Too Much Voodoo

grenville-phillips

Submitted by Grenville Phillips II,

The year 2020 was my year for playing shots – using Clyde Mascoll’s recent cricket analogy. This was to be the year of making significant investments, all of which would have benefited Barbados and Barbadians. Then Clyde got in the way.

Like so many other Barbadians, I have a mortgage. The only benefit of a mortgage is that it allows you to occupy your house about 10 years earlier. For that privilege, you get to pay the bank a lot of interest.

The amount that you borrow is called the principal. The amount that you repay is about 2.5 times the amount that you borrow. Therefore, if you borrowed $500,000, you get to repay the bank about $1.25M over 30 years.

The amount that you repay the bank, over what you borrowed, is called interest. The interest is about 1.5 times what you borrowed. So, if you borrowed $500,000, then you must repay the bank the $500,000 you borrowed, plus 1.5 times that amount, or an additional $750,000 in interest.

The amount paid to the bank during the first 10 years is almost the same as the amount you borrowed. While most of the amount you pay during the first 10 years goes towards the interest payments, some goes towards the principal.

If you had a responsible employer, then you likely have a retirement savings plan with an insurance company, or a bank. When you reach 55 years of age, the retirement funds must be paid to you. I encouraged persons to use those funds to pay the remaining principal, rather than paying interest for the next decade or two.

Over 5 years ago, I started warning people that the DLP would try to tax our retirement savings. By that time, they had taxed everything that could be taxed, and retirement savings was perhaps the only thing left. So, I tried offering economic growth proposals that did not require additional taxes.

Trying to get anyone to listen to economic growth plans 5 years ago appeared to be impossible. The national: accounting, economics, banking, and business organisations seemed to have only one aim – to get the DLP out of office, and the BLP in. The Chamber of Commerce actually passed a regulation to prevent me from sharing our economic growth plan with their members. That regulation is still in place – but only for me.

Even the DLP would not listen – they seemed to have the same agenda. So, one year later, our economic growth plan was published for public scrutiny, and Solutions Barbados was formed to contest the general election, and implement the plan for the benefit of the public.

If families could pay off their mortgages early, then everybody wins. Families would have significantly more disposable income to ‘play shots’, the government would reap the tax benefits of that additional spending, and banks would need to compete for short-term business growth loans – or go under.

During the general elections, I was on a panel with Clyde, where he told the audience that our plan was ‘voodoo economics’. So, we provided our anti-corruption, quality management, low-tax economic growth plan to individual economists and accountants, and received a very favourable report.

The independent expert confirmed that we could achieve $1B in surplus during our first year, without borrowing, laying off a single public worker, or reducing salaries. He further noted that all political parties pushing high-tax austerity needed to review our plan.

After the general elections, Prime Minister Mottley, to her credit, acknowledged that the BLP did not have all the answers, and instructed her party that all ideas must contend. But Clyde would not. The BERT leadership publicly admitted that they never looked at our economic growth plan, and dismissively noted that they would never look at it.

Last week, BERT signalled that they had failed miserably to grow the economy. All they had to show for the past 20 months is: severe austerity, high taxes, zero economic growth, and arrogant public relations to hide their gross incompetence.

Last year I reached 55 years – but it was too late for me. The clown car had rolled up the year before, and Clyde and company tumbled out – and started performing tricks. They did what I was warning that Sinckler would do – but wisely chose not to. They confiscated much of my retirement savings, and passed a lunatic law to make that theft legal.

Mercifully, they left me with just enough that I could still pay off the mortgage, and start playing shots this year. But that was too much voodoo for Clyde. So, they decided not to release all my money until 2033. They have now entered the comedy phase of their routine – telling us to ‘play shots’. With what Clyde, with what?

Grenville Phillips II is a Chartered Structural Engineer and President of Solutions Barbados. He can be reached at NextParty246@gmail.com

356 comments

  • de pedantic Dribbler

    For all of us @ David. To what avail this forum from a supposed political candidate who has been proven to be spewing unvalidated theories!

    To what avail YOU facilitating him with his unvalidated details!

    You take YOUR site seriously I must imagine so when an essayist writes weekly and is shown to be ill-equipped on his facts and yet YOU allow him to use your site to continue his verbiage then you are as complicit in his folly.

    You are too smart bro, so don’t lets play another game here.

    If you want to allow Grenville to stroke himself weekly on your site despite him being taken apart as totally unprepared with facts and currently bordering on being an absolute liar (re an accountant has field tested his tax regime, yet he refuses to provide data) then that is surely your prerogative…. I am just bemused as to WHY YOU WOULD DO THAT!

    We are all sensible boys and girls here and surely a few savant types like @Pieces…so no silly games, senor!

    I gone.

    Liked by 1 person

  • This represents many people’s inner voice in today’s world. THIS WORLD ENCOURAGES AND PROMOTES DOMINANCE AND POWER. However, there are many others like Grenville Phillips 2 who are GENTLE AND APPLY SOFTER APPROACH IN FACING THIS WORLD, which never should be perceived as weak, THE FIERCEST STORMS RISE FROM THE CALMEST SEAS.

    Like

  • Some of us are now catching up that GP11 IS INADEQUATE!

    LIKE I TELL MY STUDENTS, I USE A SIMPLE MARKING SYSTEM, THAT HAD HIM FIGURED OUT EARLY O CLOCK

    ALL THE FACTS=> ALL THE MARKS
    HALF FACTS=> HALF MARKS
    NO FACTS=> NO MARKS

    Liked by 1 person

  • I guess it was necessary for you to have facts and figures before you could put aside your gentlemanly tendency to be generous and give the benefit of the doubt. It is also normal to believe that a qualified engineer must have intellectual capacity worthy of consideration.

    You and I had all that in common and any review of my earliest responses to Grenville would reflect that reality.

    But here’s the thing – I learn from all kinds of experiences and one of them is literature. Agatha Christie’s ace detective Poirot’s method was to engage all persons around a murder to determine their character. He did this by just letting them talk. I have adopted that practice and I have discovered that Hercule Poirot/Agatha Christie
    methods are invaluable and place me one step ahead in character assessment. But unlike Piece and GP, I may see the signs but often question my assessment, unwilling to write a person off immediately. But there is a limit to my generosity!

    After months of reading his submissions, I did not need to see Grenville’s tax policies to know that they would be rubbish. He left clues ALL OVER THE BLOG that they could be nothing else. He LIES when lies are unnecessary. His brain is strangely deficient. He is childish. He is unteachable. He has a serious problem with criticism. He thinks he is “better” than others. And he tries to cover it all up by hiding behind a holier than thou Christian facade culminating in his silly “sermons’ every Monday. These tax policies prove what i have been saying for weeks. Grenville does not fully research or seek to understand his subject matter. He strings things together in a slap dash, hodge podge, willy nilly manner without regard for context. He does not even understand context. He does not provide any evidence to back up his submissions. .

    The same man who writes the “sermons” is the man who wrote this tax policy. There are not two men. Only one!

    And to quote him –
    .

    “Be guided accordingly!”

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  • @ Donna

    I think what many don’t understand about VAT is this. Let’s take a supermarket for example. Traditionally their pretax profit is low around 2% of sales , however their sales are large. So they collect a hell of alot of VAT as an agent for the state, but have a small pretax percentage per dollar sold.

    Then you may have a boutique say, their mark up is higher so their pretax may be 6% of sales, but the amount they collect in VAT is way lower than the supermarket.

