In the Defence of the Honourable Prophet Hazrat Mohammad (PBUH)

Submitted by Pachamama

Are we witnessing the result of a clash of civilizations? Credit: Opinion Maker

We would have preferred that our esteemed colleagues, who are experts in the rich and diverse Islamic traditions and its last Prophet (PBUH), be the ones most capable of defending a dynamic set of cultures as followed by two billion people throughout the world. The recent publication of a poorly produced promode of a non-existing ‘movie’ was constructed for the precise purpose of insulting the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and his followers and is properly located within a larger struggle which comes at a time when Western capitalist traditions have long passed their apogee. The artificial construction of the so-called clash of civilizations by some in the academic community was merely to serve Western domination of the Muslim world, more precisely – what they now call the Middle East and those Muslims living there.  We will argue that since the collapse of the USSR, Western countries have sought to surreptitiously set up the world of Islam as the global boogeyman, a counterpoint – for capitalism can only exist when it has an enemy. This scenario was to provide a contrast, while at the same time demonize Islam and Muslims while presenting a dying Western liberal capitalism as the ONLY choice for the peoples of the world. The leaders in the West are well aware that Islam has the potential for presenting the nearest and possibly the most viable alternative, in all the cultural spheres, and this is unhelpful to them at a time when the fear of losing global hegemony constantly dominates their geo-political or geo-strategic calculations.

On the one hand, we have had Western military adventures into the Islamic Ummah for more than a century in the modern epoch. Of course, readers of this subject will readily recall the unholy Christian crusades of earlier centuries into the Islamic world.  Western countries, especially the British, the French and the Americans had established compliant oil monarchies and the usurper regime in most of Palestine by 1948. The Zionists still occupied an island previously owned by the Saudis. How can the custodian of Islam’s most sacred places effectively defend Muslims when it has surrendered part of its territory to the ‘infidels’? How can Beitol-Moghaddas ever be recovered with traitors to the Prophet of Islam in power in Arabia? There has not been a word from one single Arab leader. That is way we, the non-believers, must defend the Prophet (PBUH). However, the nation of Islam is awaking and the world is unlikely to be the same. The enemies of the Prophet have done all this, in search of ‘profit’ while containing the universality of the teachings of the Holy Prophet of Islam (PBUH). These teachings are largely antithetical to capitalism. The peoples of Muslim majority countries yet hold onto their core beliefs. These beliefs are largely ‘unfamiliar’ to most in the West, especially those calling themselves Christians. This ignorance suborns the desired responses from too many of us. The ignorant hurl comments about ‘terrorism’ and ‘wife beatings’ when, in fact, the real moral corruption of the world comes from the Western countries. In the final analysis what we are witnessing are the limitations of military might and an inability of the custodians of Islam’s Holiest places to further deceive the masses of the people in their support for global hegemony as the price for maintaining their corrupt regimes at home.

Most people in Western societies are largely unaware that in Islam – Jesus, Mohammad and Abraham (PBUT) are all seen as Prophets. Therefore, there will never be a circumstance where Muslims would retaliate for the ignorance of Westerners by say, abusing Jesus in the way the Prophet Mohammad or even Jesus (PBUT) are often denigrated by us in the West. We often abuse Jesus (PBUH) as we swear. This type of thing is generally unacceptable in the Islamic world. In fact, Arabic and Farsi do not even consider this eventuality. Yes, Islam sees Jesus Christ (PBUH) as a Prophet, not as the son of God, as Christian do. This represents one of the main differences between all three major Abrahamic faiths. Jews that Christians pretend to love so much, up to this day, do not recognize Jesus at all. They still await their Messiah, so a carpenter’s son could not qualify. Most Christians have never even gone to the place where they believe their saviour was born, grew up and lived and there is no requirement to do this. If they did, they are likely to have a Damascus road conversion. But the Christians, especially the rabid dispensationalists, are prepared to create circumstances where millions of people will die in order for their criminal end time ‘prophecy’ to come true.  Moreover, it was the Jews who acted again the Jesus of the Christian Bible. Not to consider any man as the son of God, to an outside observer, seems like a more rationally hermeneutical construction. It is this rationalism that threatens Westerners as more of their populations are converting to Islam every day. Some Islamophobes, in jest, even want to change the name of a major Western capital to Londonistan. Other differences between Islam and Christianity are having resonance in Western Societies. For example, Islam has a different attitude toward family life, marriage and polygamy. There is no man in Barbados that I know who has only one woman. Maybe Islam could show us how we might bring our ‘illegitimate’ domestic activities within a more structured model.

Islam has an alternative narrative on issues of war and peace. It does, like Judaism, but unlike Christianity proselytize, and much more. The Islamic financial architecture is incapable of giving birth to the level of devastation now consuming Western economies. In the absence of interest – charging of money for money, which Islam considers as haram. If Islamic finance were applied to Western economies there would not be in the current deplorable shape that presently is the case. And they CANNOT be fixed without a radical, out of the box solution from another world, the Islamic world. Another structural Western economic problem that Islam has something to say about is the dispersion of cost and the consolidation of benefits to selected individual and corporation. The racist people in charge know these possible answers from Islam well so Islam is deemed as a threat to Europeans and their progeny.  These are other reasons to blaspheme the Prophet of Islam (PBUH) and suppressed possible and real non-Western democratic solutions as given by the Islamic traditions.

We are unable to make the judgment that Islam or its Prophet is/was perfect. Within Islam, the Wahhabi sect of Saudi Arabia continues to destroy historic shrines under the pretext that ancient monuments could encourage idolatry; it supports Western inspired terrorism in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan and elsewhere. It was in the name of Islam that Arabs invaded North African countries and instituted their religion at the tip of a sword and displaced Animism and other authentic and indigenous religions that evolved from the beginning of time. Internal and external forces strive to maintain a near artificial difference between Shia, Sunni, Sufi and other sects. Arabs are known for spitting upon Black people. Even within the royal family of al-Saud, Prince Bandar (Bush) was never to be seen as a likely successor to his brother, the king, primarily because his mother was a black African woman. It was Ayatollah Khomeini who reminded us that in Islam only Allah, not Mohammad, is King. Still, we have the preponderance of Western established petrol monarchies in the Islamic world aimed at servicing Western interests, not those of the Mohammedans.

On the other hand, we have France, the Netherlands and other European countries banning academicians and others who question the efficacy of the established holocaust narrative that is said to have happened in Europe, particularly Germany during World War Two. Merely questioning the ‘holocaust’ can land one in jail in several European countries but the real Holocaust of 100 million African is removed from our collective memory – a Holocaust that was a Jewish project from the beginning to the end and as started by Christopher Columbus, the Italian Jew. Why don’t the Bajans ask why we have the second oldest Synagogue in the Western world? What about the involvement of the Arabs in this global enterprise? Would the Prophet (PBUH) have countenance this massive crime? We humbly submit not.

Followers of Mohammad (PBUH) in some European countries are prevented from wearing hijab and niqab. Even in some Muslim majority countries, like Turkey, the fundamental human rights of Muslims to dress in non-Western ways are outlawed. In Turkey it is against the law for female student to wear Islamic dress. There was a false flag operation targeting New York a number of Septembers ago. They said then that fifteen of the nineteen so-called hijackers were Muslims from Saudi Arabia working with al-Qaeda. Ok, if these were Muslims from Saudi why did they not invade Saudia Arabia? How come Western governments are working with the same al-Qaeda ‘terrorists’ to overthrow the Government of Syria right now? Tell us how come it is the same Saudi regime that is funding this anti-Syrian army? How is it that the criminal regime in Riyadh can find all these resources to kill thousands of Muslims throughout the Islamic world and would not lift a finger to address the biggest obstacle to the Islamic Ummah – the Zionist regime that occupies Palestine? Those of us who have gone to Azerbaijan have seen mass efforts to de-Islamize the country under a Western acolyte. Are these tyrants really followers of the Prophet (PBUH)? These behaviors are all un-Islamic.

Westerners like to talk about human rights and the right of freedom of expression. However, if one were to go in Central London or New York or even Saudi Arabia and publicly proclaim our love for the freedom fighters of Hezbollah under the charismatic leadership of His Eminence Hassan Nasrallah or hail the revolutionary leadership of Hamas for their respective victories over occupation and domination, we will be hauled off to prison for the ‘lack of free speech’. More importantly, should be bring to a popular narration the two military victories over the Zionist usurpers by the Great Iranian Nation, Western apologists will call us supporters of a terrorist state and may even haul us off to Guantanamo Bay or Bhagram. But the beloved Prophet of the Muslim peoples (PBUH) can be denigrated and blasphemed while France and the USA insist that the ‘rights’ of white Westerners are sacred, not the beliefs of two billion Muslims. Does this not make the whole religious philosophical construction questionable, at least? Islam, as sincerely followed, commands the believer to defend the oppressed. It is this central commandment that Western leadership finds uncomfortable.

