Prime Minister Mia Mottley shows off a Kensington Oval ready for T20 World Cup
Chief Justice Marston Gibson, heads the Judicial and Legal Services Commission

The following extracted from the Sunday Sun September 23, 2012:

“A High Court is being asked to block the appointment of a Crown Counsel in the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP). In an unprecedented legal development, attorney at law Elwood Watts, who acted as Crown Counsel in the DPP’s office for the past six years, is seeking an injunction against the Judicial and Legal Services Commission, chaired by Chief Justice Marston Gibson and includes Appeal Court Justice Sandra Mason and High Court Justice Maureen Crane-Scott.

Attorney at law Alison Burke, who was recently admitted to the Bar, was to take up the permanent appointment as Crown Counsel effective September 1. But in his court filings challenging the decision of the Judicial and Legal Services Commission to ratify Burke’s appointment, Watts has complained that the position of Crown Counsel was never advertised as required by law. As a result, the former police sergeant who has been on secondment to the DPP’s office, said he never had a chance to secure the appointment.

Reports indicated that Burke, who was attached to the Ministry of Health as a staff nurse prior to her appointment, never had any experience in court proceedings. A date is to be set for hearing of the injunction.”

As is often the case, the half baked report deposited into the public space by the Nation newspaper has generated several questions in the BU household, questions which a little probing by a rookie journalist should have felt obligated to ask the relevant parties and laid bare for an unenlightened public.

Is this a junior or a senior position? The way the Nation puts it, it sounds like a senior position, but is it? Would it have required Holmes-like ability to have informed the public to enable it to ‘adjudge’ the matter?

  1. BU would be interested to know what are the conditions of such an appointment? Is it required that it be advertised? (Caswell?) How come the young lady could send in an application and was presumably interviewed and appointed – and the person acting, not know and do the same?

What modicum of legal knowledge is available to BU suggests that this is a matter of public interest and therefore the Nation newspaper does not have the usual escape route available to it by howling SUB JUDICE.

If we were to generously critique the report, it seems unbalanced and reflects an investigation of one side only. The newspaper appears not to have asked any questions of the DPP et al, including CJ Gibson. All questions which a worthy Fourth Estate should have felt entitled to ask in the circumstances. BU can speculate why from reading between the lines Elwood Watts feels he is entitled to the job.

BU and many others, except the so called Fourth Estate, have remarked critically MANY times on the delays coming from the DPP and how people are left on remand for YEARS due to failure to prosecute in a timely manner. This is not only the fault of the courts, but also the DPP. BU and many others, except the so called Fourth Estate, have remarked critically MANY times on the delays coming from the DPP and how people are left on remand for YEARS due to failure to prosecute in a timely manner. This is not only the fault of the courts, but also, largely, of the DPP.  Watts has been a part of that problem for 6 years. Unfortunately because of the lack of proper reporting by the Nation, we have to consider that he was passed over or not invited to apply because he was unsatisfactory as Barbados tries to upgrade its judicial system.

There is so much more which can be gleaned from the report but BU is only a blog so why bother.


  1. @ Sarge
    Ya see that is where you soooooooooooo wrong…..ck again ..D sensible who readin me…hint how long it tek D chief electrical engineer?….water-tight nuh….better look for a parachute fa ee..LOL


  2. @ Mash up and buy back

    “Every damn government and corporation politicised to the max since Arthur get his hand on it. Steupes!”

    Come on, Mash-up, wha yuh talking ’bout? You guys seem to think that this administration has been transparent in its operations. Nonsense. The very same things they talked against, they are doing. Let us talk about being political.

    • Ruedon Eversley, DLP press secretary, Director of News and Current Affairs at CBC;
    • Maureen Holder – CBC;
    • John Lovell – CBC;
    • Derek Alleyne – Director, UDC;
    • Leroy McClean – CEO, BIDC;
    • Keith “Jolla” Barrow – Director, Drainage Unit;
    • Sandra Forde – General Manager, Transport Board;
    • Patrick Gollop – free money at Transport Board;
    • Donna Hunte-Cox – Director, NCF (but fall out of favour);
    • Dr. Delisle Worrell – Governor of the Central Bank;

    I could go on and on


  3. @Onions

    Again you politicos make mock sport at a serious matter. Examples can be cited which have been the result of court actions resulting in cost to taxpayers. Remember the three Arthur sacked from the QEH? It would be interesting to see the figure which successive governments have dispensed because of similar actions. As usual the ordinary folk are left to pay.


