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Submitted by Bajan Truth

TWO WEEKS OF DISCLOSURE AND DEBATE and not a word from Thompson only comments on Families First. Not a  word to allay the  fears of those 2400 policy-holders, the number of  policies sold since Aug., 2009. Any vendor in the market selling without a license would have felt the long arm of the law, not CLICO, Thompson’s financier.  No discipline on Estwick, when a review of the security tape would assist in establishing the veracity of the claims.  If a yout had a firearm and assaulted a citizen in the same manner he would be before the courts. THESE WERE THE CLAIMS OF MOTTLEY AT THE EAGLE HALL BLP MEETING ON SUNDAY NIGHT. Is Thompson running scared, hiding out, or has Hartley Henry advised him to lay low until it blows over because his political  capital is such that he can disrespect Bajans so. Or has HH advised him to lay low until another situation can be created or used as a distraction?

Standing at political meetings is not my speed, especially these BLP meetings long before an election is called.  My thought was what was the point of that strategy until a supporter indicated to me, that if you can’t get media coverage what else do you do. I got there late and was quite surprised to see the crowd at Eagle Hall. Wow BLP in a fighting mood. I am not good at estimating but don’t let Hartley Henry fool you, it was a crowd, like what you would find at a political meeting in the swing of things. Watching crowd reaction I realised that it was not made up of only BLP’s but had a mix of ordinary Barbadians and DEMS. They are easily recognisable by the non-responsiveness to partisan shots.  But by far the most non-BLP’s were ordinary Barbadians, who seemed to be concerned and wanted to hear what had happened and  get the other side of the story. They had very strong reactions to the revelations made during the meeting.

Here’s what they got from Dale Marshall: He stepped outside of parliamentary privilege and called Estwick’s bluff, and stated  Estwick drew a gun on me’.

Here’s what they got from Mia Mottley :

Forensic audit is necessary for CLICO. Parris facilitated by the cooperation and silence of Thompson has become a law unto himself, intent on doing what is in his interest to the detriment of the well-being of Barbadians. Not only did he cash in investments worth over 250,000.00 from CLICO Mortgage; but Parris,  just four days prior to the signing of a memorandum of understanding with the Barbados government,received a cheque on behalf of another of his personal companies, getting business from CLICO.  Miss Mottley said that Branlee Management Services Inc. was a management consulting firm, owned by Parris and his wife, registered at no.8 Dayrell’s Hill St. Michael,incorporated by Thompson. She quoted the BNB cheque no. and stated the amount received was over $800,000.  This payment would  have become illegal if issued four days  later as the memorandum of understanding had as one of its conditions that dividends, bonuses etc must not be made without permission of the government.

Was it coincidental that Thompson had a meeting with Parris and CLICO on the memorandum the same day the cheque was issued?

Our bloggers can draw their own conclusions My opinion is that it is time and more in the interest of integrity, accountability, honesty and decency to deal with the CLICO matter. Where is the judicial management, where is the forensic audit? Any fallout not only hurts policyholders but will hurt taxpayers who will have to shoulder the bill for Barbados and the $1 billion EC for the OECS countries. Thompson should dismiss Parris from CBC. But that may be difficult with Parris as a DLP guest at Families First ball, along with the Central bank governor shaking his booty as family and friends.


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139 responses to “CLICO's Noose Draws Tighter”

  1. Doan Beat Muh Soul I Just Askin' Avatar
    Doan Beat Muh Soul I Just Askin’

    THIS is my first time visiting this site and i don’t usually blog, but i am so glad that someone brought up the issue of this Families First club started by Mr. Thompson while he was in opposition. Suddenly they are very busy. I was just wondering where the money would have come from to:
    (1)host the Errol Barrow Day free fete in St. John which featured not only speakers, but performers from Antigua, Guyana and Dominica(?),
    (2)donate tools to some group (dodn’t remember the name) and
    (3)recently host the ‘Inaugural Prime Minister’s Ball’. Also I’m sure the black man with the perm brought in was not free!!!

    Also I find it interesting how D supporters always get so lowdown and dirty when someone mentions any (obvious) short-comings of the present government. (Reminds me of Estwick and Sinckler). No need to get so personal.

    Where is the PM though? I heard something about F Stuart acting…..

    Why does the governor of the central bank have such strange poses when he is giving his reports….?

    I jus’ askin…doan beat muh!!!!


  2. To the PDC
    Idealism never quite works out in the real world with an extreme approach, often the perfect becomes the enemy of the good and nothing gets done. PDC would remain a fringe group and the DLP and BLP thugs continue.
    I am philosophically against all forms of taxations, but I’m also intelligent enough to know if it sounds too extreme the people will not accept it. That is one of the fundamental issues with idealistic radical departures from current pervasive thinking. Momentum and inertia are more than physical phenomena, they apply to thought as well.

    To quote you “But, you could have never said so because you do NOT have a FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM WITH THE EXISTENCE OF TAXATION!!”
    Sorry if I have misled you but you are incorrect in that assumption. A major problem with “Abolish all taxation” is very few people will take you seriously, the demos is much like a very large stone, and it is already moving in a direction, which you would like to change. For aspiring to do that I commend you, and for the courage to suggests it more so. But here the issue is, if you promise half and deliver full in stages….. you are more likely to achieve your goal. Do not be naive, there are very powerful forces that do not want to abolish taxation…. Very hungry and large piggies indeed, one must temper one’s pride/ego and realize you will have to walk before you run…. Even if you can run, you might have to sneak up on these fat piggies and bring them to market or justice?
    Do not under estimate the power of deception, a tool you may well have to wield, if you are to defeat them. That is one of the reasons for the nickname… I read a translation of “The Prince” when I was a child, and thought as such, naive with my concepts of GOOD and EVIL. Also read Mein Kampf as a child… and thus I realized that the good that is never actualized can become the greatest evil of all.
    Abolition of all taxes is a idea, to be held sacred, to those with the master plan to get there…. Not for the fantasizing of the electorate…
    Government should be very small and very efficient. But now it is like a drunk and taxes is the alcohol….surely it needs to be weaned of the bottle. Remember it is the single largest employer in this country, and the single largest contributor to inefficiencies in the country. Inefficiencies that allow a level of corruption high enough to sustain those who can otherwise little support themselves…..they will not go quietly.
    What makes the demos? Many people who, as nice as the idea of no taxation sounds, will see only the reality of having to find a job. If the civil service was truly efficient it would be less than 1/2 its current size but that is a discussion for another time.

    I can’t go along with no interest rates, lending money involves risks and interest is a measure to counter that also on the savings side it is helps encourage saving. I mainly oppose the size of the spread which I think is unfair to depositors. Banks are another group of piggies in dire need of a diet.

    P.S It is exceedingly presumptuous to assume that what is not said by someone is not considered…

    I keep it simple but can well back up my statements, and what I have omitted need not be replaced with a “Strawman” I am well aware of debt to GDP ratios.
    ALL economic data in this country on GDP is bullshit as it does not accurately reflect the contribution of prostitution, drugs, gambling etc.. not exactly areas of heavy taxation??

    Unless you want government by means other than the ballot box, you are going have to be more sophisticated and seductive. Good luck in your endeavors.


  3. PDC

    I almost forgot, nice try with the reductio ad absurdum. Hahahaha

  4. Donald Duck Esq Avatar
    Donald Duck Esq

    Can someone tell me who paid for al sharpton to visit barbados and attend the families first function.

    Are the financial statements of families first audited and available for inspection?

  5. Donald Duck Esq Avatar
    Donald Duck Esq

    Could somone tell me how the families first organisation is registered in Barbados?

    I don’t see it appearing on the CAIPO database as Families first.

  6. Donald Duck Esq Avatar
    Donald Duck Esq

    Read mr boos’s article on clico in today’s nation. He is very right in being critical of the two former retired partners of clico’s auditors being on the oversight committee. I have quacked on about this for a while and no one has listened. They should now immediately excuse themselves from the committee!!!!!


