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Cable & Wireless Woes

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Submitted by BU family member RE Engineer

Hey David

RE Engineer here. I am wondering why I am not seeing anything about the extremely poor C&W internet service over the past few weeks and the long outages in some areas. I don’t know if I am extra sensitive to this since my new job requires that I depend heavily on the world wide web but after all the talks about BL&P and the outages etc, I am shocked that no one has come out and spoken about the horribly unreliable service of our very own C&W.

I will be doing certificate by distance education starting next month and I am to start another certification in January, and if this sort of service continues I am not sure how either will work out. I am very understanding when it comes to the limitations of technology etc, but it seems C&W does as it pleases and goes unchecked, and just like BL&P we have no other viable options. Contrary to BL&P is that they blatantly give poor service, without giving any reasons as to why and they constantly rake in millions in profit and continue to downsize as they see fit.

I know of persons all over the island that have been experiencing the same grievances and I read the paper daily and listen to the radio. I am yet to get any explanation as to why.

Regards

RE Engineer

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74 responses to “Cable & Wireless Woes”

  1. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @David et al…

    With all due respect, did you, or did you not, sign an agreement with C$W for your ADSL service? (This is a rhetorical question — you did.)

    As I’ve shown you above — the agreement you “signed” (read: agreed to by taking their service) says that C&W can provide you with whatever they choose, with no recourse.

    With all due respect, you (and others) can whine, bitch and complain all you want — C&W has no exposure. And C&W are well trained in dealing with those who feel they’ve been wronged.

    *DEAL WITH IT*!

    IMHO, the only recourse you (and others) have is to choose alternative providers…

  2. David Avatar
    David

    @Chris

    You state the obvious. We have gone past the point and want to suggest that the government, NGOs and other groups have a role to play in this matter. C&W is a ‘monopoly’ and entrenched at that, C&W will find ways to leverage that position to the detriment of consumers. Through regulation we have to contain the beast. To simply walk away is not good enough, C&W must respect the market while being allowed to make its millions.

  3. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @David: “You state the obvious. We have gone past the point…”

    With all due respect David… I *am* stating the obvious. But, again with respect, [you] have *not* gone past the point…

    Consumers in Barbados must take responsibility. They must take risks. They must purchase alternative services from alternative, competitive carriers.

    You are entering a domain to which I cannot speak. But please let me say that the way things are here, the “authorities” are not going to rescue you…

    The work I personally am doing (for reasons I don’t myself entirely understand) are going to take years to bear fruit.

    Until then, the consumers can, again, whine, bitch and complain… Or they can take matters into their own hands.

    Your choice…

  4. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    I agree with you Chris 100%!!

  5. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Thanks Chris. What if it is firefox? Is it still a browser problem? Yesterday was the first time that happened and to tell the truth it has not happened since.

    I need to think aloud here so forgive me for whatever.

    The bottom line is that this is a political problem as Technician states. Even from as far back as the Rate Hearing, that was recognisable.

    Once you recognise that it is a political problem, then one must come with a political solution.
    END OF THOUGHT.

    hmmmm…..

    Next move.

    THINKING ALOUD AGAIN:
    If there is corruption, then it means that money or something is passing. Could be favours too but with a company like C&W it is most likely money. So, who so would be collecting this money?

    Now this would have to be somebody who can make decisions and that can guarantee particular outcomes. Would these be influencing the behaviour of the FTC. I don’t think the FTC could behave this way if the political directorate did not either sanction it or order it.

    Comes back to David’s question: Why did Ronald Toppin resign? If members of the former Government were the ones involved, why then is there no redress with this new Government? I refuse to believe that they were part of this corruption. However, if they were we are doomed.

    How would you get men of influence who were paid off to do something, to turn around what they put in place? If this is so, what could the FTC do? We would only be placing unnecessary pressure on the professionals who would then be getting it from both sides. What, more resignations?

    Do you think that the Government is in bed with C&W and if not, why are they not putting the brakes on C&W?

    I am sure I heard the Prime Minister say words to the effect that the Government will break the backs of monopolies???
    END OF THOUGHT

    If the PM is serious about ending monopolistic behaviour, it means that we should state our complaints precisely and take them directly to him.

    It is necessary to assume that he just has not gotten around to it. C&W is not an easy nut to crack. They have high powered lawyers and other experts that the Government would have to deal with and therefore a move like this on Government’s part takes planning.

    let us also assume that this is a sordid mess, no less than what the PM has been complaining about that he is left to mop up.

    Let us therefore assist him by giving him the information.

    Glad to get that off my chest. Any volunteers to help pull the points together and give some insights to help the PM deal with the situation.

    In this regard and mindful that the PM indicated in his meeting with NGOs that we are welcomed to call on him and discuss any matter of importance, I think he deserves that chance.

    I therefore propose to seek a meeting with him and take along a delegation from the BU family as well as other NGOs that would want to participate. This will be very transparent. The procedure we will follow is to make the request and once given a date, the delegation would be notified. This request will be in the PM’s Office by tomorrow morning.

