← Back

Your message to the BLOGMASTER was sent

Jeff Cumberbatch - New Chairman of the FTC
Jeff Cumberbatch – New Chairman of the FTC

As the excesses of the Christmas Day just past recede in the national consciousness, we prepare this week to welcome in 2016. At the close of this year, there seems to be a popular consensus that the local economy is on the up, although this assertion remains unsupported on most occasions by any evidence, persuasive or at all.

I suppose a healthy optimism is in itself a Very Good Thing, although the more cautious among us would wish for more authoritative empirical proof of this most fortunate event.

In this, the final column for 2015, I propose to touch on some matters across the region, fully cognizant of the risk that I may be accused by some of the citizens of those states of interference in their national affairs. That is, of course, provided they disagree with my views, as the Ambassador of the European Union would have discovered recently when he dared to offer an opinion on corporal punishment that differed radically from the antediluvian views of some locals who will not be swayed one jot or tittle from their simplistic and fundamentalist literalism that the “rod” in Proverbs 13:34 sounds too much like the “tambrin” (tamarind) rod, a favoured instrument for the parental infliction of pain in my youth, to mean anything else.

Clearly, the Ambassador’s opinion would be considered interference only because it conflicts with theirs; readers will recall that there was no such allegation against former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan when he cryptically, but supposedly flatteringly, claimed that Barbados punched above its weight in international fora.

It might have ever been thus. Chafed at criticism of the policy of racial segregation operative in Alabama some years ago, the then Governor George Wallace is reported to have said, “We shall continue to maintain segregation in Alabama completely and absolutely without violence or ill-will…We ask for patience and tolerance and make an earnest request that we be allowed to handle state and local affairs without outside interference…” The patent distinction here, of course, is that the Governor was far more gracious in his disagreement than the locals.

In any event, the accusation of external interference leveled at Mr. seems particularly misplaced given the context in which His Excellency spoke. As I have been urging for some time, the issue of state sovereignty should scarcely arise in a circumstance where the critical issue is compliance with the provisions of a voluntarily ratified international treaty, unless the accusers are prepared to argue that we possess the geopolitical clout to be international floutlaws of sacred global pacts. I am almost certain that this is not what Mr. Annan meant by “punching above our weight”.

When is a year nine months only?

I was intrigued by a report in the Barbados Advocate on Tuesday last week that Justice Errol Thomas of the Dominica High Court had called on prison authorities to stop what he called “the unlawful practice of reducing prison sentences without the authority of the court”. It may be widely known that the prison year is commonly thought of as a period of nine, instead of the calendar twelve, months.

In response to the assertion of the Superintendent of Prisons that “on arrival at the prison, the convicted person is given a one-third reduction to the sentence that is re-imposed only for misbehaviour during his time there”, the learned judge posited, “The only person authorized to reduce a sentence is the judge. No prison judge or officer has the right to reduce any sentence as soon as a prisoner enters the prison…it’s unlawful…that cannot be right…You are undermining the judgment of the court…” The Superintendent’s appeal to custom and practice –“it’s been happening for 31 years …if it’s a bad practice, it [has been] bad long time…” availed nothing. Thomas J reiterated his point about its unlawfulness.

I am not aware whether the matter has as yet been satisfactorily resolved in Dominica, but it is a nice point. I also do not know whether the identical position obtains there, but in Barbados the Prison Rules 1974, made under the Prisons Act, Cap 168, provides for the lawfulness of this procedure. According to rule 41, where relevant, “…arrangements shall be made by which a prisoner who is serving a sentence of imprisonment whether by one sentence or by consecutive sentences, for a period exceeding one month… may by good conduct and industry become eligible for discharge when a portion of his sentence not exceeding one-fourth of the whole sentence has yet to run…”

There would thus seem to be some lacunae in the popular thought. First, the sentence does not appear to be commuted, as the Dominican prison official claimed, “upon arrival at the prisons”, but rather it appears that a decision has to be made, at the time when at least three-quarters of the sentence has been served, as to whether the remaining period should be commuted or not. This is dependent upon “good conduct and industry” having been exhibited by the prisoner during his sojourn there.

Further, contrary to the view of the learned judge that it undermines the judgment of the court, it seems rather to be a matter of constitutional jurisdiction. While the court sentences the convicted person to a period on imprisonment; the prison authorities are empowered to determine the precise extent of that period. The current arrangement would appear to contemplate an inbuilt remission of sentence, although this is conditional on the prisoner’s good behaviour and industry.

Where a similar statute applies, and the sentencing court feels strongly enough about the issue, the necessary mathematical calculation will have to be effected by the judicial officer. Since one prison year may eventually be nine (9) months, then, in order to ensure a convicted person actually serves a total of five (5) years, the formally imposed sentence should be at least seven (7) years. Interesting!

Who is entitled to the Myrie benefits?

Recent reports about the substantial fiscal benefits realized by those regional jurisdictions that grant citizenship to foreign nationals (and their immediate families) who are prepared to invest handsome sums into their economies have caused me to wonder whether the decision to do so should not have been a collective CARICOM decision, given the legal implications for the other jurisdictions in that regional grouping that do not offer this entitlement on similar terms.

