Submitted by Madonna
Immediately upon being apprised that the name of the lawyer in question had been posted here on BU, BU redacted the post removing the name of the lawyer in question and apologises to him/her in a more prominent position that that in which he/she was named for any embarrassment that may have been caused. BU’s contributors are reminded that the matter of possibly defamatory statements was aired here on BU and reminds the BU family that in order for all of us to protect our right of free speech on matters of national and international import here on BU, we must exercise good judgement in our comments.
David
My gripe is that a lot of poor people are being unfair in Barbados by a lot of lawyers. Take for instance my situation. this particular attorney and I have been friends since my school days, I wanted to sell my house and I asked his advice, he told me if I go to a real estate agent I would have to pay a lot of money so foolish me trusting him agree that he would assist me in selling the house and he in turn would charge me $10,000, I agreed although I felt it was a bit high seeing that the house was being sold for $192,000.
Would you believe that the crooked lawyer waited until I done sign the papers and then tell me his cost is $39,147.00 in legal fees, and to make matters worst he tell me that I run up a total of $10,000 in phones calls?
I had to go to court to stop him from completing the sale and taking out his share as he threatened. The man produced a lot of bogus phone numbers and said that I called from the numbers, it is only after the case and I was given a copy of the numbers, when I called the numbers it is immigration’s numbers and some were not in service.
I had to pay him $17,000 after the case was finished so he did not get the money he was expecting. I am still not satisfied. I hear the Barbados Bar Association will do nothing but slap him on the wrist, but I waiting and see.
On BU we have long advocated the need for Barbadians to become more acquainted with the law. It would help to keep many dishonest lawyers at bay. It is in this context we have used the word ignorant in the title.
This story has been ventilated on the radio and in the newspapers before and now is a matter of public record and yet in every forum we are not told who the lawuer is so that we can protect ourselves.
Who is the damn lawyer donna?
Give us his name else all this is is a piece of gossip.
@ Anonymous
It should not be about names only. We have the Barbados Bar Association which is equally as toothless and ineffective as the Police Authority; both self-policing entities. What is the sense of building a state of the art Judicial Centre and a key stakeholder(lawyers) is not regulated to ensure that people get JUSTICE?
@Anonymous
Another issue you raised.
The fact that it has been ventilated in the newspaper, so what?
Has the problem been resolved?
Until it is rectified BU for sure will focus on it from time to time.
As BU family member ac would opine, these are the nuts and bolts issues which we as citizens need to get on top of, instead, we continue to have warped priorities.
Gossip? Give a name? For an identification of dishonest lawyers to be made, the list would be very long. I know of a number of cases where I was either personally involved or very close to the individual/s, where the lawyers fleeced the client/s. Who will guard the guards? The ones who make the laws are mainly lawyers, the Bar association Disciplinary Committee are mainly lawyers; the client is between a rock and a hard place. Meanwhile what has happened to the lawyers whose cases were in the newspaper? In one instance, the case was adjourned but this is over a year and nothing has been heard about it. The alleged amount of money taken was almost $ 900,000.00. The bad thing about all this is that in many cases, an attorney, by law has to do the paper work.
You don’t have a big brother that could scare the shite out of him? I tell wunnuh de only way that Barbados is going stop the dishonesty some lawyers are engaging in, is when one of their victims put their hands on them.
It rubs me the wrong way when someone deliberately trys to steal from me. It really does. I tend to lose all civility on such occasions.
My name is Madonna Simmons and the Lawyer name is ***** ****** can anyone help me get justice the lawyer has produced telephone numbers that he said I called from when I called the numbers they belonged to the immigration department in town and people I don’t know yet I had to paid for them he claimed he got the record from cable and wireless I have lost a house because of him I have two children it is not fair
Kiev, Ukraine – Ukrainian prosectors said yesterday they are considering filing charges against parliament members who hurled eggs and set off smoke bombs in the chamber as lawmakers ratified a controversial agreement with Russia.
The parliament speaker was bombarded with eggs and Deputies brawled Tuesday before a vote ratifying an agreement to extend the Russian Navy’s lease of a Ukrainian port by 25 years.
Kiev city prosecutors said yesterday that those who caused the disorder could face charges of hooliganism, which carry a sentence of up to four years in jail.
Presiden Victor Yanukovych and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev signed the ratified deal on the Black Sea fleet into law on yesterday.
The deal is the most concrete sign of Russia’s renewed influence in Ukraine since Victor Yanukovych became president in February.
