Adrian Loveridge Column – Contribution of the Cruise Industry During and Post Covid 19

Will it be about the quantity or the quality, both in terms of numbers and beneficial contribution when cruise ships finally return to Barbados?

Traditionally of course, we usually only see one or maybe two cruise ships arrive weekly during the long summer months, but come November under post pandemic conditions the Bridgetown Port is thriving with a multitude of cruise ships docking with passenger capacities ranging from 150 up to 6,000 persons plus crew.

Last week the world’s largest cruise line, Carnival Corporation reported a net loss of a staggering US$2.2 billion for the fourth quarter of their 2020 financial year. Their website boasts ‘the cruise lines within our portfolio include the most recognised brands in North America, the United Kingdom, Germany, Italy and Australia – areas that account for 85 percent of the world’s cruise passengers’.

Among those brands is Princess, which had no less than seven* of its ships (Grand, Diamond, Coral, Sun, Ruby, Pacific and Regal) involved in serious Covid-19 outbreaks and another two (Emerald and Royal) with suspected cases or given no-sail orders. *source: Wikipedia. Overall, as a consequence of the pandemic, so far Carnival has ‘accelerated the removal of 19, older less efficient ships, 15 of which have already left the fleet’.

To put that in overall perspective, those retired 19 ships represent approximately 13 per cent of pre-pause capacity and three per cent of operating income in 2019. Despite the groups astronomical losses, its chief executive (CEO), Arnold Donald, remains remarkably upbeat , stating ‘2020 has proven to be a true testament to the resilience of our company’.

Adding ‘We took aggressive actions to implement and optimize a complete pause in our guest cruise operations across all brands globally and developed protocols to begin our staggered resumption, first in Italy for our Costa brand, then followed by Germany for our Aida brand’.

‘We are now working diligently towards resuming operations in Asia, Australia, the United Kingdom and United States over the course of 2021’.

‘We are well positioned to capitalize on pent-up demand and to emerge a leaner, more efficient company, reinforcing our industry-leading position’.

At this stage no specific mention of the Caribbean has been made, which for decades has produced their single largest source for sales and passenger numbers, but Mr. Donald is quoted as stating ‘we are working toward having all our ships back in service by the end of the year’.

Clearly, this may encourage our tourism policymakers to plan for the upcoming winter 2021/22 season and to finally evaluate exactly how ‘we’ as a country can justify the massive taxpayer subsidies already spent on our local cruise infrastructure over the past decades, to ensure this ‘investment’ becomes truly cost-effective?

Will the cruise companies remember the overwhelming support given to repatriate passengers and crew during the most challenging times of their entire history, or will this be lost in the wind or stormy seas?

To ensure accuracy, I submitted this column to the media department at Carnival and Princess for any corrections and/or comments prior to submission.

Roger Frizzell, Carnival Corporation’s Senior Vice President and Chief Communications Officer, was gracious enough to respond personally with the following message:

‘We are extremely thankful and greatly appreciative of the assistance and support provided to our cruise lines and crew members during this difficult time’.

119 comments

  • Whether quantity or quality the results will be the same given history, culture, trajectory.

    The more important question must be -why is it so possible for an industry which has been failing for decades could be allowed to continue to hog both tits of the national budget.

    Like

  • @Pacha

    Your question can be legitimately asked about many things linked to the establishment.

    Like

  • Bring in all the disease Tourists allow them to spread their DISEASE IN BARBADOS where protocols are more lax and BLACK LIVES are not important:

    Like

  • David
    True.
    The difference here is that this industry has, come hell or high water, received no end of taxpayer support.

    That it continues to so do, we are shut off from possible alternatives. That is a developmental culdesac to be avoided.

    Like

  • “”Another new coronavirus variant found across California, including L.A. County””

    LA Times
    Jan. 17, 8.20pm

    Where are these cruise ships coming from to enter Barbados??????

    Like

  • @Pacha

    We have discussed many times the reasons why.

    A people unimaginative and lazy in thought?

    A group of SIDs marginalized by the MDCs perhaps?

    A people addicted to unbridled consumption behaviour?

    All the above?

    A pragmatic view is that we have to leverage capitalist system to feed the material man, to satisfy basic human needs. This will be the continual struggle until end times.

    Like

  • @ David
    What about a people doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results ?

    Like

  • David

    We are unsure whether “end times” should be seen in that way.

    However, we should plan for capitalism’s end.

    For it is impossible for socalled SIDs to continue to absorb the higher and higher demands extracted as capitalism goes through a downward evolutionary spiral.

    Like

  • If the tourism industry does not reach its pre-crisis level within 12-24 months, we will have to cut salaries for civil servants by at least 75 percent.

    We can no longer pay wages like in a developed country when our gross national product per capita is lower than that of most African countries.

    This as a warning to all those who think they can do without tourists.

    Tourism is the new sugar cane, hotels the new plantations, Sandals the new Drax Hall.

    Like

  • @William and Pacha

    The blogmaster has no issue with the view the definition of change is not being applied in the Caribbean space for whatever reason. It is perplexing.

    Like

  • peterlawrencethompson

    @Adrian
    I began to read this with such anticipation because the headline promised me that you would talk about the “CONTRIBUTION OF THE CRUISE INDUSTRY DURING AND POST COVID 19” to Barbados.

    You can sympathise with my disappointment at reading instead about the pathetic attempts by an exploitative and beleaguered cruise ship industry to rescue its own financial fortunes, without a single word about how Barbados might benefit despite the Caribbean being their “single largest source for sales and passenger numbers” and despite “the massive taxpayer subsidies already spent on our local cruise infrastructure over the past decades…”

    You are far too kind to the massive boondoggle that is the cruise ship industry in Barbados. It has always been an ecological disaster, a sociological cess pit, and an economic catastrophe. Now in the COVID era it is, in addition, a public health time bomb.

    You ask “our tourism policymakers to plan for the upcoming winter 2021/22 season and to finally evaluate exactly how ‘we’ as a country can justify the massive taxpayer subsidies…” but you are among the most experienced tourism experts on the island. Barbados has been good to you and it is now time for you to give back the benefit of your many decades of experience by helping to lead the industry with your wisdom and analysis.