My musing is based on the fact that the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas, at Article 32 (5), provides that “a person shall be regarded as a national of a Member State if such person (i) is a citizen of that State…”

And in its judgment in 2013 in the case brought by Shanique Myrie against Barbados, the Caribbean Court of Justice asserted that both the rights of establishment and of the provision of services “presume of necessity the right of movement of Community nationals without being obstructed by unreasonable restrictions” and that “an essential element of the right of free movement is the entry and stay of a Community national in another Member State hassle free, that is to say, without harassment or the imposition of impediments…” (My emphasis)

Since the economic citizen and his family would become citizens under the Revised Treaty, they should logically be entitled to those rights aforementioned on entry into any other Member State.

I note that Article 32 also provides that “the competent Organ shall establish basic criteria for Member States in order to safeguard against manipulation or abuse of such rights so as to gain an unfair advantage against other Member States…in the area of nationality criteria…” However, I have serious doubts as to whether this adequately covers the point that I am making here.

It would appear that by permitting or suffering certain states to create citizens through other than the ordinarily accepted means, the other CARICOM members may have unwittingly enlarged their treaty responsibilities in terms of entry of persons into their countries. Intriguing!

To you dear reader, a blessed, thoughtful, healthful and prosperous 2016.


Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

317 responses to “The Jeff Cumberbatch Column – Yuletide Musings”

  1. Well Well & Consequences2 Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences2

    Art has a good point re the Ursulines, having had experience with the former head Mrs. Hill’s style of discipline which never involved a strap…..really bad kids at the Ursulines aside, her methods were very effective.

    In every school there are really bad kids, it is really up to the parents, if they are capable, to identify workable methods in the ever changing phases children go through while growing up.

  2. Well Well & Consequences2 Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences2

    FYI…..the Ursulines, particularly the senior school, has been majority black for many years.


  3. One teacher at a public school recently gave my son a lash which made him unable to sit properly for a week. The teacher was frustrated that the children would not be quiet so he could teach the class. I totally understand his frustration but he beat the whole class. My son wasn’t talking but received a painful lash with effects that lasted a week. Now, mad woman that I am I would have wreaked havoc on that teacher but my son wouldn’t have wanted that. The matter was dealt with and it will not be happening again. Incidentally, when I met the teacher he seemed quite rational and interested in doing a good job. It was pure frustration which caused this mishap.. Something has to be done about our school system for the sake of everyone.


  4. Only this morning, about half an hour ago, I looked out my kitchen window, upstairs, and saw a group of young teenage boys, about five of them, coming down the gap; three of them had empty plastic bottles, they, the three of them, threw the bottles on the ground, the road, literally about 15 feet from my empty garbage bin!

    I spoke to them, and said fellas, cud dear, don’t litter the street, pick them up and put them in my garbage bin, they looked up at me, ignored me, and kept on walking!

    I see this indifferent behaviour all the time; NO national pride at all! I also see adults doing this!

    A few years, I was walking along the B’town boardwalk, near the top, by the taxi stand; a young couple were sitting on a bench, finishing off a Chefette Burger; the young woman, took the remains of her Burger, and threw it on the boardwalk, with only a provided garbage bin, about ten feet behind were she was seated!

    I immediately went over and picked up what she had thrown on the boardwalk, and said, “I’ll put it in the garbage bin for you..” To her embarrassment!

    The lack of national pride, emanating from many of our young people, and adults, is disgusting!

    PRIDE and INDUSTRY! You mean arrogance, indifference, with little Industry!

    Pride in the Bible is akin to a haughty and arrogant spirit! we seem to have nuff a dat!


  5. @BU, I did not intend for this to turn into the todoment (!) That it has become. And my fit of pique yesterday has nothing to do with disagreement with my views from Exclaimer. In the first place, since 1975, I have been in a field where disagreement is not only common, but expected. Why do you think that there are lawyers for the claimant and defendant? Law is adversarial by nature.

    Second, Exclaimer did not disagree with anything I wrote, in fact he or she appeared to agree with the point about the effects of the Citizenship by Investment programmes in some regional jurisdictions on the Myrie decision and what it might mean for the region. What I did find objectionable was his or her reference to “the masses” as if one must establish one’s credentials to publish on BU by writing about topics that are of interest to him or her in a style that he or she favours…as if he or she was appointed to speak for the masses!

    I know where I came from…and wherever he or she might think I now am situated, it would not have come easily. Hence, I needed to know whether that was a general sentiment here. If it were, then I should see no need to remain, in spite of the goodwill I have felt from many such as David, DIW, Miller, PUDRYR, Hants, Caswell, Bush Tea, ac and others….all of whom have disagreed with my views at sometime or other.

    It is not about disagreement…it is all about whether one is welcome or not. Indeed, my views on many matters scarcely coincide with those of the majority….hanging, corporal punishment, Republicanism, same sex marriage, the extent of religious freedom, freedom of speech….the list goes on.