Yanukovych replaced Victor Yushchenko, who adamantly pushed to move Ukraine out of Moscow’s shadow and integrate more closely with Western Europe. Yushchenko opposed a Black Sea fleet lease extension. Taken from pg 33, of the Barbados Advocate Friday, April 30, 2010 edition.
Though emerging out of an entirely different jurisdiction, the above copy of news story has been posted in light of the incident that took place in the precincts of the Parliament of the country on March 19, and that involved the St. Philip West MP, Dr. David Estwick, and the St. Joseph MP, Mr. Dale Marshall, and in light of the nonsense coming from some people that the police in Barbados do not have any authority to investigate such an incident – when in fact they do.
The above story shows that Deputies( lawmakers) in the Ukrainian parliament are not immune from criminal prosecution, just as parliamentarians in the Barbadian parliament are not immune from criminal prosecution.
PDC
Addendum – context – meaning immunity from prosecution for any criminal acts that they commit in the precincts of the Parliament of Barbados.
PDC
Lawyers Are Scum from Hell.
NONE SHALL ESCAPE THE JUDGEMENT
Madonna Simmons // April 30, 2010 at 7:57 AM
My name is Madonna Simmons and the Lawyer name is **** **** can anyone help me get justice the lawyer has produced telephone numbers that he said I called from when I called the numbers they belonged to the immigration department in town and people I don’t know yet I had to paid for them he claimed he got the record from cable and wireless I have lost a house because of him I have two children it is not fair
==========================================
I think this case is better suited to BFP and Bajan reporter. I am not picking up fire rage on this one. I am going to call this Lawyer and ask him if he knows someone name Madonna Simmons. I gine ask he if he black or white too. lol!
Thanks to the BU family members who sent emails on this matter, it is truly appreciated.
Based on feedback BU has amended the original title which some found to be offensive.
He who tries to circumvent sensible business practices for the sake of supposed economy, is very likely to end up paying the price! There are several firms of very reputable lawyers in Barbados, whom the public will avoid using like the plague because they are considered expensive. They are NOT expensive in the long term as this unfortunate case highlights. Likewise, the better-known real estate firms know their business. Not using one can be a real false economy.
Nonsense whitewoman, YOU DO NOT NEED A REAL ESTATE AGENT TO SELL OR BUY REAL ESTATE.
I have bought and sold real estate without them over and over again.
You should NOT have given your name or the lawyers. Now, you have opened yourself up to a cause of action for defamation. In a country the size of Barbados, everyone would have known who it was in two two’s.
@ David
Another poster has copied the same comment with the name of the lawyer involved, you may want to verify.
Look, if you have a complaint against a lawyer, either sue his ass in court or bring a complaint to the Barbados Bar. Best to sue his ass, because the Barbados Bar will do less than SQUAT. You might like to know, however, that if you want to go behind the Barbados Bar, if you can find a lawyer with sufficient cojones (a rarity, but some do exist) get them to bring it to the Court of Appeal.
However, this can all be expensive – and it is the only way to do it. You cannot and must not try it in the court of public opinion through the blogs, because first the blogs have only your side of the story and second you lay yourself wide open to an action for defamation.
BU has exhaustively discussed the matter of internet defamation in previous posts. Please refer to these.
I fully realise that it is not generally known, but there ARE some members of the Barbados Bar who, disgusted by the conduct of other members and by the lack of action of the Bar Association, are prepared to, themselves, take on matters like this. This is no way suggests that there is any merit in your complaint, indeed such admission is hereby expressly denied. In a country the size of Barbados, you do not have to go too far to find out who they are and you will be surprised at the seniority and eminence of these lawyers – the type that their very names will scare the shi** out of other counsel. You are a Bajan…..if your complaint has any merit, which is not at all proved, ask a few questions.
Some of these so-called professionals’ standard method of operation is to dress well, look important, and plan ways to rip off the people who don’t have the in-depth knowledge to know any better, all with the primary goal of earning the most money for the least effort.
They know how to milk the client for more and more money. Many of these professional scam artists should be placed in a tar barrel and scorched. They practice robbery without violence. They provide lip service and talk a lot of NOTHING. Maybe this is one of the reasons why most, if not all professionals take certain risks, reason being, they know that the system takes forever to deal with shady characters like themselves. And so, it gives them time to continue “playing” to have additional money should the complaint goes against them.
Citizens need to call on Government Officials putting pressure on them to pay more pay attention in these areas. I bet if their jobs were in jeopardy, they will listen to citizens’ complaints.
