The news two women died last month soon after giving birth at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital (QEH) should be of concern to all Barbadians. While these two maternal deaths were widely reported in the mainstream media there have been many others that have been kept hush hush in recent years. In the interest of transparency we are asking the QEH authorities to explain why two women are dead who should be home nursing their babies.
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@David, our maternal mortality rate was an issue I flagged in an article on our HDI performance a while back. It is no where near as bad as Haiti, Cuba or T&T but at a ratio of 52 maternal deaths per 100,000 births that is high for a high income country. My condolences to the families of these two ladies though, especially to their little ones who will have to grow up without their mothers.
How is this ratio calculated and how does it adjust for improvements over time. Two maternal deaths in close proximity to each other are clearly a cause of concern, but absent clear and well established negligence on the part of the practitioners or administration at our major trauma center in these two instances we should be cautious in concluding that sin has occurred.
@BMcDonald, Agreed, I wasn’t suggesting negligence nor was I laying blame. I was simply pointing out that it is an area for concern and one which the authorities need to look at. The report includes details on their methodology.
@Alicia while 52 per 100,000 is the expected death rate in maternity deaths we do not have the actual figures of the number of women who died at the QEH in recent times. I believe this information should be made public. There may very well be a growing trend that needs to be diagnosed and corrected.
The answer is simple, the QEH is a very nasty place that is badly in need of cleaning. As a result of Government cutbacks the hospital has to make do with what it gets and cleanliness suffers. In addition, the Government has saddled the hospital with a lot of unnecessary staff that helps to eat away at the funds.
Too many people go to the hospital with one ailment, get cured and die from some hospital acquired infection. The problem has reached the stage where they might be forced to demolish the QEH because the drug resistant bacteria have taken over the place. Where possible, surgeons discharge their friends from the recovery room in order to keep them out of the nasty wards.
There is a bigger story to be told about the two maternal deaths, we urge those in the know to share
Who is listening to Ellis responding about the two maternal deaths? Instead of getting up of his ass and investigate why two women died after childbirth in a tight tight line hour is spouting bullshit from reports that are not aligned to the issue of what the current state of conditions at the QEH .
BU bullshitters at it again without the facts or knowledge of the possible causes of post partum deaths. Hilarious!
@Heather, I have no idea if data on the number of maternal deaths per year, the age ranges of those women who died, cause of death etc is available publicly. I have not found any so far and as such I relied on the ratio published in the HDI. I agree that data should be public because it would allow us to assess the level and complexity of the problem. Unfortunately we know access to data is a chronic problem here.
@David and Caswell, without doubt the QEH has serious issues and I have heard more than my fair share of horror stories. Naturally two maternal deaths in such a short space of time is a cause for concern. However, until we are apprised of all the facts, declaring that the deaths were as a result of negligence by the QEH is speculation. Other factors have to be considered such as whether the women had any preexisting conditions that may have predisposed them to complications in childbirth etc…
David, I completely agree that a thorough investigation needs to be done and the findings released and where negligence was found to have occurred the families such be justly compensated and preventative action taken to minimise a reoccurence. Whether this will happen is another matter….
@Alicia
There is a disturbing story making the rounds connected with the two maternal deaths last month. Let us keep asking questions
@David, I haven’t heard the story making the rounds.
For once I agree with Georgie Porgie. We are not in possession of the requisite facts or knowledge. Many conditions can cause occurrences such as these and we should wait for further information before we start speculating.
is it not true that women have been dying in childbearing for time immemorial?
are we saying that no woman should die in childbearing today, or at the QEH?
is it at all possible that the deaths of the women could have been caused by their own negligence?
do hospital aquired infections only occur at QEH
CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN THE ” methodology” OF A DEATH IN PARTURITION?
RE we do not have the actual figures of the number of women who died at the QEH in recent times. I believe this information should be made public. There may very well be a growing trend that needs to be diagnosed and corrected………….diagnosed and corrected BY WHOM. TH PUBLIC?
ARE drug resistant bacteria ONLY TO BE FOUND AT QEH? OR IS THIS A WORLDWIDE PROBLEM?
what is the bigger story to be told about the two maternal deaths?
RE I agree that data should be public because it would allow us to assess the level and complexity of the problem. HOW? WHO IS US?
WHEN THERE HAVE BEEN / ARE MATERNAL DEATHS AT HAVE THERE NOT BEEN ” a thorough investigation done”
WHO SHOULD ” the findings released” to?
While some of you wait others will ask questions. There is a woman who died last year because of negligence by the surgeon slicing an organ. This info never made it to public for all the reasons we know already.
