Submitted by The Scout

rope-nooseQuite recently, the then Foreign Affairs The Hon. Chis Sinckler signed an agreement to retain the death sentence in Barbados, However, we have all come to realize that this is just a formality, since any attempt at carrying out that sentence is blocked even if it meant convening a court session in the middle of the night. All kinds of arguments about human rights are brought up by the Caribbean and the World human rights association/societies.

At present, we have a number of murderers in prison, some who are still eligible to be hung, yet it seems we’re purposely waiting for the time to expire just to keep them at the expense of the taxpayers of this country. While we in Barbados who are members of the CCJ are reluctant in carrying out the death sentence, St.Kitts, a member of the British Privy Council, at 8.A.M today 19th December 2008, hung a man who two years ago murdered his wife.

Will this hanging open the door to such executions in Barbados?

With so many murders being committed in our neighbouring countries and the influx of all kinds of people into Barbados, we need to send a strong message to those who think they can come here and get off easily. I urge the powers that be to take another look at not just retaining the death sentence but for heinous crimes implement such.

175 responses to “Recent Public Execution In St.Kitts”


  1. Capital punishment, and, although not on the same abhorrent levels, corporal punishment, are relics from the past. All civilised societies will ultimately reject them. God bless.


  2. You know although I have read Sir Errol Walton’s Speech printed below a million times ….. I still get goose pimples WOW!


  3. @Scout,
    It does please Bush Tea’s heart to read your posts -and to remember why Barbados continues to be the best place on earth – no matter how much we get worked up about those problems that we certainly have.

    You have ‘common sense’!!
    You will never know how blessed you (and a number of other Bajans) are.

    For example, you are dead right about hanging…. and immediately, one ‘permanent resident’ comes on talking about ‘civilized countries’ who no longer ‘do that’ or even have corporal punishment.
    …No they don’t have these things, they have school massacres, universal drug culture, and huge prisons that create a subculture of violence and vice that is unimaginable.

    What civilized what?!?

    One has to be a complete idiot, or apparently, to be from the ‘developed’ world not to see the folly in their ‘enlightened’ position.

    The truth is that capitol/corporal punishment is NOT about deterring crime, nor about retribution either… It is intended to emphasise to everyone, exactly how SERIOUS the community is about certain types of crime.

    In the case of murder, capital punishment is intended to say ‘We hold life so DEARLY, that this society will go to the EXTREME step of taking your own life -should you dare to take an innocent life.’

    permres and his lot has upgraded that to now say ‘never mind if you take an innocent life – or even many, We have no real strong feelings about it – at least not strong enough to take yours- but we have to do SOMETHING, so go to jail where you now have nothing more to lose -and see how many guards and other prisoners you can terrorize….

    …and we wonder why these ‘advanced’ countries will all implode in the next 18 months????


  4. Could this be a reaction to the murders in Antigua earlier this year? If so expect more in the EC. Those countries stick together.


  5. Permres
    People like you would argue about not implementing the death penalty until a close family or relative of yours is murdered. Then you would want to be the executioner. the victim’s family/relatives bear so much trauma for so many years while the murderer live in prison eating and causing havoc in jail.i was told a condemned murderer once bodyslam a prison officer on the yard one day. When they tried him he told the magistrate, he soory the officer didn’t die. He condemn already, they can’t kill him twice.


  6. If consecutive governments don’t plan to carry out the death sentence, why keep it on the statute books and constantly renew it.They are playing with the intellegence of the Barbadian electorate.


  7. wish they would hang here too

  8. Carson C. Cadogan Avatar

    I will always have grave doubts about capital punishment here in Barbados.

    Are all the death row inmates in Barbados black males?

    Are there any inmates on death row in Barbados white? If not not why not? Don’t white people kill other people? Or just not in Barbadso?
    Are they any inmates on death row in Barbados who are Indian? If not why not? Don’t Indians kill other people? Or just not in Barbados?
    Are they any Oriental inmates on death row in Barbados? If not why not Don’t Orientals kill people? Or just not in Barbados?

