The Phartford Files: Aliens Among Us Part I

Submitted by Ironside

It was not my intention to start this short series with a reference to China. But after hearing that the government of Barbados intends to have the Chinese build a road or roads in St. Andrew, I decided it would be remiss of me not to awaken the public and hopefully this beleaguered government, to the evil it is embracing.

None of what I am going to say will make any sense if you keep reading/ viewing the same traditional media: CNN, FOX, MSNBC, Wall Street Journal (WSJ). For the most part, these prefer to dine at the table of domestic goings on and can’t get enough of Donald Trump’s Twitter menu. In some cases (WSJ) it has now been shown that some of these media outlets have actively aided and abet these benighted aliens in spewing their propaganda in the west. China got strategy; and lots of stealth!

No, what I am going to say about China won’t make any sense unless you spice up your media menu with the offerings of the ever growing new and “independent” media in America and across the world. Let me name a few NTD, China in Focus, Al Jazeera, WION (Gravitas).

I could pick over a dozen entry points for his expose. But let me start with the current and immediate.

Have you heard about the recent Hong Kong Security Law passed by China and the blow it dealt to democracy there? Why should anyone in Barbados care? Do you know that according to Article 38, anyone in the world who criticizes China – including anyone from the Caribbean – can now be apprehended if they visit Hong Kong or China and put into prison in China on the basis of that law? Do you know this?

Don’t take my word for it. Let’s start with news that is current as of today 10 August: the arrest of Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BftoNTyYQwo

Do the background checks and find out about the Hong Kong and the democracy movement there. I am not doing that research for you.

Let’s pause a sec. When we say “China” here, let it be clear that we mean the Chinese government a.k.a the CCP or Chinese Communist Party. Not the 1.4 billion Chinese people. Does CCP sound familiar? It sure as hell does! That is part of the unofficial name of the covid-19 virus, the “CCP Virus” so dubbed by yours truly, Donald J. Trump!

In case you want to go naïve on me, please be aware that Trump’s term is not just appropriate because the virus started in China; it is because the CCP deliberately deceived the world about the human-to-human transmission of the virus and still to this day refuses to let international pandemic researchers enter Wuhan, China (where the virus is purported to have started) to help determine the cause of the disease. That is another story for another time.

Now let’s do the CCP virus math to date: 19,998,817 cases, 734,753 deaths worldwide as today 10 August:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMre6IAAAiU.

That’s the human toll.

What about the economic and social toll? Economies shattered, small businesses wiped out, families torn apart. The jury is still out on this because second and third waves of the virus are being experienced in some countries.

What about Barbados? circa 29,000 people have lost their jobs; over 70 million paid out in unemployment benefits to date (See the article: https://barbadosunderground.net/2020/08/09/mystery-national-insurance/) on this blog).

Who is to blame? The Chinese Communist Party. If you lost a loved one in this pandemic blame the CCP. If you lost your job because of the pandemic, blame the CCP.

Over 100 countries have ganged up to demand reparations from China. Yet Barbados and other Caribbean countries are going cap in hand to China for loans which they will probably not be able to repay, like other countries in Africa. For the CCP this is no problem! Once access to something strategic they want is part of the collateral, for example, a port, natural resource or a strategic location, no problem!

Have you noticed that government controlled media in Barbados never reported any of the more interesting international debates on the CCP virus? Now you know why. Barbados and a string of Caribbean governments have bought into the CCPs grand Trojan horse scheme to control the economy of the world. It is called the Belt and Road Initiative, compliments of Xia Jinping, President of the CCP. It is the Kool Aid served by China and this BLP Government is about to drink deeply from the jug of the CCP. So they can’t talk, less they strangle (or be strangled!).

If you want to know how many Caribbean governments have drunk of the cup of the CCP’s iniquitous scheme, read our own Caribbean media: https://www.cijn.org/chinas-opaque-caribbean-trail-dreams-deals-and-debt/ .

I am not going to attempt to reproduce the vast amount of material available on the CCP. Do the research yourself. Here’s a starter kit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh9xSA2gOZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvXROXiIpvQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd_6YgGWBeI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1axbPfGHf8

My call to action is for the Opposition. Get the Government disclose the terms of the agreement with the CCP. Everything is a state secret in China. Not so here. As flawed as it is, we still practice democracy. I hope!


143 comments

  • I wish both MMs all the best. Now and in the future.
    Asking a few honest questions not be seen as a criticism,

    Like

  • Buying land and building apartments or houses on it are good returns on investments.
    Often land owners will just advertise plans and require deposits and mortgages in place to start the builds.
    There are also maintenance and management fees for housing complexes as regular income.