@Alicia
There is some legal steps being taken and BU is hesitant to post additional info at this time.
instead of the usual emotional bullshitting and daily drivel that characterizes the BU rum shop can not the BU brimblers go online and educate themselves before they efflux the standard daily bovine excrement?
here is a good xample
http://healthandrights.ccnmtl.columbia.edu/reproductive_health/causes_maternal_mortality.html
@David, I take your point. Just as clarification, I wasn’t suggesting that we should not ask questions. I was just saying that there may have been other factors that may be at play so we shouldn’t jump to conclusions without having all the facts. A point which Georgie Porgie above evidently missed in my previous submissions.
lets just say that the commonest cause of problems in the labour room at QEH is women turning up for delivery WITHOUT EVERY HAVEING GONE FOR ANTENATAL CARE ANYWHERE
LET THE MORONS ASK QUESTIONS BUT WHAT INTELLIGENT QUESTIONS CAN THEY ASK WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE IN THIS CASE OR KNOWLEDGE OF THE FACTS OF THE TWO CASES
READ THE ARTICLE ABOVE AND NOW YOU CAN ASK ENLIGHTENED QUESTIONS
ONE MEMORABLE CASE I SAW AS AN INTERN AT QEH WAS DUE TO DIC- DISSEMINATED INTRAVASCULAR COAGULATION. THIS IS WHEN THE CLOTTING SYSTEM IS AT VARIANCE WITH ITS SELF
The negligence at the QEH will always affect the poor mostly,Surgeons are getting their private patients/friends out the QEH as fast as their could ,Barbados is in such a state today,the questions must be ask, who head the investigation, who the findings are released to ?
WATCHMAN YOU CAN HEAD THE INVESTIGATIONS OR W CAN RELEASE THE FINDINGS TO YOU
NOW TELL ME WHAT YOU WILL ASK AND LOOK FOR.
HAVE YOU READ TH ARTICLE I CITED?
BARE SPORT IN THE RUM SHOP TODAY
COME OUT HERD COME OUT
Speaking generally now, one cannot deny that our health care system has serious challenges. It is a wellknown fact that those who can afford to tend to avoid the QEH and polyclinics wherever possible. That says a lot about the perceived standard of care.
Speaking generally now, aNTENATAL AND POSTNATAL CARE AT THE POLYCLINICS IS VERY GOOD AND COSTS NOTHING TO THE CONSUMER BUT SOME of thier TIME
Speaking generally nowIN BARBADOS, WE LOVE TO BERATE OUR HEALTH CARE WHICH IS READILY AVAILABLE COMPARATIVELY SPEAKING AND WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE.
IN FL IT IS NOT THAT EASY TO SEE A DR EVEN WITH HEALTH INSURANCE
THE ISSUE IN THIS DISCUSSION HAS TO DO WITH MATERNAL HEALTH CARE…..STICK TO THE TOPIC
TWO WOMEN DEAD AT QEH AT PARTURITION AND EVABODY READY TO TALK SHITE BOUT WHAT THEY KNOW ABSOLUTELY NUTTIN ABOUT. HILARIOUS
AND THEY ASKING QUESTIONS BUT THY DONT KNOW WHAT QUESTIONS TO ASK HILARIOUS
@Georgie Porgie, your comments are highly insensitive to those who have either experienced or have had loved ones who have died because of poor treatment in our public health care system. Furthermore, the notion that Barbadians have no right to critique the flaws in our health care system or express concern about the deaths of two mothers simply because other countries have worse problems is devoid of logic and is symptomatic of the mediocrity we seem to want to accept as the status quo. I would hope that none of your loved ones would never have to endure the shabby and subpar treatment too many well less off Barbadians have to endure daily at our “world class” public health institutions.
@GP
Do you think the people who run this blog are idiots?
How long will the QEH investigations last into these 2 deaths.
Georgie Porgie is not at all highly insensitive to those who have either experienced or have had loved ones who have died because of poor treatment in our public health care system.
It seems that you have not read what I wrote, or you do not understand what I said.
The issue here is about two recent maternal deaths at QEH. Also we do not know that these two women ” died because of poor treatment in our public health care system.”
I can not see how Barbadians can properly critique the flaws in our ANTENATAL AND PERINATAL CARE when they know little if anything about the subject.
I have gone as far as to supply information on the topic, and to cite relevant cases that I witnessed.
By all means “express concern about the deaths of two mothers” but do so with common sense and knowledge of the facts or the possible scenarios involved.