    What then @Adrian, should we do with cruise ship industry policy in Barbados?
    1. Expand public investment by building new infrastructure to allow cruise ships to dock at Speightstown, despite the environmental devastation that will be caused by digging and maintaining adequate channels of sufficient draft for those ships.
    2. Allow more cruise ships to home port in Barbados so that we get a few more accommodation dollars from the pre and post cruise overnight stays, despite the cruise ship agenda of using Barbados as a home port to escape Center for Disease Control COVID restrictions on their activities because their current home port is Miami.
    3. Allow the large cruise ships to dock in Barbados without testing and quarantine protocols in place that are exactly the same as visitors arriving by other means, despite the fact that we know from our small cruise ship experiment earlier this year that testing and social distance on cruises does not stop COVID outbreaks.
    4. Shut down all local docking of cruise ships so that the inevitable surges they cause do not catastrophically ruin the embryonic long stay and remote work visitor business that we are building with the Welcome Stamp and other initiatives, given that our revenue from this new business has already surpassed anything we could possibly earn in the future from cruise ship tourism.

    Like

  • @Peter

    The headline was inserted by the boogmaster.

    Like

  • David
    But is there any appetite to go beyond the usual tinkering we’ve always known.

    To consider a wider range of policy options, some more radical than others?

    Like

  • The legendary ex-BU contributor Bush Tea aptly likened the tourism “industry” (as practiced in Bdos) to prostitution.
    As the prostitute ages and younger more exciting versions emerge, the old head is forced to resort to ever more desperate and risky behaviour in order to attract and retain clientele. We are seeing this clearly now in this pandemic environment. We also saw it with the Sandals give away.

    Whatever amount of malarkey the tourism talking heads in B’dos spout the future of tourism is being dictated by public health policy in UK. US. etc.They have little control in the short to mid term.

    In order to earn the equivalent pre-Covid spend, more and more giveaways are necessary. What is the acquisition cost of per UK tourist? Per US tourist?

    Like

  • Barbados’s last money making success story was SUGAR, run by white plantocrats and off shore governments financing for BENEFITS. Then came INDEPENDENCE and things started a roller coaster ride to four(4) financial failures in 65 years. Small independant nations whining about slavery and continually playing the BLAME GAME and devoid of entrepreneur thinking are destined to Haitian status sooner or later.

    Like

  • On the cruise industry, the evidence is clear that they engage in regulatory and tax arbitrage and contribute very little on a net basis. There are ample studies that show this. I’m surprised that this is still a debate in Barbados.

    Like

  • Not Wily Enough Coyote,

    With free labour and later pittance wages anybody of any colour can make a profit!

    Totally disingenuous argument rooted in white supremacy.

    Cannot let you get away with that!

    You come with that shite EVERY TIME!

    I see you.

    Like

  • Does Adrian whine? Yes he does.

    Black Barbadians have a reason to whine. The only reason I discourage it is because it wastes the time and energy we need to beat the system. And I believe we can beat it! But it requires ALL of our time and energy.

    BECAUSE THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED AGAINST US AND HAS BEEN SINCE THE DAYS OF SLAVERY.

    SO…we are allowed to chastise each other but we will tolerate no such thing from white supremacists our oppressors.

    They have no right!

    We have to be super human to achieve what white humans take for granted!

    Like

  • @Donna

    Wily rests his case, you follow the tired old white slavery supremacy argument.

    Like

  • @Pacha

    This blogmaster is of the view many of our problems are traced to the islands operating as standalones.

    Like

  • @ Pacha
    Sooner or later you and others will come to the common sense conclusion that we have to solve our own problems and those that are imposed on us. Our intellectual power must be creatively used to achieve a new and vibrant Caribbean. Anything else is a lazy and shortsighted .
    view on all counts.
    We need a cultural shift driven by intellectual competence and a desire for true regional unity.
    Otherwise we just wasting time.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ Donna
    Are you saying it’s better to be bitten by your own dog?

    Like

  • My wife;s grandfather was run over walking on the road by a truck in front of a rum shop, remarkably everyone in the area went blind, so I do not understand why anything on the island is a worry, all the car wrecks that seem to be coming your way just do a Helen Keller.

    Like

  • @ David January 18, 2021 10:31 AM

    That’s exactly how it is. If Barrow had not been so arrogant, ideologically inflamed and mediocre, he would not have pushed for independence with all his might. Independence is the mother of all evils on the island.

    Without independence, we would have a black government today, but no administrative overhead with our own military, embassies, etc., and could beg headquarters in London for money in any emergency.

    Look at the Caribbean islands that remained with France and the Netherlands and compare them to the now independent, formerly British islands. A difference like night and day. The French islands have the EUR and are financially supported by Paris. Bridgetown, on the other hand, is a run-down poorhouse.

    Like

  • @ Tron

    How about Bermuda?

    Like

  • Wily does not understand what he reads. Donna exhorts her people to stop whining and deal with the reality. That does not mean that the reality is not the reality. We have to come from waaaaay behind. White people had one magic formula – the gunpowder you stole from the Chinese and repurposed.

    If you don’t admit that then you are part of the problem.

    But is long time I see you and your twisted arguments.

    They shall not be allowed to stand.

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  • And now I rest my case.

    Like

  • DonnaJanuary 18, 2021 9:59 AM

    But what I realise is that it is not only Barbados that has to deal with a change in perspective, if it is to develop in a positive way.

    Sure, Barbados has to also deal with the issue of years of brutality. But other places have to deal with the issue of allocation of resources, capital and labour.

    That is where Trump was politically birthed. Because there were those who saw the Clinton and Obama years as moving the country towards a more equitable distribution of assets and empathetic way of life, which was not to their liking. They used Trump as the answer.

    The answer that few billionaires came to, in order t address the swing towards true democracy and social reform was to push a hardline president. Many saw Trump’s seeming animosity to Obama and his desire to destroy anything that the Clinton / Obama era produced.