  7. Cut a long long story short, tell us if all of these revelations bad and corrupt. Call a spade a spade and stop the ‘cammafoul’.Brek if down for the dull and ignorant.

  8. Donald Duck Esq Avatar
    Donald Duck Esq

    by PETER N. BOOS

    Extract from Wikipedia:

    Cyril Lucius Duprey (1897-1988) was a Trinidad and Tobago businessman. He founded the Colonial Life Insurance Company (CLICO, now part of the C.L. Financial Group) in 1936, the first locally-owned insurance company. The company was expanded into the C.L. Financial Group, which is run by his nephew Lawrence Duprey.

    In 1956, Duprey was awarded the Order of the British Empire. His nephew is now the chairman of C.L. Financial.

    Give a man value, give a man service and he will support you. – Philosophy of Cyril Duprey founding father of CLICO.

    WIKIPEDIA needs updating for latest developments. But the point here is the historical one.

    Mr Cyril Duprey was a man before his time and a businessman whose achievements need to be acknowledged beyond his OBE and beyond just Trinidad. There are far too few black business icons in the Caribbean, and Cyril Duprey’s reputation needs to be kept intact now.

    Regrettably those who followed him did not appear to understand the importance of what he had really achieved and succeeded in presiding over the demise of a once great Caribbean business.

    It is indeed a shame that one of the oldest, most successful and respected indigenous, black owned and managed Caribbean insurance and financial services companies has had to be bailed out by Caribbean taxpayers and in particular the Government of Trinidad and Tobago.

    Sure as night follows day, the same will be required from taxpayers in Barbados and the Organisation of East Caribbean States in 2010 and well beyond.

    Mr Cyril Duprey must be turning in his grave.

    The damage to Trinidad, Barbados and the wider Caribbean created by CLICO’s failure is going to be felt for many, many years and in many, many ways. Not least of which will be brands and reputations.

    Let’s be clear and not seek to make excuses (as some already have) – CLICO is NOT a casualty of the 2008 recession.

    The recession simply brought into sharp focus the true state of affairs at CLICO and the business model its leadership chose to pursue. That was made very clear by the Trinidad and Tobago Government and the Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago when they took over the running of CLICO in 2008. The record is there for all to see and read.

    The full story is yet to be told but those who know a bit about the history of the rise and fall of CLICO will understand.

    Stay tuned and keep a close watch on this developing story. We need good investigative journalists to tell and record the truth of what really happened and to clearly identify the true reasons for this Caribbean scandal and put the responsibility for the failure in the correct laps. Libel law notwithstanding let the truth be told.

    Media organisations need to invest in training of reporters on economic and business issues. Too many important business stories are unfolding behind closed doors and without adequate public awareness and scrutiny.

    Investor communications is sadly lacking in most public companies in the Caribbean and management is not being sufficiently held to account.

    That was clearly the case with CLICO, which, although owning a controlling interest in a large indigenous publicly traded banking group, Republic Bank, it was allowed to keep the full picture of the C.L. Financial Group obscure from public scrutiny.

    Reports abound that audited financial statements for many subsidiaries in the C.L. Financial Group were often late in being issued and therefore not in compliance with financial sector regulatory requirements. Why was this situation allowed to persist? The public needs answers and facts.

    To simplify it, the post Cyril Duprey leadership of CLICO took the company on a journey that no well-regulated and properly managed insurance company ever can or would take.

    Investments of insurance companies funds are regulated by law and are there to protect the people to whom the funds are owed.

    In CLICO’s case, insurance funds, held in a fiduciary relationship for pensioners, policyholders and depositors, were used to invest in high risk asset purchases, many of which made little or no returns.

    Sugar plantations and other distressed real estate in Barbados being glaring examples.

    Interest rates promised to depositors were well above normal commercial rates offered by banks or other insurance companies.

    This financial model is not a viable equation for any business far less for an insurance company. Policyholders, depositors and pensioners of insurance companies expect prudence, low risk, high security and integrity from their insurers and their managers.

    They also should be able to place confidence in regulators to ensure compliance.

    Yet this was allowed to happen right under the noses of the financial regulators across the Caribbean. Why did this happen? We must find out.

    Where were the politicians and business leaders when this was happening? Who raised the alarm bells? Why didn’t anyone listen?

    Now in Barbados we have the scenario of hundreds of millions of dollars in pension contributions, policyholders’ funds and deposits owed to hundreds of Barbadians being at serious risk.

    The exact size of the problem and the solutions are soon to be disclosed.

    Without the support of taxpayers in Trinidad, Barbados and elsewhere in the Caribbean CLICO cannot continue to operate.

    CLICO as we knew it is finished.

    Governments of the Caribbean must be transparent and communicate properly with the public as the CLICO story unfolds. Let the chips fall where they must.

    If laws or ethical standards of good corporate governance have been breached let’s find out and let those responsible face the consequences. It is time that we become more mature about such matters.

    Too often we hear of scandalous behaviour, but little of consequence ever follows other than the mandatory enquiry. The list is long.

    Deterrence and real penalties are needed as well as stronger regulation which is enforced.

    Conflicts of interest and lack of independence in small communities is endemic. But surely leaders in the private and public sectors in Barbados and elsewhere need to be more careful than ever in the current economic climate?

    Mr William Layne, a very senior and highly respected, experienced civil servant in the Ministry of Finance, who is also chairman of the Oversight Committee of CLICO in Barbados, must be congratulated and thanked profusely for publishing the statement that he did on April 25, 2010. Much more transparency like this is needed now.

    In a financial failure of this magnitude, the role of the auditors is always likely to come into the spotlight.

    In the interest of total transparency and to avoid any prospect of a charge of conflicts of interest being raised, the appropriateness of two former senior partners of the firm that is still the current auditor of the failed CLICO serving on the Oversight Committee must be addressed.

    The two gentleman in this awkward position are men of integrity but surely they should excuse themselves from these duties in the circumstances.

    The issue of real estate asset valuations and the appropriateness of other complex financial and inter-group transactions, both prior to CLICO’s collapse but also now, is certainly going to become an issue as a rescue plan is promulgated.

    If the Government of Barbados must save and protect depositors and pensioners, let it be done in the right way and be open to public scrutiny and be on the appropriate commercial terms.

    To do any less is to put the Barbados business brand at risk.

    Much more is at stake here than the reputation of a few people.

    *Peter N. Boos, FCA, is managing editor of BusinessBarbados.com


  9. We are having an avalanche of analysis on the CLICO affair, how fortunate.

    Where were these these people when the CL Financial was growing in the 90s and early 00’s?

    Boos makes some good point points BUT let us not forget he was and still is part of the establishment which he is committed to protect.

    We should also remember he was and still is part of the establishment which saw CLICO as an outsider through the years.


  10. To the PM, since I know that you read these comments, here’s my word to you.
    I am 27yrs old n the first time I ever paid attention to politics is when the DLP sited to the nation that a time for change was needed, I will also add that , this was the first time that I used my right to vote when I joined thousands of Barbadians who trusted you n your party enough to give you a chance to show us that things can be different and to bring this fresh air of change that you promised.

    It hurts ME that you have buried your head again in the sand n have said nothing

    RE: CLICO
    Mr. Jones and his stupid comments about the lesbianism issue in the schools as being “blown out of proportion”
    the behaviour of MPs from both parties in and outside of Parliment……

    Mr PM your ppl need to hear from you, I need to hear from you.

  11. Donald Duck Esq Avatar
    Donald Duck Esq

    Boos you must remember is still connected to the audit firm who is now doing a review on clico. Remember people in glass houses should not throw stones!!!