    I do not know what it is that ” the masses” may want to hear. Perhaps Exclaimer and those of his or her ilk should feel free to publish a column on these matters for general discussion.

    David, I agree with you. Mine yesterday was an overeaction.

    PS, Bushie, whom should we blame then for thieving politicians? The Faculty of Social Sciences? Or their political parties?


  6. @ Artaxexes, my column this week was not on corporal punishment. It is partly on freedom of expression -who has the right to criticize and local reactions to positive and negative criticism; the legality of the shorter prison year in Barbados and the implications of the Myrie decision on the CBI programmes in the region.


  7. Artaxerxes


  8. Hants December 29, 2015 at 11:03 AM #
    Everyone is FREE to post wtf they like EXCEPT FOR GP
    WHEN GP POSTS THE TRUTH IT MAKES THE HERD MAD

    MAN HOW DID YOU ENJOY THE TEST MATCH.
    WE LOST ONLY BECAUSE THE TWO BRAFITTS DIDNT MEK NO RUNS IN THE SECOND INNINGS LOL


  9. Jeff Cumberbatch December 29, 2015 at 12:38 PM #

    “Perhaps Exclaimer and those of his or her ilk should feel free to publish a column on these matters for general discussion.”

    I agree that your articles adds much interest to BU and, in MY opinion, you have contributed to lifting the standard and contents of the responses tremendously. This forum would be the looser if you were to discontinue your publications. However, I am not prepared to agree with everything you write.

    As it relates to “whether one is welcome or not,” surely you must use the numerous responses and “discussions” on various, associated issues your contributions have so far generated, as a deciding factor to determine if you are welcomed in this forum or not.

    I prefer to comment on financial and economical issues, which are rarely submitted to BU. However, when such issues are posted, responses are “few and far between,” proving that contributors are not really interested in these matters.
    Then the critics like Bushie often write that I am “an economist, whatever the hell that is.” Well, that’s Bushie being Bushie, I expect that of him.

    More often than not, ALL contributors submit excellent contributions. Individuals such as Walter, Caswell, Georgie and Zoe’s contributions are based on their respective disciplines or expertise. We all know how to categorize Alvin, AC, Dompey and Prodigal. Diverse writing styles and opinions are welcomed, if not this forum would be boring and probably end up like “Barbados Free Press.”

    Even though we may disagree and cuss “one nedduh” (sometimes going over-board) when someone “mash our corns,” at the end of the day, we let bygones be bygones and praise or support each other’s contributions when it so deserves.


  10. Thanks Jeff, even before we started to post your pieces on BU you should recall we had given feedback on the lack of circulation of the Barbados Advocate which does not do you justice. You post with a style and substance of content that encourages most readers to think. Before we are able to do we must give thought to what is to be done. Input from academics like yourself is important to educate the masses. The process of educating ordinary folk will require patience however :-).


  11. @Hants and GP
    “Everyone is FREE to post wtf they like EXCEPT FOR GP
    WHEN GP POSTS THE TRUTH IT MAKES THE HERD MAD/

    True :-). To add a comment about cricket after… drove me off my rocker.


  12. @ Jeff
    Skippa, you would be so sorely missed on BU, that we would get David to do re-runs on your old articles if you stopped writing… It is PRECISELY because you touch on ‘MEATY’ issues that you elicit such strong responses….
    LOL …you is the sorta fellow in a rum shop that always cause a ‘bassa-bassa’ when he turn up… (like Bushie in his younger days LOL)

    Re your post script above:
    PS, Bushie, whom should we blame then for thieving politicians?
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    That question is redundant, ..since our politicians are basically lawyers …and admirers of lawyers. 🙂
    …so the answer is “…same as for thieving lawyers”.

    BTW
    You can ALWAYS tell a big man by his ability to recognise a slip…and to apologise….
    More brownie points up your sleeve….
    As Bushie said before – YOU MUST be something special…
    A Lawyer
    A UWI teacher
    A Chairman of Fear Trading
    A supporter of flawed disciplinary ideologies
    …and now threatening to quit like GP the quitter…

    ANY YET ..YOU KEEP CLIMBING IN THE BU POLLS…….. even in Bushie’s…
    Shiite man… you are indeed a BOSS!!

    @ Donna
    Where the hell do you come from?
    How do you understand so much…? ..are you not a woman? ..are you not young?
    Lady, you are an enigma of biblical proportions.

    90% of our children are nothing but PRICELESS…
    8% have challenges that are completely out of their little control..
    1.8% NEED strong, firm decisive discipline … or they will become devils and terrorists
    0.18% NEEDS to have a regular cut-ass….else we will end up with yet more ACs, Alvins, and Vincents.
    .02% will end up like Dompey …EVEN WITH a regular cut-ass. Fortunately most of those tend to emigrate….

    Ignore the 2% who NEED to be managed and controlled….and we will end up just like the USA and Europe with a small group of internal rebels that will eventually destroy the whole society. It is the proverbial one rotten apple all over again…..
    Bushie votes that we reserve the right to apply corporal / capital or similar DRASTIC preemptive actions – to protect the whole barrel…

  13. Well Well & Consequences2 Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences2

    Jeff…..now you are wandering right up my alley, please write an article on the effects thiefing politicians have on any society, it will automatically and generally cover a very wide range of lawyers, no need to personalize.