Nearly a week ago we surmised that the release of this ‘trailer’ was a Zionist-AntiObama-Mormon-Republican plot hatched by elements within the intelligence communities of the USA and Israel. This conclusion was based on an environmental analysis as the issue was unfolding. That environment indicated that Netanyahu was trying to interfere in the US presidential election to force Obama to make concessions that would guarantee a war with Iran regardless to who is elected president. Romney had already given Netanyahu a commitment that he (Romney) will declare a war on Iran if he won the election. So Adelson and all the other Jewish billionaires were flooding the Romney campaign will billions of dollars. But Netanyahu could not be certain that Romney would win. He however knew that Romney will do anything to become president of the USA. But in order to be certain that a war was on the cards Netanyahu wanted an iron clad guarantee from both candidates. No better bet than to get both candidates to make concessions that would guarantee a war where Americans would be sent to die for Israel again. And a lot of them would die in a war with IRI. But Obama was balking, so Netanyahu came to the USA to focus his not inconsiderable political and economic might to force Obama to obey the will of his master (Netanyahu). Imagine, what is wrong with the world when an inconsequential dependant state has the temerity to threaten the leader of the global hegemon? The Zionists have always and will continue to believe that they can determine American foreign policy, issues of war and peace. All this based on the lie that Jews are the chosen people of some god somewhere. The blasphemy against the Prophet (PBUH) represents the work of this devil and its agents around the world to create the circumstances for another war in the Islamic Ummah. Nothing is sacred or sublime with these people!

308 thoughts on “In the Defence of the Honourable Prophet Hazrat Mohammad (PBUH)


  1. @ Bush Tea | September 30, 2012 at 1:14 PM |
    “If you really are interested in understanding why God needed to create the devil in order to properly execute the project called”

    Yes I am interested. Interested more so in knowing if similar life-form projects exist on any of the zillions of planets in the Universe. Interested in knowing about the many devils that this Judean Zeus created to challenge the other imperfect life forms in those far flung constellations.


  2. Miller tell them what the good book has told believers do. Yet they call it the good book that is filled with murder and mayhem.


  3. “My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts,” says the LORD. “And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine.” (Isa.55:8) New Living Translation (2007)

    “Professing to be wise, they became FOOLS” ( Rom: 1:22)

    Almighty God, of historic divine revelation, Created the entire Universe, and IF HE* moves His* little FINGER, anthropormorphically speaking, IT TREMBLES! And, His Omnipotent Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, holds the SUN in the palm of His* hand like an ATOM!

    And mere mortals, like some ‘Bildge Pumpers’ here on BU, arrogently and ignorantly want to question His ways of doing things in HIS UNIVERSE!

    Truely FOOLS!


  4. @ Bush Tea | September 30, 2012 at 1:30 PM |
    “…perhaps he takes the “anunnaki” part too seriously ….LOL”

    Maybe if you yourself do a bit more serious research and read deeper into your book of myths and legends you would get to know where your Big Boss Engineers (those from the skies) came from.

    And the Sons of God came unto the daughters of men and they begat the Bushman and Zoe.

    Don’t laugh at things you know little about. It’s like thinking and behaving Barbados is the centre of the World.


  5. “Basically Darwin’s theory of evolution on the origin of life proposes that some four billion years ago, inanimate chemicals developed completely by chance into highly complex, living, single-celled organisms.”

    LOL Ph.D… that is simply not true. Here is a simple exercise. Cut and paste here on BU any sections of Darwin’s books that describes evolution in the manner you just did.

    Miller, could you explain your fascination with Ezekiel? His story is clearly laid out in the Bible…. he described his experiences in great detail.


  6. God’s Great Questions

    By Doug Batchelor

    An Amazing Fact: Did you know that the longest list of questions found in the Bible is made up of questions asked by God? In Job chapters 38 and 39, God poses query after query to His servant Job, who has daily begged for answers to some tough, heart-wrenching questions of his own.

    Instead of providing Job with simple answers, God delivers a string of thought-provoking riddles. They start with words like “Who? Where? When? Have you? Can you? Do you know?” He describes all the miracles of the animal kingdom, and He talks about the weather and the solar system and other mysteries of nature.

    It’s as if God is talking to Job as a parent would talk to a child. He asks: “Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades, Or loose the belt of Orion? Can you bring out Mazzaroth in its season? Or can you guide the Great Bear with its cubs?” (Job 38:31-32, NKJV).

    God asked Job questions in order to remind him that His ways are often beyond our understanding. Some people try to melt God down and put Him in a test tube so they can define Him and understand Him, but this is a mistake. The Bible says, “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways” (Isaiah 55:9).

    When we humans ask a question, it’s usually because we’re lacking information. God, on the other hand, knows everything. He’s omniscient; nothing is a mystery for Him. So I started wondering, Why are there so many Scriptures in which God asks a question? As I began looking through my Bible, I found hundreds of them!
    http://www.amazingfacts.org

    What I’ve discovered is that God does not ask questions because He doesn’t know the answers. He asks us deep, penetrating questions because He wants us to think.

    The famous philosopher Socrates, who lived about 400 B.C., used the very same teaching method. Rather than merely giving his pupils the answer to a particular problem, Socrates would ask them questions that forced them to analyze the situation and find the answers for themselves, which in turn helped them learn each subject more thoroughly.

    When God asks us a question, we really need to sit up and pay attention. When He tells us, “Come now, and let us reason together” (Isaiah 1:18), the Lord is inviting us to ponder along with the Almighty! What a privilege.


  7. the bible does suggest that man came from the soil of the earth the very theories which are espoused by evolutionist and which religions agree and preaches . the knowledge gained in modern day has allowed man to decipher and understand how this all came about, what creationist and evolutionist are squabbling about is an infinite creator or a superior being with supernatural powers who could have brought the universe into existence most likely than not the latter is all superstition created by ancient man in his quest to understanding the universe and a belief in supernatural powers through myths or story telling handed down from generation to generation and which continues into modern day. through out the bible recordings of such power persist as evident in the story of the burning bush and “sodom and Gomorrah” the parting of :the RED SEA. man limited comprehension of science gave them no other choice but to perceive those things as supernatural and that they should be forgiven however in a more advanced and technological driven world one would expect that man intelligence would have brought them into reality and would have moved man away from the belief and superstitions which our ancestor believed and stories told in search of quick answers apparantly not.


  8. @ Micro Mock Engineer | September 30, 2012 at 2:09 PM
    “Miller, could you explain your fascination with Ezekiel? His story is clearly laid out in the Bible…. he described his experiences in great detail.”

    As you pointed out the main character in the story book of Ezekiel clearly explains his encounter with extraterrestrials. The landing craft used by the Earth visitors were from the mother space ship.

    The character in the book- although not the first in Biblical history to interact with the Sons of God (Abraham being a known devotee to Melchisedic a Son of God and King of Salem) – was keen to describe in the language of the day what we today would call UFO’s and alien contact.
    The gods in the book of genesis were also aliens from another star system. Nothing too far fetch unless you want to call Genesis in the Bible a book of lies: “Let us make man in our own image”.
    Cf: “ Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a human being…’ Book of Ezekiel.


  9. Miller
    …so who questions the existence and role of extraterrestrials? Who has any doubt as to the existence of other life forms on other planets as well as here on earth?
    …you getting on as thought this is earth shattering information.

    Bushie will not respond to you about the role of the devil, simply because you are far too intelligent not to know of the existence, role and function of the Annunaki. That you have chosen the name speaks volumes and explains much.

    As an annunaki, You know full well of the brilliant and wonderful plan that God has executed in creating mankind (and the supporting earth infrastructure) but perhaps you have a solemn duty to deflect us from that truth.

    @ MME
    …mean you had to come back with that evolution spin again? Evolution exists OK! Beings evolve as time passes. Generally it is a process of DEGRADATION…..with very rare examples of change to more advanced life forms.
    BUT IT DOES NOT EXPLAIN OUR WORLD’S EXISTENCE.

    It takes far less FAITH to accept that a supernatural being with absolute power and knowledge created our physical world than it takes to accept that through random chance, our complex and delicately balanced world ” evolved” to it’s present state from essentially nothing.


  10. bushie that video was exclusively for you not wanting for you when “suspending in time” at the end of your life’s journey still beliving in fairy tales or mythical generational stories.


  11. It takes far less FAITH to accept that a supernatural being with absolute power and knowledge created our physical world than it takes to accept that through random chance, our complex and delicately balanced world ” evolved” to it’s present state from essentially nothing.

    ac @bushie

    shame on you does not your bible state that man was created from the soil of the earth. a similar theory which holds true with scientist expect on a more scientific scale with evidential proof which shows us that many of the compounds and elements that hold this universe together can be found in the DNA of man.


  12. Miller
    …so who questions the existence and role of extraterrestrials? Who has any doubt as to the existence of other life forms on other planets as well as here on earth?
    …you getting on as thought this is earth shattering information.

    ac @ bushie

    you are one work of art truly mindboggling ! not surprising you believe in extraterrestrial beings since you seem to believe in the things you have not seen.Miller i would accept as an evolutionist but your belief is in theory with the same principles such as your belief in God


  13. @ mme

    Darwin and his 200+ year old theories are of no interest to me . They are as dead as he is. I have not the time or desire to cut and paste pseudo scientific balderdash.