    That was only the face of it. It was an agenda being pushed by those who helped Trump into office. The conservative far right. They do not want the USA to develop social programs to assist the under privileged. They see the country as their playground, to make money, to control. Labour to them is just a unit of production, not people. Not men and women with families, not love, not lives lived.

    This is the first step t understanding the Trump years. Knowing that it was contrived to return the USA to the capitalists only, not just first and foremost, but only.

    The nincompoops running on the Capitol were only stupid cannon fodder. There was no benefit for them. They were led into thinking that there could be, because it was what they wanted to hear.

    The real beneficiaries are the capitalists.

    However, the capitalists will still make money under the democrats. That is the way of the USA. It is just that the Democrats have a more inclusive and sustainable approach to profits.

    The far right way can only end in destruction.

    The same thing has happened over the pond, in the UK. The Tories are systematically dismantling the social services. They have managed to convince the working class man that it is in his interest to do so.

    But that is the whole ideology of the Tory party, just as the far right Republicans.

    Their wish is for hard capitalism. It is thus at this point that the stakeholders, including labour (the people), need to assess what the future should hold for them and what direction the country should take.

    Unfortunately, recently the news media has been run by the same far right billionaires, in both the UK and USA, pushing the far right agenda. The manipulation has been significant. Perception, isn’t that what a famous Barbadian politician said, that it is all about perception?

    Like

  • Fool wants to rewrite history and deny what we are seeing playing out worldwide! All over the world the truth is finally being acknowledged and one fool thinks he can put the dirty toothpaste back in the tube.

    Good luck with that!

    Like

  • This is the fallacy the white supremacists always seek to advance – when you tell the truth over and over again it becomes tired and therefore less true.

    Steupse!

    Like

  • @ Hal Austin January 18, 2021 12:05 PM

    Bermuda? Bermuda confirms as an exception (British overseas territory) the rule case (islands independent of Great Britain). GDP per capita is twice as high in Bermuda as it is here.

    Let’s not misunderstand each other: I am also in favor of our island population being self-governing, especially that no minority rules the majority. Also, the British as a civilization are not superior to the blacks in the south. But we would have needed a financially intelligent solution, not an ideological one. Mia Mottley is the first Prime to recognize that Barbados cannot survive on its own as a small nation. The solution is “Barbados as a global brand” now that we cannot reverse independence.

    Like

  • “Barbados as a global brand”

    What does this mean?

    Like

  • Saw this and wanted to share

    Quotes The truth is still the truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie, even if everyone believes it.

    Like

  • @ Dullard January 18, 2021 12:55 PM

    Barbados as a brand means that (1) anyone can buy this product, provided they are wealthy and comply to our standards; (2) we are not a sealed-off nation, but a global village and thus part of the global society.

    Nationalism and nation are the social concepts of the past. Globalism and global governance are the concepts of tomorrow.

    Like

  • peterlawrencethompson

    @Tron January 18, 2021 12:01 PM
    The “mother of all whatever” is a rhetorical construction which denotes both much larger scale and, to a lesser extent, prior location along a historical timeline.

    Your assertion that “Independence is the mother of all evils on the island” must therefore be taken to mean that you consider independence to be a much greater historical evil than the enslavement of African peoples, the genocide of the middle passage, and the White supremacist ideology which powered those evils.

    This positions you as (a) as evil as John Knox or any other KKK adherent, (b) the most self delusional person that I have encountered so far in my 64 years, or (c) a satirist of such subtlety and cunning that you use reductio ab absurdum concealed within an almost impenetrable veneer of versum ineptias.

    Like

  • @ peterlawrencethompson January 18, 2021 1:14 PM

    You insult the intellect of your readers.

    Of course, my phrase refers only to the 20th century because I want to blame everything that went wrong after 1966 on the DLP.

    Indeed, the injustice of slavery was historically the greatest crime. Likewise, I strongly support restitution for those crimes.

    However, we must not turn a blind eye to the economic crimes committed against the black masses by numerous nationalist governments in Barbados since 1966.

    Liked by 1 person

  • William Skinner,

    No. I am saying that family members can speak in certain ways to one another. We have a shared experience. We carry the same burden. I will not allow us to be lectured by one who does not. It’s sorta like the “n” word. Sounds different depending on who delivers it.

    We do need to put away the whining and put our heads together and fight.

    Taking to the streets, marching, chanting, dancing like the South Africans against the rigged system is productive. Whining is not.

    In the meantime, we can join forces and make progress financially.

    We can walk and chew gum, can’t we?

    Like

  • I think Tron might be (c). He is very good actually. Makes me laugh despite myself.

    Sometimes I think he is some sort if instigator meant to awaken the masses.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @PT

    Tron telling Truths obviously getting under your skin, time to read what’s he’s saying and get off the ideological band wagon. Tron and Wily basically on the same page, philosophies may vary, however we can see that civil service requires a significant downsizing(60%), Black management of independence has been a FAILURE and the SOCIALIST philosophies are not appropriate for small resource limited states.

    Like

  • Afterthought –

    You do know that I share your One Caribbean dream. Have you any information on the association recently formed by manufacturers in the region? Do you think it could be helpful and if so, in what way?

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  • Stress on the black management. White “management” was only successful because they had a big stick in hand.

    White-run countries with all the gains they made from slavery are still in a bloody mess. Ask Tron what he thinks about them. You will be surprised.

    Like

  • William H Harriss

    Would Adrian Loverage please contact me at william.h@reddiamondhotelawards.com

    Like

  • There was a time I would have given Tron an a). With the passage of time, I now give him a strong c).

    The way he writes will push buttons. Horrifying and outrageous at times and sometimes a good laugh.

    Like

  • @ Wily Coyote January 18, 2021 1:38 PM
    @ Donna January 18, 2021 1:41 PM

    The fact that the masses of the population in Barbados are black and many entrepreneurs are white is not a law of nature, but is due to historical circumstances.

    There is no such thing as black or white governance, society or bussiness, only good and bad. To claim that good govrnance or entrepreneurship is inherently white and government failure black would indeed be the logic of racism.
    The sprawling, costly welfare state, the lack of entrepreneurs, the lack of foreign currency, the one-sided focus on tourism, the lack of competitiveness due to the overvalued dollar – these are not ideological phrases, but very real problems.

