Visitor Driving Permit From $10 To $100

‘The effect on our business will be devastating. Considering that what the Prime Minister has done is effectively removed our ability to sell 1, 2 and 3 day rentals. We simply cannot absorb this increase’.

‘My fear is that we will have such a significant downturn that jobs will be lost and the ripple effect will be felt at all attractions’

One of our leading Car Rental Agencies


What effect will this ONE THOUSAND per cent increase have on our Car Rental companies?

Will it also impact negatively on our attractions like St. Nicholas Abbey, Andromeda, Flower Forest and Orchid World and our many restaurants. And will this result in overall reduced income for Government and further jeopardise the viability of the tourism sector?

With car rental rates already among the highest in the region is this going to further push the cost of a holiday on Barbados above many peoples reach? Car Rental companies will already have to absorb or pass on increased costs of vehicle licences.

Our registered accommodation providers again will have to absorb or pass on the 50% increase in liquor licences and the 50% increase on alcoholic taxes have still to be evaluated. We all understand Government’s have to collect taxes but was there a better way of introducing this massive hike on the visitors driving permit?

Perhaps it could have been made a three year licence to encourage people to return again soon!

Did representatives from the car rental industry discuss this increase prior to its imposition? And, importantly, what is the average duration of rental, as if it’s only two or three days, the increase is even more of a deterrent?

Adrian Loveridge

84 comments

  • Adrian Loveridge
    Along with all you’ve mentioned, is the increase of airline tickets, the cost of checking baggage in some cases. When you look at it, tourist will soon try to maximise their couple dollars at a cheaper destination. We seem to be illiminating the average tourist to this country. We’re looking at almost 20% in travel expense to be on vacation in Barbados. Small car hire companies will fold under pressure. Maybe there is someway the gov’t can correct this. We must remember that a lot of tourist who came on holiday are just as poor or worse off than we are.

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  • The issue of how Barbados respond to the rising cost of living is and will continue to be a challenge. Good monitoring of the industry with the feedback to the appropriate ministry will be important. We should remember that decisions made by the government are not casted in stone and can be tweaked if required.

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  • I have no problem paying it but I believe Gov’t might have to revisit it because contrary to the beliefs of many Barbadians a lot of “tourists” who visit Barbados are not rich. They generally visit via a package. I believe that the average Barbadian when he/she comes home put more into the economy. They spend at the supermarkets, the small shops, etc.

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  • Hear, hear, David. I really do believe that the government will realise the effect of this onerous increase and adjust is accordingly. The amount of money involved would not even amount to the cost of a minister’s overseas jolly.

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  • By the way, David, you do know that the permit is for driving and not diving?

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  • @Peltdownman

    Although we have not scanned all the fees properly it may just be a case of moving all the fees upwards because they have not moved in many years.

    Thanks Peltdown!

    David

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  • We travel to Barbados 3 or 4 times a year, as we are lucky enough to own a very small studio on the West Coast. This enormous increase in the cost of a visitor driving permit will really impact on our guests who rent our studio, and who may only want to hire a car for a couple of days, so that they can drive round and appreciate the rest of the island. It will make car hire prohibitively expensive, as most of the people we know are on a very tight budget, and are not rich tourists. of course the biggest losers will be the smaller rental companies.

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  • Adrian Loveridge

    Too late was the cry!

    Already ‘24,086,762 travellers from 190 countries (who) planned trips here this week’

    are reading about the propsed 1000% increase.

    Which site?

    TripAdvisor of course.

    Barbados Forum

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  • There goes my car rental. Oh well.

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  • I think that Owen Arthur’s speech AND the reply of PM Thompson were great contributions. It was a good contrast in their different philosophies and styles of management.

    It was good that the PM announced some compromise in the matter of the visitor’s driving permit and that the $3000 income tax allowance for savings in credit unions is in addition to the $10,000 already provided for.

    I like the cautious approach of the Government.

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  • I respect you Devil even at times when we dont agree! But I agree with you right now!

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  • Wishing In Vain

    Please settle all of you in the car rental business the PM will address the matter and being the sensible caring person that he is it will be addressed.

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  • Loveridge,

    Shut to hell up you greedy bastard.

    You would even want the people of Barbados to pay all the bills for your hotel so you could operate it scot free.

    Go and look for someone else to exploit.

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  • PM Thompson has admitted he will revisit the hired car fee. Some will say it is a sign of weakness he did not anticipate the feedback on this matter and others will applaud his willingness to listen. Our position is his government has been in place for 6 months and we will not be too harsh in our criticism at this time.