  14. @ Jeff Cumberbatch December 29, 2015 at 12:38 PM,

    I went to bed last night with the firm belief that I had culled a Barbadian academic giant; I have just returned home after a hard day’s work to discover to my horror that you were merely wounded.

    On a serious note, I am pleased that you have returned to the BU forum. Jeff, let’s get one thing straight. I was very surprised with your petulant response yesterday and today towards me. It is almost like I have got under your skin. May I remind you that you are both a Journalist and a Senior University Professor? And that you are the holder of a master’s degree and a PHD.

    I would like to know why a man of your pedigree has come across as a highly strung teenager simply because you have felt slighted by me one month ago. BU is an electronic rum shop. You have entered a bare knuckled arena – get used to it!

    We all know that it is easier to criticise and to demolish somebody’s writings than it is to produce a well written and robust article. It is clear to me that you have a substantial following. You should concentrate on what you do best: thinking and writing. You have been invited by the owner of BU to write. So you must write. What you think of me is irrelevant and should not cloud your judgement.

    I am sure that we can agree on one thing. I was highly impressed with the quality of the responses from this post. Seldom have I seen so many bloggers drawing the same conclusions from our little spat. This surely is a testament to both the intellectual and the individual mind set of those bloggers. I must say how highly impressed I was with Dee Word’s contribution. He is a man who I have criticised often, however his true worth came shining through. I believe that his contribution was invaluable.

    Jeff, it was noticeable that none of my fellow bloggers apart from one (millertheanunnaki) threw me under the bus. Neither did they turn against you. What this tells me is that we have a wonderful and an intelligent group of people who make BU what it is. I believe that you are in a good home.

    I will continue to read your contributions but will desist from posting any comments, as I do not feel that it would be beneficial. I sincerely wish you a happy and a prosperous 2016. My mother gave me some money for Christmas so I’m going to invest in a dictionary!


  15. re and now threatening to quit like GP the quitter…

    gp is not a quitter ma boy……………………not at all

    gp just quit posting medical and biblical articles on BU because it dont make sense

    i admire zoe for his ability to continue throwing pearls to swine

    i prefer watch cricket on willow channel and just come and wake up de herd pun BU once in a while


  16. @Bush Tea December 29, 2015 at 3:29 PM #

    Yuh bouy…..wha yuh callin muh naem fuh?

    Strange as it may seem to you I do not agree with removing the parents’ right to discipline a child in all of its many age old forms providing no harm is done.

  17. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Exclaimer December 29, 2015 at 3:50 PM

    O me, miseram !!!!
    Threw you under the bus??
    Not at all, my matey! Just making sure you were catching the ‘correct’ bus.
    You were boarding the No. 36 to Lewisham instead of the 159 to Streatham via Brixton Prison. Just a gentle clip around the ‘right’ ear did the trick.

    Now we are back on track, just waiting for Zoe to join the good fishing expedition in more intellectually challenging waters.

  18. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar

    But Exclaimer, to my best recollection, you have never commented on the substance of any of my columns, except on one occasion recently when you did not miss the opportunity to describe it as “lengthy and overarching” whatever that may mean. You have frequently chosen rather, from behind your veil of pseudonymity to query even my right to be present here…that’s catty man….

    Peace!


  19. Can’t wait to read this week article from Jeff titled “A test of fortitude”


  20. @ Jeff Cumberbatch December 29, 2015 at 7:04 PM,

    Jeff, I may be wrong but I fail to understand how you can speak with an independent voice when you are employed by two conservative bastions: The Advocate and the UWI. Both of these groups pay your salaries and will be monitoring you very closely.

    You have put yourself in a tricky position. Evidently, you are aware of the contradictions that you will encounter. I will be following your contribution to the BU forum with interest. I hope that it will prove to be a positive experience for you and that you will have the tenacity to deal with the BU vultures.

    Good luck.


  21. @ Jeff Cumberbatch December 29, 2015 at 7:04 PM #
    SO?

    What exempts you from having your “right to be present here” questioned boss?
    Wuh a man even questioned David (BU)’s right to contribute here…
    a fella called Jack Boremann… 🙂

    …and you still on with this pseudonymity business? Nothing stops you from writing your articles as ‘JC’ …..except that you would not automatically benefit from the respect of your hundreds of past students, friends, admirers and colleagues (except Amused), and be considered an automatic ‘authority’ on Law and education (as you currently are)…

    …also you would run the risk of being associated with ‘AC’….. chuckle!!!

    Wuh you think would happen if Artax were to blog under his REAL name?
    Bushie would eat him alive skippa… LOL
    …as it is Bushie is FORCED to respect the many good points he makes …and to only make snide remarks about the authenticity of Economics as a serious academic discipline …ha ha ha


  22. Exclaimer December 29, 2015 at 8:04 PM #
    I hope that ………… you will have the tenacity to deal with the BU vultures.

    exclaimer!!
    you cant make truthful statements like dat on BU.
    you have to call BU writers angels or choirboys or sunday school children


  23. @Bush Tea December 29, 2015 at 8:10 PM #

    Lookah….bedtime fuh yuh,dem tings ge’ing tuh yuh head.


