Time To Ask The Hard Questions About CSME

Submitted as a comment by Ecoanalyst

csmeLet us stop making this a political football that aims at revising history and making the BLP blameless for the present situation…. It is not a question of political blame BLP vs. DLP, but rather the political parties reflecting the majority will of the people. We still have to decide whether CSME is good for Barbados, notwithstanding the statements of the politicians over the years .

The key issue is how rapid immigration will affect the voting patterns of the country if immigrants are allowed to vote. The party encouraging immigration stands to benefit if there is not a backlash by the majority. That fact may have lost the BLP many votes last year.

Last year 12% of the Barbados registered voters were immigrants. In Antigua’s last elections 24% of the voters were immigrants. For this reason the issue of immigrant voting rights and their effect on national elections is of paramount importance in both of these islands.

CSME as theorized means one country, one economic space, one currency; one Central Bank one economic policy; many countries with reduced control over economic and social policies. The eight OECS countries have the most developed structure in this regard… Maybe that is why Trinidad wants to join them.

To my thinking the CSME as now drafted and implemented, will never become a reality as countries will cherry pick the things they like and ignore the rest. Therefore opening the borders to unrestricted immigration will ensure drastic changes in the country’s politics and social stability, that most Barbadians will not like.

The solution is to get out of the CSME “pipe dream” goals of full integration, especially as they relate to free movement. Make decisions that are in the best interest of the country and its long term stability and establish the bi-lateral trade/economic arrangements that make sense.

Stop the talking and the posturing . The vested interests promoting the CSME mirage are protecting their own jobs. We have been rehashing the same ides for over 50 years. Let us get real and support the things that work for Barbados, and the future stability of the country economically, culturally, and politically.

103 comments

  • CSME is not good for Barbados. What has happened shows that everyone wants to come to Barbados because our standard of living is good but Bajans would have to accept a fall in their living standard to go to some other countries. So that is why Bajans are not keen to go anywhere else if it is not at the same standard as Barbados. Barbados will so be a big loser because everybody will come in here and when we say we cant take anymore, these people will curse us and say nasty things about us. We cant be in CSME if our neighbours hate us. Look at the things the Guyanese had to say because our government is enforcing the laws which says that if you are here illegally, you have to leave. Barbados should pull out of CSME. It is not good for Barbados.

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  • What about the argument from the former PM and the current LOTO, who are always reminding us that we should leave the immigration laws and illegal guyanese alone because we export the majority of goods to the region? Never mind that they (blp)would have attempted to institute an import montoring scheme on regional imports during the Fishing/maritime boundary dispute with Trinidad. If I remember well we got cuss bad for that too.

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  • These regional leaders that wanted for years to get their hands on Barbados is forcing our leaders into a corner. Mr Thompson came out with some “fighting” words but by the time the Heads of Government Conference was over, it was a TKO for him and Barbados. Open market for qualified maids and nannies and their families. Come on, that is like saying anyone can come but to be sure he don’t get back up, they reminded him about the controlled trade threat. In other words move out of the way or else. Well the or else is to clean the slate, send home, deport, whatever, ALL regional illegals first and forget about Caricom/ CSME. The products we have we can look at filtering into the EU, because since we have signed that agreement with the EPA, these people will start coming too. Where does that leave the authentic bajan that has worked so hard to make this nation so attractive? This government needs to get back to the people, call townhall meetings, anything, maybe a referendum, so that Barbados can chart a path forward. This has to be done by September because these Heads are meeting again in October to sign the final document to allow a bigger gap in this migration process to start 1st Jan 2010. This is where politicians need to show maturity and come together for the good of the country because at the end of all this Barbados will be the country who gets hurt the worse.

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  • @The Scout

    I completely agree or we can market our goods to the US,French,Dutch or British owned isles in the Caribbean.This latest farce of free-movement concerning domestic workers is complete bullsh*t.Barbados needs skills NOT importation of poverty from the rest of the CSME countries & the fact that the Prime Minister has agreed to this signals a retreat from his stance as it relates to population density,strained social services & more laxed Immigration laws.

    Has the DLP become BLP-lite ?What happened to representing Bajan interests abroad ? Is Caricom not just a Community of Sovereign states or has Government sold Barbados for more cheap imported labor ?

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  • At the risk of being hammered out of the park, may I offer another view.

    The OECS territories have a common currency and one Central Bank; BUT … there is no freedom of movement!

    CSME does NOT mean free entry for whosoever may! Nor does it mean freedom to come looking for jobs, wives and husbands, or hiding out and having children to get “status”.

    What is does mean is that RPB, Alison, Krsofyah, Dorsey Boyce, Merville Lynch, DJ Fuzz, Peter Coppin, Peter Ram, QSI Sounds, and a whole group of very talented Bajans could go to any Caribbean island and perform, set up stage, sound, lighting etc. and get paid for their various talents [in US dollars if they so desire] and continue to live in Bim, their homeland.

    The problem is: other Caribbean islands took steps to secure their borders; made sure our artistes had work permits, visas, and whatever other immigration documentation they required BEFORE letting them into their countries.
    WE let in all and sundry for all sorts of spurious reasons, and then started to bawl when the flood started to wash everything away.

    The fault is not CSME; and you are all wise enough to know where the fault lies.

    Be bold enough to put the blame where it belongs.

    Dennis Johnson

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  • Carson C. Cadogan

    The Barbados Labour Party is responsible for this whole sordid mess.

    A visionless man was Prime Minister for fourteen years and all we have to show for it is Guyanese like dogfleas all over the place.

    I have no problem with people from other countries residing in Barbados, but it must be done in a proper and managed way.

    The idiot we had as leader of this country went all over inviting whosoever will, legal or illegal to head for Barbados. This was the end of the rainbow where they would find their pot of gold. Anyone who got in his way, customs officers, immigration officers, private citizens, got a tongue lashing both at home and when he went abroad.

    I am happy that something is finally being done about this rediculous situation.

    I will encourage everyone within the hearing of my voice to refuse to vote for the Barbados Labour Party come next General elections.

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  • Carson C. Cadogan

    The Barbados Labour Party is responsible for this whole sordid mess.

    A visionless man was Prime Minister for fourteen years and all we have to show for it is Guyanese like dogfleas all over the place.

    I have no problem with people from other countries residing in Barbados, but it must be done in a proper and managed way.

    The idiot we had as leader of this country went all over inviting whosoever will, legal or illegal to head for Barbados. This was the end of the rainbow where they would find their pot of gold. Anyone who got in his way, customs officers, immigration officers, private citizens, got a tongue lashing both at home and when he went abroad.

    I am happy that something is finally being done about this rediculous situation.

    I will encourage everyone within the hearing of my voice to refuse to vote for the Barbados Labour Party come next General elections.

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  • Carson C. Cadogan

    The Barbados Labour Party is responsible for this whole sordid mess.

    A visionless man was Prime Minister for fourteen years and all we have to show for it is Guyanese like dogfleas all over the place.

    I have no problem with people from other countries residing in Barbados, but it must be done in a proper and managed way.

    The idiot we had as leader of this country went all over inviting whosoever will, legal or illegal to head for Barbados. This was the end of the rainbow where they would find their pot of gold. Anyone who got in his way, customs officers, immigration officers, private citizens, got a tongue lashing both at home and when he went abroad.

    I am happy that something is finally being done about this rediculous situation.

    I will encourage everyone within the hearing of my voice to refuse to vote for the Barbados Labour Party come next General elections.

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  • It is amazing that Barbadians and its media have shied away from having this conversation. As it stands it may appear the Caricom countries may still feel guilty at the failure of the Federation or the observation that many of the larger countries in the world today preach the need to have unions in the globalization phenomenon.

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  • yes, the blp sell out bajans to these wolves from the region. owen arthur should hold his head in shame. he created this mess. when bajans tell him to control the foreigners coming in, he cursed us. tell us we too xenophobic. now we got this stinking mess. take back barbados, david. bajans are behind u. remember politics is local, not regional. bajans elect you to look out for them, not caricom. some of the same people barbados take in, rickey singh among them, now insulting bajans and nastying barbados image. they want to take over barbados. they have a plan but we bajans must smash this plan for our children and grandchildren. bajans build barbados so bajans should enjoy barbados. if we need foreign people, we can bring them in and control how much. not allow every and anybody to come in as owen arthur did.