    The point therefore is that high VAT collection does not translate to high profit for the business, it is the nature of the business that dictates this. That is why when we discuss corporation tax one must never include VAT in the discussion, as it can differ like night and day depending on the nature of the business and is based on sales and not profit. The ground rule is we are all only tax agents for the state’s Vat nothing more and nothing less. Unless we plan to “carry em way” as we say here. Apparently though that is not a crime as the last forgiveness by the state showed when $400M in VAT was FORGIVEN.

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  • WHAT ARE THE IDEAS THAT BU HAS TO OFFER AS TO WHAT IS DEEMED A FREE MARKET?

    WHAT IS DISPLAYED HERE IS ABOUT FORCE THROUGH SOCIALISM AND GOVERNMENT MEDDLING IN THE ECONOMY!

    Now observe that a Free Market does not level men down to some common denominator—that THE INTELLECTUAL CRITERIA OF THE MAJORITY DO NOT RULE A FREE MARKET OR A FREE SOCIETY—and that the exceptional men, the innovators, the intellectual giants, are not held down by the majority. In fact, it is the members of this exceptional minority who lift the whole of a free society to the level of their own achievements, while rising further and ever further.

    A Free Market is a continuous process that cannot be held still, an upward process that demands the best (the most rational) of every man and rewards him accordingly. While the majority have barely assimilated the value of the automobile, the creative minority introduces the airplane. The majority learn by demonstration, the minority is free to demonstrate. The “philosophically objective” value of a new product serves as the teacher for those who are willing to exercise their rational faculty, each to the extent of his ability. Those who are unwilling remain unrewarded—as well as those who aspire to more than their ability produces. The stagnant, the irrational, the subjectivist have no power to stop their betters . . . .

    THE MENTAL PARASITES—THE IMITATORS WHO ATTEMPT TO CATER TO WHAT THEY THINK IS THE PUBLIC’S KNOWN TASTE—are constantly being beaten by the innovators whose products raise the public’s knowledge and taste to ever higher levels. It is in this sense that the Free Market is ruled, not by the consumers, but by the producers. The most successful ones are those who discover new fields of production, fields which had not been known to exist.

    A given product may not be appreciated at once, particularly if it is too radical an innovation; but, barring irrelevant accidents, it wins in the long run. It is in this sense that the Free Market is not ruled by the intellectual criteria of the majority, which prevail only at and for any given moment; the Free Market is ruled by those who are able to see and plan long-range—and the better the mind, the longer the range.

    ALL THE EVILS, ABUSES, AND INIQUITIES, POPULARLY ASCRIBED TO BUSINESSMEN AND TO CAPITALISM, WERE NOT CAUSED BY AN UNREGULATED ECONOMY OR BY A FREE MARKET, BUT BY GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION INTO THE ECONOMY.

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  • @Dee Word

    Do you know why some software instructors are of the view students should be taught to write virus code? If you understand the logic to such a view you will understand the blogmaster’s position.

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  • @Donna

    Let me show you how one is fooled here by looking at VAT benefiting a companies profit. We will keep it simple by comparing say a small supermarket vs a boutique in a mall both doing business on the same day.

    Monday sales.

    Boutique sells $ 1175 for the day
    VAT on above is $175
    Sales net of VAT $1000
    pretax @6% of sales =$60

    supermarket sells $ 3525
    VAT on above $525
    sales net of VAT $3000
    pretax @2% of sales= 60

    So both make the same pretax profit but one collects 3 times the VAT for the state on Mondays sales because it sells 3 times as much.

    The above is why one must never discuss vat when discussing profit and corporation tax

    Hope this helps to explain the mystery know as VAT

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  • HERE IS WHAT BARBADOS NEEDS …LESS GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION/REGUTLATIONS/ CONTROLE, TO ALLOW A FREE MARKET ECONOMY TO PROSPER

    WHERE ARE YOUR IDEAS BU, ALL FREEDOM HEARS ARE YOUR COMPLAINTS AND CONDEMNATION YOU ARE STUCK AT VAT WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU TO OFFER?

    In a Free Economy, where no man or group of men can use physical coercion against anyone, economic power can be achieved only by voluntary means: by the voluntary choice and agreement of all those who participate in the process of production and trade. In a free market, all prices, wages, and profits are determined—not by the arbitrary whim of the rich or of the poor, not by anyone’s “greed” or by anyone’s need—but BY THE LAW OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND. The mechanism of a Free Market reflects and sums up all the economic choices and decisions made by all the participants. Men trade their goods or services by mutual consent to mutual advantage, according to their own independent, uncoerced judgment. A man can grow rich only if he is able to offer better values—better products or services, at a lower price—than others are able to offer.

    Wealth, in a Free Market, is achieved by a free, general, “democratic” vote—BY THE SALES AND THE PURCHASES OF EVERY INDIVIDUAL WHO TAKES PART IN THE ECONOMIC LIFE OF THE COUNTRY. Whenever you buy one product rather than another, you are voting for the success of some manufacturer. In addition, in this type of voting, every man votes only on those matters which he is qualified to judge: on his own preferences, interests, and needs. No one has the power to decide for others or to substitute his judgment for theirs; no one has the power to appoint himself “the voice of the public” and to leave the public voiceless and disfranchised.

    INTELLECTUAL FREEDOM CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT POLITICAL FREEDOM; POLITICAL FREEDOM CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT ECONOMIC FREEDOM; A FREE MIND AND A FREE MARKET ARE CONSEQUENCES.

    The Free Market represents the social application of an objective theory of values. Since values are to be discovered by man’s mind, men must be free to discover them—to think, to study, to translate their knowledge into physical form, to offer their products for trade, to judge them, and to choose, be it material goods or ideas, a loaf of bread or a philosophical treatise. SINCE VALUES ARE ESTABLISHED CONTEXTUALLY, EVERY MAN MUST JUDGE FOR HIMSELF, IN THE CONTEXT OF HIS OWN KNOWLEDGE, GOALS, AND INTERESTS. Since values are determined by the nature of reality, it is reality that serves as men’s ultimate arbiter: if a man’s judgment is right, the rewards are his; if it is wrong, he is his only victim.

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  • Keep up the effort Grenville.

    Consider these as living documents, gather the input and modify at a later date.

    The effort to label and package with you with a stamped “Best used before 2023” continues unabated.

    Hang in there my friend. Don’t close up shop.
    ——————————–xx——————–xx———————————————-
    Disclaimer: All. Don’t take comments as directed towards you; these are general comments. Read and ignore or just scroll by.

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  • Correction…LESS GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION/REGULATIONS/ CONTROL, TO ALLOW A FREE MARKET ECONOMY TO PROSPER

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  • John A,

    I think that it is true that many people do not understand VAT but in some instances they have not had it explained to them in a manner as simple as you and Artax have here. These people are not running for political office and expecting, as leader of a party, to become prime minister in the event of an election victory.

    Anyone who cannot understand what you and Artax have done here SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. To continue to do so is not serving the county’s interests. My only consolation is that Barbadians are not as foolish as Americans. He cannot fool enough of them to win an election. But still, “Make sure is better than cocksure.”

    PS. I maintain that VAT is not a tax that the government has the right to forgive. It was money taken from the customer under false pretext. It was our money. We paid a higher price for the commodity than was advertised. Other taxes do not come out of a customer’s pocket and the government can forgive as it deems fit. But what happened here is that government took money out of the pockets of some poor people and gave it to some pretty rich folk.

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  • @ Donna

    Yes that analysis is 100% correct. One could call this a case of theft of the costumers money due to the state but stolen by the collection agents.

    It is a clear case of state funds being stolen and should have been dealt with it as such. If government was afraid to press for collection, then they should of called in a foreign debt collection agency to pursue the thieves and offer them say 25% of all they can collect.

    That move truly angered me as I have paid in mine every 60 days religiously from its inception. That is why I say we don’t have a bad taxation system, however we have a piss poor collection system.

