It is beginning to look a lot like Hyatt Barbados Ziva. A check of the website – http://www.hyattcarlislebay.com/ gives a brief overview of the project and developer Vision Development Inc. Importantly, several documents the BU family has asked for have been posted under the Environmental Impact Assessment link.
Thanks Amit!
Found it via Barbados Today: https://barbadostoday.bb/2019/12/13/activist-still-unhappy-with-hotel-project-backs-planning-process/
It seems David Commissiong is satisfied with the ‘process’.
Notice in the illustration how unfriendly the Bay Street facade of this proposed development is. There is absolutely nothing at human scale at street level. We must make them replace this with street level accessible boutiques, coffee shops, etc.
This behemoth is projected to employ 1,500 people and accommodate almost 400 guests. For this the propose to provide all of 100 parking spaces… guaranteed traffic chaos.
The 18 story condo tower must be entirely eliminated! It has nothing to do with the Hyatt hotel; it just is added to allow Maloney to pour more concrete and generate more excessive profits selling condos built on public land where all the money ends up in his pockets.
Anyone notice all companies involved in Geotech, EA, DESIGN etc, all have links to Mahoney.
RE It seems David Commissiong is satisfied with the ‘process’.
IS David Commissiong THE LORD?
The design shown appears to be more than 380 rooms are all buildings for the single development
“The 18 story condo tower must be entirely eliminated! It has nothing to do with the Hyatt hotel;”
Interesting. I had noted Ziva did not contain a condo component like Centric, and wondered how they were being incorporated. Your comment suggests the condos are in a stand alone building. They will get mobilization money, as all developers do, from down payments on the condo sales, to help with cash flow on the entire project. 40 in an 18sty bldg, means some big a** PH’s. I wonder how @enuff will spin this lil revelation.
@ Northern
Well I would imagine a few of those condos will be “retained” by the developer for sale at a later date.
(Quote):
Direct investment as a result of the hotel will be upwards of US$175 million. (Unquote).
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Is this “direct investment” from foreign (FDI) or local sources (Bajan savings in the bank or the NIS)?
Who really is paying these permanently engaged consultants? The BTII or Maloney?
Maloney must be a rather rich guy loaded with foreign currency stashed away in some overseas account to be footing the cost of these numerous incarnations of the Hyatt design.
I find this whole thing highly amusing. There seems to be no other plan for this island’s development bar tourism. What happens when Cuba opens up fully? There is very little to do in Barbados apart from sea and sun. A lot of destinations have sea and sun. This country is high priced and cannot compete with places like Jamaica and the Dominican Republic. All of the rest of the islands are into tourism also. So it is a case of a lot fighting for piece of a finite pie. It seems that the investment in education in this island has been a waste of time. There seems to be a paucity of original thinkers.
At the risk of repeating an earlier post, is anyone else curious about the plan for “(T)he much needed addition of another world-class conference facility in Barbados”. Minister Kerrie Symmonds recently floated the “possibility that Government could sell the Lloyd Erskine Sandiford Centre (LESC) in the not-too-distant future to its main occupant, the Ross University School of Medicine”. Any possible connection?
@PLT
i note on one plan, the owner of the lot immediately next to the Liquidation Centre is listed as Air Services Inc. I “think” this lot is between Liquidation and the lot of the former Harbour Police?
Keywords
Access to the beach,…..
Don’t forget that phrase
@ Dr. Robert Lucas
You said and I quote
“…There seems to be no other plan for this island’s development bar tourism…”
You prefaced this comment with an understandable “amusement” which, if you are like de ole man means you are grieved, like de ole man is grieved.
You speak to a paucity of vision and de ole man, cloaked in my anonymity heheheheh WILL EXPAND ON THIS IN BRIEF.
provide if you will, examples of contributions made by Trevor Prescod or Johnny Tudor, or patrick Todd, or Teets Marshall or Michael Lashley or…
You get de ole man point about the waste foop brigade that we voters have placed in the hallways of the House of Assembly for 53 years?
We collectively ALL DESERVE THE BULLING WE ARE GETTING! without grease!
De imagery and the act is meant to bring a general hatred to the state of being for the peeple and sheeple readers because de ole man finds that IMPASSIONED REASONED THOUGHT AND COMMENTARY are as useful as artificially inseminating the anus of a bull!