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  • "*Adviser to the President*"

    “The fault is not CSME; and you are all wise enough to know where the fault lies. “…Dennis Johnson
    July 9, 2009

    Will some one be wise enough and gracious enough to please advise the Adviser on this Advice

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  • Rumplestilskin

    The article is well written, particularly regarding the ‘cherry-picking’ by individual countries.

    Three recent glaring examples of the feasibility or lack therof of CSME exist.

    All have been mentioned before on this blog.

    Firstly, as mentioned above, the rancor that accompanied the argument between Barbados and Trinidad on the fishing issue was noticeable.

    How can one expect to be close colleagues and partners if such bitter enmity exists?

    This was not just a quarrel between brothers, but an almost unsolveable situation.

    Secondly, the CCJ, albeit headquartered in T&T, after all this time has only two subscribers.

    This is not only reflective of the glaring distrust by leaders, of the ability of Caribbean institutions, but such a passage of time since implementation, indicates less than full intent on making this work.

    Thirdly, as mentioned before, an as yet unexplained action by the leaders of T&T, St.Vincent and Grenada stating intent towards political and economic unity within their own parameters, is contrary to the very spirit of CSME.

    I do not agree on the reason surmised above, that T&T is basing this upon leveraging the OECS advanced union.

    If this was so, then in a similar line of thought, why has T&T not subscribed to the CCJ, as a member, which would go a long way to unifying one of the important pillars of the community, the system of justice.

    My opinion is that the T&T, St.Vincent and Grenada union is more about jostling for maritime boundaries and political control than anything else.

    So, with three recent examples of less than full intent on forwarding of the CSME ‘agenda’, do we really think that this will be successful.

    The point above on the movement of artistes etc is taken, but really, is a matter of convenience only, as shows will go on, in any case, even if one has to go through the inconvenience of licensing etc, in each island.

    What one must look to is the ‘spirit’ of the issue and when I assess the issue, the whole agenda seems more about who can gain for their own political agendas, as noted above ‘cherry pick’.

    It is better to implement a manageable and cordial relationship, than an impossible ‘dream’ that will end up in ruin and bitterness.

    Peace

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  • The problems with Caricom is reflected in the West Indies team. This region is so divided that we’re on the brink of collapse in every area. Funny thing, there are entities just waiting to pounce on a sick Caricom. Chavez and his Judas’, Jagdeo and Gonsalves are preparing themselves. Do you see who the WICB to pull them out of this abbys? Barbados, because we’re the only serious and committed country, they will use us and dump us. I risk to bet that when this impasse is over, the WICB will return to picking the majority of it’s players from Jamaica. If this continues we would be fielding a West Indies team in the future, since the present situation will be replaced by Indians who are repidly taking over the entire region. In the mean time we black indeginous caribbean NATIVES are allowing ourselves to be trampled by these stinking people. Blacks really like crabs in a bucket.

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  • People, story worrying your head and enjoy life.

    Caricom will never become a reality. Csme will never become a reality.

    Politicians will be politicians with yard fowls in pecking order.

    Enjoy life! Forget this sh*t*.

    Go drink a rum.

    When Caricom and Csme start meaning something to us on the street, then let’s comment, not before.

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  • Denis Johnson incredulously wrote

    “WE let in all and sundry for all sorts of spurious reasons,..” “WE” ?????!!!!!

    You mean Bajans! Unfortunately WE did not follow his “advice” earlier so that certain mealy mouthed, insufferable Grenadians would not now be here to pontificate to us.

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  • Relating to. The posting by Adrian and the news which is currently burning the wires that local government AGAIN been postponed with laws amended. Interesting development when judged for relevance to the CSME question.

    There is no doubt the Manning government is currently engaged in high stakes political manoeuvres. Is Barbados and the rest of the region aware?

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  • David
    No, and that is what I fear. Barbados is playing the game according to the rules, yet there is the OECS and ALBA and all the other little underhand things going on, yet my P.M is gradually allowing himself and the rest of Barbados to be srawn into a hole. A hole that we can’t get out of when this Caricom thing collapse.. My P.M, stop, think, sometimes it is better to play the deceitful game than to be “nice boy.” When you’re hunting with wolfs you can’t pretend that you’re a docile dog, bite just like the rest, you have bajans backing you, don’t let us down. The road will get rough but we bajans can weather the storm.

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  • denis johnson is a expert on everything. why the hell he ain’t up on Cave Hill? he can blow up on this comment. I ain’t care. he talks a lot of b/s all the time and somebody must tell him so. why he don’t save VOB. it gone to the dogs and i glad. it behaved too pompous. he and ellis and the whole bunch. you aint see they now begging people to advertise. Radio works! we hearing every minute. Radio works, my foot! if the radio is working, they would not be begging for advertising. starcom too involve in politics.

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  • Sylvan and Anon, Dennis point is good one. That point cannot be stress enough that there is no Law local or regional, nor is there any agreement with in or out of Caricom, that legitimize illegal immigrants. This, in of it self nullifies the long-standing Anti-Bajan opinions from the region, that is now being remake as a legitimate argument. It has to be said and continued to be said. Equally,.. blame for the presence of these out of status persons being in Barbados has to be shouldered squarely by Owen Arthur and the BLP, and at the same time we must continue to search for the benefits to Barbados from CSME and contrast them with the negatives if any. We can do all these things at the same time. Dennis Johnson has over the years demonstrated he wants to be in Barbados and fully immerse himself accordingly. He has shown how he can be a Grenadian and a Bajan and I do not sense any intention on his part to practice a Grenadian style “Apanjaat” in Barbados.

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  • I have always said that the free movement of people is wrong. The people from the poorest countries will always gravitate to the richest countries. Wouldn’t you? I sure as hell would!
    What we need is FREE MOVEMENT OF BUSINESS and FREE AND FAIR TRADE between in this case the caribbean countries but the world in general. We should all stay in our individual countries and develop them for ourselves and for future generations.
    BUSINESS is what generates employment, taxes and the expansion of our economies and this is what we should focus on. Why would I want to leave a country that is prosperous and that has employment opportunies that are plentiful? Do the above and the immgration problem will dissapear!

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  • enough talking. bajans who against CSME got to come out and march and protest this sell-out and rape of our country the BLP allowed because it always put foreigners before bajans. we got to march and protect what is ours for our children and grandchildren and greatchildren who going to get kick bout in barbados if we dont stop CSME now. bajans build barbados but CARICOM wants to destroy our way of life. CSME is a conspiracy.

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  • The noise made by Jadio is a smoke screen. He is badly running Guyana and as a result his people are leaving in droves. He is exporting his unemployed and is recieving in return remittences
    from all over the world particularly B’dos to prop-up his regime.To make himself look good he is telling the world that Barbados is misstreating his people. If he cared about his people why is he not creating the right environment in Guyana so that his people can stay at home and make a living. He is trying to blame B’dos for the problems he has created and making himself look good in the process.

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  • But to whom can he instill this fake “good” image? Only a willing audiance and those complicit in their intent towards Barbados,which i dare say includes Owen Arthur and Mia Mottley. Indeed he seems not to care about the Guyanese people, and those who vote for him and his party are both his enablers, and very same ones who are leaving in droves? It boggles my mind.

    Proof that he cares not is to be found on the website of the President of Guyana where the President is quoted to have said that he finds it a bit odd, that Canada would accept refugees from Guyana and deport people from the same country.
    Now Canada said it deported criminals.

    But let us talk about the benefits of CSME to Barbados and why they are, and when they became benefits?

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  • Why do we have to import Bottle water from Trinidad? Or patties from Jamaica? Cant’t these things be bottle and made in Barbados?

    The Japanese are singing reggea rather import the likes of Bennie man to sing fuh dem.

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  • I like what BIZZY say in the nation the other day.