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  • After all this and you could come with that comment! You are not so stupid that you cannot understand that this man has NO CAPACITY to be prime minister. It is not that his proposals need tweeking or that they are flawed in a minor way. They are ludicrous! And he cannot even understand the most basic accounting concepts when explained so simply to him. His claim that any professional lauded these proposals and confirmed that they would wipe out the deficit and produce a surplus of $! billion dollars could only be a lie and that is why he cannot name the professional.

    Bearing all this in mind, one would have to ask if YOU have a hidden agenda!

    You are now alone in the company of Looney Tunes. That should tell you something.

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  • de pedantic Dribbler

    @Donna, no arguments with your overall assessments above… And yes in life as in blogging I give folks a huge benefit of the doubt.

    The fact is also that Phillips was a man who translated words into action; I had direct interface with him on that regard previously so I avoided calling him a liar or a con or pretender or any of that.

    However, I very clearly called him OUT from day 1 for what I ‘termed’ his 6th form Solutions presentation.

    It reached a point that 1) he refused to respond to me, calling me stupid names and 2) the Blogmaster enquired if he and I had some issue from ‘school days’.

    The latter was off based as the man is 4-5 years my junior or some such and was never in scouting or cadets so I certainly would not have know him from his school from a camp or jamboree !

    In short I was NEVER taken in by the BS… I simply refused to vilify him as you guys did.

    At this point I am placing the emphasis on the BLOGMASTER for allowing Phillips to continue to obfusate and waffle in the face of renewed practical, detailed and precise queries/analysis.

    A lot of that was asked at inception also … On taxes and the insanity of his law n order plan… So now almost 2 years later I am just tired of you guys weekly bashing him and doubly weary of his ridiculous waffling…

    … Time to step up or shut up and also close out this weekly bash regime!

    Not a damn thing to do with now “cathing up” to perceived inadequacies nor “necessary […] to have facts and figures”.

    I gone, peoples.

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  • de pedantic Dribbler

    @David, I missed this until after my just previous post…

    I can surmise along a few lines to ‘hand-stand’ your : “Do you know why some software instructors are of the view students should be taught to write virus code? If you understand the logic to such a view you will understand the blogmaster’s position.”.

    But bro, to write a virus code it means you deeply better understand the damage and intricacies of the programme…

    What dangers are you trying to help us grasp by guiding us through this literal ‘writing’ weekly of this Phillips virus.

    Figuratively we have been infested with detrius and we are averse to any effectiveness of the Phillips application.

    Pray clarify!

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  • Not getting into any exchanges.
    I will continue to be positive towards GP2.
    I wish him well and hope he does well, now and in the future.

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  • de pedantic DribblerFebruary 15, 2020 2:30 PM

    However, I very clearly called him OUT from day 1 for what I ‘termed’ his 6th form Solutions presentation.

    It reached a point that 1) he refused to respond to me, calling me stupid names and 2) the Blogmaster enquired if he and I had some issue from ‘school days’.

    The latter was off based as the man is 4-5 years my junior or some such and was never in scouting or cadets so I certainly would not have know him from his school from a camp or jamboree !

    In short I was NEVER taken in by the BS… I simply refused to vilify him as you guys did.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Look at what you wrote here! That is precisely what happened to me! CRENVILLE VILIFIED ME FIRST!

    All I did was call him out on the inadequacy of his submissions and he accused me of being a “hater”, “bringing poison as usual” and being envious of people who are better than I am, namely himself.

    And most here chose to ignore what he did to me as though somehow he should be privileged to say what he wants about others without response. I became the “cyberbully” who had personal issues with Grenville or had a hidden agenda for responding to someone who had first insulted me.

    Well let me tell all of you something. I have NEVER been fazed by what men say because I actually KNOW who I am.

    And if David, for reasons best known to himself (but which he has hinted at above) continues to present this JOKER to us on BU I will have NO CHOICE but to bash his hard pig head into the ground EVERY WEEK.

    I will make NO APOLOGIES for doing so because as Piece has said almost from Day One- HE MUST NEVER BE ALLOWED TO ENTER THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. He is that dangerous mixture of ignorance, stubbornness and moral certainty, convinced of his “betterness”, holier than thou, “touch not the Lord’s anointed” that he would put Mia to shame in the dictatorship race.

    Have you noticed that Piece hasn’t had a lot of time to bash “Mugabe” lately? He has seen an even greater threat and it is Grenville. Because TO THOSE WHO ARE NOT DISCERNING or paying attention, Grenville is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. His sheep’s clothing needed to be stripped away. If people get fed up of more taxes and civil service dismissals, the attacks on pensions etc etc with no assurances that this is the end, Grenville’s promises may be their only hope.

    But alas! He is hopeless!

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  • PS – ‘He turns words into action.” Same could be said of Donald Trump. How’s THAT working out for ya?

    #notbouthere

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  • John A:

    You are grossly mistaken. We explained that everyone must pay VAT at 10%. Therefore VAT is very relevant. To ignore it is grossly inaccurate. You should know that – so why do it?

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  • Theo:

    We predicted that discussing arithmetic with BU bullies and haters is a complete waste of time. That is why we recommended that accountants and economists review our plan and give their opinion. Extreme politically partisan supporters and haters do not like that rational approach.

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  • Don’t clutch at TheO’s straws! He does not live here and cannot save you. It is the likes of ME you have to deal with!

    Soooo….you lie again! Here is a rational approach for you.

    If you wanted the professionals to review your plan and give their opinion why is it that SILLY WOMAN had to extract it from your website and bring it to BU? Maybe you did so years ago, but someone inviting scrutiny would have made it easy for those who were asking and posted it again. I suspect your plans were rubbished then by posters and you did not want a repeat.

    And for some reason one professional, PLT, who seemed to have been in the habit of posting to your website believes he has now been blocked!

    Don’t mess with Ms. Marple! She and Hercule Poirot evolved from the same brain!

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  • Thing is that the accountants and economists have reviewed your plan and are of the same opinion as the “BU bullies, haters, extreme politically partisan supporters (who ever they be) and the bringer of poison who is envious of the fact that you are better than she is! (If I thought that I would probably kill myself!)

    They are just more polite than we are.

    But you are making the same mistake Hillary Clinton made when she labelled some of the voters she would have needed to win over “deplorables” and did not even grace certain “lowly” states with her presence.

    Stupid!

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  • nextparty246February 15, 2020 4:16 PM

    Theo:

    We predicted that discussing arithmetic with BU bullies and haters is a complete waste of time. That is why we recommended……

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Who is this “we” to whom you keep referring? Is this a ROYAL “we”? You know what they say about people who use the royal “we” and those who refer to themselves always in the third person!

    Delusions of grandeur!

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  • Royal we
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The royal we, or majestic plural (pluralis majestatis), is the use of a plural pronoun (or corresponding plural-inflected verb forms) to refer to a single person who is a monarch. The more general word for the use of a we, us, or our to refer to oneself is nosism.

    Speakers employing the royal we refer to themselves using a grammatical number other than the singular (i.e., in plural or dual form). For example, in his manifesto confirming the abdication of Grand Duke Constantine Pavlovich, Emperor Alexander I begins: “By the Grace of God, We, Alexander I, Emperor and Autocrat of All the Russias ….”.[1]

    Like

  • @ Granville Phillips aka Bedroom Policeman aka Iso TALIBAN aka buy wunna Caskets!

    Donna, whom you call the hater, continues in each of her post to provide clear indisputable evidence that you are ill suited to the task government

    And she is right that I have focused on you of late because you are a plant to deter people from considering the Third Party option BY SHOWING YOURSELF INCOMPETENT and thereby tarnishing to others!