  4. @Casewell. You will do anything you can to try to put the CJ in the wrong, won’t you? Shades of the Jeff Broomes tactics you employed.

    @Bush Tea | September 25, 2012 at 7:36 AM. It is NOT passing strange. If it happened once, it would be a coincidence. Twice, even more so. BUT, it happens all the time. And that can only be defined only as CORRUPTION.

    Also, Bushie, to be fair to the CJ, he has outlined his proposed changes (or some of them). But these were (and sadly remain) outlines only and I see no signs whatsoever of implementation. The CJ talks about ADR and also about compulsory ADR, but I am yet to see any specific written brief from him outlining, IN SPECIFICS, how he proposes this be implemented. And the time is long past due now for him to step up to the plate.

    Also, Bushie, do me a favour and explain to Just Asking what is meant by “dried pussy”. You did it so well in the AX discussion – far better than I would have dared to, given the propensity for violence of SWMBO.

    @helpless | September 25, 2012 at 6:49 AM I don’t know if there are 300 outstanding cases before the Court of Appeal. But what I do know is that the Court of Appeal hands down only about a dozen decisions a year. I know of several people who have been waiting far in excess of the time stipulated in the Constitution for decisions from the Court of Appeal. BUT, lawyers are starting to bring constitutional motions and sooner or later these are going to hit the international press in a major way.

    @CCC. If the photos are sent to David and he posts them, or sends them to me, I can easily get an expert who will be prepared to be named to inspect them and see if they are photo-shopped or real. It can easily be done by experts, you know. And I just happen to know a few such experts. I will be happy to ask a favour of them. So just post the pictures and leave it to me.

    @David. So the firm is Cottle Catford. How the mighty have fallen. That used to be THE LAW FIRM. It was No. 1 for over 100 years with every major account going. But there have been a lot of problems there in the last several years. A LOT of them. One former partner of the firm was H. Michael Simmons and then there was a woman solicitor who had problems as well. Most recently, a big and contentious legal action between the present senior partner, Philip Nicholls and the former senior partner, St Clair Watson. But back in the day, as Sargeant has said, it was a major law firm. I would go further and say that it was THE major law firm. Hasn’t been so since about the mid 70s. Well, well well.


  5. @David
    The Civil List I had used did not have post of Insurance Officers 1, I subsequently checked and update one and find there are post of Insurance Officer 1 and II. I apoligise for referencing and outdated document.

    I also checked with NUPW and someone form the NIS personnel section and was informed the lady in quuestion held the appointment of Insurance officer 1 and no post was created, but her post was transferred to that department hence increasing the posts there by one and that was communicated to the staff, but caswell in an effort to confuse the situation entered the fray, clearly with the objective of stealing nupw members. If you know anybody at NIS ask them if the lady’s post was not transferred to NIS.

    Mr. Franklyn you owe this blog an explanation as to why you stated that a post was created, when it was tranferred.

  6. Carson C. Cadogan Avatar

    These BLP people love to get their hands on taxpayers money.
    GE case somehow got fast tracked. I am surprised that he was not awarded $800million.
    All the Government has to do is to Appeal on some grounds or other and tie it up for another twenty years.
    I have a friend who has a divorce case going through the system SINCE 1992!!!! No such good luck for him.
    I had a friend who committed suicide in 1985 and the Coroners inquest was only held about three years ago.
    But this foolishness could get rushed through the Courtss in less than five years.
    Boy it is who you know!


  7. So what Mr Carson C ?
    your argument is hog-pupp


  8. To the Point

    You obviously do not fully grasp the concepts of transferring, creating abolishing post.

    The office of supervisor of insurance has been abolished by the creation of the Financial Services Commission. There are therefore no posts left to transfer. What took place was a ruse to placate or even deceive the NIS staff. Incidentally, an insurance officer at NIS and one at the Office of Supervisor of Insurance did not remotely perform any of the same duties.

    The PM was deceived into “transferring” the post. There was nothing to transfer. The duties are not the same. You would transfer a post if the portfolios are reshuffled and a department is allocated to another ministry. The new ministers did not spare the time to find out their roles and are constantly being deceived by senior public officers.