    Immigrants should have to wait 18years to vote like a normal Bajan

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  • Caricom has failed, is failing and will continue to fail. A pillar in the treaty is supposedly a political union. Which island is going to surrender its sovreignty to be ruled by an outsider? Caricom is a waste of time, money, and resources. Small member states cannot be expected to support a large state which is guilty of human rights abuses. The OECS a more better managed organization and more effective than caricom. The OECS already has a single viable currency, central bank, etc… Eventually, in the not too distant future, member states that have membership in caricom and the OECS will have to decide which organization is better for their island on a local and regional level. The answer is patently obvious.

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  • Victor Hunte, you are on the button about remittance with Guyana. Jagdeo knows this too. This is one reason why he is forcing his people to live in another country either legally or illegally. Remittance is responsible for 43% of Guyana Gross Domestic Product. Jagdeo and his team will cuss out Thompson for upholding bajan law. Obeying laws means less remittance.

    Here’s more information on the remittance issue:
    http://www.stabroeknews.com/2008/news/local/03/17/guyanas-remittances-as-gdp-percentage-highest-in-region/

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  • Bharat Jagdeo & David Thompson had a cuss out at the conference last week that nearly resulted in a physical exchange between the 2 leaders.When I say a cuss out it was a real cuss out.It was serious.

    Also in Guyana Michelle Arthur & her CBC television team were on the receiving end of a verbal attack by Guyanese.Their safety was challenged.I would like David Ellis to tell us about his experience in Guyana.He was also the subject of a verbal attack by Guyanese.

    I have Black Guyanese friends and I am being warn that all types of attack are being plan against Barbadians visiting Guyana.I would advise Barbadians travelling to Guyana to be very careful because the atmosphere in Guyana today is not very receptive to Barbadians.

    This region has leaders both political & civic who are prepare to stir up the emotions of their people because countries in this region are prepare to implement policies to protect the sovereignty of their countries.

    Bharat Jagdeo,Ralph Gonsalves,Sir Shridath Ramphal,Rick Singh,musty Norman Faria,Annalee Davis our own political cadaver David Comissiong,funny man the freak Peter Wickham & others have written & said a whole set of untruths & lies about David Thompson & Barbados on the new immigration policy. The comments from those miscreants have enraged the people of the region who countries are going to be most affected to the point that irreparable damage is being done that could result in not only verbal assault but it might degenerate to physical & other scenarios.

    In the present circumstances I think we Barbadians must be prepare for the backlash that will come our way.All the warning signs are there and we must take heed of those signs.

    Brother Scout the true patriot your predictions are coming true.The storming clouds are gathering and the hurricane is about to strike.Barbados be prepare.

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  • How I view CSME is similar to that of EU, in which one should draw comparisons.
    The EU is not new; should be taken as an example.
    (1) Size; (2) Strength; (3)Developed; (4) Population density.

    The EU can absorb large quantities of people, qualified or non-qualified.

    Germany is perhaps the richest, with few Immigrant problems; why?

    UK is one of the smallest, yet many are trying to enter; why?

    The reasons are for you to find out!

    In the EU, the Prime Ministers/ Presidents, supported by a European Parliament take turns, (6 months) to govern or dictate policies for all member states.
    Those people in their individual countries, who have voted for their governments, have now become impotent.

    Are we heading down this road?

    Take a look at how things are done in other Caribbean countries, look at their currencies, human rights issues,(without naming a particular country), etc. Do you want this?

    Listen carefully to what both parties are telling you; “Read between the lines”.
    It is high time that both parties explain in simple language for all to understand.
    Debate the ‘Pros & Cons’ in a public open forum.

    Then leave it for the people to decide if they are for or against CSME.

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  • Are we supporting CSME because of known economic and political benefits to be derived or does it have to do with a shared history which some think makes a union inevitable.

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  • mash up & buy back

    Negroman

    Over and over again that treacherous David Ellis has been saying on VOB that he was treated well down in Guyana and he saw no tensions.

    David Ellis’ pro guyanese position suggests to me that there may be more to it than meets the eye.

    I know based on what almost all the guyanese whether those abroad or those in guyana was saying – that there would have been tension.

    Persons were also talking about reports of bajans in guyana calling home and speaking about guyanese ill treatment towards them.

    Notice how now the Caricom Summit is over – Starbroek News not pushing these stories any more – they got what they wanted for sure.

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  • @Paradox
    Why do you think caribbean leaders are on their second campaign to force integration on us without our input? Edward Seaga told them plainly why the Federation failed and why CSME will also. “Top to Bottom” instead of Bottom up.

    @David
    If you listen to Mia Mottley and before her Owen Arthur, they will tell you that a significant percentage of our exports goes to the region, that the region represents a significant portion of our tourist arrivals. When they attempt to make tie these to our continued involvement in CSME they tend to falter. They don’t elect to tell us when our economy was altered to become more integrated with caricom and CSME, or what it was like before that occured, or what in recent times was the driving force behind CSME and if that force is still with us or has be replace with something else that may now be competing with CSME for membership.

    When did our economy become more integrated with Caricom/csme?
    Under who’s leadership?
    When was the FTAA schedule to come into place?
    When was CSM schedule to be implimented?
    What seems to have replace or out bid the FTAA for members in the Americas?
    What entities seem to be competing for members to their group from within the CSME grouping?

    Boy i have so many questions as a result of no answers from the academics, regionalists, Elites all.

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  • Mashup and Negroman. Where is the proof? Those that shout Bajan ill treating illegal guyanese did not bring any. You gine be just like them too?

    If Jagdeo and Thompson had it ding down why are we in the dark about it? If the CBC team had threats why is there silence? And if David Ellis also had threats made to him why would he lie? I would think that David Ellis would welcome the opportunity to get back at Thompson who made him look silly at the press conference. David Ellis could use any threats to his personal safety in Guyana as continued fodder for the “leave de people alone” campaign. You did not hear Elombe with his fear mongering before they disconnect due to poor audio?

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  • Sir Bentwood Dick

    In order to make appropriate representation to the issue of immigration and Caricom representation, Julian Hunte should be made Ambassador-at-Large.

    All queries from dissenters to be addressed to him and answered by him.

    Really, he has interesting ideas and such representation would be fitting for the feedback that we are currently experiencing.

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  • There is a far deeper more sinister ‘reason’ behind the concept of CSME, than even most political leaders probably know about!

    External pressure in very subtle ways,were brought to bear on the leaders of our region, i.e., World Trade Organization (WTO), World Bank, IMF, and so on, re ‘Globalisation’ this is precisely why we already have (NAFTA) (GATT) (EU) which are all miccrocosm’s in varying degrees of the well planned for decades ‘Setting the stage for World Government’ which cannot be stopped, it is just a matter of timing, before it becomes a living, miserable, reality.

    From a Biblical perspective, this is all part of the ultimate One World Anti-Christ Government.

    The present world economic crisis, is all part of this sinister, evil, well planned agenda, by the ‘New World Order’ elite, as they cannot further this plan without an economic crisis, world wide.

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  • I understand very clearly that Barbados needs Skilled LEGAL Labor & for that CSME would do a great job,but the very idea of trying to force a Sovereign state in the Caricom Community such as Barbados to accept all poor & sundry from the rest of the Caribbean is imo outrageous.

    There is absolutely NOTHING Skilled about ‘Domestic workers’ & it cannot assist in anyway Barbados’ development.It is an absolutely outrageous form of Free movement described as “SKILLED”.

    Migration into any country is not a right,but a privilege.Those who run counter to the rules DO NOT respect the country’s process at all & everytime I see the P.M. soften his stance it just showcases the country’s Government as not having any standards even though Barbados’ Citizens are adamant about those standards being enforced.

    I think that if the Prime Minister cannot handle the matters of immigration he should allow either Minister McClean or Minister Stuart handle it in its totality.

    BTW,One more reason has been added as to why Barbados should get out of CSME.Most of the independent Caribbean states [except Barbados] are considered failed states.

    ——————————————-

    http://www.radiojamaica.com/content/view/19640/88/

    Eleven Caribbean nations have been included in the 2009 Failed States Index.

    The authors of the Index say this does not mean the countries have failed however, there are issues that need to be addressed to avoid de-stabilization.

