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Submitted by BWWR

Ontario Superior Court

As promised, I now am able to advise the BU family that yesterday in the costs motion brought against Nelson Barbados Group Limited in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice, it was ordered that Nelson pay its costs by 27 August 2008, failing which the action against the defendants bringing the motion (over 50 of them) will stand discharged.

Those defendants bringing the motion include: The Country of Barbados, Prime Minister Thompson, former Prime Minister Arthur, the Attorney-General, the Chief Justice, Peter Simmons, Kingsland Estates, Classic, Richard Cox – 58 of the 67 defendants.

I have certain sincere hopes here:

1. That if Nelson Barbados Group Limited does not pay the cost by 27 August, that in discharging the action against the 59 Barbados resident and other affiants who chose to be cross-examined in Barbados, the judge will order that the costs be paid by Mr. K. William “Goat” McKenzie PERSONALLY.

2. That the Law Society of Upper Canada will launch an investigation into the conduct of this case by the Goat and disbar him from the practice of law.

3. That the the Law Society of Upper Canada will, once its investigation is complete, file a complaint with the Barbados Bar Association against Alair Shepherd Q.C. and that this will lead to Her Majesty being advised to cancel his commission as Queens Council and the Barbados Bar to disbar or at least suspend him from the practice of law. This, for not having advised the Ontario Superior Court of Justice that Nelson Barbados Group Limited did not have the standing to bring its action, particularly as he was one of the counsel of record in the matter.

That conduct is simply INEXCUSABLE.

I think that Mr. Shepherd ought to go back to his country of origin – Guyana – where his notion of the practice of law will doubtless be highly praised. I understand that certain countries admire lawyers who are constantly in pursuit of ambulances. They interpret this as being “keen”. Most lawyers by their very nature are always going to be looking for the big fees and will, if the client will pay, bring actions of little merit. However, somewhere, someone HAS to draw the line SOMEWHERE.

When this whole action started, while Madge Knox was not being anonymous and hiding behind the name of Nelson Barbados Group Limited – in October 1998 – Madge was represented by Sir Henry Forde and Alair Shepherd, both Q.Cs. On the other side were the late Sir Harold St. John Q.C., Leslie Haynes Q.C., Clyde Turney Q.C. and Mr Vernon Smith (later Q.C.). This array of the best of Barbados’ legal talent was supported by the best of the younger crop. Adrain King (who is becoming a worthy successor to his father – or will as soon as he finds a different lead counsel) supported Sir Henry and Alair, Doria Moore supported Brie and Leslie, Zerina Khan supported Clyde and Lisa Greaves supported Vernon.

By the time the matter came to appeal, there was only ONE casting change. Sir Henry Forde had dropped out. When Henry was asked by a friend of mine WHY he had dropped out, he hemmed and hawed for a moment to give himself time to think and then said that his involvement was not needed by Madge Knox and that she didn’t need the expense of two Queens Council. However, within the legal world in Barbados, Henry’s colleagues – all of them – were intrpreting this otherwise. One of them summed up for me, “De Boulay knows he ain’t got no case. He don’t want Brie and Leslie and Vernon and specially not Clyde, to beat him up again. Of course, I don’t think he got any time for Peter Allard either.” It didn’t stop Alair from collecting $4.2 million which, by Madge Knox’s own admission, were her legal costs in the matter. See the decision of Goodridge J. posted on BU.

However that may be, as the BU family has discussed conflict of interest by lawyers exhaustively (and well) in the Hal Gollup case, Henry may well have reflected that he was leaving himself and his firm (Juris Chambers) open to an action from the estate of Colin Deane and its executor Ian Deane for conflict of interest. Because you see I have just seen some documents that I am told are filed in the public domain as court exhibits that clearly show that from 1983 until 1986 Henry and his chambers represented the estate of Colin Deane and its executor. Henry did right to withdraw from the matter. In fact, he ought never to have been involved at all – he ought to have declared a conflict of interest right from the start or got a waiver in writing from Colin’s estate and Ian.

And since during the time that Henry represented the estate of Colin Deane, Alair Shepherd was a member of Juris Chambers, neither should Alair have been involved then – OR NOW.

Conflict of Interest rules in Barbados are sketchy. However, it is almost certain that if called upon to decide upon conflict of interest matters, the Barbados courts will do as courts in other countries in the same boat have done and adopt the three world-recognized authorities: 1. The Canadian case of R. v Neil, the UK case of Marks and Spencers v Freshfields and the 2003 American Bar Association Model Rules on Conflict of Interest. To do otherwise would negatively impact on Barbados as a front-line country in the foreign investment field. I have just checked and I see that the cases and rules are available on the internet, with the cases being found either through google (or BFP’s favourite, cuil) or you ought to be able to find them on www.worldlii.org . Wordlii.org is free, but for those who subscribe to Westlaw, you will certainly find them there.

This whole thing started 10 years ago and has now, by my estimation, has cost in the region of $20 million. It is true that quite a bit of the expense has been due to the inordinate and inexcusable length of time that the Barbados judiciary has taken to un-reserve and deliver its decisions. Greenidge J. took a year and a half at first instance (at a cost in interest to Kingsland of an estimated $2 million), while Chase A.J. took 9 months to deliver the decision of the Court of Appeal on Madge Knox’s appeal from Greenidge J.’s decision – the period of human gestation and Chase A.J. have a lot in common as anyone who examines the time he took for his decisions generally will see. This delay by the Barbados judiciary in giving decisions and the justice denied thereby as well as the inordinate expense caused, contrast most unfavourably with the Privy Council, that took less than three months and now the Canadian courts, which have, to date, taken less than 6 weeks. If yesterday’s motion had been heard in Barbados, I can assure you that no judgment would yet be forthcoming. Yet the Canadian judge delivered it from the bench and, while I have not seen the written reasons, I (who don’t bet) will take a bet that there are no viable grounds for appeal in it.

