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Submitted by Yardbroom

Some months ago Jessie Jackson in reference to Barrack Obama said: “I wanna cut his nuts off” and he – Barrack Obama – “was talking down to black people.”  To be fair, Jackson later apologized, and said his remarks were made, when he thought he was off air and in a “private discussion.”  What caused such an outburst?  What heinous crime did Obama commit?

“As someone who grew up without a father in the home, Senator Obama has spoken and written for many years about issues of parental responsibilities, with the importance of fathers participating in their children’s lives.”  Was Obama’s critque of “some” black fathers justified?

I am sure he was not suggesting that “all” black fathers do not take their parental responsibilities seriously.  Neither could it be true that black single mothers have not, despite almost unsurmountable obstacles, brought up children to be outstanding citizens.
I believe he was making the point, that a large percentage of black single mothers have to shoulder parental responsibilities alone.  Whilst their male companions move on with a freedom which cannot be condoned.  Although Obama was brought up by his grandparents, he spoke with the experience of someone who did not have the benefit of a father in the important early years.  He cannot be condemned for speaking from personal experience.

Is there any substance in his statement?  Few people can argue it is not best to have a mother and father -couple – in a stable relationship looking after their children.  Relationships do break down, but the children from that relationship are still there.  They have done no wrong and surely it is part of being mature and adult to take care of your responsibilities.

It is a difficult subject but difficult subjects must be confronted, if we as a people – black people – are to improve our chances of success in a competitive world.  Unless we are able to confront these issues head on, each generation will constantly be reinventing the wheel, always starting from scratch.

I do no more than open an avenue for debate on a difficult issue.  We cannot pretend that it is not an issue of importance which has impacted on many black lives.  We can of course ignore it and say others are imposing their “value systems” on us.  However, we inhabit the same living space as others, it is those who are most able to utilize that space to their advantage who will be successful.

We must give “our” children the financial and emotional support to make them wanted citizens in our society.  To deny them an opportunity/opportunities because of parental neglet is a tragedy we should be uncomfortable living with.


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58 responses to “Black Fathers And "Their" Children”


  1. Yes it was justified in the context of the life of the black child in America, where the statement was focus. The statistics of single family parenting in the African American community is appalling.


  2. Why look at parenting and the black man, or should I say, why are you constantly directing your venom at Obama, if you are for McCain we have no problem, but why go into the garbage to come with a stupid story with Obama written all over it. Why you don’t deal with Palin’s daughter and her hostile partner. But again, you are all for McCain paling as though you are a Paling cock. opps ah mean Palin.


  3. We bash ourselves too much. It takes two, so anytime the child suffers both parents must take the blame, not just the father.

    Too many fathers are making the effort today for us to keep on that track of blaming fathers. I know a person who was charged a delinquent father to his first child, yet he takes care of his second child from another woman. The problem really is that he and the mother of his first child could not get along and she was insistent that the father would not see the child because he would not pay. He on the other hand was doing what he considered his best and after a while gave up the battle.

    His second child, however, lives with him because he has the extended family support which the mother don’t have when she goes to work. While the two of them were not together after some time, they looked after their child. So what happened with the first one?

    The mother of his first child has two more children from her husband whom she subsequently married. Now she is going through a divorce and has the same problem with her husband that she had with her first child-father. So she now has three children on her hands, all growing up without fathers.

    One has to wonder if it would not be better for a child to be removed to neutral ground where both the mother and father could visit independently, where they are both contributing and where the child would hardly hear from any of them how worthless the other is because none of them would know how much the other is contributing.

    Not something I would subscribe to though but just some thoughts on the problem.


  4. @ Yardbroom

    What is it that you are really saying?

    One gets the impression that you are just trying to get a debate going.

    However, you have overlooked deep-rooted behaviors that affect black men as a result of an experience of slavery.

    Imagine growing up in a village in the 1800s with one man having 20 or 30 children from different women.

    To many this was ‘normal’ behavior and this was passed down from generation to generation.

    So unless we have other reference points of behavior and we are not forced to question it, then it becomes us.

    A lot of damage was done. The paint is still wet my friend.


  5. “A man Stands Tallest when he stoops to help a child.”
    ~Chinese proverb

    We are inclined to insert boy for child in the context of prevailing conditions.


  6. However, you have overlooked deep-rooted behaviors that affect black men as a result of an experience of slavery.

    Imagine growing up in a village in the 1800s with one man having 20 or 30 children from different women.
    ——————————————-

    Cant imagine it- sounds more like Africa with the chief having many wifes.
    Can you expound?