  12. Just wait for the next review from the Govenor of the CBB, He might have some information to share on the subject, economic impact and implications for the country. I cant forsee anything less that a full fledge review with all the trimmings.


  13. The comments on this blog relative to the Clico issue have confirmed to me that Barbadians clearly understand the wrong that was done to the policyholders of Clico. It is evident that these policyholders cannot rely on Thompson or the DLP to protect their interest.

    The stupidity and arrogance of Parris and the strange silence of Thompson will cause the taxpayers over a billion dollars by the time they are finish trying to rescue Clico. Why should the taxpayers be asked to bailout Clico when others have misused the policyholder’s money?

    When I revisit the comments and childish behavour displayed by the members of the DLP during the No-Confidence debate on Clico I am appalled that such disrespect and arrogance could have attended this rather serious matter. Today the investments of thousands of ordinary Barbadians, in Clico are in jeopardy. Still the private jet continues to fly, large sums of money finds their way out of the company and into the hands of the perpetrators of this criminal act carried out against honest hardworking Barbadians.


  14. David and DD Esq,

    You may not be aware, but Peter Boos is in a perfect position to comment on the Clico fiasco, and believe me, he is not saying all that he knows.

    Peter Boos, now retired, was the Managing Partner of Ernst & Young, the accounting firm which was auditor of CL Financial up until 2001, (year subject to correction). Ernst & Young chose to resign as auditor when Duprey asked that certain things that Ernst & Young found to be unpalatable be signed off on. I’d say that to give up what must have been a substantial fee on principle was the action of a man of integrity.

    So don’t try to make it appear that he has an axe to grind.


  15. @Inkwell

    How long has Boos been retired?

    Why has it taken him so long to sound off on this matter even before CLICO encountered problems?

    BU’s position is simple, we need people like Boo’s who are/were gatekeepers to valuable information to come to the public to enrich the debate.

  16. Donald Duck Esq Avatar
    Donald Duck Esq

    Inkwell

    what were the things that were found unpalatable?


  17. Boos retired about five years ago. Professional ethics would have prevented him from disclosing confidential information relating to a former client, especially if they were unpalatable. That ethic still applies, but he is of course at liberty to comment on the situation in general terms.

  18. Call a spade... Avatar
    Call a spade…

    As the old people would say, you need to take what Mr. Boos says “with a grain of salt”.
    This is a man who loves to be in the spotlight. Since leaving E&Y has taken on a variety of chairmanships — Invest Barbados; Barbados Legacy Committee (or something like that), Barbados Private Sector Agency. He never stays for too long — just long enough to add the position to his resume. He is hoping to end his career with a knighthood or CHB, so he needs to keep up his profile. Some of you may recall an article he wrote in the Nation, last week about the failures of our tourism industry. It was based entirely on a report by the Barbados Hotel and Tourism Association. Boos added an introduction at the front, and a summary at the end and basically regurgitated the report. The Nation has signed agreement with Business Babados.com to share stories, so you can expect to hear a lot more from Mr. Boos on everything.


  19. Makaveli,

    Great to read that you are “philosophically against all forms of taxations”.

    But, which is NOT in contradiction – as you so sought to make believe – with what we said that “you do NOT have a FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM WITH THE EXISTENCE OF TAXATION!!”.

    Some of the mannerisms in your statements in your last blog do evince that you clearly do NOT HAVE A FUNDMENTAL PROBLEM WITH THE EXISTENCE OF TAXATION – EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE PHILOSOPHICALLY OPPOSED TO ALL TAXATIONS!!

    Por examplo, your asserting that because it sounds too extreme the people will not accept it, is precisely indicative of one reason why YOU DONT HAVE A FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM WITH THE EXISTENCE OF TAXATION – ( hypothetics aside and which take away your argument and show that there is no rejection of our assertion that you do NOT have a fundamental problem with taxation – but that what you are simply seeking to achieve here is really an attempt at disassociation with our statement) FOR THE PEOPLE THAT YOU SO TALK ABOUT HELP TO GUIDE YOUR THINKING – SO MUCH SO THAT IF THEY ACCEPT THE ABOLITION OF IT, YOU WILL NOT HAVE A FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM WITH LETTING IT GO, BUT IF THEY DO NOT ACCEPT IT – OR UNTIL THEY DO SO – YOU WILL NOT HAVE A FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM WITH ITS BEING IN EXISTENCE.

    As for your statement that “you are philosophically against all forms of taxations”, you make a sharp deviation into saying “but I’m also intelligent enough to know if it sounds too extreme the people will not accept it.”, without demonstarting the reasons why you are philosophically against all forms of TAXATION.

    And you commit another fallacy (misreasoned argument): A major problem with “Abolish all taxation” is very few people will take you seriously. Are we NOT dealing with you here??

    Anyhow, you seem philosophically against TAXATION, but somehow against the notion of its COMPLETE ABOLITION at whatever time at least until the people that you talk about are in agreement with it.

    But it is still great to know that you made the statement that: “if you promise half and deliver full in stages….. you are more likely to achieve your goal. Do not be naive, there are very powerful forces that do not want to abolish taxation…. Very hungry and large piggies indeed, one must temper one’s pride/ego and realize you will have to walk before you run…. Even if you can run, you might have to sneak up on these fat piggies and bring them to market or justice?

    Well said, Makaveli!!!

    That is why we are about a phased removal of it anytime we become the government of this country.

    Anyhow, let us move pass such sterile arguments, and become more constructive because – while we cant say who you are right now – it is good to know that you have been among the increasing number of people in Barbados who are becoming more and more against TAXATION in whatever ways – and some of whom are for its ABOLITION.

    The truth is that we are and will NOT be a fringe political group in Barbados.

    One reason is that we are dealing with issues and matters that are at the centre of society, politics and goverrnment in Barbados.

    Our suggestion to you is to help us and by extension help the people of Barbados see the removal of TAXATION in this country.

    We will deal with the matter of the Abolition of Interest Rates with you at a later date.

    So long, Makaveli.

    PDC


  20. Today’s Nation newspaper readers’ poll asked the question:

    “Do you agree or disagree with the decision by the Speaker to eject two Opposition MPs from the House of Assembly?”

    The results are interesting and informative

    Agree. (576)

    Disagree. (744)

    Neutral (64)

    Total Votes: 1384

    Seems that more people feel that the necessity for information on the Clico issue outweighs the necessity for “proper ” behavior in Parliament.

    In thIs whole matter, the Government, in its apparent attempt to suppress discussion, has shot itself in the foot and achieved exactly the opposite result. Out thought and out manouvered by the LOTO?

  21. Donald Duck Esq Avatar
    Donald Duck Esq

    Inkwell

    Won’t professional ethics still dictate that because of his position in the firm ( remember he retired but still maintained some position) he should not make such comments.


  22. Was there any poll done on ” Guns in Parliament’. Any body got the results?

  23. The DLP Is Robbing Taxpayers Blind Avatar
    The DLP Is Robbing Taxpayers Blind

    WHAT MATTERS MOST: Baico is Clico!

    Published on: 5/7/2010.

    by CLYDE MASCOLL

    ON NOVEMBER 2, 2009, the governments of the Eastern Caribbean Currency Union (ECCU) proposed a new insurance company to assume the traditional life insurance, medical insurance and annuity business of British American branches in the Eastern Caribbean. The new company is to be capitalised by ECCU governments, Trinidad and Tobago, Barbados, and one or more strategic investors.

    In the memorandum of understanding between the government of Trinidad and Tobago and CL Financial Limited dated January 30, 2009, British American Insurance Limited was, to the surprise of many Barbadians, identified as an affiliate, along with CLICO (Trinidad) and CLICO Investment Bank.

    It was further revealed that CLICO Holdings (Barbados) had more concentration of insurance risk in the Eastern Caribbean than in Barbados. In recent weeks, the public has learnt that the sale of the Executive Flexible Premium Annuity (EFPA) is the main source of the company’s problems.