The Barbados judges have a lot of arguments to support their sloath. But the truth is that there ARE no excuses. Every lawyer in Barbados is an officer of the Courts. Judges have the right to consult with any of those lawyers not involved in a case. For instance, both Greenidge J. and Chase A.J. had the right to consult (when he was alive) the late Freddie Clarke, the acknowledged leading expert in Barbados on company law. It is not a question of some poor little judge sitting there struggling through mounds of documents and law books. The problem in my view has been laziness and arrogance. Denys did his best to reverse this trend and, for all his faults and nepotism, our present CJ has done an exemplary job in addressing the problem – BUT THERE IS A LONG WAY TO GO STILL.

For instance, you could take the alleged $2 million that Greenidge J’ delay cost Kingsland and hire four top lawyers as judges, instead of the also-rans who are chauffered around in MP-reg cars by police drivers. You could also sweeten the pot (and pay them less money) by making it a condition of employment as a judge that each be knighted or made a dame immediately upon being appointed. And if you all don’t think that Mrs. Lawyer or Mr. Lawyer isn’t going to move Heaven and Earth to become Lady Judge or the husband of Dame Judge, you are WRONG. AND you could go to the magistrates courts every so often (and sit quietly at the back, like I do) and you might find, if you are VERY lucky, a magistrate who shows all the signs of becoming a first class judge. Being a woman, of course, I am prejudice, but I most sincerely hope I live to see the day when Dame Pamela Beckles is inducted Chief Justice of Barbados.

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85 responses to “Nelson Barbados Group Ordered To Pay Cost~The Other Side Of The Kingsland Estate Court Matter Part VIII”


  1. Bush tea has never liked Lawyers, will never respect them and could never trust one…

    What I find fascinating about this whole matter (which I confess that I DO NOT REALLY UNDERSTAND) is than NO ONE has as yet dealt with the simple question that I would like to get answered….

    DID THIS PROPERTY REALLY BELONG TO THIS FAMILY AND HAS IT REALLY BEEN EFFECTIVELY TAKEN AWAY OVER THE YEARS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT AND WITHOUT FAIR COMPENSATION?

    I am not really interested in the legal games through which lawyers do their scavenging. BWWR has been brilliantly articulate in representing these legal machinations… but simple minded Bush tea only want to know…

    DID THEY REALLY THIEF THE WOMAN PROPERTY?


  2. @Bush tea

    A valid question and let us go further. If it is that the land was lifted from the old lady why is it that a team of high powered lawyers with deep pockets for clients were not able to arrive at justice for the old lady?


  3. @BT

    You couldn’t have said it better. Now we await the answer


  4. Bush Tea asks the question: Did Madge Knox have her land stolen on her?

    Simple answer. NO! She never owned any of the land for anyone to teef. If you don’t own it, no body can teef it.

    What Madge Knox has is 28,570 shares in the company that owns the land. You will note that I said “has” and not “had”. No body has teefed her shares. She still OWNS them. Indeed, I understand that since Classic took over the balance of the 300,000 shares in Kingsland and the running of Kingsland, the value of those shares has risen greatly, due to proper management at board of directors level.

    And Madge is in no position to complain about what the board of directors did to devalue the company prior to its ceasing operation in 1994 – because she herself was a member of that board and had been for 9 years by that time – more than sufficient time to either reverse the decline (as the new directors reportedly have done) or to resign from the board and take them to court. However, by her failure to resign and take them to court, any reasonably human being has to assume that she agreed with the board in its management.

    So, in answer to your question, Bush Tea, no one has teefed ANYTHING from Madge Knox.

    Why then is she complaining? Simple answer there as well:

    1. The other shareholders wanted to sell their shares.

    2. They all, including Madge, got an offer from Classic to buy those shares which they, except Madge and one other who latyer agreed as well, wanted to accept.

    3. Madge did not want to accept Classic’s offer.

    4. Before selling to Classic, the other shareholders asked Madge if she wanted to buy their shares on the same basis as Classic had offered, before they agreed to sell those shares to Classic.

    5. Madge wrote a letter in reply that constituted a refusal of the offer, so the other shareholders agreed to sell to Classic.

    6. One day after the others had agreed to sell to Classic, Peter Allard made an offer to refinance Kingsland which, in the circumstances, was rejected.

    7. Almost a year later and having rejected the offer to sell her their shares, Madge (by now financed by Peter Allard) decided that she DID want to buy the shares. However, while Classic had offered aout $40 per share and had an enforceable agreement, Madge declared that she had a right to buy the shares for $3.60 per share.

    8. Later, Madge did meet the Classic offer, but nearly a year too late and even if they others had wanted to sell Madge her shares, they could not have done so any longer, because they were legally committed to sell them to Classic. So Madge filed an action to force the shareholders to set aside their agreement with Classic and sell to her/Peter Allard.

    9. This action was finally decided by the Privy Council and the decision was against Madge/Peter Allard.

    So, just to repeat, no one has taken Madge’s land, because she didn’t own any – and no one as taken her shares in the company that owns that land – yet. However, that may well happen as Madge has not paid the legal costs she owes to the people she has sued and lost to.

    I hope this clarifies it all.


  5. @BT

    If she had lost her property without compensation do you think she would have lost her case in the privy council?

  6. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    Just remind me who the directors of Classic are and also remind me who was a previous or current chairman?

    ‘due to proper management at board of directors level’*

    *Does this also apply to Hotels and Resorts Ltd?