  9. @Caswell
    you really think people here stupid. The post was transferred, how come u r now using the word tansferred when u said a post was created. The anme of the post was the same even if the duties were different. You can really stop misleading the nis staff and let them get on with their job.


  10. @To the point

    For the slow among us, how can a post which existed in a department that was made redundant through the establishment of a new agency be transferred to another unit? If you want to use the word transfer then it implies that the job function remained the same i.e.the job function at SOI remained the same at NIS.

  11. millertheanunnaki Avatar

    @ Sargeant | September 25, 2012 at 9:09 AM |

    Sarge, what kind of pontius pilate cock growing peter denial of a friend response is that?

    He will be dismissed whatever the financial consequences. How can an administration have as the head of a most important agency a known politician and a well heeled insider of the DLP?
    Are you mad or what? McClean’s appointment as CEO of the BIDC is purely political. He is clearly out of his depth and field. Any black belly sheep can see that.

    Why are you defending the indefensible? Leroy knew the risks before he took up the job. That is why he demanded a ‘sweetheart’ deal that would ensure a severance package equivalent to his CLICO namesake Leroy gratuity “Sweet Cakes” deal. For just 9 months of talking bullshit about the 1980’s-90’s mandate of assembling computers in an age of tablets and smartphones Leroy McDirty would be taking the Treasury to the cleaners for even more dirty money than Georgie the ‘ramsheep’ Edghill. He (Leroy the minister that never was) would be listened to more if he were to talk bullshit around building solar panels, small wind turbines and smart electronics lighting or even the export of surplus blackbelly lamb after meeting local requirements.


  12. All the talk about the speed of the court system in this case is a red herring to distract from the poor decision making of the late PM Thompson and his Cabinet.
    GE is only the beginning, there are 3 more cases against this same UDC pending a final decision. If wunna think George’s pay out big, think again.


  13. @enuff

    It is not a red herring. It is a legitimate issue arising from the decision which has been discussed often on BU.


  14. @David

    You cannot abolish post and dont retire the holder of the post THAT IS APPOINTED DO U REMEMBER THE CAMPBELL GUY HIS POST WAS ABOLISHED. Thats the first thing. The post which the lady holds could not have been abolished else she would have been RETIRED AND WOULD NOT THEN BE ENTILTED TO A NEW POST. Therefore A post which was established under the Civil Establishment Order and to which she was appointed stood. we would you want the crown to continue to pay her for doing nothing. The decision was taken to tranfer her post, one to which she was appointed to NIS regradless to if the duities in the supervior of insurance officer differ fron those from NIS, Dont you think that she would have agreed that the job description would have to change to reflect the current situation.

    THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TRANFERRING A POST AND ABOLISHING A POST. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BEWTWEEN CREASTING A POST AND TRANSFERRING ONE.


  15. @David

    are u aware that a job description could be changed as long there is consensus


  16. @To the point

    Shouldn’t a JD be consonant with departmental objectives?


  17. you are not getting the whole picture. I will repeat. Having had the post transferred, the jd will be tailored to suit that of the NIS thats what I am saying.


  18. So you are saying that the post was transferred in circumstances where there was not a need for NIS to increase staff strength?


  19. To the Point (2:00)

    I do not think people here are stupid. Maybe, I did not make myself clear or you refuse to understand because it is not what you want to hear.

    There was no post to transfer from Supervisor of Insurance to NIS. A new post was created in NIS and through a process of deceit and trickery the PM was misled into believing that he was merely transferring a post. Post are transferred when there is a reallocation of departments; for example when the Drainage Division was created some of the posts at the Ministry of Public Works were transferred to the Ministry of the Environment. Public Works no longer has responsibility for drainage. In this case, the work of the Supervisor of Insurance was not transferred to NIS, so you really can’t transfer the post.

    The posts at the Office of the Supervisor of Insurance no longer exist, there were in effect abolished. I will repeat, they used the term transfer to deceive the NIS staff. There was no transfer of any post. That was a ruse to get around the law which requires that the post be advertised.

    I hope that I was able to explain what transpired to you, and you would realize that I did so without returning the venom.


