well quickly, that is patent nonsense.
    Even when we are discussing these immigration vs non-immigration issues on here – and let us again taxonomize them in this way – we are NOT so much talking about pure discussion as much as we are talking about the manner in which there has been segmentation and sequencing and ordering of these discussions.

    For, just as demand and supply operate within a wider governmental political controlling and influencing system in a country and outside of it, it is found that discussions are controlled politically within the BU political system.

    Just as government and other political forces set many of the national rules, terms and conditions that affect demand and supply within a country, so does BU set many of the rules, terms and conditions ( e.g. allow or disallow some threads; set or not set some threads; edit or not edit) under which discussions take place on this blog. Such is reasonably expected too.

    These political forces including BU will set out to do certain things political to justify or NOT many political and other outcomes. And it is NOT only power that we are here dealing with but influence too. It is as simple as that!!

    However, we limit this contribution to those points for now because we do NOT know what is the subject matter being discussed by you in this said 10.08 am, Sunday, July 5, 2009, blog.

    PDC

  44. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @PDC
    You seem to suggest that BU has somehow become THE ONLY PLACE for substantial discussion. I’m sure they love the accolade but, really.

    I don’t know how you really see Barbados or the world much larger, but while the blog thread on immigration was raging on BU, I would believe that most people were discussing that topic and many others elsewhere, and doing many other things.

  45. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    Much as I like your blog, I wont take it that somehow you and it have become masters of the universe. ๐Ÿ™‚


  46. @LIB

    No offence taken. There is no doubt based on what we know that influential and prominent people in our society read the blogs. To what extent the blogs are opinion shapers we don’t know.

  47. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    “There is no doubt based on what we know that influential and prominent people in our society read the blogs.” [And much else too…] Keep up the good work, though.

    Thanks.

  48. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    On influence, anonymity has its place, but so too does openness (we’ve exchanged on this before). I met a minister yesterday afternoon and was able to argue openly with him about my views, as written and spoken, amongst a group of others who know us both. That kind of exchange is important because when you have to stand up for what you say or write I think it helps the influence. But, you have you approach.

    Power to your keyboard.


  49. livinginbarbados,

    “You seem to suggest that BU has somehow become THE ONLY PLACE for substantial discussion.” – livinginbarbados, in an earlier blog, at 12.37 pm, July 5, 2009.

    Like a boxer in a ring, beaten, battered and bruised by the opposing boxer, and struggling to hold onto the ropes to save himself from hitting the canvas real hard, this is your dizzy-headed weak-kneed faltering grasping-in-thin-air response to us. Could NOT you have done or said better? Where has PDC really suggested that?

    PDC

  50. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @PDC
    I’m floored! But guess what? You made your point succinctly. So, like a good boxer, I have no glass chin and maybe I get up and clinch for a victory on points ๐Ÿ™‚

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