Until people start thinking AND VOTERS START DEMANDING DELIVERABLES, we are going to end up with nuff EMPTY hotels all over the place while we talking bout Bridgetown Regeneration.
But not to worry!
With the 18 floor hotels, those make interesting springboard for economically depressed people to jump from when the reality of economic failure becomes apparent
CAN SOMEONE TELL MADAM PM THAT AMIDST ALL OF THIS THE POOR AND VULNERABLE SUFFERING BAD. IT IS UNBEARABLE. PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING TO GET THE BASIC THINGS NEEDED IN BIM.
@TheoG
I am confident, an access way as was provided through Liquidation center, will be available via the new construction. Do you remember going through the Old Harbour Police station to access Carlisle Bay beach? Or the throngs of Bajans who enter via Shurland Alley, which I am hoping will still exist.
@ Piece
Cut out the obscenities and you make rather interesting points.
Government off in another TAXPAYERS initiative for the benefit of POOR BNOCL employees. BNOCL has to ENERGY division, no dobt this requires an additional 200 to 300 new employees.
https://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/243107/bnocl-launching-photovoltaic-pilot-project-staff
SAME OLD SAME OLD.
@ Hal Austin at 11:03 AM
Piece always make interesting points. Block out the noise and listen for the signals.
@ Piece
I always wonder why someone would build a 10 story building for a small very flat island. After constructing an unproductive edifice, like Judas, are they likely to commit suicide? Very noble .
@ NO
Would sharing a beach with 300 tourists constitute an enjoyable day at the beach for traditional Bajans?
WE HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW TO KEEP THE MAIN THING, THE MAIN THING
IS THE HYATT PROJECT AND THE OTHER PROJECT WITH THE PRETTY DRAWINGS REALLY THE MAIN THING
PLT
Totally agree with the need for a relationship to be established between the street and building. It is not good placemaking as the frontages are inactive and lack human scale. I made the same comments about the Hyatt Centric design. Mitigating against storm surge does not mean retail etc cannot be accommodated at ground floor, just take all sleeping areas on the upper floors.
@ Enuff December 14, 2019 4:34 PM
As a big-up project manager have you ever considered what is going to happen to the heavy vehicular traffic which currently uses that busy “T” junction in and out of Bridgetown daily?
Would the traffic be diverted in order to reduce the noise and vehicular pollution which could pose to be a major irritant to the upscale guests staying at the Hyatt Ziva?
Please take your red blinkers off before attempting to address this rather serious issue.
PS: Here is a clue to assist you:
Why not turn that area into a restricted zone for electric-operated vehicles and pedal cyclists only?
@Dr Lucas. Right on brother. All this free education… to produce lawyers and hotel workers. And then we bragged about punching above our weight. Talk about a cringe-worthy momemt.
Miller
I am not big up anything. My suggestion as I said on the Blue Horizon blog is to reduce car parking and institute some car hire club and or taxi arrangement. The fossil fuel engine is one of the major contributors to carbon emissions; therefore encouraging/facilitating car use, rather than alternative modes of transport such as cycling and walking, by providing excessive car parking is incongruous with a zero carbon emissions agenda. Furthermore, it is an all inclusive hotel so where would guests be driving to and for what, with any regularity? Secondly, a robust delivery and servicing msnagement plan should set out how/when these activities would be undertaken.
@Vincent CodringtonDecember 14, 2019 2:20 PM
I have no idea. The issue will not be whether Bajans will use, rather, to ensure access exists. Da beach is mine? On a reality note, that beach is so large, after access is achieved, a short walk will provide a quieter surrounding. If you don’t like the offering here, go down by the Rum Refinery, that beach is regularly empty, and big. And the Paradise replacement isn’t coming anytime soon.
@ Enuff December 15, 2019 12:46 AM
Enuff, you are missing the gravamen of the issue of concern.
We are focusing not on the vehicles for the use of the guests but those hundreds of fossil-fuel powered vehicles driven daily by the Bajan residents which use that corridor to enter and exit Bridgetown.
The question is whether this large number of vehicles (electric-powered or not) would continue to ‘crawl through’ this noisy section of Bridgetown as they currently do in the morning and evening.