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  • Pingback: Global Voices Online » Barbados: Tourist Trap

  • It would seem to me that to take the Car Rental Permit to US$ 50.00 will kill all the one and two day rentals which in turn will have a very negative impact on all attractions. One wonders what that increase will meant to the government coffers as compared to what they would recieve in VAT from the short rentals visiting attractions ,restaurants etc.
    Seems rather an unimaginative way of increasing revenue. Looking at 77% of GDP going to pay foreign debt a budget of restraint would have made more sense at this time.

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  • PM Thompson has admitted he will revisit the hired car fee. Some will say it is a sign of weakness he did not anticipate the feedback on this matter and others will applaud his willingness to listen. Our position is his government has been in place for 6 months and we will not be too harsh in our criticism at this time.
    ________________________

    David, don’t you agree that if the PM had really consulted with the stakeholders prior to the budget delivery, like he said he did, that he ought to have been informed of the cruel effect such an enormous increase in the visitor permit fee would have. In fact, don’t you think that if the PM was himself involved in the preparation of the budget (and I am beginning to believe not) that he ought to have envisaged the effect such an enormous increase would have. It scares me to think that we have a PM who lacks the foresight, vision, the ability to just THINK! What does being in office for only 6 month have to do with basic common sense? I am beginning to see a trend here. First there was the diesel increase, then 6 weeks later he revisit that. Now not even a good 48 hours after the budget proposals passed in parliament and he revisiting the fee for the visitor permit. This can only be described as gross incompetence. It’s about time you stop finding excuses.

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  • Insulted?
    Who are these people with strange names and such stupid arguments?
    So reversing two decisions when citizens protest is a sign of incompetence? Who is insulted by that? It sounds like responsiveness to me…

    incompetence is awarding a contract to upgrade a road without engineering plans, without a firm price and against the advice of engineers…$400M worth

    Incompetence is having the prison burn down under your watch… and then hiring a crooked firm to build the new one – (another couple HUNDRED million dollars)

    incompetence is another word for ‘Greenland ‘ and ‘Hardwood’ and ‘immigration’….

    At worst, the two reversals by the PM can be put down to a harmless learning experience in comparison.

    There are so many sensible areas that can be criticized – why pick on stupid ones?

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  • Bush Tea
    You seem awfully uptight and bitter. But then again, yuh name Bush Tea. It seems any argument which conflicts with yours automatically becomes a stupid argument. I refuse to have any debate with your biased one-sided myopic, narrow-minded kind. It would be unproductive and a waste of time of my part.

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  • It takes a BIG man to admit to a blunder. That’s what the P.M. did today, none of us are perfect. However, he must be careful not to make these mistakes to often or it WILL show weakness. It is a new gov’t and subject to mistakes, that’s why the others should learn from the P.M and put their resignation at the discretion of the P.M i.e the SSA board. He could admonish them and rehire most if not all but to behave in an arrogant manner will get this administration into troublesome waters. Let’s remember they are dealing with seasoned campaigners who know parlimentary systems. Kudos to you Mr Thompson for being THE MAN on this one

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  • Look people $10 dollars was wa too little.. In my opinion 50usd really aint nothing to hollah about.. any of you ever rented a car overseas.. stupess I cant believe wannah making noise about 50usd that visitors willnow have to pay … try to get a liscens anywhere in the states or canada you will pay no less that $80usd cant over it bajans .. we find issues over things that we really should not be having issues about.. stupess..

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  • Gapp it costs $10 to get a licence in central FL.
    You can come here and drive with your Barbados licence and pay nothing to do so.

    Run up and bowl again, you are talking bovine excrement!

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  • I have to agree with the guy who asks Adrian Loveridge what he really expects from a Minister of Finance. Does Adrian think that Ministers of Finance really tell people what they propose to do to hear what they think? That would be a recipe for inaction and confusion. Consultation is simply that: discussion.

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  • David,

    Now that this discussion has died down I would like to put a slightly different spin on the issue…
    …as my second ‘hero’ Albert Einstein said, ‘we cannot solve our problems with the same thinking that created them’….

    I feel that the license fee could have signaled a clear policy by government that we want to discourage ‘tourist drivers’ in Barbados and to encourage them instead to use the taxi, limo and other services that are provided.

    Barbados is already overcrowded with vehicles and the last thing we need now is more ‘tourist’ learning to drive on our already crazy roads.
    We also have hoards of underused taxi owners and drivers who are part of the tourism sector – this would have been a stroke in their favour – even if it is against the rich folks who ‘contribute’ to our economy by importing scores of automobiles to add to our overcrowded roads and undercut taxis etc.

    Of course the hire car moguls will be unhappy (and we know how noisy they can be…) but why should their interest be paramount ?