  24. @ Vincent
    bedtime…
    OK Boss…!! ZZZZZZzzz


  25. Or the 133 to Liverpool Street via Streatham Hill


  26. @Jeff, good to see that is all cleared up cause I was really concerned that you were going to confirm that the legal-aid foundation ting was starting soon, en trute and you wouldn’t have the time to keep we energized pon here… LOLLL.

    Incidentally, did you ever fail anyone in your classes for missing the point…must have!. Well you should fail all ah we fah real.

    You stated quite correctly and emphatically that your essay was NOT about corporal punishment. And indeed it was NOT. As it was also not about racism with that direct reference to a rabid racist.

    Yah see, that is why YOU got to continue to write bout here. To show all of we that we does run we mout before we engage we brains…

    But that is totally your fault Jeff. Oh lawd. In this case, you led with two of your favorite hobby-horses: child abuse -corporal punishment- and racism. They drew the attention (pull we in) but you simply used them to segue (push we) to completely different and important perspectives.

    You had we and lost we at ‘tamarind rod’. LOLLL.

    When the rule of law re immigration and its impact on regional neighbors, the continuing issue of non-conformity to treaty agreements and prison sentencing are thrown aside by all-ah we to palaver about ‘how we should be lashing we children’ you must realize that we just as frigging duncy and ingrunt as dem children dem (as Pieces would say).

    Send out yah C and F grades do…

    @Exclaimer, just as Jeff must continue to scribe one would hope you also continue to comment. You are a very interesting fellow/fella really.

    As you said we disagree often and surely will continue to but frankly I always read your posts…for what’s its worth your sharp perspectives does cause me to sometimes reassess…let’s be clear…not often (LOLLL) but still that it does is important!

    Peace.


  27. @ GP,

    “i admire zoe for his ability to continue throwing pearls to swine”

    GP, If it were a private gathering of these ‘swine’ I would have existed long ago; but it is not!

    BU, as we know is a public forum, with many unknown quiet observers, only the Lord knows who out there are reading, learning, making choices…even some of the very ‘swine’ here…maybe, are being touched…but PRIDE, that killer of honesty, truthfulness, prevents an open admission to the truth of His Word!!!

    Therefore, So help me God, I can do none other!!!


  28. De Ingrunt Word,

    I was well aware that we were not discussing his main point. But we tend sometimes to digress and discuss what appeals to us.

  29. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Zoe December 30, 2015 at 10:23 AM
    “BU, as we know is a public forum, with many unknown quiet observers, only the Lord knows who out there are reading, learning, making choices…even some of the very ‘swine’ here…maybe, are being touched…but PRIDE, that killer of honesty, truthfulness, prevents an open admission to the truth of His Word!!! “

    Zoe, “We” Swine, you must remember, are also creations of your god who saved us like you and your incestuous family from the destruction of the flood and placed us two right among you lot in the very Ark of Noah.
    Is that the way to treat a ‘fellow” species that has saved many millions of so-called Christians aka ‘Zoesists’ from starvation and early death because of medical experiments?

    You Zoe will never be like the legendary ‘prodigal son’ who not only lived among the “swine” but was man enough to seek help and his father’s forgiveness in his dire hour of need.

    Zoe, when will you be ‘Man’ enough and admit you are a liar and ‘twistorian’ of biblical stories?
    When will you be that saviour of honesty and truth and admit that your god’s WORD does not pronounce on all matters pertaining to this little speck of dust in our galaxy called Earth?
    Now come on Zoe, don’t be like those who sat on the benches of the Court of Inquisition or those that made poor Galileo recant his assertion (based on Copernicus’s theory of Heliocentricity) that the little orb called Earth revolves around the SUN.

    Just admit that neither the polar bear, the penguin nor the kangaroo; or even the platypus or the capybara or llama were not all sitting around the same feeding table on the 7th deck of the Ark enjoying the same three course meal as your Ancestor Shem, the 2 chimpanzees called Naki & Nanki and a male silverback gorilla ogling Shem’s wife in the dark.

    But Zoe, we have eternal confidence in your intellectual virginity untouched by commonsense. That is why we can depend ‘upon’ you to explain to the BU household the existence of those ‘other’ humans mentioned in the Cain & Abel story.
    Were they the sons and daughters of Adam & Eve or were they brought to Earth by the Sons of God (the “Q”) from the land of the Vulcan, Ferengi, Klingon or the Borg?

    “Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.
    19 Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah.
    20 Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock.
    21 His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play stringed instruments and pipes.
    22 Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain’s sister was Naamah.
    23 Lamech said to his wives, Adah and Zillah, listen to me; wives of Lamech, hear my words.
    I have killed a man for wounding me, a young man for injuring me.
    24 If Cain is avenged seven times, then Lamech seventy-seven times.”