  20. David (2:06)

    You are absolutely correct. Do not let To the Point confuse you. The Pensions Act only requires that a person should be retired if no comparable post can be found for the officer whose post was abolished. The posts of Insurance Officer at NIS is not comparable to the post of Insurance Officer that existed at the Office of Supervisor of Insurance. They only had the same name but their functions were as different as day and night.


  21. Mr. Franlyn

    The young lady’s post was transferred, it was not abolished and I hold my position on that. NO new post was created. There was a comparable post and hence her post was trqnsfered to that department.

    You are using the opportunity to confuse the NIS staff, at the meeting held with the human resources section,the staff were informed that the the transferred post would increase the number of insurane officers post and therefore they ware not being disadvantaged, but as usual you enetered the fray with the hope of getting members and therefore in your effort to do so, u have tried to discredit the union.

    why when you were drawing so much money as a PA u were not talking about right and wrong. I applaud the govt for transferring the post, instead of paying somebody to stay home to do nothing.

    This is my last discourse with u on this subject.

    @David

    has there been a resolution on the matter with Mr. Watts?


  22. @To the point

    Why don’t you attack what Caswell is saying and leave out the ad hominems?

    Based on what Caswell stated, he seems to be making sense of the matter given the information posted so far.


  23. @David

    i dont know how old the lady is, she did not want to work with FSA and hence the govt found a similar name and tranferred to that department, The rule is that as londg as there is a similar post she could be offered, but there was no need to offer her one as she had one. Would you have preferred her to be pensioned off, and suppose she does not want to be pensioned off like what happened at the hospital what would you have done?


  24. @To the point

    Did you write “she did not want to work with FSA “?

    Are you serious?

    What is the rule here?


  25. @WHAT’S GOING ON ? | September 24, 2012 at 3:04 PM |
    “Hello David of BU,
    How come you blatantly refuse to publish the photos that a fellow blogger emailed to you showing OSA lying down on the ground in mud outside John Moore’s shop yesterday, Sunday 23 September 2012 ?”

    u flipping poppet if David would not publish them, then u put them on ur FACEBOOK page for us to see…that simple…won’t make any difference those DLP fat pigs will not be in power after elections. the same young people who voted for them primarily because of David Thompson are now disillusioned. many have said they will not vote for anyone but that’s their problem….it means that the BLP voters will be in the majority


  26. @mash up and buy back | September 24, 2012 at 8:53 PM |

    “Go to hell man yuh duppy yuh!”

    BE CAREFUL WHAT U SAY. Remember David Thomspon said similar words to Owen Arthur and where is David Thompson today?

    Also a mechanic said similar words about David Thomspon and he died of a heart attack about 6 hours after saying the DT was a walking duppy.


  27. David

    To the Point is simply not telling the truth and knows very well that the young lady would not have gotten any pension and gratuity until she reached the age of sixty years. This is as a result of a misinterpretation of a provision of the Pensions Act, by the then Justice Waterman in the Winton Campbell case which was subsequently confirmed by the CCJ. Public officers whose posts are abolished are not now entitled to any payments until they reach 60 years of age. They will not get severance pay nor NIS unemployment benefits.

    Government has exploited that misinterpretation in respect off workers from UDC who they believed to be BLP supporters, but in this case, they did not want to hurt one of their own. That is why they used this intellectual sleight of hands to deceive the workers if NIS rather than go to Parliament and fix the problem created by the misinterpretation.


  28. Mr. Franklyn you owe this blog an explanation as to why you stated that a post was created, when it was tranferred.

    if the lady was transferred to a post where there was none before, it meant that the post was created, then she was transferred into it. Caswell is correct


  29. That should have been, workers at NIS.


  30. The Public Service ia lot of shite with a lot of idiots doing ignorance. I wouldnt want to work there if you were paying me a million dollars.
    Going to a Government Office to do business is the hardest most unpleasant thing in the world. The attitude of most of the workers is the pits. They usually treat you with a look of “why are disturbing my day ?” “Go away and dont humbug me”


  31. @ JUST ASKING
    “They usually treat you with a look of “why are disturbing my day ?” “Go away and dont humbug me””
    **********************
    But you ARE disturbing them. What the hell would make you crazy enough to go and disturb the people during their work?