Re “ simply because other countries have worse problems is devoid of logic and is symptomatic of the mediocrity we seem to want to accept as the status quo” is just a load of bull shit. BECAUSE WE HAVE GOOD ANTENATAL AND CHILD HEALTH CARE OFFERD VIA THE POLYCLINICS, IF OUR WOMEN CHOSE TO AVAIL THEMSELVES OF THE SAME.
Georgie Porgie never said that we had “world class” public health institutions.
.
Georgie Porgie knows what he is talking about here.OK
NOw you may go back to your mark and run in a gain, and bowl line and length and on one side of the wicket, and lave out the emotion and the rhethoric
We all know that the standard of care at the QEH has been compromised by a lack of funds. We all know that some doctors and other staff are not as good or as caring or careful as they should be. But we mustn’t assume negligence. We must have facts. If there are stories making the rounds an investigation is in order. There are avenues that should be open to those who have been wronged. Let us support them if these avenues are closed to them by the powers that be. Before we do that an investigative piece should be available.
Well Well & Consequences January 15, 2016 at 2:36 PM #
How long will the QEH investigations last into these 2 deaths.
how long do you think they should last?
there will be a post mortem to start
there will be a clinico-pathological conference but it will not be attended by carribeantradelaw and other BU obstetric illiterates
I went out of my way to post a list of direct and indirect causes of maternal deaths
The patients notes are examined in the light of established current obstetric practices, not by rhetoric and emotion as is the norm on BU
Have no truck with GP unless 1)you are licensed to dispense knowledge of human biology and 2) you are prepared to accept his unfettered knowledge of the ‘written word’.
All else,be insulted and dismissed for even your modicum of applied common sense.
ALL MATERNAL DEATHS IN A TEACHING HOSPITAL LIKE QEH ARE INVESTIGATED…….ALL
THIS HAS BEEN THE NORM BEFORE THE EXISTENCE OF BU WHICH ALLOWS EVABODY TO WASH THEY MOUT BOUT THINGS THEY KNOW NUTTIN BOUT
RE Gabriel January 15, 2016 at 2:59 PM #
Have no truck with GP unless 1)you are licensed to dispense knowledge of human biology and 2) you are prepared to accept his unfettered knowledge of the ‘written word’.
All else,be insulted and dismissed for even your modicum of applied common sense.
GOOD IDEA
BUT TELL ME WHERE I AM WRONG
TELL ME WHERE I HAVE NOT TOLD IT AS IT IS
I HAVE GIVEN THE unfettered knowledge of the CAUSES OF MATERNAL DEATHS AND HAVE STATED WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS
I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY modicum of applied common sense APPLIED ONLY THE USUAL BU RHETORIC AND EMOTION BY FOLK WHO TALKING BOUT WHAT THEY DONT KNOW NUTTIN BOUT.
WHEN I COME ON BU I TALK BOUT WHAT I KNOW
QUID DIXI SCRIPSIQUE, DIXI SCRIPSIQUE,
BEAR SPORT IN THE RUM SHOP WID DE HERD
@Georgie Porgie, For someone who is apparently so highly educated, you may want to make your rebuttals to persons who disagree with you in a more mature manner (i.e. minus the expletives and name calling). I have no intention to waste my time engaging in any petty back and forth with you. Have a blessed day.
David January 15, 2016 at 2:33 PM #
@GP
Do you think the people who run this blog are idiots?
I DONT REALLY KNOW NOR DO I PARTICULARLY CARE
I DO NOT SEE HOW THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE INFORMATION AND ARGUMENTS I HAVE BROUGHT ON THE SUBJECT
I DO NOT SEE HOW THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE REASONS WHY TWO WOMEN HAVE DIED IN CHILD BEARING AT QEH
caribbeantradelaw January 15, 2016 at 3:10 PM #
@Georgie Porgie, For someone who is apparently so highly educated, you may want to make your rebuttals to persons who disagree with you in a more mature manner (i.e. minus the expletives and name calling). I have no intention to waste my time engaging in any petty back and forth with you. Have a blessed day.
I AM HAVING A BLESSED DAY MOCKING THE TRIPE YOU ARE SERVING UP HERE IN THE RUM SHOP
I HAVE USED NO EXPLETIVES SIR AND AN OBSTETRIC ILLITERATE IS JUST THAT- AN OBSTETRIC ILLITERATE
GO AND READ THE ARTICLE I POSTED AND SEE IF YOU CAN LEARN SOMETHING INSTEAD OF COMING HERE PONTIFICATING ON THINGS YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT
YOU DONT SEE ME COME HERE AND ARGUE WITH THE LAWYERS OR THE ECONOMISTS OR THE ACCOUNTANTS OR THE TRADE UNIONISTS
I SAY IT AGAIN WITH OUT FEAR OF CONTRADICTION BU bullshitters ARE at it again without the facts or knowledge of the possible causes of post partum deaths. Hilarious!