I make no apology. It is the clients who allow the professionals, the businesses, etc., to get away with their “poor” business practices. There is one too many clients who send the signal that the professional style of practice is acceptable. Therefore, when an inquisitive client questions the professional and rightly so, the professionals become impolitely defensive.
Some professionals seem to think that their services are so essential — the best there is to offer that both paying as well as non-paying clients have no other choice than to endure the unapologetic attitude, and to accept the filth they want to force down our throats.
Like Donna in this submission, clients have to be willing to verbally and in writing express their dissatisfaction without malice, otherwise they will continue to receive shabby treatment from these creatures.
It was my understanding some years ago that a project was in place to improve the Administration of Justice. Whatever happen to it?
This blog jogged my memory. Several years ago, a Bajan Attorney was in the news due to his dishonesty. However, this took place in New York. Headlines read, “Bajan Lawyer Pleads Guilty to Stealing from Clients.” The Headline that followed, “Bajan Jailed in NY”
The story in a nutshell was as follows….
“THE CROOKED BARBADIAN LAWYER indicted in the United States for stealing over $1.6 million from clients pleaded guilty to the charges. He was charged with grand larceny, scheme to defraud and forgery. Most of his victims were fellow Barbadians.” The Lawyer named himself Executor of his clients’ estates which gave him access to their funds. The investigation revealed that he transferred $1,623,688 from his Escrow Account and Client Trust Accounts to his own general business account.
He was sentenced to up to ten years in prison after failing to pay back any of the more than $1.6 million he stole from his clients. He pleaded guilty to seven counts of grand larceny and faced up to 15 years in prison on each count. According to a story on Newsday.com, several of his victims who were in court applauded loudly after State Supreme Court Justice imposed a 3 1/3 to 10-year sentence.
Prosecutors said the Lawyer attracted clients because of their connections to Barbados. The lawyer prepared Wills, administered Trusts and Estates, and handled Divorces, Real Estate and Personal Injury cases in his law office.” “Basically, it was said that he stole from the dead and their relatives. In some cases, he named himself Executor of his Clients’ Estates, and this gave him access to the estate funds.” I believe the story was carried by the NationNews at the time. .
If the Justice System in Barbados would just straighten up and bring down the hammer on these dishonest people, just as it was done to this Lawyer who had to face the music in public view, it might work as a deterrent and help to put the fear of God in these type of professionals.
David, tread very carefully on this one. Looks like a BFP trap, Call me paranoid but remember the BFP post comparing David Simmons to Madonna… “Madonna Simmons”?
@Anonymous
Thanks for the feedback. We have this blog on monitor and will take whatever action necessary.
I have no interest in causing embarrassment to anyone I am just amaze, hurt and betrayed. I have heard lots of horror stories since my situation of lawyers victimizing people and the victims were treated like criminals. When will it end? IT IS JUST NOT FAIR. I would not want no one to go through what I went through. I am more informed now.
A lawyer thief my money too because as far as I concerned she did not deliver. She thief $400. out of $700 that I had ta pay she at the first meeting. After the first meeting, on two other occasions, I was asked to come to see her at 9 O’clock at her office and on both occasions as soon as I entered her door, her secretary was ushering me back out the door with the excuse that she just called home at me to tell me not to come today. Jesus Christ, not once but twice. I get real frustrated, tell them I would like back my money because they’re not acting as professionals and then is when she allowed me to know that I could only get back $300. It might not be a lot of money to some but it is the principle that I was more concerned with. I left her and went to Michael Carrington and received proper, professional service. That is why I love him so. He’s so cuteeeeeeeee. She is married to Shell-tin-ham. Her first name is Colleen I think. That was about 13yrs ago but I hate her with as much passion as if it were yesterday. I would like her to die a slowwwwwwwww, painful death. True.
I made a complaint to the Bar too but the process was a bit too tedious. I even complained to the lady Faith Marshall Harris. She was more interested in helping but after Michael Carrington came to my assistance for a mere fraction of what that ‘crook’ was charging, I sorta ‘ease off’.
But I would still like to hear that she die a slowwwwwwwwww, painful death.
@ Ms.Madonna Simmons
Have you been LET DOWN by your Solicitor or Barrister?
—————————————————————————-
Then set up a Website to collect complaints..
e.g.
NAME and SHAME
Those shady Solicitors. No need to register or even leave your name. Click on the link below and add them to our list of
‘Solicitors from Hell’
Strategy of Legal ‘Professionals’, ‘Officers of Court’ ‘Judges’ ‘freemasons’ etc
Fraudulent Theft of Properties and Assets by conversion to Legal Costs
Evidence Solitary Confinement ft Krondon
e.g.