    -Don’t you know that these jobs represent their rightful benefits as Bajans?
    -Don’t you know that big able economist (economiss) like Mascoll and O$A argue that paying them is good for the economy?
    -Don’t you know that NOBODY can fire them….whether they work or not?
    – don’t you know that even if you complained Caswell or some other union GURU would be down on your case with some obscure rule made by idiot politicians who can not even operate a snow cone cart successfully?
    Don’t you know that you should be grateful that you did not get a hard slap for going and disturbing the people day rest?

    JUST ASKING a few questions…..since you won’t…


  32. @Bushie
    Don’t you know that big able economist (economiss) like Mascoll and O$A argue that paying them is good for the economy?
    ****************************
    Give BU family a break nah…….. .BARE CRAP and for the TBowl……Is this some competition on,(DLP yardfowls) to see who cud tell the most LIES?

    Like the latest faux pas… passing legislation to allow ships to gamble on we waters in we port from 6 pm to 6 am?..UNDER THE GUISE OF SHOPPING and more $$$$ for the nite owl taxi men. Who DEM think they fooling ..YOU? Think Barbadians so gullible not to connect this to the PLANNED NEW PORT FACILITY unveiled only two weeks ago ?


  33. @Smooth

    posts in the public service are transferred from department as the need arises, in creating a post, you have to have it evaluated to determine if there is a need for the request, in transferring a post, you add to one department/ministry and reduce the list for that department by one. Therefore, you cannat argue that transferring a post is creating a post.

    Further, request are made to the Ministry of the Civil Serive for the creation of a post. In the first instance the post is created for a specified time, i think the maximun is for thre years as a temporary post at which time a determination must be mase if it should be establishe, that means it is enetered in the Civil Establishment orer and it is only then can anyone be appointed that post. IT MUST BE ESTABLISHED for anyone to be appointed thereto. When a post is created, u r appointed to act in that post, and not appointed, AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE, TRANSFERRING A POST IS NOT CREATING A POST OR ESTABLISHING ONE. YOU CAN CHECK THE CIVIL ESTABLISHMENT ORDER TO SEE WHAT POSTS HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED IN THE PUBLIC SERVICE YOU WOUD NOT FIND TEMPORARY POSTS IN THAT OFFICE. I REST MY CASE.

    @DAVID

    YES I AM FOR REAL. YOU ALLOW CASWELL TO ATTCK PEOPLE, HENCE I HAVE THE SAME ENTILTLEMENT WHEN IT COMES TO MR. FRANKLYN, DONT L?


  34. @To the point

    You can have the last word.


  35. @All

    there are two more former employess of the Supervisor of Insurance Office who are being paid, waiting to be posted. If they posts were abolished, would they be still receiving as salary? Hell no, they would have been pesioned off, silaar to what had obtained at the Hospital and the airport. I rest my case.

  36. millertheanunnaki Avatar

    @ Bush Tea | September 25, 2012 at 11:30 PM |
    “Don’t you know that big able economist (economiss) like Mascoll and O$A argue that paying them is good for the economy?”

    Are you referring to the same public sector workers that FS the astute communicator described as the best in the West? Are these the same group so admirably described as productively and effectively outstanding and worthy of the highest commendation if not a salary increase?
    Come on Bushie, why would a country want to get rid of some of its best brains and brilliant workforce?

    Before you comment you must always remember the BBE upstairs is monitoring every ‘time and motion’ activity and statement emanating from the Bushman who has sworn to uphold commitment to the tenets of fairness, balance and most of all to the Truth.

    You speak with a forked tongue coated with a partisan grunge in the colours of yellow and blue- not a good sign of good political health. You cannot in one breath speak about the BLP is planning to send home10,000 from the public sector while in another breath speak about OSA and Mascoll keeping them on the payroll for the good of the economy. Or are you arguing that the BLP would send them home but continue to pay them full salary since there would no drop in productivity?

    You ought to ask the DLP what plans they have to “restructure” the public sector.
    Or its it business as usual like the tertiary education sector where sacred cows are sacrosanct even if the economy is going downhill in a wheelbarrow overflowing with the army of occupation and unable to meet the financial demands from EWB’s dreams and Hillary Beckles’s idealistic projects.