    When abiogenesis comes up in the course of evolution/creation discussions, darwinists sometimes object that “abiogenesis is a non-issue, and has nothing to do with evolution, because evolution only occurs with already living things.”

    Not true. –There is a scientific term, “pre-biotic evolution,” which concerns the random assembly of non-living chemicals, before and leading up to the very first life-form.

    If abiogenesis is a “non-issue,” then why do Dawkins, Sagan, Gould and many other darwinists come up with statements in order to affirm that it happened? Are they equally as inconsistent and confused in their understanding as the original perpetrator of the Evolution lie.


  14. Bush Tea

    You have always been a man of great faith. It is a trait that I admire in others. I however do NOT share this faith thing particularly one that is based on a Judea-Christian assessment. So I respectfully will stick with Miller as closely as I can for the time being.


  15. @Ph.D.
    “Darwin and his 200+ year old theories are of no interest to me . They are as dead as he is. I have not the time or desire to cut and paste pseudo scientific balderdash.”

    LOL Ph.D…. I am not surprised. Personally, I try to avoid speaking on subjects that I have not had the time or desire to properly investigate… and I almost never criticize someone’s work without first reading it… (I say almost never because I already know that I am going to disagree with Bush Tea’s next post LOL).

    “If abiogenesis is a “non-issue,” then why do Dawkins, Sagan, Gould and many other darwinists come up with statements in order to affirm that it happened? Are they equally as inconsistent and confused in their understanding as the original perpetrator of the Evolution lie.”

    No Ph.D…. they are equally as confused as you. If you want to argue with them, go right ahead. But I’d be happy to discuss Darwin’s theory of evolution if you feel so inclined…. You have to do your homework assignment first though LOL

    @Bushie,
    The theory of evolution is silent on the origin of life… it only deals with events after life first appeared. So you are right when you say it does not explain the world’s existence and things don’t evolve from nothing… BUT all living creatures today evolved from prokaryotes and eukaryotes over the past 3.5 billion years. God created the basic building blocks (energy and matter) and conditions (space, time, laws of universe/nature)… what we commonly refer to as ‘creation’ is the combination of those factors… a process that continues, and will continue, until the project is brought to an end.

    @Miller,
    You do Ezekiel a disservice. The man was extremely articulate and detailed in his descriptions using one of humanity’s most expressive languages (Hebrew)…. I mean the man did not make sport… here is how specific he is in his opening “Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, on the fifth day of the month”. Does that sound like someone who would take a cherubim for a space ship?… “the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had the likeness of a man. Each one had four faces, and each one had four wings. Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the soles of calves’ feet.” Dah sound anything like a space ship to you?

    No Miller, Ezekiel described exactly what he saw in a VISION…. the throne of God resting on a platform supported by four cherubim in each corner. The same throne is described in Daniel 7 and Revelation 4:7… are those space ships too? LOL… You really find it more plausible that the man had a close encounter of the third kind rather than a simple vision?


  16. “the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had the likeness of a man. Each one had four faces, and each one had four wings. Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the soles of calves’ feet.”

    Dah soun’ like something from outer space to me …! HA HA HA ..!


  17. @ Micro Mock Engineer | September 30, 2012 at 7:04 PM |
    “Dah sound anything like a space ship to you?”

    “15 As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. 16 This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. 17 As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. 18 Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.
    19 When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. 20 Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. 21 When the creatures moved, they also moved; when the creatures stood still, they also stood still; and when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.”

    As a self-proclaimed engineer doesn’t what is described above sound like some technologically advanced machine?
    What cherubims what? That is middle ages artistic expression along with angels and demons.
    God is supposed to be a non-physical being. Why would god want to sit on a physical throne?
    A vault is something that contains physical objects. The Bible god is supposed to be spirit like the wind- not seen only felt.


  18. LOL BAFBFP,
    What do you think is more likely…… Ezekiel had a vision OR he had an actual encounter with space men?

    When last you see creatures from outer space? Ha Ha

    @Miller
    What I find most odd, is that you would characterize the Bible as a story book, and then rely on literal interpretations of the same stories to inform your world view. Ezekiel tells you from the outset that he had a vision, but you prefer to ignore the man’s own words and instead conclude that he actually encountered space men. ROFL

    “As a self-proclaimed engineer doesn’t what is described above sound like some technologically advanced machine?”

    No, it doesn’t. Ezekiel was not an idiot, he would have recognised the difference between a living creature and a machine…. and he distinguishes quite clearly between living creatures and the objects they carried. Doesn’t it seem passing strange that these creatures would have been carrying their craft rather than the other way around. The man had a vision of God on his chariot/throne pulled by cherubim… and described it in vivid detail.


  19. Ezekiel’s Vision (Weigel, 1695)
    From http://www.biblical-art.com

    Ezekiel’s famous vision of the Divine Throne above the Four Living Creatures with their “wheels within wheels” contains all the elements of lightning, fire, a whirlwind, and great noise that typically attend the great revelations of God’s Word. Indeed, Ezekiel said that the sound emanating from the wings of the Four Cherubim was as “the Voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech” (Ezek 1:24), which is, of course, an exact description of what we hear resounding from God’s Holy Bible. It is the rolling thunder of God’s Voice. The “noise of many waters” represents the many human voices of the prophets through whom God revealed His Word as well as the great cloud of witnesses that have been proclaiming it throughout the ensuing millennia (water typifies people, see Spoke 13, BW book pg 265). It is the “voice of speech, as the noise of an host” reverberating within and ringing out from the Wheel (Galgal) of God’s Word like a Divine Bell summoning all who would know God.

    Ezekiel stated the ultimate meaning of this vision at the end when he saw the “appearance of a man” – the pre-incarnate Lord Jesus Christ – seated on His Throne above the Four Living Creatures and said “This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD” (Ezek 1:28). This is the miracle of true prophecy; he saw the glory of God shining “in the face of Jesus Christ” (2 Cor 4:6) six hundred years before His incarnation in Bethlehem (see Spoke 4, BW book pg 178).

    Ezekiel later identified the Living Creatures as Cherubim, saying “This is the living creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they were the cherubim” (Ezek 10:20). His reference to them as a single “living creature” signifies their profound unity. All four looked identical, and like the inseparable “wheel in the middle of a wheel” associated with each, they were intertwined as one for “their wings were joined one to another” (Ezek 1:9). The image of God enthroned above or between the cherubim originates in the design of the Mercy Seat that He revealed to Moses (Exo 25:18ff):

    And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be. And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony [the prototypical Word of God, Spoke 2, BW book pg 136] that I shall give thee. And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

    As discussed in Wings of Glory (Spoke 11, BW book pg 242), “cherub” is a Kaph KeyWord that is closely associated with many others such as kissey (throne), kasah (to cover), kanaph (wing), and kavod (glory). These supernatural creatures dwell in the presence of God and ceaselessly declare “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of hosts, the whole earth is full of His glory (kavod)” (Isa 6:3). It was from between the cherubim on the Mercy Seat above the Ark of the Testimony (God’s Word) that the Lord spoke with Moses (Num 7:89):

    If one rejects the historic revelation of Almighty God in His Word, the Bible, as Nnuki/Ralian et al do, then its impossible for them in their ‘blinded’ folly, to accept the coherence thus explained above!


  20. @BT,

    I forgot to mention that the creation process can still be easily observed today. For that matter, it is even possible to travel back in time and observe creation in action. Here is a photograph of over 500 galaxies just like ours under construction approximately 13 billion years ago….. courtesy of the Hubble time machine LOL… http://www.spacetelescope.org/news/heic0611/


  21. @ Micro Mock Engineer | September 30, 2012 at 9:28 PM |
    “the images in that photograph are over 8 billion years older than the earth.”
    MME, you have us confused. One minute you want the miller to accept that instead of ET’s Ezekiel actually saw God on his chariot drawn by cherubim. The next minute you want to tell us that there are galaxies, stars and planets 8 billions years older than Earth.
    Doesn’t the book of Genesis say that every thing in the Universe was created in six days? I am sure Zoe will confirm this!
    So let us be rational and reason together. If there are star systems billions of years older than ours don’t you think that there might just be life forms out there billions of times more advanced than ours on this very young terra firma? Why would your god sitting on a chariot drawn by slave-like beings called cherubs be so restricted to his only creatures on this lonely planet?
    Why is the idea or imagination of life forms existing in this or other galaxies so farfetched?
    Have you noticed the advance in technology that has taken place on this planet over the last 150 years? Just imagine what other life forms have accomplished in millions of years.
    Don’t dismiss the view that Earth has been visited by ETs. Our nearest neighbour star system Sirius is approx. 9 light years so the chances of encountering ET’s from say the Orion’s belt cluster in the form of the “Three Wise men” in our short lifetime are rather remote.
    Don’t dismiss the legends and tales of ancient cultures and peoples. We can learn a lot from the Sumerians and the Dogon people of Mali sub-Sahara Africa. Even the “primitive” tribes of the Americas could teach us a lot about ET visitations.
    Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why mankind is so fascinated with the heavens so much so that he is keen to travel either technologically or physically to other places?
    Edwin Hubble would turn in his grave or Gene Rodenberry’s ashes would turn cold to hear how dismissive you are of the existence of fellow life forms in far corners of this galaxy. Even Cpt. Janeway or Picard would find offensive and immature your Earth-bound imagination. (LOL!!)