    …are there not countries (Bermuda?) where tourist CANNOT drive themselves?

    Mind you, -I am not unhappy that the PM reconsidered – it shows humanity rather than the arrogance that we had become accustomed to….
    but for a moment I saw a different thinking…

    Bush tea feels strongly that tax measures are KEY to managing and fine tuning an economy. The PM can reward good behaviors and punish undesirable ones.
    The problem with cross-the-board VAT is that while funds come in, the economy is largely left to the whims and fancies of the rich and powerful…. the approach of PM Thompson is a refreshing change.

    Here is Bush tea’s suggestion for future changes:-
    1) A direct tax benefit for any Company hiring a Bajan who has been unemployed for 6 month or more….. see how soon the blocks will empty.

    2) Massive taxes levied on all private properties blocking access to the beach view – based on a true valuation of that prime estate to national tourism…. nuff windows to our beaches.

    3) Massive tax refunds to ZR operators who complete a full year with less than 4 traffic violations ($5,000 refund of registration fee)….. …end of ZR madness.

    4) Financial support to youth organizations based on the actual work that they do (stop wasting funds on BYS -scouts, cadets etc deserve more support)…… more effective youth programs

    etc….

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    5) $1 for every comment posted on BU and BFP… ($10 if the comment is politically partisan)…

    whu loss… we gine fill de treasury! 🙂

    Seriously though… those are some really innovative ideas… I nominate BT for BU Shadow Minister of Finance AND Social Transformation… jus doan let him anywhere near Energy.

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  • @BT

    For a man who professes to believe but holds the Atheist Einstein in such high regard. We we suppose we shouldn’t hold that against him!

    Your recommendations are very futuristic with relevance. We applaud you.

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  • It appears that this BushTea fella has a brain that works despite his time up Waterford.LOL

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  • David,

    Einstein was somewhat like MME, hopeless in terms of BBE’s plan, but clearly a brilliant engineer with a mind out of his world…. You have to admire them.

    Thanks for the compliment MME, coming from you it means a lot…. even the energy snipe… I assume you are saying that that portfolio would be not enough of a challenge for The Bush man? LOL

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  • et tu GP?
    …well then fall Bush tea…

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    @BT

    Einstein must have spun several times in his grave just now… I am but a Planck length speck in the dirt on the sole of Einstein’s garden shoes.

    @ David

    labeling Einstein an atheist is an injustice… although at various stages of his life he referred to himself that way, you need to examine the full context within which he made those statements. His views were more aligned with Pantheism. Here are a few statements which he made that give some insight on his philosophy:

    * “You will hardly find one among the profounder sort of scientific minds without a peculiar religious feeling of his own . . . .His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection”

    * “My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior Spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. The deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning Power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God. “

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  • @MME

    Gosh MME you are full of surprises, Pantheism?? Where did that come form??

    We have always had a problem with how many of you Scientist grudgingly give to God what is truely his, full due by using the language which says so please!

    Pantheism my Godness!!!

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  • …. you see what I mean David, MME just like Albert E ( and they are both masters at words – you can’t beat them)
    … so MME you are saying then that Albert E recognised the BBE concept, and from his understanding of science saw himself as a MME (i almost said “lowly” MME – but then we would need to find a new title for you. LOL ) like us?

    I like Einstein because he was able to arrive at BBE from the science of the world around us rather than through religious dogma… truly brilliant….

    ….and I like Thompson because he has matured beyond his youthful arrogance to become a wise, humble and tolerant leader. (we can thank the women in his life and Clyde Mascoll for that..)
    …If only he did not have the challenge of leading during the ‘project end game’…. and having to do it after being handed a tainted mantle…

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  • Bush Tea I LOVE YOUR IDEAS!

    I thought I only GP but wow you are on my fan club and lets not forget the BU family!

    At least they are people in and out of Barbados who really care!

    I hope the Government’s press is reading!

    Thompson please listen!

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    LOL BT.

    @ David,

    Doan get tie up… I am a Christian (obviously not one of the best)… I was just pointing out that Einstein believed in God, just not a personal God, and he was not an atheist.

    As far as your swipe at scientists, I agree with you that many do fit your description… but I have never understood all the fuss, as science asks “how the universe works” and religion asks “why the universe work”… and NEVER shall the two meet (… at least not in Phase 1 🙂 ). Further, I think that the relentless pursuit of “how” is one of the greatest tributes a creation can pay to its Creator… some might even say that “in this materialistic age of ours the serious scientific workers are the only profoundly religious people”

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  • For MME and those that would like to know:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/may/12/peopleinscience.religion

    “The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.” – Albert Einstein

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  • To MME and others please see:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/may/12/peopleinscience.religion

    To BU: I tried to send this before but it seemed to disappear into cyberspace (or so I think). If the initial post turns up then delete this one.