    The report, published by the US organization Fund for Peace, ranks 177 countries based on their social, political and economic indicators.

    The best rankings are in the sustainable categories while the alert level is the lowest.

    Barbados is the only country in the region to receive a moderate ranking.

    Haiti has been placed in the alert level, but the others – the Bahamas, Belize, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Grenada, Guyana, Jamaica, Suriname, Trinidad and Venezuela – have all been placed in the warning category.

    This means that there are significant pressures that could lead to destabilization in those countries if they are not addressed.

    Mark Loucas, the organization’s research associate, said that rating does not mean there is impending failure in those countries.

    “It is a fact that it has the potential to be very destabilizing but if you look at the Caribbean, some of the issues which have been undermining the progress of so many states are poverty and unequal development, lack of opportunities and economic stagnation which really traps so many people at an economic disadvantage. Not only does that put into question the legitimacy and effectiveness of the Government but also the social and demographic health of the country,” he said.

    But Grenada objects to the report saying the Failed States Index assessed the region unfairly.

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  • Negro man
    I’m so concerned, I think the revolution has started and bajans are just talking. Things are going to get so hard in Barbados, it’s going to be much worse than the early ’90’s. The big problem is that bajans are the ones to hold the squeeze while these illegals and other immigrants aregoing to eat away at the little that is available. Right now, guyanese are senting close to
    Bds$ 400,000 home per week and Jagdeo swear that David Thompson can’t stop it. I have already said that a guyanese living here in B’dos told me quite recently not to go back to Guyana alone, I must go with a known guyanese or else. Plus, those indo-guyanese are prepared to start somethingwhen this amnesty is over and the Barbados government starts rounding them up. According to some that I overheard, You can’t get them out of Barbados just so.” This is the calm before the storm. I’ve already told you I have a plan “B” ready to institute. In true bajan terms, it’s going to be cat piss and peppa just now, A mini USA/ Iraq situation. These indo-guyanese don’t care much about life.They alway plan the victim role while playing nasty. I just don’t trust them, I predicted this would happen from my experience with them but I was hoping the day would never come. Only God can intervene right now, it has gone too far.

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  • Let us say that had the PDC won the government at the last elections – all like now Barbados would have been absolutely withdrawn from out of the CSME. We have said it over and over again on here and elsewhere that this CSME enterprise is non-sensical, farcical, and backward.

    Well, the CSME as defined by joke people like Owen Arthur has meant freer and greater movement of capital, investment, labor, the capacity of certain workers and business people to enter member territories without work permits, the establishment of contigency rights, the setting of a Regional Development Fund, the establishment of the Caribbean Court of Justice, etc

    Those things notwithstanding, we have previously said and will continue to say avowedly that the concept and practice of the CSME is a very deficient and backward one based on a number of propositions:

    1) That it represents the development of a higher but more dangerous phase of imperialism/international political economy within our CARICOM region – which as a global social political trajectory unavoidably therefore renders the CSME as being very antithetical to notion of greater political independence for the CARICOM region, and being very detrimental to the harnessing of a greater regional political cultural and racial identity and territorial integrity among certain countries within CARICOM itself;

    2) that the CSME exists largely at the political psychological emotional level – where most CARICOM persons who think about it are concerned – and as such is NOT grounded in a political realism that speaks to certain parts of the region seriously producing and delivering – on its own – great amounts of material and other benefits to the great satisfaction of the peoples of most of the component structures;

    3) That it does NOT coincide with the existence in CARICOM of a supranational political entity (state) that wields significant sovereign power and authority over the constituent states. Thu, the absence of that means that the status quo at the level of CARICOM will continue to be well known for indecision, dithering, non-action, among other things, as they relate to many decisions and commitments that are necessary to help strengthen CARICOM;

    4) That it was formed with or without regard to the fact that the major races – Blacks and Indians – that are found existing in CARICOM states really do have substantially different histories, cultures and religions, and – as such – this makes the potential for tension and conflict at various levels of further and greater integration within the context of the CSME, very great indeed. Such realities would therefore rightfully threaten the existence of the very essence of a CSME. So, by seeking to deepen and widen regional integration beyond what CARICOM had meant or originally intended – through this CSME foolishness – would have signified that areas of life and activity that were thought to be previously no-go areas by the founders of CARICOM – because of the great possibility for conflict – were NOT going to be shunned any more by so-called leaders like Mr. Owen Arthur, whatever the political and other consequences, it seems, under the guise of the CSME; and, finally

    5) That the CSME represents a most horrendous, improper and inane attempt to apply an euro-centric political model of integration and regionalization EEC/EC/EU) on this CARICOM region, without careful consideration for the fundamental ontological existential differences that existed and still exist between CARICOM and the EEC/EC/EU – and without careful consideration for the fact that many of the existing defects in the operations of CARICOM should have been first remedied before running off and dealing with this CSME foolishness. But, it is popularly known in the region that the idea of a CSME was senselessly hastened by this half-baked idea of some regional politicians technocrats that the people of this region – as a whole – had to seriously come together more as a unified block of people primarily because many other peoples within other regions (said EEC/EC/EU – ASEAN – MERSUCOR – NAFTA) – were continuing to or staring to come together more to make themselves stronger and more resourceful within the global scheme of things.

    Thus, these difficulties and irrelevancies notwithstanding, the CSME could only – in terms of gestation – have been the manifestation and reification of a very flawed and impractical idea of a small consortium of politicians, regional business people and regional technocrats, etc. for the primary purpose of the deepening and expanding of this dreadful and vicious elite political exploitation social marginalization of the masses and middle classes of people within this region.

    Hence, as a party that is for the masses and middle classes of people of Barbados, the PDC could NEVER – if it had won the government in this country in January 2008 – have allowed for such elite exploitation and marginalization of our people of Barbados. NEVER. EVER. Therefore that would have been one of the reasons why a PDC Government would have withdrawn Barbados from out of the CSME and why we – as a party that has NOT won government – will continue to have that as a fundamental policy of our party until there is NO MORE CSME for Barbados.

    SO LONG!!

    PDC

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  • @Ecoanalyst……..Superseding any benefits of a voting block, is the reality that there is a greater force at the root of this global instability and the ‘leaders’ of these mini states are ‘agents’ of this force whether willingly or unaware. These ‘agents’ are creating conditions in home states that make life intolerable, thus, the ‘immigrants’ are forced and encouraged to leave and encroach on the sovereignty of others. The incompetence, corruption and deprivation in Guyana is being facilitated by external forces, just like Haiti has been denied the right to self-determination for years, also by external forces and thru the clandestine activities of internal ‘agents’. Saying that this is about votes is to trivialize this whole issue.

    @Negroman……My great patriotic brother, sad to say, but I think that you are grasping at straws. No ‘fight’ between these two ‘agents’ can change the reality on the ground. It seems like the PM went to GT to personally bring back domestic workers. This act in itself makes one question his strength as a leader. If there was really a ‘fight’ why did he give in to Jagdeo and dump more of the same crap in the laps of dissenting bajans. At a time when economies are still heading for the dumps, where will the PM get the money and resources to accommodate this madness? Who is the PM serving? The horse has already bolted and now it is up to the people to rein it in and remove it. Power to the People!

    @Zoe……It must be a ‘cold day in hell’ since I concur with you on this issue. However, you still refuse to see that those who’ve planned these bogus unions are the descendants of those who patchworked that bible and have everything going according to their script, causing sovereign nations to surrender their powers to this clique? I think I’ll chalk up your nearsightedness to your ‘religious’ indoctrination.

    How ironic, that the US Org. Fund for ‘Peace’ can put out such a list. Where does the Amerikkka stand on this list, a bankrupt corporation which sheds blood all over this planet to uphold an extravagant, depraved lifestyle, a corp whose ‘nationals’ got rich because they’ve ransacked, pillaged and povertied other nations. Why should we listen to them when they are rapidly spiraling toward beggar status now? Why is Grenada and Venezuela on that list? Who depraved Grenada? Who is constantly trying to destabalise Venezuela?

    Any report put out by the #1 failing state should be taken with a bucket of salt.