    Like

  • Hal Austin August 16, 2020 1:45 PM “Go to Parish Land in St Philip to see how badly our housing planning is. Little units with lots of space between each. Now they are moving in the squatters.”

    In the Barbados tradition, build build small, then as they get more children or more money or both, they build out.

    Like

  • I bought my lot in 1978, but did not build on it until 1988, by which time i had completed payments on the lot, and saved 28% of what it would cost to construct the actual house, so I had a fairly small, quite manageable mortgage compared to my wages, so was able to pay of the mortgage in less than 20 years.

    Lot of us financial illiterates suffering from the with the Bajan condition do the same.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @NorthernObserver August 16, 2020 1:07 PM “@Hants. At nearly $800,000/acre, land en cheap.”

    Indeed land in Barbados is not cheap.

    But as our friend BAJE never tires of reminding us we live on a li’l 2 x 3 island. And when a resource is scarce it is alas typically also very expensive.

    I’ll be honest we cover Canada’s wide expanses, but again alas we cannot declare war on our far northern neighbor, because we are only a li’l 2 x 3 island and we know that we cannot win against a population of nearly 40 million.So the Canadians safe from us…for now.

    Here in this li’l 2 x 3 place. we do the best we can with what we have.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Hal Austin August 16, 2020 1:21 PM “Who bought the land?”

    I expect a lotta poor black, barely holding on to lower middle class women like me, who worked hard and saved harder and consistently for a decade or more. And got up at 4:30 n the morning to cook hot lunches for ourselves and our families so that we would not have to buy lunch in town, who walked a mile to take the bus so that we would not have to buy a car, who never smoked, drank or gambled, and who enjoyed little entertainment or recreation, who went to night school to upgrade ourselves and earn promotions because we could never afford to quit our day jobs, who had or will have only 1 or 2 children, instead of the 3 or 4 we wold have preferred…

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Hal Austin August 16, 2020 1:21 PM ” I have said on BU on numerous occasions that by 2023 there will be no Barbados to talk of. Mottley’s articulated plan is to sell off all state-owned property.”

    So if the Crown Land is all sold to Bajans whose families have lived here landless or virtually landless for upwards of 16 generations why would anybody have a problem with that?

    Liked by 1 person

  • If the Chinese wish to build a road in St Peter then they should absolutely be allowed to construct it. Ignore the hysteria and google the roads that China has built and is building in Africa.
    No nation since the Romans has undertaken projects of the scale and complexity of what China is constructing successfully in Africa.

    Like

  • You know that it is St.Andrew right? And not St.Peter.

    Two different places.

    Lots of land slips in St. Andrew.

    Send us some links of where the Chinese built roads in places highly vulnerable to land slips.

    They can build the roads, I don’t doubt. They built the Great Wall and it is still standing, but was the Great Wall built on land highly vulnerable to land slips?

    When the land slips again we will feel real-real foolish paying for a road that is no longer there.

    And I know the Chinese ain’t God, and that they will not forgive us our debts.

    Liked by 1 person

  • $6 million dollars in 2 hours. Bajans investing some of their savings in land.

    Liked by 1 person

  • I am not sure if it was Sir Cow or Bizzy, who said that their mummy told them “land don’t spoil”

    Lots of Bajan mummies and some daddies too tell their children the very same thing.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ Hants at 5;22 PM

    Yes. It is characteristic l for Barbadians to invest their savings in land and the education of their children. So the billions you see on deposit accounts are there for legitimate purposes not for speculative investments.

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  • The lower middle class one has to believe from the pictures have sourced loans to finance purchases.

    >

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  • Vincent Codrington

    @ Hants
    Please note that these are small house spots of 5000 – 6000 sq .ft at $18.00 per square foot. Building the house will cost between $300 K to $400 K at todays prices.

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ David BU

    That is the main reasons why the banks and credit unions forge these strategic alliances with the real estate vendors. The borrowers spend the next twenty five years repaying the financial institutions.

    Like

  • @Guy Pierce August 16, 2020 4:32 PM
    @Cuhdear Bajan August 16, 2020 4:48 PM

    Glad we are onto the subject of Chinese Construction.
    They built the Language Centre at the Barbados Community College and water still comes up through the floor. But it could be worse:

    Like

  • And if you like Chinese tofu:

    Like

  • Glad we are onto the subject of Chinese Construction.
    They built the Language Centre at the Barbados Community College and water still comes up through the floor. But it could be worse

    #########

    Guess the Chinese are the only people who can mess up a construction project. I guess they built the wharf in Speightstown then.