IT IS WELL DOCUMENTED HERE ON BU SINCE 2008 THAT I HAVE SHOWN HOW CARE AT THE QEH CAN AND OUGHT TO BE ENHANCED BY CARE IN THE PERIPHERAL CLINICS
WHAT I CITED THEN IS NOT JUST THEORY
I HAVE SEEN IT IN ACTION AND ACTUALLY BENEFITTED FROM CARE IN ST LUCIA BASED ON MY IDEAS
@Alicia
Hypothetically if a pregnant woman goes to the bathroom unattended and it takes a while for duty nurses to realise and in the process something bad happens and the baby has to be taken as a result , it that negligence in your opinion?
@Alicia
Agree, for some to be bombastic is the way to go. Life is too short to raise ones pressure to respond to immature rantings.
David January 15, 2016 at 3:37 PM #
@Alicia
Agree, for some to be bombastic is the way to go. Life is too short to raise ones pressure to respond to immature rantings.
ALICIA IS TALKING SHITE ALL DAY ABOUT A MATTER THAT SHE KNOWS LITTLE ABOUT AND PRETENDING THAT SHE IS WELL READ———BUT IT IS CLEAR THAT SHE IS NOT
i just smacked her up and down lose bowling to the boundalee! murdah
MY IMMATURE RANTINGS IS THE ONLY FACTUAL AND RELEVANT ISSUES ON THIS BLOG.
WHY DONT YOU ACCUSE YOUR FRIENDS AND FAVORITES OF BOMBASTE TOO?
POOR ALICIA HAS TO RUN BECAUSE SHE CAN NOT DEBATE WITH ME ABOUT ISSUES ABOUT WHICH I KNOW WELL……ah lie?
Your rantings are just that, rantings. You have no idea the details about the two maternal deaths at the QEH in December, none!
@WELL WELL, CAUSE I RESPECT YOU. SO I PUT THIS TO YOU
WHAT IS NEEDED HERE IS A PLAN- A WORKING OUTLINE THAT WILL DETERMINE THE RELEVANT QUESTIONS TO PURSUE
A HISTORY IS TAKEN FROM THE NOTES TH PRESENTATION OF THE PATIENT TO LABOUR WARD ETC
QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE PRE NATAL PREPARATION
2 QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE IMMEDIATE SITUATION – FIRST FEW HOURS
3 QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE INTERMEDIATE SITUATION – 6 HRS TO I-2 DAYS
4 QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE LATE SITUATION – AFTER 3 DAYS
HOW DO THESE FINDINGS RELATE TO POST MORTEM FINDINGS AND VICE VERSA
WERE THE CAUSES DIRECT OR INDIRECT
DO THE KNOWN CAUSES LISTED IN THE TEXTS OF CONTEMPORARY ACCEPTED PRACTICE INVOLVED
OTHER CAUSES? BUT NOT EMOTION AND IGNORANT RANTS BY THE UNLEARNED
David January 15, 2016 at 3:53 PM #
Your rantings are just that, rantings. You have no idea the details about the two maternal deaths at the QEH in December, none!
I HAVE no idea the details about the two maternal deaths at the QEH in December, none!
BUT I KNOW THAT THEY CANT BE NOTHING NEW THAT HAS NOT BEEN SEEN AT QEH OR ANYWHERE ELSE BEFORE
I SUGGEST TO YOU THAT HAVING NOT BEEN THERE THAT I COULD PUT A BETTER INVESTIGATION TOGETHER THAN YOU OR ANY OF YOUR FAVORITES WHO HAVE NOT SAID ANYTHING OF WORTH HERE TODAY
IF YOU HAVE THE DETAILS GIVE US THE DETAILS AND YOUR PROFESSIONAL OPINION OF WHAT WENT WRONG AND HOW AND WHY
GIVE US OF YOUR GREAT OBSTETRIC KNOWLEDGE SIR
I AM WILLING TO LEARN
@David, I completely agree re your 3:37PM comment.
It’s hard to give a definitive answer to your question without knowing all the facts, although the claim could definitely be brought.
From a legal standpoint, to prove negligence four things must be proven (a) a legal duty existed, (b) there was a breach of that legal duty because of an act or omission (c) damage occurred because of that act or omission (d) the damage caused was reasonably foreseeable. In the facts you presented, there is of course a duty as nurses owe a duty of care to their patients and the argument can be made that failure by the nurses to attend to the patient as she went to the bathroom was a breach of that duty and there was damage as a result. The tricky issue would come with whether that damage i.e. loss of the child was reasonably foreseeable.