Lawyers charges £$999 per month dragging case
Barrister spends 30 mins prep costs £$999
Learn Childrens Names = ( X = 12 ; Y = 3)
Fathers Income = £$999
Property / assets = £$999999
Unsuitable 4 Contact
hahahaha
ADRIAN SHERWOOD & LITTLE ROY ” BONGO NYAH ”
@Bonny Peppa
You are a liar!
A very big liar
someone in the know
You are a klown. I went to this woman’s office which was located somewhere in Whitepark Rd. area at the corner of a gap leading back to Baxter’s Rd. And you calling me a liar. Like ya madre.
When I had to deal with an Attorney in a minor case, what I needed done was achieved. The problem was the amount of time it took for something so minor and their lack of attention. What should have taken maybe 6 months took over approx. 18. In the end I had to call and write some strong e-mails in complaint. So my advice to people, although my experience was minor, is don’t be afraid to harass your Attorney. They have your money in good faith to do a job for you.
Take for instance if you went to a store, paid for a say fridge, you would expect that fridge to be delivered same day or when you had requested it by. You would not be afraid to call the store to ask them what is happening and to complain. Think of attorneys as the same.
Anyway in my opinion, it should be made a standard that when an Attorney takes on a case and ask for payment up front they should only be given 50% of the fee. The balance on completion. That way they may get their act together and process a little quicker, a little incentive to work. As it was when I dealt with them it was money up front and then your stuck and have to put up with their nonsense. To appoint another Attorney may have to find the money again.
The legal profession in Barbados must hold a lot of licks for the way business is currently done in Barbados. This is a profession which dominates our highest policy making place in the land. This is a profession which is responsible for handling the flow of commercial transactions in the land. When one combines the political with the commercial the people are bound to be squeezed.
How do we break the choke hold people? It is only a matter of time before this professional group becomes more of a target by the people. There is only so much a man can take.
and the above (due to bad error links – not bu)
Shalom (Mad Professor Dub mix)
I would like Anonlegal or Jeff Cumberbatch to help us understand why it takes years to settle Estates or complete Real Estate transactions and obtain Title Deeds.
I had a matter which required documents to be signed by the Registrar.
After waiting about 6 months and 20 phone calls, I got on a plane, flew to Barbados, collected the documents from the Lawyers office, took them to The Registrar’s office for signature and returned them to the Lawyer whose office is a 10 minute walk from the Registrar’s office.
Then paid $5000 for about 7 hours of the Lawyer’s time.
I will be charitable and suggest that Lawyers in Barbados need trained Office Managers and accountants with organizational skills.
There is something else about Lawyers in Barbados. They have inherited an Elevated status that allows them to treat their clients in a condescending manner.
Duh forget that you paying dem an en begging dum fuh nutten.
Until a lawyer,politician,judge or a bigup person in our society, is sent to spend time at her majesty’s prison to show the public that no one is above the law , we will continue to feel that they can continue to do these things with out any consequences and as a result good people that are out there doing a professional job at fair prices will continue to be painted with the same brush. Professionals must stop protecting these criminal and unprofessional. Stop Peter from paying for Paul. SPEAK OUT SPEAK OUT STOP THE COVER UP.
Bajan Truth
If never before I agreed with you, I just did. You are perfectly correct. We condemn the ZR culture, which is sometimes justifiable but these lawyers/crooks alias ‘thiefs’ get away with murder and no one dares to challenge them. A wonda why.
The majority of M.P’s are lawyers, they set the law. The magistrates and judges are themselves lawyers, the Bar association are made up of mainly lawyers. Can we really expect JUSITCE?
Unfortunately, David is correct.
The legal profession is now even more overcrowded than the profession of prostitution in Barbados. This once-noble calling has become the sepulchre of the hopes, dreams and aspirations of about two generations of Bajans raised to believe that all they had to do to assure prosperity and safe and easy passage through life, was to become a lawyer.
The older members of profession are retiring in their droves, many disgusted by the way the practice of law has degenerated, revolted by the rapacious and opulent practices and desires of the modern Bajan attorney-at-law. However, life is not without hope. There are some at the top, or destined to rise to the top, of the legal profession who continue to keep the flame burning and to look on the practice of law as a vocation and not as a cow to be milked for every drop.
You can tell these carriers of the flame at once. Here is a little check list:
• They will ask of you a couple of hundred dollars for the initial consultation. This is in case you do not come back or have no case and they advise you not to come back. Their time has been paid for and the overheads of their office met during the time (usually between half and one hour) that they speak to you. This is not unreasonable. If you go and buy clothes, the merchant has already factored all costs into your purchase price, including tax. A lawyer surely is allowed to do the same.
• If the reputable lawyer says that you have a case, they will then discuss with you your financial affordability. They will do so, not to see how much they can extract from you, but to see how much you can comfortably afford to pay.
• If your case is very good (like an 80% chance of success) likely they will not enquire about your finances with respect to their fees at all, but with respect solely to their expenses and out-of-pocket disbursements (things like stamp duty, filing fees, searches etc.) The reason is quite simple. They will know that they are likely to win the case and you will be awarded your costs of the action and they, at some stage, will be paid. For those less wealthy lawyers in the “carrier of the flame” division, they may ask you from time to time for a little money on account and you should not hesitate, if you can, to give this.
• A “carrier of the flame” will also do their level best to settle the case to your advantage with the minimum of fuss and bother to you……trust me, it will end up saving a lot of money and anxiety in the long run.
• In the event that a “carrier of the flame” decides that you do not have a case, they will take steps to ascertain if they can reasonably assist you in settling the matter to your best advantage. This may cost you, but believe me you will pay less in the long run by doing as you are advised. The problem is that too many people cannot look objectively at the advice they are given if it runs contrary to what they want and they shop around and inevitably find a starving lawyer who, like a starving prostitute, will assume whatever position they are asked to.
So there you have it. Only go to the best. Forget about having been to school with a body or known them all your life or grown up with them. Forget the unusually unenforced and completely ignored standards of practice of the Barbados Bar Association. Set your own standards and choose the lawyer who comes closest to those.
In the final analysis, it is like buying clothes – some are well made and of good fabric and some are not. Ditto lawyers. The principal is buyer (being you the client) beware.
@Amused
Why is it aggrieved clients can name and shame lawyers but there is a reluctance to do same in Barbados? What are the road blocks to naming and shaming some of these lawyers who like to stray?
After politics and religion there is no other subject which provokes such passionate debate as to do with lawyers and their perceived misdeeds. Isn’t it about time they look to clean up their act? Do you know the cost to the public purse to pay for the law degree and them many of them look to exact a pound of flesh even as they are completing their rookie years?
It needs to stop!
It is a well known fact that sharks do not eat lawyers: it is a matter of professional courtesy!
@David. The answer is simple – and will probably not satisfy.
In the present case, we have only one side of the story. That is the answer.
To expand the answer, however, our laws are based on the presumption of innocence unless guilt is proved. Guilt can only be proved upon both sides of the matter being heard and considered or upon a proponderance of proof being provided. That proof requires far more support than simply “I told you so”.
If you name a lawyer or any other professional, it has to be assumed, since it can never be proved (as to extent) that you have caused them damage. In any case, the type of definition covering the naming of a lawyer in something published is “libel” and libel is always actionable without proof of damage.
Then you get to the economic facts. For a lawyer to sue you costs them, usually, only filing fees and other disbursements. For you, it costs those disbursements plus legal fees. Also, as the matter has to go through a judicial or quasi-judicial process, the lawyer knows all the rules of procedure required by the court. On the other hand, if you act for yourself (as is your right) you don’t and you will make mistakes on simple matters of filing alone. The court has to take the view that, as these rules are codified, you are presumed to have read and to know them. Includint the lawyers’ scale of allowable fees. So the court is only really allowed to cut you a very limited amount of slack. Then, if you lose, you have to pay costs (yours and your opponents – which is only fair if you have launched a case and expensed them without legal grounds – or Heaven forbid, without any grounds at all, which can happen). You almost certainly will have to pay damages estimated on the losses your opponent has sustained.
So, it is not something to be lightly undertaken cost-wise.
As I have said, there are some counsel who, disgusted with the way in which some attorneys practice law, will take these matters on as a service to their profession in general, if not necessarily for the complainant. However, you have to convince them that you have a viable case before they are prepared to risk their input, both financial and in terms of time, taking them on and, in effect (not that these Carriers of the Flame, as I call them, give a damn) risking the possible lack of cooperation from their fellow members of the legal profession that might arise. That lack of cooperation, if it occurs, would have a very detrimental effect on their ability to properly service their other clients. It takes a brave lawyer and a strong case.
The answer? Is there one? Yes! And it too is breathtaking in its simplicity. The legal profession must start to EFFECTIVELY police its own. At the moment, while the mechanics of policing exists, it is a joke and never exercised. All that needs to be done is the establishment of a sort of ombudman within the Bar Association the loyalty of which is to the consumer and not to the lawyers. And, of course, a court of appeal that is prepared to kick said ombudsman in the ass if it fails to do its job. Maybe the answer is for Government to establish a separate and distinct authority to deal with these complaints.
Sorry, David, the solutions are simple indeed, but so hard to achieve. But, you have made a start by putting the issue firmly in the public forum. Please do not let it fall from view – keep hammering it.
@ Aused do bajan lawyers have escrow accounts and if so why are they not using them,when one give them large sums of money they hold it for months with out completing contracts then when contracts are completed there is no forth coming with the interest payments,can you advise on this matter,thanks for the above piece
@ PDC
you are always advocating that taxes would not have to be paid if you were elected to govern in bim,can you Explain why Anguilla is having such a difficult time at the moment there they don’t pay income taxes they have not a proper civil service hospital lack much essential services,and by the way you are rude you always post some thing which is off topic to what the blog is about is this the sort of contemptuous way you would run government if you had the opportunity,let me say this try reading animal farm,as i have said before your ideas are out of the rasta work shop manual nonsense
@ Michael. Bajan lawyers certainly have client accounts, but I sincerely doubt that they are escrow accounts. Look “escrow” up on the internet and you will see that escrow accounts are not what you probably think they are. And your question is far too general. Without defending lawyers in any way, there could be a number of very good reasons. Please do not condemn a whole profession for the sake of the ones who do not live up to their obligations. There a some bad ones in any profession. Legal practitioners are no different. You choose doctors and accountants and even clothing designers. Why not lawyers? Buyer beware!!!!! It is true for anything you pay for, whether goods or services.
@ Michael, most lawyer’s state up front that you will not get interest on their clients accounts. This is usual. No suprises there. If you want the interest, you ought to get the lawyer to agree to that BEFORE you pay them the money, but I am betting they will not agree to that. Industry standard, if you wish. I am not going to take a position on whether it is right or not. That is for the individual to decide – and to act on. Anyway, with interest rates the way they are these days, why bother? The fact that you got the job done and the money that you didn’t expect to have back in any case has the interest paid to the lawyers as a sort of administration fee is not a big deal. Also the paperwork of paying you the interest – if the lawyer charged for that, you would end up owing more – and the paperwork is a matter of government and tax regulations and rules.
I agree with David that there needs to be a serious standard of accountablility and transparency. I agree with that with every fibre of my being. However, you are getting into areas that are individual. You would check the stitiching in clothes you wear and the ingredients in means you purchase (if you are health-conscious). What is so different with lawyers? You check the fine print with your bank or investment counsellors – what is so different with lawyers?
Do some homework – everone does it for everything else, so why not for lawyers?
@Amused,
How does a person find out whether a Lawyer is honest or not?
Overseas Bajans are particularly vulnerable as are poor people who inherit assets.
Over the years I have wondered how rich foreigners seem to be able to buy land and build hotels and mansions in very short time frames.
I have heard of Law firms in Barbados whose Lawyers are “frequent flyers”.
Money can sometimes buy good service.
@Hants. Small community. The good ones are known. Ask anyone. As for the people from overseas, if they have inherited property, they have family here usually. They can find out who the best lawyers are. Ask the question and don’t be afraid of the answer.
Rich foreigners? Simple. Money. They have it and our economy and lawyers need it and it does trickle down the line. Without it, we have a problem.
Frequent fliers? Sure they are. We have not only the worst, we also have the best and we are arguably the fastest growing off-shore destination in the world. Off course they travel. Many of the other Caribbean nations and nationals prefer to hire lawyers from here, because the best are second to none. Part of their jobs these days. Part of the country that we are having to become. However, they have to keep the standards up here at home first and the best know that, because without those standards at home, the other aspect of their work and opportunities will not exist. They are having to carry the weight of our reputation on their shoulders. It is almost being ambassadors. The best do this extremely well – the others look like backwoods fools.
Money always buys good service. Are you saying you would not give better service to someone who pays you well? I would like an answer to that one.
michael
man ya just ‘rumfullup’ de PDC. ya had me cryin how ya handle dem. Ya right doe. You ever hear dem say anyting dat mek sense yet? And de submissions does be long,long,long n drawn out. stupseeeeeeee. sickeninnnnnnnn.
Amused
you very brilliant boe. you mussy a lawya. i impressed. but tell me sumting, if I go to a lawyer for representation on a matter and we fall out even before de ink could dry pun de paper, I could be charged for consultation? And shouldn’t that charge be based on the ‘agreed’ total? And if no amount was agreed upon, how can it be right to make up a bogus amount for consultation? And if the ‘fall-out’ was due to his/her unprofessionalism, should a consultation fee be charged at all? If the answer is yes to all the above, no wonder they are labelled as crooked, thiefing,dishonest liars.
@Amused
thanks very much that was helpful. i don’t have a problem with solicitors keeping what little interest they get from the money as long as they do not ask for it too far in advance of the contract being signed or delaying on the signing so that a little more interest can be made on the funds entrusted to them.is it not possible for the bare bones of how attorneys go about their business can be published in a pamphlet as it relates to the conveying of real estate………………….it could be put on GIS
@Amused who wrote, “Money always buys good service. Are you saying you would not give better service to someone who pays you well? I would like an answer to that one.”
Answer.
I give the same very good level of service to any company that pays me to do work.
Prehaps it is because my work is always seen in public venues so I have no choice or I will lose my clients.
A dying man asked his wife to bring two lawyers to be by his bedside. When asked why, he replied, ” I want to die like Jesus, among two thieves”.
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Hants // May 2, 2010 at 4:49 PM. Question not answered – and you know it.
SO.
Two clients. Both want the same public display in which you specialize. One offers to pay you a lot more than the other. Because you are a talented person and can do BOTH jobs, you accept. But which one will you give more attention to? The one who pays less, or the one who pays more? To which will you commit more time and thought – and take greater care to ensure becomes a repeat customer of yours?
Now, answer that and let us stop pretending.
michael // May 2, 2010 at 4:44 PM. As far as real estate law goes, there are strict guidelines. The lawyers’ scale of fees is based on percentage of the sale price of the property. I have also known sales of properties that have not changed hands for many generations where the title deeds have been lost and worse, simply never recorded. Such searches can be extremely complex, requiring many man hours of work and going back some centuries in some cases. Remember too that many of Barbados’ public records a long time ago were the victims of flooding, fire and hurricane, so the reconstruction of titles can be extremely difficult. And having reconstructed everything, you may need to apply to the Court for title and that is another expense – and your application must be advertised by the Registrar in case their are any other claimants.
I do not know whether this is the case or not with Ms Madonna Simmons’ property, but, absent these and many other details, it was, in my view, way out of order for her to attempt name and shame her attorney. She stated that she withdrew from the sale. Fine, that is her right. But we have no way of knowing how much time and resource her attorney had spent setting up the transaction for her.
Without this knowledge, for us to attempt, as Scout did, to name and shame is, frankly, PRESUMPTUOUS!! Remember the adage, “Do unto others”. How would you feel if you had been contacted by Ms. Simmons and, because of the self-same ties of affection or whatever that she cites, you had undertaken this job for her and expended substantial time and effort and money (the searches clerk would have to have been paid by you) and then had her withdraw and try to reclaim what she had paid you on account, all on the basis that she had changed her mind. You see, the amounts that Ms Simmons talks of regarding the value of the property and the amount required by the lawyer, lead me to suspect that the lawyer was doing her a favour. Now, I could easily be wrong and things could be exactly as Ms Simmons suggests. However, I do not know – and nor does anyone else at this stage.
My point simply is that there is a legal imperative in real property law that before you convey a property from one party to another, the title be clear. If a solicitor fails to do this, they are themselves liable in law. You cannot go to the solicitor and say to ignore any step of the process, based on cost or other consideration. The solicitor drawing the document by his stamp on the top of it certifies that all the elements of title are in order. The solicitor also has the obligation to pay all the taxes on your behalf, by way of stamp duty.
So, I hope this helps and clarifies.
If anything, though, I think this case highlights BUs call for legal education is schools. I agree with BU that this is a vital necessity, especially in today’s world. had Ms Simmons had that education as part of her schooling, she would have avoided the questionable legal practices that she alleges and (as I believe that none likely occurred) understood that realities of the situation.
Our Justice system in Barbados leaves a lot to be desired. But unfortunately there is no where or no one to turn to in making the system one that makes us proud.
Maybe those that would and do good on behalf of their clients are in the minority. Although word of mouth is the best referral there is, there is a downside when lawyers cannot publicly advertise their services.
It’s about time lawyers be penalized for their dishonesty, no matter how large or small. Until one or two lawyers be brought to their knees with stiff penalties including jail time the Judicial system in Barbados would remain more of the same. White color crime is still crime.
Sapidillo // May 3, 2010 at 9:49 AM. “It’s about time lawyers be penalized for their dishonesty, no matter how large or small. Until one or two lawyers be brought to their knees with stiff penalties including jail time the Judicial system in Barbados would remain more of the same.”
I agree with that. You have my support on that.
When fairer charging structures are eventually implemented to legal service providers and the license to print money for being the middle men in filling relevant legal forms have been replaced by a intuitive Court Service with the paperwork available on the internet, then law firms will have to reassess whether they need to keep high waged employees or bums on seats who have nothing to do. These ‘expert’ people who are judged as dispensable will obviously need to retrain in another field to stay employable. At least the next generation of lawyers will be more honest and genuine and keep to the codes of conduct to provide better services after the clean up of the industry has been performed and all the bad wood chopped out.
Quasimoto – Don’t Blink
Quasimoto – Low Class Conspiracy
@Sapidillo // May 3, 2010 at 9:49 AM. I want to add to that. The penalties you suggest should be applied, not only against lawyers, but against the members of ANY profession that fail to adhere to the standards of that profession and to the law.
In that spirit, therefore, and in keeping with some suggestions, I am looking forward to the days of everything on the internet. Law on the internet and allows me to file documents and prep my arguments and then a computer tells me whether I have won or lost (and there is no appeal, therefore no court of appeal) and it credits my account if I have won and debits it if I have lost. Mostly, I am looking forward to a world without people who bitch about lawyers – because there will be no lawyers to bitch about. Of course, they will bitch about the fees the internet charges and they will bitch about the decisions the internet imposes and they will spend endless hours researching and trying to prove that they are right and the internet is wrong (but have you ever noticed that bitchers/bitches are always right anyway, so same old, same old) – and they will not be happy, because there are no lawyers to bitch about – but I will be happy not to have to hear them bitch about lawyers at least. But they will bitch, of course, about the internet and through the internet. In other words, basically, they are just bitchers/bitches.
OF COURSE, BY THIS TIME, BASIC LAW WILL BE TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS SO THAT THE INTERNET CAN BE ADEQUATELY INSTRUCTED BY ITS CLIENTS AND THE CALL BY BU FOR THIS WILL HAVE BEEN SATISFIED. It isn’t going to happen as a pie-in-the-sky dream of someone who has had a bad experience with a lawyer which may…….or may NOT……..have been the lawyer’s fault. It comes of education.
Of course, for law alone, there will be a special program – a sort of a game that is only binding on the players themselves and not legally binding. It will be called “Write Your Own Law”. It will give all those who do not agree with the law the chance to invent their own and manufacture decisions as they would wish them to be. And in place of lawyer-bashing when they don’t get what they want because it isn’t yet written (because, remember you have to play this game with an opponent, even if it is a computer) you are entitled to bash your computer and even to complain (name and shame it) online. As it is inanimate, it cannot fight back. I suspect that this game will mostly appeal to those in accomodations where the walls are padded.
In that vein, I am also looking forward to medicine on the internet (whereby I can feed in my symptoms and a computer tells me what is wrong with me and provides me with a prescription – or an operation). Then, there is accounting on the internet for those who have to file multiple tax returns in multiple countries. Interesting. The Inland Revenue will love that one too and all the little cash deals that some people have – kaput! Then, there is teaching where teachers are done away with and all pupils required to conform as to ability and everything else. Of course, there is also religion as decreed by the internet. What Utopia. I don’t think I will live long enough to see it – the concept of Big Brother made a reality and the handing over of human expertise and experience and where the computer programs the human, rather than the other way round – except in the Write Your Own Law game.
Amused // May 8, 2010 at 4:54 AM ….In that spirit, therefore, and in keeping with some suggestions, I am looking forward to the days of everything on the internet. Law on the internet and allows me to file documents and prep my arguments and then a computer tells me whether I have won or lost (and there is no appeal, therefore no court of appeal) and it credits my account if I have won and debits it if I have lost. ………………..
I notice you completely avoid the mention of the word truth in what you would like to see.
In fact, until now, there is not one mention of the word in the blog or comments.
Without truth, documents and arguments fall flat on their face, either at the time they are submitted or years later when the lie(s) is (are) exposed.
Truth is simple.
Truth does not require lawyers, thieving or not.
Truth does not even require the internet.
Truth gives lasting solutions, lies give convoluted ones which are marked by instability as exposure is inevitable.
Truth will solve the problem of thieving lawyers which seems to be eating your soul case out ………
…… Truth will set you free.
Computers on the other hand, are known to operate on the GIGO principle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_In,_Garbage_Out