    This anti-China campaign is about one thing and one thing only. The Anglo-American ruling elite have been sitting on top of the global capitalist pile for pretty much as far back as we can remember and they are determined to stop China from taking their place. From that position of power they treated the rest of the human race however they liked; stole their land, murdered them , enslaved them and called them sub-humans. The English even started a war on the Chinese to force them to take opium. Today they would get seriously hurt if they tried that. I understand why racists like Trump, Pompeo and Steve Bannon would be pushing the anti-China crusade, but I don’t get it when I see Africans jumping on that particular bandwagon.

    Maybe we should learn a lesson from the Chinese and work to get ourselves, whether in Africa or the diaspora, into a position where nobody can abuse us in the way that’s routine today.

    Like

  • @Ironside August 16, 2020 7:18 PM “And if you like Chinese tofu.”

    If I can make pudding and souse with tofu then we are both good. But for the time being i will get a pig head from Mr. Proper at the end of the month, and do my own traditional thing.

    i am not so foolish as to mix up geo politics with my food.

    Stupssseee!!!

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ Tee White

    Very good observation. All the nonsense about China is about keeping China in its place. Just look at the 5G row. The Yanks are losing the technology war; they are a declining economy, and they are pressuring the Anglo-Saxon world to join them.
    Just look at the uncultured Australians and their aggression against the Chinese, when Australia of all nations depends so much on the Chinese – for trade, students etc.
    The Chinese are not angels, but this world needs to balance American aggression. I was hoping a United States of Europe, or even a United States of Africa, will do it. But we have China.

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  • @Hal Austin August 17, 2020 11:36 AM “The Yanks are losing the technology war; they are a declining economy.”

    The Europeans too.

    Like

  • @Hal Austin August 17, 2020 11:36 AM “they are pressuring the Anglo-Saxon world to join them.”

    And we are all clear that Barbadians are NOT part of the Anglo-Saxon world. Right?

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ Hal Austin August 17, 2020 11:36 AM

    I would like to clarify this a bit: White Anglo-Americans are a declining ethnic group, not colored people. Trump is the absolute low point of this development. He matches exactly the racist narrative of the lazy, violent, unintelligent and malicious man that white Anglo-Americans have pinned on black men. Now white Anglo-Americans see that they themselves are the decades behind in terms of civilization.

    Just look at the COVID19 numbers: America is completely devastated, Britain is hit hard. If an African, Chinese or Indian were US President, the COVID19 numbers in the USA would not even be half as high. I wouldn’t even consider the white ethnicity as a unit here; the mental and cultural differences between white Anglo-Americans and Europeans are too great. They are no more related than Central Africans and Aborigines in Australia.

    Like

  • @Tee White August 17, 2020 11:08 AM
    +++This anti-China campaign is about one thing and one thing only etc +++

    I am very much aware of all the history you are spouting. I have raised similar issues elsewhere in the interest of being balanced. But if you think that this is simply about economic dominance, you are perhaps being naïve. No sir; this is about BIG existentialist issues! So at the risk of being long-winded I make the following points:

    Money/ economic dominance is not the ONLY issue there is in geo-political relationships. If you study the CCP carefully you will know that it does not even believe that. Ideology and more precisely, the survival of CCP ideology, is what is of PARAMOUNT importance. It uses dollars- billions of them- to pursue that end strategically and with great subtlety! Belt and Road Initiative? Confucian Institutes?

    There is no “China running things globally” without its communist ideology.

    The CCP is an EXPANSIONST COMMUNIST government. It is ATHEISTIC by definition. If it were communist but not expansionist, we could live with that. We do so with communist Cuba just next door, don’t we?

    Cuba has wisely relaxed its hard line policy on religion. But the CCP is “just getting started” tearing down Christian churches, Buddhist statues, making slaves out of ethnic minorities (viz. the Uyghurs) and taking their body parts without permission. The facts are there. Do the research. What has that got to do with global economic dominance? Please do tell!

    So the CCP is different. The values that we (if not you) hold dear, such as freedom of speech and freedom of religion, the CCP repudiates.
    We can talk nice sounding, intellectual crap all day about what freedom is or is not; mix in white versus black issues etc but I am willing to bet a year’s salary that not one single person on this blog would want any government to take away his or her freedom of speech. Ditto freedom of travel.