  7. These afro-centrists talk so much BS! Please google the Reed Dance of Swaziland or King Mswati III for progressive African gender relations and a model of democratic governance.


  8. @ ru4real

    The situation is not a simplistic as the opinion piece above would have us believe.

    Millions of able bodied men and women were extracted out of Africa to supply the labor needs across the Atlantic.

    Now, they took those in their teens up to early 30s. So what was left behind, those who were too young or too old. There werent enough in the middle to build the societies. So a lot of what we are seeing today is a result of that early collapse.

    As it became increasingly difficult to source slaves from the continent, the process of creolization began where slaves were bred and raised in the West Indies.

    The Black male therefore was used as a ‘stud animal’ in this experiment to produce more slaves. Very often women had their children taken away from them and sent to other plantations or even to the Carolinas in the USA.

    Hence there was a psychological detachment as this was a ‘norm’.

    Polygamy as practised in many Affican cultures is very different to this experiment where the creolized African was use for the production of slaves.
    These women certainly were not his wives and there was little emotional and psychological attachment.

    So to those around him, this behavior was seen as ‘normal’.

    Unfortunately, these ‘values’ (if we can call them such) pass from generation to generation.

    Hence we speak very ‘normally’ about “my chile mother” or “my chile father”. In the USA it’s the “baby daddy” or the “baby mama”.

    This is not a coincidence.


  9. My Black Great Grand Father (who worked as a agricultural labourer at Drax Hall) was married and

    – raised my Black Grand Father (who was a joiner) who also was married and

    – in turn raised my Black Father (who worked as a bookkeeper) and who was also married and

    – raised me, a Black man who also married and is raising his two children.

    Nearly 115 years of Black working class men marrying and raising their children. Imagine dat, we did white people all along.


  10. This is so predictable. It was only a matter of time before someone came on and tried to prove that they’re an exception and try to distance themselves from the slave experience.

    Maybe the next thing you will tell us is that your black great great great grandfather came over in the first class cabin on the ship and was from African royalty.

    Shupes.

    Get used to the fact that we are sons and daughters of slaves and a lot of what and who we are today, is a direct result of this legacy.


  11. I am black, but from South America, and in my family it is the norm to marry, have children and for the father to stay with the family, now my family are/were Anglicans, and it could be we were imitating our British rulers, I don’t know, but I think in the context of the US the absent black father has to do with racism, denied opportunity, segregation, and migration. After slavery ended black men had to leave the South and their families behind to seek opportunities in the big cities up North. We had to be strong in order to survive every hardship and every battle that came our way, so because of these struggles the structure of the black family was placed on the back burner. I hope you see what I am saying, we were so busy fighting for rights that we forgot that we had to be parents to our children. It is a battle and I have experienced racism first hand in the US, subtle racism, and it has had an effect on me, but I just think of the US money and the things that it does for me and my family in South America


  12. My expereince is the Guyana one, so I might be way off, for I never epxperienced racism,until I left Guyana. I wake up in Guyana and I never thought of what race I am until I arrived in the US. And I am sure Barbadians have a different experience as your country has more whites than ours, our problem is with East Indians,


  13. In 1960 about 67 % of Black American children lived in two parent households. Today under 33% are living in two parent households (view http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9599&page=77) . It is since the 1960’s that we notice not only the rise in the proportion of single parent households (both for Blacks and Whites in the US) but an increase in other social pathologies (school drop out rates etc).

    see The Spread of Single-Parent Families in the United States since 1960. view at :
    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=517662


  14. Whitey

    That I believe is a secret to success.

    The earlier the generation is that adapts to the monogomous relationship the more “financially” successful and stable is the family in this generation.

    … not always true however!!

    One generation learns from the previous two by observation and expectation.

    Two generations pass on an inheritance to one generation.

    You have listed four generations. That is back to about 1850, just after slavery.

    Each generation would have experienced the guidance of two parents and up to four grandparents.

    I think monogomous relationships were also present in the slave population before the 1850’s and were probably the norm.

    Perhaps the couple did not live in the same place, or even have the same owner.

    Most of the relationships were not solemnised in the Church but the two people knew they were married!!

    Even with those that are solemnised, the possibility of being unfaithful exists. We are after all, human.


  15. Anonymous

    I am going to risk censure with this comment.