  37. @ Miller
    Skippa, if there are things that you want or need to say on BU just go long and say them nuh …. Why do you need to reference Bushie’s foolish comments?
    You hear the bushman looking to send home people? All Bushie did was to warn JUST ASKING bout touching the Lord’s anointed…. You like you got clothes hang out and looking for rain yuh….:)

    Another thing…
    Just because a group is described as the ‘best in the west’ does not say that they are not mediocre…. You ever heard of the status of the one eye man in blind man land?

    Finally, Bushie’s colors are blue and gold not yellow. These colors are national and beyond anything partisan. They are also associated with an ‘over 300 year old’ institution of influence.
    Up and on…..

  38. millertheanunnaki Avatar

    @ Bush Tea | September 26, 2012 at 10:37 AM |
    If you really are one of the anointed then you must accept that hypocrisy and double standards are not manifestations of the glow from ‘holy’ oil.
    So let us reason together. If Freundel is in high praise of a Service that is the hallmark of mediocrity would you agree that such an assessment reflects the truly blinkered character of the man among blind incompetents?

    Maybe in your old school ties that bind ways he, Freundel, has not benefitted from the “right” grooming in the virtues of: “Religione, Humanitate and Industria”.

    The miller is a strong believer in the line “Ever upward to the Light” and does not have to wash his dirty school tie in public to show his rejection of mediocrity in any form but can openly boast of moorings deeply embedded in the ‘water’ ford.

    “Lives are in the making here
    Hearts are in the waking here
    Mighty undertaking here
    Up and on, up and on.
    We are arming for the fight
    Pressing on with all our might
    Pluming wings for higher flight
    Up and on, up and on.

    Up then! Truest fame lies in high endeavour
    Play the game, keep the flame burning brightly ever
    Up then! Truest fame lies in high endeavour
    Play the game, keep the flame burning brightly ever

    Foes in plenty we shall meet
    Hearts courageous scorn defeat
    So we press with eager feet
    Up and on, up and on.
    Ever upward to the fight
    Ever upward to the light
    Ever true to God and Right
    Up and on, up and on.

    Fair before us lies the way
    Time for work and time for play
    Fill the measure while we may
    Up and on, up and on.
    Life and time will not delay
    Time is running fast away
    Life is now – today, today
    Up and on, up and on.”

    Penned by the Big Boss Engineer (BBE)


  39. LOL @ Miller
    Bushie doubts that it was penned by BBE, however it certainly carries the mark of being composed by a proper Micro Mock Engineer 🙂


  40. As crazy would say….”Madness Is Gladness”….LOL


  41. I read some section of the Financial Service Commision Act and was intereted in section 35(!) which states that where a Public Officer (po) accepts employment with the commission, the p o shall retain rights to pension, gratuity or other allowance for which he would have been eligible had he remained in the public service and any such rights preserved.
    The 2008 Public Service (General )Orders(formerly the Civil Establishment (General) Orders was the last order passed establishing or abolishing posts in the Public Service.

    The Post of Insurance Officer ! and II is bracketed. For Insurance Officer 1 the requirements are a degree in Accounting, Economics or Public Administration. Not les than three year’s relevant is required or
    Completion of the Certificat Level of the ACCA programme or the equivalent level of professional qualification in Accounting recognized by the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Barbado. not less than five years’s relevant experience is required, or

    The final certificat in Insurance and not less than five years’ relevant experience

    For Insurance Officer II no experiece is required if the person has the requisite degree, if the qualifiaction as mentioned above as regards accounting qualification or the intermediate certificate in insurance three years relevant experience is required.


  42. @Bushie
    @Miller
    The 300 year celebration of ye ole up and on saw a call from Harold Edmund the Dean for the school to be renamed to honour the benefactor Drax.Besides still owning Drax Hall and a having an MP in the present Commons,given the wealth and influence of the Drax family,should not this suggestion be taken up by you old scholars to benefit present and future students.An expanded plant and instruction to train future generations of administrators in all aspects of governance of Barbados might be the way to go.In other words let the Drax legacy started in 1695 come full circle and be that school now at Waterford specialize in producing the future leaders of Barbados.I know that given your penchant for scholarship you are aware that the Drax Arms of 1367 is in the colours of blue and gold?Coincidence?


  43. @Smooth chocolate

    I was waiting for your repsonse since stating that the last time post were abolished was in the 2008 order so the Insurance Officer post could not have been ablished, have u and ur cohorts gone silent on this matter having followed Mr. Know all sheepishly.

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