  22. @ MME
    Bushie was away.
    Evolution is an ongoing reality. No one in their right mind disputes that fact. Species adapt to their environment, natural selection is a fact of natural life and planets undergo change with time.

    These are all scientific realities which are unrelated to creation. However- The fact of the matter is that at time T=0, God created life. You may well be correct that God did not actually make each individual species of plant and animal life, and may well have done so through a natural process over millions or billions of years. (In the case of man however, Bushie would tell you that God SPECIFICALLY formed man, in his own image, out of the dust of the earth and specifically breathed life into him.)

    Not to further confuse ac, but TIME means NOTHING to BBE. Whether a process was done in a day or in a billion years is not a factor for a being who operaties OUTSIDE of the sphere of time.

    Bottom Line.
    If you are arguing that creation was achieved by the INTELLIGENT design and implementation of a process of evolution after a basic living entity had been created, then Bushie have no problem with that position. That is what the bible says.
    That is a FAR cry from our reality being the chance result of arbitrary and unguided evolution resulting in life as we know it.

    How would you attempt to explain to an ac that to the creators of this entity, the concept of a “beginning” and an “end” DOES NOT EXIST.

    ….Perhaps you could just say that God created everything in 7 days and that with God, there is no difference between a day and a thousand years…. 🙂


  23. MME

    Maybe it is possible, if you think about it, for a man as detailed as Ezekiel, in as simple a time as the period that he was on the Earth, to be so ahead of his time that he could in fact be from outer space … HA HA HA … Listen, one day the people of Earth might get lucky and find a planet in one of those galaxies as shown by Hubble, that has a mirror on it that is pointing right back at us. Wow … could you imagine the possibilities …? HA HA HAA … MURDA …!


  24. @ mme

    Please , you are in no position to patronize me by ASSIGNING some trivial tasks on evolution .

    That you have the effrontery to continue to insist that I partake in you rather puerile ,and mundane , high school debate, is self revealing on your part.

    Sir, I have reached the academic apex that I set out to. Been there , done that. I refuse to be suffocated by the banalities of evolutionary CRAP.

    Of course the term “evolution” can particularly refer to concepts such as macroevolution, microevolution or simply non-scientific progression through time.

    This multiplicity must be recognized so that an observation, such as change within a species, does not assume to prove change from one species into another – two different kinds of evolution operating through different mechanisms.

    Naturalistic evolution, whereby life is said to have progressed and diversified from single celled organisms to mammals and humans through innumerable instances of gene mutation and natural selection.
    Again, prove it.

    Yes , things have evolved over the years, the Model T to the Lamborghini, the Tiger Moth to the Space shuttle. Could’nt help myself.


  25. Not to further confuse ac, but TIME means NOTHING to BBE. Whether a process was done in a day or in a billion years is not a factor for a being who operaties OUTSIDE of the sphere of time.

    ac@bushie

    am i the one confused or are you finally beginning to understand the concept of time in its true form. all things required TIME to exist TIME is all about ORDER and ORDER requires Time the BIBLE says that GOD is a God of ORDER which means that without Time Gods creation would have not been perfected. for what it is worth Time is the major Force and cause that brought everything into being


  26. hey bushie let me cut to the chase the GOD that you worshipped is in other words TIME in all its royal splendor, just look at the similarties and the adjectives used to describe an invisible god and the creation and they all have one thing in Common that is TIME. mortal man is too proud and boastful to give where credit is due but would pretend that theories of god is supernatural and only the bibilcal accounts are true


  27. EVOLUTION: the FOSSILS STILL say NO!
    “So God CREATED great sea creatures and EVERY living thing that MOVES, with which the waters abounded, according to their KIND*, and EVERY winged bird according to ITS KIND…(Gen. 1:21 Emphasis added)

    The Creation narrative account in Genesis, IS* emphatically supported thousands of years AFTER the FACT, by literally MILLIONS of FOSSIL finds, ALL of which, each and every time they are discovered, no matter where on earth, or in the sea, each and every time, regardless of the ‘species’ that ALL appear ABRUPTLY* that IS* fully and completely FORMED, exactly as they were Created in the first pl;ace, by Almighty God.

    Life Emerged on Earth Suddenly and in Complex Forms

    When terrestrial strata and the fossil record are examined, it is to be seen that all living organisms appeared simultaneously. The oldest stratum of the earth in which fossils of living creatures have been found is that of the Cambrian, which has an estimated age of 500-550 million years.

    The living creatures found in the strata belonging to the Cambrian period emerged all of a sudden in the fossil record-there are no pre-existing ancestors. The fossils found in Cambrian rocks belonged to snails, trilobites, sponges, earthworms, jellyfish, sea hedgehogs, and other complex invertebrates. This wide mosaic of living organisms made up of such a great number of complex creatures emerged so suddenly that this miraculous event is referred to as the “Cambrian Explosion” in geological literature.

    Most of the creatures in this layer have complex systems have complex systems and advanced structures, such as eyes, gills, and circulatory systems, exactly the same as those in modern specimens. For instance, the double-lensed, combed eye structure of trilobites is a wonder of creation. David Raup, a professor of geology in Harvard, Rochester, and Chicago Universities, says: “the trilobites 450 million years ago used an optimal design which would require a well trained and imaginative optical engineer to develop today”.28

    These complex invertebrates emerged suddenly and completely without having any link or any transitional form between them and the unicellular organisms, which were the only life forms on earth prior to them.

    The fossil record proves that transitional forms never existed, no evolution took place and all species have been created separately in a perfect form.

    Richard Monastersky, a science journalist at Science News, one of the popular publications of evolutionist literature, states the following about the “Cambrian Explosion”, which is a deathtrap for evolutionary theory:

    A half-billion years ago, the remarkably complex forms of animals we see today suddenly appeared. This moment, right at the start of Earth’s Cambrian Period, some 550 million years ago, marks the evolutionary explosion that filled the seas with the earth’s first complex creatures. …the large animal phyla of today were present already in the early Cambrian …and they were as distinct from each other as they are today.29

    Deeper investigation into the Cambrian Explosion shows what a great dilemma it creates for the theory of evolution. Recent findings indicate that almost all phyla, the most basic animal divisions, emerged abruptly in the Cambrian period. An article published in Science magazine in 2001 says: “The beginning of the Cambrian period, some 545 million years ago, saw the sudden appearance in the fossil record of almost all the main types of animals (phyla) that still dominate the biota today”.30 The same article notes that for such complex and distinct living groups to be explained according to the theory of evolution, very rich fossil beds showing a gradual developmental process should have been found, but this has not yet proved possible:

    This differential evolution and dispersal, too, must have required a previous history of the group for which there is no fossil record.31

    How the earth came to overflow with such a great number of animal species all of a sudden, and how these distinct types of species with no common ancestors could have emerged, is a question that remains unanswered by evolutionists. The Oxford University zoologist Richard Dawkins, one of the foremost advocates of evolutionist thought in the world, comments on this reality that undermines the very foundation of all the arguments he has been defending:

    For example the Cambrian strata of rocks… are the oldest ones in which we find most of the major invertebrate groups. And we find many of them already in an advanced state of evolution, the very first time they appear. It is as though they were just planted there, without any evolutionary history.32

    THE EYE OF THE TRILOBITE

    The trilobites that appeared in the Cambrian period all of a sudden have an extremely complex eye structure. Consisting of millions of honeycomb-shaped tiny particles and a double-lens system, this eye “has an optimal design which would require a well-trained and imaginative optical engineer to develop today” in the words of David Raup, a professor of geology.

    This eye emerged 530 million years ago in a perfect state. No doubt, the sudden appearance of such a wondrous design cannot be explained by evolution and it proves the actuality of creation.

    Moreover, the honeycomb eye structure of the trilobite has survived to our own day without a single change. Some insects such as bees and dragon flies have the same eye structure as did the trilobite.* This situation disproves the evolutionary thesis that living things evolved progressively from the primitive to the complex.


  28. Let’s try agreeing with Zoe so he goes far away
    The world is going to end this year before Christmas
    and Zoe is going to go to heaven unlike you bu heathens and pagans and ignorant fools*


  29. @ Zoe | October 1, 2012 at 8:27 AM |
    “EVOLUTION: the FOSSILS STILL say NO”
    “The oldest stratum of the earth in which fossils of living creatures have been found is that of the Cambrian, which has an estimated age of 500-550 million years. ”

    But Zoe, how you arrived at the big numbers? 550 million years ago????

    We were of the view that your god created everything in the Universe in 6 days about 8000 ago.
    Are you a pathological intellectual liar or is you god that stupid as to fall asleep on the 7th day and never woke up for 4 billion years?

