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IF Mia Cares She Should Stop ‘Picking-on’ the Public Service!

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Submitted by Charles Skeete

[Barbados Underground] There are enough unpaid taxes and debts due and owing to the Government which if vigorous efforts are made to collect would make the spectre of job losses avoidable and that should have been the first order of business on assuming office because there is no such thing as painless layoffs.

Whatever strategy is employed in relation to job cuts would as a consequence be painful to the jobless.

If the government cares and we are all in it together, the new government which has not really completed a work cycle to merit vacation pay should refrain from taking the increase if they really cared since it would not relate to their time in office but the previous administration who would more have a rightful claim.

They could also abolish temporarily or permanently the unnecessary perks given to senior public officers in Government and at statutory boards. They could even consider a Tom Adams like surcharge which would touch the entire workforce rather than penalize public servants all the time who make up a small portion of the economy.

What about those self employed persons who pay no taxes or NIS THEY SHOULD BE THE ones targeted and stop using the public service as a whipping boy just because they are on the system and easy to get at. The list of indebtedness to the Government is easy to compile. Get up off your asses and do some work and stop looking for the easy way out which is counter productive anyhow since our economy like a meeting turn depends on what is circulated and layoffs takes money out of circulation and stagnates the economy.

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149 responses to “IF Mia Cares She Should Stop ‘Picking-on’ the Public Service!”

  1. Artax Avatar
    Artax

    If transfers and subsidies to state owned enterprises have been reduced to an estimated 12.5% of GDP, then further reduction could be achieved by looking at SOEs such as Commission for Pan African Affairs, UDC and RDC.

    What has this entity done since it was established other than organize the Emancipation Walk to Bussa statue on Emancipation Day?

    Under the Owen Arthur administration, the Housing Welfare Department of the National Assistance Board was closed to establish the Urban and Rural Development Commissions……. which meant the hiring of additional employees, despite the fact that a few employees were transferred from NAB to UDC & RDC.

    So…..he essentially created TWO statutory corporations to undertake the job NAB was doing.

    Government could privatise the Transport Board but maintain control of or regulate bus fare.

    There could be an amalgamation of National Petroleum Corporation and Barbados Water Authority.

    Is there a need for a National Cultural Foundation to organise NIFCA and the Crop Over Festival only?

  2. sirfuzzy (i was a sheep some years ago; not a sheep anymore) Avatar
    sirfuzzy (i was a sheep some years ago; not a sheep anymore)

    Under the Owen Arthur administration, the Housing Welfare Department of the National Assistance Board was closed to establish the Urban and Rural Development Commissions……. which meant the hiring of additional employees, despite the fact that a few employees were transferred from NAB to UDC & RDC.

    OSA was possibly trying to position the economy for the boom that all and sundry thought was coming or was going to continue. But it went bust. Strangely enuff there is a boom bust cycle that some economist say is inevitable. I guess OSA was not one of those economist of that school of thought. So it is what it is. Many hands make light work; if u subtract 4000 pairs i guess the load get heavier? Just asking

  3. Piece Uh De Rock Yeah Right Avatar
    Piece Uh De Rock Yeah Right

    @ NorthernObserver
    @ Peter Lawrence Thompson
    @ Artaxerxes
    @ Mr. Bernard Codrington

    NortherObserver said and I quote…”The blame game continues every day on BU. It is not about blame, it is about today’s public expenses. ALL of them. If “we” cannot find an operational balance, the IMF will find it for us…”

    I am not an economist IN FACT I CANT COUNT PAST 20 on good days

    What would this suggestion of a 4/30ths scaled furlough (i teif that word from Mr James Greene) do as it relates to that

    “…Overall Government expenditure is ~32% of GDP;
    4. The largest areas of Government expenditure are:
    (a) transfers to State Owned Enterprises (12.5% of GDP)
    (b) interest on debt (7.6% of GDP)
    (c) salaries & wages (7.4% 0f GDP)…”

    that Peter Lawrence Thompson enumerated?

    @ Artaxerxes

    heheheheheheh what de dashiki wearer of african garb do you?

    heheheheheheheh whu we ent talking bout de wastage of $1 million dollars from the World Bank project dat get give to he from the National HIV project

    heheheheheheh man come and give an exposee nuh!

    And lef Derrick Alleyne de next Derryk alone at Urban heheheheheh he doing alot of “building” of houses and “helping” de small man heheheheheh

    https://i.imgur.com/dBebtVE.png

  4. Tron Avatar
    Tron

    @PLT August 17, 2018 1:16 PM

    Thank you very much for your detailed analysis. You use optimistic numbers. Do you believe they are in line with reality, given that all past predictions for the last decade failed?

  5. Crusoe Avatar
    Crusoe

    @Bernard Codrington ”The idea that the main Public Service is too large is IMF ideology based ”

    Far from only that. when you have to visit three or four different places to get approvals and documents for one matter, it becomes ludicrous, speaks to crass inefficiency and red tape that is appalling.

    Much of what needs to be done, should be done by online activity, even if the jobs behind the scene are processing duties.

    It is appalling and it makes personal or commercial business very sluggish.

  6. Charles Skeete Avatar
    Charles Skeete

    In my over thirty six years involvement in Trade Union activity both locally and regionally, like even in own families there has always been divisiveness between the leadership in the management of union affairs due to a lack of interpersonal relationships and/or power feuding. Fortunately, unions like the BWU and the NUPW because of their solid foundations have been able to weather these storms sometimes stoked by a media eager for gossip. However I would caution union leaders to recognise that times are changing and issues which attracted membership are no longer as evident as before and the younger generation has other options. Thus union leadership must be careful not to further alienate the membership by opening up themselves to allegations of mistrust.
    That said Barbadian workers should be eternally grateful to Unionism for the tremendous benefits which they have obtained over the years through the agitation of Trade unions.

  7. Charles Skeete Avatar
    Charles Skeete

    I do believe that the Government should only be in the business of health education and security.
    As Artax suggested the transport board should be privatised but regulated. I think it was a deliberate ploy by the Tom Adams administration to allow the transport system to fall into the hands of a few unscrupulous entrepreneurs with access to capital after hounding out efficiently run transport services like eg Progressive, Elite and Roocklyn.
    I am in agreement with the suggestion to amalgamate the Urban and Rural commissions or return responsibility for their services to the NAB.
    It is an unwise decision for the Government to continue to extravagantly subsidize CBC which is of no benefit to taxpayers. This too can be privatised and subject to regulatory control.

  8. Piece Uh De Rock Yeah Right Avatar
    Piece Uh De Rock Yeah Right

    “If Mia Cares…” as this article intones then she would be seeking all means to do the following like the Bahamas “…NASSAU – The Bahamas government has welcomed the rating ratings given to the country by the United States-based rating agency, Moody’s Investors Services, saying it reflects stabilisation in the Bahamas credit profile following four years of successive downgrades…”

    That news article continues…

    “…“As outlined in the recent budget exercise, the Government’s combination of economic initiatives, including:

    the introduction of focused fiscal measures;
    the imminent introduction of fiscal responsibility legislation;
    moves to stimulate domestic economic growth through support for Bahamian entrepreneurs and small businesses;
    and the substantial pipeline of major investment within the country

    will lead to strong and sustained economic growth and a stable macro-economic trajectory for the country…”

    Which brings the ole man to this particular matter

    http://www.tribune242.com/news/2012/nov/29/bahamas-moves-intellectual-property-rights-legisla/

    Excerpts from that article that are pertinent to my comments follow

    “The Attorney General’s office is very active with respect to modernising the intellectual property regime. The entire Registrar’s department is being redone from scratch to be more digital, more modern and really responsive to the international community,” said Mr Pinder….”

    I genuinely wonder about if our AG Teets Marshall can say the same? But let me not talk bout that causing I will reveal the experiences under “HIS REGIME”

    But to continue with this matter

    “…We speak about wanting to be a trade hub and industrial centre, so we can’t expect companies to come and do business in the Bahamas and bring their technology if they don’t have the confidence that it is protected on the international level.

    “That is why we have to work to modernise our intellectual property regime. It’s in the context of our legislative reform for trade and World Trade Organisation (WTO) accession as well as the EPA; it’s a requirement of our Economic Partnership Agreement signature a well.

    Leh de ole man read that again

    “…We speak about wanting to be a trade hub and industrial centre, so we can’t expect companies to come and do business in [BARBADOS]…”

    You hear all this Hub talk?

    Wunna getting the point about how the Bahamas has been respectful of what a man owns? and how AFTER 4 years of hard work they could be on the upswing?

    Wunna tell me where barbados is in this regard? and what is their policy going to be as with regard to IP protection for entrepreneurs?

    Wunna hear Sandra “Pretty Mouf” Husbands talking bout this critical side of this entrepreneurship spiel?

    And the resounding word from all of these Ministers in the Office of the Minister of the Ministry of “X” is “we ent hear one fart causing they DO NOT HAVE A POLICY…

  9. Mariposa Avatar
    Mariposa

    Charles Skeete from your last comment it seems as if your heart is crying out on and reaching out to the members on behalf of the hierarchy of the Unions who have all but fell asleep
    Yesterday for a 45minute period the union ranks close the port down in anger against the way they were treated bybthe BWU whom they said had reached a backdoor agreement with present govt without them being notified

  10. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Tron August 17, 2018 10:03 PM
    “You use optimistic numbers. Do you believe they are in line with reality…
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    I’ve used the most reliable numbers I can find, most of them from the Central Bank directly or via the IMF. I think that the cuts I outlined are drastic and will hurt a lot of households quite severely, so I don’t think of them as optimistic. I have not found a reliable source for the current size of the public service, so I can’t estimate the number of households that would be hurt to achieve a 17% to 18% wage and salary expenditure reduction.

  11. Charles Skeete Avatar
    Charles Skeete

    Mariposa like in the closest of families, in political parties even in the church differences in the management of affairs would always occur so nothing to gloat about. You did not empathise with the public workers and criticize the unions when they abdicated their responsibility of bargaining for rightful wage increases over the past eight years for their membership who sacrificed much without any thanks.

  12. Mariposa Avatar
    Mariposa

    Sir my only problem with the Union and there approach with past givt in regards to wage incresse for the public servants was the high percentage the Unions took to the bargaining table
    One which in all fairness was unattainable and could not be sustained in any long term agreement given the state of the economy
    Also the force upon which the Union met with govt with threats of workers strikes if demands wrte not made
    In my opinion the Union heads are nit worthy if any sympathy and for what it is worth has become a nuisance group with self serving attitudes and glorious ambitions unto themselves
    Hence their quickness to throw their members half a bone under the guise of “getting something” is better than nothing
    Now all look forward to see the serving of the other half of the bone as the public servants unwillingly is thrown under the bus
    In my mind the Union heads are ungrateful and many heads should roll for their callous and self serving manner in the way they have treated their workers to a measly 5% wage increase

  13. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    PMMAM, looking out for the common man takes vulva…
    https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/australianz/new-zealand-passes-ban-on-foreign-homebuyers-into-law

  14. Piece Uh De Rock Yeah Right Avatar
    Piece Uh De Rock Yeah Right

    @ Peter Lawrence Thompson

    My question is to you since you seem to be the person who has categorized the areas of expenditure in such derail

    What effect would a 4/30ths scaled “furlough” where employees would work 4 out of 5 days each week and would have 4/30ths of their salary deducted (AND BE ENTITLED TO MAKE PURCHASES SYSTEM WIDE with a 4/30ths deduction

    What would such a proposal for an indigenous salary reduction as a national austerity programme have on your numbers PLT?

    where you have stated that “…the largest areas of Government expenditure are:

    (a) transfers to State Owned Enterprises (12.5% of GDP)
    (b) interest on debt (7.6% of GDP)
    (c) salaries & wages (7.4% 0f GDP)…”

  15. Charles Skeete Avatar
    Charles Skeete

    I am still curious Peter to learn the extent to which shrinking the civil service would help lower the fiscal deficit and what levels would be targeted to make the exercise meaningful?

  16. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Piece Uh De Rock Yeah Right August 17, 2018 11:28 PM
    A wage/salary reduction scheme where public servants “would have 4/30ths of their salary deducted” would save 13.3% of government wage expenditure, so would not be sufficient by itself unless the government exceeded the targets for savings in other areas. The effect of “PURCHASES SYSTEM WIDE with a 4/30ths deduction” is harder to estimate because I don’t have good estimates for how much the government spends on such purchases.

  17. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Charles Skeete August 18, 2018 2:36 AM
    In order to eliminate our fiscal deficit we need to reduce government expenditure by about 4% of GDP which is approximately BD$400 million. After adding up all the other ways the government can save money that adds up to less than BD$270 million, leaving us with a BD$130 million target to be achieved through wage/salary cuts. It is emotionally tempting to dream that we can achieve that target by cutting the size of cabinet or eliminating things like the Pan African Commission, but that is simply not going to get the job done.
    I understand the political necessity of giving the public service a 5% increment after they have had none for a decade, but this has made the deficit reduction problem that much more difficult to solve.
    Shrinking the civil service through a hiring freeze and attrition is absolutely necessary, but there will have to be strategic layoffs as well.

  18. David Avatar
    David

    @Peter

    We agree the deficit cannot be eliminated in a deepcut without causing the equivalent of economic (cardiac) arrest? There is the behavioural consideration in the population to consider and manage.

  19. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    One – Create Crown Corporation and vest all potentially commercially viable GoB assets (airport, seaport, Hilton plant, plantations, other lands and so on) in it in exchange for shares.

    Two – Offer domestic GoB debt holders shares in Crown Corporation in exchange for the debt as much as possible and reduce debt service payments.

    Three – It the GoB is concerned about giving up control of GoB assets, the shares of Crown Corporation could include a provision that allows the GoB an option to repurchase the shares within a 20 year period, provided that the shareholders are paid an amount that added to any dividends received would provide an annual return of a minimum of 8%.

  20. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Peter is essentially correct.
    However there are two VERY important caveats missing….

    1 – There is another methodology of closing the fiscal gap – and that is by increased PRODUCTIVITY.
    It is IMPOSSIBLE to have ‘too many employees’ if those employees are worth their keep and more.
    ANYTIME that it makes economic sense to dismiss an employee, that employee is a useless parasite.
    However, since we all now agree that we are dealing with an island of moronic brass bowls, this option is not even discussed.

    2 The second alternative approach would be to take the COMMUNITY-CENTRIC approach to closing the deficit. This way, rather than throw 15000 brass bowls overboard, ALL brass bowls on board the Titanic could agree to throw a percentage of their belongings overboard which is equal to – or greater than, the deficit.
    This way, all brass bowls get to stay alive a little longer – and perhaps, if they continue to develop the community centric approach – for MUCH longer.
    However, we all know that the selfish, albino-centrics that we are, those that have will seek to keep all their belongings …and even to swipe some from those being thrown over board – hastening the sinking….

  21. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @David August 18, 2018 8:06 AM
    You are correct of course that simply throwing thousands of people out of work will throw the economy into a deep depression.

  22. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Peter
    The economy NEEDS to undergo a deep depression.

    The problem we have is that we have been undergoing long, unsustainable, unearned, INFLATION, which has now caught up with us through the inability to access more of OTHER people’s earnings to sustain this inflationary standard that we have pursued.

    The idea that we somehow DESERVE this standard of living… and that there MUST be some way that it can be sustained is completely illogical, naive, …idiotic even…
    One needs only look next door at other islands that (to be frankly honest) are MUCH more deserving of high living standards than is Barbados….based on productivity, ingenuity, creativity, self awareness etc.

    There is a VERY SIMPLE reason why Barbados prospered for so long…. and it has NOTHING to do with anything that we DESERVE.

  23. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Bush Tea August 18, 2018 8:43 AM
    I am just doing the obvious arithmetic, not making policy recommendations. If Barbados intends to remain a strictly capitalist economy these are the calculations we must do.

    If, on the other hand, we aspire to a Barbados which is a community that is more than a capitalist economy, we need to contemplate the types of community-centric strategies that you outline.

    My own counsel would be to orchestrate a national development process which is driven by intensive development of private enterprise on one hand as well as radical redistribution of wealth on the other. My vision of Barbados is as a nation of artists and entrepreneurs bubbling up from a rich substrate of small businesses… all within a social contract that understands that we are each our brothers/sisters keeper. This means that if I aspire to a $20,000/month lifestyle I know that I will simply need to earn $50,000/month.

  24. David Avatar
    David

    @Peter

    Here is what we know, and a view of the presentation by the prime minster is available on parliament’s website. Of interest is that a 5 million dollar allocation will be made available to the prime minister’s head to apply ‘Vaseline’ to those that will be cut. Five million dollars is not a big number and it logically suggest job cuts will not be a big number?

    Barbados PM: There Will Be Casualties in Restructuring, But No Callous Job Cuts
    Caribbean360August 15, 2018

    Prime Minister Mia Mottley in Parliament yesterday.

    BRIDGETOWN, Barbados, Wednesday August 15, 2018 – Barbados’ Prime Minister Mia Mottley yesterday admitted that as her government moves into the second and third phases of its plan to restructure and transform the economy, there could be no getting away from job cuts in the public sector workers.

    But she is promising there won’t be any callous layoffs, and that government will make provisions to cushion the blow for those affected.

    The restructuring will also go beyond job cuts, Mottley said in Parliament yesterday.

    As she laid the Public Service (General) Order 2018—which paved the way for public servants to receive a five per cent wage hike—, Mottley dismissed the suggestion from former Central Bank Governor Dr DeLisle Worrell on job cuts, saying her government would not be going that route.

    “Five thousand or six thousand people are not five thousand or six thousand mangoes on a tree to be picked. They are people who have responsibilities to themselves and their families, and I say to you that whatever else is done, the structure of Government has to follow the purpose of Government,” she said.

    “Will there be some consequences to people? Of course there will be. I’m not going to stand here and fool anybody. But will the consequences be of the magnitude of four and five and six thousand jobs? No, there will not be. Equally, we appreciate that there are some people who may say, ‘look, I have reached 60 years old; the circumstances of my family are such, or the circumstances of my health are such, that I would rather take my leave now and go into voluntary separation on a platform to be negotiated and settled with the Social Partnership and unions in particular…All of that will be presented to the country, so I want to give the people of Barbados the assurance that we got this.”

    Mottley added that those who will be impacted by the cuts will be assisted by government.

    In fact, she said she would take special interest in those people. A special unit is to be set up in her office – “because I’m not asking anybody to take responsibility for caring” – to work with those “victims of restructuring”.

    Mottley said consideration would be given to using a series of measures, including access to government land for farming and access to licences, to help cushion the impact.

    She added that “affirmative action” on government procurement may also be used in this effort.

    The Prime Minister said that within two weeks, her government will be speaking to the people of Barbados about “what we believe to be the road map for phase 2 and phase 3 under the Barbados Economic Recovery and Transformation Programme”.

    The restructuring will also include bringing order to millions of dollars in transfers to public entities.

    Suggesting that there would be an overhaul of debt-ridden state agencies, Prime Minister Mottley said it will not be business as usual at statutory corporations.

    She said the government could no longer afford the drain on the public purse, and disclosed that state enterprises were now required to present to the Ministry of Finance their accounts for analysis within five days of the previous month.

    “There are a few who believe that a habit is not to be developed of this practice and that having done it two months in a row that they should not do it a third. It shall not happen under this Government. There will be discipline on the part of all those who will be entrusted with the funds of the taxpayers to manage in this country,” she said.

    “There will be a meeting next week Tuesday with all of the finance officers of Government, all of the Permanent Secretaries, all of the chairmen, general managers and finance officers of statutory corporations because regrettably the practice of how we manage and handle our affairs, down to our reporting of banking, has fallen into shambles and it therefore means that the Accountant General is not in a position to give the kind of information we need in order to make the kind of decisions that we need to make in a timely manner,” Mottley, who is also Minister of Finance, added.

    Read more: http://www.caribbean360.com/news/barbados-pm-there-will-be-casualties-in-restructuring-but-no-callous-job-cuts#ixzz5OXDpqVbN

  25. T.Inniss Avatar
    T.Inniss

    Caswell

    On the article by David/BU above where the Public Service (General) Order 2018 was laid in the senate this week,I read in the Bdos Today newspaper that the Public Service (general) order 2016 was revoked -hence your argument (bdos today seem to be saying) that the Govt is in breach of the 2016 order does not hold.

    Was just curious as to your take on that.

    Also anything in that 2018 Public Service Order that we should pay particular attention to?

  26. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Bush Tea August 18, 2018 8:56 AM
    I understand that to have Barbados endure a deep depression might fit well into your sackcloth and ashes pattern for individual moral development, but I consider it to be deeply unjust to our children and grandchildren. It is my own generation by and large who have squandered opportunity for building a sustainable and just Barbados, so while you may consider it appropriate to visit retribution for the sins of the fathers upon subsequent generations, I do not buy into that philosophy.

  27. Wily Coyote Avatar
    Wily Coyote

    @ peterlawrencethompson August 17, 2018 10:00 PM

    “I’ve used the most reliable numbers I can find,”

    Therein lies one of Barbados’s MAJOR ISSUES, unavailable and reliable statistics. How can you Guess how much money you have in your pocket if you can’t count. At the moment as I told David a few weeks ago, new government number one priority was to do a forensic audit of the countries finances by an OUTSIDE AGENCY so one can determine to some degree of accuracy the present and forecast situation. Only then can you start to develop a plan for first stabilization and then future development hopefully leading to growth.

    This concept appears not to be in the BLP GOB AGENDA. The result being the IMF are going to make these determinations and Barbadians are going to have to live with the consequences. GOB will have no comeback to IMF suggestions as they have no definitive statistics to back their “OPTIMISTIC” position.

    PT tried to make a realistic financial assessment however his evaluations are NOT RELIABLE because he’s replying on unreliable and unavailable GOB statistics.

    GARBAGE IN GARBAGE OUT.

  28. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ PLT
    Unfortunately, despite your ability to see the glaring systemic weaknesses of the physical life that we can sense, you still do not get the REAL fundamental SPIRITUAL concept – of which the physical experience is but a relatively minor component.

    If we use your logic, it would be quite acceptable for an individual to do a lotta shiite during his lifetime and accumulate immense wealth (say by enslaving and dehumanising everyone who happened not to possess the weapons available to himself) and to then die with the knowledge that his children and grand children can enjoy generations of advantage, privilege and comfort at the expense of the decedents of those that he had subjugated.

    Indeed, by your logic, this could be seen as a selfless, heroic act…

    However…
    If we did shiite for the past 40 years by being unproductive, self-engrossed, albino-centric and spiteful then you can REST ASSURED that the price will be paid for GENERATIONS TO COME.

    BTW … there is NO QUESTION about the coming ‘deflation’, the ONLY question is if we will self-impose in a controlled way – or if it will be externally imposed at the whim of outsiders….our debt holders.
    …and you had better prepare your children and grands for the coming reality…

  29. David Avatar
    David

    @Peter

    To add to Bush Tea’s comment without fully subscribing to all therein (LOL) the BU intelligentsia has been a fairly accurate barometer in the last decade of forecasting current state.

  30. Mariposa Avatar
    Mariposa

    IF MIA CARES
    SHE WOULD STOP PUMPING SHIT IN THE OCEAN

    IF MIA CARES SHE WOULD SPEAK TO THE CLICO POLICY INSURERS ON THE RECENT NEWS THAT THESE INSURERS WHO WERE RECEIVIMG COMPENSATION WOULD NOT BE RECEVING ANY MORE BECAUSE OF BARBADOS DEFAULT

  31. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    Senator we could also shut down the senate and buy a rubber stamp with “Approved” for the bills.

    https://cbc.bb/index.php/news/item/5766-senator-wants-higher-allowance

  32. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Bush Tea August 18, 2018 10:07 AM
    Actually, if we use my logic, not only would retribution for the sins of the fathers not be visited upon subsequent generations, but neither would the wealth they accumulated whether ill gotten or not. When we allow people to pass all their wealth on to their children we accentuate and perpetuate class divisions within society. Sweden used to have an inheritance tax of 65% which went a long way to pay for their enviable community centric social system; sadly they abandoned it under right wing neoliberal pressure in 2004. Imagine the social benefit if out of COW’s $500 million estate his children got to divide $200 million but the other $300 million wend to community development.

  33. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Peter
    …and how would you divide Bushie’s wealth – which came from totally selfless community centric operations and which has been characterised by community service and contributions that are even more valuable than the actual wealth accumulated (all fictional examples of course…)
    Tax it again?

    Why then would Bushie’s son follow in the old man’s community centric footsteps?
    It is more complex than inheritance taxes…

    What a man sows, he (and his family) will also reap. Those that sow selfish spite and vindictiveness CANNOT reap otherwise just because of some shiite tax….

    This is of course the reparations argument … but it is flawed because the philosophy is over-ridden by a HIGHER law.
    Time is of no consequence to BBE – if ensuing generations fail to learn the lessons from their wicked fore parents and TAKE CORRECTIVE actions, then THEY even more, are guilty of the original crimes… AND WILL PAY accordingly.

    This is why PROACTIVE ‘sack cloth and ashes’ trumps ‘brimstone and fire’….. EVERY TIME….
    But there is NO option but to pay the price …only to voluntarily pay up …or to be sentenced….

    Those that sowed …shall also reap in kind….. It cannot be compensated with inheritance taxes.

  34. Bernard Codrington Avatar
    Bernard Codrington

    @ PLT

    Welcome to the club of progressive wealth and income taxation. Or were you already there?

    Barbadians were nurtured in a Big Government System of governance and do not seem to appreciate that GoB services must be paid for by taxes.
    This was so even before adult suffrage. I think we need to do some serious research before we jump on bandwagons such as “public sector too large”. Large relevant to what?

    We can always cut the public sector and pay privately for roads,education, health ,police etc.
    Wuh Loss.

  35. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Bernard
    Nobody said that the public sector is ‘too large’.

    The problem is that the wages bill is too large – given the INCOME generated to pay that bill.
    If you can divide available resources between (even a larger) public service all would be well…

    But when you BORROW money to pay people who are NOT productive…. Wuh loss…

  36. Charles Skeete Avatar
    Charles Skeete

    Bushie while you might not have said so it has become fashionable for some time now as stated by Bernard to say the public service too large or bloated; and as clumsy and simplistic as this might sound
    The in excess of 92.000.bds purportedly owed to vat by Mr Carrington could pay the wages of at least six NCC workers for a year. I maintain the collection of outstanding debts to Government while not the only answer would be a start in replenishing the coffers of the Treasury

  37. Mariposa Avatar
    Mariposa

    Charles Skeete in mentioning vat thieves and defaulters honourable mention can also go to Mia Father where monies due to govt was tranfered to him in the name of tax waivers
    Sir i am also taking note of your pain staking expedition to save the public workers from the decapitation of this govt
    Sorry that you miss the memo before you placed your vote in a moment of pleasure
    Now it is all but laughable to see you asking the govt whom you voted( for ) a reprieve
    Sir let me say that your hands are as much responsible for the fate of the public servants given you appetite for a longing for better change which you eagerly demonstrated on election

  38. sirfuzzy (i was a sheep some years ago; not a sheep anymore) Avatar
    sirfuzzy (i was a sheep some years ago; not a sheep anymore)

    The problem is that the wages bill is too large – given the INCOME generated to pay that bill.
    If you can divide available resources between (even a larger) public service all would be well…

    But when you BORROW money to pay people who are NOT productive…. Wuh loss…

    @ Bushtea,

    May we go to parliament change the constitution and allow the govt to cut salries again? Just a wild thought?

  39. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Charles Skeete
    Unfortunately the matter is more complicated than just collecting VAT to pay those workers.

    Consider a situation where there is a family of – say 100 persons.
    5 are working ‘outside jobs’ and bringing cash into the household of 1000 each per month. or 5000 per month.
    This buys all the externally needed family supplies.

    Another 20 members work around the family home -keeping things clean, cooking, looking after children etc – and consume their share of family supplies.
    a next 50 are children who are being looked after via food, education, entertainment etc and the other 25 either don’t or can’t work.

    The limit to which the family can demand high quality services and goods is determined by the CASH being generated by the ‘outside’ jobs.
    It matters only a little bit how many insiders you ’employ’ and provide resources to…
    Bushie would employ all – since you will probably feed and look after them all anyway – as family,
    BUT THE STANDARD of living is largely determined by the CASH being brought in by the five ‘FOREX’ workers.

    Unless some of those inside family members can PRODUCE quality goods for use by the family – or for sale to outsiders to create more cash, then the family standard of living is directly proportional to the forex generated.

    Collecting internal debts owed by the babysitters and the gardeners is honestly neither here or there – except with regard to the internal relations of the family. LOL – you may just save a stabbing or shooting…

  40. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Sirfuzzy

    How about going to parliament and change the constitution so that government is not ALLOWED to spend money that it does not have….
    That way, they would be forced to take REALISTIC and sustainable steps to safeguard the future of our children.

    If they want to spend more… FIRST – find a way to PRODUCE more…

  41. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    Bush Tea August 18, 2018 1:09 PM /”…Bushie would employ all – since you will probably feed and look after them all anyway – as family, /BUT THE STANDARD of living is largely determined by the CASH being brought in by the five ‘FOREX’ workers…”

    Thus the need to cut compensation. Like anything else, there was no strategic action, so the better short term reaction is necessary.

  42. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    Bush Tea August 18, 2018 11:34 AM
    You answered your own question of course:
    “Why then would Bushie’s son follow in the old man’s community centric footsteps?”
    BECAUSE
    “… totally selfless community centric operations […] characterised by community service and contributions […] are even more valuable than the actual wealth accumulated…”

    He knows all this because you raised him right.

  43. sirfuzzy (i was a sheep some years ago; not a sheep anymore) Avatar
    sirfuzzy (i was a sheep some years ago; not a sheep anymore)

    @ Bush Tea August 18, 2018 1:12 PM

    Therefore the govt could not run a defecit? I guess you are running afoul of much economic models and thinking.

    I too think we need to examine out economic models as they may not be structured in a way that best suits our purpose.

  44. sirfuzzy (i was a sheep some years ago; not a sheep anymore) Avatar
    sirfuzzy (i was a sheep some years ago; not a sheep anymore)

    I maybe way of base on this; but if i am 45 years old and was working in a govt job or an SOE with just about 15-20 years before retirement(voluntary or forced) with loans loans to repay etc; maybe children to educate or more likely feed; not too interested in a criminal life, i would not be too opposed to a 8% wage cut and five year wage freeze; with the promise of secured employment. With usually conditions of service etc,

    I know i can re-prioritise the reduced income;(92%) i will tighteningn my belt as needed; however it really hard to re-prioritise with (zero %) income.

    There is also the high probability that both or all the persons working in a house/home may be severed. How many homes are supported by outside bread winner due to their previous relationships etc. It cannot be business as usual but this will be a hard blow to all involved when the cuts do finally come.

  45. David Avatar
    David

    A reasonable view, the challenge is the ‘noise’ fueled by competing agendas in the space.

  46. Bernard Codrington Avatar
    Bernard Codrington

    Lay offs in the public sector take income out of circulation and cause lay offs in the private sector. Lay offs reduce direct taxes and indirect taxes.Reduced expenditure reduces expenditure based taxes. Income is a circular flow. My expenditure is your income.

    Governments temporary increase employment in order to absorb private sector lay offs.
    What happens when the private sector does not step up to the plate?

    Just thinking aloud.

  47. David Avatar
    David

    @Bernard

    The theory is correct. The unknown variable is to what extent will the private sector create opportunities facilitated by the public sector. Of course this will not happen in a vacuum. There is no playbook. We have data to feed models locally and case studies from orher countries. All that is missing is leadership.

  48. Tron Avatar
    Tron

    The reduction of the public sector won´t dramatically affect the whole system if the servants have just to retire a bit earlier than normal and if no new servants are hired to replace the outgoings. The need to actively fire servants will be limited.

    Emigration to countries with a better prospect like Jamaica or Guyana will do the rest.

    For your relief: All formerly socialist countries had to transform. Look at Russia, China and Eastern Europe. Some better, some not. Barbados is also a socialist society with no true democracy and ruled by oligarchs, predominance of the public sector, very restricted private sector, capital controls and lack of forex. So Barbados and Venezuela are next.

  49. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    @ Brother in Arms Bush Tea

    You said and I quote “…If they want to spend more… FIRST – find a way to PRODUCE more…”

    Oft, as you have used the anecdote about rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic, de ole man has been fascinated by that imagery and its perfect accord with our predicament

    We have a birthday cake of a finite size for which the ingredients (1) are imported and (2) are increasing in costs annually and (3) the invitees to the party are increasing every time we hold the party which in this matter IS RVERY DAY.

    Incredulously we figure that by rearranging the order in which we share out the cake IS GOING TO INCREASE THE CAKE!!!

    And that cycle repeats itself with every change in our government.

    WE LACK THOUGHT LEADERS WHO NOT ONLY CAN PROPERLY APPORTION THE CAKE BUT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO INDIGENOUSLY SOURCE OTHER INGREDIENTS

    Said resources not only can feed the people coming to eat at the party but employ them to make more cakes WHICH WE CAN SELL TO OTHER PARTIES EXTERNALLY!!!

    It is not that we have lacked thought leaders during all the cake baking but because the brass bowl leaders who we have assigned to bake the cake HAVE EITHER BEEN INCAPABLE OF SEEING WHAT THESE PEOPLE DO OR, and this is normally the situation, THEY WANT TO TEIF THE PRODUCTS OF THESE OTHER PEOPLE WHO CAN MAKE THE ADDITIONAL CAKES.

    I see wunna are experts on sharing out the 1 cake but not a feller ent mentioning additional cakes here because “there be dragons in those thar dens…!!!”

  50. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    @the Honourable Blogmaster your assistance please with an item for all the learnéd scholars here.

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