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    … every “how” question answered takes us a Planck length closer to BBE. Our “whys” must sound like the monotonous whine of a child to BBE’s ears.

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    LOL Devil… it’s just like you to try to lay claim to a brilliant MME… looking for someone to fix that heating problem down there?

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  • The Devil,
    (not that I feel comfortable discussing this particular topic with you ,LOL)…but here is a summary of Einstein’s position on God.
    **********************************
    “I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.”
    “In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.”

    “I’m not an atheist and I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.”
    *************************************
    Despite his brilliance, Albert (predictably) fails to grasp the concept of Project Earth, however what I find interesting is his conclusion, based ONLY on science, that this universe had to start at some point and therefore had to have a creator.
    While he (like Bush tea) dismissed the religions of the various cultures and also (unlike the Bush man) rejected the idea of a ‘personal God’ Einstein felt that science demonstrates that there IS a God.

    The Devil,
    …if you are interested, sometime I will explain why Einstein, and many other outstanding scholars (maybe even including MME ) will not be able to understand “Project Earth” and the personal God- even though they can breeze through integral calculus and quantum theory ideas….

    …so it is not that Einstein was a great Christian or that he preached the word like Paul etc- on the contrary, I am impressed that he independently and by his own great intellect concluded that there MUST be a BBE..

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  • BT

    In my humble opinion as a piece of scientist, I think that this Scripture will help you explain your point.

    I Corinthians 2:14-16

    14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
    16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    …just for clarity, my previous post should have read “… lay claim to a brilliant MME like Einstein”. Wouldn’t want it to seem as though I was speaking of myself.

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  • to Bush tea

    Albert E. and I are most interested. Albert is visiting for a short time with me (sometimes it feels like eternity..) Albert complains so much, I tell him that we can always curve that space-time continuum into a Reimann surface to shorten his stay but then Euclid feels that I making fun at him. Scientists!

    Ah back to you Bush tea, I eagerly (and in all seriousness) await your explanation.

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    … I have a feeling it gine be cat piss and pepper in here after BT’s next reply to the Devil. 🙂

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  • MME
    …seems like you have something up your sleeve
    What cat piss and pepper what?!?
    this will be a simple matter…

    Ok Devil, (as if you did not know…)
    So BBE, whose brilliance makes even Einstein feel like a baby in a library, initiates a project whose objective is so unprecedented in scope that everything else is largely insignificant in comparison.
    Central to this project are MMEs, which are mortal, temporary beings created in “BBE’s image. ”
    These MMEs are undergoing a kind of beta testing in an environment that is precisely designed to test specific characteristics needed for advancement to phase 2.

    Obviously, under normal circumstances, MMEs like Albert E and our own MME (with their brilliant and incisive minds) would have a clear advantage in deciphering the ‘secrets of life’ and, through their gift of intellect, be guaranteed success in the REAL purpose of life.

    BUT INTELLECT IS NOT THE QUALIFYING CHARACTERISTIC…..therefore..

    Even a lowly MME like Bush tea can see that BBE would need to ‘level the playing field’ in terms of MMEs’ ability to understand the intricacies of the Project.

    This has been achieved in a stroke of supernatural genius such that the ability to understand the concepts of the Project is equally and freely available to every MME, but is completely independent of intellectual capacity.

    ….I could have said exactly what Georgie Porgie said – but Bush tea has updated the language, jargon and concepts to suit modern times…. although I will admit that Paul said it better in Corinthians…

    Albert E is thus a special example in that, Despite his immense intellect, the specifics of the Project eluded him, ….while a retarded Bajan sap like Bush tea can be a Project specialist…..

    What design! What engineering! What a Project!

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  • My apologies for not responding. A combination of a migraine (made worse by the pounding sound of “music” being played quite some distance away) and the disquiet my spirit feels after reading the many posts on the other threads. I have to wonder if some of my jinnis are playing with the computers.

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    BT,

    You have posited that intellect is not the qualifying characteristic. I agree… but ironically rather than come straight out and say that the qualifying characteristic is WISDOM, you and GP have used all kinda esoteric INTELLECTUAL language and scripture to confuse us plebs 🙂

    … but getting back to the substantive issue, your earlier post seemed to suggest that intellect is actually a hindrance (“Einstein, and many other outstanding scholars (maybe even including MME ) will not be able to understand Project Earth”). I was anticipating an explanation of that position… but I guess I’ll have to keep that response up my sleeve a little longer… 🙂

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  • Sorry MME, it is NOT wisdom either. (that too is a gift and does not really make the recipient and ‘better’ that anyone else… remember Solomon?).