    And that is the strategy of the Minister of Disinformation as well

    But you are encouraged to continue with your simpleton unworkable solutions because you WIll NEVERSEE THE INSIDE OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY.

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  • Has Solutions got an economic spokesman?

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  • @ next party 246

    I never said you didn’t discuss vat I said it can not be grouped in with income when it comes into discussing corporation tax.

    Also I am neither a bully nor a hater just a realist. My point to you is that a flat tax of 10% of sales will shut every company in Barbados based on current profit margins being achieved in the region of 4 % of sales. That is undeniable.

    The issue I was showing Donna is how a company that collects alot of money in VAT does not mean it makes alot of money in profit. By extension if you slap a 10% final tax on say a supermarket with a pretax profit of 2 % you will cause it to lose 8% of sales in one year!

    What bout dat so hard to understand?

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  • @ John A

    Pick who you discuss financial economics and economic policy with. What we need is for the government to name and shame the businesses that are using VAT as cash flow. I will bet most of the Social Partnership mob do not pass on their VAT.

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  • John AFebruary 15, 2020 5:51 PM

    @ next party 246

    What bout dat so hard to understand?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Nothing!

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  • @ Hal

    I agree with you their names and amounts owed should have been published 3 Sundays in a row for all to see in every news paper!

    They are thieves and nothing else!

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  • @John A

    What about the companies owed VAT? How should we treat with the government?

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  • @Hal

    Now follow their logic. They forgave a business that lets say sells cornbeef what maybe tens of thousands owed in vat. However if someone went in there and stole one can of the said cornbeef he would of been loss way at Dodds for 6 months!

    Morrow of the story is “thief big and you safe.”

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ david.

    The companies owed VAT should be deducting the VAT on new sales from what is owed until such time as the books are balanced. Government brek so we must all work together to reach a workable solution. In other words if I owe you land tax and you owe me vat let’s chat.

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  • @John A

    The whole system is compromised due to inefficiency.

    Any thoughts why VAT due in the 96 to 2000 period was selected as the write off period? Given that VAT was implemented in 96?

    What recourse should companies have that were forced out of business because of government being brek? Our own Adrian Loveridge has been writing for years that he is owed thousands.

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  • @John A

    Can companies of their own volition offset?

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  • Gp2

    BU is full of hater, bully and political ( whatever name u called them)

    I counted two supporter for u here in BU
    And one probably cannot vote for u.

    Questions

    Why do u come in BU then?
    Why weekly?
    What are you trying to achieve/who are you trying to convert over to your side?

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ David

    There is provision to offset on trade. The problem is that in special development projects etc that VAT can not be offset by trading VAT. So there may be large amounts say in development project claims that await payment from the state. Then you have the zero rated companies too mixed up in there.

    It’s a vicious circle as the $400M had it been collected and paid out, could of gone a long way in helping everyone out.

    As I said our tax system is not that bad now, it’s our collection systems that continue to fail us.

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  • @ David

    In other words look at VAT as a revolving door. Vat comes into the state coffers and when spent on capital works etc creates more vat in the system, which is again paid into the state through the same revolving door. The loss of $400M means that will now not be there to go through the door anymore.

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  • @John A

    The additional consideration is when government inefficiency and bureaucracy cause legitimate business to fail.

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  • John2
    I am interested in your political calculus.

    What makes you think a Bajan is unable to vote.

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  • de pedantic Dribbler

    @Donna, to each their own!

    Phillips insulted and maligned me as well but I opted to dismiss the man.

    I don’t think (well I know I am not) that I am smarter than others here so from the moment this bro started calling folks who challenged his Solutions (on their factual merit) ‘haters’ and political bandits planted by others I saw him as a political jackass and thus I fully anticipated others did as well.

    You can either ride a jackass for your pleasure but endure it’s braying, endure it’s braying from a distance or get it far away from you.

    I did 1 then 2… #3 is well in process now.

    Let’s also appreciate that to offer a slate of candidates and create a functioning apparatus to contest an election is the work of a ‘DOER’!

    In that context one should not underestimate the man…but there is absolutely no way this gent can win a majority of seats in Bim.

    He would be taken apart by dirty politics and his family unit I suspect would cause him to withdraw.

    Politics is a NASTY game and when opponents start to mouth off about what mistresses his ‘esteemed, reverential’ ole man had and why Phillips Jr divorced and all that BS stuff that has not one jot to do wid anything but simply causes people to get really pissed … Do we really see THIS man dealing with that….

    And then we still have to get into the real stuff!

    Fah real tho , why do we continue to address Grenville in this political space as a SERIOUS player…

    The man is a gad fly activist and so be it… He is NOT a potential Bdos leader in HofP… Although he surely thinks he is!

    All of our huffing and puffing simply fills him with more hot air!

    Later do… I gone again.

    Like

  • It is not a matter of being smarter overall. We are smarter than others at different things. Therefore a wolf in sheep’s clothing will find some people lagging around to devour and others will have recognised the wolf and hightailed it out of his reach long time! Or to put it differently some people smell a rat faster than others because they have a keener sense of smell.

    Take for instance his tax plan. I know many people who are intimidated by such things and would therefore not even try to figure out how ridiculous they are. I know people who are too busy earning their daily bread to spend time analyzing from scratch. I know people who are too exhausted. It is for these people that we must point things out. And the format of BU and the spiciness of some posters makes it an entertaining learning experience that is less taxing on the brain. People who do not attend lectures do attend Laugh it Off. People who do not watch MSNBC do watch Kimmel, Colbert and Trevor Noah. Same facts, different presentation. They laugh and they learn. No sweat!

    Like

  • PS. I do agree with you that he couldn’t possibly win an election in Barbados but as I said, “Mek sure better than cocksure!”

    Did you have Trump to win in 2016? He was taken as a joke, was he not?

    Like

  • RE All of our huffing and puffing simply fills him with more hot air AND PROVIDES US WITH AN ABUNDANCE OF MIRTH

    LET THE MAN CONTINUE TO EXHIBIT HIS DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR AND LET US ENJOY LAUGHING AT HIS FOLLY
    LIKE WHEN HE SPOKE OF UNNECESSARY AMPUTATIONS INTER ALIA

    Like

  • RE Did you have Trump to win in 2016? YES I DID. I SURE DID LONG BEFORE HE WON THE NOMINATION

    RE He was taken as a joke, was he not? BUT HE IS CERTAINLY NO JOKE. NOT AT ALL

    TO MENTION TRUMP AND GRENVILLE PHILIPS IN THE SAME MOMENT IS BLASPHEMY OF THE HIGHEST ORDER

    Like

  • “Blasphemy”,: GP? Even Trump hasn’t gone there yet! Even though he has referred to himself as the Chosen One. I thought it was tongue-in-cheek.

    “Treason” is outrageous but “blasphemy” is at another level altogether! Even said tongue-in-cheek the use of that word is alarming!

    Like

  • John A February 15, 2020 6:52 PM “As I said our tax system is not that bad now, it’s our collection systems that continue to fail us.”

    An accountant American friend of mine worked as a tax collector, armed with a gun to give the task some heft.

    Wunna tink if we try dat in Barbados people would pay up?

    Asking for a friend.

    Like

  • Theo

    Do u understand the meaning to the word – probably?
    I know free/paid education was wasted on you

    Like

  • I simple so i will give a simple example.

    A pensioner with an income of $40,000 per year currently pays 0 (zero) income tax per year. That pensioner has already paid nuff, nuff in income tax in his/her 40-50 years in the workforce. The pensioner is dealing with various age related issues, health issues, transportation issues-can’t drive at night etc. may need now to pay for some housekeeping help and so forth.