  7. Mr. Loveridge,

    I am confused. I personally know who the directors of Kingsland were prior to the Classic take-over. I knew them all personally. I also know that, apart from Erie Deane, there is a new board, but I don’t know who the rest are.

    Having read the Reasons of Shaughnessy J. and the decision on appeal of those reasons of Howden J., both of which feature you heavily, not to mention your starring role in affidavits of John Knox that I have now been able to read courtsey of BU and BWWR, it seems to me that you are extremely well placed to get these answers yourself from Mr. Allard, Mr. McKenzie or Mr. Knox – and, unless his self-professed fear for his safety in Barbados has drven him out of Barbados, Mr. Knox is merely a local call away from you. So, why don’t you find out and enlighten us?

    As for the comment about Hotels and Resorts Ltd., I have no idea of what you are trying to say or what point you are trying to make. Does Kingsland share a director with Hotels and Resorts or does one own stock in the other? Will someone please enlighten me.

  8. politically incorrect Avatar
    politically incorrect

    Really can’t comment on the case in point. Very complex.

    I can however tell you that I hired Alair Shepherd as my lawyer in the early 90’s when I was young and easily fooled.

    I paid him thousands of dollars. He took my case willingly. This was a clear cut divorce case with no children involved.

    This “lawyer” was obviously “bought” out by my ex-husband’s lawyer, another eminent QC in Barbados. A long story that I don’t care to go into in this forum.

    I ended up with a settlement of 12% when the Family Law of Barbados states a 50/50 split in the case of a dissolution of the marriage . A marriage in which I had supported my ex-husband for years. A marriage that had lasted 13 years.

    Out of the $30,000 BDS I received (the 12% settlement) Alair Shepherd was paid $6,000.

    He committed to obtain the Decree Nisi within a year as required by the law. When the year elapsed I was out of the country. I made several long distance calls he flat down refused to do what he had been paid to do. I had to re-hire a lawyer in the country of my then residence.

    For people such as myself, unable to defend themselves due to lack of money and CONNECTIONS ……..this is what the Barbados legal system promises to offer.


  9. BWWR

    Thanks you for you usually lucid and extremely well reasoned response. It is certainly enlightening.

    Remember however my simple minded approach to such matters (I drive my lawyer friends mad…) and tell me where my assessment of what you said is wrong….

    Some 70 or so years ago, an enterprising Bajan invested in some land and prospered, ending up with significant holdings.

    This property was held within the family circle, however as the business oriented family members died the property fell into disrepair and some Directors, including the complainant showed little interest in the affairs.

    Some outside interests offered to purchase the property and this was accepted by all but the complainant, who apparently felt that their share was worth much more than offered.

    The others sold, after offering their shares to the complainant (who obviously could not afford to buy them based on the conditions under which she lived)

    Subsequently, another speculator offered to finance the complainant’s purchase of the shares.

    HOWEVER, you say that having missed some ‘deadline’, this arrangement was now no longer possible…and that the court has ruled to this effect.

    It appears to simple minded Bush tea that two different sets of ‘vultures’ are engaged in a fight to gain control of this ladies’ assets and that, in the process the weapon of ‘legal fees’ and complex court process’ is being used to penalize her for trying to protect her rightful interest.

    If I was a judge in this case, I would award costs equally between Allard and Classic; Have an independent valuation of the property done and pay the complainant for her shares at the rate determined; Then I would reprimand and fine all the lawyers involved for milking this situation as they have done.( don’t worry, I will NEVER be a judge…LOL)

    The frightening thing is that this is unique only in that the complainant has been able to push the matter publicly for so long. This is actually STANDARD practice by lawyers in this country (and others) and the end result is usually rich lawyers and ‘unfaired’ citizens.

    I do not blame Knots for trying to get justice elsewhere either- however short sighted it turns out to have been..

    Sounds to Bush tea like the classic case of let’s rob the weak widow…

    – Which judge in this place has the balls to focus on JUSTICE rather that the often stupid law and court process….. or on who is his lodge brother…

    …and BWWR, things in Bim are so much NOT what they seem that….
    I do not think that you are a woman, or even that you are black…. and I suspect that you may write much more than you read too….


  10. Shell company upon shell company. No audited statements produced for more than a decade. No records of which directors sold which pieces of land when or where the money went, and a trusting old lady who believed that her family members were looking after her affairs and that Kingsland Estates was bankrupt anyway: because that is what she was told.

    Old women who own valuable land are easy pickings for Barbados lawyers and politicians and there are many big name politicians and lawyers involved in this one.

    This isn’t over. It hasn’t even begun. The lawyers for the guilty have been use every tactic so it never come to court.

    That is right. This has NEVER been brought before a court for a trial.

    All of the times it has been before a court in Barbados, England and Canada was all about legal side issues: who has the right to do this, say this, produce this document, demand that form. The main issues have never been heard before a court anywhere because the lawyers on the other side of the old lady are very good at lawyering. Corrupt, but very good lawyers.


  11. Thank You, One Who Knows……finally someone who can see thru all the smoke and mirrors thrown up by not only lawyers but BWWR as well.

  12. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    I know many decent individuals who are lawyers, but the legal profession, especially in Barbados, borders on disgraceful.

    BWWR are you proud of your profession and the quality of service and contribution it is making to Barbados?

    What would you consider the fair value of the Knox’s share in Kingsland Estate to be, both at the time of the ‘deal’ with Classic and today? How does this compare with what she was being offered?

    Who are the directors of Classic?


  13. MME

    What Classic what!?!

    The local company’s act is the ultimate scam designed to facilitate the kind of schemes that has become the norm since its enactment.

    This act allows the creation of entities that hide the real operatives behind schemes, that frustrates openness and transparency and encourages insider trading.