    Try to count the number of men who you know that claim to have 20-30 children. There are not many. There are however a few, the exception, not the rule.

    I knew of a well digger who proudly proclaimed “the women call my name for 23 children”.

    He never specified the number of women he had relations with, just the number of children he produced.

    I heard of a man who also had 23 children from two sisters who lived side by side!!

    … and then I heard of one man whose 99th child it is alleged was born the day he died.

    I believe that man produced a GG.

    I have heard of a few others but I don’t think there are many.

    I think most men who do father that large a number of children from many different women are in many cases men who have the welfare of their children at heart and take their responsibilities to those children seriously.

    More importantly, they have the resources to cater for their children and their partner and that, although not all, is primarily what makes them attractive to the women who have relationships with and children from them.

    Remember, women can and do say no. They have the final say.

    … remember also in the past that it was not uncommon for many women to have 10 and more children.

    So when you speak of 20-30 children the man may have had relationships with two women and is not the “village ram” he is made out to be, …. he and his partner(s) just never heard of contraception.

    They also may not be models of fidelity, but strong relationships can and do exist.


  16. @ Whitey

    For the record. Is your pristine record of marriage for three or four generations shared by all members of your family?

    Any unmarried brothers and sisters, cousins or aunts, uncles or great uncles?

    I DONT THINK SO. Every single family in Barbados is tainted by this reality.

    Get used to it!

    Neither you nor I came over here on a first class cabin. Look in the mirror and accept this reality and let your children know that this is where we came from.

    Teach them to be proud of this fact, that we are the descendents of those who survived. Those who didnt jump over board or who werent thrown overboard.

    We are descendents of those who experienced one of history’s most heinous crimes.

    The wounds are still very deep. Though slavery ended on the statute books in 1834, it’d take another 100 years before real change. 1937 was yesterday.

    I’m sure your grandparents told you the tale of 1937.

    Wake up from your slumber!


  17. Anonymous it is you that is so predictable. My point is not that slavery did not leave its mark but that Black people have been much more resiliant and proactive than many give them credit for and that many of the negative sociological trends we notice today are of more recent vintage. In fact, Whites are experiencing many of the same negative trends. The point being that there are forces at work affecting all people but Blacks are probably more affected given their experiences and history in the “New World”. Your simple minded analysis neglects the effects of the availabilty of birth control, the availability/acceptability of divorce, the rise of feminism, the changing economy (i.e the development of the knowledge economy as opposed to the industrial economy ), the rural to urban shift, poverty and institutional racism, unequal educational opportunities etc. In other words you fail to acknowledge those many forces OUTSIDE of the Black community that conspire to retard our progress. I find your implied view that Blacks are pathologically irresponsible because we learnt to be so on the plantation is not only insulting but condemns us to a powerless victimhood status for ever.

    I don’t know if any of my ancestors were African royalty but I do know that there were some enslaved Africans who were.


  18. “I find your implied view that Blacks are pathologically irresponsible because we learnt to be so on the plantation is not only insulting but condemns us to a powerless victimhood status for ever.”
    *************************************
    Oh dear.

    These are your words not mine.

    If you follow my line of thought, it can be implied that those black men (brothers) who practise having multiple partners and children from them do not see their behavior as being irresponsible.

    Very often they see absolutely nothing wrong with this behavior and believe it to be quite ‘normal’.

    The fact that this behavior is very prevalent in our communities is the starting point of the observation made my Yardbroom.

    What I attempted to show, in a very limited space, was that this ‘behavior’ is much more deep rooted.

    We’re not discussing the number of children (so the point on contraception is irrelevant). We’re discussing having multiple children from multiple partners and in so doing depriving many of those children from having a mother and father present in the same home.

    And again. If your family is not tainted by this reality, then I call you a blatant liar.

    It is real and it is rooted in the experience of slavery. FACT.


  19. Unfortunately there is a post by me in moderation which gives the URL of a paper titled “The spread of single parent families since 1960”. The work of Orlando Patterson which attributes some of the problems to the experience of slavery is mentioned.

    That I am descended from slaves is not in question. What is rejected is the notion that our people could not analyse their situation, did not resist their condition (either overtly or subversively), did not develop strategies to promote their survival, did not act in solidarity with each other and were so brainwashed by the experience of slavery that they could not act in support of ancestral notions of kinship and community for 170 years thereafter.