The defence would likely raise the issue of contributory negligence. Did the patient by her own actions contribute to the damage caused? Should the patient have waited until she could have been attended to. Did she defy orders to only go to bathroom once accompanied.
All of those are factors that would be considered.
@Alicia
Point noted however th issue in the hypothetical issue raised is that the child survived, the mother died.
David
Oh learned one who can recognize rants TELL US THE PATHOPHYSIOLOGY BEHIND THE DEATHS OF THE TWO WOMEN
TEACH US
GIVE US OF YOUR GREAT OBSTETRIC KNOWLEDGE SIR
@David, any seemingly unnatural death which occurs while under medical care could be a basis for a claim of negligence. But there would be many factors the court would consider in determining whether there was a causal link between the damage (i.e. the patient’s death) and the defendant’s act or omission, including the patient’s medical history. Truth is though that many of those cases tend to be settled out of court instead of litigated. Turning to the issue of the two women, if the investigations reveal that negligence may have been the cause and not other factor, it’s likely they’ll be settled.
David January 15, 2016 at 4:11 PM #
@Alicia
Point noted however th issue in the hypothetical issue raised is that the child survived, the mother died.
the child survived…….THE PATIENT WHO WAS MOST VULNERABLE SURVIVED
SO THEN WE ARE BACK TO THE CAUSES OF MATERNAL DEATHS
DID THE MOTHER HAVE DIC?
WAS SHE ANAEMIC?
DID SHE HAVE PRE-ECLAMPSIA
what QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE PRE NATAL PREPARATION MUST WE ASK
WHAT QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE IMMEDIATE SITUATION – FIRST FEW HOURS MUST WE ASK
WHAT QUESTIONS QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE INTERMEDIATE SITUATION – 6 HRS TO I-2 DAYS
WHAT QUESTIONS QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE LATE SITUATION – AFTER 3 DAYS
HOW DO THESE FINDINGS RELATE TO POST MORTEM FINDINGS AND VICE VERSA
WERE THE CAUSES DIRECT OR INDIRECT
DO THE KNOWN CAUSES LISTED IN THE TEXTS OF CONTEMPORARY ACCEPTED PRACTICE INVOLVED
OTHER CAUSES? BUT NOT EMOTION AND IGNORANT RANTS BY THE UNLEARNED
GP…..what is being said in news reports is that family members for one female is lòoking at suing, so ì gùess we do havè to wait for autopsy results and investigations.
The QEH is known to settle many cases out of court and several others go by the way side because of a passive people. When the dust settles it must be tested in court.
The Barbados Today published an article to support the subject.
http://www.barbadostoday.bb/2016/01/15/dr-agard-calls-attention-to-national-health-situation/.
this is what apparently happened from the history given by the pseudo-obstetrician David
the lady went to the bathroom because she experienced that urge
her “waters” broke with A PROLAPSED CORD OR PLACENTA PREVIA (THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED EVEN IF SHE WAS ATTENDED)
THIS NECESSITATED A C-SECTION
IN SUCH CIRCUMSTANCES TO DELIVER A HEALTHY BABY WAS A VERY GOOD OUTCOME
MOTHER DIED
CRY OF NEGLIGENCE…………….FOR WHAT? THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED AT HOME AND BOTH BABY AND CHILD WOULD HAVE BEEN LOST
THIS BRINGS US BACK TO THE TITLE OF THE BLOG HOW DID TWO WOMEN DIED AT QEH (IN CHILDBEARING)
THE CAUSE IS IN THE LIST I CITED EARLIER TODAY
THERE ENDS MY RANT………….AFTER ALL I HAVE SAID TODAY ARE RANTS
BARE MOCK SPORT IN THE RUM SHOP
rE The QEH is known to settle many cases out of court and several others go by the way side because of a passive people. THIS HAPPENS AL OVER THE WORLD
The Barbados Today published an article to support the subject. DR AGARD SHOULD STICK TO PULLING TEETH
Well Well & Consequences January 15, 2016 at 4:42 PM #
GP…..what is being said in news reports is that family members for one female is lòoking at suing, so ì gùess we do havè to wait for autopsy results and investigations.
ANYONE CAN SUE
WHAT I HAVE BEEN “ranting” about IS HOW WOMEN DIE IN CHILD BIRTH whETHER BECAUSE OF NEGLIGENCE OR NOT
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