    The europeans, the chinese, the japanese, and now the indians are all turning toward our Motherland – Al-kebulan, but the only people running away from her are us, her descendents, the Black man. We should be ashamed of ourselves for wanting to forge ties with others who look down on us and think that they are all better than us. I say to hell with all these parasitic ‘unions’ which do not have our interest at heart. You will never be on par with them. They all see you as food- to be eaten and then expunged. Self-preservation and determination of the Black man should be our focus, not 2nd class citizenship with leeches.

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  • The agenda of the One World Government, which will necessitate the surrender of all soveriegn nation states, is so ungodly and utterly Anti-Christ, that to suggest as Hopi vehemently believes, that this is plan of the Bible, is so absurd, asinine, fatuous, as Almighty God’s divine revelation, from Genesis to Revelation, is in fact the complete antithesis, contradistinction, contraposition, opposite, diametric, reverse, of this evil, wicked, godless agenda of the ‘New World Order’ it is therefore, utter nonsense, illogical diatribe, and entirely incoherent, to associate this from the ‘pit’ of Hell One World Government, with God’s Word, the Bible, and those who the Lord divinely inspired to record His Word, which is centered on Redemption for all of mankind, through choice, not force, and blessed Peace, Joy, and eternal life for those who respond to this offer, paid for in FULL, by Jesus’ atoning Death, and Glorious Resurrection.

    Whereas, the diabolic, Satanic agenda, of the New World Order, is utter bondage, for ALL nation states, the very opposite of Almighty God’s revealed plan of redemption for those who willingly accept his Love, Mercy and Grace in, by, and through Jesus Christ.

    Hopi, you are so blinded and deceived, that you cannot distinguish the ‘trees’ from the jungle!!!

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  • Hopi my brother
    I totally agree with you.There is no fundamental difference between the 2 clown leaders.I just mentioned the cuss out to let everyone know about the infighting that took place in Guyana.

    Adrian Hinds
    My sources who were in Guyana related those stories.I wasn’t there in person,therefore I have to rely on information from my sources in Guyana.

    It must be noted that those events would not be substantiated by the persons involved for obvious reasons.I do not think the authorities will want what transpired with the cursing & threats to Barbadians in Guyana be made public.I know the authorities do not want to inflame an already explosive situation,but what I said occurred in Guyana.Michelle Arthur of CBC gave a little insight on Morning Barbados on CBC this morning.

    I indicated that Prime Minister David Thompson signed on to the expanded category of workers because Barbados has lead responsibility for CSME and not signing might have set a bad precedent.

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  • A fascinating thread. It’s a little hard to follow sometimes, because many contributors seem to find basic grammar a bit difficult. But that makes it even more fascinating.

    Does anybody yet have any reliable data about the number of illegal immigrants in Barbados?

    Anybody …? Even an educated guess …? Anything ….? Anything that isn’t simply a subliterate expression of incoherent racism …? Any number at all?

    Many thanks if you can help.

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  • @ David

    Your contributor “Zoe”, clearly, is absolutely priceless.

    Without question it is wonderful that you give “Zoe” and her fellows an outlet through which they can express their opinions.

    “Zoe” seems to be a religious person. Perhaps she or he can correct me on a matter of theology. I think that the Gospel of Mathew says this in Chapter 25, Verse 35: “For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you told me to fuck off to my own country because I was a ‘stinking Guyanese’.”

    Is that right?

    David, your site is still Number One in the Entire World for anyone searching the term “stinking Guyanese”.

    I hope for your sake that you’re happy with that.

    Like

  • I pity this jerk Jack Bowman

    He cannot get any attention at BFP so he has to return like a dog to its own vomit.

    After all he was one condemning this site,the very one he now rushes to,so as to give us insight into his wisdom.

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  • Thanks to Dennis Johnson for the shout out to BU on Fireworks today. Really enjoyed your program with Taylor and Mac!

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  • @ the little anonymous man

    Ah! The anonymous little man makes an anonymous little reply from his little overseas anonymity. How nice.

    Dear Mr. anonymous little man,

    You need a comma after the insult “jerk”. You need another comma after the word “all”. You need a space between “site” and “the”, and another space between “to” and “so”.

    Don’t hesitate to try to insult me again just as soon as you’ve learned how to put together a basic English sentence.

    My best wishes to you and yours.

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  • @David:
    Glad to know you listened.

    Just to add another thought to the CSME exchange:
    Peter Wickham, of CADRES, has worked [and continues to work] in several islands of the Caribbean, and always returns home to Barbados.
    Sen. Maxine McClean [prior to becoming a Senator] did the same. Worked in other Caribbean islands, and returned to her home.
    Sir Richard Cheltenham was recently holding a Commission of Inquiry in Grenada; Sir Frederick Smith was a Justice of the Court in Grenada; both completed their assignments, and returned to their homeland.
    SRM Architects have designed buildings in other Caribbean islands, and Altman Realty has an office in Grenada.
    And, last but by no means least, the gentleman who is currently the Political Advisor to the Prime Minister of Barbados has done [or is doing] similar advisory duties to other political leaders across the Caribbean.
    Question: would these, and others who may also be engaged in similar arrangements, be supportive of Barbados pulling out of CSME or Caricom?

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  • Jack yuh got me almost pissing my pants here. Wuhhhhhhlossssssss

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  • Bowman

    Yuh too glad that somebody notice you huh?

    You posted today on BFP some more nasty comments about BU,yet you can’t keep away.

    Bowman bourne,yuh hidiot.

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  • Interestingly put Denni J. Indeed, most persons living in a county other than their own, continue to be desirous of ‘returning’ home. I hope though that Caribbean people would come to realise that while their are expressive of ambitions for regional integration vis-a-vis economic more than political, at the end of the day it is social integration that will undergird any success. Things make me ask how many persons out there are cognisant of the Charter for Civil Society wit respect to CARICOM? I am sure that once we remove the myopia and narrow-mindedness that spills over into xenophobic sentiments, we may come to cherish the social capital that exists within CARICOM. CARICOM is blessed with rich diversities and differences; how we meet the challenges of fusing these into wholesome products for the development of the region is the task which remains. So, yes! We need CARICOM, we need the CSME, and we need each other very much.

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  • @ Checkmate-123

    That is some esoteric stuff.

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  • @ David
    What esoteric stuff what?!!
    …does esoteric mean ‘flushable’..???

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  • DJ you have given us reason not to accept as gospel, the pro caricom opinions of the person you mentioned. Their personal interest isn’t share by me. Whats in it for the rest of us is still a valid question and in need of an answer. They have theirs.

    @check mate;
    [CARICOM is blessed with rich diversities and differences; how we meet the challenges of fusing these into wholesome products for the development of the region is the task which remains. ]

    Well we cannot look to Britain for best practices in this regard. They are still amaze that British citizens wanted to and did kill other British citizens in a mass murder attempt, and in the name of someone other than the queen at that. I was hoping that we could look to communist China who are known for forcing people to do what central government want, but they seem unable to demish ethinic tension, violence and murder, after they force integration.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203547904574279952210843672.html

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  • We know that economics is at core cause for the high number of immigrants in Barbados

    http://www.barbadosforum.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=1330&view=findpost&p=71605

    http://www.barbadosforum.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=1330&view=findpost&p=71723

    Dennis Johnson clearly points out the personal nature of the pro-caricom/csme opinions of the regionalists, academics, and elites. The ethnic polarization continues unabated in Guyana and Trinidad, Caricom has not sought to deal with this since the Herdmanston accord of 1998, all around us societies are seeking to manage immigration flows primarily from an economic standpoint, 11 caribbean nations are considered fail states, http://www.barbadosforum.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=7603&view=findpost&p=71721 ……and the citizens from some of these countries who are known to practise something called “apanjaat” ones own kind are moving out in vast numbers to economies that are deemed to better than their own, and not one word from of concern about this. Not one word.

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  • @ Adrian:
    I was just pointing out that law-abiding Bajans were observing the letter and the spirit of CSME and Caricom: Enter a country legally; observe their Immigration laws; conduct your legitimate business; and return to your home when said business was over!
    Now, if only everyone else did the same, we would not have a problem; and those law-abiding Bajans would be able to serve a market of 7 million as opposed to a market of only 280,000 [that’s including the “undocumented”!]