    That the Black family in the New World is experiencing problems today is not a result of a deficient value system of individual Blacks (acquired during slavery and passed from generation to generation!) but is more do with the institutional racism and the inherent inequities of a society with many social and economic structures of the past still intact and functioning. Bill Cosby’s position that puts the locus of blame on Black people and not on the wider society is too coarse a position.


  20. It is late and I am tired but before I go I do acknowledge that there have some members of the family whose behaviour was not the “best”. However, they were the exception and not the norm. Their behaviour was not held up as an acceptable model and was deprecated. The ideal that was striven for was the nuclear family model or at least the upholding of ones responsibilty to children, that is not to say that variations on the theme were never made. Life happens!


  21. The falling apart of the family appears to be a world wide event, perhaps moreso among Blacks. Unfortunately in the Caribbean we don’t often speak based on research but in the USA many studies have been done. Whitey has given some information. It is no secret that BU has focused on many issues which are driven by family and morality. A special commission set-up in the 1990s in USA to examine teenagers generated a report called Code Blue.

    @ 70% of black babies and 19% of White babies in the USA are born out of wedlock

    @ 34% of all children will live with both biological parents until 18

    @ 62% of mothers with children under three are employed (the number was half that in 1975)

    @ 72% of mothers with children under 18 hold jobs (the busyness of mothers combine with the non-involvement of fathers means that no parents are at home.

    The role of a father cannot be underscored. The boy watches his father and models his behaviour from a very early age. A woman CANNOT replace a father in this role. While some mothers would have had to raise children on their own and would have done a good job, with a good father present the sky could have been the limit for the boy. We truly believe that part of the problem with the breakdown in family is the absentee fathers. While village life countered/mitigated some of these issues in earlier years the problem is fully exposed now with that support gone.
     


  22. While being in the home is ideal, a man does not have to be, to be a father to his children. Some “fathers” are at home and are not fathers. The important thing is being an important part of the child’s life whether or not you live in the home with the child.
    Most absentee fathers love their children.


  23. The IADB study by Mayra Buvinic also show that over 60% of women bearing children in Barbados are “unpartnered” (meaning unwed) at the first birth.
    Again, a weakness in this research is the imposition of a Western bias and construct as to what constitutes marriage.
    For we know that in Barbados many couples may “shack up” for years without a formal marriage – hence the common law marriage.

    Nonetheless, the figure is still too high.


  24. Boys and men are in crisis but yet some of us continue to deny it? Back in the old days we had village life which compensated for the lack of many fathers in the household. We had Granddad or Uncle, a cousin who all chipped in. Nowadays we have no support and now it is couple with a school system of 80% females.


  25. Anonymous // September 28, 2008 at 12:32 am

    @ Whitey

    Any unmarried brothers and sisters, cousins or aunts, uncles or great uncles?

    I DONT THINK SO. Every single family in Barbados is tainted by this reality.

    Get used to it!
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    … in fact every single family in the world has this as part of its history.

    It is not a taint, it is a fact.

    There wasn’t always marriage.

    What is also a fact in most cases is that there are two generations looking out for the child in the next generation.

    Just because a relationship is not solemnised in the Church does not remove this simple fact.

    Six adult people from those two generations before the child have friends and it is through those six and their friends that the child’s welfare is promoted.

    This is true whether the child is a product of a marriage or not.

    It is not only the father and the mother that raise a child.

    … as is often said it takes a village to raise a child ….. and that is why a child born out of wedlock can turn out to be a well adjusted adult …… just as a child born into a happy marriage where the father is always present and contributes his “share” to the upbringing of his child.

    The problem a child born out of wedlock can face is that there may be too many of those six people and their friends who may opt out of its upbringing.

    Two parents may distance themselves from their single parent daughter because they feel she has let them down, …… or the father of the child is just no good and won’t contribute his fair share to the child’s upbringing …… and/or his parents don’t even know they have a grandchild.

    I think in the past that a blood relationship was usually acknowledged and honoured whereas today ignorance of who we are keeps us apart.

    That is not to say that it was noised abroad that a child was born out of wedlock just that the child’s welfare was watched over not only by the mother but also by other adults related by blood.

    In the past if a boy and a girl were seen together and then suddenly the girl became pregnant, everybody knew what was what. No rocket science was required.

    Some may call that nosey, I call it caring.

    Today we mind our own business and don’t care about the next human so our village disintegrates.

    … so it isn’t only the father that is to blame although in many cases he may very well be!!