    Liked by 1 person

  • peterlawrencethompson

    @Wily CoyoteJanuary 18, 2021 1:38 PM
    “@PT
    Tron telling Truths obviously getting under your skin…”
    +++++++++++++
    I read BU mainly for Tron’s commentary… I sometimes prod him to drop the satirical cloak as he does here in his 2:17 PM contribution which states our dilemma in stark and lucid terms.

    Like

  • @ Donna
    Your handling of Willie was excellent !
    As for the new manufactruing grouping, I read a bit about it. Actaully I don’t think we have a choice other than to look regionally. Just this morning I was in an Asian market and I saw wines from what they call plums . For years , there have been people making all kinds of wines in Barbados,but they were never taken seriously. Golden apple wine is better than most I have tasted. Then we have mango wine and I could go on and on.
    When I come across more information on the regional manufacturing effort , I would share it.

    Like

  • peterlawrencethompson

    @TronJanuary 18, 2021 2:17 PM
    “The sprawling, costly welfare state, the lack of entrepreneurs, the lack of foreign currency, the one-sided focus on tourism, the lack of competitiveness due to the overvalued dollar – these are not ideological phrases, but very real problems.”
    ++++++++++++++++
    BINGO! Now… what then shall we do about it? Complaining about the politicians is diversion for fools… acknowledging the historical roots of our sick society in colonialism and enslavement is similarly impotent.

    It is pointless mental masturbation to enumerate our obvious problems without using some sort of analytical tool to try to chart a productive way forward. The time has come when we must move beyond simply telling truths… we must move on to building a better future.

    Like

  • William,

    Just recently I suggested to my best friend’s daughter that she try using those local wines with her “Valentine’s Sweet Treat Package” instead of the foreign wines. She has recently started a business after being disappointed with the hotel industry.

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  • Many of us have ideas. Many of them have been ventilated. Individually we try to do our little bit. But government buy in and facilitation and mobilisation of the people is necessary for wholesale change.

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  • @Donna

    One sense Peter is pushing for citizens and NGOs to create strategic alliances from outside the established way of managing to create that change.

    Like

  • @ PLT
    @Tron

    I know it does not go down quite well on BU, but instead of historical, that rather portmanteau term, in the case of Barbados it is certainly cultural.
    In The UK, many of the micro businesses are African, a people who came to the UK in large numbers only in the 1990s, following large-scale civil wards; in West Indian terms, the entrepreneurs are the Jamaicans. The only Caribbean-focused bank is Jamaican owned.
    We are not even good consumers. We are the biggest customers at the Chinese restaurants, the Korean/Chinese nail bars, the Asian shops, etc.
    Even in Barbados we seem not to understand our consumer power; not a single retail business in Barbados will survive without black consumers.
    Yet we allow the Lebanese, Pakistanis, Indian, white business people to treat us like sub-humans. Then we all know tht if any community activists were to form a consumer group and tell people not to shop at Cave Shepherd for a couple weeks, or boycott Chefette, they will be ridiculed. That is what I call the Barbados Condition.
    The reality is that Barbados has specific cultural problems and cannot continue to blame our collective failure on others. We have to look at ourselves.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Cant we do better than the Barbados Labour Party Govt.??????

    We seem to scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    Like

  • Adrian. I pray that your optimism bear fruit in the short term. One of the countries you highlighted are experiencing COVID-19 super variants..

    The UK Sun January 15, 2021
    “A new strain of the virus in the UK has spread across the county”

    Presently most Brits are skeptical about ventures.

    Like

  • You should get the DLP fit for purpose by 2023 and who knows.

    Like

  • @ Hal,
    I have always used the phrase “Black Bajans are surplus to requirement in Barbados”.

    Name a period since our independence when a Barbados government has promoted policies that would elevate Afrocentrism amongst their majority population. Policies that would promote black empowerment at all levels: economic, educational, social, cultural and historical.

    We all know that since Barrow our leaders operated in a manner so as not to infuriate our minority communities. Remember when Obama was in power. He deliberately chose to detach himself from the struggle for fear of alienating the majority population.

    How ironic and deeply depressing that our past governments have continued to subsidise minority groups at the expense of their majority black population.

    When you was a boy growing up you would have encountered a fair number of relatively prosperous black businessess in many different sectors. For example Ms Rock. Perhaps we need to look at that period in time prior to our indepence to understand how the country was able to produce visionary entrepreneurs.

    The Barbados Condition will remain a powerful fixture in our country until Barbadians decide that it is in their own interests to dismember this fixture and then bury it.

    Like

  • @TLSN

    You are right. It is amazing how individual historical memories can vary. My Barbados was a youthful period of black business people, even small banks and savings clubs.
    It was also a period when ordinary working people had supreme skills, with the two foundries at the top of the apex. Now we import T-shirts from South Africa. We have de-skilled ourselves as a nation.
    Something I have mentioned before, and do so again, was the plumber who changed occupations to become a lawyer. I was horrified.

    Like

  • @ Dullard January 18, 2021 12:55 PM

    Barbados as a brand means that (1) anyone can buy this product, provided they are wealthy and comply to our standards; (2) we are not a sealed-off nation, but a global village and thus part of the global society.
    Nationalism and nation are the social concepts of the past. Globalism and global governance are the concepts of tomorrow.
    +++++++++++++++++++++

    @Tron

    This is PR guff. MBA management type jargon. This does not mean anything to me, to you or to the people of Barbados.

    Like

  • peterlawrencethompson

    @Hal AustinJanuary 18, 2021 3:26 PM
    “The reality is that Barbados has specific cultural problems and cannot continue to blame our collective failure on others.”
    +++++++++++++++++
    This is completely true. The main objective of my return to Barbados was to provoke the types of cultural change that would allow Barbados to make material and social progress.

    There is, of course, much to debate and analyse about what kinds of cultural change are required.

    To my mind the top 5 things that Bajans need to overcome are:
    1. fear of White people and deference towards them,
    2. the complacent and unproductive attitude that “God will provide,”
    3. acceptance of corruption in society and making excuses for it,
    4. looking back to some mythical golden age when things were better, they never have been, and
    5. the illusion that politicians have the capacity to lead economic innovation.