    Intellect is a hindrance in the same way that wealth is a hindrance. these both lead the MME to depend on this asset to understand the Project details…. futile…

    …note that both the brightest (Einsteins, Newtons, you name them… as well as the richest – from Gates to the many Bajan west coast residents- have no idea of the great news of the project and instead waste their lives on cocaine, sex, parties and other distractions which seek to fill that void that has been designed into MMEs to compel us to seek fulfillment in the Project plans.

    However, when you are poor or foolish (or preferably both…) you just ask!!!
    (..as Jesus said -Blessed are the poor…)

    What Design! What brilliant simplicity!

    …. I will give you another shot at the qualifying characteristic… I KNOW you will get it…

    a riddle – what was special about the Adanac?

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  • Kissing Drawers?! …that’s the secret?! Warm or cold does it matter…?

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  • lord have mercy…., et tu diabolos?
    you from down dey too?…

    What drawers what
    Man, Bush tea can’t win a thing with wanna three dreads, Devil, MME and GP….
    ok!!!
    ….the riddle was just to be dramatic…(as in “what makes Adanacians special?”)… and I don’t need a TFN perspective…LOL.

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  • GP is a hermit! Whaloss, he did agric? so he is bush doctor!

    Anyway I expect you to say the secret is Righteousness.

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  • @ The Devil

    You are correct GP is a hermit!

    No I did not study agric, but I helped raise the pigs, chickens and sheep in my day. I also used to fork up de garden for my mother.

    I am not a bush doctor either but I had some bush tea a few times as a lad in the 50’s.

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  • GP, were you there with Mellows? What did you study?

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  • Dont think I know Mellows.
    I studied a little bit of doctoring at UWI.

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    Tzedek – being right, doing right, putting right.

    Without wisdom one cannot be “wholly righteous”… Indeed, for MMEs, righteousness will always be an elusive goal (in phase 1). Our redeeming quality is having the WISDOM to exercise our free will in submission to BBE’s righteousness.

    “we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousnesses are as filthy rags” (Isa. 64:6)

    “There is none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3:10)

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  • Devil,
    Man leave GP alone, you should be able to tell that he is a gog-
    What hermit what?!?
    I meant that GP don’t give Bush tea an easy time – just like you and MME…. You know that a ‘medical hermit’ is an oxymoron too…

    ….I was waiting on MME’s response, but for your information Devil- ‘Righteousness’ is not attainable by a MME. If that was the qualifier we would all be doomed. The project would be a failure.

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  • Good try MME, that is exactly what the Jews think too but is is not exactly right and could be VERY misleading. (That would require a clearcut ‘RIGHT’ and as I am sure you know, there is no such thing really.
    …enough drama, The qualifying characteristic is one of the few things that cannot be created, cannot be given as a gift and cannot be short-circuited. It is CHARACTER.

    Phase 1 is a specially created laboratory, the ultimate objective of which is to create a cadre of MMEs who have been able to develop a special character that is BBE-like.

    ..such a MME would then be truly like BBE ‘in spirit’ and since MMEs are already created in the physical image of BBE – it would not be unreasonable to refer to MME with such a character as ‘Sons of BBE’.

    … before GP set me right with the appropriate scriptures, I want to say that this information is repeated over and over in your bible, but as we started out by saying, it is not available for understanding just because you bright….

    …for example, the ‘Character of BBE’ is just my way of referring to what GP will call ‘the spirit of God’… and of course Jesus did explain that in order to enter the kingdom of God (phase 3?), one needs to be born of water (physically as a MME) AND of the spirit (ie Develop the Character of God)

    …and Devil, although there is some relationship to righteousness, Having the CHARACTER of BBE is more like “Having the kind of personality that naturally WANTS and strives to be righteous”

    naturally, GP will again quote Paul who often referred to the ‘internal fight’ between this newly developing ‘character’ and the old ‘temptations of the flesh’….

    …temptations like those that you used to harbour at Infinity huh Devil?

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    ‘BT… I humbly accept your “not exactly right”.

    You said: “Having the CHARACTER of BBE is more like Having the kind of personality that naturally WANTS and strives to be righteous”,

    I said: “Our redeeming quality is having the WISDOM to exercise our free will in submission to BBE’s righteousness.”

    CHARACTER is the embodiment of SEVERAL virtuous characteristics… WISDOM and submission to BBE (i.e. humility) is the means by which one develops that CHARACTER.