    According to the 2007 annual report of CLICO Holdings (Barbados), the annuities accounted for BDS$250.1 million of the company’s total insurance risk in Barbados of BDS$282.2 million in 2007. In the Eastern Caribbean, the annuities accounted for BDS$325.7 million of the company’s risk of BDS$355.2 million. This is the source of my concern – now upgraded to fear – especially for the Eastern Caribbean!

    Around early August 2009, regulators in the ECCU and the Bahamas appointed judicial managers to take control of the operations of British American Insurance Company (BAICO). So far they have reported that:

    (1) the liabilities of the BAICO branches in the Eastern Caribbean total BDS$777.7 million, of which BDS$653.3 million are annuities or investment contracts;

    (2) the branches of BAICO in the Eastern Caribbean are not stand-alone legal entities and

    (3) in the event of a liquidation of BAICO, policyholders will not be paid in full.

    According to the issue by governments of the ECCU, ” . . . it is probable that if BAICO was liquidated, policyholders [would] only get ten cents on their dollar. This means if you have an annuity of $1 000, you would only receive $100″.

    The evidence in its annual report suggests that CLICO Holdings (Barbados) is highly exposed in the Eastern Caribbean, given the extent of its sale of annuities. In fact, the statement issued by the governments of the ECCU confirmed that CLICO Holdings (Barbados) “is the parent company of all CLICO branches in the Eastern Caribbean”.

    The governments of the ECCU were informed by the Government of Barbados that CLICO Mortgage Finance Company and CLICO General Insurance had already been sold.

    The statement goes further.

    “It is the understanding of ECCU governments that the completion of these sales will provide CLICO Holdings (Barbados) with resources to meet its obligations to all of its investors and policyholders, including those in the Eastern Caribbean countries.”

    The Government of Barbados is involved in capitalising the new insurance company to assume the life and medical insurance and annuity business of BAICO in the Eastern Caribbean because CLICO Holdings (Barbados) is the parent company of all CLICO branches in the Eastern Caribbean. Furthermore, BAICO is an affiliate of CLICO’s parent company CL Financial Limited.

    Perhaps, the public is now fully aware of my deep concern that the Government of Barbados is committed to ensuring that there is no loss of principal by any investor in CLICO Holdings (Barbados) and its affiliates. This is a policy with tremendous reach that is as clear as mud!

    Certainly, the issues concerning CLICO in Barbados and the Eastern Caribbean are of urgent public importance, especially since the Government is committing not just policy but taxpayers’ money to a possible resolution of the problems.

    There is one clear strategy, that is, to prevent the public from having the facts such that the matter appears to be one of politics rather than one of competence. If ever there was a need for a forensic audit, it is now.

    * Clyde Mascoll is a professional economist and former Government minister in the last Barbados Labour Party administration.


  24. A wise woman told me once that the only people who tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth are little children and old people and it is because

    Little children , not no money,no mortgages, no jobs and no status, and so have nothing to lose by telling even painful truths.

    Old people are in life’s departure lounge and have become answerable only to God, so it is in their interest to make it right with God by telling the truth.

    In the CLICO issue I choose to believe that the old retired man Boos is telling the truth.


  25. “Donald Duck Esq // May 7, 2010 at 9:28 AM …Inkwell…Won’t professional ethics still dictate that because of his position in the firm ( remember he retired but still maintained some position) he should not make such comments.”

    J asks:

    When it comes to crunch time and we have to choose between maintaining “professional ethics” and maintaining a clean conscience what should we do?


  26. Wulloss thats a hard one, a lawyer minister could help out with this one.

  27. Sylvan Greenidge Avatar
    Sylvan Greenidge

    This has got to be the saddest day in Barbados. When callers, concerned policyholders, concerned citizens and taxpayers, whose money is being used to pay back the millions squandered by Clico can be barred from commenting on the Clico issue on the call-in programmes, then I say political oppression and dictatorship has taken over Barbados.

    Thank God that we have a robust Opposition Leader in the person of the brilliant Mia Mottley to speak out against the malfeasance of this Thompson administration.


  28. “(1) the liabilities of the BAICO branches in the Eastern Caribbean total BDS$777.7 million, of which BDS$653.3 million are annuities or investment contracts”

    But that is even more than the cost of Dodds Prison!!!


  29. It is simply Mathematics

    On the MOU
    Equation 1
    C+G= 0(zero) i.e no real agreement as G is a negative integer (i.e in debted to C) and C is a positive integer ( they gave G money in the past that converted G from O into G)

    C=Cl
    G=Gov
    O=Opp

    As for the senior audit partner X.. and “firm that audited Cl” Y

    Equation 2
    X = Y – Q where Q is all the other partners and interests

    Equation 3
    (Y)C [ponzi scheme] = P “is profits” ill gotten gains AKA fraud or teefing

    G hires X as It is time for the application of
    Equation 4

    Gsubscript1 – T = Gsubscript2 where T is the variable “tax payers dollars”

    Csubscript1 then becomes Csubscript2
    OR

    Equation 5
    Csubscript2 = Csubscript1 + P where P is profit destined for another cycle through equation 3

    As Y gains by the perpetuity of the money zombie i.e the variable C

    Equations 1 through 5 are known in simple English as Corruption.


  30. PDC

    Philosophical opposition to taxation is based, on there being no actual proof (that i know of) for a “state” having any right to exist on the basis of money (productive output) taken from citizens who are suppose to be what makes that very entity “state” exists. This is made worst by fiat money which all falls on the taxpayers head. As currently applied the concept of money is almost as big a problem as taxation, because taxation is the final justification for the fiat currency to exist in the first place….. what a mess!!


  31. Makaveli,

    You said your “philosophical opposition to taxation is based on there being no actual proof (that i know of) for a “state” having any right to exist on the basis of money (productive output) taken from citizens who are supposed to be what makes that very entity “state” exists.”

    Ok, but the so-called state’s existence is definitely for far more fundamental reasons than taxation, and with proof being provided.

    Visit (again) the Social Contract theory vis a vis Hobbes, Locke, Rosseau.

    We dont believe in this social contract theory, however.

    Too, hypothetical and general and therefore its proponents merely attempted to construct a theory after the fact.

    But, according to Michael Stewart, in his book – The British Approach to Politics – pg 15 – in distinguishing the State from the Government, said that “the State is the permanent organization of law and order, and the Government is the particular people to whom, for a time, the task of carrying out the law has been entrusted.”

    A more modern definition but one that is still too westernized too biassed towards concepts of democratic government, is derived from Wikipedia, which says that “a State is a set of institutions that possess the authority to make the rules that govern the people in one or more societies, having internal and external sovereignty over a definite territory (wikipedia.org).

    In its attempt to define the state, wikipedia has also made mention of the Weberian definition, that the state is that organization that has a “monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force within a given territory”.

    “It ( the state) thus includes such institutions as the armed forces, civil service or state bureaucracy, courts, and police.”( Wikipedia.org)

    The state – for us though – notwitstanding that it is an abstraction – notwitstanding that it exists only – as a word – in the mind – and notwithstanding that it does NOT have an objective existence outside of the minds of the human beings who purport to represent it and outside the multifarious effects they produce in its name, has some very bad psychological political signficances from the point of view that this idea of the state would have been primarily developed years ago by particular Europeans primarily to foster ill doings and wrong doings, and to so remove legal responsibility from themselves for acts/omissions that they have would have comitted to many of their own people and to many others – and thus developed for others world over to accept as this big stupid piece of monstrous fiction a massive sleight of hand legerdemainic huge mythology – that there is this state that exists – and that has been there for many more to see and realize.

    So, even when Andrew Heywood in his text: Politics – on pg 85 – remarked that “it is possible to identify the origins of the modern state in the emergence in 15th century and 16th century Europe of a system of centralized rule that succeded in subordinating all other institutions and groups, spiritual and temporal”, there were other so-called successful attempts later at such kinds of intellectual manipulation.