What alternative route into the soon-to-be (again) ‘bustling busy’ Bridgetown would be provided to accommodate the vehicular traffic?
Would you recommend a flyover or parking lots in the sky next to the monument of failure on the Garrison when the horse-powered sport of kings is finally killed off?
@Miller
You read the Traffic Impact Study?
http://www.hyattcarlislebay.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/EIA-Report-Part-7-Traffic-Impact-Study.pdf
It is a very nice document.
@ David December 15, 2019 7:08 AM
You will soon see- by the end of February 2020 the start date for the construction of this redesign and renamed hotel project- if the authorities have been blinded by the ‘science’ of queuing theory and traffic management models prepared by costly consultants ‘engaged’ by the principals behind the hotel project.
.
After all, you have the unbreakable MoT’s assurance of this start date.
We are sure this honourable lad would never mislead parliament, deliberately.
This project has been in the pipeline for too long. While the planning grass is overgrowing the economic horse called Bridgetown is starving, to death.
It’s time to light that torch of approval and show the money to let the economic games of Olympian proportions begin.
Barbados loud mouths all.looking for a piece of the golden pie called Hyatt Ziva might sound off
However nothing gets done until Hyatt says so
Karma is a b.tch
Miller
You are too melodramatic….occasionally. What city is not bustling with noise and traffic? Yuh just on a red herring fishing expedition. But my point about alternative modes of transport other than private car use remains–do not encourage it by providing a mobathon ah parking whether at Ziva or on Broad Street. The future success of TB and public transport as a whole is more than electric buses and disciplined ZR driverscand conductors. In any event, there is the saying that cars expand to fill available roads.
David
Good to see the EIA has been done. I laughed when someone said it is done by businesses connected to Maloney. Who should he hire insread, BU experts?🤣🤣
All I hear are negatives so i would also like to hear what could be done on this site that would be beneficial to Barbados. Not here to agree or disagree with the above comments, just want to hear an alternative.
@ Michael Brace
It is for Barbadians to determine what is best for Barbados. Not foreigners and their local agents. In every culture there is a Judas (or many). Barbadian politics is no different. We have lawyer/politicians who cannot spell economics talking about economic growth.
The problem with this project is the interjection of politics by loud mouths like Commissiong who had plenty negative to say about the project
However from an outside businessperson perspective that being Hyatt
The back and forth politics has doomed the life of the project
Any failure of this project not to ever seeing light of day would be traced back to Commissiong and Mia
In any country society there will be extreme positions. Finding a balance is what sensible and pragmatic people do.
Ouside business observers must be shaking their heads while thinking out loud “only in a banana Republic would a world named brand like Hyatt would be met with such political stagnation and objection
Now present govt tries pulling wool over peoples eyes about a mile long Hotel corridor
Hee hee hee
If Cahill did not damage this project cannot do worse.
But govt promised better
Not worse
David where u think you are going with that assertion
The case being that like Hyatt Cahill was also caught up in political badgering by Mia and carpetbaggers
Hence it demise
Now we see the same players who presented objections to Cahill and Hyatt are now cornered into a position to defend the construction of Hyatt
While i sit and watch how a small island can be caught up in mega politics of stagnation
I also wonder how did we get here while believing it would all end in 😢
Hal
“It is for Barbadians to determine what is best for Barbados.”
Pray tell how is this to be achieved when it comes to development projects? Hold a referendum on each project? Tall building development is a newish concept in Bdos and, expectedly, some people are cautious. Others simply oppose. You are the same person that have argued on this very BU that planning is a political function. A government that is democratically elected should make decisions that are robust and in the best interest of the populace. Being a small island does not negate the construction of tall buildings. Their location, design and use are what matter and the optimisation of land through densification in an urban setting is always the starting point. It is wrong for politicians and lawyers to talk about economic growth but somehow right for a journalist to pontificate on economic growth, urban regeneration, law, development planning and viability and every other thing under the sun. Why do I bother?
It’s amazing. We heard so much about this project when it was going to be ten stories now the same people embracing eighteen.
People who violently opposed the Hyatt and wrote on BU that they were backing the National Trust have now changed course. I will now quote, the change of mouth:
June 25 th 2017
“ Now it maybe clear to everyone why 15 stories is too tall for a building fronting Bay Street.”