    But being “unfree” is the lived experience of 1.4 billion Chinese everyday! And I don’t mean since covid-19 started, either. Some simply don’t get it:

    NONE OF US IS TOTALLY FREE IF SOME OF US ARE IN BONDAGE!

    Those who VALUE freedom and democratic values in China and have the will to fight, do so. Others take flight; the majority succumb! But nobody likes to be “fettered”; not even animals! Need we mention the covid-19 lockdown?

    The inescapable conclusion is that the China issue it is about much more than economic dominance: it is a battle of IDEOLOGIES: democracy vs. communism; atheism vs. freedom of religion (regardless to whether religion is the opium of the people or not!).

    Pompero makes a similar argument and regardless to whatever you think about him, he has got that point right. Ditto Donald Trump. Ad hominem attacks against these will not make the reality go away. Some people have been so brainwashed by the big American TV networks that they cannot think about anything outside the Hollywoodian, gossip-mongering, mostly shytopian spin on Trump, Biden and the 2020 election. In so doing they miss the real issues simmering outside of America and close at home.

    I certainly do not agree with a lot of Trump’s behaviour. But you do not have to agree with everything that somebody does or is, to agree with him or her when you think he or she is right on an issue. That is narrow mindedness and basically intellectual dishonesty. In social psychology it is called the HALO EFFECT effect and it works both ways. Most of us are victims of that human foible.

    So let us remind ourselves that : NOBODY IS PERFECT and that NO HUMAN SYSTEM IS PERFECT. So we have to make choices!
    If I have a choice between living under communism versus democracy (with all its flaws) then there is really no choice. I wonder what yours would be.
    ++++
    @Tee White August 17, 2020 11:08 AM:
    Maybe we should learn a lesson from the Chinese and work to get ourselves, whether in Africa or the diaspora, into a position where nobody can abuse us in the way that’s routine today.
    ++++

    I couldn’t agree with you more! And may that day come sooner rather than later!

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  • Christianity is one of the fastest growing belief systems in China.

    Like

  • @ Hal Austin August 17, 2020 3:26 PM

    +++Christianity is one of the fastest growing belief systems in China+++

    I do not have any stats at hand but I can check. But, please share if you have because that is interesting. In fact, VERY interesting.

    I know that Falun Gong (aka Gung), a spiritual meditation practice, has been growing very quickly but the CCP started a deliberate campaign of persecuting its members. It is not just Christians being persecuted. Anything (a cross) or anyone ( the Dalai Lama) that the CCP feels threatened by is quickly targeted, and destroyed or at least violently resisted. Pure “devilry”.

    It is estimated that some 80 million Chinese have been slaughtered in the CCP’s rise and the cultural purges that took place in its wake.

    I make no apologies for wanting and fearlessly praying for the CCP’s utter demise. But I certainly don’t want to see another post-Saddam Iraq or Afghanistan in China. Not that I think that is likely. Too often, Americans do some VERY dumb, stupid geo-political things!

    So on this matter, my “bet” is on the King of Kings and Lord of Lords to do right by the 1.4 billion Chinese people!

    Like

  • @ Ironside
    I do not have any statistics and we are talking about a very low base, but this is certainly the anecdotal conversation with Chinese Chinese and from the growing number of worshippers at the Chinese language church in London’s West End, many of whom are visitors/tourists.
    Hong Kong (Cantonese) Chinese have always been more religious. I will give a story of a young Chinese woman who used to work with me. Her mother would visit her for six months of the year, and one of her activities in London was going to church. The daughter, a single child, knew her mother was a believer, but the husband/father did not. The daughter is not a Christian. The two women kept it secret. Apparently, it was very common in their community.

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  • @Ironside at 3:20 p.m. “But being “unfree” is the lived experience of 1.4 billion Chinese everyday! ”

    In 2018, around 662,100 Chinese students left China to pursue overseas studies. The number increased by 11.74 percent compared to the previous year and makes China the largest country of origin for international students in the world.
    Source: statistica.com

    And rounding off that number to about 500,000 per year for the past 20 years, would mean that in the past 20 years 10,000,000 [ten million] Chinese students have studied abroad. I know that big shot men can afford to have a lot of women and a lot of children,but surely not even the members of the Chinese Communist Party are so fecund…unless of course that every Chinese is a member of the Chinese Communist party.

    In closing EVERY SINGLE YEAR as many Chinese as three times the population of Barbados leave China to study abroad, principally in the United States of America and other Western countries.