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    Infinity… LOL.

    Oh, to experience those days again. There’s an old saying “don’t worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it starts avoiding you”.

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  • I could only take Infinity in small doses. I am still digesting this character quality and the old brain seems a bit dull tonight. I would start with at a fundamental point. What happens to those MMEs that don’t get character? According to you :

    “cannot be created, cannot be given as a gift and cannot be short-circuited.”

    The old time religion said something about all falling short but a way is provided …are you saying otherwise?

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    The Devil asked: “What happens to those MMEs that don’t get character?”

    Look around Iblis, you’re surrounded by them.

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  • Well I guess that all MMEs develop character. But I suppose that The Devil is referring to those who do not develop the Character of BBE – ie practically everyone…

    The Devil is trying to be smart, I am quite sure he asked that question with a twinkle in his eye… LOL

    Here is another riddle….

    If you have a family then you would have created hundreds of millions of MMMMAEs in an interestingly similar exercise; one that parallels BBE’s project.
    (MMMME = Milli Micro Mini Mock Apprentice Engineer or M4AE for short)

    These M4AEs (called Sperm in the real world) would have existed for a limited time span, in a specialized environment and unbeknown to them, their goal in their brief existence would have been to combine your character (DNA) with an elusive egg provided by your female partner.

    If only one sperm out of hundreds of millions were to succeed, and the phase 2 development (pregnancy) be completed successfully -What great joy and happiness in your family!! What success!!

    …. or do you have a period of mourning for the 999 million sperm that did not succeed?

    …It is a matter of relatives; The loss of millions of M4AEs pales into insignificance at the joy and magnitude of a successful phase 2 M4AE to MME transition.
    Extrapolate….
    ..Can you imagine the jubilation at a MME to BBE transition?!?

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    BT, you forgot (intentionally?) to mention what that elusive egg represents in your analogy… for therein lies the real secret of successful transition. 🙂

    Dem M4AE can swim as fast as dey like, with all the character in the world… watch wisdom in action:

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=09kLIsNfaO8

    LOL

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    … jokes aside, my point being… they all (to greater or lesser degrees) have character, but it the wisest of them that succeeds… and it is not as you suggest millions of M4AE to each egg… where the analogy fails, is that there are in fact an infinite number of ‘eggs’ and each M4AE can make the transition with the knowledge that his ‘egg’ is there if only he makes right (WISE) choices… his success is not contingent on getting there before another M4AE.

    I wonder what GP thinks of your “survival of the fittest” philosophy to salvation. 🙂

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  • MME, You really have to leave wisdom out of this equation. It is just about as relevant as brain power, agility and money – i.e. ZILCH!!
    … in fact Wisdom is even easier that money or agility; it is free gift from BBE, it is any MME’s for the asking… although you may wish to note that it is rarer that gold…

    These things are all great to have, but as far as achieving the transition!!! –
    What wisdom what!?!
    …does a successful M4AE display any special ‘wisdom’ (your reference video excepted)

    ….at the MME -BBE transition stage, it is not a case of ‘survival of the fittest’, it is rather a case of ‘running the experiment until a maximum number of positive results are achieved….’

    …in fact, since you are appealing to GP for some help, he could refer you to the prophesy which says that the project will only be terminated at the point where “…except those days be shortened (ended), there would be no flesh left alive…”

    …I would call that ‘maxing out the project to squeeze out all the possible transitions’ ….wouldn’t you?

    …and MME, leave out this wisdom thing – this is just like your ingenious energy solution to the oil crisis… ‘Ain’t going to happen…’

    …..once we agree on the relative insignificance of wisdom, I will tell you how that character is achieved… You engineers tend to look for difficult solutions all the time…LOL

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  • BT|

    I am not a Micro Mock Engineer (IANAMME), but bear with me while I plead the plebs case.

    You say , come the apocalypse, only those of proven character will be ascended to the New World Order.

    And of those so ordained, only the paragon of the fittest will survive the fertilisation, the remainder will be “character” assinated and dribble down the earth mother’s leg.

    Pray tell how extensive will be the MME ejaculation, and who after this fearsome selection process will be the chosen half dozen to accompany yourself to the second phase.

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    … just when I thought BT had exhausted my fuel supplies, in sails ST, aka IANAMME, like a full tanker of oil from Trinidad. 🙂

    BT, I think we need to distinguish between two types of wisdom… that which MMEs falsely create for themselves, as illustarated by the following:

    “For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief.” (Ecclesiastes 1:18)

    “Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?” (I Corinthian 1:20)

    “There is no wisdom, no insight, no plan that can succeed against the Lord.” (Proverbs 21:30)

    “The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the Lord, what kind of wisdom do they have?” (Jeremiah 8:9)

    “The wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish.” (Isaiah 29:14)

    … I believe this is your point.