    Like

  • peterlawrencethompson

    @Donna January 18, 2021 3:04 PM
    “… government buy in and facilitation and mobilisation of the people is necessary for wholesale change.”
    ++++++++++++++
    I know that you do your part Donna.

    However, we have been counting on “government buy in and facilitation” for the past 3 generations with pathetic results. Is it not time to find a more productive strategy?

    Like

  • @PLT

    Your first two points are irrelevant. You seem to have an obsession with white people and organised religion. Be positive. How can we get young Barbadians (the old ones are goners) to think positively about social and economic change.
    Your fifth is true in part; there is nothing wrong with politicians. However, there is everything wrong when politicians want to be front, middle and centre of all policies, often about things they know nothing about.
    Barbados is not only a conservative society, it is also very deferential, particularly with people of other ethnicities, but that should not be our focus. We mark it and move on. We should concentrate on progress, not settling historic scores.

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  • peterlawrencethompson

    @Hal,
    My first two points are irrefutably the most important ones. I have nothing against either White people, but you have to have blinders on to ignore the fact that deference towards white people distorts the Barbados justice system, the Barbados banking system, even the way COVID surge infection clusters are analysed by the authorities.

    Organized religion in Barbados is as corrupt as many other places around the globe, with the pastors extorting tithes from their underprivileged flocks while raping their sons and daughters, but this is not exceptional. The damage that is holding us back is simply the complacent attitude of “God will provide” which is objectively utter nonsense. Our ingenuity, effort, and kindness toward our neighbors will provide… nothing else ever has or ever will.

    Like

  • (Quote):
    You seem to have an obsession with white people and organised religion. Be positive. How can we get young Barbadians (the old ones are goners) to think positively about social and economic change. (Unquote).
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    And this is coming from the mouth of an anglicized man who, in the twinkling of an eye, would burn at the stake every Muslim in Bim for inheriting the economic birthright left by the white people to the book-learnt KJV bible bashing blacks.

    Without black consumers who, then, would be prepared to buy the ‘reconditioned’-second-hand’ vehicles, the made for ‘monkeys’ make up’ hair and beauty products and the Chinese-made trinkets sold to them by those ‘new’ non-African Barbadians based on a taxonomy made up by Hal the demographer?

    If only blacks would learn to use the cloak of religion (discipline) as a pathway to economic prosperity through control of their countries’ resources as preached by Marcus Garvey then there would be no need for any second coming of some figment of their brainwashed imagination to save their sorry asses from being the ‘cursed’ hewers of wood and permanent bringers of water for their sibling races called brothers in humanity.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ Tron January 18, 2021 12:52 PM
    “Mia Mottley is the first Prime to recognize that Barbados cannot survive on its own as a small nation. The solution is “Barbados as a global brand” now that we cannot reverse independence.”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Come on Squire Tron, you can make a wiser ‘crack’ than that other than distorting the reality of Bajan political history of crack-pottery!

    You need to broaden your horizon somewhat.

    Your heroine has done nothing more than what other PM’s did other than being faced with a pandemic of endemic problems.

    FYI, it was Tom Adams who started to turn Barbados into a global brand by building on Barrow’s ‘borrowed’ slogan of “Friends of All, Satellites of None”.

    Who did you think was the first primus inter pares to establish ‘diplomatic’ ties with China the current hegemonic kingmaker of global geo-political affairs?

    Your MAM is nothing more than a copycat trying to kick against the prick of an already ‘devalued’ Barbados.

    When you can explain to us why Barbados ‘moved’ from being No.20 in the World just after Israel (No.1 in the so-called Third World) on the United Nations Human Development Index during the early 1990’s to somewhere close to No. 60 today then we will be prepared to view, politically, your Bajan Augustus as some avatar sent from Above to reverse the fortunes of the heavily tourism-dependent island compared to 1984(?).

    BTW, deepening ties with African states does not count as an ability to ‘punch above your Majesty’s weight.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Somebody recently called out the name of the now sadly missed Bush Tea. I found one of his posts from 2015 where another popular contributer at the time, Colonel Buggy, again sadly missed, passed comment on the demise of a certain Culloden Farm. I googled the name and came across a depressing article written by The Advocate. It makes for desperate reading.

    Bush Tea always argued that Barbados was a broken country full of “brass bowls”. Five years later with a new government things remain the same.

    Whilst Hal Austin has been singing from the same hymn sheet for more than 10 years.

    https://barbadosunderground.net/2015/02/04/jeff-broomes-is-a-glutton-for-punishment/#comments

    https://www.barbadosadvocate.com/columns/things-matter-culloden-farm-garden-and-other-national-tragedies

    Like

  • @ Miller January 18, 2021 8:27 PM

    I see myself in the tradition of the medieval alchemists who wanted to turn stones into gold.

    It’s just easy to criticize the conditions. The real intellectual challenge lies in making them beautiful.

    Like

  • MillerJanuary 18, 2021 7:21 PM

    Sir. That was a narrative worthy of a Curtley Ambrose over. Accurate, to the point and bitingly questioning.

    Like

  • peterlawrencethompsonJanuary 18, 2021 6:43 P Organized religion in Barbados is as corrupt as many other places around the globe, with the pastors extorting tithes from their underprivileged flocks while raping their sons and daughters, but this is not exceptional. The damage that is holding us back is simply the complacent attitude of “God will provide” which is objectively utter nonsense. Our ingenuity, effort, and kindness toward our neighbors will provide… nothing else ever has or ever will.

    100%.

    Like

  • @ TLSN

    Great. By re-publishing entire links people can get context. It is not like taking out a couple words and using it to reinforce bias.