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  • The population of Chinese immigrants in the United States has grown nearly seven-fold since 1980, reaching almost 2.5 million in 2018, or 5.5 percent of the overall foreign-born population. Whereas in 1980 Chinese immigrants did not appear among the ten largest foreign-born groups in the United States, China in 2018 replaced Mexico as the top sending country. After immigrants from Mexico and India, the Chinese represented the third largest group in the U.S. foreign-born population of nearly 45 million in 2018.
    Source: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/chinese-immigrants-united-states-2018

    Like

  • Subject: Chinese emigration Source: Wikipedia
    “For example, in the early 1960s, about 100,000 people were allowed to enter Hong Kong. In the late 1970s, vigilance against illegal migration to Hong Kong was again relaxed. Perhaps as many as 200,000 reached Hong Kong in 1979, but in 1980 authorities on both sides resumed concerted efforts to reduce the flow.

    More liberalized emigration policies enacted in the 1980s as part of the Opening of China facilitated the legal departure of increasing numbers of Chinese who joined their overseas Chinese relatives and friends. The Four Modernizations program, which required Chinese students and scholars, particularly scientists, to be able to attend foreign education and research institutions, brought about increased contact with the outside world, particularly the industrialized nations.

    In 1983, emigration restrictions were eased as a result in part of the economic open-door policy. In 1984, more than 11,500 business visas were issued to Chinese citizens, and in 1985, approximately 15,000 Chinese scholars and students were in the United States alone. Any student who had the economic resources could apply for permission to study abroad. United States consular offices issued more than 12,500 immigrant visas in 1984, and there were 60,000 Chinese with approved visa petitions in the immigration queue.

    Export of labor to foreign countries also increased. The Soviet Union, Iraq, and the Federal Republic of Germany requested 500,000 workers, and as of 1986, China sent 50,000. The signing of the United States-China Consular Convention in 1983 demonstrated the commitment to more liberal emigration policies. Both sides agreed to permit travel for the purpose of family reunification and to facilitate travel for individuals who claim both Chinese and United States citizenship. However, emigrating from China remained a complicated and lengthy process mainly because many countries were unwilling or unable to accept the large numbers of people who wished to emigrate. Other difficulties included bureaucratic delays and, in some cases, a reluctance on the part of Chinese authorities to issue passports and exit permits to individuals making notable contributions to the modernization effort.

    There has additionally been a consequential component of Chinese emigration of illegal origin, most notably Fuzhou immigrants from Fujian Province and Wenzhounese from Zhejiang Province in Mainland China, specifically destined for New York City[30] in the United States, beginning in the 1980s. Quantification of the magnitude of this modality of emigration is imprecise and varies over time, but it appears to continue unabated on a significant basis.

    A much smaller wave of Chinese immigration to Malaysia came after the 1990s, holding the citizenship of the People’s Republic of China and mostly Mandarin-speaking Chinese from northern China.

    The only significant immigration to China has been by the overseas Chinese, who in the years since 1949 have been offered various enticements to repatriate to their homeland. Several million may have done so since 1949. The largest influx came in 1978–79, when about 160,000 to 250,000 ethnic Chinese refugees fled Vietnam for southern China, as relations between the two countries worsened. Many of these refugees were reportedly settled in state farms on Hainan Island in the South China Sea.
    Source: Wikipedia

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  • @Hal Austin August 17, 2020 4:39 PM

    Appreciate what you have shared. My church has been actively supporting “underground” missionary work in China for many years. I am sure others do. So I know there are many brave Christians in China . We just can’t talk details for obvious reasons.

    However the tide is turning. I leave you with this as food for thought:

    Like

  • Cuhdear Bajan August 17, 2020 6:42 PM
    @Ironside at 3:20 p.m. “But being “unfree” is the lived experience of 1.4 billion Chinese everyday! ”
    +++In closing EVERY SINGLE YEAR as many Chinese as three times the population of Barbados leave China to study abroad, principally in the United States of America and other Western countries+++

    I am glad that you are now taking this seriously enough to dig up stats. And they look good. But was it Mark Twain or Disraeli who said:

    There are lies, damned lies and statistics!

    Statistca.com is not an “official” global statistical organization. In any event, anybody who knows anything about Chinese statistics knows that they can’t be relied on. Even when they come from the IMF! Why? The CCP is a pathological lying and deception machine. Like all communists, they must tell lies even if they sound stupid to us! For example, nobody believes the numbers China has put out regarding deaths from the corona virus! Every person who has defected since the virus hit tells the same story: the numbers are 4 to 6 times greater than reported.