    However, there is the WISDOM which I speak of… that which comes from BBE, as illustrated by the following:

    “Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such ‘wisdom’ does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil.” (James 3:13-15)

    “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow His precepts have good understanding.” (Psalm 111:10)

    “For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding.” (Proverbs 2:6)

    … in other words, the WISDOM spoken of in the parable of the foolish and WISE builders.

    But it gets even more interesting… to truly understand the wisdom I refer to (as distinct from intelligence) is to appreciate the beauty, simplicity and elegance of natural selection… I’ll leave it there for now 🙂

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    … its finding the easy solutions that keeps us MMEs employed. 🙂

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  • ST,
    You ARE a Micro Mock Engineer!!! … that is exactly the point….. Just like M4AEs are sperm.

    In the grand scheme of things we ain’t worth ‘what paddy shot at…’ (as my mother used to say).

    This talk of ‘only those of proven character…’ and MME’s ‘each M4AE can make the transition…’ presupposes that we are important beings that somehow DESERVE this opportunity to transition.

    NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.

    Indeed, if only one MME transitions to become a BBE, that alone would be an event of inter galactic proportions.

    …..and ST, why are you picking on Bush tea? a mere messenger? It is NOT my design, I am merely here in the marketing department trying to hold my little pick…

    …so how come you are not complaining about all those M4AEs that you send to their deaths night after night? LOL

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  • WAIT MME, is that you?!? or GP?

    …you got a google bible? I ain’t get hit with scriptures like that since the 1970’s in Sunday school dueling…

    …I like I done with this thread yuh…..
    First of all the Devil he self in here playing he innocent; GP on the sidelines with a red flag waiting to call all cawmere men offside….; ST just decide to relaunch he attack and now MME quoting scriptures left right and center…..
    anyhow…
    MME, even the second example of wisdom that you gave has NOTHING to do with the transition. I agree that wisdom is a great thing, it leads to an understanding of the fundamental spiritual laws -and a wise man will reap the successes of this life…. like Solomon did (and Bush tea does, LOL In fact, in at least one respect, Bush tea is 1000 times BETTER than Solomon – I only have ONE wife -LOLLLL)

    But in terms of the ULTIMATE objective of joining that elusive egg and beginning the magical process of transition to BBEhood….Useless!!!

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    LOL… I give up… but surely you wouldn’t be so Philistine as to leave this thread before sharing your version of “how that character is achieved”.

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  • BT

    I watching from the sidelines.

    I just read this in a St Kitts paper on line about polsters & the election in Grenada

    Is Wickham losing his credibility?

    http://www.pamdemocrat.org/newspaper/Details.cfm?Nz=%2A4W%21P5IN%3DDWNO10%20%20&Iz=%23%2A%228K

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  • Thanks for the reference GP, I was just here laughing at BU David – I was reading his last article and his comments about how Wickhan turn against the Blogs now that he tight with the Government and the press again.
    I don’t know why David refuse to be guided by the Bush man. I have never found it possible, despite my best efforts, to say a good word about Wickham….
    ..the man is just a fraud – (no character MME LOL)
    Imagine his claim to fame is that Owing, probably when slightly tipsy, got George Belle to come up with such a stupid poll that it made Wickham look good.
    What Wickham what?!?

    David’s other two disappointments are Doc Marshall and Mr Worme of BL&P

    …..David, hopefully now you realize that most of our ‘friends’ are persons hoping to get something out of the friendship. When they realize that what YOU want is to get to the truth; to expose frauds and to promote transparency – the frauds will run away…

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  • OK MME, assuming that we are agreed on wisdom and righteousness, and since I am 100% Bajan and not in any way Philistine; here is Bush tea’s theory #20173 on “Character – the path to transition”.

    There are many Godly virtues; most of them can be achieved by dedication, hard work, by luck of birth, by gift, or by using natural physical and spiritual laws.

    By its very nature however, the development of a Godly character can only be realized by dint of successful experience. A Godly character is a personality that thinks like, reacts like, and does like, BBE would.

    Now here is where the situation became a little complicated.
    Through Adam, Abraham and finally Moses, BBE set up various basic standards of righteousness, which were used to establish what would be accepted as a Godly character at the time. – “Have you kept all the commandments?”
    The results were pathetic…it was clear throughout BBE_land that this was this was a waste of time and that hardly any MME would meet the required standards.