    I understand that it is not even a legal requirement that the OWNERS (shareholders) of a company be named. Even if we know the directors this does not say much, since these be just be fromt men created to mask the REAL shareholders.

    …but I may be wrong, Bush tea aint no lawyer (thank you BBE…)

  14. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    Anyone with $5 can check on Barbados registered companies at the CAIPO office.

    Classic Investments Ltd
    # 11693
    Registered 29 January 1996

    Kingsland Estates Inc.
    #1654
    Registered 1 July 1958

    According to CAIPO records no company called Nelson Barbados Group Ltd is registetred but some 11 company names that are start with NELSON………


  15. Why after so many blogs and comments we are asking who are the directors? Can’t somebody just type the names? What is there to hide?

    Classic – The unknown entity

    TIMELINE 1996 – PRESENT
    # 1994-97 prospective investors made offers for the shares but were deterred as neither audited financial statements nor financial information or valuations of the assets were available.
    # 1996-97 a prospective investor was advised by Richard Cox in the presence of his partner David Shorey and others that the family owners of Kingsland would never get the approvals that Classic could obtain. David Shorey also advised that the Prime Minister was being kept up-to-date on the matter. The Prime Minister, at that time, was responsible for the final decision in regard to the permissions that Classic required on Kingsland lands.
    # In September of 1997, the directors recommended to the shareholders that they accept an offer from R.G. Mandeville & Co. on behalf of an undisclosed principal. Two of the shareholders refused. All of the other shareholders accepted the offer from the undisclosed principal. At the end of October of 1997, the Chairman, Errie Deane, informed the board that the undisclosed principal of R.G. Mandeville was in fact Classic.
    # In 1997-98 all of the shareholders with the exception of Marjorie Knox signed conditional contracts with Classic Investments Ltd. whose principals include David Shorey of the controversial GEMS Hotels & Resorts Ltd. and Richard Cox. The conditions related to certain Town Planning Approvals being obtained for 420 acres of land i.e.Application No. 1395/6/98 made by L.O.B. Holdings, a joint venture between Classic and Life of Barbados Ltd., for 110 acres at Kingsland’s Adams Castle Plantation , Christ Church subdivision for residential use andApplication No. 1384/6/98 made by Kingsland for 310 acres at Kingsland’s Hanson Plantation, St. George for residential use and sporting facilities including golf.
    # The contract included among other privileges that of participating in negotiations with Government as to the price Government was to pay for the 1990 acquisition of 15.75 acres of Kingsland land on Kendal Hill for the construction of the Transport Board headquarters. This property and other Kingsland property in the same area was the subject of a discourse between the Prime Minister, Mr. Owen Arthur and Mr. Joe Edghill a member of cabinet was carried in the media.
    # In 1998, Mr. Alair Shepherd, Q.C. and Sir Henry Forde, K.A., Q.C. filed Suit No 1805 of 1998 Marjorie Ilma Knox vs. John Vere Evelyn Deane et al in regard to her preemptive rights over the shares and her right to financial information. 18 months later the decision was handed down by Justice Lionel Greenidge against her.
    # In 2001 Civil Appeal No. 17 of 2001 was filed. Marjorie Knox was ordered by the Court of Appeal judges to pay $1 million into court as security for costs and VAT which had been claimed by the lawyers for the respondents or her case would be dismissed. The lawyers claimed:

    * Sir Harold St.John, Q.C. $626,750.00
    * Mr. Leslie Haynes, Q.C. $612,950.00
    * Cottle Catford & Co. $379,500.00
    * Mr. Vernon Smith $552,000.00
    * Mr. Clyde Turney, Q.C $172,500.00

    As far as I know, no invoices to clients have been produced by any of the above attorneys-at-law to prove that they actually incurred these costs, and there is no indication whether VAT has been paid.

    Source: Keltruth Blog

  16. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    … when considering the fair value question, bear in mind that after purchasing the shares for $3.60, less than a year later Classic was offering it to Knox at $40.00… now dat is what I call a “reverse in decline” of property value… after a couple months… dat is a Classic LOL

    … so, a day before Knox had the money required to make the purchase, the other directors unknown to her signed an agreement to sell to Classic… one DAY before? LOL… dat is another Classic

    “they, except Madge and one other who latyer agreed as well, wanted to accept”… BWWR, could you clarify this? Cuz it sound like another Classic LOL

  17. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    … anyone ever see that reality show The Mole? Maybe they should run a reenactment of the Kingsland Estates saga. At the end, viewers could vote for a Board member.

  18. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    BWWR… are you The Mole?… LOL


  19. @BWWR

    Like Bush tea wrote earlier we admire the articulate way in which you have cushioned this issue for the BU family to digest. We truly appreciate it. However we think that there is a lot you may not be telling. There is something missing which we can’t quite articulate…lol, but you may know what we mean. The woman was knocked out time and time again but like a bulldog she kept coming and coming. Why after all this time many are starting to feel that this woman has been taken to the cleaners by the sharks?

    BWWR step away from your legalese and give us your layman view we would appreciate it.

  20. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    “they, except Madge and one other who latyer agreed as well, wanted to accept”… BWWR, could you clarify this? Cuz it sound like another Classic LOL

    Some clarification is required… did BWWR mean to say “later” or “lawyer”? Freudian slip?
    It is not unheard of for clients to be taken to the cleaner on the advice of their “latyer”… LOL


  21. Ever wonder how the same name(s) crop up with respect to controversial land deals? Didn’t David Shorey’s name come up with that other land deal in the Holder’s hill area, the land that was acquired from the poor farmer and eventually sold to Sandy Lane. Wasn’t the former PM also responsible tor Town Planning?