    Thus, also the artifical legal concept of legal personality, e.g a company that supposedly has this legal personality outside of its human members.

    Therefore, Makaveli, we respect the fact that you have the word – state – between inverted commas.

    We again venture to say it does not even exist in the mind – only the word/image!!

    But, yes, it is these human members whose actual behaviours values attitudes etc. have helped to and that are still continuing to falsely define the “state’ and its so-called behaviour in the minds of many many people.

    Nevertheless, it is absolutely necessary and beneficial in net terms to have a certain set of people that many people in Barbados and elsewhere have come to know in this contemporary era as the government of a country and who are also necessary to have – from the point of view that their roles and functions as these relate to helping to provide for the many fundamental things that every body here and elsewhere in a modern society thinks are also necessary and beneficial to have and to continue with – as that – every body in the global society cannot and will not be able to provide for themselves and by extension will not be individually capable of looking after the interests of the betterment of the wider society.

    Such a group is also necessary to, et al, help provide social/welfare services in the country, and beyond it if possible;

    To better balance and manage the balance between security and anarchy; between liberty and tyranny; between comformity and cooperation; between autonomy and sovereignty – and wherever possible such in other places.

    To help provide a function in the further building and development of the state itself and the nation, and if possible some other states and some other nations.

    To represent a number of citizens that are subject to their laws – in the international sphere and to do the same with regard to citizens of other jurisdictions that are subject to the laws of other governments.

    In regard of this right of certain people anywhere to exist, and to do things – as a group – in the public’s interests/common good, we strongly believe that such a right needs to exist in a modern day era and as such such people (government) exercizing such a right to exist and manage the affairs of the wider people in a well defined geographical space in so far as they would have the authority or legitimacy from the people within that space to do these things, or in circumstances whereby they do not habitually offend or breach the rights of other managers/people representing other people and regions to exist and manage their own affairs without outside intereference.

    Despite those fundamentals, there are however behaviours of these certain people (called the government) which ought NOT NEVER EVER BE ALLOWED TO EXIST.

    And behaviours which – even though there may be some good involved at the end – that do NOT EVER justify proceeding with or carrying out such behaviours in the first place.

    One such behaviour is TAXATION.

    Such behaviour is repugnant, gross and backward in Barbados and in any other place where it exists.

    It is repugnant, gross and backward for these people in Barbados and elsewhere to instruct other public officals to steal and rob (TAX) from the incomes (property) of the relevant incomes of others.

    And worse it is absolutely horrendous abominable for them then to take portions and then instruct the same public officials to give some of them very immorally or in whatever ways under whatever guises to themselves – the government – and many others – esp. some of their family, friends, and such like – directly – as payments for working in Government, or indirectly – as income on a public/private sector contractual basis.

    For, it is these same people ( government ) and many of other classes like them previously, that have sworn to uphold legislation that has been passed by others like them that makes it criminal offences to steal and rob others, and that has been allowing for other people called judges/magistrates to punish any persons in the Barbados jurisdiction that have been tried and convicted for stealing robbing.

    The fact that such persons are incapable of stealing from themselves – these ones giving instructions from the Cabinet – under a system of TAXATION – makes the lust by such people and others like them for public office more damning and more clear.

    What is far more despicable is that these people (government) – after giving all those that work in the public sector – even the ones carrying out their thieving robbing TAXATION instructions, or that do business with the public sector, some portions of the incomes that were stolen in the first place from the incomes of persons in the private sector, are seen to be turning around and falsely instructing those same public officers that ensure that those thieving TAXATION instructions are carried out against the private sector people to FALSELY APPEAR to steal (TAX) – in whatever circumstances – EVEN FROM THEMSELVES WHICH IS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE – and at whatever times – some portions from the portions of the stolen incomes that those same public sector employees would have wrongfully got through their despicable behaviour.

    And this catholic lies and destruction, after all those public officers and the ones that were instructed to REALLY TAX the incomes of those in the private sector and to FALSELY APPEAR TO TAX those in the public sector even themselves – WOULD NOT HAVE GENERATED A SINGLE SHRED OF INCOME NOT AN IOTA OF INCOME AT ALL – AS PUBLIC SERVANTS – even though they received stolen loot – and as said before – some of which was in many cases stolen from the respective people’s businesses’ and other entites’ generated incomes in the private sector here and elsewhere.

    So, Makaveli, TAXATION has nothing to do with fiat money issued by the government, and the government therefore seeking the money’s return as you so suggested – given that TAXATION IS THEFT OF SOME PORTIONS OF THE INCOMES OF THE RELEVANT OTHERS BY PERSONS CALLED THE GOVERNMENT, and given that money – because it circulates very much – will always go back into the financial system that the government controls.

    So, by reason of the fact that the government is the sole issuer and regulator of genuine local currency, does it not stand to reason that the government does NOT have to tax?

    With all of the resources and assets that Thompson and company do have at their disposal – it is clear that – as Ministers of Government – they do NOT have to TAX steal from the incomes of the relevant individuals, busineses and others in this country.

    Does Cave Sheperd and Company TAX anybody?

    Does Goddards Enterprises? Barbados Shipping and Trading? Makaveli?

    So, ask yourself and some others why governments steal from others via TAXATION – given those and other realities!!

    PDC

  32. Donald Duck Esq Avatar
    Donald Duck Esq

    1. Why has the Minister of Finance been so silent on this issue?
    2. Why did he not let the Speaker allow the debate on the misselling of the policies in question?
    3. Why is it the public cannot get its hands on a set of the 2008 financial statements of clico life barbados?
    4. Why is it the government allowed British american insurance, clico mortgage. clico life and clico general not to publish its abbreviated financial statements in the press by the due date of april 30?

    Why o Why?

  33. Goldban and Clico Sucks Avatar
    Goldban and Clico Sucks

    What type of society is David Thompson building and with whom is he building it
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Why is Clico in such a mess – when Prime Minister Thompson told this country that he is fully satisfied that Clico’s Barbadian operations: “were sound,” “prudently managed and well regulated” and that the money of investors, depositors and policy holders, is safe?

    Having promised transparency and freedom of information, could someone please explain the desperation of the DLP to keep matters relating to Clico “secret” from the same taxpayers of Barbados, who will ultimately have to foot the bill?

    The people of any country must feel that they can trust the words and judgment of their public officials. So that when the then Central Bank Governor Marion Williams also told the people of Barbados that they should have faith in Clico; that “it is a well-run company,” and that they should not remove their money from any subsidiary companies of Clico, Barbadians believed that too.

    Barbadians also believed Prime Minister Thompson when he told them that Barbados did not have a cash-flow problem. The facts have since confirmed that even at the time he was making that ‘unbelievable’ statement – this country was experiencing a serious fiscal crisis. That is to say – government’s expenditure exceeded its revenue.

    Had not for the Barbados Labour Party, which brought a no-confidence motion against the Minister of Finance for his incompetent handling of this Clico fiasco – the people of this country would still be in the dark.

    It is unfortunate but the entire DLP continues to wrap itself in the Clico’s flag, instead of standing with workers, policy holders and depositors of that company, as the Barbados Labour Party is doing. In fact, one DLP Minister described the no-confidence motion as: “frivolous and vexatious,” while another labelled it: “alarmist, offensive and scandalous.”

    Despite the fear and suffering of ordinary Barbadians, Clico is well positioned to defend itself against all and any charge because of it being in bed with and under the sheets with the DLP. In fact, it would be fair to say that given the DLP’s recent acquisition, Clico is now well positioned to rewrite any and all rules in this country.

    It is therefore obvious to many that Clico is manufacturing the legal battlefield on which it will fight and that despite the overwhelming nastiness about it, which is being unveiled by the Barbados Labour Party, the DLP feels that it has nothing to worry about.

    The DLP does not care about those persons who are not happy that they have either been defrauded but definitely cannot get their money. It is in Parliament simply to serve Clico and protect Leroy Parris.

    The difficulty for justice remains getting some Barbadians to even begin to understand what financial crime is. To them, crime is not even pulling a gun on a former Attorney General of Barbados, despite the provisions of the Firearms Act.

    Clico is a calamity of the DLP’s making. At all levels of its existence, David Thompson’s DNA and thumb print can be found. It is he and the DLP that created this cesspool. But why must the most vulnerable now pay for the greed of grounded high-flyers, who were once to posh to fly on LIAT?

    Clico is therefore more proof that the Democratic Labour Party is a serious threat to Barbados’ stability, security and democracy. And it will remain a serious threat, as long as it continues to rule this country.

    Clico is also proof that the DLP is an incompetent government, which is on the side of big business and one which obviously gets much pleasure from taking advantage of the weak and watching them suffer.


  34. PDC

    Just a point of clarification, when the government needs money and chooses to borrow, it has to pay interest. Interest is a compound function, which is the problem as government never earns/makes enough to cover the interests on its debts….for any given economic cycle…at least in the last 30 years….interest always surpasses real economic growth, Government turns to taxation to make up the gap….but the debt hole never gets smaller.

    The dollar is hard pegged to the U.S dollar which is pure FIAT…like the Barbados dollar , the USD has no real worth it is just a purely faith based system. Like all FIAT currency the value is continually reduce until it is eventually worth nothing.

    And that is the rub, essentially the most dangerous form of taxation is the relentless issuing of money beyond what is necessary to represent the net worth of goods and services in an economy. Money was never meant to be value in of itself. This form of taxation is spoken of frequently but few recognize it as such, the code name is Inflation. Inflation is a tax on your savings, when ever the money supply is expanded beyond economic activity, the value of the dollars you have saved is reduced….you have been tax. Even if the gov was 100% percent efficient the debt would still expand it is simple maths.

    That is one of the fundamental problems with fiat. But to make it worst the taxpayer is the final surety for the government debt…. LOSE – LOSE for them.


  35. Makaveli,

    “When the government needs money and chooses to borrow, it has to pay interest.” – Makaveli, in the recent above blog.

    You are sure right on that; and to domestic and external sources.

    “Interest is a compound function, which is the problem as government never earns/makes enough to cover the interests on its debts….for any given economic cycle…at least in the last 30 years….interest always surpasses real economic growth.” – Makaveli, in the recent above blog.

    Again, you are indeed right on that when it is clear to us in the PDC that the GOVERNMENT HARDLY EARNS INCOME.

    MOST OF THE INCOME THAT IT GETS ( NOT EARNS ) ON A YEARLY BASIS IS STOLEN ( VIA TAXATION) FROM THE INCOMES OF OTHERS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND GIVEN TO OTHERS WORKING IN GOVERNMENT, TO BANKS AND OTHER CREDITORS – HERE AND OVERSEAS – AND TO OTHERS THAT ARE DOING BUSINESS WITH GOVERNMENT, ETC.

    The little income that the government really earns comes through its participation in the goods and services market system in Barbados and beyond.

    Through esp. Statutory Boards or privately incorporated companies.

    The government also – as you referred to earlier up in your most recent blog ( just above ) – gets loan income on a yearly basis.

    But, according to the Central Bank of Barbados in its 2009 report on the performance of the Barbados economy in 2009, as part of the government’s current expenditure in 2009, the government incurred a staggering BDS $ 305.9 Million ( provisional figure ) in interest payments of which BDS $ 213 Million went to domestic sources, and BDS $ 92 Million went to external sources.

    Well, according to the same 2009 report, the year 2009 saw a contraction by 5.3 in the Real GDP of the country

    About a BDS $ 424 Million contraction in Barbados dollar terms ( using our own GDP estimate).

    But, according to the Central Bank’s first quarter 2010 Press Release in Table 1 ( Main Economic Indicators ) it was a – 4.8 % contraction.

    About a BDS $ 384 Million contraction in Barbados dollar terms (using our own GDP estimate).

    But, let us use the said Press Release’s Table 1 ( Main Economic Indicators ) real growth rate figure of 3.6 % for 2006 to help calculate the the extent of real GDP growth then in Barbados dollar terms.

    We realize a figure of BDS $ 288 Million in growth in Barbados dollar terms.

    Now, according to the 2007 Central Bank Report of the performance of the Barbados economy in 2006, the total interest payments by the government for 2006 was a whopping BDS $ 324 Million – of which BDS $ 202 Million went to domestic sources and BDS $ 121 Million went to external sources.

    These pieces of information confirm your idea – which is something we have long known – that the Barbados dollar value in amount in Interest Payments on loans – including government paper – every year normally exceeds the Barbados dollar value in real growth in the Barbados economy.

    “Government turns to taxation to make up the gap” Makaveli – in the recent above blog…

    Makaveli, could you explain which gap??

    Because we are dealing with two different variables here and which operate and trend differently : (1) Government’s annual interest payments costs, and (2) the annual real GDP growth rate of the country.

    For example, the annual interest rate payments of the government have averaged just over BDS $ 300 million for the last 10 years or so, as over this time too the so called economy has been rising, falling, rising and now falling again.

    And remembering too that there are also interest rates costs incurred by the individual sectors, the private sectors – the financial and non-financial private sectors in the country.

    And such rationalizations before we can agree or disagree with your assertion that the Government “turns to taxation to make up the gap.”

    But, yes, surely the deep hole gets bigger!!

    “And that is the rub, essentially the most dangerous form of taxation is the relentless issuing of money beyond what is necessary to represent the net worth of goods and services in an economy. Money was never meant to be value in of itself.” Makaveli – in the recent above blog.

    Could you explain that assertion?

    For, there is really a fundamental difference between money and income and TAXATION.

    Our very steeped view is that money – in the narrowest of senses – coinage, bills – is the only commodity that carries an inherent value – a digitized denominated objective value.

    Any other value relative to it must come through its being related by human beings to itself – as a commodity that is bought and sold like any other – and that is related (by human beings) to other non-money commodities in the wider market system.

    The latter part involves giving money a psychologicalized value based on what one thinks is the worth of a good or service as this money/value is exchanged for such a good or service.

    We will differ with you on Inflation.

    Where we in PDC are concerned there is nothing such as inflation.

    Simply because inflation DOES NOT EXIST – IT CANNOT BE SENSED IN ANY REGARD.

    It is a pure ideological statistically derived construct wrapped in the most sinister and brute of mythological and intellectually dishonest tinsels that could ever be imagined!!

    It is such that informs part of the basis why much money/value is taken out of the money circulation process in Barbados and many other places through the use of backward monetary policies of the Thatcherist Reaganistic conservative type to help make millions and millions across the world poor impoverished weak
    and more dependent on elites and governments and a few others for their survival whilst making the few richer and the governments stronger.

    For some, inflation is defined as a sustained upward rise in general prices for a given period of time in a so-called economy.

    But, what are prices?

    For us, prices are really the things bargained for and agreed to in commodity and services contracts – cups, stoves, shoes, dresses, cars, houses, hairstyles, etc any thing that can be bought or sold realistically or putatively.

    Surely, these are bought and sold in varying numbers anywhere.

    Truth, though, is that their applicable, respective psychologized digitized potential/money exchange values rise and fall for various reasons in the market processes.

    Such processes see those values being applied or directed externally to such commodities and services by millions and millions of human beings on a daily basis across the world – whether or NOT they are in possession of money or in possession of any other instruments that indicate payment will come.

    Such values are what many persons refer to as “prices” (not us again)

    But there is absolutely no way of measuring these billions and billions of values across world – millions and millions of values in Barbados – on a yearly basis – to say whether these so-called prices have really gone – going up down or across, whatever, etc.

    Whilst there are millions of individual values (absolute/relative) that are in agreement with many others over what the worth is of many goods and services in Barbados, there are also many millions of these values are not in full or partial agreement with other persons’ values of such goods and services – for whatever reasons.

    That is one reason why many goods are left on supermarket store shelves racks unsold services are left unused on a given day in Barbados – why some bills are not completely paid up etc.

    And, here, we are not so much dealing with intentions and motives behind the immediately afore mentioned but the notion of real outcomes.

    What we believe in though is the (money) cost of living and doing business anywhere.

    Such terms are positive as that they relate very much to personal, businesses, or any other entities’ income that is was spent in any so-called economy and that can in many cases be measured by individuals, businesses and others to, et al, identify any changes, if any, in what it costs them and others to buy or sell these goods and services in money terms at any given time.

    Indeed, these cost of living and business aspects cannot be measured by government or by any government entity even if they blatantly misrepresent such, simply because there are far far too many goods and services business transactions in the country for it or any body else to know the total picture these transactions represent.

    So, whereas inflation does NOT exist, taxation wickedly DOES – FOR it is theft.

    Too, can you explain this: “Inflation is a tax on your savings” without being tautological and hypothetical, Makaveli?

    First, for a wikipedia definition of the money supply, it says that: “in economics, (the) money supply or money stock, is the total amount of money available in an economy at a particular point in time.[1] There are several ways to define “money,” but standard measures usually include currency in circulation and demand deposits.

    And properly explain this: “when ever the money supply by (how much?) is expanded beyond economic activity ( time period?)”. – Makaveli – in the recent above blog.

    Outside the the fact that your statement is incomplete, we are absolutely certain that the total money supply in use never goes beyond the juxtaposed value of so-called economic activity in Barbados in any one given year – not even a half or a quarter of year – using real GDP as one guide.

    Furthermore – not even a fair amount of the money supply is used up daily in the week for so-called economic activity – something smaller than that!!

    In any proper financial accounting system there must be a fair balance struck between assets and liabilities within that system.

    Finally, explain this: “the value of the dollars you have saved is reduced….you have been taxed”. Makaveli again in the recent above blog.

    Again, there are fundamental differences between money, income and TAXATION.

    Because savings and by extension income are NOT commodities, their extant monetised values are theoritically independent of notions that they are being increased or decreased by the cost of living and doing business in the country.

    There are affected primarily when banks and other fianncial institutions directly add or subtract from them through different internal costs interest rates, transaction fees etc.

    Something by the way though, the actual amounts actually saved in income by persons and other entities in the financial system in Barbados are actually SAVED – meaning made secure – only to the extent that the PONZI schemes that financial institutions in Barbados run do not collapse.

    So there you go, Makaveli.

    Until!!

    PDC


  36. “Our very steeped view is that money – in the narrowest of senses – coinage, bills – is the only commodity that carries an inherent value – a digitized denominated objective value.”

    Maybe for you, it should be this way. I can’t argue with that. But money surely has no defined intrinsic value in our fiat system. Something people discover during extreme natural disasters is that the man with food, water and security has “money” . When you live in civilization long enough, money being real in of itself is one of the most popular delusions… Fundamentally its worth is based on the belief that someone will afford to you some good or services because they believe said money is appropriate compensation…..it is only a rational thing to do if the seller believes he can then spend money received on something else. Some modern economists would have you believe economics was born with the invention of money, but there have been moneyless economies in the past…. i.e major system was transactions as gift, minor system was barter.
    It is large scaled economies that are based on money as a commodity like any other commodity wheat, corn, oil, iron etc. While the commodity basis held some truth in past civilizations such as Rome and her silver mines. It holds no basis for current fiat systems, this is exemplified by the USA and the federal reserve system….money is simply numbers in a computer system. There seems to be no limit to the amount of money they will issue…digital money has virtually no mass, infinitely divisible, no shelf life of sorts. It is called credit but it is really debt that is impossible to pay back. The fed knows this, the gov knows this, they have no intention of ever paying back. If they decide tomorrow not to honor any of the usd treasury bills China holds, what can China do……nothing. That is what the insurance policy called nuclear weapons is for. They (USA) have gain all those goods, the results of labor and natural resources For what?? money??? For treasury bills? for IOUs..this can be made void by one signature of the president of the USA.
    Pegging to a fiat currency of this nature is simple fiat by extension, with the associated government obsession about foreign exchange reserves.

    Makaveli, could you explain which gap??
    Because we are dealing with two different variables here and which operate and trend differently : (1) Government’s annual interest payments costs, and (2) the annual real GDP growth rate of the country.

    Not quite, I mean the gap between what number (1) Government’s annual interest payments costs and what the Gov makes without taxation. While not the same as the real GDP what the government “earns outside of taxation” is still connected.

    As you correctly identified Gov has to pay approx 300million per annum and the economy may be rising, flat or failing. Gov worries only if it has to tax so heavy that the political future of the members who comprise it is at risk…This Gov or any one of the DLP or BLP will tax as much as they can get away with politically. The teefing part of the equation is a much longer discussion for another time.

    On the subject of Inflation as taxation. While the Gov does not take an actual quantifiable amount of money from your savings what is taken is purchasing power. As an aside, our hard peg to the USD is a major source of the devaluation of purchasing power…USD devalues, the BDS devalues, simple as that, kind of like importing inflation but I digress.
    More specific to the Barbados economy, the USA inflates the money supply by proxy…this also applies to many states the world over. To be fair the main source of the inflation “tax” is really not the Barbados gov, but they are complicit in the entire scheme of things.
    Let me be as clear as possible, I use inflation to mean “an increase in the money supply”, and this might be confusing to some, especially in Barbados with its predominantly Anglo-American approach to economics, but this is a matter of cause/effect. I share the view that the expansion of money supply necessarily precedes the price inflation, in a real material sense….this has more in common with the Austrian school thought. Much of the Anglo-American approach is centered around the Keynesian view of inflation where money supply does not have a direct effect on prices. The last decade of the Anglo-American financial industry illustrates this belief to perfection, but what they failed to understand was that credit was not the problem liquidity was. That whole late 2008 credit freeze shows the simple point that is also demonstrated in nature…you can die of dehydration in Antarctica, surrounded by “potentially” billions of gallons of water. The global ponzi, the dark pools, credit default swaps, collateralized debt obligations, derivatives…..all that junk is in the system as “money” created by the Banks. The Keynesians will argue that these banks expanded the money supply outside of the control of the central banks (fed and bank of England especially) but this is a ruse as the central banks control of interest rates was the final control of how much of that virtual money could be sustained in circulation. The central bank and the central governments therefore can act as kidneys of sorts, controlling the volume that remains in circulation. Money supply must be what is immediately available for exchange, this is a central tenet to my view point, again not dissimilar from Austrian economists. The rate of increase of money supply per unit time thus approximates the real velocity of inflation. The destruction of purchasing power hits those who have a lot of savings hardest, unless they can earn enough to keep up. If massive credit expansion is actualized in the broader economy, it can create hyper-liquidity, if wages and salaries never keep up, consumption is sustained by the credit card reality….and 29% interest rates. But the underlying debt has to be either repaid/restructured, or defaulted, and blowing credit(debt) bubble after bubble does not change the final outcome it only delays it. At the moment the debtors are maxed out the deflationary death spiral begins, consumption falls precipitously …the bottom drops out.

    Something by the way though, the actual amounts actually saved in income by persons and other entities in the financial system in Barbados are actually SAVED – meaning made secure – only to the extent that the PONZI schemes that financial institutions in Barbados run do not collapse.

    100% percent agreement here that point 😀

    N.B I write these things so quickly as I am extremely busy, it is not my intention to confuse. I hope most of the above is clear.


  37. “Fundamentally its worth is based on the belief that someone will afford to you some good or services because they believe said money is appropriate compensation” – Makaveli, in his last above post under this thread, May 14, 12.45 pm.

    Juxtapose the immediately above quote with this: “The latter part ( human beings relating money to non-money commodities in a buying and selling sense ) involves GIVING money a psychologicalized value based on what ONE THINKS IS THE WORTH of a good or service as this money/value is exchanged for such a good or service.” The PDC in an earlier post under this thread.

    So, any “worthing” by any one ( not itself ) of narrow money is, yes, done by the subjective person in relationship to other non-money goods and services in a market or social sense.

    Such “worthing” of narrow money extends even to the amount in income one gets per week, month, etc. – the amount in bills that one has to pay in one week, month, etc.

    Extends some times to many persons being satisfied in their individualized selves that this is the particular worth ……. relative to….. various satisfaction levels about various things.

    Or in prejudgement/expectation of what this money is worth or in prejudgement/expectation of being satisfied that this is what this money is worth in relationship to the historic worths of other non-money goods and services, based on the amount of income received, bills to pay, etc.

    But what we think are the most critical factors in helping to elucidate the notion of the worth of money include but are not limited to :

    1) in cases where the alternative narrow money/value worths of non-money goods/services – which includes relative non-worths – are concerned – is a Sony TV worth as much as or more or less than a Panasonic TV samsung TV – is a Dell computer system worth as much as or more or less than an Apple – IBM computer system?;

    2) in cases where the same amount of money is worth more or less in relationship to the amounts of non-money goods and services that can be bought now as opposed to one year ago/ two years ago – can a BDS $ 10 buy i tin of milk, 1 tin of orange juice, and a pack of rice today like it can one year ago?;

    3) in all cases where money is naturally denominated, there are these similar and different money/non-money goods and services WORTHS in the market and social senses according to how such money is denominated in BDS currency – 1 cent, 5 cents, 10 cents, 25 cents, $ 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100. Surely, the worth of a BDS $ 20 to a poor or rich person buying or selling similar or different goods and services in Barbados may or may NOT be the “same” as the worth of a BDS $ 50 to another poor or rich person buying or selling similar or different goods or services;

    4) in cases where there is the worth of money present in the minds of many persons relative to present/previous money worths of non-money goods and services BUT where there is/was no actual exchanging of money with goods or services – A person goes into a shop in Baxters Road that is selling meats and vegetables – with the intention of buying BDS $ 10 worth of meat and vegetables – but upon looking at the so-called prices – which are too high decides to leave without purchasing.

    Another instance, a person is somewhere in Bridgetown visualizing the worth of money relative to other worths/satifaction levels but against the back drop of believing that some aspects of the cost of living in the country has gone up, decides that a BDS $ 5 is not worth much today and therefore cannot allow him/her to buy much of anything.

    The worth of money is NOT therefore fundamentally based on the belief that someone will afford to you some good or services because they believe said money is appropriate compensation.

    “While the commodity basis held some truth in past civilizations such as Rome and her silver mines. It holds no basis for current fiat systems, this is exemplified by the USA and the federal reserve system….money is simply numbers in a computer system” – Makaveli, in his last above post.

    This part “money is simply numbers in a computer” is a paradoxical statement, Makaveli.

    For, money cannot be money – given the definition or money – and still be at the same time NUMBERS in a COMPUTERS.

    That both conditions cannot logically exist at the same time must mean that you might be misleading us.

    Or do you mean numbers purporting to represent money ( money value )?

    Whatever the case, both situations exist in reality – money as a commodity and money represented in the computer.

    “Not quite, I mean the gap between what number (1) Government’s annual interest payments costs and what the Gov makes without taxation. While not the same as the real GDP what the government “earns outside of taxation” is still connected.” – Makaveli – in the recent above post.

    Ok. Well let us say that the interest payment costs to the Government for the last ten years is just over BDS $ 300 million per year.

    In its 2008 report of the 2008 performance of the Barbados economy, the Central Bank said that the so-called total revenue of the Government was BDS $ 2.462 Billion. So, whereas the theiving activity of government accounted for BDS $ 2.318 Billion, the real stated revenue of government was BDS $ 111 Million.

    Well, remember, ( a), you originally said that “interest ( BDS $ 300 Million plus ) always surpasses real economic growth ( let us use 2006 as an indicator – the same BDS $ 288 Million), so therefore the Government turns to taxation to make up the gap.” – which we thought would have been BDS $ 12 Million in that regard.

    But then, ( b), in your last post you said ( because we could not have understood what you were saying at first) that what you meant was the gap between what number (1) Government’s annual interest payments costs ( BDS $ 300 Million ) and what the Gov makes WITHOUT TAXATION ( BDS $ 111 Million ) – as explaining how the government turns to taxation to make up this gap – which according to your statement would be BDS $ 189 Million.

    Yea, but what exactly would be the essence of your point of clarification in your second last contribution then Makaveli? If we already know that Government wickedly wrongly steals from the incomes of many others (TAXATION) to come by most of the money/value it spends each year?

    And what would be point of your having said “while not the same as the real GDP ( previously stated as BDS $ 6.7 Billion in 2009 – Central Bank 2009 statistics) ( ofcourse – by far) what the government “earns outside of taxation” is still connected?

    “As an aside, our hard peg to the USD is a major source of the devaluation of purchasing power” – Makaveli – in his last above post.

    Totally agree.

    That is one of the reasons we have promulgated that anytime a future PDC Government comes into existence there will be the Abolition of ALL exchange rates parities with the Barbados Dollar, and why we have also promulgated that imports into Barbados will be zero-“priced” at all points of entry – to totally counteract the importation of “prices” of goods and services ( NOT targetting the actual goods and services) from esp. many stronger complex so-called economies like the USA.

    We are NOT an appendage of the USA, UK, EU economIES ETC.

    “And that is the rub, essentially the most dangerous form of taxation is the relentless issuing of money beyond what is necessary to represent the net worth of goods and services in an economy. Money was never meant to be value in of itself.” Makaveli – in his second last contribution.

    But we are sure that you have still not explained that assertion!!!

    “The last decade of the Anglo-American financial industry illustrates this belief to perfection, but what they failed to understand was that credit was not the problem liquidity was. That whole late 2008 credit freeze shows the simple point that is also demonstrated in nature…you can die of dehydration in Antarctica, surrounded by “potentially” billions of gallons of water.” – Makaveli – in his last contribution

    Makaveli, could you properly explain these things – with concrete examples/illustrations – good evidence?

    And, against the backdrop that in the USA there was, yes, the credit/financial crisis, but that the Fed Reserve had lowered interest rates to all time lows, but that at the time the so-called USA economy was still continuing to tumble and stagnate!!

    Finally, given what you have said in the second half of your contribution you must see why a future PDC Government is NOT ONLY going to Abolish Interest Rates BUT ALSO WHY it is going to make Institutional Loans for Productive Purposes Non-Repayable and why Institutional Loans for Non-Productive Purposes will see payments being drastically reduced according to how fast payments are done in Barbados.

    So long, Makaveli.

    PDC


  38. “That both conditions cannot logically exist at the same time must mean that you might be misleading us.”

    They can but not if you apply classical logic or a subject-object approach to reality. This area of the discussion cannot continue beyond such a limited view of reality, as you are arguing inside the box. Thus you will not be able to understand, using you current linguistic toolbox what is being expressed… in time you may well graduate from Aristotelian thought. Until then, all the best in your study of understanding. AKA Philosophy.


  39. Clico this, clico that.

    Yet, something else, without adequate disclosure, is worrying.

    Sagicor issues $10million private placement to NIS, challenged now by WIBISCO as an investor, and no one says a word or sees a red flag?

    Major red flag, unless an adequate reason was given, that we missed?

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