  30. Zoe December 29, 2015 at 10:28 AM #
    @ Miller, From the time you encountered me here on BU, you tried relentlessly to corner me with your NAKI-NAKI un-historical, un-empirical, illogical paganistic worldview nonsense.

    I repeatedly, again and again, REFUTED you soundly, historically, coherently, logically, and you were/are at a lost to offer any intellectually honest counter, because there are NONE, Miller, NONE!!

    You then complimented me, by saying, “…you are one in a billion…you got me feeling like a Python that swallowed a Jackass…will take a year to digest it…” Obvious reference to the content of my REFUTATION(S) for which you had/have NO ANSWER!

    And you now come here with more of your sterile intellectualism, and paralyzed orthodoxy, blatantly using turnaround accusation,

    Miller NAKI-NAKI,

    Man, you sinking deeper and deeper into the abyss of sterile, ignorant intellectualism, and paralyzed arrogance;

    See if you can get Rah, Pah or Mah to beam you up to Ferengi, or Klingon, maybe Borg would even be better…to give you an enema to expel the engorged ANUNNAKI celestial waste trapped in your cranial Chimpanzee ancestral cavity!

  31. millertheanunnaki Avatar

    @ Zoe December 30, 2015 at 7:13 PM

    I guess Oscar Wilde was ‘right’ when he said: “Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit”.

    I am indeed so sorry, Zoe, for being such a poor purveyor of wit.

    If you see yourself as a jackass swallowed by a constipated python with a stitched-up anus and can deem it a compliment to your intellectual brilliance then by all means take the whole kit and caboodle of irony.

    Is it not pure irony for you to see yourself as a jackass but poor miller as a chimpanzee?
    Now in the grand scheme of your Yahweh’s things which one would you think is ‘smarter’?
    I guess you would say the “ass” (the Volkswagen of that time) since it was on its back your friend rode into Jerusalem for his ‘ordained’ crucifixion instead of the other way around with a monkey on his back.

    Just a bit of tit for tat since you prefer to play the ‘chimpanzee Naki-Naki instead of the ‘googly’ (the ball) that trapped you.
    When are you going to deal with the query regarding the other humans existing around the time of Cain’s ‘misdeeds’?
    Let the BU family know the family tree of these other ‘humanoids’ mentioned in the same book of myths and legends. That would more than make up for your abject deficiency in recognizing sarcasm from euphemism.

    Your 98% brother in blood and in Chi Rho.
    Miller the lovable adorable Naki-Naki Chimp fit for your admiration in the Zoo (or is that Zoe?).


  32. This may help both of you sort out your relationship.

    https://www.facebook.com/SexHumanEvolution/videos/1705417259689021/


  33. @Miller,

    “When are you going to deal with the query regarding the other humans existing around the time of Cain’s ‘misdeeds’?”

    **This was adequately answered, recently…where were you? Visiting Borg!

    “Let the BU family know the family tree of these other ‘humanoids’ mentioned in the same book of myths and legends. That would more than make up for your abject deficiency in recognizing sarcasm from euphemism.”

    Again, this was also given, recently, Miller, the DNA of Noah’s Flood, a very science based factual presentation, see http://www.astirinch.com

    The distinguished archaeologist, Professor Albright, begins his classic essay, The Biblical Period:

    “Hebrew national tradition excels ALL others in its clear picture of tribal and family origins. In Egypt and Babylonia, in Assyria and Phoenicia, in Greece and Rome, we look in vain for anything comparable. There is NOTHING like it is the tradition of Germanic peoples. Neither India nor China can produce anything similar, since their earliest historical memories are literary deposits of distorted dynastic tradition, with no trace of the herdsman or peasant behind the demigod or king with whom their records begin. Neither in the oldest Indic historical writings ( the Puranas) nor in the earliest Greek historians is there a hint of fact that both Indo-Aryans and Hellenes were once nomads who immigrated into their later abodes from the north. The Assyrians to be sure, remembered vaguely that their earliest rulers, whose names they recalled without any details about their dead, were tent dwellers, but when they came had long been forgotten.” 27/3

    “The Table of Nations” in Genesis 10 is an ASTONISHINGLY ACCURATE historical account. According to Albright:

    “It stands absolutely ALONE in ancient literature WITHOUT a remote parallel even among the Greeks…”The Table of Nations” remains an astonishingly accurate document…(It) shows such remarkable ‘modern’ understanding of the ethnic and linguistic situation in the modern world, in spite of all its complexity, that scholars never fail to be impressed with the author’s knowledge of the subject.” 7/70ff
    (EVIDENCE That Demands a Verdict, Historical Evidences For The Christian Faith, Vol 1, p.23) Emphasis added.

    Miller, are you intellectually honest enough, to understand and admit, what the immediate above means historically?

    Miller, the FOSSIL record, discovered over the past 150 years, NOT by Christian scientists, but by Evolutionists scientists, emphatically CONFIRM the Genesis account of Creation, which MEANS, LIFE in all of its varied and extremely complex forms, were EACH Created after its own KIND, as stated in God’s Word the Bible.

    Not a SINGLE, viable transitional FOSSIL has EVER been found, DEBUNKING the theory of evolution! Because EVOLUTION is a LIE! It never happened!