    Something is rotten in the state of Denmark


  22. Sargeant

    You may be surprised how many places David Shorey’s name comes up…

    Now that I know that David S is involved I need hear no more…..

  23. Someone said the 'BLP Stalwart' Avatar
    Someone said the ‘BLP Stalwart’

    Sargeant, I think we should put out a bulletin for your friend. No one seems to see or hear him. Did you shut him up or is he strategically coming to oust you from your guise that failed to change things for the better. All I am hearing is how bad things getting since the 15th of January. Please, I beg you Sargeant, find your friend for us, he may have some answers.

  24. Someone said the 'BLP Stalwart' Avatar
    Someone said the ‘BLP Stalwart’

    Sargeant, seems like I have no choice but to join you although the rationale may be entirely different. No, I am not tempted to be slanderous like you nor do I wish to play in your orchestra. I just hope someone can find George for me. We need him so that people like you will have less to say and more to investigate. Are you not tired with the fiasco? I wonder what Harley thinks of you, after all I understand he is the one calling all the shots. Well most of the shots. George did not tell me, but I hope he can confirm it — there is trouble in the DLP camp over the lies that were recently exposed in relation to the hospital. You know anything about it Sargeant? I beg you, shake George from his hiding place, we need him, Barbadians need him, and more than likely you will need him to pacify your tormented soul.


  25. …so wait David,

    You get very dread!

    You mean to say that you gone and ban BWWR from your blog?
    She is uncharacteristically quiet now that there are so many questions o be answered. You sure that BWWR is not Mr Worme from BL&P?


  26. “Why after all this time many are starting to feel that this woman has been taken to the cleaners by the sharks?”

    —————–

    I have sympathy for Mrs Knox

    Her family made a stupid deal which looks even more stupid as land values rise.

    The buyers classic are indeed a nasty bunch of “sharks”

    Worse for her, she is now a minority shareholder with them and no doubt they do everything to screw her

    However, the law does not prevent you doing a bad deal of your own free will and that is what her family did. That is basically why she lost right up to the privy council.

    This canadian case though is a pathetic attempt by Allard to harass people he thinks have wronged him and so he is backing Knox (I would not be surprised if he was shafted by classic at some point).

    They tried to make up that they were threatened so the Canadian court would order the defendants to Canada because Barbados was “unsafe”

    Just plain lies and and of course happily spread by Allard/Loveridge/BFP.

    It is ridiculous to suggest that the Mckensie legal team would be “in danger” in Barbados and even more ridiculous to suggest than somehow they got John Knox fired.

    Anyone actually read his affidavit? do you think anyone really feared that rambling bit of nonsense?


  27. Not only did the Canadian court not find any threats they accused the plaintiffs of actually going on a “fishing expedition” when calling Simmons from Allards home !!!!!!!!! (and of course they just happened to record the call)


  28. Bush Tea – Your reasoning is too complex for me. I refer to your post at August 9, 2008 at 1:45 pm. I always believed that the value of anything is what someone is prepared to pay for it. If I offer you $1,000 for your car and you refuse me, end of story. If you accept and I pay you a deposit, then if you change your mind, I can force you to sell. Madge Knox was offered what the prospective purchaser was prepared to pay. She refused. End of story. She keeps her shares. Done.

    one who knows // August 9, 2008 at 2:35 pm – you say: “Old women who own valuable land….” . As I pointed out, Madge Knox did not and does not and never has owned the land. Therefore, as your premise is not correct, I cannot help you.

    Bush tea // August 9, 2008 at 3:51 pm – the Barbados Companies Act, which took effect in 1986, is taken DIRECTLY from the Canadian Act of 1975. How interesting that Canada has been chosen as the forum to try to retry this case. How interesting that it doesn’t seem to get off the ground there. Wonder why. You then say: “I understand that it is not even a legal requirement that the OWNERS (shareholders) of a company be named. Even if we know the directors this does not say much, since these be just be fromt men created to mask the REAL shareholders.” CORRECT. The same as the Companies Acts of practically every country in the World now. Certainly the same as all the countries in our area that are competing with us for off-shore business. More on that in my reply to Mr. Loveridge.

    Adrian Loveridge // August 9, 2008 at 3:52 pm. Thank you for that misleading piece of information. Very revealing of you. Why do I expect no better from you? Of course you will not find Nelson Barbados Group Limited listed among the Barbados companies. So, everyone, keep your $5 in your pockets. Let me help you out. Nelson Barbados Group Ltd. was formed, according to PROVINCE OF ONTARIO MINISTRY OF CONSUMER AND BUSINESS SERVICES COMPANIES AND PERSONAL PROPERTY SECURITY BRANCH on November 15th, 2005. In ONTARIO, Mr. Loveridge, not BARBADOS – but you knew that. And do you know something else, Bush Tea, the names of the shareholders are NOT LISTED. All we get is the name of its ONLY director, Mr. DONALD BEST. And something else. Mr. Best gives as his address 40 Coldwater Street East, Orilla, Ontario, Canada L3V 8K4 – an address very familiar to Mr. Loveridge as it is that of his good friend Goat McKenzie. Hmmmmm, as BFP would say. 2086451 is Nelson’s company number. Mr. Best, by the way, is a resident Canadian. Do any of you know Donald Best? I don’t. I am sure you can assist us, Mr. Loveridge. Do a little fishing. Telephone Mr. Allard and the Goat and discuss something close to all your hearts – surfing, not Graeme Hall – and then reel them in for us. Think of Heaslet. You are our Fish now. Show us what you can do. Tourism Authority, I think we have another “Professor Knox on out hands here.

    Micro Mock Engineer – chile, re-read everything then comment. You starting to sound like a certain former low-level lecturer at a W.I. university who was terminated for cause, and I am sure that is not that case – avoid the connection. Read and then get back.