    That pensioner pays VAT, and property tax. The property tax for the average 40,000 per year pensioner is likely a modest $300 or so.

    Under the Solutions Barbados 10% flat tax proposal that pensioner wold have to pay $4,000 per year in income tax.

    One: Everybody understands now?

    Two: Why would that or any pensioner in similar circumstances vote for Solutions Barbados?

    Answers please. Thanks.

    Like

  • de pedantic Dribbler

    @Simple, don’t get into disinformation with that tax officer and gun remark.

    That type of tax agent is registered to carry a weapon and does. There are specialist fraud/criminal investigators… other regular types of tax officers do not.

    What does an investigative officer have to do with Bdos regular tax collection inefficiencies!

    @Donna, actually after he won the nomination and specifically AFTER the ‘pudena grab’ remarks and then the Comey presser yes I absolutely thought he could win.

    After he bounced back from that insane commentary about taking liberties with females or rather when Clinton could NOT put him away after that I realized she was truly despised and then when Comey blew her up again after her assistant’s husband had stuff on his computer it was clear she was dead on the wire!

    I also followed the little heard of Professor who had predicted previous elections and called 2016 for the despicable man and I also paid attention to that running poll by the LA Times which projected him to win.

    Let me add that from where I sat, I basically thought she was a loser the day the news broke about how she handled her email server. I thought that episode showed her of ridiculously incapable as getting into the WH.

    Anyhow. That’s almost ancient history now.

    Like

  • John A:

    You excluded VAT from a calculation to achieve a gross error of 50 times. That is simply bad arithmetic.

    Like

  • GP2 THE USE his same example and she where he went wrong then put in the correction so that other can understand

    Like

  • then use his same examples and show where he went wrong.

    show us how good you arithmetic is/can be

    Like

  • Silly:

    Everyone who is earning an income in Barbados’ economy pays tax. That is fair.

    If they are not earning, but simply receiving a pension from already taxed income, then that is not income to be taxed.

    People can easily avoid certain taxes, like land tax as we have described. VAT will be reduced.

    Like

  • John 2:

    I already explained the two options, and also showed how both of them, using his scenario, would result in a lower tax requirement. Yet, he insists on ludicrously excluding VAT, so that he can erroneously promote his 50 times nonsense. That is being intellectually dishonest – and he must know that. I was hoping that he was an independent thinker, with whom I could have had a rational discussion.

    As repeatedly explained, discussing numbers with haters is a waste of time. Not one of the BU haters has recommended a single economist or accountant to provide another independent review. They just cannot help themselves.

    Like

  • John A has not said anything personal about you. He has been polite and not at all partisan in any of his submissions on this or any other BU blog. He has addressed only the issues. Yet you call him a hater. Now let’s say you are right and he is wrong, could it not be that HE just doesn’t understand? No, with you he would have to be a hater!

    You have a serious personality disorder!

    PS. Why are you assuming that no-one here is an accountant or an economist? Why would they need to recommend another to do a job that they can do themselves?

    Enough of you now! Enough!

    Liked by 1 person

  • ” He is that dangerous mixture of ignorance, stubbornness and moral certainty, convinced of his “betterness”, holier than thou, “touch not the Lord’s anointed” that he would put Mia to shame in the dictatorship race.”

    Grenvile is dangerous to the majority Black population on the island whom he sees himself better than, he certainly did not endear himself to me when he rushed out to defend the cousins in the palace who are intent on reenslaving the African descended so they can return to Africa and do what they do best, rape, murder, pillage and plunder.

    … although these little house negros are well aware that these same colonial trash have done nothing but violate the African descended continously and without pause in the last 150 years, it makes no difference to them…..but that is what house negros do, there have been too many of these sell outs in the parliament in the last 60 plus years, he is one that must never be put in the house of assembly.

    That is what happens when as a negro, am sure he does not consider himself African descended, he jumped out to defend the colonial criminals who are still hellbent on destroying the African descended including his black stupid self.

    Like

  • @John2
    “Theo

    Do u understand the meaning to the word – probably?
    I know free/paid education was wasted on you”

    Reasons why I do not engage in exchanges. They move to insulting/personal/confrontational in no time.
    Enjoy the day.

    Like

  • THOE

    TOUCHY TOUCHY

    My bad WAS was meant to be WASNT .
    was replying on the phone and on the move.

    I KNOW FREE/WASTED EDUCATION WASNT WASTED ON YOU !

    Like

  • de pedantic Dribbler

    @Theo, that’s like a VSOR Cockspur steeped tiramisu coming from you brother; very rich, way too sweet and very dangerous! 😂

    I recall many moons now taking you up on a comment – on its merits or lack thereof only, of course – and expected to generate some discussion on the differering views.

    Alas what did I get: a skidding, nasty bouncer from you off a very a short length which surprised the daylights outta me. You said in effect to paraphrase: oh, don’t mind you fool, ‘even a broken clock is right twice a day!’

    And now you cry foul about not engaging due to quick personal barbs…. must be some sorta boomerang virus that is deadly infectuous to all then, right!

    As it turned out that was the last time my broken clock ever pinged back to you and this is that full rotation to the broken point again.

    So the other thing I can say that is broken other than my BU clock is rampant BU hypocrisy…

    Have a Great Sunday brother.

    Like

  • GP2

    I am not an economist or am I good in arithmetic. As you see I stay away from such discussions. I read the discussions but did not put any effort into studying then. outside of the figures/ arithmetic, I think I understand what A and Artax is pushing that yours. Maybe you should try a different way of explaining >

    I also agree with Donna about the name calling (hater etc). Form what I see it seem like it your attitude that turning most of BU into the haters etc. I remember having a difference of opinion than you and was told I was doing the work of my political masters (when I have none).

    IMO it was you who drew people to SB at a time when probably the best for a third party in Barbados. It is also YOU who has turned people away from SB ( especially your attitude and interaction with the “haters” here on BU)

    Even if you polices were proven to be workable I do not think the masses will vote for SB because of YOU.

    That’s just my opinion but you don’t have to worry about me. I don’t vote just moral support to the party I think is best at the time.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ next party 246

    What I got to do to get you to understand VAT can not be included in ANY discussion relating to profit. Profit is based on PREVAT sales.

    So 10% final tax on $ 10 million dollars prevat is $1,000,000 dollars in tax from the business to the state.

    The other way 4% NET PROFIT PRETAX on $10M = $400,000.
    THE TAX RATE NOW IS 5%, SO 5% OF $400,000= $20,000 BAJAN DOLLARS IN TAX TO THE TREASURY UNDER THE CURRENT TAX SYSTEM.

    NOW IF YOU DIVIDE YOUR OPTION OF A $1 MILLION IN TAX BY THE CURRENT TAX PAID OF $20,000 YOU GET A RATE OF TAX OF 50 TIMES THE CURRENT AMOUNT AS $1M÷20k=50!

    Leave the VAT out the discussion it can not enter any conversation on corporate taxation as it is the state’s money and not the companies.

    Like

  • GP2

    the pensioner scenario was just an example. Exchange the pensioner to a gas station attendant, NCC worker, a maid etc
    low paid workers.

    lets us use maids (none current paying tax)

    Maid 1 is single with no kids $100 a week = $10 in direct tax.
    Maid 2 would also be paying the same tax but is a single mom with kids to feed/school/raise and rent to pay.

    Do you think any of these two maids would vote for SB?

    Like

  • GP2

    From my limited knowledge I tends to agree with John a last post.