    The DNA science of Noah’s flood, leads right back to Adam and Eve!

    THOUSANDS of years Miller, NOT Millions of years, NAKI-NAKI!

    Miller, if you CAN’T get pass the FOSSIL record, the BEGINNING of all LIFE on earth,
    your FAIRY tale argument DONE, DONE, DONE!!!

    And the so-called book of fables, as you call it, The Bible, is HISTORICALLY, and SCIENTIFICALLY accurate, TRUE and absolutely Trustworthy!

    I challenge you Miller, to disprove and refute these FACTS and EVIDENCE, historically and by science of the FOSSIL record!

    The Law of Non-Contradiction in Logic, states:

    A cannot be -A in the same respect or same time. In other words, two competing Truth claims, CANNOT be both right, in the same respect or the same time

    The Law of exclude Middle in Logic:

    A statement is TRUE, is one that corresponds to reality, (Creation) If statement ‘X” is true, corresponding to REALITY (Creation), then this implies that -X is FALSE (Miller’s Worldview!) In other words, if something IS* TRUE (Creation) this must exclude something, (namely FALSITY, Miller’s posit!) We are left with two exhaustive options. TRUTH or FALSITY!!


  34. for a start ZOE, the jokers here need to hear and heed Coopers’s law

    David Cooper writes, “When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.” Cited in Pentecost, J. Dwight. Things to Come: a Study in Biblical Eschatology. Grand Rapids, MI: Academie, 1964. 42.j


  35. @Zoe

    Do enjoy your tussles with Miller, it give opportunity to the onlookers to pick sense from nonsense.


  36. David December 31, 2015 at 11:01 PM #
    @Zoe

    Do enjoy your tussles with Miller, it give opportunity to the onlookers to pick sense from nonsense.

    Yes David, Because Facts become credible Facts, when they are warranted to the relevant degree of certainty.

    And, Reason, the intellectual ability to think critically, is necessary when facts and evidence have been presented historically, backed by sound science; therefore revelation becomes coherent, which is our only criterion for truth!


  37. @Zoe January 1, 2016 at 12:07 AM #

    ………….and the world is 6000 years old?


  38. @ Miller,

    Where are you man? You gone to Vulcan for a New Year retreat or what?

    Now that you’ve exhausted your venomous, viscous, vacuous, malignant, EMPTY rhetoric, VOID of any substance whatsoever…think you can bring anything substantive, historically, empirically to refute the facts and evidence of the FOSSIL record, which confirms the Genesis account of Creation?

    I challenge you Miller, to disprove and refute these FACTS and EVIDENCE, historically and by science of the FOSSIL record!

    “The Table of Nations” in Genesis 10 is an ASTONISHINGLY ACCURATE historical account. Unlike any other ancient document!

    Come on Miller, these and other in-disputable historic facts, that can ONLY be found IN* the Book of myths and legends, according to you, Miller…anyone can say what you say, BUT, I challenge you AGAIN, to REFUTE by facts, NOT empty rhetoric, the historical veracity of the Bible, God’s Word!

    And, Miller, while you’re at it…don’t come with anymore red-herring distractives about polar bears, penguins or kangaroo’s, God Created ALL of them, according to their KIND, and brought them forth after the Flood, according to their KIND; that’s why we still have them ALIVE today!


  39. I REPEAT
    the jokers here need to hear and heed Coopers’s law

    David Cooper writes, “When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.” Cited in Pentecost, J. Dwight. Things to Come: a Study in Biblical Eschatology. Grand Rapids, MI: Academie, 1964. 42.j


  40. ZOE
    CAN ANYONE RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH WITHOUT SOUND CONSISTENT HERMENEUTICS?

    CAN ANYONE PICK SENSE FROM NONSENSE ABOUT THE WORD OF TRUTH WITHOUT HAVING THE AUTHOR OF THE WORD WITHIN?

    IS NOT THE KEY PHRASE IN COOPERS LAW ” unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.?”

    IS NOT Coopers’s law AN IMPORTANT PRINCIPLE OF HERMENEUTICS USED BY THOSE WHO REALLY KNOW HOW TO PICK SENS FROM NONSENSE?


  41. Georgie Porgie January 1, 2016 at 10:47 PM #
    ZOE

    CAN ANYONE RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH WITHOUT SOUND CONSISTENT HERMENEUTICS?

    CAN ANYONE PICK SENSE FROM NONSENSE ABOUT THE WORD OF TRUTH WITHOUT HAVING THE AUTHOR OF THE WORD WITHIN?

    IS NOT THE KEY PHRASE IN COOPERS LAW ” unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.?”

    IS NOT Coopers’s law AN IMPORTANT PRINCIPLE OF HERMENEUTICS USED BY THOSE WHO REALLY KNOW HOW TO PICK SENS FROM NONSENSE?

    I UNDERSTAND your above completely!