    (Before ST ask how come BBE did not know that this would be the case, let me touch on Bush tea theory #11675- ST, This was done so that MMEs could recognize for themselves the futility of things like wisdom, good works, luck or even sacrifice in achieving the character of BBE)

    Back in BBE_land, the most amazing event in the history of all existence was about to unfold…
    BBE was so personally committed to “The Project” that, in order to provide a means for MMEs to acquire the required character, an unprecedented REVERSE TRANSITION was arranged, providing an avenue through which MMEs could achieve the BBE Character and successfully transition. (read John 3:16 again now…)

    A Godly character is so foreign and advanced from MME technologies, that the only way it can be achieved in MMEs is by the implantation of the very mind of BBE into a MME.

    The bible refers to this as the ‘holy spirit’, and its implantation is available to ‘…whosoever believeth in him…” i.e. to anyone who is willing to accept that Jesus made a sacrifice of unthinkable proportions, providing the vital key needed to develop the character of BBE and thus enable MMEs to qualify for the transition.

    Note the new standard that Jesus brings to the definition of righteousness – no longer a question of just being able to DO the right things, but now the standard is ‘do you have the right thoughts; The right motivations? In short – Can you love your neighbors just like you love yourself? Can you love those that hate you? DO YOU THINK LIKE A BBE? (… even though limited by your physical MME liabilities?)

    So MME, the short answer to your question- you will need a special key in order to unlock your mind for openness to the Character of BBE. This key is called the ‘Holy Spirit’ and it is freely available at your asking….

    Another riddle?

    Why did Jesus answer the question of what is needed to enter the Kingdom of God by saying ‘You must be born again?’

    Answer:
    Birth no 1 – M4AE to MME
    Birth No 2 – MME to BBE

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  • A little too controversial BT to promote on this forum, that the essence of salvation is to love your Guyanese neighbour as thyself.

    This proposition will severely limit enlightenment.

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  • BT,

    You will get no more arguments from me on this subject… that is a sound theory if ever I heard one 🙂

    LOL ST.

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    BT,

    You will get no more arguments from me on this subject… that is a sound theory if ever I heard one 🙂

    LOL ST.

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    … but just one more question before I leave this subject.

    You said “This key is called the ‘Holy Spirit’ and it is freely available at your asking”.

    Would you consider those who ask for this freely available gift WISE?

    … the lawyers call that “asked and answered” 🙂

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  • Bush tea,

    In your earlier posts, I thought you were skating close to the edge (I had to check if one of my jinnis were posing as BT) but now you are back in familar territory – ” it is freely available at your asking….”
    Yuh too like to pompaset! If we were still on the Hermitage yuh bed would get wet tonight! Make yuh show some true character, LOL.

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  • The Devil,
    I am becoming more and more convinced that you are the real thing… A hermit sent some grubs to wet me out once….LOL LOL
    ..I always knew there was something sinister about that Hermitage… you have been there for decades havn’t you?

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  • I don’t want to be the devil’s advocate, but how does getting yourself killed according to plan, staying dead for three days, getting up, again according to plan, and then ascending to heaven qualify as “a sacrifice of unthinkable proportions”?

    Some might call it a theatrical performance or worse yet, a fraud.

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  • I don’t want to be the devil’s advocate, but how does getting yourself killed according to plan, staying dead for three days, getting up, again according to plan, and then ascending to heaven qualify as “a sacrifice of unthinkable proportions”?

    Some might call it a slick theatrical performance or worse yet, a fraud.

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  • …and you are free to call it what ever suits your fancy Inkwell.
    …however if I may use the analogy of the M4AE to MME parallel to explain the MME to BBE situation…

    …. this would be equivalent to you Inkwell, realizing that your wife was unable to have children and therefore build your family, and that the only hope was for a special micro biological component that only you could provide;

    The salvation of the situation requires you to have your DNA inserted into a M4AE and to give up your life so that M4AE and the special micro biological component can be implanted into her womb to fertilize and become the firstborn child, while at the same time, introducing the special “micro biological component” through which other children now have the opportunity to achieve life.

    Without your sacrifice, no successful births would have been possible….

    But you so love this wife…..etc etc

    …this would make you the original creator of the family; the sacrificial lamb, the first born of the father; the Saviour; etc etc, if you get my drift…

    … and you don’t see how this qualifies as a “sacrifice of unthinkable proportions”?

    Come on Inkwell…
    extrapolate….

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  • Seems as though I exposed a raw nerve that no one wants to touch with a ten foot pole. Thank you for the non sequitur, Bush Tea. An analogy should enlighten, not obfuscate, should it not? It is way above my humble head. But I have found that faith and reason do not make good bedfellows and seldom have common ground.

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