    @PLT

    The Caribbean was the first large-scale multi-racial laboratory in human history, bigger even than the Roman Empire. The challenge now, in 2021, is to move on, not replay the same old tunes. Are white people worse than the Lebanese, or Pakistanis, or Hindus?
    Park the racial issue to one side and think of how best to come up with solutions to our problems and ways to improve the lives of ordinary Barbadians, while at the same time anchoring the demographic power of black (African) people.
    As to deference, we have had constitutional independence for over 50 years, the prime minister was born months before the formal event, and the majority of the Cabinet were born after independence. So, please explain the persistence of deference in Barbadian culture. Is it a product of Barrow’s ‘free education’, which was introduced even before the prime minister was born? Explain.
    I know we like polemics and find policy-making boring, but let us try for a brief moment to come up with workable solutions.
    As to your point about organised religion, I am not sure what is your point. Is it that organised religion, All organised religions, are corrupt, or that the people running organised religions are corrupt?

    Like

  • Perhaps you should adhere to your own advice, because I could identify several occasions when you took “out a couple of words” from people’s contributions and use them “to reinforce bias.” I guess posting the entire contribution so “people could get context” did not matter at the time.

    Like

  • peterlawrencethompson

    @Hal,
    White people are no worse and no better than than the Lebanese, or Pakistanis, or Hindus, or Black people. Part of the cultural deference that Bajans accord White people is based on class and material riches, but some is rooted in cultural memory. One aspect of a workable solution is to publicly point out these inconsistencies in public discourse, without malice or rancour, so that the deference is eroded over time. It is not policy making… it is the much deeper process of cultural evolution.

    My point about Barbadian religion is specifically that the commonplace complacent attitude of “God will provide” is detrimental to the development of the initiative, ingenuity, and focused commitment that is necessary in a more entrepreneurial culture. There are lots of religious people of all faiths around the world who are outstanding entrepreneurs, but they do not simply sit back and feel that “God will provide.” In my experience providing mentorship to young Bajan entrepreneurs I have, on more than one occasion, seen young people discouraged by their elders and told to put their efforts into prayer rather than persevere with the difficult tasks of entrepreneurship. One young woman’s pastor quoted Luke 12:24 to her in front of the entire congregation to humiliate her and to prove that she was wasting her time trying to build a sustainable business.

    Like

  • Importantly is how we have been educating our people.

    Like

  • (Quote):
    My point about Barbadian religion is specifically that the commonplace complacent attitude of “God will provide” is detrimental to the development of the initiative, ingenuity, and focused commitment that is necessary in a more entrepreneurial culture. There are lots of religious people of all faiths around the world who are outstanding entrepreneurs, but they do not simply sit back and feel that “God will provide. (Unquote).
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    That Bajan ‘God-will-provide’ attitude clearly does not apply when it comes to matters of life or death like depending on the sinful Science (flying in God’s face) to come up with vaccines to fight viruses e.g. Covid-19.

    The PM did not attend any national day of prayer but bragged about being inoculated with a man-made vaccine.

    Where are the congregation of prayer warriors when you need them most to defend the citadel as Pachamama does her much needed culling?

    Or is their Yahweh away on vacation in some other galaxy attending to some greater need of his ‘other’ universal creatures?

    Like

  • PLT
    5:58 PM
    Fear el al of White people. How true, as well as all the others mentioned.

    But PLT, if Black people constantly have a White god image in their minds we are not to be surprised by all emerging behaviours.

    We suggest it nearly impossible to disabuse the minds Black people infected with a White god acili.

    Do you suggest that radical progress can be made absent the implantation of a new mind into David, for example, as a condition precedent. Or can there happen coterminiously.

    Like

  • Can’t be made

    Like

  • NY Judge orders hospital To use Ivermectin on an 80 year old Covid-19 patient and she recovers. Nigerian government is proposing to fund more research trials into Ivermectin to confirm emerging evidence from various locations around the world (outside of North America) of its apparent effectiveness against Covid-19

    Don’t look for any funding for this type of research on a cheap but effective alternative to vaccines or the patented $4000 US a Covid-19 drug Remdesivir to come from our Western Medical-Pharma Industrial Complex, or from wealthy humanitarians and philanthropists like Bill “Vaccinator General” Gates.

    The Front Line Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC) of US Intensive Care medical specialist reported on their web site that the NIH in the US has announced they will for now allow the use of Ivermectin as a Covid-19 treatment if patients and doctors wish to use it. Before the NIH’s position was that Ivermectin could only be used to treat Covid-19 in official medical trials.

    Ivermectin is Now a Treatment Option for Health Care Providers!

    Jan 14, 2021 – One week after Dr. Paul Marik and Dr. Pierre Kory – founding members of the Front Line Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC) – along with Dr. Andrew Hill, researcher and consultant to the World Health Organization (WHO), presented their data before the NIH Treatment Guidelines Panel, the NIH has upgraded their recommen­da­tion and now considers Ivermectin an option for use in COVID-19.

    Their recommendation has now been upgraded to the same level as those for widely used monoclonal antibodies & convalescent plasma, which is a “neither for nor against” recommen­da­tion. The significance of this change is that the NIH has decided to no longer recommend against the use of ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19 by the nation’s health care providers. A consequence of this change is that ivermectin has now been made a clear therapeutic option for patients.

    covid19criticalcare(DOT)com

    The FLCCC doctors have also published the treatment protocol they’re using to treat Covid-19 patients. It includes Ivermectin along with a steroid, a blood thinner, thiamin and high dosage Vitamin C (ascorbic acid). They has also published a prophylactic protocol that includes Ivermectin for those high risk individuals who have not yet caught the disease wishing to use Ivermectin as a preventative. Check their web site, link above.

    Like

  • @PLT

    Are you objecting to organised religion or the idea of ‘God will provide’? Forgive my ignorance, but I am still searching for your objection to organised religion, which is not clear from your statements.
    There are numerous examples of the phrase in the Bible, are you objecting to it in general or to specific examples? If not God, then who or what will provide?
    Do you just mean Christianity, or other organised religions are also included?