    But even if your student numbers are close enough we have another problem. Why do Chinese seemingly prefer western universities? Need a hint?

    The same site reports PCI at 9608 USD. View the video I just put up in response to Hal Austin and hear a Chinese talk about China’s PCI and other stuff which only a Chinese can help us understand.

    Do you know that China is the only country that tries to control its citizens who live overseas? Do you know that many Chinese overseas are pressed into spying for China? Do you know that those who want to defect are hunted by the Chinese government? Try 60 minutes Australia and try to come up to speed. I tell you again: stop watching the shytopian domestic crap being put out by the USA networks and try some of the different networks I mentioned in this article.

    Do you know that many Chinese students are shocked to find out things about China that they are not allowed to know at home? Do you know that Youtube and Facebook are banned in China? I could go on!

    NONE OF US IS REALLY FREE AS LONG AS THE CCP IS IN POWER!

    I leave this with you as food for thought:

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  • I don’t watch television. I don’t use Facebook nor Utube.

    I read widely though.

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  • fortyacresandamule

    China might be extreme in including labor in its bilateral loan package,but it is the same template used by other rich countries or multinational financing institutions. With large capital intensive projects, most developing countries only get a few cents on the dollar because labor is minimum and cheap. A substantial portion of that money flows right back to the country of origin.

    They usually hired their own consultants, lead contractors and technical people. Materials and machines are often sourced from abroad using a local middleman. This system is only marginally better than the chinese.

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  • @ Ironside
    You have raised a number of issues but to respond to all of them would mean my post would look more like a book chapter. So I will try to focus just on your fundamental points.

    You say you have no problem with China being what you called ‘communist’ but your issue is with its expansionist policies. Now this is strange because as I’m sure you know, the Chinese state is not the only one that practises expansionism. In fact, once capital is exported from a country either as foreign investment or as loans, the protection of these loans and investments and defence of the profit to be gained from them drives the state invariably into an expansionist direction. So expansionist state policies are a basic feature of a globalised capitalist economy and within this system, those states with the greatest military, political and ideological power will be the biggest expansionists.So China is not the only culprit and not even the main culprit in this regard. When the blogmaster invited you to explain why you were concerned about Chinese expansionism but didn’t seem to care about the expansionism of others, you dismissed his question as an invitation to engage in an academic debate.

    Since you haven’t explained your reasons for distinguishing between expansionist powers, I can ony guess at your motives from what you have said. Feel free to correct me if my guess is wrong. My understanding of your position from the contributions you have made is that your differentiation between the expansionist policies of dfferent states is based on the idea that those who practise Eurocentric forms of governance are defenders of democracy and human freedom, while the Chinese governance system is dictatorial and oppressive of human freedom. This claim, despite the fact that it is propagated far and wide by the defenders of Eurocentric governance, which they variously market under the brand names of representative democracy or liberal democracy, has absolutely no basis in reality and cannot be defended by evidence. As a statement of fact, the practitioners of the Eurocentric governance system are far and away the main global architects of genocide, war and oppression of human beings. There is no connection between Eurocentric governance and democracy and human freedom. In reality this distinction between ‘democratic’ and ‘dictatorial’ governments is only a politically correct modern version of the distinction between the ‘civilising European’ and the ‘savage native’.

    As an aside, I was recently in Grenada and visited the museum in St Geroges. There was an exhibit there which really caught my eye. It was an account written by an English sailor of his experiences fighting against the indigenous people. He said that the indigenous people called the sailors slaves because they had to follow the orders of their officers while indigenous people considered themselves genuinely free people who made their minds up for themselves. Of course in the European version of history, the invaders from Europe were the bringers of civilisation and human progress while the indigenous Kalinago people were primitive cannibalistic savages. But you can make your own mind up about who were the most advanced and civilised.

    If we want to have a discussion about what a democratic system of governance looks like, we would first have to agree a definition of what such a system means. For me I’m happy to go with the widely used ‘government of the people, by the people and for the people’. Using this definition, I would be hard pressed to distinguish between the governance systems in China and the Eurocentric governance system as it regards democracy. So I can’t see any basis for distinguishing between expansionist powers, whoever they might be.

