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Accounting firm for CL Financial in the region.

The split decision handed down recently by the Supreme Court of Canada (Deloitte & Touche v. Livent Inc. (Receiver of)  ) held the accounting house- albeit conditionally- responsible to extend a duty of care to clients.

By negligently conducting the audit, and impairing Livent’s shareholders’ ability to oversee management, Deloitte exposed Livent to reasonably foreseeable risks, including losses that would have been avoided with a proper audit…. Deloitte owed Livent a duty of care, which it breached.

The landmark ruling which started in 1998 will now exert a focus on accounting firms everywhere to be held liability for negligence.

The decision brings into sharp focus the ‘free pass’ accounting firms in Barbados and the region have been given in the CL Financial and CLICO debacle as one glaring example. Clearly the confidence of the public in financial institutions is significantly stoked by the work oversight agencies are expected to deliver. They should represent a solid  line of defense and have a fiduciary responsibility to protect the interest of the public. It s amazing given the revelations coming out of the Colman Commission of Enquiry in Trinidad and Deloitte Forensic Report into local operations of CLICO not a single management letter issued by the accounting firm of CLICO noted any serious breach in the financial affairs that we are aware.

Who will bell the cat?

Related link: – Supreme Court says Livent auditors liable but sets conditions

 


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121 responses to “Accounting Firm Held Liable for Negligence”


  1. Thanks for the links NortherObserver.

  2. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    And exactly what role is the FSC playing in monitoring, watchdoging, investigating and bringing to justice financial institutions in Barbados….Alleyne can complain as much as he wants but he knows he has been useless and negligent in doing his job, he knows he is working with outdated laws and neither he nor the equally useless attorney general would act to do the right thing so that insurance companies and ALL financial instutions that choose to engage in criminal activities against the people can be held accountable..

    They will not get a pass on this one, obviously barbadostoday has dug in and is holding their feet to the fire…….when ya own dog bites ya…..lol

    Oh how I have waited for this day.

    https://www.barbadostoday.bb/2017/12/21/under-scrutiny-2/

    “The FSC Barbados is deemed to be the group supervisor for Sagicor, but has not developed or implemented a group-wide supervisory framework, and lacks the resources to undertake effective supervision of the group. The FSC Barbados is presumed to be the agency responsible for group-wide supervision of Sagicor by other regulators in the region due to the group’s historical antecedents, and because the operational headquarters for Sagicor is located in Barbados.

    However, the FSC’s current human and IT resources for insurance supervision are inadequate to effectively undertake the task of consolidated supervision of a large, and complex financial conglomerate such as Sagicor. Further, the Insurance Act does not include a provision for consolidated supervision.

    The financial stability of the region needs to be safeguarded by implementing adequate supervision applicable to a regional systemically important institution (Regional -SIFI). Much work has been done to enhance the supervision of SIFIs by the FSB and IAIS that should be applicable to Sagicor. The urgency to develop and implement an appropriate supervisory framework for this R-SIFI is highlighted in this report.”

  3. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    Now if we can only get the Plaintiff’s attorneys speaking out just as candidly about the insurance companies and their 4th rate lawyers who have blighted the supreme court and stopped cases, particularly personal injury ones, from moving forward or closing, just as this attorney is speaking about Sagicor….we will be getting somewhere.

    Let’s hope this is not one of the attorneys and his law firm like Leslie Haynes, who also sat on the board of directors at CLICO, who also had a hand in its collapse on the island, who is now being sued and is currently the attorney for CGI Insurance…, saying this…..because there are so many conflicts of interest on the island in every financial institution, in every government department, in every law firm, that nothing can go right, be changed or successfully upgraded at FSC, at the supreme court or anywhere else, unless and until all these conflicts of interest practitioners and their umbilical cords are completely and finally severed from every institution on the island.

    https://www.barbadostoday.bb/2017/12/21/much-can-go-wrong-with-sagicor-lawyer-says/

    “Much can go wrong with Sagicor, lawyer says
    Added by Marlon Madden on December 21, 2017.
    Saved under Business, Local News
    1Save
    An attorney-at-law who was connected to the commission of inquiry into the failed CL Financial and its affiliated companies has said that the complexity and structure of financial services giant, the Sagicor Group, present “so much possibilities which can go wrong”.

    Similar concerns were raised by the International Monetary Fund (IMF)in a recent explosive report on supervision of the Sagicor conglomerate by the Financial Services Commission (FSC).

    The IMF warned in the report that because the group is large and complex, “it is quite possible that emerging risks or potential vulnerabilities exist or have not been detected”.

    The report exposed a number of shortcomings at the FSC and raised questions about its ability to regulate the Sagicor Group, while suggesting that “failure or near failure” of the company could be worse than the CLICO collapse.”

  4. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    And just to give Alleyne and FSC a final kick in his ass for neglecting his fiduciary duties to the poor and vulnerable people on the island……..the victims of unscrupulous, tiefing, criminal insurance companies. ……

    …this one is ultra Karmic in nature.

    https://www.barbadostoday.bb/2017/12/22/bteditorial-dont-shoot-the-messenger-sir-frank/

    Lol, haha haha, lol….that is for ignoring the plight of injured people on the island….your own people.

    “It is not easy being a journalist, especially in this neck of the woods.

    On the one hand you are often criticized for not being investigative enough, but the moment you expose some ‘guarded truth’ you are immediately branded as the worst form of human being ever known to mankind – irresponsible, reckless, sensational and bent on destroying Barbados.

    This was precisely the treatment meted out to Barbados TODAY this week after we published details of the International Monetary Fund’s confidential review of the Financial Services Commission (FSC) and its supervision of insurance giant Sagicor.

    While careful not to challenge the existence of the said IMF report, which interestingly enough was invited by the FSC to conduct the investigation, the chairman of the regulatory authority, Sir Frank Alleyne, in a hastily arranged news conference, sought to publicly discredit this newspaper and its leadership over its decision to publish the naked truth about what the IMF has deemed to be nothing short of lax regulatory controls.

    In fact, after reading the IMF’s 16-page report, if anyone’s reputation should be called into question it is Sir Frank’s for his oversight – or lack thereof – of this country’s financial system. And the IMF report, which has been reproduced in full on Pages 10 to 13 of today’s newspaper, has said as much.”

  5. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    And knowing of CGIs aversion to reinsurance which mitigates risks to the vulnerable, I believe this is what caused the whole exposure of FSC, Alleyne and everyone by Harris, who has been enabling him for decades….with the right laws in place, reinsurance will become mandatory across the Caribbean, greedy, shady Harris would not want that.

    https://www.barbadostoday.bb/2017/12/21/move-on-6/

    “Move on
    Sagicor plans to set up reinsurance operation in bermuda, IMF report says

    Added by Marlon Madden on December 21, 2017.
    Saved under Business, Local News
    1Save
    Financial services giant Sagicor, which last year moved its holding company to Bermuda after more than 170 years here, is preparing to establish a firmer footing in the British overseas territory located in the North Atlantic, according to a recent International Monetary Fund (IMF) report.

    The draft report on an October 9-13 mission here at the invitation of the Financial Services Commission (FSC) states that as a next step to the relocation of the holding company, Sagicor plans to establish a reinsurer in Bermuda to be supervised by regulators in that British territory.

    “During the mission team’s discussion with the senior management team at Sagicor, we were advised of plans to establish a reinsurance operation in Bermuda, and of the company’s request to the Bermuda Monetary Authority (BMA) to be the agency responsible for group-wide supervision,” stated the draft report by the three-member IMF team of Ralph C Lewars, Lawrie Savage and Rodolfo Wehrhahn.”

  6. Caswell Franklyn Avatar

    Prior to the coming into force of the Financial Services Commission Act, the Supervisor of Insurance was liable for negligently performing his duties. Now, the FSC can perform as poorly as it likes with no repercussions since the new act requires a claimant to show bad faith.

    These brutes were so determined to protect the clowns that they install to regulate financial services that even though that provision was already in the FSC Act, they also amended the Co-operative Societies Act to insert a similar provision.

    As with insurance, the FSC is equally incompetent or more incompetent when it comes to regulating credit union. Don’t be surprised if the next big financial collapse is Public Workers’ Credit Union and Capita. The FSC has allowed Public Workers to get away with murder.


  7. @Caswell

    Are we reading you to say that Jeff should jump ship?

  8. Caswell Franklyn Avatar

    David

    You damn right. In my dealings with the staff of the FSC, I have encountered a level of incompetence that is frightening and unprecedented. As a result, they issue threats to frighten credit unions into complying with their unlawful decisions.

    Sent from my iPad


  9. The whole business of auditing needs a big shakeup.

    Auditors are mostly a waste of time and money – in that they tend to cover up for management; report any ‘findings’ to the very same damn people who are doing shiite; …and then help them to cover the jobby with dirt.

    The auditors then have the gall to stand in front of the shareholders and report that ‘from their audit, the books show that all is well’ …. when they damn well KNOW – better than everyone else (besides the damn thieves) that all is NOT well.

    If the CLICO auditors did not know that the Leper et al were stealing policyholders funds FOR YEARS …. then they are even more stupid that Stinkliar and Froon have shown themselves to be..
    If the BAICO auditors were clueless about the mismanagement of that company, then they had be be a pack of jackasses….
    Even minor fraud – with the misuse of corporate assets, credit cards, travel etc HAVE to be obvious in any meaningful audit…. YET nothing is EVER said in their reports.
    These people are useless leeches, whose ONLY concern is to have the WUK again next year.

    They SHOULD be held CRIMINALLY liable for any reasonable “appearance of fraud” that they fail to draw to the attention of shareholders during their audit.
    It should then be the DUTY of the directors to clarify the matter – and the Shareholders to have the responsibility to reappoint the auditors.

    BUT… as with most other such matters, the SYSTEM is designed to facilitate the crooked politicians and Board-room Thieves.


  10. Financial services giant Sagicor, which last year moved its holding company to Bermuda…….
    the British overseas territory located in the North Atlantic

    Bermuda is not in the North Atlantic. It is this low level form of semi-literacy that pervades Barbados. Don’t they teach geography in Barbados anymore?
    And Sagicor is not that old. How can this nonsense get through from reporter, to sub-editor, to assistant editor to editor without anyone raising any concerns?


  11. Where is Bermuda located Hal?

  12. Caswell Franklyn Avatar

    Bushie

    Bermuda is a small 21 square mile island so it was probably easy for Hal to move it to Europe or even to Russia.

    Sent from my iPad


  13. Bermuda is always confused with Barbuda and the Bahamas 😂.

  14. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    Lol…

    “Bermuda is a 21 square mile island located on the North Atlantic and off the east coast of North America. It is actually a string of 138 islands and tiny islets, out of which some 20 are inhabited and seven are joined by bridges and causeways to the main island.”


  15. Bushie
    And the actuaries at the SG are the same as auditors generally.

    You are more right than you know.


  16. The truth is whether local, regional or international the stakeholders in the system work usually to protect the ‘system’ – this Canadian ruling will shakeup things a bit. In other words it is not just a Barbados curse as some are making out.


  17. Bush Tea is right on the money in describing the functions or lack thereof of these self aggrandizing scaliwags.


  18. jean December 22, 2017 at 9:06 AM #

    “Bush Tea is right on the money in describing the functions or lack thereof of these self aggrandizing scaliwags.”

    @ jean

    I agree “Bush Tea is right on the money” in certain aspects of his contribution……… however, they are things he mentioned that are misleading and perhaps based on his personal opinion and not fact.

    But I know his expression for accountants and economists is one of disdain……….. so I gine keep a low profile on this one.


  19. @Bush Tea

    Money makes the world go around, no different in this instant. Do you know how much fees are earned from these large companies to pay the partners/audit seniors?


  20. Mr Blogmaster, what exactly has the Canadian court said about this audit firm that gives you such hope that the ruling will shake things up!!

    You surely recall that there was a verb ‘Enron’ed’…And you certainly know the proper noun from which it derived….And you definitely must remember that a more momentous ruling which convicted the then big five audit/accounting player Arthur Andersen for their Enron performance.

    Andersen was completely dissolved (welll effectively do) because of their legal problems. Do you need any more shaking than that!

    Yet since then there were even bigger financial explosions overseen by alllegdly poor audit review.

    So let’s not hold our breath.


  21. @Dee Word

    We have to live with the mindset that there is hope?

    This is a landmark case isn’t it? It sets a precedent. Hopefully others will take up the challenge.


  22. David December 22, 2017 at 8:36 AM #
    Bermuda is always confused with Barbuda and the Bahamas 😂.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I see Barbuda and the Bahamas are quite different from Bermuda …. they are independent!!

    Bermuda belongs to the United Kingdom.

    Bermuda votes with the UK at the UN!!

    Barbuda and the Bahamas preferred to abstain in the recent UN vote re the US embassy in Jerusalem.

    Likewise Trinidad and Tobago and Jamaica, both abstained.

    St. Kitts/Nevis and Saint Lucia chose to give the vote a complete miss!!!

    Barbados voted with ole Ralph in St. Vincent and the “Mother Country”!!

    What a complete set of idiots we have in charge!!

    Don’t have a clue about our history!!


  23. Even Haiti like they got some sense at the top!! Abstained.

    … and many African countries!!!!

    For crying out aloud, the vote is non binding …. give it a pass if you don’t know your history and if you do, vote against it!!


  24. Even Mexico abstained!!!!!!

    What jackasses we got bout here!!

  25. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    john…you nasty racists in Barbados with your sick obsession of trying to keep the majority population defenseless, with no voice and unable to form their own opinions will fail…..yall are the evil minions of the larger more uneducated demons who walk in darkness on the earth…

    You will never win, never prevail against the power of the earth.,,, get it through your evil skull.

  26. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    Nearly 128 countries voted against evil, againt trump and israelI evil…….as they should, get over it and move on, you blighted, cursed demons.


  27. LOL…told ya BT would be all over this.


  28. Golden moment….”Where is Bermuda located Hal?”. HA should stick to regulation, as now geography, nor financial deposits are a strong suit.

  29. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    Northern….dont blink…lol

    And as usual your are a disgusting LIAR John….most African countries voted against trump and israeli evil…

    “Togo only African nation to back Trump on Jerusalem vote despite A.U. stance
    Abdur Rahman Alfa Shaban 15 hours ago
    TOGO
    Togo on Thursday voted with the United States in Washington’s resolution to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

    But at the end of the day, it was Togo, the United States and seven others against the motion whiles 128 other countries voted in favour of the motion rejecting the U.S. move.

    Out of the 35 countries that chose to abstain, there were a number of African countries including Rwanda, Cameroon, Equatorial Guinea, Benin, Malawi, South Sudan and Uganda.

    Togo’s position comes as a surprise to many political watchers given that the African Union had put out a position that others like Ethiopia (a current member of the Security Council) had openly said they were backing.

    The United States ahead of the vote had issued a threat to countries that it was going to take note of all those who voted against their move. Botswana is the only African country so far to have officially responded calling the U.S. bluff.

    Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israeli capital
    On December 6, 2017; Trump officially announced that the U.S. formally recognised the contested city of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and that plans were afoot for their embassy be moved.

    World leaders have since slammed the move calling it a setback for peace efforts between Israel and Palestine and a security risk to the larger Middle East region. The European Union, the United Nations and African Union have all expressed worry over Trump’s move.

    The move has provoked series of anti-American protests across the Muslim world. Deadly clashes have erupted between Israelis and Palestinians in Gaza. Somalia, Djibouti, Egypt and other African countries have expressed their condemnation.

    What has the A.U. Chief said about U.S. position on Jerusalem
    “The Chairperson of the African Union Commission, Moussa Faki Mahamat, notes with deep concern the decision of the United States Government, announced today, to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel.

    “He regrets this decision, which will only increase tensions in the region and beyond and further complicate the search for a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    “The Chairperson of the Commission reiterates the solidarity of the African Union with the Palestinian people and its support to their legitimate quest for an independent and sovereign State with East Jerusalem as its capital.

    “In this context, he calls for renewed international efforts to find a just and lasting solution to the conflict, based on the existence of two States, Israel and Palestine, living side-by-side in peace and security, within the framework of relevant African Union and United Nations pronouncements.”

    Sha


  30. RE You will never win, never prevail against the power of the earth.,
    WHO WANTS OR NEEDS TO WIN OR PREVAIL against the power of the earth? THERE IS A HIGHER POWER THAT WILL ULTIMATELY PREVAIL

    RE john…you nasty racists in Barbados with your sick obsession of trying to keep the majority population defenseless, with no voice and unable to form their own opinions will fail…..yall are the evil minions of the larger more uneducated demons who walk in darkness on the earth…

    ARE YOU SAYING THAT BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH JOHN HE IS RACIST?
    WHEN BARBADOS VOTED AT THE UN WAS IT AIRING MY VOICE? OR MY OPINION?
    JOHN HAS FORMED HIS OWN OPINION AND RAISED HIS VOICE AND ON BU HE IS A PARIAH…AN OUTCAST. YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF

    CAN YOU DEFINE OR IDENTIFY WHO ARE ” the evil minions of the larger more uneducated demons who walk in darkness on the earth…” AND STATE HOW THEY EARNED THIS CLASSIFICATION.


  31. RE We have to live with the mindset that there is hope?

    MOST CERTAINLY THERE IS HOPE
    IT IS FOUND IN HEBREWS 6: 17-20

    Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

    That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

    Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

    Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


  32. According to the below link:

    https://www.bermuda-attractions.com/bermuda2_0000d4.htm

    “Bermuda is a 21 square mile island LOCATED on the NORTH ATLANTIC and OFF the EAST COAST of North America. It is actually a string of 138 islands and tiny islets, out of which some 20 are inhabited and seven are joined by bridges and causeways to the main island.”


  33. Let’s see what African countries did not vote against the evil!!

    Benin …. abstained, many of our ancestors came from here.

    Cameroon …… abstained

    Central African Republic …. didn’t even vote!!

    Equatorial Guinea …. Abstained …. lots of ancestral links to Barbados plus of course Guinea Birds, Guinea Grass and Guinea Plantation

    Lesotho … abstained

    Malawi …. abstained

    Rwanda … abstained

    South Sudan …. abstained

    Togo … Voted against the resolution


  34. @Northern
    HA should stick to regulation, as now geography, nor financial deposits are a strong suit
    ++++++++
    Where is your Xmas cheer? If financial information is not Hal’s bailiwick what is a financial columnist to do?

    BTW Bermuda is in the Bermuda Triangle 😊


  35. Sargeant December 22, 2017 at 11:18 AM #

    HA should stick to regulation, as now geography, nor financial deposits are a strong suit

    Barbados (/bɑːrˈbeɪdɒs/ ( listen) or /bɑːrˈbeɪdoʊs/) is an island country in the Lesser Antilles, in the Caribbean region of North America……..It is situated in the western area of the North Atlantic

    Nice to see Barbados is in the North Atlantic.

    Iceland (/ˈaɪslənd/ ( listen); Icelandic: Ísland pronounced [ˈistlant])[7] is a Nordic island country of Europe located in the North Atlantic Ocean….

  36. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    sir John Liealot…the African Continent alone has 50 COUNTRIES.

  37. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    Jeez…do the asses know how far the North Atlantic stretches….from one corner of the earth to the other…..people used to walk all across the damn globe until water swallowed it up…talk about not knowing history.

  38. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    John Liealot does have a nice ring to it, so there we go.


  39. ” not just a Barbados curse ”

    Canada is not Utopia.

    “Some federal employees have been told to prepare for a major post-Christmas letdown: paycheques that are wildly incorrect and potentially void of any funds whatsoever.”

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/phoenix-pay-problems-december-27-1.4461500


  40. Oh Canada !

    My fellow CanBajans. Make sure you get back your $25. lol

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/loblaw-card-redeem-bread-price-fixing-1.4459627


  41. @Hal, you can be a very funny (or is that funky) guy at times. I suspect that Greenidge or any of your other possible St Giles’ masters would turn in their graves with your weird attempt to define ‘North’.

    As far as we all know ANYTHING above the 0 deg meridian of the equator is NORTH (oh dear, let’s not debate ‘above’ 🙂 ).

    So both Iceland and Bermuda AND Barbados are in the North Atlantic.

    OK, so maybe you are funny as in you being strangely amusing. LOL


  42. de pedantic Dribbler December 22, 2017 at 12:52 PM #

    Mr Greenidge both taught me and I attended his private lessons. Definitions can mean what we ant them to mean. Jut get your atlas out and look at a map of Africa and one of Europe. Which appears to be bigger?

  43. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    And fir the idiots who are dummier than trump, because that is the only way they would follow someone that stupid…this is what you would het for kissing US ass and supporting them….a big fat nothing.

    John Liesalot will fit in well.

    “The US doesn’t give out much aid, and therefore can’t hold it over the heads of many other countries. The aid it does give out is for establishing US influence,” Cole wrote on his blog, Informed Comment, ahead of Thursday’s vote.

    Cole said punishing countries like Egypt, which voted in favour of the General Assembly draft resolution and sponsored an earlier motion at the UN Security Council to condemn the US’ Jerusalem decision, “would likely simply diminish US standing at the UN and with the countries it woos by charity”.

    It would also harm US companies since a large amount of US aid comes in the forms of American-made military equipment, Cole wrote.

    “The Egyptian government has more military helicopters than it knows what to do with, and they’re just stacked in warehouses. So the money actually went to US arms manufacturers, and Egypt gets a fairly useless shiny military toy. Trump would be hurting US corporations more than Egypt if he cut it off.”

    Without US influence in the form of foreign aid, countries like China and Russia might step in, he added.

    “I very much doubt anyone will pay attention to Trump’s threats.”



  44. @Hal, LOL. That’s another very funny moment @12:55 PM.

    Pray tell what in world (pun fully intended) does the size of Africa or Europe have to do with the determination of ‘NORTH’ on the compass grid!

    Definitions should be like FACTS in any discourse: crystal clear, unequivocal and indisputable.

    But surely, opinions can always be what WE want them to be!

    The latter is a FACT on which we can unequivocally agree. 🙂

    @David, granted that the Arthur Andersen Enron conviction per their faulty audit management was overturned on appeal, whereas this case (which originates from the same time period of Enron) has been upheld on final appeal; so yes it can be seen as a landmark case.

    Point taken.


  45. Hants December 22, 2017 at 11:57 AM #
    ” not just a Barbados curse ”
    Canada is not Utopia.
    “Some federal employees have been told to prepare for a major post-Christmas letdown: paycheques that are wildly incorrect and potentially void of any funds whatsoever.”
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/phoenix-pay-problems-december-27-1.4461500
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Meanwhile, across the border …

    http://fortune.com/2017/12/20/gop-tax-bill-att-boeing/


  46. Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service December 22, 2017 at 11:52 AM #
    sir John Liealot…the African Continent alone has 50 COUNTRIES.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    You absolutely sure about that or you misleading us?

    If so that would make Africa identical to Europe!!

    How many states in the US?


  47. de pedantic Dribbler December 22, 2017 at 1:22 PM #

    It is about challenging received wisdoms, the accuracy of maps and geo-political demarcation lines. We must challenge everything; ask why is it so; why is a tropical island like Barbados in the same geographical zone as Iceland? Not even fish swim in the same waters.
    It is like pretending that the US and Canada are North America (civilised), but from Mexico to Tierra del Fuego is Latin America (less civilised). It is like pretending that Haiti is a French-speaking underdeveloped Caribbean nation, but the Dominican Republic is part of Latin America; we must challenge the myth of Columbus ‘discovering’ the New World when two advanced civilisations were already there, the Mayans and Aztecs; it is like accepting unquestionably the notion of the Westphalian idea of the nation-state.
    I can go on, but you got my drift.


  48. re John December 22, 2017 at 1:29 PM #

    Meanwhile, across the border …

    http://fortune.com/2017/12/20/gop-tax-bill-att-boeing/

    PLEASE YOU CANT POST STUFF LIKE THAT ON BU PLEASE
    BU IS ANTI-TRUMP


  49. Can I ask the j-ass WWC if she/he/it knew that on April 6, 2017, Russia recognized Jerusalem as Isreal’s capital. Just answer Yes or No without the accompanying drivel.

    Where was all the holy outrage then?

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