    Like

  • What are the unemployment numbers in barbados
    Does Private business by law have to report numbers of dismissed workers to govt
    What is the present inflation number in barbados
    Parliament was recently dissolved but nothing during the periods which parliament met was their any mention of release data given on unemployment or inflation leaving the people to guess
    From my vantage point this is the worst govt ever worst because of being deceptive in all it has done so far
    The Hyatt had a starting time period of Feb 2020 suddenly the Hyatt has become a sleeping giant languishing in the winds of empty promises by present govt
    A govt that made promises to put money in peoples pocket has taken away much of what people have
    Imagine buying a jug of Orange juice for 30.00 dollars on minium wage
    Where is the transparency and accountability on all that was promised to the people
    How much will it cost the taxpayer to blow up the NIS building
    How much will it cost the taxpayer to build the park
    How much would it cost the taxpayer to maintain the park

    How much does govt expect of a profitable return on the taxpayers money for all the above mentioned
    Where is the media voice in asking those questions

    Like

  • Thanks DpD

    Let me assure you that they are several others who could have written some of what you wrote.

    Wasn’t our exchange sometime in the distant past. I do not recall what initiated such a response from me and It pains me that those few loose words remain with you to this day.

    You have demonstrated that words loosely tossed on BU and forgotten, often remain in the minds of others. In addition, I have seen statements from others that informs me that my words were taken much more seriously than I intended them to be taken

    With the passage of time I have moved to a state where I now try my hardest not to offend by attacking others or in defending myself.

    Let me add that I did not cry foul above, I merely made a statement defining my new position. I will continue to try to not exchange and to not engage in one-to-one conversations. Your words have strengthened my commitment towards this course of action.

    I apologize for hurting you or offending you in anyway. On my end, we have reached and passed the maximum number of exchanges.

    To you and to those whose names I did not mention – I apologize. I wish you well. Have a great day.

    Like

  • GP2

    I think what A. is saying is similar to what is going on with the sanitation being paid to BWA
    It is collected by BWA for SSA so it cannot be counted as BWA money

    You want to “harsons” I take it you should be able to figure that out now.

    VAT = SSA share of the water bill

    Like

  • I hope that GP2 takes notes of the many objections/comments and refines and polishes up his political messages. I see his contributions as work in progress and subject to changes.

    I have seen comments which seem to suggest that a manifesto is nothing more than a talking point published during an election. Why must we hold GP2’s feet to the fire and give others a free pass.

    GP2 must point out that these discussion points are living documents which will be upgraded prior to the next elections. It is 2019/2020 and not 20223.

    I continue to wish him well.

    Like

  • Definitely not 20223. Not even 2023.

    Like

  • @ nextparty246 February 16, 2020 12:22 AM
    “As repeatedly explained, discussing numbers with haters is a waste of time. Not one of the BU haters has recommended a single economist or accountant to provide another independent review. They just cannot help themselves.”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Up to now you have not addressed the query about your proposed tax regime (of “10% on all revenues”) being applicable to the international business sector, to the hotel and restaurant industry or to the financial services enterprises like banks credit unions and insurance companies.

    Why are you avoiding this most pertinent issue involving significant commercial and vital foreign exchange earning sectors of the struggling Bajan economy?

    Would you be prepared to address the matter if you were asked (nicely) by the Blogmaster called David the innocent child to respond?

    “When the emperor parades before his subjects in his new “clothes”, no one dares to say that they do not see any suit of clothes on him for fear that they will be seen as stupid. Finally a child cries out, “But he isn’t wearing anything at all!”

    Like

  • pea brain public nuisance #1

    Why don’t you make and appointment and go and ask your questions at parliament or government house or give them to franklin to ask for you?

    isn’t the unemployment and inflation numbers in the CBB report that came out late last month?

    Wouldn’t these same numbers come up again next month in the budget and then again in april for the first quarterly report and then each quarter after?

    Like

  • @miller

    Not only the offshore sector how would a 10% final tax affect every Travel agency, real estate company and commission company on the island. They work for between 5% and 10% on a transaction so when you take 10% of their sales in tax, what they got to work with and pay wages out of. The answer is zero.

    @ John 2

    Your example of the BWA acting for the SSA as a collection agency is a perfect example. They are doing the same thing say as MASSY would, that is acting as an agent for the state and collecting vat on their behalf.

    I would question this policy of 10% on gross turnover whether it was presented by Grenville, Mia or Depeiza. All GP2 needs to do is simply review his plan, fix its deficiencies and let’s look at it again that’s all.

    Like

  • Kuncklehead
    Govt policy dictated by Mia is to throw citizens out of Parliament accompanied by police who dare enter to ask questions of govt
    One such person Patrick King said he was was held up as an example
    Therefore i dare not become a public example thrown into a position to be laughed at in the public domain by a govt who rules with an iron fist
    Albeit that Parliament is not owned by them ministers or PM
    Nevertheless i could not help but to think to myself that Mia throwing out one of her better supporters and giving some others of questionable character entry to Parliament on the day of ministers taking the oath was enough food for thought
    So u see Kuncklehead i would not fit into the latter and my entry would be met with an ironclad fist.

    Like

  • Allow me to make a few general observations

    You cannot give all those whose opinion differs from you the same weight. I have not seen any comments from VC on this page (3) and so I will use name as an example. If Vincent Codrington came with an opinion that is different from yours, then you should be careful how you classify/categorize him. From what I have seen of the man, I believe he would be giving you his honest opinion; nothing more, nothing less. I hold the same level of respect for some who made comments and have a different opinion than yours. Make that distinction, even when the bullets are coming fast and furious.

    Your answers are correct but your explanations are not clear

    Your answers are incorrect and need to be modifiedYour answers are correct but your explanations are not clear

    Be flexible, but don’t be blowing in the wind. Examine the ideas and adopt only what you consider as useful.

    At this stage, do not advance positions/ideas as if they are made in stone. We don’t want to be running the unchanged 2018 campaign in 2023.

    You cannot comment on everything by yourself. Your team should be providing support even if anonymously. Some topics may require the inputs from people who have strong expertise on that topic.

    I hope that others make note of your strength and determination under continuous fire.

    Like

  • Consider that your answers are incorrect and need to be modified

    Consider that your answers are correct but your explanations are not clear

    I know it is hard to be open when you are constantly under attack, but see this as an opportunity to polish your message.

    I wish you well, brother,

    Like

  • @ Mariposa

    Official unemployment figures are hardly ever right. There is a tendency to underestimate: by omitting the so-called economically inactive, including stay at home mums. Since the war, the biggest rise in employment has been women. So, many women often give up looking for work because they cannot find
    Then among the economically inactive so-called are the long-term unemployed who no longer get up in the morning looking for work; why should they; the sick and mentally and physically disabled; we know that many disabled people can do certain jobs.
    Then once you have reached retirement age you are no longer counted as unemployed. Nonsense. A large number of elderly still work – and want/have to work.
    Then the biggest fraud of all, are the hidden unemployed: omitting students from the numbers and those who are over-qualified for their jobs. . Many people return to full-time education because they cannot get a job, or become so-called self-employed. (look out for management consultants)..
    With unemployment figures we want to know the methodology. In Barbados the central bank figures often differ from those of the statistical service.

    Like

  • VC absence is noteworthy. No comments or likes hope he is ok and enjoying himself.

    Like

  • John A:

    You appear to be misleading readers. You declared that businesses would be paying 50 times the amount of tax that they currently pay under our tax system. We showed you where you appeared to be obviously mistaken in your calculation. Yet you insisted on that claim.

    We provided two tax options. One was to reduce VAT to 10% and abolish Corporate taxes. Clearly, this would result in businesses paying less tax. Reducing VAT from 17.5% to 10% can only result in that business paying less in VAT. Yet you insist on making your claim – which we deem to be false.