    Which is it? Is the Earth less than 10,000 years or is it nearly as old as the Sun, its Creator?


  30. Yeah bushie because time have been good to me i have ample time supported by youth engery and an abundance of exhuberancy which i do not take for granted knowing that at some point and time it can be gone so as i go through this journey called life i am most grateful that time would chronicle and record all that i have done hopefully most of what be recorded would be good and something others could learn from. BTW i gave you homewrk pay much attention i hate to fail YOU


  31. Zoe you and cut and paste all you like the basic foundation for life consistent of light heat and water and solid or liqid natter can be formed by all threevwhen put tigether the theory or concept of a divine creator is mans imagination relying on his intelligence to prove the unknown rather than accept the scientific findings given which proves the obvious and the question of who created god would always be ignore by creationist and one for which they have no answer making their theories flawed.


  32. @BAFBFP & Millertheannuitant

    We saw this documentary for the first time last night. We had to watch it twice and was up all night and spent all day today trying to unearth information about this theory. A theory that postulates that a branch of our distance ancestors evolved in water. This documentary present ‘evidence’, others say proof that mermaids are real and evolved from our apelike ancestors. Of course, this would of happened hundreds of millions of years after the apes themselves and us evolved from sea creatures. We are especially interested in having you, being the most intelligent people on this blog, watch this and give us an opinion.


  33. Should this work withstand scientific scrutiny it represents an astonishing finding and Zoe will be prepared to give us the necessary permission to eliminate Christianity forever for the fraud it is.


  34. It seems that Saudi Arabia has the most male homosexuals in the world. How else can one explain so much anti-woman attitudes in that society? Imagine IKEA just had to explain why its catalogues in Saudi Arabia were airbrushed to remove women and to be replaced with images of men. The catalogues are identical in every respect to those displayed in Europe and elsewhere except that the female advertisers have been replaced by men. Men in Saudi Arabia even seek ladies knickers. WTF kind of eunuch filled society is that?
    Not even Mohammed would tolerate such crap being meted out to his six or so daughters 1400 or so years ago.


  35. miller
    the basis in those parts of the world are
    men are perverts and woman are kept away from them as they are only interested in sex,

    which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy as that’s all they do when they get the chance


  36. @NNuki!

    “The oldest stratum of the earth in which fossils of living creatures have been found is that of the Cambrian, which has an estimated age of 500-550 million years. ”

    “But Zoe, how you arrived at the big numbers? 550 million years ago????

    Don’t be stupid Nnuki/Ralian, Creation Scientests, usually quote these unrealistic, fictional absurd evolutionary numbers, that has no reference to sound scientific FACTS, as they are soundly WIPPING these Evo-Mat pseudo scientest! Understand Nnuki! Or don’t you!?


  37. @Pachmama, Keep grasping at straws man, in hopes of these Evo Mat fradulent scientest, mixing a few science facts with an UTTER MAZE of fictional LIES, to support DEAD END Darwiniaism!

    On Animal Planet, Aquatic Apes, a/k/a Mermaids
    Evolution News & Views May 30, 2012 11:27 AM | Permalink

    We watched a 90-minute documentary on Animal Planet last night (recorded from the day before) called Mermaids: The Body Found, about a team of scientists with forensic evidence of “mermaids” (aquatic apes that split from our line some 7 million years ago).

    The documentary interviews scientists, plays audio recordings of anomalous sounds from oceanographic scientists, shows suspicious videotape, some artifacts that look like tools, even evidence of a purported government cover-up. It also includes hearty portions of CGI animation of what the mermaids would look like, etc.

    In other words, a typical documentary from a Discovery Channel-affiliated network. After a few minutes, however, we realized that the entire thing must be fictional — that is, more fictional than the typical “this is just what they were like millions of years ago” stuff you see on TV documentaries. Yet at no point was there any disclaimer saying it was a fake documentary. In fact, the “scientists” interviewed were supposedly from real places like the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the University of Witwatersrand, South Africa. The Animal Planet website lists it straight-forwardedly on the schedule.

    Snopes lists the program as a hoax, but provides no link in which Animal Planet or an official website explains that it is fictional.

    The film website takes you to a page that says it has been seized by the Department of Homeland Security. Hey, wouldn’t that be illegal?

    In case this isn’t confusing enough already, the press release includes links that would lead you to believe these people think the Aquatic Ape theory deserves serious consideration. It sort of explains that it is a “stunt” and “science fiction” but also seems to say that the documentary is based on facts and responsible hypothesizing, or something like that.

    Well, all too often we see articles in biology journals that mix a few facts with a lot of wild evolutionary speculation. You get the feeling that the makers of Mermaids: The Body Found see themselves as doing something akin to what the authors of such articles are doing. After all, the Aquatic Ape theory was first proposed in New Scientist in 1960! At least the Animal Planet folks recognize (some of) the frankly fictional aspects of their story.

    In any event, we’re left with the vague feeling that “scientific” culture has crossed a threshold here, in which the distinction between fact and fiction, one might say between sanity and insanity, so long violated in science documentaries involving origins, is now being intentionally blurred.


  38. Pacha

    Thnx for the comp, I blush (if only I knew how to ..ha ha ha) but you really have to look elsewhere to find the truly bright ones. If there was no spell check on this site you would quickly be on to me … HA HA HA.

    This mermaid thing is all interesting and stuff but I see it as nothing more than entertainment, as I believe the producers may have intended. Good graphics though … Nice try .. HA HA HA


  39. These responses are more political than scientific. They unfairly characterize the work of these scientists without providing a sustainable counter-narrative. On the the one hand our friend BAFBFP punted to avoid the expected criticism from the mind-guard Zoe. And Zoe presented an unscientific and canned response. Neither one of you exhibited the courage to deal with the hard facts as presented or separate evidence from theory. As scientist we are schooled to be skeptical but not hypocritical. We consider that there is enough physical evidence, eye witness testimony, corroborating evidence, other historical evidence that suggest these finding could be confirmed by additional investigations. Hail the Majesty of science!

    Zoe, it is only the religious who grasp at straws. As scientists we don’t need to. We have well established procedures by with we determine what is true and what is false. What you think of as truth is merely based on belief. And you have no third party or scientific means by which you can determine truth or by which an independent arbiter can verify your findings. And that stupid book is totally irrelevant. Now, who is grasping at straws? Every day science finds new specie. Why it is impossible that these scientists are right? If scientists were not ready to consider other possibilities you would still be preaching that the earth was flat and was the centre of the universe. On these matters you people have no credibility at all. How many times do the god idiots have to be wrong before we start burning them and their book? And we can never be guided by you and your dirty religious beliefs. In fact, we would prefer to take the opposite view as a matter of course. You idiots were wrong then and will be wrong in the future about the return of jesus and the end times. Only God (Science) can save us.


  40. Pacha fault me if I am wrong but does this script not appear in the movie somewhere at the end

    “though certain events in this film are fictional navy sonar tests have been directly implicated in whale beachings “The Bloop” is a real phenomenon
    there is still debate about what it may be none of the institutions or agencies that appear in the film are affiliated or associated with it in any way, nor have they approved its contents any similarities in the film to actual persons
    living or dead is entirely coincidental”

    I just did a google on Dr Rodney Webster University of South Florida
    and there was nothing. I am pretty sure the same would be the case for Dr. Rebecca Davis, Dr. Paul Robertson and so on …

    As for me, I dispute nothing, I just need something to go on and this flick is NOT it …


  41. @ BAFBFP
    I don’t know how much you know about academia. However, if NOAA hires scientists in the first place they must a PhD. Secondly, they work, while working at NOAA is the property of that US government institution. Do you have access to academic journals or peer review articles? We were working with Greenpeace, as an activist, around the time these beached whales were turning up but was not aware of this other story.

    That parts of the documentary or docudrama were reconstructed, what would you expect? The writer had to construct a frame in order to tease out their hypothesis. Nothing happens in isolation. How else are we to recall an historical event? When you go to court and retell an incident, are you not reconstructing the story, at that point in time too? How else would the documentarians tell they story? Do you expect these creatures, to the extent they exist, to play a staring role – to cooperate with the producers? Do you expect the documentarians to telleport back to 7 millions years and find the homonym they suspect to be the direct ancestor and ask them to star in the documentary? How could a man like you not see the hidden and pernicious hand of the US military in this? Is it not plausible that the wicked US military has some kind of sonic weapon to use in the conduct of naval war, given their history? And why would this be implausible? Have you not heard about weapons that the US military uses, or intends to use, to shut down and destroy all electronic communication before invasion and that have a potential to send a country back to the stone age? When they do a play about Barrow do you insist that he comes back from the dead to play his part?

    What are the facts? During the period under consideration dolphins and whales were beaching all over the world. Since then we have not heard any more about anymore beaching of this kind. Third party evidence was etc. etc. Tired don’t want to go on anymore ///////////////


  42. @ Pachamama | October 2, 2012 at 11:07 AM |

    I am following you closely in your rebuttal to Zoe and BAF.