    Let’s get to the bottom of this. I can’t do it alone, this calls for citizen action. I await your responses to some positive action.

  6. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @ROK… If I May…

    Make it happen! Rock our world!!!

  7. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    Glad to get that off my chest. Any volunteers to help pull the points together and give some insights to help the PM deal with the situation.
    ……………………………………………………….
    It is simple my friend. Just open up the market and allow other providers to come in and give a better competitive service. We brought in Digicel and still have C & W main provider which is giving C & W a bigger monopolistic reign over its customers. Taking a statement from Technician, “C&W is not a charity and cares nothing about the local consumers”

  8. RE Engineer Avatar
    RE Engineer

    I have applied to Freemotion for broadband service. I will let you guys know how it goes. Talk time is over, time for action.

  9. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @ Chris

    If one company can earn $90M you think we could bring in 10 providers that would be willing to settle for $9M each? or even reduce the rates so that one would earn $5M?

    Could you say why Sunbeach has not been able to roll out its mobile service?

    Chris, would you agree that so long as the copper network is in the hands of the private sector, there will always be monopolistic behaviour? It is believed that it would be unrealistic for another network to be laid in Barbados.

    “C&W is not a charity and cares nothing about the local consumers”

    I would prefer to get the low service at a cheaper price.

  10. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    This is where the GOB can help the consumer.
    There is a lot of cellular technology out there in use now, while on vacation, I met a guy last 3 weeks in NY who sells books for a living on Flatbush Ave.
    This guy has a POS terminal which uses cellular technology. If you have your debit or credit card, you pay with it.
    This, as I say is a vendor selling books. He told me he was using this for years.
    Imagine how this technology would make the big hired car dealers feel by having the transaction done on the spot instead of waiting to get back to the office, only to find out the card declines.
    If the GOB could assist in reducing the duties or giving some incentives for the use of new technology, I am sure others would take the risk to bring them in.
    In NY, Verizon was once the big boss, look at he services Optimum are now offering.

  11. RE Engineer Avatar
    RE Engineer

    @ROK

    “If one company can earn $90M you think we could bring in 10 providers that would be willing to settle for $9M each? or even reduce the rates so that one would earn $5M?

    Could you say why Sunbeach has not been able to roll out its mobile service?”

    From what has been explained to me, anytime a company has to connect to anything via C&W a wrench is put in their plans, even though by law C&W must ‘rent out’ their equipment at a cost that is similar to the cost to them to use and maintain it. But as said many times C&W is not a charity so they either charge exorbitant rates or give horrible network quality which significantly reduces any other company ability to penetrate the market. As was mentioned above Sunbeach’s internet still has to pass through C&W landline network so even if Sunbeach is faster or more efficient and has a better quality service, it is limited by C&W interconnectivity. As for cellphone service this is clearly evident, they have limited the number of towers that can be erected and C&W owns most of the towers which means companies have to share towers. Now the ridiculous interconnectivity costs are so blatant it isn’t funny, I can call Jamaica from my Digicel phone for less than I can call a C&W cellphone or landline, yet a digi to digi call costs next to nothing. So no wonder Sunbeach can’t even step foot in those turbulent waters, Digicel is a big fish in a big pond and they still struggle so imagine poor Sunbeach. So the only resort seems to be to go wireless and this is a huge investment, and that is what we have seen Telebarbados doing, but they still have a long way to go it seems.

  12. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    Anthony Gunn dead? When? How?

  13. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    Sen Kerrie Simmons said in a recent VOB dialogue that we should NOT fear the European Companies; after all they are already here. He mentioned Digicel and C&W as good examples as to why the EPA is a good thing.

    Thanks Kerrie you always have our best interests at heart…

  14. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    BAFBFP,

    Anthony Gunn passed about two years ago if my memory serves me correctly. He was ill. Can’t remember the details> I think he was a fairly bad asthmatic.

  15. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @ROK: “If one company can earn $90M you think we could bring in 10 providers that would be willing to settle for $9M each? or even reduce the rates so that one would earn $5M?”

    As I know you know, it doesn’t work exactly like that… However, it does indicate that there is upside available for companies who are willing to take risks, *if* *they* *were* *able* to.

    @ROK: “Could you say why Sunbeach has not been able to roll out its mobile service?”

    I’m afraid this is a topic I cannot speak to because of confidential knowledge.

    I *can* say that Sunbeach are claiming to still be working towards building out a cellular play. Further, a company called “Last Mile Holdings” have also starting to make noise about doing so by early next year. We will see…

    @ROK: “Chris, would you agree that so long as the copper network is in the hands of the private sector, there will always be monopolistic behaviour? It is believed that it would be unrealistic for another network to be laid in Barbados.”

    I *strongly* disagree that there will always be monopolistic behaviour with the copper plant in private hands. There is absolutely no need for this, so long as appropriate regulation and fair-and-equitable access was in place.

    It *is* true that is financially unrealistic for another telephone copper network to be built out in Barbados — same as everywhere else in the world. However, importantly, in markets which are truly liberalized, competitive carriers have access to the copper plant at the same rate the owners of the network have access to it.