    The issue of cultural memory and deference is also becoming confusing, since you say in part that deference is also rooted in class and material riches. Is this all, or even true? Are you including inherited social inferiority with cultural memory?
    This is also becoming sociologically confusing; how do you define class, not your personal definition, but a proper sociological definition? What do you mean by material riches? Do you mean wealth or income or both?
    I am not being pedantic, but there are black Barbadians who have more ‘class’, both in the popular and sociological sense, than the vast majority of white people in Barbados, traditional and immigrants.
    Barbados gave the world ‘poor-great’, which clearly excludes material wealth/riches and we have always had the sophisticated working class, whose children were not allowed to come out to play and who were pillars of their communities. Aare you sure you have a proper understanding of Barbadian society, now and in the past?
    There are also some very wealthy black Barbadians living in Barbados; we have the cash poor, but materially rich, mainly property owners; we have the cash rich, we have the wealthy, both new wealth and the inherited. We can argue that wealthy black Barbadians often do not make their money work for them, but that is another debate.
    None of these things make people deferential. I would not described myself as deferential to any white person, Bajan or not, and I was born and educated in Barbados.
    My cultural memory is also the same, both my cultural DNA and my cognitive cultural memory, and I am not in any way exceptional.
    To go back to the substantive issue, I can think of ways that Barbados can progress without any reference, or just passing reference, to the orthodoxies of race and class, or the usual macroeconomic fudge that dominates Barbadian economic conversations.
    Let us pretend that the prevalence of racism and religious dogma fogs our way, I am suggesting we clear a way through that to map a pathway out of our backwardness.
    Ideas for progress wanted.

    Like

  • Peter,

    You are right. I suppose we will have to find a way to do it without the government.

    Like

  • @ Pacha
    “We suggest it nearly impossible to disabuse the minds Black people infected with a White god acili.”
    Are you saying that Martin Luther KIng and all those who gave their blood and lives and worshipped their “white” god were unaware of their blackness and the inequalities that exisist. You need to come much better than that !
    Were you ever infected with what you now call ” a white god acili ? If you have liberated yourself from your early white/christian shackles does it mean you were somewhat inferior when you perhaps were like the majority of us follwing the white god?

    Like

  • @ Hal
    You are correct in every instance. We have people walking about talking about a middle class in Barbados that they cannot define. It’s always easy to discover those who have a “stand pipe” definition of what they call the lower class. And then they are those who believe that the only professinal class is doctors and lawyers. I had a friend who lived (born and bred) in Barbados and right into adult life and had never seen a sheep or goat. Sometimes we are absolutely confused by the way we were brought up. That’s why the productions in Queens Park provide such laugher because they attempt, to make fun of or to highlight the so called lower class. I don’t know about you and others but I still trying to work out what is stand pipe behaviour because I brought water from a stand pipe for donkey years and I never witnessed any cussing and fighting. It was a very orderly exerci

    Like

  • PTL

    The long staying visitors are needed
    The ptl visitors are needed

    How much money from the long staying visitors trickle down to the small operators

    The jet ski operators and the like depends heavily on the cruise industry
    I will bet they would all be happy if they had a couple of ships in port every day

    There is room/ need for all the different types of tourist

    Like

  • @ William

    The easy way out is a polemical rant, but to define what one means is a bit more difficult. It is comforting to talk nonsense about foreign reserves, and economic growth, and tourism, etc, but to drill down those concepts often people do not know what they mean. They repeat them like parrots.
    I have said before, if the objective is to improve the standard of living for the average Barbadian, instead of the mantra of growth, then we have to take control of our social capital, such as our strength as consumers, our demographic strength, our political strength.
    We have not done any of these things. Why? White people do not tell us not to organise; the church does not tell us not to organise or how to vote.
    But if we shout loud and bash your chest, there is no need for good reasoning. You stimulate the mob with decibels, not reason. You are quite keen on community organisation; why can’t we organise?
    As to the stand pipe, those were the days.

    Like

  • @William

    Do not complicate the issue, middle class should not be confused with economic groupings. The definition will change based on the context. Usually when we discuss middleclass in Barbados it is obvious the meaning once the context is known.

    Like

  • @ David
    Pray tell us how you can define a middle class without placing it in an ecoconomic grouping. My question remains : what really do we mean by middles class ? Provide some examples and I would stop asking. You are constantly saying that governments’ economic policy is hurting the middles class. Tell me who is this middle class that is being hurt. If you are attaching hurt to economic policy;it follws that the class should be defined at least in part or by sub group of the econmic policy that is hurting it.
    Over to you Bro’

    Like

  • @ William

    Your strengths as a teacher are still with you. I admire it.

    Like

  • @William

    When we talk about middle class in Barbados it is usually referring to those groups like the professionals; lawyers, doctors, those who have been able to secure mortgages in built up neighborhoods, send children to universities etc. the definition will move based on the country. At the lower middle class are the teachers, some f the public service etc. It comes back to the context of the discussion. There is no one size fits all definition.

    Like

  • @ David
    In your context, the majority of government employed teachers and public servants cannot be lower middle class.
    Do you know the salary of a primary school teacher with a first degree?
    By your reasoning the lower middle class in the public sector will be : messengers, maids , etc.
    The lawyers , doctors etc will be upper middle class in some instances.
    Furthermore there are trades people mechanics, car repairs, small business persons who may or may not have mortgages ; may or may not live in the heights and terraces who earn more than public servants , teachers, police, nurses etc who earn considerably more than those who are called upper and middle class.
    I’ll share this with you: I know a beach vendor , who at one stage was constantly making over $20,000 BDS. Per month.
    That’s why I maintain that we have not really defined the middle class. I am not saying that it cannot be defined. We have had a university long enough that such information should be readily available.
    I recall as a public servant working for less than $300 bds per month and having friends , who were waiters in the hotel industry making 600 per week. They were driving minis and cortinas and I had a bicycle.
    As @ Hal constantly states , we are very lacking in basic information and we need to start holding all these people we have freely educated to the fire and force them to present serious analysis of the society.

    Like

  • @ Hal
    Thanks. I guess we were fortunate to be exposed to a time when discussions were passionate but never sunk to personal innuendo and silly political posturing.
    For a small country, our university should be a community production line of serious information. We see university education as status only.
    The entire UWI landscape should have been more developed for quietness where we could all go and sit in an environment of well ordered small intimate business places to enjoy a fish cake or slice of sweetbread . Where the university should have been a part of the community.
    It’s fastly becoming a barren investment.

    Like

  • William Skinner
    We will disregard the gibe from your political coreligionists hailing from the North Atlantic.