    I believe that life first started in the seas that make up almost 70% of this watery planet.
    I am always intrigued about the ability of a baby to survive in a balloon of water in its mother’s womb in whichever mammalian specie (except perhaps the platypus).
    I believe that there are life forms in the oceans that man has not yet seen or researched. Whatever is on land I believe can be found in the seas or in the oceans.

    I am also of the view that both the whale and dolphin have some spiritual affinity to humans and other humanoids and similar connections to the ‘Source’. Dolphins and whales are so telepathically attuned that they would be the first to pick up signals from outer space. The sonar “bombs” developed by the Navy would intercept and interrupt the natural sonar systems of these sophisticated life forms and have the same deafening effect leading to brain damage and implosion of inner organs vital to life as if a nuclear bomb is dropped near a village in some African country or tropical island. It would be interesting if similar effects have been replicated with birds and bats and to see the fall out on the electronic navigational systems of aircraft and satellite systems.

    Man must learn that we are all connected to one Spirit Source and if one is destroyed or severely damaged the whole link is weakened until mended by Nature. The great barrier reef off Australia is telling us that something big is happening to threaten our existence and we better take notice if the human specie is going to make it in the long run in our present humanoid form. Maybe a visit from the Borg might just be in time to save our technologically sorry souls from self destruction (LOL!!!).


  43. Pacha

    The beachings are indisputable. The Sonic Weapon is plausable and the US’s tradition of secrecy as to how it spends the trillions of dollars in defense research deserves every accusation of wrong doing and suspicion that it attracts. The “Bloop” phenomena is documented so there is no disagreement between us. But the flick is a docudrama with fictitious characters to advance the idea of this sea dwelling ape possibility. I believe fossil records, I am even sweet on cave drawings, but if you will reason with me for a moment, these sea dwelling apes, with their advanced intelligence and reverse thumbs should have had a far better chance at surviving than their dolphin pets and there really is NO evidence that they have. Man where ever he is located tries to establish himself as the master in the his environment, the king of the jungle. These sea-apes should surely have been on the road to doing the same thing … but where is the evidence …? Scientific conjecture is fine, interesting hell yes, but that is all that it is …


  44. @pachamama

    Last year a festering half of a sea creature washed up on a beach in Barbados. Marine biologists could not identify it. I think it may have been the bottom half of your creature in the documentary. Lets us say the top half was eaten by a great white! I dont recall if it has a fluke like what is shown in the story.

    Check the Nation newspaper. That is where I read the story, and they carried a picture.


  45. BAFBFP
    Well. right half way and wrong half way. Don’t get too locked into fossil records, in this case, the researcher are presenting the actual dead body of a prehistoric mammal alive today, as evidence. They are arguing that the US government has others. They are postulating that there is an actual video of a live mermaid man as taken by a teenage boy, who has no axe to grind. This same boy has drawn a picture of the mammal. The researchers also reconstructed the shape of the mermaid from a mangled body. You talk about cave drawings. How do you account for the mermaid as emerging in several cultures that had no connection with each other? The folk tradition is a valuable source of evidence for professional researchers.

    It is a mischaracterization to consider the mermaid mammals as apes any longer. That is the nature of evolution. Just like we are no longer considered apes. Ape generally can’t live underwater. These are sea mammals. You want to ignore what evidence was presented. But remember, evidence is not proof. Proof can only be when other scientists have conducted other studies to reject, fail to reject or accept the findings of these experts. But to reject the evidence as presented from researchers from the leading ocean and atmospheric agency in the world is ill-advised. We think these finding are very interesting and look forward to other peer reviewed work on this issue. Should these researchers be proven right a lot of the science books will have to be rewritten. This will not be the first time. Please remember that sometimes you don’t get the full answer initially. Other researchers may have to build on this work. Our intellectual father, when he propose the theory of evolution was not embraced in the beginning. But now everything around us is built on his work.


  46. @ BAFBFP

    By the way we think that the universes are to big for there not be life elsewhere. In the absence of proof/evidence that will be our bet.


  47. Summary of Scientific Evidence for Creation (Part I & II)
    by Duane Gish, Ph.D.

    This impact pamphlet was written by a scientist, and a science educator, and reviewed by an attorney, to provide a brief summary of the scientific evidence supporting creation. The text materials and references listed at the end together give a more thorough discussion of this scientific evidence.

    Introduction

    Public schools in many localities are teaching two scientific models – the creation model and the evolution model of the origin of the universe, of life, and of man. There is apparent scientific evidence for creation, which is summarized in this pamphlet, just as there is apparent scientific evidence for evolution. The purpose of this pamphlet is to summarize the evidence that shows that:

    “The creation model is at least as scientific as the evolution model, and is at least as nonreligious as the evolution model.”

    This scientific evidence for both models can be taught in public schools without any mention of religious doctrine, whether the Bible or the Humanist Manifesto. There are text materials and teacher handbooks that have been prepared for a fair presentation of both models, creation and evolution. There are also seminars and audiovisuals for training teachers to offer both models of origins.

    “This scientific evidence both for creation and for evolution can and must be taught without any religious doctrine, whether the Bible or the Humanist Manifesto.”

    “Creation-science proponents want public schools to teach all the scientific data, censoring none, but do not want any religious doctrine to be brought into science classrooms.”

    Definitions of the Creation Model and the Evolution Model

    The scientific model of creation, in summary, includes the scientific evidence for a sudden creation of complex and diversified kinds of life, with systematic gaps persisting between different kinds and with genetic variation occurring within each kind since that time. The scientific model of evolution, in summary, includes the scientific evidence for a gradual emergence of present life kinds over aeons of time, with emergence of complex and diversified kinds of life from simpler kinds and ultimately from nonliving matter. The creation model questions vertical evolution, which is the emergence of complex from simple and change between kinds, but it does not challenge what is often called horizontal evolution or microevolution, which creationists call genetic variation or species or subspecies formation within created kinds. The following chart lists seven aspects of the scientific model of creation and of the scientific model of evolution:

    The creation model includes the scientific evidence and the related inferences suggesting that: The evolution model includes the scientific evidence and the related inferences suggesting that:

    I. The universe and the Solar system were suddenly created. I. The universe and the solar system emerged by naturalistic processes.
    II. Life was suddenly created. II. Life emerged from nonlife by naturalistic processes.

    III. All present living kinds of animals and plants have remained fixed since creation, other than extinctions, and genetic variation in originally created kinds has only occurred within narrow limits. III. All present kinds emerged from simpler earlier kinds, so that single-celled organisms evolved into invertebrates, then vertebrates, then amphibians, then reptiles, then mammals, then primates, including man.
    IV. Mutation and natural selection are insufficient to have brought about any emergence of present living kinds from a simple primordial organism. IV. Mutation and natural selection have brought about the emergence of present complex kinds from a simple primordial organism.

    V. Man and apes have a separate ancestry. V. Man and apes emerged from a common ancestor.

    VI. The earth’s geologic features appear to have been fashioned largely by rapid, catastrophic processes that affected the earth on a global and regional scale (catastrophism). VI. The earth’s geologic features were fashioned largely by slow, gradual processes, with infrequent catastrophic events restricted to a local scale (uniformitarianism).

    VII. The inception of the earth and of living kinds may have been relatively recent. VII. The inception of the earth and then of life must have occurred several billion years ago.


  48. @ Zoe
    What crap. You are a slavish follower of the bankrupted, racist, north American ignorance of your evangelical leaders who push this bullshit in American schools. These are the people, we know them well, who believe black people should still be enslaved. Those anti-intellectual rabidly racist Americans whose names we called before believe that a black man should not be president. That a jack ass like you could be following these people in an enlightenment age suggest that you have a slavish mentality and really love your white slave masters. For this alone neither you nor your god will ever get our respect


  49. Pacha

    No grave sorry … if the choice was mine and intellectual furnace would be much appreciated … My friend, with respect, the producers admitted that much of the content in the video was fictitious and that “any similarities in the film to actual persons living or dead is entirely coincidental”. This allows me to dismiss it as a source of information for a meaningful discussion on anything other than what is possible/plausible …! And that I am very prepared to do.

    Look, if these mammals are thriving there would have been discovered years ago. The film said that two new species of whales were discovered in the last ten years, highly unlikely but I did NOT spend the time to verify, I really do not think that much of the video … Sorry Pacha.

    As to whether there is life else where in a virtually infinitely large universe, mathematically the answer is a definitive yes. As to the possibility of two types of life forms contacting each other across the universe, the answer would have to be NO barring the existence of some temporal/spacial phenomenon that we are yet to discover.

    As to the existence of a BBE (1) that sees me as important to its plan (2) is simply a matter of faith that I DO NOT POSSESS …!


  50. @ Pachamama
    If you are so sold on this mermaid tale you must be downright stricken with the Area 51 saga…..

    @ BAFBFP
    One thing about you is your willingness to doubt (and if necessary cuss) any and every fella…friend and foe …. LOL


  51. @ Bush Tea

    Your remark is unclear to us. Areas 51 was secret military development base from the Cold War days. Today it it common knowledge that all types of modern and sophisticated aircraft were developed and are still being developed there. That the CIA would use a UFO fiction as a cover story is also know. What was your point? We deal only with peer reviewed evidence and try to give it a relative weight. Belief we leave for others.