March 22nd 2017
“ To hear some bloggers attempt to justify the appropriateness of the Hyatt on the basis of investment is painful. I am behind the National Trust on this one, they clearly recognize that the issue is beyond investment or even EIA.”
The same author December 7 2019:
“Public purpose entails economic development too; and only a fool ,
The clueless , the narrow minded would argue that the regeneration of our capital city of Bridgetown , including tourism- oriented uses , serves no public purpose.”
The same author. Let’s go back to March 22nd 2017:
“ Unfortunately too many Barbadians trivialize (out of ignorance)the importance of getting our built environment right, especially “tall” buildings. The wrong building in the wrong location….. do not enhance the attractiveness of our island as a tourist destination. It is even more crucial in this instance given the location of the site in a designated world heritage city.”
The very same author March 22 2017:
“ Has anyone seen how investment has led to the destruction of Dover Woods to allow Sandals to expand their tax free revenue? I hope when the area starts to flood and the monkeys tek over the properties in Dover, we trumpet investment…..”
Well as the old people say: Mouth is open and story is jump out.
Trust the cool aid. Trust BU.
The Duopoly Rules
Ha. Ha. Don’t these frustraters feel stupid now
The long and short being that Mia and their goons did not want to see the dlp be the first to make good on a promise that the blp had made to the people in their fourteen year reign
A promise of developing the bay street bridgetown annex which never happened
Hence all the noise makers along with Comissiong to blow smoke in the peoples face
However Karma is a b.tch and now more lies upon lies would be told to get the Hyatt project off the ground which will be a long shot until Hyatt agrees to the model presented by the developer
Enuff at 10: 55 AM
Town and Country Planning is a science/ craft. It is not the preserve of the business tycoon nor the politician. These are major changes in our built environment and the majority of citizens must feel confident with the changes. The vehicle is not referendum but open town Hall meetings. Stop the trope. Barbados is not about the highest bidder.
VC
There will be a townhall, if not Commissiong will challenge according to newspaper reports. But do townhall meetings truly capture the will of Barbadians as Hal is requesting? Your view and definition of development planning and the role of the developer and regulator is obsolescent. It is rooted in the old maxim of development control, rather than development management. Why? Because governments have realised that planning without implementation is useless and implementation relies on private sector investment, which requires a facilitative approach on the part of the regulator and flexibility from all parties. Being facilitative and flexibile does not mean unlawful. It is useful to understand that T&C planning in the Barbadian conext and many other places, like Hal’s homeland, is a flexible and discretionary exercise. No one even talks about T&C planning anymore as it is too focused on the physical and ignores the DELIVERY. Do you know that in Hal’s neck of the woods, elected Councillors make the final decision on applications whether in support of or against the recommendation of the professionals?
@Michael Brace
All I hear are negatives so i would also like to hear what could be done on this site that would be beneficial to Barbados.
++++++++++++
For that you are now on Santa’s naughty list
Don’t know how long you’ve been paying attention to this topic and if you have you will realize that some who were against it are now for it and some who were for it are now against it (where have we heard that before), even the prime opponent has been rendered mute (or is it moot) by the politics of inclusion 2018 edition. What are the options? Gov’t will do what Gov’ts do and that is to try to enhance its electoral prospects and so far amongst any “good” news announcements there has not been a shovel in the ground and if this project gets off the ground that mission would have been accomplished.
We only have one chance to get it right either we designate the area as part of a public park to replace some of the disappeared windows to the sea or we design and construct a complex that Bajans can be proud of, the studies and assessments have been completed, the ball is in the Gov’t’s court and we know how it will be serv(ed)ing.
Enuff
DELIVERY?
What are you delivering?
And to whom?
Is this a new form of dictatorship? In what sense do you know more than I what I want? Government in a democracy is about the people. Those who make decisions must do so in the peoples interest. We did not elect people to enslave us. There must always be a connect between the people and what the people want. Your arrogance is over powering .
@Vincent
What an idealist you seem to be. The government will make decisions as it sees fit with an eye to winning the next election. This is all that motivates the modern day political class. The modern day electorate is duped every time.