  26. Anonymous // September 28, 2008 at 10:46 am

    The IADB study by Mayra Buvinic also show that over 60% of women bearing children in Barbados are “unpartnered” (meaning unwed) at the first birth.
    Again, a weakness in this research is the imposition of a Western bias and construct as to what constitutes marriage.
    For we know that in Barbados many couples may “shack up” for years without a formal marriage – hence the common law marriage.

    Nonetheless, the figure is still too high.
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Back in 1980 when I was at university, a friend from India who used to read extensively about other countries asked me how it was possible that 70% of children in Barbados were “illegitimate”.

    He had come across this stated as a fact in a book he was reading about Barbados.

    I could not answer him as I did not know if it was true or false but I now believe it to be true.

    If indeed it was true, your study indicates that things have “improved”!!

    … in fact the word “illegitimate” has been banned in law so we now only have legitimate children in Barbados.


  27. @ Anonymous

    Where is the research to prove that most absentee fathers love their children?

    Just curious as to where you got that from.


  28. Has UWI published any research on this matter?

    If so can somebody post in here.

    My informal impression is that the rate of absentee fathers/single mothers increased in the period 1960 to 1980; because the pill made casual sex “safe” and “inconsequential”; good quality antibiotics took care of the veneral diseases of that era; and HIV was an unknown.

    1960 to 1980 being the period after the pill; but before HIV.

    My informal impression is that the rate of marriage both formal and de facto has increased since 1980 and into the present; because most people are sensible enough to realize that multiple sexual partners can be dangerous and DEADLY.

    I was born and raised (in the 1950’s) in the most ordinary rural working class Barbadian village and now that I look back all of the couples with children in my gap and generally most in the village were married. Some may had had a child or two before marriage, but most often eventually married the parent of the first child; or secondly the parent of the second and subsequent children. So yes I think that marriage was highly valued and was in fact the “norm” that is most adults of child bearing age married at or about the time the first child was born and certainly by the time the second child was born.

    I don’t believe that the high rate of absentee father households in Barbados post 1960 can be considered a legacy of slavery. In fact my informal observation is that men who came to adulthood in the period 1960 to 1989, that is Barbadian men who were born between 1942 – 1962 were less likely to marry, and to STAY MARRIED (to the mother of their first or second child) that their fathers. And yet these men are further removed from slavery AND far better educated/have higher incomes/steadier work that their fathers.

    I believe that the apparent low rate of marriage/late marriage/frequent divorce is a sociological blip and that this society is now correcting itself. I believe that the correction is being driven by HIV.

    I believe that most Barbadians have long held the value that a sound marriage is the best place in which to raise children.

    I believe that the overwhelming majority of Barbadians aspire to and try hard to practice this norm.


  29. Dr. Christine Barrow is the leading researcher in this area Miss J.


  30. @

    Anonymous // September 28, 2008 at 11:42 am

    @ Anonymous

    Where is the research to prove that most absentee fathers love their children?

    Just curious as to where you got that from.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    It would be difficult, more likely impossible, to find research supportying my statement. Probably because the reasons fathers seperate from the mothers of their children and the effect it has on the father is not considered worthy of research.
    This however does not prevent me from believing that “most” absentee fathers love their children. Some of these men subsequently become involve with other women who have chidren of their own and form a lasting realtionship sometimes culminating in marriage.
    Am I therefore to believe that these same men, do not love their biological children but are prepared to love and support another man’s children, just because they are in love?
    I live in Barbados and I know that men love they children but because of the child’s mother it is sometimes difficult to offer anything other than financial support to that child. Some mothers in Barbados use a man’s love for his child as a weapon or tool against him depending on the particular cicumstances at the time.
    As an absentee father myself I know.


  31. I think what happened during slavery we will never know for sure, whatever research we do.

    Here is an attempt to explain the absentee father in terms of what may have happened during slavery and to remove the myth that all relationships between slaves were not monogamous.

    Slaves were owned and treated as property.

    They lived with their owner on their owner’s land. They, like their owner, lived off their owner’s land. There was no NIS!!

    Also, it was in everybody’s interest for slaves to procreate, the owner, the male slave and the female slave.

    If the owner restricted the movement of his/her slaves to his/her land only discontent and inbreeding would occur.

    So I think that the movement of slaves was not restricted apart from when they were required to work.

    During that time they worked on their owners land, but in their “free time” a man and a woman would get together somewhere between where the man lived and the woman lived.

    The woman would produce a child who lived with her and like her belonged to her owner, the man would continue working and living separate on his owner’s land.

    In this way I think, slavery created absentee fathers but it did not necessarily mean that a monogomous relationship did not exist between the father and the mother …. or that the father did not love, see or care for his child.

    Even immediately after slavery, freedom of movement may not have removed the separation of the man from the woman and their child.

    It may have depended on where they worked for their living.

    Marriage is a sacrament in the Church which members of the Church receive and for which a Certificate is given.

    Not all ex slaves after emancipation would have belonged to the Anglican Church.

    The man/woman relationship system worked in the simple society that was, but as our society has evolved and people have become more and more uncaring towards each other, that same system provides the society with the means of destroying itself.

    Rather than attach blame to our past about which we can do nothing, we should look at our value system, decide what it is we want and take responsibility for getting it, …. or not getting it.

    It doesn’t help us if we want to promote family life to have leaders who practice something completely different …… but it certainly doesn’t stop us from going after what we want.


  32. @ John

    “all relationships between slaves were not monogamous.”
    ************************************

    I dont think anyone in their right mind would argue “all”.


  33. Thanks Anon.


  34. Gentlemen, I greet you here on the bank of the James River in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and twelve. First, I shall thank you, the gentlemen of the Colony of Virginia, for bringing me here. I am here to help you solve some of your problems with slaves. Your invitation reached me on my modest plantation in the West Indies where I have experimented with some of the newest and still the oldest methods of control of slaves.

    Ancient Rome would envy us if my program were implemented. As our boat sailed south on the James River, named for our illustrious King, whose version of the Bible we cherish. I saw enough to know that your problem is not unique. While Rome used cords of woods as crosses for standing human bodies along its highways in great numbers you are here using the tree and the rope on occasion.

    I caught the whiff of a dead slave hanging from a tree a couple of miles back. You are not only losing a valuable stock by hangings, you are having uprisings, slaves are running away, your crops are sometimes left in the fields too long for maximum profit, you suffer occasional fires, your animals are killed.

    Gentlemen, you know what your problems are: I do not need to elaborate. I am not here to enumerate your problems, I am here to introduce you to a method of solving them. In my bag here, I have a fool proof method for controlling your Black slaves. I guarantee everyone of you that if installed correctly it will control the slaves for at least 300 hundred years. My method is simple. Any member of your family or your oversee r can use it.

    I have outlined a number of differences among the slaves: and I take these differences and make them bigger. I use fear, distrust, and envy for control purposes. These methods have worked on my modest plantation in the West Indies and it will work throughout the South. Take this simple little list of differences, and think about them.

    On top of my list is “Age”, but it is there only because it starts with an “A”: the second is “Color” or shade, there is intelligence, size, sex, size of plantations, status on plantation, attitude of owners, whether the slave live in the valley, on hill, East, West, North, South, have fine hair, coarse hair, or is tall or short. Now that you have a list of differences. I shall give you an outline of action-but before
    that I shall assure you that distrust is stronger than trust and envy is stronger than adulation, respect, or admiration.

    The Black slave after receiving this indoctrination shall carry on and will become self re-fueling and self generating for hundreds of years, maybe thousands. Don’t forget you must pitch the old Black male vs. the young Black male, and the young Black male against the old Black male. You must use the dark skin slaves vs. the light skin slaves and the light skin slaves vs. the dark skin slaves. You must use the female vs. the male, and the male vs. the female. You must also have your white servants and overseers distrust all Blacks, but it is necessary that your slaves trust and depend on us. They must love, respect and trust only us.

    Dr. Freeman’s
    Latest Book

    Gentlemen, these kits are your keys to control. Use them. Have your wives and children use them, never miss an opportunity. If used intensely for one year, the slaves themselves will remain perpetually distrustful. Thank you, gentlemen.”

    ————————————————–

    This is why Black men and women have problems with their identities!

    PLEASE READ.

    I took this article and photocopied many of them and distributed it to everyone on the block! Man they were surprised and yes ashamed!

    I dont know how instrumental it was but I hope and pray that at least one man (hopefully more understand theeir role as a man but most of all a FATHER!


  35. @JC et al… If I May…

    Several years ago I found your immediate above quoted language framed on my best friend’s office wall. (For the record — he’s black; I’m white (as I have not hidden here on the Blogs). I have to admit, I broke down and cried…)

    As I’m sure is obvious, the above language is nothing but Machiavelli’s “The Prince”, reframed.

    To explain why I broke down: it was for three reasons…

    First, I am forever appalled at how horribly we humans can act.

    Secondly, I am forever appalled at how those who are manipulated continue to allow themselves to be, rather than seeing through it, and focusing their actions and attention on the root causes.

    Thirdly, a thoughtful “white person” always carries a burden of guilt over what has happened in the past, even if they personally, and their direct ancestors, were not directly involved in the wronging.

    Today, most humans have bought into the “fear, uncertainty and doubt” which we are continuously inundated with by “modern media”. Thusly, rather than think, we stab each other in the back to get ahead, and consume without consideration or concern.

    IMHO, this does not scale. IMHO, we *all* must get past this…

    (For what the above is worth…)

    (Apologies for anything anyone might take offence to.)


  36. @ Chris:

    The problem with the emotive argument put forward, about the white man carrying the blame of his foreparents wrongs, is that it quickly loses its logic.

    Hear this. Europe, the USA and even whites in the Caribbean are where they are today because of the economic advantage they enjoyed from 400 years of slavery (free labor).

    Now you cant tell me that it’s okay to enjoy these benefits today, but you cannot see the need to be responsible (or guilty) for how that prosperity came about.

    This is the problem with your line or argument. You share the spoils but not the guilt. Yet, the black race, by the same token, has been set back by centuries because of the same experience.

    Until we start to honestly speak of reparations and ‘righting the wrongs’ that were done in the past, we’re not going to solve the tension and mistrust among the races.

    Either that or some external alien force that threatens the existence of mankind will bring us together.


  37. @Anonymous…

    My apologies for daring to share my personal (if emotive) experience. If I May… I’m what’s known as a “modern, sensitive, man.” Willing and comfortable to show emotions.

    With all due respect, your argument immediately above is itself logically inconstant.

    If you would like to repost your above under your own name, or at least a handle which is already known here on BU, I would be happy to reply.

    Failing this, if any other BU Family member would like to debate me on my above, again, I’d be happy to reply.

    But, IMHO, “Anonymous” is nothing — by definition…


  38. @ Chris:

    The problem with the emotive argument put forward, about the white man carrying the blame of his foreparents wrongs, is that it quickly loses its logic.

    Hear this. Europe, the USA and even whites in the Caribbean are where they are today because of the economic advantage they enjoyed from 400 years of slavery (free labor).

    Now you cant tell me that it’s okay to enjoy these benefits today, but you cannot see the need to be responsible (or guilty) for how that prosperity came about.

    This is the problem with your line or argument. You share the spoils but not the guilt. Yet, the black race, by the same token, has been set back by centuries because of the same experience.

    Until we start to honestly speak of reparations and ‘righting the wrongs’ that were done in the past, we’re not going to solve the tension and mistrust among the races.

    Either that or some external alien force that threatens the existence of mankind will bring us together.


  39. @John Doe AKA “Anonymous”…

    I have to admit, your above is *hugely* amusing… LOL…

    OK — based on the humour you’ve brought forward, I will respond to you… Could you please explain to me et al why it would take such an “external alien force that threatens the existence of mankind” to magically “bring us together”.

    Specifically:

    1. Why would it take such an external force?

    1.1. If an external force could do it, why can we not find it without ourselves to do so without such external influences?

    2. Would “global warming” qualify?

    3. Would a “global financial crisis” qualify?

    For the record, I have more to bring forward, but will only do so for someone who’s “known” to the BU Family…

    (Kindest regards to all.)


  40. @All… Sigh… This is why I prefer to have an editor between me and the reader…

    My point 1.1 above: please replace “find it without ourselves” to be “find it within ourselves”.

    Or, in the “geek”: “s/it without/it within/”.


  41. Here is another version written about 60 years earlier in the 1650’s by Richard Ligon.

    It also addresses differences but its reasoning is different and it gives a possible explanation for the distrust.

    Ligon visited the island from 1647 to 1650, had this to say when he addressed “Reasons why the Negroes can plot no massacres upon their masters”.

    “It has been accounted a strange thing, that the Negroes, being more than double the numbers of Christians that are there, and they accounted a bloody people, where they think they have power or advantages;

    and the more bloody, by how much they are more fearful than others: that these should not commit some horrid massacre upon the Christians, thereby to enfranchise themselves, and become masters of the island.

    But there are three reasons that take away this wonder; the one is,

    They are not suffered to touch or handle any weapons:

    The other, That they are held in such awe and slavery as they are fearful to appear in any daring act;

    and seeing the mustering of our men, and hearing their Gun-shot, (than which nothing is more terrible to them) and their spirits are subjugated to so low a condition, as they dare not look to any bold attempt.