    David – away from legalese. Madge Knox, as a director of Kingsland from when it was a going and financially profitable concern in 1985 until it ceased operation in 1994, is responsible along with the rest of the board of directors for the decline in Kingsland’s viability. Madge Knox did not cease to be a director until 1995. The Deane family (which includes Madge Knox) had been trying since the late 80s to sell their respective interests in Kingsland. That is why ALL the shareholders, including Madge Knox, agreed to sell their shares to SBG. With SBG, each shareholder would get $1,000,000. The agreement with SBG was signed by the shareholders, including Madge Knox, and is dated January 1992. When this sale failed, it was generally known that Kingsland’s shares were up for grabs. Everybody knew it. However, what very few people were able to predict was that Barbados property prices would rise quite so dramatically and that this would render Kingsland cash bankrupt (with the debt to Barbados Agricultural Credit Trust alone at in excess of $11 million and rising since Kingsland could not afford to pay the interest and there were, as I recall, foreclosure actions already filed in the Courts) but asset rich. Classic DID identify this opportunity and moved to capitalize on it. Peter Allard too identified the opportunity, but did not move until after Classic had already got an agreement and paid a deposit – therefore, he was out of luck. By the way, I note that in December 1997, Allard himself considered that 28,570 shares in Kingsland were worth $1 million only. Allard had the opportunity of acquiring at that time almost 30% of the Kingsland shares, by the simple method of making an offer to the two dissenting shareholders. Instead, he chose to enlist one of those shareholders as a front to try to hijack Classic’s purchase. It didn’t work. Is Classic a shark? Yes. But frankly if I am investing in a company myself, I want to know that I will make money. Is Allard a shark? Well, I leave that for you to decide on. And remember, a shark is a fish. I hope this answers your question.

    I apologize for the delay in replying to all your questions. I had a few family matters to attend to and, I also had to e-mail a few contacts to find out the answers to some of the questions, most notably, David’s. The legality of the situation is very clear to me, so I am setting that aside….. What everyone forgets is the changing economic climate over the last 16 years. Since about 2000, land prices in Barbados have increased on average about 35% per annum. This was not the case in 1992, when the sale of Kingsland to SBG was contemplated. It ought also to be noted that in 1992, SBG also contracted to purchase the shares and/or land of Staple Grove Estates Limited and of Ridge Limited – for essentially SUBSTANTIALLY LESS than they agreed to pay for Kingsland. All sugar-related companies were in a bad way. Later, there was (in 1995, I understand) another purchaser with which all the Kingsland shareholders, including Madge Knox – as well as Ridge Limited (ruled over by BS&T head at the time, David Bynoe, Ernest Hunt and Joey Armstrong Q.C.) and Staple Grove Estates (ruled by Lionel and Brian Ward), agreed to sell their interests to – for essentially the same amount as Kingsland. Two years later, there was Classic.

    So to recap:

    1992 – Kingsland, Staple Grove and Ridge. And Madge Knox agrees.

    1995 – Kingsland, Staple Grove and Ridge. And Madge Knox agrees.

    1997 – Kingsland. And Madge Knox disagrees.

    So what is the missing element. I say it is Peter Allard identifying the opportunity, but just missing the boat, followed by an ill-judged and badly executed attempt to get on board and excessive sour grapes and spite when he couldn’t manage it. What do you say?

  29. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    Amused…

    EXACTLY which lies have I spread?

    Now tell us the TRUTH about Mr David Shorey’s involvement.

    Also WHY was he sacked as Chairman of Caribbean Commercial Bank?

    Why was he allowed to remain Chairman of Hotels and Resorts Ltd despite accumulating a quoted debt of $200 million and leaving tens of millions of unpaid interest?

    Where did the proceeds of the sale of Eastry House and Silver Rock hotel go?

    Name EVERY single company/entity that Mr Shorey has been associated with and what is their status now?

    ‘Spread’ing lies.

    Come on Amused, WHY don’t you spread the TRUTH?

    Or Amused, are you really the same person that sent all the death threats and using the computer in Parliament again?

  30. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    Amused…

    Exactly which lies am I ‘spread’ ing?

    Just tell us the names of the Directors and people can drawn their own conclusions.

    Tell us also WHY Mr David Shorey was sacked as Chairman of Caribbean Commercial Bank?

    And WHY he remained Chairman of Hotels and Resorts Ltd despite accumulating over $200 million in debt and tens of millions of dollars in unpaid interest?

    Explain exactly WHERE the proceeds of the sale of Eastry House and Silver Rock have gone?

    Explain WHY the taxpayer have not seen audited accounts of Hotels and Resorts Ltd when Mr Shorey was chairman, since 2001?

    And name every single company/entity that Mr Shorey has been associated with as director or chairman and what is their status now?

    Amused…

    How about ‘spread’ ing the truth for a change?

    Or are you using the same computer in Parliament that has sent all the death, arson and rape threats?


  31. I am going on vacation soon and so don’t have as much time as usual.

    However, because of the interest shown by the BU family, I will advise BU and David the moment I find out what happens on August 27. I notice that neither Keltruth nor BFP has publicized either the bringing of the motion for costs or the results of it – and I think we can all agree that they BOTH knew of it. Clearly if anyone wants hard news on what is happening on this issue, this is the place to be – and be not mistaken, I will report exactly what happens regardless of who is advantaged by it as soon as I find out about it. This is the only way that the Court of Public Opinion can be effective.

    Subjective and selective reporting like the Advocate and Nation and VOB doesn’t do anyone any favours and, in fact, it insults our intelligence and humanity and right to objectively form our own opinions on matters concerning our country and community. In a nutshell, it is extremely disrespectful to us all.