  52. @ Pachamama
    Our world is such a large, mysterious, intriguing, and wonderful place that Bushie would be completely unsurprised if mermaids actually exist(ed); if little green space aliens operate flying saucers; and if the Bermuda Triangle is actualy a gateway to another dimension.

    At the same time our “academic giants” are so unscrupulous, dishonest and fake- that peer review means very little to the bushman.

    If therefore, even a dozen intact skeletons of mermaids were discovered right next to ten green alien bodies near the Bermuda triangle, this bushman would see no relevance to the question of the origin of life.

    Hell, Bushie subscribes to the theory that our universe may merely be an atom in a much grander scheme of things at another level altogether.

    The bottom line is that nothing with which we are familiar – even remotely suggests that it is possible for such complex, ordered, delicately balanced, interdependent systems (as is our world) to evolve randomly and without intelligent guidance and direction.

    Hell, if someone were to suggest that the boardwalk could have evolved through natural processes we would take them straight to the Mental….

    Complex design REQUIRES advanced engineering, and design at the level of our world DEMANDS and REQUIRES that there be BIG BOSS ENGINEERS (BBE)


  53. …that don’ give one shite ’bout you Bushman … So all of this faith thing might merely be a manifestation of your BIG ego … but we all need to cope so I will not begrudge you your moment in time …


  54. BAFBFP
    ….man Tek it easy nuh! Down taws nuh brush…!

    How you get to the point of whether BBE “give a Shoite ‘ bout the Bushman” or not…? We Just get pass the point where we are agreed that the FACT of complex, intelligent, high level design and construction leads us to deduce that there MUST OF NECESSITY be high level engineering somewhere in the background.

    The next moot must be something like… “This level of engineering MUST be of a much higher level than our best human engineers, therefore we can take for granted that BBE must be AT LEAST as intelligent as MME and GP.”
    …..can we take that as a given?

    If yes, then we can expect that there is sound LOGIC to all that has been done, as well as a logical and sane REASON behind the whole exercise…..WHICH MUST MAKE LOGICAL SENSE.

    …..are you with Bushie BAFBFP or are you off on one of your FOREX tangents again…?


  55. Pachamama | October 2, 2012 at 1:53 PM | @ Zoe

    “What crap. You are a slavish follower of the bankrupted, racist, north American ignorance of your evangelical leaders who push this bullshit in American schools. These are the people, we know them well, who believe black people should still be enslaved. Those anti-intellectual rabidly racist Americans whose names we called before believe that a black man should not be president. That a jack ass like you could be following these people in an enlightenment age suggest that you have a slavish mentality and really love your white slave masters. For this alone neither you nor your god will ever get our respect”

    Mama-Mama, What a sorry, rampant, rabid, RANCID MESS you are, demonstrated IN your above! What the fish-cakes has any of the bovine excrement spued forth by your ENDARKENED intellect to do with the subject matter at hand?

    Pachmama et al of his diatribal ilk, who seek with vengeance to write Almighty God out of the universe He* Created* and sustains*; then propogate their TRUE agenda, as evolutionary athiests do, WHICH IS* in fact, a PHILOSOPHICAL IDEOLOGY, (NOT science AT ALL!) of rampant, ATHEISM, couched, veneered, and convoluted in a MAZE of pseudo-scientific JARGON, which then contiues to deceive many, who simply have NOTtaken the time to examine the true FACTS, the preponderance of which, oberwhelmingly support and CONFIRM the creationist model, as outlined in His Word, the Bible in Genesis 1 and 2.


  56. As Professor Marvin L. Lubenow, who has researched the fossil issue for 25 years and frequently speaks and writes to defend the Creationist position, states: ” The myth in the mind of the public is that the human fossil material is readily available and is thoroughly studied by all who teach and write on the subject. The truth is that paleonanthropology is in the awkward position of being a science that IS* at least one step removed from the very material upon which it claims to base it findings.” (BONES OF CONTENTION. a Creationist Assessment of Human Fossils, p. 17, Emphasis added).

    Again, Prof Lubenow writes: “Speaking at an annual convention of the American Association for the Advancement of science (AAAS) in San Francisco, astronomer Carl Sagan ( Cornell university) explained how science works.

    “The most fundamental axioms and conclusions may be challenged” and the prevailing hypothesis “must survive confrontation with observation.” “Appeals to Authority” he said, “are impermissible”, and “experiments must be reproducible.” This, of course, is the concept of science which the general public has.”

    Lebenow, then correctly asserts: “Sagan’s comments give us an insight into how he, and evolutionists like him work. He gives LIP service to the accepted methodology of science. However, when presenting his views on the evolution of everything, he gives the public a FREEWHEELING FANTASY in which one CANNOT seperate science from acience FICTION*, the result is that all of it is accepted as science…Hence, the public is often fed a diet of PHILOSOPHY under the guise of science.”

    The fact of the matter IS*, that The Fossile Record, from Microorganisms
    to Fish, from Fish to Reptiles, The Origin of Mammals, and The Origin of Man, are ALL DESTITUTE, DEVOID of any true factual support for this VILE, dispicable, and contemptible theory of evolution.

    The blatant LIE of evolution IS* hogwash, and when the window dressing and baloney is stripped AWAY, every man-jack will know that evolutionary/athiestic materialism masquerades under the guise of science, counterfeit, bogus science.


  57. Bush

    I am concerned with only one thing and that is that my life will be too short … too short to do half of the things that I would luv to accomplish and too short to try and wrap my brain around issues that are far too complex even for the greatest minds in existence. If you deduced truths that have allowed you to arrive at a place that you are comfortable with, man I am happy for you. But this quest of answering the “What is it” followed by the “Why” is so beyond me that I simply have no interest in it at all at all at all ….!

    Life too damned short and you can’ tek all dah knowledge with you to the grave …


  58. @David, I have taken due note of the specific words choosen by Pachamama, as quoted below, in the concluding sentence, “How many times do the god-idiots have to be wrong before WE START BURNING* THEM* AND THEIR BOOK?” Emphasis added.

    This IS* a clear INTENT to VIOLENCE and implied DEATH, to Christians, who exercise their RIGHT to express their convictions. David, does this not bring to mind, exactly, what Hopi also expressly stated, on BU a while back. And who repeadtly, challenged YOU, to deal with such INTENT TO VIOLENCE against Christians and the Church buildings, as being deadly wrong for BU NOT to censor such venomous hatred?! Do you remember David? it IS now happening again!

    Pachamama, I politely and respecfully, request a RETRACTION from you for such implied violent intent against me, and other Christians, failing which I will consult legal advice, and the appropriate authorities will be notified accordingly.

    Pachamama Oct 2, 2012 @ 7:05AM

    “Zoe, it is only the religious who grasp at straws. As scientists we don’t need to. We have well established procedures by with we determine what is true and what is false. What you think of as truth is merely based on belief. And you have no third party or scientific means by which you can determine truth or by which an independent arbiter can verify your findings. And that stupid book is totally irrelevant. Now, who is grasping at straws? Every day science finds new specie. Why it is impossible that these scientists are right? If scientists were not ready to consider other possibilities you would still be preaching that the earth was flat and was the centre of the universe. On these matters you people have no credibility at all. How many times do the god idiots have to be wrong before WE START BURNING THEM AND THEIR BOOK?” Emphasis added.


  59. Life too damned short and you can’ tek all dah knowledge with you to the grave …
    ac @BAF

    oh yes we do. only if man had the keys to unearthing all the valuable knoweldge the dead took with them to the grave.


    • @Zoe

      You are correct that Pacha’s could have better expressed himself. His reference is general and in the context although distasteful he has the right to express himself.


  60. “…..this quest of answering the “What is it” followed by the “Why” is so beyond me that I simply have no interest in it at all at all at all ….!”
    ***************

    Sorry that you choose to see it that way BAFBFP.
    Surely you can see that it is ONLY by answering precisely those questions that you can even determine what are those “important things” that you should spend your SHORT life doing.

    Bushie can also assure you that this has absolutely NOTHING to do with having a brilliant mind. Indeed, the ability to understand may be inversely proportional to the “brilliance of one’s mind”.
    LOL ….else Bushie would be in the dark….

    However if you think that it makes more sense to spend you short time in this life experience accumulating FOREX,- be Bushie’s guest.


  61. zoe who are being overly sensitive by pacha remarks and have construed the comments to be an attack on you instead of concentrating on the context and the time and era which he /she was refering to


  62. Zoe

    Yah idiot …”legal advice, and the appropriate authorities will be notified accordingly” fa wah, … a handle …? Yah pussy wake up man. In case yah sober I want you to know that I giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you are not. HA HA HA … LEGAL ADVICE …. MURDA … LARD COME FAH WORL’ DO … HA HA HA


  63. @ BAFBFP
    Not Bushie and ac bozie, she married to a sue – machine. Those fellows can sue the very shirt off yuh back.

