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Submitted by Terence Blackett

WASHINGTON โ€” Conservative commentator Glenn Beck and tea party champion Sarah Palin appealed Saturday to a vast, predominantly white crowd on the National Mall to help restore traditional American values and honor Martin Luther King's message. Civil rights leaders who accused the group of hijacking King's legacy held their own rally and march – AP

Yesterday was the 47th anniversary of the historically memorable – I Have A Dream prophetic speech on the Hill* of the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, DC. Words which still move the heart, minds and consciences of men everywhere โ€“ words, worthy of their rightful place in sacred cannon. But let us not be fooled โ€“ like all prophetic utterances, time is still the crucial determinant factor.

In Dr. Kingโ€™s own words โ€“ โ€œWe must be careful at this point not to engage in a superficial optimism or to conclude that the death of a particular evil means that all evil lies dead upon the shore. All progress is precarious, and the solution of one problem brings us face to face with another problem. The Kingdom of God as a universal reality is not yet. But just as we must avoid a superficial optimism, we must also avoid a crippling pessimism. Even though all progress is precarious, within limits real social progress may be made. Although manโ€™s moral pilgrimage may never reach a destination point on this earth, his never-ceasing strivings may bring him closer to the city of righteousnessโ€ฆโ€

On this anniversary of Dr. Kingโ€™s speech, political demigod, FOX News commentator and Tea Party activist Glen Beck and an army of predominantly Caucasian supporters gathered at the said Lincoln Memorial and sought to upstage the legacy of Kingโ€™s prophetic historical window in time by โ€œbilling itself as “restoring honour” to the US and rekindling what Beck and other speakers saw as the spirit of the American Revolution โ€“ family values, low taxation and cutting the Federal deficit.โ€ Beckโ€™s speech was peppered with references to God* and the fact that it was time for American to forge a new direction – โ€œWe have had moments of brilliance and moments of darkness. But this country has spent far too long worried about scars and thinking about the scars and concentrating on the scars.โ€

But what if the โ€œscarsโ€ are still visibly offensive? Can we sell the truth โ€“ in order that we may purchase and accommodate a lie?

Is this the same guy who called Americaโ€™s 1st Black President a racist and someone who hates white people? Where is this โ€œreverse speakโ€ coming from? As Goebbels said – “Tell a lie often enough, people will believe it.”

Aug. 28, 2010 Attendees (Beck's Restoring Honour Rally') were discouraged from bringing political banners, so some wore their sentiments on their shirts instead. Nikki Kahn-The Washington Post

Elitist Caucasian Americans have realized that Martinโ€™s Dream is gaining greater traction while on the other hand, many Blacks due to economic uncertainty in these difficult times are developing and โ€œadopting a fatalistic philosophy stipulating that whatever happens must happen and that all events are determined by necessity.โ€

Dr. King opined in โ€œShattered Dreamsโ€ that โ€œfatalism implies that everything is foreordained and inescapable. People who subscribe to this philosophy succumb to an absolute resignation to that which they consider to be fate and think of themselves as being little more than helpless orphans cast into the terrifying immensity of space. Because they believe that man has no freedom, they seek neither to deliberate nor to make decisions, but rather they wait passively* for external forces to decide for them. They never actively seek to change their circumstances, for they believe that all circumstances, as in Greek tragedies, are controlled by irresistible and foreordained forces. Some fatalists are very religious people who think God as the determiner and controller of destinyโ€ฆโ€

Dr. King also suggests that this view is expressed in a verse of one of our Christian hymns:

Though dark my path and sad my lot,
Let me be still and murmur not,
But breathe the prayer divinely taught,
Thy will be done.

King believes that fatalism purports an appalling conception of God for everything whether good or evil is considered to represent the will of God (even racism). He believes a โ€œhealthy religion rises above the idea that God wills evil. Although God permits evil in order to preserve the freedom of men, He does not cause evil. That which is willed is intended, and the thought that God intend for a child to be born blind or for a man to suffer the ravages of insanity is sheer heresy that pictures God as a devil rather than a loving Fatherโ€ฆโ€

The power within the โ€œSERMON ON THE HILLโ€ destroys the mythology and the paralysing determinism which King concludes that most of us think we are:

But helpless Pieces of the Game He plays
Upon this Chequer-board of Nights & Days
And that we need not trouble about the future, for
The Moving Finger writes: and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a word of it.

Click on the link as a reminder today of how far we have come and how much further we need to goโ€ฆ

Be blessed!!!


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255 responses to “The Long Pilgrimage: Bankrupt Moral Leadership And The Fatalism Of Evil Upon Our Shores – Has Anything Been Learnt Since Dr. Martin Luther King’s Speech – “I Have A Dream"?”


  1. Just slightly OFF-TOPIC* but look at the RELIGIOUS RIGHT’s MAJOR Concerns: MONEY* –


  2. No denying the above video clip cites many facets of fiscal and monetary truth but for Christians the dichotomy between “provision” and Providence* sometimes gets pretty blurred…

    But some may argue that there is sufficient reason given the FED’s Central Bank Gov’s latest declaration:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11146577


  3. NO PROPHET IS ACCEPTED IN HIS OWN COUNTRY OR ELSEWHERE FOR THAT MATTER!!!


  4. @ Terence M. Blackett/ September 2, 2010 at 12:28 PM |

    You wrote:- “NO PROPHET IS ACCEPTED IN HIS OWN COUNTRY OR ELSEWHERE FOR THAT MATTER!!!”
    …………………………………………………………………………………………………………
    Please enlighten me ,Sir. To which prophet are you referring in particular?


  5. @Anon | September 1, 2010 at 11:34 PM |
    Read the text you cite again and see how ignorant you are, Sir.
    Read it again and see thay YOU yourself have not RIGHTLY DIVIDED THE WORD OF TRUTH.
    Note well verse 7
    . For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh

    These deceivers and antichrist FAILED TO CONFESS THAT JESUS CAME IN THE FLESH. They failed to believe in the incarnation of Christ- a major truth in the doctrine of Christ and the doctrine of salvation. These folk are not saved. How can they rightly divide the Word without the Spirit Of God?

    Now look at verse 9
    abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

    How can one abide in a doctrine in which they never got started? Cf John 8:31 and Philipians 2:12

    Return to your mark and run in again.


  6. @ Doc GP

    Please help me here,Dr. Am I reading that scripture reference, from 2 Jn,1 given by Anon, correctly? Somehow I don’t understand it to mean that ANYONE is lost there. What I understand that reference to mean is that such folk may find themselves in some serious trouble with God if they persist in such behaviour/beliefs. Correct?


  7. Oh Most Brilliant David!
    Re It is clear Beck is pushing and emotional rhetoric to mobilize the conservative of America

    Question. Did MLK push an emotional rhetoric too? Whom did he seek to mobilize? Did he seek to mobilze anyone.

    If MLK had the right to push an emotional rhetoric to mobilize anyone in his day, does Beck have the right to push an emotional rhetoric in our day too?

    Re It is interesting the same base which is captivated by his message are very receptive to Sarah Palin.
    Is this sinful or morally wrong?

    Re Beck is another nutcase produced by the land of the free.
    To be discussing Beck in the same breath as MLK a man who demonstrated he cared by his repeated actions he cared is nonsense.

    But we have a whole thread in direct response to A VERY SUCCESSFUL RALLY THAT HE HELD ON SATURDAY

    How do we know that Beck does not care for his country?

    Is it because he is white?

    The great MLK the orator the scholar the brilliant of the brilliant held a rally, He is exalted
    .
    Now a โ€œnutcase from nowhere who is a self confessed drunkard : who is obviously not smart and clearly not the smartest tool in the shop HELD A RALLY TOO1 And he is being condemned on BU because he is WHITE?

    Help me out here, man. The logic evades me.


  8. de Hood
    Anon is a biblical galactosemic with spiritual lactose intolerance. He is picking seeds, but does not know what they are about. Not only has he wrongly divided the Word he is very far in the ocean.

    Permit me to share some pages from my personal commentary on 2 John written in 2000 as part of my MDiv studies.

    2 JOHN 7. For many deceivers have gone out into the world, men who will not acknowledge the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh; such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.

    In this section, we have the answer to the lady’s question. Having assured the elect lady that believers are commanded of the Lord to love one another, John now proceeds to the main subject of his letter. What should be the attitude of the Christian toward the “many deceivers” who “are entered into the world” (v.7) ? In the name of love, should he treat them with Christian hospitality?

    In 2 John 7, John moves from encouraging truth to opposing error. He begins with the conjunction “for,” indicating that the following statement is the reason for heeding the exhortation of verses 5-6. Believers are to cultivate genuine love for one another because “many deceivers are entered into the world” (v. 7) As in I John 4: 1, John is referring to the fact that many false teachers are traveling from place to place propagating their error. Johnโ€™s idea is that with the truth known and dwelling in us, and with a walk in consistency with the truth, we shall be prepared to detect and refuse the many deceivers that have gone out into the world.

    In dealing with deceivers and false teachers, one must first recognize the nature of the error. John teaches that there are only two fundamental types of Christian perversions. All Christian error and heresies gather about one or the other of these.

    1.There are, first of all, those who are deceived about the person of the Lord Jesus. There is one sign of the true redeemer and savior — he is the one who came from God into the world and became man. The incarnation is an essential doctrine of Christian faith. If you can trace a man’s origin from his birth, and you know that he entered this human stream though the normal reproductive faculties, and he claims to be a savior, you can write him off, because he is not God’s savior. And if he claims not to believe nor to accept this incarnation of the Lord Jesus, then the man is in error. No matter what else he may say, he is not speaking as the spokesman of God.

    Throughout the New Testament, all the apostles set the incarnation at the center of Christian theology — the Word becoming man. Everything else revolves around the person of the Lord Jesus. John says, if a man does not teach this , no matter what else he may say, he is a deceiver. Now he may be deceived as well as being a deceiver, but he is an antichrist, because he is against the doctrine of Jesus. Therefore, he is to be recognized for what he is — a man who is mistaken and trying to deceive others.

    2 John 7 reads similarly to 1 John 2:18-26 and 4:1-3.It teaches that there are ‘deceivers’ and ‘antichrists’, who work and speak against Christ, and who have ‘gone out into the world’ with their teaching, just as the true followers of Christ have been sent into the world to take the gospel to all people (see Matthew 28:19-20 and John 17:18). These false teachers denied what is at the very centre of Christianity, ‘the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh’. That is, they denied that Jesus, the Son of God, really became Man for us. They said that He only seemed to be Man.. They denied that He suffered and died as man for us men and women. John wants us to beware of the denial of Christ.


  9. 2 John continued

    2.The other type of error, that gathers around a misunderstanding or false conception of the teaching of the Lord Jesus is that โ€œ Any one who goes ahead [literally, goes beyond] and does not abide in the doctrine [the teaching] of Christ does not have God. (2 Jn 1:9 RSV) This certainly takes care of all groups that hold that the Bible is not an adequate revelation of God, and that say we need something else. Such impostors are often very persuasive and sincere and may even be very charismatic with great personalites , but they do not abide in the doctrine of Christ, therefore they are not of God. There are many people today who say that the teachings of the Scriptures are infantile, and that modern man can no longer accept the simplistic teachings of the Bible. The contemporary mind seeks satisfaction in more scientific approaches. This is exactly what John is talking about here? Anyone who goes beyond, or departs from the revelation of Jesus, and considers it too simple, and tries to add something to the teachings of the Word of God. John wants us to beware of thinking that there is truth greater than the truth of Christ.

    In 2 John 7, John teaches that the presence of the deceivers is marked by their doctrine. This verse teaches also that they have been sent into the world, that they are seducing deceiving impostors, and that they are many in number. Johnโ€™s description of them agrees with that of Peter (2 Peter 2:and Jude) in these respects as well as the denial in which they engage and their mission to repudiate the truth of Christ’s coming. John alone refers to them as antichrist. It is imperative that we appreciate that the word deceiver implies much more than teaching false doctrine. It also includes leading people into wrong living, because wrong doctrine leads to wrong living. We are what we believe and what we have learned. Truth and life go together. What we believe determines how we behave. Wrong doctrine and wrong living always go together

    Deceivers are exposed by their attitude to Christ. They assert that Jesus Christ was a good Man, but refuse to confess that He is “come in flesh.” To confess that Jesus Christ is come in flesh is to own that He pre-existed as God before He became flesh. There would be no sense in saying of a mere human being that he is come in flesh. How else could he come? But to deny that Jesus Christ is come in flesh is thus to deny His previous existence, and therefore the denial that He is GOD! The one who denies this great truth concerning Christ at once exposes himself as “a deceiver and an anfichrist”.

    John wants all to know that there can be no Chritianity with a diminished Christ. A Jesus any less than God in flesh appeanng cannot be a Saviour. Any doctrine which takes away from Christ’s full deity is no doctrine at all. It is antichristian, destructive. In I John 4:2, the tense was different. There it was” come” or “has come” in the flesh, as though to stress the historic, fact of the Incarnation. Now he uses the present tense ‘coming,’ as though that act, like Calvary, was somehow timeless. Jesus is always the Messiah. We must always, day by day look to him to see God. ( Blaiklock p 117 )

    For the Christian, Christ is the Truth. Many others may bring to us what is in some way true and helpful. We can be helped in many ways to gain parts of the truth. But the Christian believes that Christ is ‘the Truth’. God spoke through His prophets in Old Testament days. Wise men and women of all nations have helped people towards the truth and have taught us to love the good and to hate evil. But the Christian believes that once and for all God has, spoken to us and has brought the Truth to us most perfectly by sending His own Son Jesus Christ. As Hebrews 1:1-2 puts it, ‘In many and-various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son.’ Others speak God’s word as His messengers; He is the living Word of God (John 1: 1, 14, 18), the very Son of God. ‘The elder’ had to emphasize this because there were those who were denying the truth of Christ, and who were saying that you could go on from, Christ to higher truth. He tells ‘the elect lady and her children’ to beware of both these teachings. (Foulkes p 105)

    J. B. Philips’way of translating verse 10 is to describe such a false teacher as one ‘who is so “advanced” that he is not content with what Christ taught’. He is not content with what Christ taught or with what Christ is. Such people were saying that Christ was only one of God’s messengers, only one of those through whom people came to God. The true Christian, on the other hand; believes that he has in Christ all that he needs or could ever ask for. Others may be messengers; Christ is the living Word. Others may be servants of God; Christ is the Son of God. To think that anyone is higher than Him is to make a great mistake. For when we have Him we have God, as verse 9 puts it; we have ‘both the Father and the Son’ (see also I John 2:23 and 5:12). The only wise way for us is to ‘abide in the doctrine of Christ’ and let Him be the Foundation for the whole of our life, our understanding, our faith, our works, our actions. The apostle Paul says this (in I Corinthians 3: 1 1) when he says, no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ’. Foulkes p 105


  10. 2 JOhn continued

    Let us below see if we can summarize the facts about deceiving, false teaching, anti-Christian impostors.

    โ€ข The presence of such deceivers was predicted by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse and Paul in Acts 20:28.
    โ€ข These deceivers exist.
    โ€ข These deceivers are successful! They are many! This is because as Peter 2:2 says many shall follow their
    pernicious ways.” Because fallen human nature wants to believe lies and resist God’s truth and because as taught in 2 Peter 2 the apostates use devious methods to seduce unwary and unstable people.
    โ€ข These deceivers are “antichrists’ (see 1 John 2:18-29). The Greek prefix anti means both “instead of’ and “against.’ These teachers are against Christ because they deny that He is indeed God come in the flesh (see 1 John 4:16). These deceivers and antichrists work and speak against Christ
    โ€ข These deceivers originate in the church ; “Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them” (Acts 20:30). John says in 2 John 7 that โ€œFor many deceivers have gone out into the world” (literal translation). They went out from the church! At one time, they professed to believe “the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” ( Jude 3), but they turned from that faith and abandoned the truth and the church. “They went out from us, but ( because ) they were not of us” (1 John 2:19). They have ‘gone out into the world’ with their teaching, just as the true followers of Christ have been sent into the world to take the gospel to all people (see Matthew 28:1920 and John 17:18).
    โ€ข .False teachers have chosen not to abide in the truth. To abide in the truth means to remain true to the basic doctrines of the Christian faith. The false teachers had departed from the truth and from the church fellowship and, therefore, they were dangerous.
    โ€ข The false teachers have in addition given their converts a “substitute Christ’ who is not the Christ of the Christian faith.These false teachers were not only denying that Jesus Christ was really Man. They were also saying that you can ‘go ahead’ from the teaching of Christ to higher truth.

    โ€ข โ€œIt takes constant spiritual vigilance to protect a family or a local church from the insidious attacks of false teachers. One very successful pastor told me, “If I took my eyes off this work for twenty-four hours and stopped praying, it would be invaded before we knew it.’ He was not emphasizing his own importance (though godly pastors are essential to spiritual churches) but the importance of diligence and vigilance.โ€ ( Wiersbe)
    โ€ข False teachers deny the truth about Christ– These are individuals who “confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.” This is the same as saying that these (receivers are denying the truth of the incarnation (cf. I John 2:22). The heresy of which 2 John speaks is the identical Gnostic error refuted in I John 4:2-3. False teachers such as Cerinthus refused to believe that the divine Christ actually came in human flesh. That John is not speaking of the second coming of Christ is evident for several reasons. (1) We know of no first century heresy which denied a second coming in flesh. (2) The Gnostics did deny that the first coming was a coming in flesh. (3) The perfect tense “is come” in the parallel passage (I John 4:2) points back to the first advent. (4) Flesh is more normally used of the mortal human body than of the immortal resurrection body. These false teachers denied what is at the very centre of Christianity, ‘the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh’. That is, they denied that Jesus, the Son of God, really became Man for us. They said that He only seemed to be Man . How great our loss would be if they were right! He would not have shared our life and known in experience our weaknesses and temptations. He would not have suffered and died as man for us men and women.โ€
    โ€ข All who reject the incarnation of Christ are characterized as “the deceiver and the antichrist”.
    โ€ข In Johnโ€™s writings he ‘John means to lump together all of the Gnostics and describe them as the deceiver and the Antichrist par excellence. This is to say that the Gnostic heresy is the product of the archenemy of God and His people. It comes from Satan himself and is propagated by the spirit of Antichrist which is even now abroad in the world (I Jn 4:3). Gnosticism denied that Jesus Christ had come in the flesh; it denied the humanity of the Lord Jesus Christ. Cerinthian Gnosticism taught that Jesus was a man on whom the Spirit came at His baptism and left at His crucifixion. Docetic Gnosticism denied the reality of the manhood of Jesus. It taught that He was just a phantom, a figment of the imagination.

    The first question you want to ask any teacher, preacher, or author is, ‘What do you think about Christ? Is He God come in the flesh?’ If he hesitates, or if he denies that Jesus is God come in the flesh, then you can be sure you have a false teacher.

    Verse 7 clearly tells of the two types of error which false teachers propagate and points out the dangers the church and its members face because of deceivers the world; verse 8 teaches about the danger which will beffall us if we fall into this kind of error.


  11. Anonymous |
    All this diatribe just to support Glen Beckโ€™s attack on Obama.

    Is it only now that America needs to get back to God?

    NO AMERICA NEEDED TO GET BACK TO GOD A LONG TIME AGO AND THIS IS AS GOOD A TIME AS ANY. Ah lie. I know that it is too late. But still they have the right to hold on to 2 Chronicles 7:14.

    Are we to believe that only with Obamaโ€™s election has America moved away from God?
    NO THEY MOVED AWAY FROM GOD LONG AGO. IS IT WRONG FOR BECK OR ANYONE ELF TO CALL THEM BACK?

    Why is it that the followers of MLK have not done so? Did they fail to execute on 2 Timothy 2:2? LOL

    It is implied that America at sometime in the past was firmly and totally with God.

    NOT AT ALL . BUT THEY ARE AWAY FROM GOD. SO BECK HAS EVERY RIGHT TO CALL THEM BACK TO GOD AS HE DIDLAST SATURDAY. LOL

    It is thus incredible that we are told that America needs to RETURN to God and only now that Obama is President.
    WHY DO YOU ASSERT THUS? SURELY AMERICA NEEDS TO SEEK GODโ€™s FACE REGARDLESS TO WHO IS PRESEIDENT.

    I have not pulled down the work of Martin Luther King in order justify their support of Beck and opposition to Obama
    I HAVE GIVEN MY OPINION AND I DO NOT CARE THAT IT DOES NOT COINCIDE WITH YOURS

    KING IS DEAD WHY ARE WE RAISING HIM FROM THE DEAD WHEN BECK HELD HIS SUCESSFUL RALLY? You mean that only ML Km can hold rallies?

    WHY THE FEAR OF BECK? I repeat He is not the greatest orator or the smartest tool in the shed

    WHY THE FEAR THAT ALL THOSE WHITES WHO ATENDED ON SUNDAY WILL RETURN TO THEIR HOMES AND HURCHES AND TOWNS AND VOTE AGAINST OBAMA IN UPCOMING ELECTIONS. Didnโ€™t they vote for him in 2008?

    Why do you fear that that they will listen to โ€œTHE NUT CASE BECK NOWโ€ ? LOL

    You guys are funny, and I am having a ball here. Your rantings wont stop Pailin or The Tea Party or The Black Robed Men

    I expressed my opinion that kingโ€™s written words for not being Biblically consistent BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT!

    And Yes I watch Becks show It is quite entertaining. Very much like BU. LOL

    And he does certainly provides food for thought, and some interesting principles especially about the use of College Professors in the indoctrination of young students for 40 years. I have been hearing that for years BUT HE READ FROM DOCUMENTS ABOUT IT.

    If Beck as you say to be supportive of the exclusive right of white, male, Christian persons to occupy positions of authority and power, uncritically supportive of capitalist exploitation of labour and natural resources and the relentless use of American military and financial power in the support of a Zionist Israel is an America that is well with God.- is that not his right? WHAT ABOUT THE SO CALLED FREE SPEECH ON BU LOL.

    Question is what are THE BLACKS WHO ARE THE SOLID STUDENTS OF THE DEAD BUT EXALTED KING DOING ABOUT IT? HOW EFFECTIVE ARE THEY AT SO DOING? LOL .

    DO you think posting Kings speeches here on BU and talking bull here will stop Beck and others? Eh LOL THAT IS NONSENSE MAN LOL

    Man if the BLACK PRESIDENT WAS DOING A GREAT JOB YOU THINKL THAT ALL THOSW WHITE FOLK WHO VOTED FOR THE SAME BLACK PRESIDENT WOULD NOW BE TAKING BECK SERIOUSLY?

    .THE BLACKS IN THE USA CAN NOT VOTE ANYONE TO NE A PRESEIDENT? Ask Jesse James Jackson

    You think those whites from the HICKIES as some one has called them in derision on this thread will vote for a black President again?

    Will Beck be the cause or to blame? Donโ€™t the whites from the HICKIES have sense? Or is it that they made a big mistake in 2008.

    THERE ARE TWO SIDES TO A STORY
    I HOPE YOU GOT THAT POINT. LOL

    THE ONLY DEAD MAN THAT CAN CHANGE ANYTHING IS JESUS CHRIST GOT THATโ€ฆ..not puny mlk LOL

    Now you can cuss me as much as you like. I AINT COME HERE TO LOOK FOR VOTES OR A JOB. LOL


  12. Thank you for your humble response GP.

    Let us, however put this in context. Techie made the point that “No where does the Scripture teach that those who wrongly divide the word are lost”.

    In response I made the suggestion that 2Jn 1:7 to 2Jn 1:11 does, however have something to say about that.

    You then replied quite humbly I might add, by regurgitating what I have said.

    Here is how:

    I will skip the first section because we seem to be on the same page there. In the second section of your masterpiece you stated:

    2 John continued

    2.The other type of error, that gathers around a misunderstanding or false conception of the teaching of the Lord Jesus is that โ€œ Any one who goes ahead [literally, goes beyond] and does not abide in the doctrine [the teaching] of Christ does not have God.

    And

    “Anyone who goes beyond, or departs from the revelation of Jesus, and considers it too simple, and tries to add something to the teachings of the Word of God. John wants us to beware of thinking that there is truth greater than the truth of Christ”.

    GP you yourself said these deceivers do not have God. You went on further to say that if they add, and i would submit, subtract, these people are decievers and are LOST when it comes to the doctrine of Christ.

    I would therefore submit to you, that these persons (decievers) do not have God (you admitted this also) and are LOST, which is contrary to what Techie had said.

    Dr. GP, I hope this is not far from your myopic mind. The prognosis here does seem positive in my view ๐Ÿ™‚


  13. Anon
    I made the point that โ€œNo where does the Scripture teach that those who wrongly divide the word are lostโ€. because you are NOT lost because you wrongly divide the Word per se, you are lost because you do not recieve Christ. THE NT ALWAYS TEACHES THAT RECIEVING OR KNOWING OR HAVING FAITH IN CHRIST IS THE MEANS OF SALVATION. NEVER DOES IT TEACH THAT KNOWLEDGE OR IGNORANCE OF THE WORD IS THE MEANS OF SALVATION.

    Nor does the proof texts on the division of thwe Word teah this. 2 Tim 2 :15 was adreesed to believers (or to a believer Timothy.)

    You do not understand either the context or content of 2 John I will not contend further with you on this except to say the point in 2 John is about not having Christ. This is the central tenet of Johannine theology i.e what a person believes about Christ

    You cannot rightly divide the Word without the Spirit of God. You only get the Spirit of God when you get Christ, so the issue in 2 John is about not having Christ, not dividing the Word.

    The unbelievers of whom John speaks do not have God because they do not have or believe the doctine of or about Christ- not primarily because they do not divide the Word rightly. Unbelievers cannot divide the Word rightly. I would think that John knew that, dont you? You may now return to your run and read what you wrote before trying to contradict me with your stupid semantics. Read the text properly in its context.


  14. The issue is not whether Martin Luther King can change anything (he can’t, he’s dead) but it is the cynical exploitation of King’s legacy to attack Obama. I do not believe Beck when he claims that he did not know or remember that he was holding his rally at the same place and on the anniversary of King’s “I have a dream” speech. Contrary to your low opinion of King, Beck and Palin well recognize King’s place in the political philosophy of the USA and are actually paying homage to it as they attempt (in their minds) an irrefutable attack on Obama. By associating with King’s legacy the charge of racism would be blunted. Mention of God and the Biblical tenets are hypocritically invoked to provide a cover for the real goal of achieving political power. Your “hero” Beck does not publicly dismiss King’s legacy but actually seeks to align King’s name and message with his (Beck’s) cause. Anyone believing that Beck and company are sincerely calling for America to turn to God could only be pathetically naive.


  15. Anonymous my friend

    The issue is not whether Martin Luther King can change anything (he canโ€™t, heโ€™s dead) ON THAT WE AGREE LOL.

    but it is the cynical exploitation of Kingโ€™s legacy to attack Obama. SO THEN BECK IS SMARTER THAN WE THINK HE IS LOL

    I do not believe Beck when he claims that he did not know or remember that he was holding his rally at the same place and on the anniversary of Kingโ€™s โ€œI have a dreamโ€ speech. YOU MAY BE RIGHT HE SAID HE TOOK A YEAR TO PLAN THE RALLY THIS WEEK HE ASSERTED THAT HE BROUGHT SHARKTON ON HIS SHOW AND THAT HE FOLLOWED SHARKTONโ€™s IDEAS TO DO THE RALLY SUCESSFULLY LOL SEEMS HE IS SMARTER THAN I THINK HE IS LOL!

    Contrary to your low opinion of King ( FOR WHICH I RESERVE THE RIGHT) , Beck and Palin well recognize Kingโ€™s place in the political philosophy of the USA and are actually paying homage to it as they attempt (in their minds) an irrefutable attack on Obama. By associating with Kingโ€™s legacy the charge of racism would be blunted

    SO THEN WE MUST ADMIT THAT HE IS SMARTER THAN WE THINK HE IS LOL

    Mention of God and the Biblical tenets are hypocritically invoked to provide a cover for the real goal of achieving political power.

    SO THEN WE MUST ADMIT THAT HE IS SMARTER THAN WE THINK HE IS LOL
    SEEMS HE IS WISE AS A SERPENT WHILE APPEARING TO BE AS HARMLESS AS A DOVE. MARTIN OUGHT TO HAVE LEARNED THAT LOL. HE MIGHT HAVE ACHIEVED MORE. Some one said he died for black people. Now you got a BLACK PRESIDENT and what?

    Re Your โ€œheroโ€ Beck does not publicly dismiss Kingโ€™s legacy but actually seeks to align Kingโ€™s name and message with his (Beckโ€™s) cause. Anyone believing that Beck and company are sincerely calling for America to turn to God could only be pathetically naive.
    LOL

    Sir CHRIST IS MY ONLY HERO HE ONLY IS WORTHY!

    You really think that Beck is my hero or that I think that America will return to God? I dont. I think they are far down the wicket. But Beck et all have the right to try to seek God’s face as taught in 2 Chron 7:14.

    I cant judge their sincerity, nor can you.

    If they are not sincere God will not hear their plea.

    Personally I want to see America go down the hill. OK? And I dont care who the President is- whether he is black or white. I have not recieved any great benefit because the President is black Sir. Nor have many blacks.

    How many black advisors does he have Sir?

    The black President you are ranting and raving about has not done anything for BLACKS. He has made Health care less accessible to blacks for one. You guys are so funny on BU.

    This racial stuff. We came and found it we will go and leave it BECAUSE WE BLACKS JUST TALK. WE DONโ€™T DO ANYTHING TO IMPROVE THINGS AMONG OURSELVES. LOL Ah lie?


  16. Terence M. Blackett, the Bar Raiser wrote at September 2, 2010 at 12:28 PM |
    You wrote:- โ€œNO PROPHET IS ACCEPTED IN HIS OWN COUNTRY OR ELSEWHERE FOR THAT MATTER!!!โ€

    APPARENTLY IN THE USA THEY ARE ACCEPTING THE WORD OF BECK THE STUPID WHITE HICKIES MAN LOL

    The Bar Raiser asked Will Glenn Beckโ€™s Creepy โ€œBlack Robe Regimentโ€ Use Churches to Sway Voters?

    THEY PROBABLY WILL! IN FACT THEY HAVESARTED IN SOME QUARTERS.

    In my church Group politics is neer mentioned. They speak only of CHRIST!

    Terence M. Blackett | September 2, 2010 at 11:52 AM wrote
    Just slightly OFF-TOPIC* but look at the RELIGIOUS RIGHTโ€™s MAJOR Concerns: MONEY* โ€“

    I WONDER IF BLACKS IN THE USA AND BARBADOS DONT HAVE MONEY AS A MAJOR CONCERN

    My father used to Say Money is only a problem when you dont have any! Powerful STUFF!!! LOL

    ASK BLACKS IN THE USA TODAY. THIR LOT HAS NOT CHANGED WITH A BLACK PRESIDENT. Tell me that a lie here. But be correct. Show me how LOL

    Black Americans did not get much of the Stimlus money did they? LOL


  17. Techie made the point that โ€œNo where does the Scripture teach that those who wrongly divide the word are lostโ€

    @ Anon…

    You are attributing a quote to me that I DID NOT make sir!!

    Pleas read again!!


  18. What is One is All, All is One. From Ra comes the Light and Energy, that is Life.

    We must not argue of disparity, but unity. Love is that which brings us to Ra.

    Too much energy is on Negative, not enough on Positive.


  19. @Techie

    Sorry Sir, it was GP who made the statement.


  20. @GP

    My point is that a person who does not have God is LOST.

    2Jn 1:9 says a person who does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.

    It therefore follows that those who are not correctly dividing the Word are therefore not abiding in the doctrine of Christ, and are LOST.

    Maybe it is my interpretation of what the *doctrine of Christ* means is flawed. I am thinking that it refers to the teachings of Christ, and not merely the incarnation of Christ. This phrase was also mentioned at Heb 6:1, and it is referred to as the Principles of the doctrine of Christ.

    I don’t think one can hold onto that fact that Jesus was God in the flesh, and yet don’t expect to abide by his teachings.

    What i’m saying is that persons can sit down and read the Word of God, and come up with the wrong conclusions, and therefore be LOST in that attained ignorance.

    Examples:

    1. If I were a stranger to Barbados, and I bought a map in order to travel around the island, yet my interpretation of that map was incorrect. Don’t you think i might end up LOST?

    2. Jesus thought, as I have read it, that tithing was part of the law. It should therefore be done away with. Almost all the churches that i know of have read the same passage of scripture, yet churches continue to teach this as part of the doctrine.

    Don’t you think these persons might be lost, since they have transgressed, and are not abiding in the doctrine of Christ?

    It is therefore not limited to those who *do not have, or do not believe* (if i may quote you), because believers are not dividing the word correctly, and are therefore lost in some respects.

    “You may now return to your run and read what you wrote before trying to contradict me with your stupid semantics”.

    I am not trying to contradict what you have written, because all that you have written is quite correct. I am just trying to show you the extent to which the passage can be interpreted.


  21. The issue is not whether Martin Luther can change anything , He can’t he is dead.
    The same can be applied to Jesus (lol).Even though these two men are dead there messages live on in the hearts and men of those who believe in their message. Yes both men have brought needed change to the world at large. The stories attributed to both men have brought extraordinary. Maybe god does move in mysterious ways.


  22. I think all yuh bobbleheads and teachers of the Word need to clearly define the word Lost in its proper context. Before everbody reading the comments become lost in translation. The Teachers and the divider of the word need to Speak in English instead of Holy Ghost verbage. The are many ways in which the word LOST can be use and also interpreted.
    e.g. If the sheep are lost the shep[herd looks for them.
    if a person is given incorrect directions they would get LOST
    Apparently here on Bu some of the commentators are also Lost and The Teachers are having a hard time finding them. Shame on You!


  23. Anon | September 2, 2010 at 6:02 PM |
    My point is that a person who does not have God is LOST. TRUE

    2Jn 1:9 says a person who does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. ALSO TRUE BECAUSE THESE GUYS NEVER HAD GOD IN THE FIRST PLACE THEY ARE FALSE! see below

    It therefore follows that those who are not correctly dividing the Word are therefore not abiding in the doctrine of Christ, and are LOST. NO! SUCH A PERSON MIGHT HAVE RECIEVED CHRIST AS SAVIOUR AND IS THUS NOT LOST.

    He might be wrongly dividing the Word because he has not learned to do so, or he is following denominational dogma. He might be following what his denomination teaches on a subject. But IF he has at some time truly received Christ as Savior. he can never be Lost c f John 6:37 John 10: 27-30 etc

    I see what you are trying to say but you got off at the wrong exit! LOL You seem to have a definition problem.

    Re I donโ€™t think one can hold onto that fact that Jesus was God in the flesh, and yet donโ€™t expect to abide by his teachings. RIGHT!

    Re What iโ€™m saying is that persons can sit down and read the Word of God, and come up with the wrong conclusions, and therefore be LOST in that attained ignorance

    Lost in ignorance BUT NOT LOST IN THE SPIRITUAL SENSE
    NOT IF THEY HAVE GENUINELY RECEIVED CHRIST AS SAVIOR

    It seems your definition of LOST is not the Biblical one. In the NT lost remains apart from God heading for hell condemned damned . If you genuinely received Christ as Savior you cant be LOST ever, even if you lose your way.

    Examples:
    1. If I were a stranger to Barbados, and I bought a map in order to travel around the island, yet my interpretation of that map was incorrect. Donโ€™t you think i might end up LOST? YES But thatโ€™s not what is addressed in the NT by the word lost.

    We have to chose our analogies carefully when teaching the Word.

    2. Jesus thought, as I have read it, that tithing was part of the law. It should therefore be done away with. Almost all the churches that i know of have read the same passage of scripture, yet churches continue to teach this as part of the doctrine.

    ACTUALLY THE NT SEEMS TO TEACH THAT YOU MIGHT GIVE MORE LOL cf 2 Corinthians 8 &9 Now you give as much as you can might be more than 10% Now you give not be cause you are ordered to i.e AS A DUTY

    Now you give because you WANT TO AS A DEVOTION

    Donโ€™t you think these persons might be lost, since they have transgressed, and are not abiding in the doctrine of Christ? NO

    THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST is really the doctrine ABOUT Christ according to the Greek It MAY BE SUMMARISED THUS OK

    HIS VIRGIN BIRTH
    HIS VIRTUOUS LIFE
    HIS VICARIOUS SUFFERING
    HIS VICTORIOUS RESSURECTION
    HIS VINDICATIVE ASCENSION
    HIS VITAL SESSION
    HIS VISIBLE RETURN

    Now you tend to learn these things after you are saved.
    True believers can never be lost according to Scriptures like John 6:37 Phil 1:6 Jude 24 and many such verses
    dividing the word correctly is another issue altogether
    Many great believers and teachers of the Word debate certain scriptures but they are not lost once they believe the doctrine of or about Christ.
    Hope this helps.
    But I now understand where you are coming from . You have to get a few definitions correct thatโ€™s all.


  24. From the above comments
    I herefore summarize as such after giving mnuch thought and waddling through the bowl of of the written word as decipher by the anointed one GP
    As such as i. If a person received Christ and henceforth divides the Word such a person is not Lost
    2. Caution ; A person who divides the Word is called a false teacher and is not known of God.
    3 . There is a feeling of being hopelessly Lost in the two answers


  25. @ Dr. GP

    You wrote in a comment:- “To confess that Jesus Christ is come in flesh is to own that He pre-existed as God before He became flesh.’
    …………………………………………………………………………………………………………
    Would you please expand on that statement, I’m not quite sure if I have understood it correctly.


  26. Mr Hood
    John 1; John 3 and much of John, Colossians 1 & 1 John 2:;28 et secq express the fact that Jesus existed as God prior to his first advent to earth (see also the majestic verses in Philipians 2: 6-8 on the kenosis and epistatic union!)

    Throughout John ‘s Gospel John continually reprts that Jesus came from above. In other words he was always God, whome we are taught in John 4 is spirit.

    John stresses Jesus’ coming in the flesh or his incarnation in 1 John and 2 John and Paul stresses it in 1 Timothy 3:16
    Hebrews stresses 2 the imoportance of his becoming a man . He had to become the GOD MAN so that he could be the perfect go between or kinsman redeemer as required by the Law in Leviticus and as demonstrated in the book of Ruth.

    Hope this helps. Jesus coming in the flesh has to do with HIS VIRGIN BIRTH . In this way he was not born in sin or with a sin nature as Adam’s offspring (see the comparison in Romans 5, and note the “much more’s ” in that chapter. We could go on.


  27. So let us try to follow GP logic.
    ******************************************************
    *a person who does not have God is LOST.
    *a person who does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.
    *only through the guidance of the spirit of God can God’s word be correctly divided
    *******************************************************
    THEREFORE
    -The inability to divide doctrine correctly would suggest that the person does NOT have the benefit of Gods’ spirit
    – Not having Gods’ spirit indicates that one does NOT have God and is therefore lost.

    ‘Abiding in the doctrine of Christ’ is difficult when one cannot come to grips with his expressed reason for speaking in parables; his being the ‘firstborn of many brethren’; or his symbolic selection of ‘fisherman-types’ as disciples – rather than scholars, preachers, and lawyers.


  28. So Hood if you agree that he came from above as the several NT Scriptures attest and born of a virgin as certain OT Scriptures prdicted then you must agre that he was previously God.

    This position was vindicated by his resurrection and ascension (these two events being referred to his exaltation or being lifted up cf Isaiah 52-53 and John 3:14, John 7 John 8 and John 12 Philipians 2: 11 Revelation 5


  29. @GP
    to the high most anointed one and Medical Doctor.
    Can you please explain to me the Virgin Birth ! Like what is a Virgin Birth..
    Anyone with such knowledge can also respond.


  30. @GP

    Comparing Beck to MLK a man who spent a significant part of his life fighting for the rights of minorities is disrespectful to his legacy. MLK is a man who motivated Rosa Parks to protest in a way she otherwise would not have done. MLK motivated Black people in America to boycott the public transportation for 1 year and to walk instead.

    Beck has just come to dinner and his message is designed to promote a divided America. Remember Jim Jones had a big following.

    Let us agree to disagree, Beck like Limbaugh is a jackass and a johnny come lately, a real nut job!


  31. @BUSH TEA

    The only problem with your analogy it that according to the anointed one GP . in one of his post sept.2.6.02p.m.a person having receives christ is not lost if he divides the Word.


  32. @ Dr.GP

    So, Doc, are you, in fact, saying that God-the Father, and Jesus Christ-God the Son, are actually one and the same person?


  33. No i cannot agree that Jesus came from above . First I need to understand fully where is”ABOVE” and what is it in reference to 1.e place.. Then again if the bible says No man has seen God. Wouldn’t that be a contradiction to say Jesus is God in the Flesh.


  34. @ David

    You wrote:- “Beck has just come to dinner and his message is designed to promote a divided America.”
    …………………………………………………………………………………………………………
    And why would you so claim, David? Are you saying then that Beck has ulterior motives (personal agenda?)?


  35. @de Hood
    So, Doc, are you, in fact, saying that God-the Father, and Jesus Christ-God the Son, are actually one and the same person?

    No Sir I am saying that they are two different persons.
    If you read John’s Gospel through this will become very clear.


  36. @Hood
    What real importance does Beck message have to all people worlwide colour , race or creed . MLK Message was about the social ills as well asw the injustices and was not linked to any political Party of that time.
    Beck is linked to a political Party therfore giving people the suspicion that he is highly charged and politically motivated and he is using a tool constantly used by the rightwinged 1.e the Bible to activate his agenda.
    MLK set out to make a difference and in so doing he left himself a message and him being an example for others to follow.Not everyone called upon to do exceptional things. Not everyone has the guts or intestinal fortitude to die for what is right. Mlk did.
    Can glenn Beck. I think not. His as you can clearly see is will be always a one time event. Whereas Mlk continued to march and fought to make life a lot tolerant for their children and gran children not matter what colour race or creed.


  37. @GP
    So why would you refered to Jesus Christ as GOD in your post
    SEpt 2/10.04p.m. You can’t have it both ways.


  38. @ GP

    I will draw your focus as to why I said you are short-sighted in this matter earlier.

    We are arguing for the same coin, you for one side, and I the other.

    Here is why:

    Your argument holds that a person who is truly a Christian can not be lost because they believe in the doctrine of Christ. (TRUE)

    My argument is that there are Christians who do not hold these views because they might not believe for example that Jesus was God and later became man, or in HIS VIRGIN BIRTH. (ALSO TRUE)

    With these views in mind, the scripture at 2 jn speaks to those who do not believe.

    In the final analysis therefore I submit that the scripture does speak to the fact that if one *wrongly divide the word you are lost*.

    You, however, made the statement that โ€œNo where does the Scripture teach that those who wrongly divide the word are lostโ€


  39. @GP

    Are you seeing more clearly now, or do I need to prescribe those concave lens, Sir. ๐Ÿ™‚


  40. @ac who asked ”September 2, 2010 at 10:05 PM | @GP
    to the high most anointed one and Medical Doctor.
    Can you please explain to me the Virgin Birth ! Like what is a Virgin Birth..
    Anyone with such knowledge can also respond”

    ———
    Fairly easy to answer. You know on the condom packet where it says to ensure that one does not touch the woman before placing the condom? Well that is proof that without entrance, the possibility of seeding is there. Hence, a virgin birth may occur if foreplay occurs but no further, or if ‘events’ occur without protection, but for some reason are not carried through.

    See how easy, ? ๐Ÿ˜‰

    And no special knowledge required, not even having to divide anything, neother words nor legs.


  41. Though I am not sure how one can ‘wrongly divide’ legs…


  42. Not to belabour the point of virgin birth, but such could also ostensibly occur where youngsters play behind the bicycle shed, young buck and doe-eyed sweet girl too scared to tell daddy that the have done the bouncy-bouncy.

    Or, in the old days, where a king espies a young lass and wraps her in his warm and sweaty embrace, the parents must convince the village that the baby has come without any initial ‘entry’ of their maiden.


  43. Crusoe
    Whereas your ruminations on the concept of the Virgin Birth is quite amusing, they are however, theologically incorrect. LOL

    Mr Anon
    Re
    Your argument holds that a person who is truly a Christian can not be lost because they believe in the doctrine of Christ. (TRUE)

    But your argument that there are Christians who do not hold these views because they might not believe for example that Jesus was God IS FALSE!

    By definition Christians believe that Jesus is God. This is the major argument in all Johanine theology – especially 1 John . It is also the point John is making in 2 John


  44. @GP

    I knew you would hold onto that.

    The bible has therefore referred to them as deceivers.


  45. I think you can agree we are in the same church though we were in different pews.


  46. What has been happening to the Church from its inception, is that persons are not just deceiving from without, but they are deceiving from within.


  47. Yes Indeed Anon. This was predicted by Paul in his address to the Ephesian elders as recorded in Acts 20:32 et secq. Note also the emphasis Paul put on the Word in verse 32

    28. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

    29. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

    30. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

    31. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

    32. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.


  48. @GP
    @de Hood
    ‘”No Sir I am saying that they are two different persons.
    If you read Johnโ€™s Gospel through this will become very clear.’”
    **************************************
    Pheeewww! I’m sure glad that we at least agree on that one! ๐Ÿ™‚

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