    This writer seems to have inherited the intuition to discern that christianity was bullshiite, from childhood. Some might say a born devil. Therefore there was a bloody and unavoidable rebellion around age 14. This is the only way we’ve been able to explain the genesis of this unrepentant disposition.

    The real problem is that we currently, and have for a long time, have conclusive evidence, dating back tens of thousands of years, that christinity is ignorance meant for fools at worse, and at best, an instrument in the service of White domination, slavery, serfdom, imperialism, capitalism etc. Even, the Communists had reach that determination. There was a time when you knew this better than most.

    MLK did a good work but was not perfect. Indeed, his imperfections included, lionizing Ghandi, wrongly expecting that Afrikan-Americans could ever see freedom, be equal, at the centre of the one country which has done the most to advance slavery, apartheid, fascism, zionism, militarism, white supremacy etc

    Maybe you could inform your ignorant buddy from england that everybody on this blog, except him, is more than capable of holding their own in any argument.

    Lastly, it is never always possible to, on a blog, cover every nuance to each argument – too much writing. This you might understand. Hope we did not overlook any points mades by you.

    See how long thaa was! 😈

    Like

  • @ William

    Every society defines its classes, since it is a key way of the distribution of benefits. In the UK, politicians tend to call anyone in a job middle class. That is a political definition.
    There is a rough definition we all tend to use: the aristocracy, upper middle class, middle middle class, lower middle class, working class, lumpen proletariat. Occupations are then fitted in to those broad brackets.
    In the UK, there are regular studies of class by the economic and social research council, by university departments, and the office of national statistics; they are usually the same. There is a study called the Great British Class Survey.
    In no society is a teacher a lower middle class; that is nonsense. Just the idea of the university educating people for the lower middle class is laughable.
    You are right about the university. The department of sociology is underperforming and no-one seems to be making any demands on them.
    To use mortgages as a yardstick is folly; anyone in a regular job should be able to obtain a mortgage. Again I will use the UK as an example, 70 per cent of UK households were owner occupiers in 2008; this has since dropped to about 64 per cent and is rising again, even in CoVid Britain.
    How many households in Barbados are owner occupiers?

    Like

  • In the US……

    Like

  • @ Mr. Skinner

    Ironically, I attempted to post a contribution to this topic but deleted it. I was going to mention some people believe the middle class is defined by one’s social status, education, residential area, job and salary.

    A personal, childhood mate of mine cleans, maintains and construct pools. Although he earns just as much money as some of the professionals who are determined to be ‘middle class,’ lives within the perceived associated standards and was able to build his home in a residential area, without applying for a mortgage……. he won’t be considered as ‘middle class’ or accepted in that social circle,’ simply because people don’t see him other than being a ‘pool cleaner.’

    Yet, he is confronted with similar challenges faced by doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects and CEOs.

    Like

  • “Lastly, it is never always possible to, on a blog, cover every nuance to each argument – too much writing. This you might understand.”

    Agree 100%.

    Like

  • @ Artax
    There are so many “ ordinary “ Bajans ,who live better and are far richer than all these so-called professionals and so on.
    There is a story to be told about the guy who lives very well , in some gap or village, completely oblivious to all these pseudo sociologists/ economists/intellectuals.
    I know a lot of them.
    Probably is the very best way to be.
    Keep up the good work.

    Like

  • @ Pacha
    Thanks. I had a similar awakening around fourteen. However, I can’t accept that a Christian or religious person cannot be as liberated as I think I am.
    It’s been one of your better responses. As always , this is the standard of discourse , I expect from a Comrade such as you. Just could not avoid that little jab😊

    Like

  • @ Hal
    We seem incapable of defining anything or speaking clearly. There is too much noise. The current COVID communication problems , are a reflection of the noise.

    Like

  • PLT I am really not sure if like like white people, you seem to think others can be judged by country but the white race is all one. I wish that canadian woman hadnt taken your job but dont hate us all for that I never dated her.

    Like

  • Skinner
    Well, liberalism is not something we associate with ourselves. Even people more radical and christian than MLK in our view were foolish for believing the christian lies.

    And While MLK did an honourable work you will well see that everything about him, at least the stories they like to tell, has been appropriated by empire.

    He was far more radical, even while misguidedly being a christian, than the presented and popular narratives suggest.

    However, we also seem to prefer other christians like Denmark Vessey, Grabriel Prosser and so on. Notwithstanding, King did a good work in the circumstances. After all, he died for us. Maybe He should be our Christ!
    All we need do is to build a story around Him. LOL.

    Have you ever noticed how the rightwing American christian preachers treat him in death the same way they did in life, ignoring Him.

    Like

  • peterlawrencethompson

    @LawsonJanuary 19, 2021 1:55 PM
    “PLT […] I wish that canadian woman hadnt taken your job…”
    ++++++++++++++++++
    😉 I’m the one that spent a decade training her and then resigned to give her my job. The #1 job of the leader of any organization is to prepare a great succession plan and then execute it at the appropriate time.

    I don’t hate anyone, not even the KKK. Learned that from Dr. King even though I’m no Christian. The list of countries was just quoted from Hal as among the long list of people who take advantage of Bajans.

    Like

  • LOL Peter you trained a woman no you train a dog you mentor people for a position and the truth is probably your were holding her spot because she was better . Stop we can all hate kkk not because of mlk but because these are are a horrible lot of people. Whether mlk came a
    long or not good people cannot abide injustice.

    Like

  • William Skinner,

    Hal Austin is usually the first to be nasty. You have a terrible blind spot or loyalty from your early days together. You must really stop trying to place you two in some special category of people who were lucky to have been exposed to debates that never got personal. So was I. I still debate that way everywhere else. It is my default position.

    When I first came here I was told that it was a rumshop and I would have to fit in or go away. Having had a fisherman from a fisher family for a grandfather, I found it easy to do so.

    It is quite fun and very cathartic. If you want to bore each other to tears, why not stop complaining and start your own blog?

    There is a time and place for everything.

    BU is BU. When I run out of comedies to watch I can always come here and get a laugh AND learn something in the process.

    Like

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