    @ Zoe who said to Pachamama
    “Mama-Mama, What a sorry, rampant, rabid, RANCID MESS you are, demonstrated IN your above! What the fish-cakes has any of the bovine excrement spued forth by your ENDARKENED intellect to do with the subject matter at hand?”
    *****************

    You could really hush up. Few persons on this blog are more abusive than you… You have condemned more BU family to a paternal relationship with the devil than Pachamama could burn.

    LOL the only way you could make any progress with such legal action would be in our courts – before the lady Judge who featured in tales from the court IV.
    Ha Ha ha….Case Number 34621 Zoe versus Pachamama and BAFBFP first defendants with BU David as second defendant and Millertheanunnaki as an accessory after the fact.


  64. @David.

    “You are correct that Pacha’s could have better expressed himself. His reference is general and in the context although distasteful he has the right to express himself.”

    David, You apparently, don’t understand the distinction, difference between, “…the right to express himself.” Free speech, which is NOT* license to threaten with voilent intent, to cause harm, even death!

    That is an entirely different matter; which you just do not seem to understand. It is simply not civil, and is not tolerated in the wider context of journalism, and by extension responsible Blogs.

    You are, therefore, an enabler, a facilatator of violent HATE speech, and the blatant expression thereof!


  65. Quoting God’s Word re Damnation of those who reject His Mercy, Love, Grace and forgiveness; it IS* His Word, that damns them NOT me.

    To equate this with the threat of burning Christians, and God’s Word, is foolishness, and folly, but, then again, what else can be expected from an ‘Obeah’ man!


  66. @ Zoe
    Even in your above you cannot avoid being nasty 🙂
    Name another book that speaks more of burning people than the bible….
    If you can quote it to be nasty to unbelievers, why should Pachamama not quote it about burning Christians?
    ….get a life Zoe.


  67. @ Zoe

    BAFBFP was right about you. If we are willing to challenge your god and the lie he is, do you think we are afraid of you, the police or anybody in Barbados or elsewhere? Or afraid to die! I feel sorry for you. Do you think that people like us who are bold enough to take on the devils who control you could be made to fear minions or apologize for any opinion however distasteful. We wish you well with that.


  68. @Zoe

    On reading other posting we think that it is fit and proper to say that again. Because of the the wickedness christians have wrought on the earth CHRISTIANS AND ALL THEY BOOKS SHOULD BE BURNT


  69. Nature has provided us with the “sweet fruits” of life they are healthy and good for the soul i suggest everyone grab a few names comes to mind Patience. Understanding. Kindness. ZOE and those in the waring spirit go grab a few good for the soul.


  70. To ALL of the BU ‘Bildge Pumpers’ who are Satanically, and Demonically controlled, and who do the bidding, for their ‘father’ the FATHER of ALL LIES, SATAN, who’s END will be in THE LAKE OF FIRE, along with his* minions and parasites, I FEAR NONE OF YOU, individually, or collectively, NONE OF YOU, being there DONE THAT, and have ALWAYS being victorious IN JESUS Omnipotent NAME; as Almighty God, and ONE man is a MAJORITY!

    Come on Pachamama, and ALL other God-HATERS, come on, and face the challenge of intellectual scientific honesty, of which you ALL are strangers, and get back to the subject matter at hand,
    Evolution vs Creation.

    Come on Pachamama, I challenge you to give scientific, empirical EVIDENCE, NOT pseudo-jargonized FALSITY, lies, in support of evolution, bring it on man, bring it on, from Microorganism, through to Man, to refute the FACTS and evidence of of Creation?

    Bring it on Mama-Mama, bring it on!


  71. Evolution is Religion — Not Science

    “In no way does the idea of particles-to-people evolution meet the long-accepted criteria of a scientific theory. There are no such evolutionary transitions that have ever been observed in the fossil record of the past; and the universal law of entropy seems to make it impossible on any significant scale.”

    “Evolutionists claim that evolution is a scientific fact, but they almost always lose scientific debates with creationist scientists. Accordingly, most evolutionists now decline opportunities for scientific debates, preferring instead to make unilateral attacks on creationists.”

    “Scientists should refuse formal debates because they do more harm than good, but scientists still need to counter the creationist message.20
    The question is, just why do they need to counter the creationist message? Why are they so adamantly committed to anti-creationism?”

    “The fact is that evolutionists believe in evolution because they want to. It is their desire at all costs to explain the origin of everything without a Creator. Evolutionism is thus intrinsically an atheistic religion. Some may prefer to call it humanism, and “new age” evolutionists place it in the context of some form of pantheism, but they all amount to the same thing. Whether atheism or humanism (or even pantheism), the purpose is to eliminate a personal God from any active role in the origin of the universe and all its components, including man.”

    “The core of the humanistic philosophy is naturalism — the proposition that the natural world proceeds according to its own internal dynamics, without divine or supernatural control or guidance, and that we human beings are creations of that process. It is instructive to recall that the philosophers of the early humanistic movement debated as to which term more adequately described their position: humanism or naturalism. The two concepts are complementary and inseparable.”

    “Since both naturalism and humanism exclude God from science or any other active function in the creation or maintenance of life and the universe in general, it is very obvious that their position is nothing but atheism. And atheism, no less than theism, is a religion! Even doctrinaire-atheistic evolutionist Richard Dawkins admits that atheism cannot be proved to be true.”

    “Of course we can’t prove that there isn’t a God.”

    “Therefore, they must believe it, and that makes it a religion.”

    “The atheistic nature of evolution is not only admitted, but insisted upon by most of the leaders of evolutionary thought. Ernst Mayr, for example, says that:”

    “Darwinism rejects all supernatural phenomena and causations.
    A professor in the Department of Biology at Kansas State University says:”

    “Even if all the data point to an intelligent designer, such a hypothesis is excluded from science because it is not naturalistic.”

    “It is well known by almost everyone in the scientific world today that such influential evolutionists as Stephen Jay Gould and Edward Wilson of Harvard, Richard Dawkins of England, William Provine of Cornell, and numerous other evolutionary spokesmen are dogmatic atheists. Eminent scientific philosopher and ardent Darwinian atheist Michael Ruse has even acknowledged that evolution is their religion!”

    “Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion — a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality . . . . Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today.”

    “Another way of saying “religion” is “worldview,” the whole of reality. The evolutionary worldview applies not only to the evolution of life, but even to that of the entire universe. In the realm of cosmic evolution, our naturalistic scientists depart even further from experimental science than life scientists do, manufacturing a variety of evolutionary cosmologies from esoteric mathematics and metaphysical speculation. Socialist Jeremy Rifkin has commented on this remarkable game.”

    “Cosmologies are made up of small snippets of physical reality that have been remodeled by society into vast cosmic deceptions.”

    “They must believe in evolution, therefore, in spite of all the evidence, not because of it. And speaking of deceptions, note the following remarkable statement.”

    NOTE the following statement carefully, as it truely REFLECTS the ideological DISHONESTY, and fraudulent agenda of Evolutionists/Atheists!

    “We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, . . . in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated commitment to materialism. . . . we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, FOR WE CANNOT ALLOW A DIVINE FOOT IN THE DOOR.” Emphasis added.

    “The author of this frank statement is Richard Lewontin of Harvard. Since evolution is not a laboratory science, there is no way to test its validity, so all sorts of justso stories are contrived to adorn the textbooks. But that doesn’t make them true! An evolutionist reviewing a recent book by another (but more critical) evolutionist, says:”

    “We cannot identify ancestors or “missing links,” and we cannot devise testable theories to explain how particular episodes of evolution came about. Gee is adamant that all the popular stories about how the first amphibians conquered the dry land, how the birds developed wings and feathers for flying, how the dinosaurs went extinct, and how humans evolved from apes are just products of our imagination, driven by prejudices and preconceptions.”

    “A fascinatingly honest admission by a physicist indicates the passionate commitment of establishment scientists to naturalism. Speaking of the trust students naturally place in their highly educated college professors, he says:”

    “And I use that trust to effectively brainwash them. . . . our teaching methods are primarily those of propaganda. We appeal — without demonstration — to evidence that supports our position. We only introduce arguments and evidence that supports the currently accepted theories and omit or gloss over any evidence to the contrary.”

    Intelleutual scientific DISHONESTY to the hilth!


  72. man zoe why dont you leave this evolution creationism thing alone just like husband and wife disagree the same can be said of evolution and creationism fight cuss out each other sometimes can stand each other but continue to live under the same roof for a long time some times they might even divorce and like life sometimes we ought to divorce ourselves from some things that we cannot understand. but in the meanwhile while mortals like us try to figure out this whole diagram creation and evolution live as one unwavering and committed to the laws of nature not really caring what mortal man thinks displaying an attitude of unity something that man ought to duplicate.


  73. As a Buddhist would say
    If you believe in Evolution, believe in Evolution
    If you believe in Creationism, believe in Creationism
    If you believe in Science believe in Science
    If you believe in Religion believe in Religion
    Life is about suffering Zoe


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