  32. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    BWWR,

    ‘misleading piece of information’

    Actually, I think this could be applied to you!

    ‘due to the proper management at board level’

    You stated this about Classic Investments but refuse to admit who the Directors are/were and likewise the former or curent Chairman.

    Who is ‘misleading’ who?

    Explain to the taxpaying Barbadians why Classic can be so well run, but Hotels and Resorts Ltd can loose over $200 million?

    And what about ALL the other companies that director has been associated with?

    Did I ask before, why was he sacked as Chairman of Caribbean Commercial Bank?

    Was it due to ‘proper management at board level’?


  33. Mr. Loveridge, why do you not name the members of this board of directors you are harping on about? You have some point to make that frankly escapes me. Make it and stop asking questions to which you clearly already know the answer.

    As for this connection between Hotels and Resorts and this issue, I don’t know what it is. What has Classic got to do with Hotels and Resorts? Please enlighten us all. Name names, sir. And when you have done that, make your point.

    NEXT: Which director, Mr. Loveridge, do you refer to? Please name him/her so that we all know just what point you are making and what you are talking about.

    By the way, Mr. Loveridge, are we to assume that you are going to assist us by checking with your friends and doing a little fishing??!! Ah well, it was worth a try.

    Tourism Authority….better you and me.


  34. I have just read Mr. Loveridge’s attack on Amused.

    Mr. Loveridge, we got in Barbados an institution that we Bajans affectionately call “Jenkins”. You would know it as the Psychiatric Hospital. They will be able to provide you with help and some appropriate meds, if you don’t already have these.

    David (Shorey) was once, as I have reason to know, employed as a facilitator by Classic. He was never a shareholder or director of Classic – as you have reason to know. Apart from that and for the last many years, I can see no involvement of David of ANY KIND with Kingland or Classic and I can see no connection between those two and Hotels and Resorts Ltd., which I understand to be a government-owned entity. My reserach shows that both Kingsland and Classic are not government-owned or affiliated.

    Now, if you have any proof to the contrary, please post it here so that we can all make a big stink and at the same time give your close friend, Mr. Allard, the one missing item he needed to turn this into a bi-lateral trade agreement matter. Otherwise, no amount of wishful thinking on your part is going to turn this into other than what it is – sour graps and a spoiled Canadian brat.


  35. Was Kingsland one of those interesting companies with 2 Boards of Directors, one for making money and one for losing it?

  36. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    12 November 2007
    ‘Classic – The unknown entity’

    ‘signed conditional contracts with Classic Investments Ltd whose principals include DAVID SHOREY of the controversial GEMS Hotels and Resorts Ltd’

    Are you then stating this verbatim quote is not true?

    Are you stating that David Shorey is not or never has been a director of Classic Investments Ltd?


  37. @BWWR

    We have to say that there is never a dull moment with your participation. It is unfortunate that now this matter is heating up you are about to go on vacation!

    Could you comment on this article which was penned by Patrick Hoyos of the Broad Street Journal? He clearly fingers Shorey as being a principal of Classic Investment.

    THE DIRECTORS and all but one shareholder of Kingsland Estates Ltd. had agreed in 1997 to sell all of its lands and other assets to Classic Investments Ltd., a company whose principals were said to be David Shorey and Richard Cox of Barbados.

    The lands comprising the sale were Adams Castle’s 163 acres in Christ Church, Hanson Plantation including Lower Birneys, whose 387 acres straddle St. Michael, Christ Church and St. George; Kingsland House, on seven acres in Christ Church; two beachfront properties on Maxwell Coast Road, “Spion Kop” and “Craigwell”; Bannatyne Plantation including Silver Hill Tenantry, about 197 acres in Christ Church; Wotton Plantation, some 266 acres in Christ Church; and Egerton House on 3 acres in St. George. The buildings on these lands are also part of the sale.

    full article

  38. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    David,

    add to that…

    15th July 2005
    Broad Street Journal

    ‘Classic now part of the Kingsland shareholding family’

    ‘Classic is now, at least in terms of shareholding, part of the Kingsland family. The company, in which Richard Cox and David Shorey are principals’.

    Patrick Hoyos.

  39. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    Tanty BWWR, old girl, yuh answer that fair value question like a true shark. You really beginning to sound like The Mole yuh… Enjoy your vacation, and may you live in interesting times.


  40. BWWR

    When I grow up, I want to be as good as you are!! If you are not now, then you should be in the PR business.

    Now I understand all that you have said so far, however you seem unwilling or unable to deal with my simple minded concerns – remember, Bush tea has an inherent distrust of lawyers -so I tend to focus on SIMPLE points.

    This old Lady, owned shares in the company that owned this extensive property. (somehow you get that to mean that she was NOT an owner of the property, but hey…)

    She is and old Lady who trusted others to look after her interest.

    They were interested in selling and an ‘offer’ was made. Now let us look at this from the lady’s perspective-

    After having this ‘offer’ made, another offer was put on the table. What law is this old lady breaking by seeking to leverage these two competing bids?

    You on the other hand, seems to be using legalize to suggest, in the final analysis, that since Classic offered first, this lady MUST sell to Classic or you and your legal network will make sure that she dies a pauper.

    Mistress, if Bush tea was selling a banana -and after the first offer of 10 cents, another bidder came along with 12 cents – the ten cents man has to buzz off… but then again Bush tea is no little old lady…

    WHAT HAS THE LADY DONE OTHER THAN TO SEEK TO MAXIMIZE HER ASSETS?

    What gives Classic the right to get this property at anything but the true market price (as determined by bidding against any other interest) ?