    The other tax option was to abolish VAT and apply a 10% sales tax. If you are going to do a comparison with taxes before and after the implementation of our system, then you should compare the Corporate tax plus VAT that businesses currently pay, with the 10% sales tax that we proposed.

    What you insist on doing, is to compare the current corporate tax with the proposed 10% sales tax, and ignoring the VAT that we plan to abolish – which we think is entirely incorrect.

    Unfortunately, it has gotten to the predictable point where 1+1=8.236. The obvious solution is to invite an independent arbiter to give an opinion on this matter.

    Perhaps the Blogmaster can ask a professional accountant or economist to contact each of us, and then give an opinion here. That seems to be the only rational way forward to bring some clarity.

    Since we are not able to convince eachother, do you agree with the proposed approach, and are you willing to participate?

    Like

  • TheO:

    Please note that BU is like an unregulated cage match. People are allowed to hide behind fake names and behave as they wish – or truly are.

    Here, you will find political supporters who will do anything to defend their party. It is rare, or impossible to have a rational discussion with them. Any point that does not enhance their party, or enhances another party, they must oppose – to the point where 1+1=8.362.

    Here, you will also find the extreme political supporters. These are the worst of us. Their aim is not only to oppose everything, but to hate – unrelentingly. Donna, Piece, and GP are the exemplars here on BU.

    So, while your suggestion is a good one, and one that has been implemented in other fora. It will have no impact whatsoever on the quality of discussion here. It will simply present the resident BU bullies with another target to hate. It is better that they keep targeting me.

    Like

  • @ next party 246

    I have given you multiple examples of reality. VAT DOES NOT COME INTO PROFITABILITY OR CORPORATION TAX STRUCTURES.

    To reduce VAT to 10% will effect the states income by reducing it. It will in no way affect the companies financial position.

    The 10% final tax on sales will cripple businesses and you have been shown how several times by others besides me. All examples used current tax tables and compared them to your proposed 10% on gross prevat sales.

    Artax also went through this line for line and confirmed what I am saying. You can check with every accountant and business man on the island and none will tell you different.

    Numbers when attached to the correct formula can not be manipulated regardless of how much we want to change them.

    Rather than beat a dead horse I suggest we drop it here, as to pursue it is pointless as the base numbers will never change nor will their application.

    Like

  • “We provided two tax options. One was to reduce VAT to 10% and abolish Corporate taxes. Clearly, this would result in businesses paying less tax. Reducing VAT from 17.5% to 10% can only result in that business paying less in VAT. Yet you insist on making your claim – which we deem to be false.”

    IF you abolish corporate taxes businesses will be paying less taxes – 100% less – in other words they will be keeping all the revenue/ profit.

    Like

  • abolishing corporate taxes and reducing vat to 10% will leave you with a big deficit

    Like

  • option 2 seem to be the same as option to me

    Like

  • “The other tax option was to abolish VAT and apply a 10% sales tax. If you are going to do a comparison with taxes before and after the implementation of our system, then you should compare the Corporate tax plus VAT that businesses currently pay, with the 10% sales tax that we proposed The other tax option was to abolish VAT and apply a 10% sales tax. If you are going to do a comparison with taxes before and after the implementation of our system, then you should compare the Corporate tax plus VAT that businesses currently pay, with the 10% sales tax that we proposed.”

    IF the intention is to keep the 5% corporate as present then this would only be decreasing VAT by 7.5% which will lead to less taxes for government coffers.

    if it is removing the 5% corporate tax and just keeping the VAT at 10% then it is the same option as option 1.

    Like

  • VAT is commonly expressed as a percentage of the total cost. For example, if a product costs $100 and there is a 15% VAT, the consumer pays $115 to the merchant. The merchant keeps $100 and remits $15 to the government.

    A VAT system is often confused with a national sales tax. With a sales tax, the tax is only collected once—at the final point of purchase by a consumer—and so only the retail customer ever pays it. The VAT system is invoice-based and collected at several points throughout an item’s production, each time value is added and a sale is made. Every seller in the production chain charges a VAT tax to the buyer, which it then remits to the government. The amount of tax levied at each sale along the chain is based on the value added by the latest seller.

    Like

  • @ John A

    RE: “We provided two tax options. One was to reduce VAT to 10% and abolish Corporate taxes. Clearly, this would result in businesses paying less tax.”

    Reducing VAT to 10% WILL NOT AFFECT the company’s financial position. It only means the BRA will COLLECT 7.5% LESS in taxes.

    However it is important to know IF Grenville is going to reduce VAT to 10% and KEEP the CURRENT VAT SYSTEM.

    RE: “The other tax option was to abolish VAT and apply a 10% sales tax. If you are going to do a comparison with taxes before and after the implementation of our system, then you should compare the Corporate tax plus VAT that businesses currently pay, with the 10% sales tax that we proposed.”

    You probably recognized, Grenville (and Freedom Crier) are confusing the issue by using the terms ‘sales tax’ and ‘VAT’ interchangeably. And, perhaps that’s the reason why he’s insisting on combining corporation tax and VAT.

    Another way to explain why VAT cannot be included in sales, is by illustrating a simple double entry process for recording VAT. Please note, since I’m just giving a simple example, it won’t be necessary to calculate cost of goods sold, etc.

    Obviously, there has to be a VAT control liability account, with input VAT and output VAT as sub-accounts.

    Using Freedom Crier’s figures:

    (1). Sales including Vat $10,000,000, Vat on Sales 17.5% $1,489,362;

    (2). Bought Good @40% Vat Inc. COG $4,000,000; Vat paid on Goods bought $595,745. Note, FC’s figures relate to cost of goods, only.

    (3). For SALES = Bank = $10,000,000; sales = $8,510,638; VAT output = $1,489,362.

    (4). For purchases = $3,404,255; VAT input = $595,745; Bank = $4,000,000.

    Note, from the double entry, SALES are ACTUALLY $8,510,638.

    When the company filed its VAT return: output tax – input tax ($1,489,362 – $595,745) = $893,617.

    The $893,617 is the AMOUNT the company COLLECTED on BEHALF OF and subsequently PAID OVER to the BRA. As such, we can’t say the burden was upon the company to PAY the BRA $893,617 in VAT. In other words, that money should not be ‘mixed up with the company’s money at all.’

    If actual sales = $8,510,638, with a 4% pretax profit = $340,425; then 5% corporation tax = $17,022.

    Using the same figures, if VAT is abolished and replaced with Grenville’s 10% tax ON sales, then the company would pay = $8,510,638 x 10% = $851,064.

    Using the same 4% profit, then $340,425 – $851,064 = (510,639).

    Under the current system, a company can also claim:

    (a). VAT on capital purchases, services or anything that is directly involved in its operations.

    (b). Depreciation expense.

    Under Grenville’s system of a 10% sales tax and no deductions, if the company purchases equipment for $10,000, it will incur a 10% sales tax of $1,000, which cannot be reclaimed or 20% depreciation claimed as well.

    Like

  • RE: “We provided two tax options. One was to reduce VAT to 10% and abolish Corporate taxes. Clearly, this would result in businesses paying less tax. Reducing VAT from 17.5% to 10% can only result in that business paying less in VAT. Yet you insist on making your claim – which we deem to be false.”

    Mr. Phillips II

    Reducing VAT to 10%, while maintaining the current VAT system, will only result in consumers and firms PAYING 7.5% LESS for goods and services.

    However, you must UNDERSTAND that VAT is being COLLECTED by the FIRM, on BEHALF OF the tax collection agency and, therefore, does not affect the firm’s financial position. In other words, reducing VAT from 17.5% to 10%, only BENEFITS the CONSUMER, who would pay 7.5% less for goods and services.