    The issue I think the discussion raises for us Bajans is why after nearly 55 years of ‘independence’ we do not have teams of technical specialists who are able to design and oversee the construction of a suitable road through St Andrew. Why don’t we as a country have funds to develop our infrastructure and instead have to go cap in hand to whoever will lend us on the terms and conditions that the lender imposes? We can’t even feed ourselves and if some global catastrophe was to befall us which cut us off from imports, we would starve. These issues, to my mind, are far more important than lining ourselves up behind Trump, Bannon and Pompeo’s China bashing campaign.

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  • @Tee White August 18, 2020 9:47 AM
    My apologies for not responding sooner. I have been very attentive to my wife’s birthday which was yesterday. Don’t like the dog house!

    Let’s have this academic debate which you accuse me of avoiding. Let’s start with something simple.

    YOU SAY: My understanding of your position from the contributions you have made is that your differentiation between the expansionist policies of dfferent [sic] states is based on the idea that those who practise Eurocentric forms of governance are defenders of democracy and human freedom, while the Chinese governance system is dictatorial and oppressive of human freedom.

    IRONSIDE SAYS: Barbados practices a “Eurocentric form of governance” but it is not “defender of democracy and human freedom”. True or False?

    YOU SAY: The Chinese governance system is dictatorial and oppressive of human freedom.

    IRONSIDE SAYS: Agreed. I have said a lot more about its atrocities and have provided evidence that it is. Please provide evidence that it is NOT.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Let’s deal with your attempt to cross-hypothesize “expansionism” with the democracy / totalitarianism continuum. So let’s break it down into several hypotheses.

    YOUR HYPOTHESIS : Both democratic / totalitarianism countries have attempted to expand beyond their borders.
    IRONSIDE SAYS: Agreed

    YOUR HYPOTHESIS: Both democratic and totalitarian countries have oppressed peoples in the countries to which they have “expanded”.
    IRONSIDE SAYS: Agreed

    YOUR HYPOTHESIS: Expansionism is expansionism, therefore China should not be criticized for its expansionist policy.

    IRONSIDE: Cannot agree.
    According to the Cambridge dictionary online, expansionism is “increasing the amount of land ruled by a country, or the business performed by a company”. Simple but useful for our purposes.

    The axiological problem here is that expansionism is a value-free or value-neutral term. This means it does not say how one should expand or what ways we should regard as being acceptable to expand.

    But the world we live in is NOT value-neutral! In the west we value respect for human rights, freedom etc. We do and should bring our values to bear on how we “expand” or whatever else we do. Therefore, we do not accept bullying and stealing property (like the CCP is doing in the South Seas). Whether these practices (e.g. bullying and stealing) exist or have occurred in the past is immaterial to the current issue.

    We are making a deliberate value-laden statement because VALUES MATTER. You might not mind if an employer has to make you redundant. But you would appreciate advance warning. Better still, if he helps you find a new job or help with training. So what is done and how it is done are two different things.

    The CCP has its own set of values: They are opposed to “western” values (I agree this statement needs to be dilated) . I will not repeat some of their behaviour which is predicated on their values and is well documented.

    I do no expect you to understand if you do not deal with the facts on the ground. In so doing you risk supporting a regime that slaughters people just because they have a different view. Of course such a position easy for you take since China is so far away. What if it were in Barbados and you were a victim? Would you feel the same way?

    So I thought I had made made myself clear when I said in my previous posts that China is not only expansionist but wants to export it values. Does this help?

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  • @Tee White: August 18, 2020 9:47 AM
    +++++++
    The issue I think the discussion raises for us Bajans is why after nearly 55 years of ‘independence’ we do not have teams of technical specialists who are able to design and oversee the construction of a suitable road through St Andrew.
    +++++++
    We do! Plenty of them!
    We just ain’t got nuh money to pay them!
    Catch 22!

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  • @Tee White: August 18, 2020 9:47 AM
    +++++
    Using this definition [that democracy is] – government of the people, by the people and for the people- I would be hard pressed to distinguish between the governance systems in China and the Eurocentric governance system as it regards democracy+++++
    +++++

    If you had any idea how China [ and communist countries] are governed you would know this definition does not make sense! Even if you were deceived by the Communist Manifesto!

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  • Basically you are all pointing on the same path. As long as borrowed funds, whomever from, are used to finance projects with strings attached, then only borrow for critical projects.

    Are roads in St.Andrew critical? No. Might be cheaper, all things considered, in the long run to relocate the people there, considering that will be money spent inside the economy.