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  • Dennis Johnson,

    Most Guyanese workmen (carpenters, masons, agricultural workers etc) are here on the invitation of Barbadian businesses and they “Enter a country legally; observe their Immigration laws; conduct their legitimate business;” and will return when the work is over. The problem for some is that many of these people are of Indian descent.

    When will you return to Grenada? What makes you different from the much maligned Guyanese?

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  • Of much greater significance are the reports of discriminatory trade practices by Jamaica (in relation to Hipak products) and St.Lucia (in relation to Chickmont). So much for CSME.

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  • DJ point taken, but I will support them only if they support me. If they cannot see the danger in open borders, I will not support their bread and butter comittment to caricom.

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  • Anonymous // July 10, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    Of much greater significance are the reports of discriminatory trade practices by Jamaica (in relation to Hipak products) and St.Lucia (in relation to Chickmont). So much for CSME.
    ————————————————-
    Both are equally as important.

    http://www.barbadosforum.com/index.php?act=Search&CODE=show&searchid=32ae9aa8ea440b26c894cdec2a2ba50b&search_in=posts&result_type=posts&highlite=%2Bjuxtapose

    I can also make a compelling case for why Imported regional labour should concern us more than imported regional good.

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  • @ Adrian
    “If they cannot see the danger in open borders, I will not support their bread and butter comittment to caricom.”
    *************************************
    AH, there is no danger in open borders if you have nothing of interest to outsiders. (This is why churches can leave their doors open all day, while banks have security guards.)

    The concept of free movement is total nonsense – except to those who, having failed to make a success of their own house, now wish to argue that it is their god-given right to free access to your desirable home which you worked and made sacrifices to establish.

    It is much like arguing that in order for the whole society to prosper, we should throw open the doors to the bank.

    Bush Tea can’t fault the Jagdeos and Ricky Singhs of this world for arguing that they have this right, (it is this kind of thinking that leads them to be failures and refugees in the first place) but the really laughable idiots in the whole scenario are those of us who fail to see that the final result will be that we will all end up just like them.

    The solution to this problem is for those who have failed to MODEL those who are succeeding – not to overwhelm them….

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  • @Jack Bowman, the context of Matthew 25: 35, feeding the hungry, etc, cannot be applied to the situation of ‘illegal’ residents in Barbados, who have knowingly and willfully flouted the laws of the land.

    Scripture must always be interpreted in light of Scripture, when dealing with the same subject matter. Let us also hear Jesus on governmental authority.

    “Tell us, therefore, what do You (Jesus) think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not? But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, ‘Why do you test Me, you hypocrites? Show Me the tax money,’ So they brought Him a denarius. And He said to them, ‘Whose image and inscription in this?’ They said to Him, “Caesar’s” And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s.” ( Matt. 22: 17-21).

    An earthly state provides for the welfare of its ‘citizens’ who are thus obligated to support the government. But, citizens of God’s kingdom also owe allegiance to Him. Ideally, there should be no conflict between the two kingdoms (see Rom. 13: 1-7), but where there is disharmony allegiance to God takes precedence (see Acts 4: 18-20).

    Submit to Government.
    Romans 13: 1-7.

    “Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there IS NO authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.” (v.1).

    “Therefore whoever resist the authority resist the ordinance of God, and those who ‘resist’ will be judged on themselves.” (v.2).

    “For the rulers are not a terror to good works, (what is lawful) but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good (lawful) and you will have praise from the same.”
    (v.3).

    “For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister; an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.” (v. 4).

    “Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.” ( v. 7).

    It is very clear from God’s Word, that the authorities that exist are appointed by God. See also Daniel 4: 32; Psa 75; 6, 7.

    However, this does not mean that God approves a corrupt government, ungodly officials or unjust legislation. Sometimes, however, in punishment for the sins of a people, or for other reasons known to Him, God allows evil rulers to have authority for a time, as the OT prophets frequently testify. Ideally, God grants authority to serve good ends (vv. 3, 4). How that authority is exercised will be the accounting of each to whom it has been given.

    Although obedience to earthly authority is the general rule, a clear biblical principle is that we may need to disobey government if commanded to sin, for loyalty to God always takes priority over human authority (see Esth. 4:16; Dan. 3: 12-18; 6:10; Matt. 2:12; Acts 5: 29; Heb. 11:23).

    When government officials use force to restrain and punish evil, they are not doing wrong. Rather, they are God’s minister (servant) and are doing good. Therefore, Christians may serve as police officers and soldiers in good conscience.

    ‘Bear the sword’ is to carry and use weapons. This implies the right to carry out capital punishment on wrongdoers, for swords were used to take people’s lives. The fact that God authorizes governments as His servants to use force even to the point of taking human life does NOT contradict the command “You shall not murder” in Exo. 20: 13). The word used in that commandment refers to criminal murder and does not include judicial taking of life or killing in war, for which the OT uses other words. The same is true of the Greek word translated “kill” or “murder” in such NT passages as Matt. 21>

    “To execute wrath” Sometimes God’s wrath is carried out through civil government, when it punishes wrongdoers. This means that civil punishments should not only be imposed for the purpose of restraining evil, but also for the purpose of retribution.

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  • So when did we become a theocracy, GP?

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  • Bush Tea, if there is one person from this blog that I will accept the opportunity to meet, um is you? Crystal clear do you communicate your points.

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  • Anonymous
    You’re so wrong, most guyanese now in Barbados are here illegally, running from the Jagdeo government and you know that too.

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  • Trinidadians are in charge of our “National” Bank, our airport and a Swede/Trini is charge of CBC. Now a Trini is to be put in charge of the QEH.

    CSME wukking!! The Trinidadians ain’t minding Dennis Johnson and staying in Trinidad.

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  • Johnnie Too Bad

    I once again must return to this very vexed question, Is the CSME working? Can it ever work? Should the people not decide whether we want it or not? Can someone please explain to me what are the real benefits of the damn thing? If it is of no benefit to us, should we not be doing something about improving the lot of Caribbean people everywhere?
    Our major problem here is that we have leaders who do not care about whether or not we , the people, are taken along with them or not. Nowhere in the past fifteen years have I seen or heard publicly or privately anyone talking about asking the people what they want.
    If as I believe from Adrian Hinds that CSME is suppose to work like the European Union, then we have already failed miserably. For one thing we do not have the structures in place and for another, we cannot protect our own borders. Did not any of the politicians forsee that if you say that freedom of movement is a benefit, then people will rush from a low wage economy to a higher waged country. After all don’t blame the people for trying to improve their lot for them and their families.
    The blame lies fairly and squarely at the foot of our leaders, none of the parties as far as I know had any real and meaningful discussions about the CSME.
    What is clearly at fault here is the roles played by all the half baked politicians throughout the Caribbean . They have been strutting their stuff about a political union, without taking on board, the social, economic, cultural and above all the will of the respective people. If I could get all my cousins and near relatives from Guyana I would bring a whole boat load to Barbados. Which of you Bajans would begrudge a human being for running from a failed state to help their family? Can the honest folk not get past the xenophobia of some Bajans like Adrian?
    We come together to play cricket and were successful at it for many years, now we must separate at feeding time . Where is the Bajans brotherly love?
    Johnnietoobad.

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  • The fact that Barbados is lead on CSME matters and Prime Minister Arthur would have won 3 terms being very active in that role is instructive.

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  • I do not usually respond to personal attacks; I prefer to deal with issues! However, “Anonymous” [whoever he or she may be] insists on trying to be insulting [“mealy mouth”] or misrepresenting things I wrote [“The Trinidadians ain’t minding Dennis Johnson and staying in Trinidad.”]

    I have repeatedly said that CSME [if it is allowed to work in the manner in which Bajans have utilized it in the examples I gave] can work!
    If you are a national of any Caribbean island, and you wish to apply for a job advertised in another island for which you are qualified, you should be able to APPLY for the job. If successful, you should be able to work, PROVIDING you are able to satisfy the requirements of Immigration. At the end of your tenure, you return to your home [wherever that is!]

    My problem has always been, and will always be, ILLEGAL residents.
    I do not support social disorder, in any form.

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  • It seems like the illegal immigrants & their cohorts are now even attacking the Immigration Department just because the officers that enforce immigration law are doing their job !

    First it was threats,now a response,what next ?Hopefully,the RBPF is successful with their investigation & further terrorist type attacks on Government buildings will not be tolerated !

    ———————————————-
    http://www.nationnews.com/news/local/Glass-broken-at-Immigration-copy-for-web

    NO ONE KNOWS who did it.

    But tongues were wagging yesterday morning, after the discovery of a broken glass door at the Immigration Department on the Wharf Road, The City.

    According to Public Relations Officer Station Sargeant Anthony Depieza: “It was reported by a messenger who saw a small hole around 8:30 a.m. on Sunday morning” and “the incident is currently being investigated”.

    However, whether the small hole finally collapsed or whether a bigger stone was thrown through it, is yet to be known.

    This Gregory Waldron picture shows the gaping hole, which was evident to all who passed the Wharf Road yesterday.”

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  • Johnson

    who you trying to fool (you hope to run for a seat in the next election)??? … illegal = indian for many if not the majority of persons in this debate. For years (long before CSME), Vincentians, Lucians and (even) Grenadians have been coming to Barbados and taking up residence with no problem at all. In fact Guyanese (read Black Guyanese) have been coming here with no problem. [ isn’t it ironic that some of the most accomplished and creative “Bajans” are Guyanese to wit Rihanna, Obadele Thompson, Philip and Rita Forrester, Karl Broodhagen, Derry Atkins, Stanley Greaves, Olga Lopes- Seale, Cecil deCaires and others]. There has been no social disorder! What happen now? All of a sudden “illegal” immigration is a problem, social disorder is looming, the end of the world is nigh! What pup!At least Negroman is honest in his expression of his views.

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  • It looks like no matter where in the world you are there are immigration problems.I find it interesting that the current Canada & Czech situation is quite similar to that of Barbados & Guyana.

    The Czechs are trying to appeal to the rest of the EU’s schengen area to retaliate against the recent Canadian visa restrictions by imposing EU wide visa restrictions on Canada.Guyana is using the same methods by appealing to the rest of Caricom to force Barbados to capitulate by approving of Domestic workers in CSME instead of visa restrictions with the Czech-Canada fiasco.The Canucks have not capitulated & could care less even with an economic deal with the EU,but our Prime Minister HAS capitulated.So ends this lesson to the DLP Prime Minister on what SOVEREIGNTY really means about enforcing the interests of Barbados’ Citizens .

    ——————————————-
    http://www.canada.com/news/Czech+Republic+recalls+ambassador+over+visa+battle/1789231/story.html

    “OTTAWA — Immigration Minister Jason Kenney said Tuesday he is not worried about retaliation after Canada’s decision to slap visas on Mexican and Czech Republic tourists.

    Kenney particularly dismissed the Czech government for petitioning the 27-member European Union to invoke its “solidarity” clause that could lead to a retaliatory visa being slapped on Canada.

    “There’s a certain degree to playing to domestic audience there,” Kenney told Canwest News Service.

    After speaking with the European Union’s acting ambassador to Canada prior to Monday’s announcement, Kenney said, “They have never given us any indication they intend to impose a visa restriction on Canada.” He said the EU respects the visa requirement Canada has already imposed on its members, Romania and Bulgaria.

    Kenney also said the vast majority of Mexico’s refugee claimants are economic migrants from the middle class, and that they must not be allowed to jump Canada’s immigration queue.

    Mexicans are the No. 1 asylum seeker to Canada, tripling to 9,400 from four years ago. But 90 per cent of those claims are rejected.

    The Czech Republic is second with 3,000 claims, up from five that were made in 2006 prior to the lifting of a Canadian visa requirement in late 2007.

    “In some of the flights coming from Prague, the majority of passengers are making asylum claims,” said Kenney, noting that Prime Minister Stephen Harper first raised the issue of the Czech Republic’s soaring asylum claims with his counterpart in February 2008.

    Since then, the Canadian government has been working with Czech officials to find a solution.

    “If there’s criticism, then it should be: Why have you waited so long?” said Kenney.

    “This decision is in no way a negative reflection on either the Czech Republic and Mexico. This is about the integrity of Canada’s immigration system.”

    The Czech ambassador to Canada, Karel Zebrakovsky, told Canwest News Service Tuesday that his government’s goal is to persuade Canada cancel the visa restriction, which was announced Monday.

    Though the EU’s review of the complaint could take weeks, Zebrakovsky did not rule out pushing the EU to retaliate.

    “There is such a possibility. It is a matter for negotiation in Brussels among all the member countries of the European Union,” he said, before boarding a flight back to Prague after being recalled by his government in protest.

    The Czech government just finished a six-month term holding the EU presidency during which it greased the wheels for the Conservative government to formally begin free trade talks with the powerful European bloc. In fact, Harper announced the trade deal, which could be worth $12 billion to Canada, on a visit to Prague in May.

    “We spent the first half of this year doing as much as we can to start it. Actually it was very successful,” said Zebrakovsky. “I am not very happy. I feel it was not necessary.””

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  • I have always appreciated Dennis Johnson’s contribution to any debate, because he is analytical, objective, rational and reasonable; unfortunately, there are those who simply cannot ‘think’ critically, so that call him all sorts of things.

    BTW, the Karl Broodhagen, Olga Lopes-Seal, Cecil DeCaries et al, is an entirely different era, to the problem(s) we are now facing with the Guyanese influx to B’dos, one cannot rationally compare the two.

    As DJ said, his concern is with ‘illegal’ residents, for this is the crux of the matter, regardless, the ‘Law’ must be adhered to, no one is exempt from this!

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  • Right on implicitly claims to think critically: I am yet to hear or read anyone promote the breaking of the laws with regard to immigration. When did Barbadian authorities stop enforcing the law with regard to immigration? I worked in the construction field over 8 years ago and I can well remember those times when immigration officers would visit the work sites and remove those who were working without proper authorisation. To cut a long story short, this issue about “illegal” immigrants has arisen with the increased numbers of Guyanese migrants of Indian ethnicity. Furthermore it is my contention that most of these migrants are documented i.e there are not “illegal”. It does not matter what attributes you ascribe to Johnson, on this matter he just blowing hot air.

    If we (Bajans) fear Indian domination then just say so and come out of CARICOM and the CSME. Otherwise it is a nonsense to try to believe that Barbados can participate in the CSME without Guyana or without their citizens of Indian ethnicity. We probably need to follow the Bahamas who refused to join the CSME or to engage CARICOM beyond specific areas of functional cooperation mainly to avoid having to let in more Haitians who were already a problem to them.

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  • @BU/David

    I am writing this comment to let BU know that the show Locked Up Abroad will have a show next week highlighting the story of a UK citizen that was caught at Grantley Adams International Airport trying to export cocaine from Barbados to the UK.The show will air next week on July 22nd & usually showcases many stories from Aussie,UK & American citizens from around the world concerning their incarceration in other countries.It will be a worldwide release on National geographic,just a heads up !

    http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/locked-up-abroad/4389/Overview

    “Zara Whittaker, from an impoverished family in Southeast London, left behind her months-old baby to go to Barbados and smuggle cocaine back. She never thought anything could go wrong — her partner in crime had done it 12 times before. Once in Barbados, she found out she was pregnant with her second baby, but felt that shed spent too much of the drug dealers money to pull out. Stopped by the police at the airport, Zara was given a five year prison sentence. She gave birth in Barbados, and after three heartbreaking months, had to give the baby up.”

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  • @Anonymous, “Futhermore it is my contention that most of these migrants (Indian ethnicity) are documented i.e., there are not ‘illegal.”

    Where is the EVIDENCE? Prove your unsubstantiated contention! Not hot air!

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  • The former Prime Minister, Sir LLoyd Sandiford, made some very interesting comments yesterday at the DLP luncheon in George Street. Among the comments made is that of the CSME which he thinks is a lesson in futility and one which Barbados can stay far from. Free movement of people within the region is another, he thinks it wouyld be to the detriment of the better offf countries and would devalue the living conditions of these more developed countries. Until the wicket is more level free migration would be a catastrophe, he said. Even though these statements are not new, it is freshing to hear it coming from a well respected senior stateman and one from the ruling party. It means the DLP seems to be thinking about easing out maybe adopt a Bahamas approach to Caricom

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  • We are concerned about the influx of regional migrants from especially Guyana but what about a trickle at first of Haitians and then an increase as those that are here financial position gets better and they start bringing over their family and relatives like the guyanese are doing? Free movement? NO WAY

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  • The Dominicans Opposition leadership has decided to wade in on the immigration debate. Bear in mind Prime Minister Skerrit has responsibility for movement of people in CSME. Sound familiar? One could be facetious and ask Pestaina, why now?

     

    DFP leader raises migration concerns

    BY CMC

    ROSEAU, Dominica, CMC – The leader of the Dominica Freedom Party (DFP), Judith Pestaina, has added her voice to the raging debate on regional migration, while accusing the Roosevelt Skerrit administration of having no clear policy on the movement of Caribbean nationals.

    “It is an adhoc policy, if it is any policy at all,” she told the Caribbean Media Corporation (CMC).

    “We don’t know at this point how many immigrants we have in the country, whether it is Haitians, Santo Domingans, Chinese, name it, we don’t know. People come, people go,” she said.

    The DFP leader said she was also concerned that there were no concrete figures available on migrants and what she termed the ease at which non nationals were being accorded Dominican citizenship.

    “How can you give people a Dominican passport after two years in the country?” she asked. – Full Article

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  • Zoe of all people asking for evidence!!

    One could (and should) ask Zoe for the evidence that MOST Guyanese migrants of Indian ethnicity ARE “illegal”.

    There are claims that hundreds of such persons have entered Barbados. I have not heard the Immigration dept. report that a majority of them are still in the country beyond their allotted time.

    It appears that Zoe is a follower of the ‘ole time religion’ that was racist as well as ignorant.

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  • Again , I’ll say this, The security of this country is so fragile right now. We have thousands of chinese walking around the streets of Barbados and pretending that they don’t speak english, yet they can communicate with local workers on their sites. When they speak their language, do we know what they are planning? This is my country and if you are here learn to speak MY language and respect My flag, My anthem, My pledge, My culture and My religion, or leave.

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  • Which is your religion, Scout?

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  • But Scout don’t you want the St. John polyclinic and the Empire theatre rebuilt? Mr Thompson certainly seems enamored with the Chinese.

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  • Themis
    I am a CHRISTIAN
    Anonymous
    Who built the Central Bank, and all the other buildings before the chinese or guyanese came here?

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  • One ‘Anonymous’ is certainly full of a lot of ‘Hot-Air’ offering no substance to this debate, just a lot of ‘Red-Herrings’ and strawmen, ignited with the flame of ‘ignorance.’

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  • mash up & buy back

    I have just read Lindsay Holder’s article on the cost-benefit analysis of immigrants in the Advocate’s Business Monday paper.

    I agree with the conclusion ,but wondered if lindsay considered the high outflow of foreign exchange through workers’ remittances as one of the cost or downside of immigrant labour.

    Remmitances have been increasing in large measures since 2003.

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  • Had a quick read as well. Lindsay Holder promised to submit to BU the articles for posting, when he does maybe we can have a good discussion to clarify issues. It is a long article and requires a second reading on our part before comment. Again we congratulate Lindsay Holder on his effort to provide a different perspective to the debate. Peter Wickham should take a note given his role as a public commentator.

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  • Right on

    thanks for providing nothing to which I need respond.

    PM Thompson has definitively stated his administration’s intention to pursue all the objectives of the CSME including freedom of movement of citizens of participating countries. Sir Lloyd Sandiford does not seem to agree with that policy.

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  • Sylvan I agree with you, they are alot them down at starcom belonging to the M.I.A foundation, and Ellis who was a little puppy before Owen now wants to disrespect our wonderful PM.

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  • MUBB,
    I tried to avoid getting into all of the technical details of how you treat different types of expenditure or uses of money. If the analysis is done in detail then the foreign exchange costs of the remittances out of the earnings of migrants would be taken into account. There are two valid reasons, however, why I have not focussed on that aspect. The first is that from an overall perspective the remittances are not that significant. Secondly, if the jobs now performed by immigrants were performed by locals, the overall exchange outflows would be about the same.

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  • mash up & buy back

    LINDSAY

    Didn’t you read today that remittances for workers amounted to close to 100 million barbados dollars for 2007.

    Remember that is foreign exchange leaving our shores.

    Not an amount to sneeze at,I am sure.

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  • MUBB,
    The key point is that the spending patterns of bona fide Barbadians and migrants are different. If Barbadians were doing the jobs that migrants were doing, then rather than remittances by migrants we would witness an almost equivalent foreign expenditure component on other goods and services purchased by Barbadians. The major exception would occur if Barbadians, doing the jobs that migrants are currently performing, saved the amount that migrants are currently remitting. However, most low income workers do not save a significant portion of their income.

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  • lholder
    I always agree will most of the comments in your articales, however, this time I totally disagree. The remittances being sent out of barbados weekly, IS hurting our foreign exchange. The matter become more acute as the crisis deepens and the influx continues. Let’s face it guyanese, especially, are STILL flocking into Barbados, it will be well near impossible for the Barbados government to deport all of them. The understanding is, the more of them the less chances of deportation
    Who will pay, the Barbados government CANNOT foot that bill and Jagdeo is not interested. Yet every week more and more foreign exchange will be leavingf barbados. Guyanese are willing to pay up to 4 to 1 (bds) for U.S currency.

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  • It is time the regional leaders realise that Caricom/CSME, while technically is a good thing, will NEVER happen. With all these leaders wanting to be at the podium at the same time, because none of them trust each other. Look at what is happening in cricket, T&T is now considering going alone. Eric Williams might be dead but Trinis still know new maths.

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  • mash up & buy back

    Hear a caller to CBC 100.7 f.m. talking about an accident on the spring garden highway on sunday involving a whole family of illegal guyanese.

    He said the police and fire officers came and they were all taken to the hospital for free health care paid for by the tax payers of barbados and no one asked about their status.

    Yet these guyanese writing in starbroek every day about how wicked and inhumane bajans are.

    Biting the hands that feeds it is what comes to my mind.

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  • MUBB
    That same illegal group of guyanese are going to not only bite off the hands but the entire body just now. That is what you get when you play decent with people that can’t even spell the word.

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  • The Scout,
    My arguments are based on sound Economics. Assume that the remittances are made out of earnings for legitimate work, work that had to be done and that otherwise would have been done by Barbadians or some other group of persons. Then, the foreign exchange cost of those remittances is no different to the foreign exchange cost of expenditure on goods and services that would have been purchased by an alternative group of individuals doing the same work done by the Guyanese.

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  • I think I understand what you are saying but i prefer if bajans were the ones taking advantage or control of what foreign exchange we utilise. For example, there are many migrants, legal and illegal, working in jobs that bajans are being rejected. E.G in stores in Swans St. Etc. These unemplyed bajans still have to buy items and spend foreign exchange whether directly or indirectly. What is happening is the little savings bajans were accumillating to spend at Christmas or other such occasions have dried up. In some cases this can lead to an increase in crime as some folks intend to continue their spending habits. While this is happening Barbados foreign exchange is haemorrhaging. At the end of the day, like a cancer, when their is nothing left, the patient dies. Unlike the cancer in the patient, this cancer is contageous and simple moves on to do the same damage to someone else. Get rid of the cancer NOW.

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  • The Scout,
    Your comments are valid. That is precisely why we must get rid of the bulk of the undocumented immigrants.

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  • How does an undocumented migrant get foreign exchange to send to their homeland? I am a Bajan and getting US$ from a bank requires certain documentation. Is the outflow in BDS$? The black market in US$ must therefor be considerable. Can I also assume that this black market is ran by Bajans?

    Like

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