    I find this to be very troubling. Over the past decades there are a number of unsolved murders here in Barbados. Why are they cases still unsolved? Could it be that the fingers started to point to killers of different races other than black people and money and/or influence came into play and investigations come to an abrupt end? We all remember the famous canefield murders.

    It is a little hard to believe that only black males kill people in Barbados.


  9. @ Carson
    Why is it so hard to believe? With 95% black, the probability is that within that majority the few that will do something abhorant will be more than those within the minority . However, while I can appreciate your rhetorical question, we must not fail to realise that those who do commit these henious crimes do not consider that there are consequences for their actions because we as a society do not demand that there should be consequences for deviance.

    Why should we all live behind bars for the sake of safety?


  10. CCC is such an ass !!


  11. Carson
    Your points are very well made.Why are Black Barbadians seeking the blood of other Black Barbadians.I do not support criminal activity nor murder.However,I am a strong defender of not supporting capital punishment.State sanctions executions are murder.Therefore 2 wrongs cannot make it right.Murder is unfortunate.There is no conclusive evidence that the implementation of capital punishment has any impact on murder in any society.It is not a deterrent.
    Carson,You remember the case where 2 Indians school girls were poisoned at Breakfast in Belleville in the late 1980’s because both of them were dating & having sex with Black men.Did the perpetrators of that crime ever brought to justice?
    There is the famous case where a white bank manager murdered his wife and the poor Black gardener man was hanged for that murder.Subsequent events showed that the husband murdered his wife and he even boasted about it.Was that white bank manager ever brought to justice?
    The death penalty is barbaric,inhumane & anti-life.It should be abolish in Barbados.

  12. Capital punishment a deterrent? Avatar
    Capital punishment a deterrent?

    The slogan “There is no proof that capital punshiment is a deterrent to murder” is grounded and nurtured in folly.
    This is a ploy of those not in favour of the death penalty to confuse and deliberately mistake the reason for capital punshiment.
    THE DEATH PENALTY WAS INSTITUTED AS PUNISHMENT FOR THE CRIME OF MURDER!

    Also, resorting to race is illogical and smacks of shalowness of
    understanding.
    The fact that people are able to escape punishment for crimes they committed is not soely related to race. It is also rooted in variables such as: Social class, wealth and – lodge connections
    Facts – and those are facts!

  13. Capital punishment a deterrent? Avatar
    Capital punishment a deterrent?

    Facts-“…confuse and deliberately mistake..” Should be “misstate”

  14. Capital punishment a deterrent? Avatar
    Capital punishment a deterrent?

    Negroman,
    “…two wrongs don’t make a right…”
    ———————————————-
    Who is the judge of capital punishment not being right?
    Capital punishment is the penalty for the crime committed. And this punishment should be reserved for all, regardless of race, who perpetuate the crime.

    I have a project for all those who are not in favour of the death penalty: Please research the growing trend of persons who served time for murder and ascertain how many committed murder again.
    You will find the results surprising.
    Facts


  15. My view is personal. So death penalty supporters and non-supporters for racial reasons or whatever, please note I am allowed to hold that opinion.

    I am completely opposed to the death penalty. It is a soft option for governments, instead of the hard option, which is working on the society itself.

    There are, of course, a lot of other reasons I am opposed, but this is such an emotional issue in our country and those of us who are against know why, as do those who are for. There are arguments on both sides all sound and we can argue into the next decade and beyond and it is unlikely that any one of us will change anybody’s minds. It is an extremely personal issue, as supporting (or not) of the taking of a life in cold blood (or any blood) ought to be.

    I am against the death penalty and I support Amnesty International on that. However, I would not have a problem with the return of the cat.


  16. All you people who oppose the death sentence will only do that until a close relative of family member is murdered. Then you would want to be the executioner. Why should we be feeding a bunch of murderers who has no right to life anymore. Yet we go to war and kill innocent people in the name of “country,” is this right? I hear the story of a condemned murderer in Barbados who body slamed a prison officer and at his trial told the magistrate he’s soory the officer isn’t dead . His reason is that he is already comdemned to die and they can’t kill him twice.Comdemned murderers are the worse people to deal with and our prison has quite a few that just ruling things in jail.

  17. Adrian Loveridge Avatar

    ‘An appeal that was filed in a St. Kitts court on Laplace’s behalf was dismissed in October because his lawyers missed a deadline, Douglas (Prime Minister) said’

    Mike Melia – Associated Press – 20 December 2008


  18. @ Scout

    Wha sorta christian you is dat believe in hanging people?
    And for your information, people are hanged not “hung.”

    Wunna is one backward set o people, wunna like hanging, beating school children, wunna hate foreigners and de list goes on.

    Does hanging another human being seem humane to you?
    Ah, you are a self-proclaimed christian right?
    Then we should bring back the roman practice and nail them to a cross in de middle o broad street so people like you can pass and spit pon dem.
    Ya idiot!


  19. In my youth I was against capital punishment and with age my position has become entrenched.

    In some jurisdictions a head lopped off to roll on the hard baked earth I find abhorrent, my abhorrence is not diminished because this activity – Government sanctioned killing – is carried out in the spartan surroundings of an air conditioned room.

    This is a challenging issue in which one struggles to hold a position in the face of heinous crimes and brutality committed on a mass scale. When I am asked why should tax payers foot the bill for a lifetime incarceration for murderers. I simply say that is the price – a heavy one – “society” has to pay. When the follow up question is suppose one of my relatives was murdered, how would I feel? That is an emotional argument, to be a judge or magistrate one has to be “fair” that often means being dispassionate. For that reason judges and magistrates should not sit on cases when they have a connection.

    I fully understand the other side of the argument, I do not say they are “wrong” my position is clear in my head – theirs no doubt is – and one that I can live with regardless of the circumstances.


  20. Negroman, BWWR, I agree with you. Capital punishment is a relic of a misguided era and is only carried out by the most intellectually and socially backward jurisdictions in the world, including some in the USA.
    @ Scout, Sinckler did not sign any agreement to continue the death penalty in Barbados, it has always been on the books, but it is inconsistent with treaties we have signed. And St Kitts is not a MEMBER of the Privy Council, it’s just their and the OECS’ final court of Appeal in preference to the CCJ.

  21. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    If religious bias is removed from the debate, it is difficult for any rational person who examines all the available statistics and information on the subject to support the death penalty.
    Personally, this is one occasion where my religious and empirical investigations are in complete concurrence. I oppose the death penalty.

    … but just to give a quick example of how emotion often overtakes ‘common sense’ take this submission above:
    “No they {referring to ‘civilized countries’} don’t have these things, they have school massacres, universal drug culture, and huge prisons that create a subculture of violence and vice that is unimaginable”… the facts are that the countries who best fit this description are those with the HIGHEST rate of death penalty executions.
    Here are the top five death penalty executors last year:
    1. China
    2. Iran
    3. Saudi Arabia
    4. Pakistan
    5. USA

    Combined these 5 countries account for around 90% of the world’s annual executions… I know… the 5 countries you would most like to live in 🙂

  22. Carson C. Cadogan Avatar
    Carson C. Cadogan

    sonofdsoil

    “Why is it so hard to believe? With 95% black”

    Let’s take America for instance, blacks are in the monority, yet 95% of death row inamtes are black.


  23. MME

    such use of statistics make me feel warm all over (but given where the Devil comes from that’s no biggie…). Why not try correlating the countries with the highest murder rate (i.e per head of population) and their non application of the death penalty? Colombia, South Africa and that gem of the Caribbean Jamaica all figure prominently … places I’m sure you would most like to live in.


  24. We dont need the death penalty.
    There is no punishment harsher than 23 hours of solitary confinement for the life.

  25. Carson C. Cadogan Avatar
    Carson C. Cadogan

    NEGROMAN

    I am remember both cases well and I feel fairly sure that these cases are not the only ones.

    Like you I abhor murder, but I still wonder how many black males have been dispatched to the great beyond for murders that they did not commit.
    Many black men have been realeased in America from death row for murders that they did not commit. This is in a country where they have the most advanced methods of crime detection and yet they get it wrong.
    What about Barbados where sloppy police work is the norm.


  26. Who said that Jamaica, South Africa and Colombia dont have the death penalty?

    Wha ya does call dah? That’s an unofficial death penalty whereby a vigilante system emerges in the absence of a proper state-run judicial system.
    It’s called natural justice.

    Therein lies my point. Who needs the death penalty? Let natural justice prevail.


  27. Bushman yah wrong this time, dead wrong. As a result yah got ta deal with MME on your own.
    As per BWWR Capital Punishment is a soft option for governments.

    Loveman, the man gets hanged because “his lawyers missed a deadline”. In Trinidad a man was hanged (the last of nine) after a prosecutor withheld evidence that would prove his innocence. No one is charged for such actions.

    Scoute Ya (Christian) idiot!
    If my child was murdered I would want to seek revenge on the public servants/officials and media people who are paid large salaries to educate/enlighten and protect the population; who have chosen to take on the responsibility to create the policies and environment to ensure that we are all safe and free to prosper. With so much blame to go around how could you chose one person only as the fall guy?


  28. Oh me oh my! The topic of capital punishment is introduced and right on cue race enters the equation. Fellow bloggers, this is not about race – it is about the breakdown of society and the disrespect shown by some.

    In order for a society to function you must have rules. If those rules are broken there has to be a consequence.


  29. The problem with capital punishment is that the state can make a mistake. It’s better for the state not to hang a single person than to make a single mistake.


  30. I have conflicting views on this issue on the death penalty as well as corporal punishment. That said, one of the more insightful comments on this thread has been made by BWWR who wrote:

    “I am completely opposed to the death penalty. It is a soft option for governments, instead of the hard option, which is working on the society itself.”

    I would only point out that governments come from society not the other way around.

    and a further poke at MME; reference to religious (instincts?) or investigations comes with a high probability of getting the wrong result.

    On superficial investigation it appears that those countries that are the least murderous are the least religious.

  31. Carson C. Cadogan Avatar
    Carson C. Cadogan

    “If those rules are broken there has to be a consequence”

    How come only black people face the consequences?


  32. @BAFBFP
    I have been known to be wrong before – last documented case was in 1977. But in this case I am absolutely right.

    When you get women (or effeminate men) making decisions that should be made by leaders (real men) you can depend on emotional, ‘feel good’ decisions – But the RESULTS always tell the tale….

    As I said, Capital punishment was NEVER intended as ‘retribution’ or as a deterrent to murder. It is a basic ground rule that sets the standard of the value of life in the society.

    If you wish to lower that standard – fine, but the expected results should be obvious.

    Similarly with corporal punishment. Obviously a good parent should NEVER hit a child. but we MUST have an absolute standard and limits which MUST be delineated with meaningful consequences that ARE applied when needed.

    Let us look at how nature works – various actions result in appropriate consequences -whether the sissies among us think that these consequences are ‘fair’ or not….

    This is the price of having an ordered society. We all always want to have the positive benefits without having ‘paid the price’, but in the end- we ALWAYS pay.

    ..and it explains why so many of our ‘advanced’ societies are so disorderly.

    @MME, your analysis is fatally flawed. The murder vs hanging relationship is a complex relationship that depends on many other variables. Certainly Muslim and communist countries introduce many other complex factors……

    …long and short, if you want peace, aim for justice.


  33. To take Bushtea’s argument to it’s logical conclusion, then we should mimic Saudi Arabia. It’s all manmade law.

    To take your argument to its logical conclusion, we should chop off a hand if caught stealing, chop off a dick for rape, poke out an eye for looking at porn (porn illegal too), cut out a tongue for abusive language, stone a woman for adultery and beat little children into submission for being rude.


  34. Dear Mr Cadogan: Your comments are your perceptions, perceptions based on myths and half truths. It serves no purpose other than to reinforce your preconceptions of what it means to be black or white.


  35. Bushman
    Anon says it perfectly “It’s all manmade law”
    Who determines justice? It’s all manmade justice.

    And the biggest problem with manmade anything that goes beyond manmade errors, is manmade prejudice and manmade abuse of power.

    I would love to hear the Rt Exec. Georgie (first do no harm) Porgy weighing in on this.


  36. I apologize if it seemed I was inferring that Barbados was less than civilised. It is the barbaric relic of capital punishment which is uncivilised, and many countries and USA states still retain it, as has now been pointed out.

    Of course, the other social ills mentioned above are also uncivilised, and I did say *ultimately* a civilised society will abolish capital punishment; as well these other ills.


  37. @BAFBFP

    Therein lies the problem. You think that this is some ‘man made law’. If it was, then I would not be arguing with you – not even with Carson….

    In fact, this is one of those irrevocable spiritual truths…. somewhat like the one which says that you ‘will reap what you sow’.

    I really do not feel the need to try to change opinions here, but if anonymous wants to ‘take my argument to its logical conclusion’ why not speculate what the RESULTS would be if we demonstrated that we were serious about the rules of society…

    When I was a teenager, I went through the stage where I felt the need to challenge my father’s right to set the rules in my house. The immediate ‘cut-ass’ that I got left no doubt in my mind how the organisational structure at home was set up.

    …had he ‘banned me from TV for a couple days’ or ‘scolded me’, he would have been dethroned within months…. but then again my old man was a REAL man.


  38. So let’s follow bush tea’s logic.

    Bush tea’s father beat him so logically all fathers should beat.

    That form of punishment worked for bush tea, so logically it will work for all and sundry.

    If bush tea was given an alternative punishment like being banned from tv he would have rebelled and overthrown his father, ergo, all teenagers who are given similar punishments will overthrow their parents.

    Very sound logic.


  39. Mostly we agree with Bush tea’s position and this time is no exception. To Anonymous we say some things must be done for the public good. When the judicial process is exhausted the society should accept that the result is correct, the fact that a minority of decisions are sometimes shown to be wrong MUST not remove from the public good of having rules and laws which demonstrate societal standards.

    Why is it that we create armies to protect our borders and civil liberties at large with the knowledge people will die in the name of being patriotic, however we are reluctant to do the same in the name of deleting humans, a minority who will cause society untold harm.

    Humans form governments and fallibilism therefore is present. After we rant with our dogma induced positions we have to settle that we don’t live in a perfect world and we have to do our best to ensure that the integrity of our communities are protected using our best judgement.


  40. ….. Capital punishment was NEVER intended as ‘retribution’ or as a deterrent to murder. It is a basic ground rule that sets the standard of the value of life in the society………..

    Why so many people seem to miss this point…really?


  41. Well David, you do know that there are some of us who do not believe in having soldiers to protect us either…. since it may involve killing or being killed. They feel that we could find alternative means of defending ourselves – like conferences and meetings….or non-violent protests…

    This is all very well- except for the REALITY that there are some wicked persons out there who could, and WOULD, destroy all that we stand for, while we delve in our sissy emotional fancies.

    …so again we have another ground rule which says ‘we hold our society and way of life so dearly, that we are prepared to die to defend it’. Not that we like war and killing… but that we SO respect and love our society…..

    This is why it takes MEN to provide good leadership.
    There is a sissy way that sounds good, and seems right, but the end thereof is the way of death….


  42. @Anonymous
    No disrespect, but I find it very hard to debate with you because quite frankly, I fail to understand what you are trying to say.

    I never said that because my father disciplined me in a particular way that everyone must be disciplined in that way…… or even that that was his regular way of discipline.

    The only deduction you can logically draw from my example is that had that OPTION not been open my my father- in my particular case- he could well have ended up with a messed up family.

    Every one of his seven children are model citizens with model families- (even the Bush man, LOL,) and he probably used corporal punishment no more than 6 times total. However we hardly ever had any doubts about his willingness to bring it on….

    His only inconsistency was that, in the case of his daughters, the threat of corporal (and even capital) punishment was towards anyone who would dare mess with them…


  43. The Scout touched on the issue of time being allowed to expire which results in convicts escaping the noose. We suspect he is referring to Pratt and Morgan ruling.

    To the legal eagles on BU is it a reasonable argument to say that the judicial system is currently being manipulated?


  44. Bushman,
    Then who determines who should be slapped around the head and who should be refused TV privileges for the same offence.

    Let’s leap ahead here and ask who judges the judges, who polices the police, who acts as oversight for the fair play committees and boards?

    Sorry Bushman, I can’t argue spirituality with you. This part of the world is too imperfect to bring that level of appreciation into the campaign.

    Judges are chosen by Presidents and Prime Ministers who themselves are chosen by simple first past the post majorities. The same “leaders” decide that there is need for an army and that army should be paid for by tax payers to be sent into battle. But in defence of whom or whose interests?

    David, change sides while you still can.


  45. @BAFBFP
    What change what side what?!?
    Leave David alone for me please – he safe…

    Those are excellent questions BAFBFP -and you are coming to the really critical issues.
    i.e. not whether or not we should have limits on social behaviour, but who and how these should be judged and applied.

    I take it that you are agreeing with David and I that we cannot solve the problem by removing (or making useless) the rules of society.

    IMHO, we are all responsible for doing our personal best to give justice at whatever level we operate. In short, it is just as critical that a clerk in a little shop is upright, honest and just in his or her doings as it is for a high court judge.
    Granted the consequence of injustice in these examples are very different. (but so are the levels of responsibility, the privileges and the rewards.)

    But to make a long story short, LEADERS must be held responsible for those under their charge dispensing JUSTICE fairly and to the best of their ability.

    The supervisor, the Manager and ultimately the top honcho takes on this duty….
    This is why the role of leadership is critical. If there is no justice there will be no peace….. and where there is no vision, the people will suffer….

    …that is why DT should chastise and FIRE any minister guilty of bribery, fraud or such illegal activities…


  46. @ David and Bushtea
    “Humans form governments and fallibilism therefore is present. After we rant with our dogma induced positions we have to settle that we don’t live in a perfect world and we have to do our best to ensure that the integrity of our communities are protected using our best judgement.”

    *************************************

    I couldnt let dis one pass!

    Are you saying that ranting and raving about a dogma induced position that supports capital punishment is better than ranting and raving about another dogma induced position that does not support it? (smile)

    The debate always has to return to the philosophical question about the “right to life.” (Damn, I cant believe that I agreeing with Yardbroom on anything!)

    Anyways, if we accept that life is precious and respect its sanctity, then we will not and cannot support morally or philosophically the following:
    abortion; any form of capital punishment; euthanasia; murder or any act that takes away life from a fellow human being.

    Herein lies the philosophical paradox. Liberals will support abortion and advocate against capital punishment!

    We must be consistent in our philosophical positions. When the state commits capital punishment on our behalf, we’re all partaking in murder, either by the complicity of our silence or by our verbal support for popping someone’s neck.

    I dont wanna tek up too much space but just to let bushtea know it’s not grammatically correct to say “I take it that you are agreeing with David and I.”

    I could leh dah one pass either. Maybe his father should have cut his ass to study grammar. After the preposition you have to say “with me” not “with I.” The old technique they taught us was to substitute and see if um correct.
    “David and I” = 1st person plural = we”


  47. Presidents Manuel Noriega and Sadam Hussein were brought to justice by “MEN dispensing justice fairly and to the best of their ability”. Both went before a jury (now the question what really is a peer/) One was put in jail and the other cast to his enemies and reportedly hanged. Justice Bushman, for whom? You kill my child as Man I should reserve the right to act on my sentiment that the very society that “sets the limits to social behaviour” has failed me, me, one of its members.. Hanging the perpetrator would not in anyway respond to my grievance. I would want real heads to roll. Do you feel me my friend?


  48. Anonymous
    I am a PROGRESSIVE not a Liberal. That term is now dead. Leave it there


  49. I am not sure what you mean by manipulation of the judicial system, David. The burden is on the state to expedite the process…it would seem that St Kitts did it in 2 years in this case, although I don’t understand how the right to life could depend on the late filing of a document.


  50. @Anoymous
    I am sitting here quietly…and you throwing licks at me!

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