    It should be clear that Bush tea is not impressed with the legal chatter. I have too many lawyer friends to be impressed…

    You would need to show why this lady should be forced by your legal gang, to spend all her assets on legal fees just in seeking to protect and maximize the value of her assets.

    …seems to me that anyone that you and your legal gang targets is fair game, should you decide to make them an ‘offer that they cannot refuse’
    … the only difference between your gang and the mafia is that your weapon of choice is the court system and your legal brilliance..

    …not a bad PR job either.


  41. Anon 3
    “David (Shorey) was once, as I have reason to know, employed as a facilitator by Classic”
    ———————————————————
    Seems that he was quite the “facilitator”.

  42. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    … all this shark talk got me thinking bout JAWS… I done wid dis thread bosie.


  43. Mention Loveridge’s name and he worries you are someone out to kill him.

    I suggest you see a medical practitioner you do not want this paranoia to get out of hand.

    I have no idea who Mr Shorey is so I cant answer the questions about him but I thought we talking about Kingland and a case in Canada.

    If he is a director of classic well read my comments and you can see what I think about classic.

    I know of some of the people in classic and they are ‘sharks’, if he is director you would have no trouble convincing me he is one too.


  44. Just so I dont accuse you wrongfully of spreading lies, can you tell us ;

    – do you believe that Peter simmons threatened to harm/kill Mckensie and/or his legal team

    – do you believe that simmons had John Knox fired because he was a “witness’ in the canadian case

    – do you believe the people out to kill you are one and the same which is why your name features in the affidavits


  45. Bush Tea, as you say, you don’t like lawyers. Does this also mean that you don’t like the law? If you own shares in, let us say, Brydens, that does not mean that you own the property that Bryden’s owns. It means that the board of directors is appointed by a majority of the shareholders to deal with the assets of Brydens. Your job is to vote for (or stand for election to) that board of directors in accordance with the number of shares you own. It is a simple democratic process. You with me? And, if you are, then the rest of my copious answers will make sense to you. If not, well there isn’t anything any of us can do to help you.

    Don’t worry, David. I will be keeping tabs and will report the moment I hear the news on 27th. I suspect things are hotting up because you posted the latest news, instead of a re-hash of old comments. I would say that you ‘scooped’ them, but as BFP and Keltruth clearly had no intention of reporting what happened, ‘scoop’ is not really correct.

    As for Pat Hoyos, well, if Pat had examined the private corporate records of Classic where its shareholders were named (they were provided at Madge Knox’s request for discovery) you would see that David Shorey is not a shareholder. And we know that he is not a director. So, Mr. Loveridge, if you have evidence to show that Shorey ever was a director, please produce it and I will stand corrected.

    You see, I have no problems admitting when I am wrong or mistaken. I can face these things and take my licks like a big woman. I can also pay my costs and the costs of my opponent if I am wrong in court as well – and I do not need to fraudulently try to hide or dispose of my assets in order to defraud my creditors. I also am prepared to accept when a judge (or the Privy Council) tells me I am wrong and I do not feel I (or anyone) have the right to go behind that decision and try to get a court, Canadian or otherwise, of incompetent jurisdiction to try to overset a final appeal.


  46. So far as I know, David Shorey was never either a shareholder or director of Classic. Therefore, unless Mr. Loveridge can prove otherwise, I say Mr. Hoyos is wrong, which is by no means unknown.

    Waterboy, YES, I do have reason to know. So what?


  47. “if Bush tea was selling a banana -and after the first offer of 10 cents, another bidder came along with 12 cents – the ten cents man has to buzz off”

    @BT,

    If the 10 cents man has a contract with you then you cant tell him to buzz off. Thats the law of contract

    Likewise, if the 10 cents man started to claim the market has fallen and he is now is only willing to pay you 8 cents, you can enforce the sale (or be compensated).

    They key word is offer. Once you an accept an offer you have a contract and with that goes obligations.

    If Allard came came after the contract with classic was done (as long as it was a valid contract) it does not matter what he offers.

    You are will justified in not trusting lawyers but BWWR main point is that mistrust does not have to extend to the law itself.


  48. BWWR

    Thanks for the explanation. I still have a little problem; you see, I have some shares in an insurance company. I have no doubt that I do NOT own anything but some shares in that organisation.
    On the other hand, I also have 1/5 ownership of shares in a family business. Again I have NO DOUBT that I, Bush tea owns 1/5 of that business (whatever the proper ‘legal’ position is…..)
    My point is that a public company (the example that you gave) seems somehow a different situation.

    ..I still would like to hear what the lady did wrong… Bush tea don’t plan to lose his little ‘pickings’ if it can be avoided…


  49. From the Pat Hoyos, article we see where classic screwed Allard which no doubt set the canadian action off

    “The doubling of the price for Spion Kop and Craigwell proved to be the poison pill that led to the break-up of the Allard-Classic alliance. Within two weeks the price for the beachfront property had climbed to $3 million, which Mr. Allard was still willing to pay. But despite a verbal agreement to do so, he noted later, “There were references by David Shorey to David Gittens (Allard’s attorney) that the lands may be worth as high as $5 or $6 million Barbadian dollars.”

    Mr. Allard decided to break with Classic and made a counter offer directly to Kingsland’s shareholders, which proved too late.”

    sharks everywhere I think


  50. “My point is that a public company (the example that you gave) seems somehow a different situation.”

    ——————–

    It would be because you probably just have a small percentage of the insurance company which would give you a vote

    1/5 of a family business would often mean you would be on the board and so your role in the company would be far greater

    the ownership of the assets in the same in each case, they are owned by the company

    In the case of the family business, if on the board you would obviously have more say in how the assets are managed including their sale

    I dont think the lady did anything wrong.

    Allard however, funding this action in canada which is nothing more than harassment is another story.

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