    Besides these, there is a third reason, which stops designs of that kind, and that is,

    They are fetched from several parts of Africa, who speak several languages, and by that means, one of them understands not another:

    For, some of them are fetched from Guinny and Binny, some from Cutchew, and some from Angola, and some from the River of Gambia.

    And in some of these places where petty Kingdoms are, they sell their Subjects, and such as they take in Battle, whom they make slaves;

    and some mean men sell their Servants, their Children, and sometimes their wives; and think all good traffic, for such commodities as our merchants send them.”


  42. @ Chris

    The warning signs of global warming were there for close to 40 years.

    And what do we do? We build bigger SUVs.

    Shupes


  43. @John… If I May…

    Your R. Ligon gives a (confused) anthropological explanation of the situation…

    JC’s Dr. Freeman and my et al’s Machiavelli gives a (scary) methodology.

    With respect, our latter explains contemporary behaviour. Your former does not.

    (For the record, while I studied Machiavelli from an early age, I hate and reject with prejudice what he codified.)


  44. @John Doe… I’m finding myself enjoying your presence…

    If I may counter your above: “And what do we do? We build bigger SUVs.”

    Some of us do. And what do the rest us do? Buy them… And then fill them up, every few days…

    Slurps…


  45. Dear David:

    I think that you should invite some women and children to be a part of this discussion. I get the distinct feeling that these are a bunch of guys taliking to or at each other.

    What do the women think?

    What do the children think?

    Even what did the men think when they were boys?

    I’d like to see other perspectives.


  46. @All… Please forgive me for this, but…

    It is reasonable to assume that everyone you ever meet / do business with / buy from / sell to / work for / works for you has read and internalized the following:

    http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm

    Contemporary meta knowledge is available at:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prince

    Just a thought — if this original language had been written in the last eighty or so years, you most likely would have had to pay to have access (probably as a badly acted Hollywood Film)…


  47. J

    You should start a blog for women and children. i notice you mention boys, what about the girls?

    I am sure that we can’t make the women and the children participate. I invite them all the time but they take a look and do a Usain.

    The women are not participating. They are not standing up to be counted. They are in crisis not men; and this blog proves it.

    Right J?


  48. Women usually have little to say if a father has a good relationship with his children, but is not part of the household.
    It is like pulling wisdom teeth for them to acknowledge that a man, who has left the relationship can still love the chlid he has left behind. Seldom do they admit to having contributed, at least a small part, to the breakdown of the relationship that producded the child. For them it is always the man’s fault. They would bad-mouth the man to the child and try everthing in their power, to prevent the child from forming a bond with their father. Worse yet if that man is involved with another woman who has children of her own, or goes and have another child.
    He becomes the worst thing on the face of the earth.


  49. Chris nothing that anyone has said onthe blog for against me has made me upset. (At leat not to kill lol) However I like to hear different arguments. Sometimes i have to consent and admit that I am wrong! (Not this time) I personally think that my BLACK MEN are lost! I will not apologise for my believes neither should you!

    Black men (not all) are LOST! Yardbroom and GP and Scout and many more can feel proud to say that they have channeled thier loved ones in the right direction. Nevertheless, most black men were not their that is a fact! History has proven it!

    I am sorry if I seem brainwashed or what ever you seem to think. I personally refuse to be not black, I personally refuse to be stupid to certain facts which are REAL!

    It might seem to you at times that I am not over certain things! ha ha perhaps you are right.

    There is a saying that time is the greatest healer! Although that saying might be true to some extent; I STILL beg to differ, how can I get over these horiffic things when persons remind me and my kind that we do not belong although we have given our swet and tears.

    CH I respect your opinions and sometimes look forward to our disagreements. However, I will NEVER get over it!

    Peace!


  50. @ Anon

    You are not telling any lies on some of us women.

    Another problem I have with us is that when we bring somebody new into our lives when they scold our children (especially our sons) we get on the defensive (Chris Halsall coming at ya again ha ha lol Willie Lynch TRAINED us well!) saying they are not the father and a whole heap of shit! When we should be glad they care enough to give an opinion!

    I am sorry sisters but it is the truth! Sometimes I think we get on the defensive and say stupid things such as “He aint you child so dont worry bout he and all types of sh!*7!

    We are something elase aint trut!

    However, Many baby daddies are STILL NEGLIGENT!

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