    If corporation tax is abolished, your “no deductions” would automatically fall in place, because the firm would NOT be liable to pay any taxes. Hence, there wouldn’t be any need to claim allowances.

    So, in reality, your first option benefits consumers, in that they would pay 7.5% less for good and services…… and firms, because they would also pay 7.5% less for goods and services and the abolition of corporation tax means they are not liable for taxation.

    Let me try to explain as simply as is possible, without becoming too technical by introducing mark-ups, etc.

    Sales at $10,000,000 (VAT incl) – $1,489,362 (17.5% VAT) = actual sales of $8,510,638.
    Let’s assume the firm realizes a 4% profit of sales = $340,425.
    Under the present system, corporation tax = 5% of profit = $17,022.

    Under SB’s system:

    Sales at 10,000,000 (VAT incl) – $909,091 (VAT 10%) = actual sales of $9,090,909
    4% = $363,636.

    Under your system of no corporation tax = $363,636 x 0% = $363,636.

    All that happens here is the firm collect less VAT from customers.

    Like

  • @ Artax

    GP2s plan of 10% vat on sales and no corporation tax also opens him up to a massive income shortfall. He has slashed his VAT income by 40% while also abolishing corporation tax estimated this year at around $50M. When you couple the 40% loss in VAT revenue to the $50M in corporation tax you are talking a loss on revenue to the state in the hundreds of millions every year.

    How will this shortfall be made up pray tell GP2?

    Like

  • @ John A

    I also posted an example of the 10% tax on sales, but it seems to have been lost somewhere in ‘cyberspace.’

    Like

  • A suplus of $1B ???? to much voodoo?

    Like

  • @ Artax.

    Well the 10% final tax on sales would destroy all the companies struggling now with a profit of 4% sales.

    Can you from memory remember what the total Vat take was for the state last year? I am curious to calculate what a 40% fall on this would equate to in dollars and don’t have the last central bank report on hand.

    Like

  • de pedantic Dribbler

    @Artax n @John A, you gents are diligent. Kudos!

    Based on these many words of discourse and as I recall from Mr Phillips previous mouthings the economic upsurge from his plan would be based on a massive expenditure from those with the new larger disposable income in hand.
    Quite simple really!

    As long as they are freed from burdensome taxation, he has spoken fondly of the ability of those like himself to drive activity (lawn sprucing, maid services/home maintenance, investing in new startups, as egs)

    In short, the awesome supply side planning made popular under Reagan in the US.

    Forget about how its paid for! This is all so simple…and one astute very qualified accounting chartered fellow has already ran all the numbers anyhow,.. so why question this maths that doesn’t make sense !🙃

    Are we not in a Trumpian upside-down world of say whatever you want to and fudge the data!

    Years ago I fella like this man would have drawn 500 plus enthusiastic Bajans at his first mass meeting at Independence Sq but by now he would have been down to five regulars, two hecklers and about 6 stray dogs listening to his unscientific, numbers-missing palaver at Baxter Rd corner…. and planning for some liver cutters afterwards. But now, although we have the hecklers, and the regulars there is only about one stray dog who likes a PC glace; and the liver cutters definitely are missed!😂

    Lata.

    Like

  • @ Artax

    Thanks will take a look when I get back to office and see what the total Vat was the state collected last year and hence what a 40% cut would mean in $$$ terms.

    Like

  • nextparty246February 16, 2020 10:22 PM

    TheO:

    Please note that BU is like an unregulated cage match. People are allowed to hide behind fake names and behave as they wish – or truly are.

    Here, you will find political supporters who will do anything to defend their party. It is rare, or impossible to have a rational discussion with them. Any point that does not enhance their party, or enhances another party, they must oppose – to the point where 1+1=8.362.

    Here, you will also find the extreme political supporters. These are the worst of us. Their aim is not only to oppose everything, but to hate – unrelentingly. Donna, Piece, and GP are the exemplars here on BU.

    So, while your suggestion is a good one, and one that has been implemented in other fora. It will have no impact whatsoever on the quality of discussion here. It will simply present the resident BU bullies with another target to hate. It is better that they keep targeting.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    You see what I mean by unteachable?!

    First, my name is not fake and many people have figured out who i am by personal details I frequently divulge. I have no fear of being discovered because they know me to be far from perfect, but generally fair and certainly inclined to quick temper but never hate. But there are people who frustrate me with their ignorance.

    You are one such person.

    Now we have shown you, DPD whose default stance is to be gentlemanly and I, that you have a tendency to overreact to criticism and make it personal. The evidence is HERE ON THIS ACTUAL BLOG that you did the same to John A but you behave as though people cannot read and you try to present yourself as some blameless victim who is being hated and cyberbullied.

    EVERYTHING I HAVE SAID ABOUT YOU SINCE FIRST YOU LABELLED ME FOR CRITICISING YOUR PRESENTATIONS IS TRUE!

    PS. I do not oppose everything or everyone. Not even you. I have agreed with you on more than one occasion. I have agreed with TheO on many occasions and will undoubtedly do so again. I also agree and disagree with Piece and GP. The evidence is ALL over BU! Sometimes I agree with Mia and sometimes I disagree.

    You are not Donald Trump! And we are not Americans! You do not have the charisma necessary to shoot somebody on Broad Street and not lose any supporters. Neither do you have the ability to convince us to believe what you say despite what we have seen AND READ with our own eyes! And we still know that –

    1 + 1 = 2

    No matter what you say.

    “Be guided accordingly!”

    Like

  • Artax:

    To add a 10% sales tax on the existing VAT is unconscionable. We planned to abolish VAT since it is a very unfair tax. Obviously if we added a 10% sales tax to VAT, everyone would pay more tax.

    Like

  • @ Artax.

    Sorry for the delay had a look at what a reduction in VAT from 17.5% of sales to $10% as outlined by GP2 Would mean to the state so here goes

    VAT collected between April 2019 to December 2019 = $ 702.3 M

    For some reason the first quarter file is showing a 404 error hence file may have been moved or renamed. Anyhow no problem we will pro rate.

    If $702.3M was collected in 3 quarters then prorated to included the first quarter the VAT collected for 2019= 702.3÷3×4= $ 936.M

    Now GP2 is recommended we drop Vat to 10%. So that is a 43% reduction from the 17.5% now. So his plan means a drop in VAT revenue to the state = $402.65M in a single year.

    So my question is how will the state recover this massive revenue loss under GP2s plan? What new taxes will be raised to make up this $400 MILLION revenue drop?

    I mean I is only a one door shopkeeper in St Philip who could add and subtract little bit, so I asking how GP going finance this shortfall? Plus I ain’t no Hater i just does work in the real world.

    Like

  • John A:

    You cannot have it both ways. The VAT is a tax applied to the product’s price, and is collected from the consumer and given to the Government. The business can then claim the VAT on expenses.

    A sales tax is also applied to the product’s price, and is collected from the consumer and given to the Government.

    In your reality, VAT does not affect the profitability of a company, so you have excluded it. Also in your reality, a sales tax applied in the same manner will. So much so that you claim “Well the 10% final tax on sales would destroy all the companies struggling now with a profit of 4% sales.”

    If you are excluding VAT from company profits, then you must also exclude the sales tax. Is that not fair John A?

    After insisting that our proposals will cause businesses to pay 50 times more tax that they are currently paying, you also claim that the Government will take in less tax from businesses.

    If businesses are paying 50 times more taxes, but the Government is collecting significantly less revenue from those increased taxes, where is the money going John A?

    I have already invited you to have this resolved by a competent arbiter. Why resist that? Why keep this going?

    Like

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