@ Sargeant
That’s the real problem. That’s why one should not be drawn into debate, with those who only see issues only through their party’s lens. This political sychophancy is killing the country. The only hope is that while the Duopoly continues to mash up de country, is that somewhere in between , the poor working class , at least get jobs to save their dignity. That’s why I am supporting all the capital projects both private and public because i know that at least some citizen will carry home a cheque and put food on their tables. AS pathetic as this sounds, its the only poistion I can take with these abusive party miscreants from both sides.
I would like those who oppose Sandals to visit the area and see people who look like them getting to work. Remember how the women used to head off to the indsutrial parks? As @ WURA says this is the same model and the apologists are the same but in the meantime children need to go to school and the Duopoly driving six cylinder SUV’s. That’s why holding up the project in St. Peter is pure political brinksmanship. This guy Maloney was the worst thing a few months ago and now he is a bigger god around here. Yet the poor people on the west coast waiting on stupidness to get jobs. Construction workers and others begging fuh wuk while backroom deals getting work out.
When the Hyatt starts and I see people who look like me getting a piece ah wuk , I know this will save them embarassment and social marginalization for a while. Note that Butch Stuart don’t get cuss no more and all the fuss about concessions done fuh now. Same talk about Sam Lords that getting work out as well. Problems with the BWA and Inotech that getting work out.
Read this morning that the government is going to fight CAHILL over the legal ranglings from the last administration. All the corruption talk fading and the game goes on and on. Even the once Mighty Owen Arthur is” very busy” with the party that lost its soul and happy with some “unfit despot”. At least one former member of the last administration is now a consultant ( and I don’t mean Mascoll) in a high profile ministry.
And with all of this evidence of: collusion , duplicity and complicity, @ Hal from Englan’ still battling political paling cocks and hens.
The Duopoly Rules
What is holding up the Sandals Beaches project William?
@ David
What is holding up the Sandals Beaches project William?
You tell me what your answer is I was very clear what I thought. I said: ” That’s why holding up the project in St. Peter is pure political brinksmanship.”
On this occasion , you may have the last word on this issue.
Ha
Ha.
Spot on William
@William
In other words you do not ‘now. Fair enough.
Ha. Ha David yuh funny
@ David Bu at 1:24 Pm
Those of us with a purpose in life have ideals and we work towards achieving those ideals.
To suggest that politics is about winning the next election devalues the purpose of politics.
It is now clear to me what some bloggers hope to achieve by their submissions. Their mission is not pursuit of knowledge , truth and good governance. Some are poor ambassadors of their parties and should not be allowed to misinform the public.
@Vincent
This is the Everest that confronts some of us.
@ Enuff December 15, 2019 8:20 AM
The Miller will cease with his ‘pragmatically-searching’ queries when the source(s) of finance is revealed like how all the other design and planning aspects of this massive project have been exposed to the sunlight of authenticity.
What is so secretive about the lifeblood of this project? After al, US $175 million investment (a 75% increase in its original economic impact) is nothing to scoff at in terms of the Bajan economy.
Every red and blue blooded Bajan wants to see this project get off the ground and is eagerly awaiting its expansionary economic impact on the Capital and the wider commercial Barbados.
So are you going to ‘justify’ another deferral to its long awaited construction start date of February 2020 or will there be another excuse to justify its dreamland stillbirth?
If you can play, in Pauline fashion, the role of Chief of PR for this project of Babel-like controversy and confusion why can’t there be a role for a ‘doubting’ Thomas demanding to see the wounds of financial execution to balance out this zero-sum game of only consultancy fees coming through the imaginary investment pipeline for the past 5 or more years?
Here is an easy project of a simple puzzle for you to complete:
Formula:
Asset(s) = Liabilities + Owner(s) Equity.
Provide the missing numbers to replace the question marks:
US $ 175 million = $ ??? + $ ???
A well planned, finished & furnished Hyatt Ziva fit for well-heeled foreign guests = ????+ ????.
@VC
Those of us with a purpose in life have ideals and we work towards achieving those ideals.
To suggest that politics is about winning the next election devalues the purpose of politics.
+++++++++++++
Are you a candidate for sainthood? Could you remember a time when a Bajan Parliamentarian resigned as a matter of principle?