    Indirect access to the copper plant is made available by way of Two Stage dialing (Calling Cards), Equal Access dialing (1 +) and Indirect Access dialing (10-10 dialing). These policies *already* exist here in Barbados, but have not yet been enforced.

    Direct access to the copper plant is by way of Local Loop Unbundling — for which a policy does not yet exist, and probably won’t for at least several more months. (And even that’s naively hopeful…)

    Another, very important point, however: I believe there is a workable business case for a hybrid co-ax network to be built out here in Barbados. This is traditionally known as “Cable TV”, which can be used for the classic “Triple Play” of TV, Telephony and Internet.

  16. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @C.Halsall: “I recently made a post on BFP making an offer to any lawyer who had any balls…”

    It’s now been more than 24 hours. No one has contacted me on my above.

    Please forgive me for this, but if we were in the “land of plenty” several people would have already contacted me, seeking information.

    Do we in Barbados actually have any balls? Or are we comfortable with our hands grabbing our ankles, thinking of England?

    (Please note: this is intentionally provocative… The fundamental question is, do we have it within us to fight for our rights, or are we simply pathetic (and are willing to have something else within us…)? Time will tell…)

  17. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    Another, very important point, however: I believe there is a workable business case for a hybrid co-ax network to be built out here in Barbados. This is traditionally known as “Cable TV”, which can be used for the classic “Triple Play” of TV, Telephony and Internet.
    —————————————————————————————————–
    Chris, dont know if you knew this but it was tried and tested and failed by C$W years ago.
    All because of politics and greed between the then 2 monopolies in this country. The project was from Kent, all the way up to St.Davids.The cable was run and the equipment installed. It was to provide internet, telephony and television all in one neat package. Never got off the ground though. Politics I tell ya!!

  18. .22 Avatar
    .22

    @ Chris Halsall: “Another, very important point, however: I believe there is a workable business case for a hybrid co-ax network to be built out here in Barbados. This is traditionally known as “Cable TV”, which can be used for the classic “Triple Play” of TV, Telephony and Internet.”

    When will the hybrid co-ax network become available in Barbados? I don’t know if you have any details about it and its progress, Mr Halsall.

    It has been long overdue for this country to be introducing newer technologies that is capable of providing a mass variety like the aforementioned (Triple TV, Telephony & Internet).

  19. .22 Avatar
    .22

    Lil’ Off d’ Topic:

    Barbados Consumer Watch – Report:
    “Cable & Wireless to be renamed LIME”

  20. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @Technician: “Chris, dont know if you knew this but it was tried and tested and failed by C$W years ago.”

    Yes, I was aware of this. This doesn’t, however, mean a thing in my mind…

    After all, just about every other Caribbean island *does* have a cable TV network. What is special about Barbados which means it can’t work here? Nothing…

    C$W didn’t *want* it to work. Why would they want an alternative network which could compete with themselves?

    Please note that, for example, Columbus Networks have recently purchased the Cable TV network in Trinidad, and are offering “Triple Play” services.

    @.22: “When will the hybrid co-ax network become available in Barbados? I don’t know if you have any details about it and its progress, Mr Halsall.”

    Absolutely no progress. Access to the utility poles needs to be worked out — yet another issue which is going to take years to resolve…

  21. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @All… If I May…

    I would like to enter into evidence to this court of public opinion the following (public) evidence…

    http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/cps_option/responses/c_w.pdf

    Again, for the record, this is a publicly available document, to anyone with a web browser and a (working) Internet connection. Therein, C&W (UK) (who are in that domain a CLEC (read: a competitor))) argue thusly:

    “Competition will only succeed in delivering benefits to end users if providers are rewarded according to their success in serving their customers’ needs. This sis why it is so vital that all providers, including BT’s [Ed: BT == British Telecom, the incumbent, in the UK] downstream wholesale and retail business and its competitors, receive monopoly inputs on the same terms and conditions. That way an operator is not rewarding according to the preferential terms it offers itself for access network bottleneck products and competition is thus able to flourish.”

    …humm…

    So I submit to this court of public opinion the following:

    Do the laws of physics work differently in England than they do here in Barbados?

    Do the laws of Economics work differently in England than they do here in Barbados?

    Does Mathematics work differently… [Ed: your point is made!]

    So perhaps someone might step forward to answer why C$W (UK) can argue one position in Britan (as a CLEC), while C$W (BB) argues the exact opposite position here in Bim where they are the ILEC.

    Anyone? Anyone at all?

    (But, please, don’t trust what I say… Download the document linked to above, and form your own conclusion…)

  22. .22 Avatar
    .22

    @ Chris Halsall: “Absolutely no progress. Access to the utility poles needs to be worked out — yet another issue which is going to take years to resolve…”

    Well, its almost a sad state our fellow Caribbean territories like Jamaica and T&T has left us in the dust and little has been done to keep up with technology that is not put to use.

    Otherwise we could have been happier campers than now.

  23. Danny Poetra Avatar
    Danny Poetra

    This blog give me information that i need … tx 🙂

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