    Let agricultural ventures buy the land (at fair market value and no under the table) and farm (or joint venture with government). Plus, utilise current and more developing of hiking trails etc for ecotourism, along with wooden cabins for micro hotels. Otherwise, you will be spending another few million five years after the road is finished, to fix it, after more land slippage. Total waste of money.

    Besides, at least it will keep one part of Barbados away from ugly development and more concrete.

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  • @Crusoe

    A good comment.

    Like

  • @ Ironside

    I hope your wife enjoyed her birthday.

    To continue our discussion:

    IRONSIDE SAYS: Barbados practices a “Eurocentric form of governance” but it is not “defender of democracy and human freedom”. True.
    IRONSIDE SAYS: Agreed. I have said a lot more about its atrocities and have provided evidence that it is. Please provide evidence that it is NOT.

    My issue is not to prove that the Chinese government hasn’t committed ‘atrocities’ but to demonstrate that the evidence shows that these are no different to the atrocities committed by the other big powers.

    YOUR HYPOTHESIS: Expansionism is expansionism, therefore China should not be criticized for its expansionist policy.
    Correction: My view is that China shouldn’t be criticised any more or any less than any other expansionist power

    4.Let’s deal with your attempt to cross-hypothesize “expansionism” with the democracy / totalitarianism continuum
    This I think is the nub of the discussion. The idea that governance systems can be placed on a democracy-totalitarian continuum is a myth, a widely held myth, but a myth nevertheless. It distorts the reality with regard to how power is wielded in human society.

    In any human society where the state exists, standing as a power over society, claiming the exclusive right to the use of force and to impose its decisions on all in society whether they agree or not, that society is at one and the same time a democracy and a dictatorship. There is democracy among the rulers since they need that in order to discuss and sort out the problems they face and its a dictatorship for those who are ruled over and who are excluded from taking part in the decision making process. This recent study about the USA, pretty much sums up the fraudulence of the claim that some such continuum exists.

    Major Study Finds The US Is An Oligarchy
    https://www.businessinsider.com/major-study-finds-that-the-us-is-an-oligarchy-2014-4

    There is no evidence that ordinary people in the ‘democratic’ USA have any more influence on government action than those in ‘totalitarian’ China. The ‘democratic’ USA has the largest prison population in the world, not only in terms of absolute numbers but also per capita. It has a prison population of 2.1 million with a per capita incarceration rate of 655 per 100, 000 people and ranks as the worst imprisoner of its citizens, while ‘totalitarian’ China ranks 131st for imprisoning its citizens with a prison population of 1.7 million with a per capita prison rate of 120. This is hardly consistent with the idea that the USA is for human freedom whereas China is against it. The World Bank states that China has lifted 850 million people out of poverty while according to the Pew Charitable Trusts, poverty increased in 30% of all U.S. counties between 2016 and 2018. I know a number of people who have gone to work in China and none of them have ever reported to me that living there for them has been any different than living in the ‘democratic’ countries they were in previously. In fact, the main thing the black people have complained to me about is that they have been confronted by the same racism that they are fed up with in the ‘democratic’ countries.

    This lack of difference between actually living in ‘democratic’ and ‘non-democratic’ systems is consistent with my own experience of living in the UAE for 5 years since this country is not regarded as ‘democratic’. It points to the fact that the so-called distinction is a mirage and both systems are undemocratic.

    I’m not tryingt to defend the Chinese system of government here, I’m merely pointing out that life is a lot more complicated than simplistic propaganda caricatures in which the European ruling elites are the ‘good democrats’ and all those who oppose them are the ‘bad dictators’. As I’ve said, this is only a modern, politically correct version of the 19th century ‘civilised European’ and the ‘savage native’.

    In the west we value respect for human rights, freedom etc.
    I’m not sure who you mean by ‘we’, but if it includes the rulers of the Eurocentric system, it is palpably false and I would ask you to provide a single shred of evidence in support of it. Do you actually really believe that those who gave the world, genocide in the Americas, mass enslavement of Africans, racism, colonial oppression, wars of agression, which is not some historical behaviour which they have abandoned but continue today, have any connection with human rights and freedom?

    You could try telling that to the people of Libya who were living in Africa’s most developed country in a far more democratic political system than anything the Eurocentrics have come up with who, in 2011, had their country violently attacked and destroyed. During which, Black Libyans and west African migrants were hunted down, raped, tortured and murdered in probably the worst pogrom of racist violence in the 21st century. By the time they had finished, black people were being sold as slaves in Libya. The torment of the Libyan people continues to today. And you think the architects of this crime have respect for human rights and freedom?

    Like

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