VC
Arrogance? Where, how? First thing, I am no fan of townhall meetings. I don’t even like the name and I believe there are better ways to engage with the public. The act of putting the EIA online is a far, far better process and as a matter of fact ALL the application docs should be available on the TPD website and the public allowed to comment. That is engagement and proper consultation. Secondly, until you and others recognise that maximising public benefit is the ultimate goal of development planning, this discussion will go nowhere. For example, read the write up on the proposed Hyatt and note the substantial public benefits to be DELIVERED apart from the standard jobs. Have you ever heard of a project contributing to the DELIVERY public infrastructure? This is what I mean when I talk about development management v development control. Discretionary, facilitative and flexible vs rigidity and contentious.
Miller
Why are you asking me about financing? I am not the developer or associated with the developer. I am not the government or associated with the government. I am simply commenting on the principle of building a hotel on Bay Street.
VC
I wonder who misinforming the public? I guess mirrors absent from many a BU contributor household.🤣🤣🤣
@ Enuff December 16, 2019 8:55 AM
“Why are you asking me about financing? I am not the developer or associated with the developer. I am not the government or associated with the government. I am simply commenting on the principle of building a hotel on Bay Street.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Who in principle, like you in your right mind, would object, ‘principally’, to the building of a hotel on Bay Street?
After all, that area has been earmarked for the past 25 years for exactly that purpose as part of the programme of the regeneration of Bridgetown and its rundown environs.
The problem, my dreamy friend, is one of transforming the plan into real(i)ty.
And that can only be achieved through the availability of money; whether through FDI or local financing in Bajan Mickey mouse dollars backed by a huge increase in the country’s foreign reserves to support the inevitable outflows arising from the construction and furnishing of such a (in Bajan tourism size) relatively large hotel.
Where is the forex going to come from?
The sale of the Hilton or the Sam Lord Wyndham or the Blue Horizon or the Four Seasons fiasco to refund Andrew Lloyd Webber?
How about the sale of the BWA and the CLICO properties to people with foreign money?
Q Where is the forex going to come from?
A FROM KENYA & GHANA & THE GATHERERS
It is now over six hours that people in parts of Christ Church have not had any water. So far no BWA workers have even spoken to them. What is going on in Barbados? I am sure this is not happening in the upmarket parts of St James. Where is the prime minister?
Miller
Tell VC et al about delivery not me. You continue to mix matters–two different dishes even if the same meal.
Hal
Hush! When last have you even been to Bim? Talking nonsense about class.
@ Enuff December 17, 2019 12:26 AM
Hasn’t the same imaginary Hyatt been an object of creativity for numerous design changes and costings; moving from an original estimate of US$ 100 million to a most recent estimate of US$ 175 million?
You are more political naïve than originally thought.
Can’t you understand the sine qua non of finance in order to appreciate the economic and social impact such an investment would have on the Bajan comatose landscape?
Haven’t you heard about the multiplier effect especially in a small economic space as Barbados badly in need of an economic blood transfusion to find work for idle hands especially among the young males?
Enuff of the posturing and get on with the deliverables.
We want to see a hotel with real guests; not a talk shop of a conman’s imagination and a circus for political puppeteering.
Let us see if there will be another Coverley in the City or Dalkeith Woods on the Bay without government’s direct financial support.
Hotel workers to take care of visitors, What about having enough train nurses and nurses aids, to take care of our people.
How many buildings are they going start and leave unfinish.
The beach is large and unkept, very dirty , the sand is dead, that is why it is regularly empty.
what about the road construction in St. Andrew, is it all about visitors?
The Empire theater should have been refurbish years ago.
Why not build a hospital that is more accessible to the people in the north..
Do not let the monkeys take over Dover, place the homeless there with supervision and meals.
The city homes need to be refurbish, these are the things that government should look into, some still have pit toilets. {or rebuilt]
When it comes to town hall meetings, the lawyer Thorne was given a cheque for $500.00. to represent an old lady, he cash the cheque and denied he took it, it was given to him at Wesley Hall boy school ,his signature on the back.. he was taken to the Bar Ass but as usual nothing was done.
t
some one ask ,”where is the prime minister” playing golf. Independence square need power washing very very bad..