    BUT, we are not dealing with the ‘Saved’ they do NOT understand sound consistent Hermeneutics; therefore the intellect, which God does NOT bypass can be used by Him, to make SENSE from NONSENSE when Historical FACTS and EVIDENCE are presented, CONFIRMING the Word of God. I.e., The Fossil Record, The Table of Nations, DNA for Noah’s Flood, etc, etc!

    Some Atheists have been converted FROM Historical EVIDENCE, first; THEN they are taught by sound Biblical Hermeneutics, Contextual Analysis, and Linguistic Exegesis!

    Enough said!!


  42. “Artaxerxes December 28, 2015 at 10:47 AM #

    Exclaimer December 28, 2015 at 10:03 AM #

    “The writer of this article (Jeff) is well respected. His style of writing may please some of the purists who exist on this blog. However, I find the writer’s style a distraction. Barbados is at a precipice; yet the writer dilutes his message without any sense of urgency. This is a betrayal of the state of affairs in Barbados.”

    I will certainly draw the wrath of the “BU purists,” but I agree with your opinion. The blog master will be quick to defend, perhaps because of the position he is perceived to hold in society. That’s the norm.

    There are issues in this society that his expertise could be better utilized by suggesting appropriate solutions.”

    Unfortunately I have to concur with you both. Unless Barbados is more Hitlerian than I am naïve to believe; I have always felt that for the country to reach its true potential and for trust and respect be restored to the overall system of governance that persons like Jeff who ought to have no axe to grind ‘tell it like it is’.


  43. @balance
    What exactly is “tell it like it is?”.
    It seems to me as if there is an attempt to pull or push Jeff to one side or the other.

    Jeff’s name is out there in bold letters, I have some difficulty in figuring out the names of the others who want him to “tell it like it is”.

    I have no advice for Jeff, for he is his own man with his own brain, but Before others ask a man to get up on a cross, they should already be up there as an example.

    I may be wrong, but that’s my opinion.


  44. I googled, but I did not fully get it.
    Hermeneutics: Nutriion as practiced by hermits.
    Forgive me, for I don’t take all things seriously.


  45. @TheGazer

    Who can say you are wrong? Not a boy!


  46. I googled, but I did not fully get it.
    Hermeneutics: Nutriion as practiced by hermits.
    Forgive me, for I don’t take all things seriously.
    Nutriion: Study of nutrinos; also an abbreviation for nutrition


  47. “TheGazer January 2, 2016 at 9:39 AM #

    @balance
    What exactly is “tell it like it is?”.
    It seems to me as if there is an attempt to pull or push Jeff to one side or the other.

    Jeff’s name is out there in bold letters, I have some difficulty in figuring out the names of the others who want him to “tell it like it is”.

    I have no advice for Jeff, for he is his own man with his own brain, but Before others ask a man to get up on a cross, they should already be up there as an example.

    I may be wrong, but that’s my opinion.”

    Like
    Not surprised at such a response from a gazer. Keep on gazing my friend.

    .

  48. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Zoe January 1, 2016 at 10:27 PM #
    “Where are you man? You gone to Vulcan for a New Year retreat or what?

    Now that you’ve exhausted your venomous, viscous, vacuous, malignant, EMPTY rhetoric, VOID of any substance whatsoever…think you can bring anything substantive, historically, empirically to refute the facts and evidence of the FOSSIL record, which confirms the Genesis account of Creation?

    I challenge you Miller, to disprove and refute these FACTS and EVIDENCE, historically and by science of the FOSSIL record!

    “The Table of Nations” in Genesis 10 is an ASTONISHINGLY ACCURATE historical account. Unlike any other ancient document!

    Come on Miller, these and other in-disputable historic facts, that can ONLY be found IN* the Book of myths and legends, according to you, Miller…anyone can say what you say, BUT, I challenge you AGAIN, to REFUTE by facts, NOT empty rhetoric, the historical veracity of the Bible, God’s Word!
    And, Miller, while you’re at it…don’t come with anymore red-herring distractives about polar bears, penguins or kangaroo’s, God Created ALL of them, according to their KIND, and brought them forth after the Flood, according to their KIND; that’s why we still have them ALIVE today!”

    My little friend, Zoe, why don’t you stop pulling at the tail of a lion?
    What are you trying to do? A rerun of the 1925 Monkey (Scopes) Trial on BU to further expose your ‘jack-asininity’?

    How can you ever be so stupid as to seek the backing of ‘Science’ to support your claim to an Earth (and the Universe) that is only 6,000 years old?

    The fossil records scientifically refute your assertions of a 6,000 year old Earth.

    Now, if the fossil records have confirmed in your fossilized brain a 6,000 year old planet, where does that leave the bones of the dinosaurs? Interred in the fossilized records of Jurassic park?

    Were the dinosaurs on Noah’s boat of survival or did they die off in the flood waters because of some act of disobedience they committed against your god Yahweh?
    Why not let us agree that those darn critters were so humongous they certainly would have sunk poor Noah’s little boat hence the decision by Noah not to travel to China and the North American plains to capture those ancient wild beast.


  49. @Miller

    The dinosaurs of Jurassic were created in a lab no?

    A little joke to take a load off.

The blogmaster invites you to join and add value to the discussion.

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading