Hal Austin
Introduction:
Recently a friend of mine, a highly admired New York lawyer of Barbadian extraction, sent me a newspaper clipping about Anita Hill, the woman who accused Supreme Court justice Clarence Thomas, of sexual harassment. This month is also Women’s History Month in the UK and today the United Nations held its 58th Commission on the Status of Women, at which new development goals for women were discussed. So this is timely.
The reason for the newspaper report on Professor Hill was a documentary film recently made about the now Brandeis University law professor and reflecting on her worldwide public humiliation during the US Senate hearing following her allegations against the top judge. I remember quite clearly the allegations and the way they split the black British community broadly in two camps: those for Ms Hill and those for Justice Thomas. But there were, among them myself, those who felt a plague on both your houses. I believed the truth of her allegations, but felt that the immorality alleged should have been dealt with in other ways. The greater evil, to my mind, was Mr Thomas’ conservatism, which I felt was a betrayal of the collective politics of the 1960s and decades of political struggle, for which so many people had suffered. Further, I felt his conservatism was not at root ideological or cultural, unlike that of Professor Thomas Sowell and others of the black conservative movement or even of the typical Barbadian, but rather was contrived out of personal bitterness and resentment.
I believed then, and still do now, that Mr Thomas felt that despite his academic and professional achievements he was still denied the ‘respect’ he felt he deserved by the |African-American community. The newspaper cut also reminded of a seminar I presented in Barbados on behalf of the Commonwealth Secretariat on the economic progress of women.
Politics:
One of the issues that fail to demand more of our collective conversational times as a community is the gender relations between black men and black women. For any number of what are construed to be more pressing issues, that vital and historically important discussion which we must have if we are to move forward as a community, must move higher up our social agenda. It is not enough to restrict the conversation to one of domestic abuse, although that is very important. The casual, and often sexist, nature of the way many black men relate to black women – professionals and the unskilled – can often cause offence, particularly with young, professional, middle class women. Quite often there is a cultural assumption that sexual innuendo should be tolerated, even if not accepted, as the price of social and cultural identification between the genders. Of course, the gender question between black men and women goes far beyond bad behaviour and sexist language. It goes right to the heart of how, as majority communities and as minorities in Europe and North America, we are treated and treat each other. It is also important when it comes to the casual denigration of African-Caribbean people, such as the masculinisation of black female offenders when it comes to sentencing policy. It is also part of the journalistic and policy gender-reassignment when it comes to the reporting of so-called gang activity. It is only by clarifying the fog of these social, cultural and political issues that we will eventually come to a proper understanding of what they represent.
I am a big supporter of what Professor Patricia Hill Collins calls intersectionality, the discourse of intersecting oppressions, which tells us that we cannot consider ‘feminism’ without also looking at issues of class, ethnicity, religion and wider identity politics. Without privileging the experiences of black women over those of men, nevertheless it is important to draw those experiences to the centre of the African conversation. In this way, we may come to understand some of the powerful, and flawed, analyse that seek to explain black female achievement. Take academic performance. Is the success of young black women the world over due to biology, or the type of exams used to test academic ability?
Our politics: do biological sentiments encourage women to be more ‘conservative’ and caring in their attitudes or is it cultural?
I remember, vividly, the large number of Caribbean women who rushed to vote for Margaret Thatcher in 1979 on the grounds that Britain needed a woman prime minister. The rest is history. I also remember a contact of mine in what used to be Scotland Yard’s Yardie Squad telling me that one trick they often used to get hold of suspects was to allege to the ‘baby mother’ that the man had gone off to Jamaica with a lover, which he said never failed to bring out all the anger that had built up in the ‘baby mother’ over the years. Although there is a basic lesson there about male promiscuity and commitment, the point is that the authorities knew the buttons to press. The issue is also one of political and moral equivalence and the complexity of choice: one decision calls for rational thinking, the other is emotional. The choice is yours. Another of the many brutal truths we must face as a people is that black men and women do not always sing from the same song sheet. The way society treats black men and women, and the way we perceive ourselves, may be one explanation for the obvious professional success of the women. Black women not only achieve better academic success that their male counterparts, as has been pointed out, but they go on to establish more outstanding professional careers. In fact, this is the truth across all ethnic and cultural barriers and regions, even in Saudi Arabia; with a minority or disadvantaged group, the differences become much more obvious.
On the domestic front the situation is very much the same with women having a better handle on the budget than the men, who in the old days were the breadwinners. It is this that has led to the view that had women been running the global economy in 2007/8 the world would not have faced the banking crisis. This may be an exaggeration, but is worth considering. Sometimes the truth is that even within the same family it is noticeable that the girls and young women are generally more successful in terms of education and careers than their brothers and male cousins.
Conclusion:
For too long we have been drifting along assuming that as black men, facing a number of enormous everyday social and economic pressures, we have had the unconditional support of our female halves. But, to my mind, it is an assumption too far. We must urgently renegotiate the ground rules of our relations, which should include questions of self-definition. Is ethnicity or nationality more important than gender or profession or class affiliation? A more than casual understanding of black feminism, or Womanism, must be part of a wider social epistemology which embraces ideas of economic and political empowerment and other contestations in public space, such as work, college and civic organisations – and in the home. We must re-contest the idea of the personal being political and the magnification of slights and perceived insults as reflective of a deeper more culturally embedded disparity in power relations. On the other hand, if the views of women are to be central to the broader discussion of our social awareness, then it is important that men – the main offenders – show this in their expressions and actions. Women are capable of leading and this reality must be admitted by more men, no matter where they are situated in the social strata. It is the conflicting pressures on black women – in terms of ethnic consciousness and being part of the sisterhood – that make for interesting challenges. It is also the gap in feminist theory, be it of the French variety, Australian, British or American, where the black contribution ought to be. It was this that also gave rise to Alice Walker’s concept of womanism. The fundamental principle is one of playing the man and not the ball, which is more important historically?
A middle-aged man making a fool of himself is an irritant and should be slapped down, but allowing personal pride and anger to get in the way of how we as a group are perceived and interact with each other, in so doing, limit our opportunities even if for a short period; it may be putting too high a price on personal pride. I still believe the group comes first, whatever our personal disappointments and frustrations, and Anita Hill was wrong when she made her allegations against Justice Thomas, and she is still wrong now. His offence, is even graver since it goes against the grain of our history. On balance, the obnoxious political stance that Justice Thomas has taken has been more damaging to Black Americans than any Uncle Tom and Aunt Jemima.
• Further reading: “Black Feminist Thought in the Mixing of Domination,” Patricia Hill Collins; and, Black Sexual Politics: African Americans, Gender and the New Racism, Patricia Hill Collins
Half Austin
“…Mr Thomas conservatism which I felt was a betrayal of the collective politics of the 1960’s and decades of political struggle…”
Are you aware of that fact that President Ronald Reagan appointed Thomas assistant secretary for civil rights in the Department of Education in 1981? And in 1982 Reagan elevated Thomas to chair the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. And it was in these two capacities in the Reagan administration that Thomas established his conservative credentials, criticizing affirmative action and statistic – based quotas, a position that put him at odds with career civil rights employees.
Hal, it wasn’t my intention to place an addition letter in your name. I sincerely apologize sir.
@Hal A
I believed then, and still do now, that Mr Thomas felt that despite his academic and professional achievements he was still denied the ‘respect’ he felt he deserved by the |African-American community.
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The African American community did not embrace Thomas and it will be a cold day in hell before they do and it has nothing to do with any academic or professional achievement. The community as a whole felt he lacked the gravitas to step into the shoes of the man he replaced on the Supreme Court, they thought that Pres. GHW Bush took the easy road out when he appointed Thomas, they thought that Bush wanted to find a “Black’ to replace Thurgood Marshall and appointed the most amenable one he could find since Thomas fit the bill because he was an opponent of affirmative action and was a conservative first appointed under the Reagan Administration.
Marshall had a distinguished legal career before he was nominated to serve on the US Supreme Court, he had argued cases before the Court most notably Brown vs the Board of Education (the landmark case that ended segregation in public schools in the US) and had served in increasingly important legal posts before serving as a US Justice. Thurgood Marshall’s name was on the lips of most Black Americans as someone who would fight for their cause while Thomas’ legal career pales in comparison and most black people thought his experience did not merit appointment to the US Supreme Court.
Thomas has not helped himself since going to the Court, he is well known for not asking any questions during oral arguments and his votes are predictable following along the lead of Antonin Scalia (the most conservative member of the Court), in addition his wife is aligned with the “Tea Party” wing of the Republican party which is anathema to the majority of Black people.
Hal
…Of course Thurgood Marshall was well known in the black community… he worked for the NAACP and thereafter was nominated to the Supreme Court by the Democratic President Lyndon Johnson in 1965; in the heart of the civil rights movement. Clarence Thomas on the other hand, was nominated to the Supreme Court by George H. W. Bush the Republican President in 1991. And understanding the political history of black in America, one would have been cognizant of the reason why Thomas hadn’t any real support in the black ccommunity. Blacks in America traditionally voted for Abraham Lincoln Republican Party which fought against the evil institution of slavery but switched their support to the Democratic Party after President Franklin D. Roosevelt New Deal.
@Hal
Interesting challenge to the way Black men treat with Black women. It is a conversation we seldom have framed in the way you have done it.
“I still believe the group comes first, whatever our personal disappointments and frustrations, and Anita Hill was wrong when she made her allegations against Justice Thomas, and she is still wrong now. His offence, is even graver since it goes against the grain of our history. On balance, the obnoxious political stance that Justice Thomas has taken has been more damaging to Black Americans than any Uncle Tom and Aunt Jemima.”
Your commentary is all over the place and unfortunately I cannot understand the objective but what makes Anita hill’s allegations wrong if they indeed occurred. Fortunately for Judge Thomas they were not proven and following the issue at the time I felt as well that she was used as a pawn by the Democratic party who have been using black people for their own ends since and after emancipation and it is disturbing to me that intelligent black people like you ignore deliberately or blindly the façade and give them a pass. You same black people who were calling for Judge Thomas’s head just because he sided like me with a conservative agenda were the same ones who were willing to turn a blind eye to the sexual aberrations of President Clinton because of his “balancing of the budget and presumed pro first black President mantra”. It is instructive that people like you bitten by the bug of liberalism through the introduction of ‘social welfare programs’ which has done nothing more up to now for the elevation of the poor mostly black both in the inner cities of the USA and United Kingdom other than to keep them in a state of dependency ever so often having to rely on the state apparatus controlled by the same elite ‘for a fix’. I visit these places occasionally but you live it by having lived in Britain all of your life and should be ashamed at what you support because you have been conditioned to allow your racist blinkers to override your rational thought and commonsense in your continued support and actively too for programs and policies which deprecates the ‘dignity of the individual’ and keeps him/her in a state of perpetual dependency.
Listen! I am not a proponent of Clarence Thomas but we ought to understand his psychology before we rush to condemn him. Now it was told that one of the fundamentsl reasons Thomas vote against affirmative action which he benefited from; stemmed from the fact that he was incessantly maligned by whites folk the front office for making it with the help of affirmative action. Thomas felt that he hadn’t real gotten the true credit for his academic achievements. So he wanted blacks to make it on their on merit and not with the assistant of some government program.
“Thomas has not helped himself since going to the Court, he is well known for not asking any questions during oral arguments and his votes are predictable following along the lead of Antonin Scalia (the most conservative member of the Court”
Are you implying that Judge Thomas’s votes are anti-black just because he does not support what in his view and mine as well as a myopic agenda?
” in addition his wife is aligned with the “Tea Party” wing of the Republican party which is anathema to the majority of Black people”
Although President Clinton was tagged America’s first black President by some with an obvious inferiority complex, his political mentor was none other than segregationist Arkansas Senator J. William Fulbright, his partner in profit none other than the woman slated to get all the black votes when she runs for President, the ambitious Hillary Clinton.-. It is reported and confirmed that President Clinton’s 2008 campaign strategy in support of his wife came right out of now President in waiting Hillary Clinton’s infamous and long-hidden senior thesis on leftist Professor Saul Alinsky who developed ” community organizing” techniques in segregated white Chicago communities with a policy of “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it and polarize it. ” For three weeks in January, 2008 the Clintons and their backers did their best to polarize non-black democrat voters against Obama, bringing up Obama’s admitted past drug use and firing off one-liners like “Lyndon Johnson,” “fairy-tale,” “shuck and jive,” and ‘spade work,” to increasing choruses of anger from liberals and conservatives alike (end of report) but not from the mendicant black community and their tainted activists like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.
@ David
Have you noticed that most contributoprs to the forum prefer to talk about politics and not the gender question. Even many of the women are inhibited.
It is part of our heritage.
Since the introduction of our NO-TAXATION campaign a couple years ago in Barbados, far more adult females than adult males in this country ( and when looking at their various social and professional backgrounds) – have been supportive of the fundamental positions that TAXATION IS EVIL, THEFT IS EVIL, TAXATION IS THEFT, and that TAXATION itself must be Abolished.
We posit that, on one hand, this observation is as a result of many of these same females understanding and knowing evil and wicked exploitation and oppression of almost any kind, when they sense it – and their being of a gender that has been oppressing and suppressing the other gender over the years – and therefore are more likely to be for/remain for, rather than be against, those social, educational, material, financial and other approaches and programmes that have led to/ that are going to/that are going to likely lead to their own greater liberation and freedom, as especially individual females, away from their supporting those social, educational, material, financial and other approaches and programmes that have led to/that are going to/ that are going to likely maintain the marginalization and oppression by males of females overall within an already male dominated society.
On the other hand, we posit that many of these same males understanding and knowing evil wicked exploitation and oppression of almost any kind, when they sense it – and their being of a gender that has been oppressing and suppressing the other gender, since time immemorial, are therefore more likely to be for/remain for, rather than be opposed to, those social, educational, material, financial and other approaches and programmes that have led to/ that are going to/that are going to likely maintain male domination and oppression, especially as individual males, away from supporting those social, educational, material, financial and other approaches and programmes that have led to/that are going to/that are going to likely lead to the lessening of domination and rule by males of females overall in an already male dominated society of Barbados.
Importantly, though, whatever the numbers are of male blacks and male whites/browns in Barbados that support this evil wicked thieving TAXATION system in this governmental system, they must come to the understanding and acceptance that just as patriarchy – as a governing social system in Barbados – must go, so must TAXATION – as another governing system introduced by patriarchal means years ago in this Barbadian society – also go!!
What must also drive right thinking individuals and groups in Barbados towards organizing for the Abolition of this criminal evil wicked oppressive TAXATION system and towards organizing for its replacements in Barbados, must be primarily because TAXATION has its roots in a still too much male dominated European society that waited to late ( generations) to substantially remove patriarchy from Europe.
Clearly patriarchy and TAXATION are two of the fundamental reasons why European society – at this juncture – is dedeveloping and stagnating greatly, and, also, are two of the fundamental reasons why Barbados will also continue – at this time – dedeveloping and stagnating at a very rapid rate – primarily because it has been continuing to represent and practice a very failed very dysfunctional eurocentric westernist oligarchic dependency exploitative model of “development”.
PDC
Inadvertence,
In the fourth and fifth lines, second paragraph, in the above PDC post, it should have been………”and their being of a gender that has been oppressed and suppressed by the other gender over the years”…
Our sincerest apologies.
PDC
The Government is on a pathway to destroy Barbadian society and economy and the blog owner says that he makes no mooney fom this blog but if he aint making mooney he should be making some with the amount of posts and traffic passing through this blog and look how a woman guard at Kensington stop Desmond she say she ain’t care who he is but we must ask if women like duhself because women don’t like duhself so they does dont like other people and they does treat them bad and treat big people like chillun customr service poor because nuff women in um and women, left the men and left duh old parents at the hospital because nuttin is stop these lesbians from hogging the show encourage by this government destroying the place with their stinky attitudes going to uwi and dont care bout a fella
@Balance
Are you implying that Judge Thomas’s votes are anti-black just because he does not support what in his view and mine as well as a myopic agenda?
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I see that you are “bigging’ up self to reassure us that Judge thomas’ views are in perfect alignment with yours.
Judge Thomas’s votes and speak for themselves, the “anti black” wording is yours not mine, but he is a sitting US supreme Court judge whose wife has drawn a large stipend from the American Heritage Foundation with fund raising and other activities on its behalf, she is/was a “Tea party” lobbyist, so if “it walks like a duck” etc.
Your assertion that blacks loved Clinton because he balanced the budget is farcical, blacks liked Clinton because as a group they felt he was in their corner. The majority of the American people gave Clinton a pass for his sexual improprieties and people tend to overlook your indiscretions if they like you, plus they saw that his chief accusers e.g. Henry Hyde were hypocrites who had skeletons in their own closet.
The plight of black people in urban areas of North America and Britain is a subject that one can’t provide an assessment through cursory visits especially for those who come with a closed mind and a built in bias. Next time you go on vacation stick to the Empire State building and the Statue of Liberty or Stonehenge and the Tower of London, that should spare us the critiques of social and economic conditions in those places.
@Hal A
Have you noticed that most contributoprs to the forum prefer to talk about politics and not the gender question.
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The gender question is a complex one especially for those who deal with diverse group of black women i.e. Caribbean,African, North American and black women whose religious back ground is non Christian.
I will try to put in my two cents later.
Sargeant where did you get your information from. If Thomas was a Democrat you would have never gotten a peep out of those who oppose his. That’s why we as a black people will never get anywhere. All blacks are to think alike and if you have different views from those that are so called main stream then you have a problem. Look at Bill Clinton if he was a republican what do you think would have happened to him. Also look at the things that he said about President Obama and he is still revered in the black community. I don’t know if you recall them saying that he was the first black president. What did he do for black people? All he did was to kick black pepople off the welfare rolls. You are not supposed to be a black and be a conservative.
I say Amen to you Erskine!
In Barbadian society, we are not addressing the issues
There is a bit too much ‘discussion’
very little in the way of action.
Paradigm shift ?
============================
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagga –
reading about somewhere
named the Magellan strait
The plight of black people in urban areas of North America and Britain is a subject that one can’t provide an assessment through cursory visits especially for those who come with a closed mind and a built in bias”
I have no apologies to make for my racist bias but it seems i have touched a raw nerve. I trust you are not one fooled by the Democratic agenda.However, my visits to these decadent places were not cursory but planned and systematic so i could speak from a position of knowledge and not speculation. How can one address the gender issue and exclude political discourse.
I believed Anita Hill, knowing personally that a black supreme court nominee would be protected by the conservatives a la bush et al even if he raped a black woman, did not surprise me one little bit. Thomas when asked to jump, can only ask how high, he has not the balls or desire to question or divert away from his master’s wishes. a true uncle tom, not unlike the black caribbean leaders who are not true heads of states of the islands they claim to lead.
Perhaps, I need to get my hands on the BOOK called ( The Black Man’s Guide for Understanding the Black Woman? Lol
@ Well Well
The statement that you just made just proves the point. if someone beliefs are different from yours then there is going to be hell to pay. if Thomas belief was the same as yours and he was accuse of the same thing would you feel the same way. I doubt it very much, Thomas does not believe in what you believe in so he is an uncle tom. That is why we as a black people are going to remain just where we are because all of us must think alike.
Jean Lowry IICA’s representative to Barbados , says more land need to be put in to farming,, Little does she knows the owner of the land never move the land out of farming, So the is still farm land ,
Blocking the land are lawyers and Ministers looking to make money from fraud good titles and not Lawful Clear Titles ,
As soon as The DBLP government admit the fraud of the BLP under Owne and Mia , not till then can Barbados move on , Mia and Owen need to Audited t see what Laws were broken under color of LAW.
The World deals with Clear Titles . ,, not fraud good lawyer made up titles,
More Monies will be pulled back from this Government unless they can get their books in order,
United Nations held its 58th Commission on the Status of Women,
Well lets get to talking of the Status of Beatrice Henry and Violet Beckles of Barbados,The Two Missing Queens in the Bajan Royal Family His-Herstory.
Erskine said:
“the point. if someone beliefs are different from yours then there is going to be hell to pay.”
Just the opposite holds for me Erskine, it’s just i know the US system of injustice against blacks very well and when they have a BLACK MAN/WOMAN that they can manipulate, to, eg, use the whip on their own, they protect him/her to the max until they are ready to also use the whip on his/her ass.
Ok Well Well i amy believe you but how many people can make the statement and be sincere not many people. it is a well known fact expecially in these good ole US of a that if you are black you Must be a democrat and the emphasis is black. You can’t be black and advocate for self suffiency in this country. if one talks about standing on ones two feet and do for self then one is an uncle tom. That is why we as a black people are in the situation that we are in today. We are always taught to depend on the white man. i don’t think it’s a matter of manipulation it is a matter of thinking for one self. For example who is our black leaders that we are following today, Sharpton and Jessie Jackson mean time they are all millionaires and the people that are following them blindly are remeining in the same situation. Do you see people like Sharpton protesting anymore, he is on tv now making hundreds of thousands of dollars per year and the socalled stars and celiberities are filling his coffers with loads of money. All blacks are not one and we should not all think alike either. That’s just my point.
Blacks love Clinton because he was able to balanced the budget . What a load of cow crap! You can’t possibly be serious and if you are psycho- therapy is in order. You’re beginning to sound more like Georgie Porgie; can’t make a conspicuous demarcation between fact or fiction.
Totally off topic; BUT to lighten up the conversation; this is from Barbados Today.
More than 2600 cannabis plants have been confiscated by lawmen in their latest drug eradication operations.
The exercise, conducted by members of the Marine Unit yesterday, in St. Peter and St. John led to the discovery of 227 plants in Road View; 2026 in Pot House; 106 in Hothersal; and 225 in Henley.
How good is that – 2026 cannabis plants in “Pot House”
@ Due Diligence | March 14, 2014 at 4:17 PM |
What ever became of the economic development policy of import substitution?
How stupidly backward can a country become? Instead of looking forward with proactive policy measures we have a hypocritical country more blindly conservative than an Amish community.
Here we have the State of Colorado (with others soon to follow) looking to capitalize on a new source of tax revenues and economic activity but for a fiscally crippled tropical country living in the dark ages of legalized morality certainly will lead to its economic mortality.
Even St. Vincent and Jamaica will be ahead in the race to maximize their own homegrown industry.
Barbados will continue to experience a significant leakage of foreign exchange (much of its failing to find its way in the mainstream economy) to pay for the imported variety either landed or interdicted.
Maximize your Potential Bajan Pot growers
@Hal
The blog is a reflection of local norms and you are correct to conclude there is a discomfort discussing gender issues ESPECIALLY Black on Black.
Thomas is a brilliant individual and deserving of his post on the high court. To bring up these issues again now is very dissapointing and maybe Hal has run out of topics to discuss.
I would like to say that Anita to Thomas is like Monica to Bill, but i am sure Bill had much more influence over a younger lady, while the other relationship was likely more acceptable to both parties.
Hal, please try to move on in life and not continually go back into history to drag us down. You are an anti leader.
@ David
One of the black male myths is that we know our females; but in any social gathering just keep quiet and listening to women talking about social and political issues and note the interpretation of social experience.
We have a lot to learn as men and time is running out.
In the US a large number of professional black women now prefer partners from other ethnic groups. In Barbados for a generation the partner of choice was Jamaican – which to me is insignificant, but to some nationality is important.
David, unless we talk there will be a lot more of this.
@Hal
There is the view hypothesis that the behaviour of Black males is linked to when we had to go out and work to provide for the family and Black women stayed at home or performed a very menial job. This gave rise to the attitude that the man was dominant and the woman a support person. Whites have had a head start diluting this behaviour however some Blacks seem to have it still embedded in their DNA. A theory posited by some.
Good morning ..bird cage people ..the light is coming up ..let the unpadlocking begin…Hal ..Anita was wrong she shouldn’t of said anything ?…Is this mindset not a major problem in communities that allows criminals and others to prey on their own? People must confront their attackers, root out the criminals that are ruining this world if not ..at the very least invest in wrought iron stocks.
Why do we like to genarelise about males and furthermore breaking it down to the human construct of black and white,which has no basis in science or logic.Human behaviour is based on their environment and socialisation.
David I remember quite well my father coming home and giving my mother his pay packet, she would give him back a little for a couple of pints we would get an allowance and the rest was for the essentials. It was the same at all my friends houses .The women ran the house, more dependable this sometimes on top of them working outside the home. This was more of a universal thing than dna thing I believe in those years.
@Vincent
It is framed in Black and White because the contruct of Caribbean society given the legacy of slavery is a reality only the blind will ignore.
@lawson
Will attempt to research the issue of domestic abuse in the races if time allows.
David….Come down to Newcastle,St.John and try to explain that statement.
@Vincent
The Red Shanks may exhibit or might have BUT because they have the appearence of being White are have been able to assimulate in a predominant Black space. With resultant benefits.
Vincent
Now, if human behaviour is conducive to enenvironment and socialization as you have stated so well. Then, how do you explain the behaviour of my small dog, which was given to me a few days of its birth and who has never once socialize with other dogs but models sexual behaviour on the toys around the home? Now, should I believe the Germany philosopher Gottfried Wilhelm, when he states that, ” The human mind at birth contains inclinations, dispositions, tendencies, or natural potentials to form ideas.” Or should I believe the British empiricist philosopher John Locke, when he states that, ” We are born with a blank slate, or tabula rasa”.
Vincent
There is a book called ( The Mind in the Making) written by James Harvey Robinson; get your hands on a copy brother.
David
The roles imposed upon the men as well as women within western society are conducive and predicated upon the Judeo Christian ethics and evolutionary concepts of hunter -gatherer. For example: in some tribes in Africa and throughout South America and Asia for that matter, the woman is the main provider.
@Dompey
BU is inclined to be of such a position.
David….chuckle……try again….
@Hal
In the US a large number of professional black women now prefer partners from other ethnic groups. In Barbados for a generation the partner of choice was Jamaican – which to me is insignificant, but to some nationality is important
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Where do you get your statistics? The rate of interracial relationships is rising all over North America (I am told that in Britain it is very significant) but do we know whether the parties involved see it as choice i.e. preference or are there other factors that bring people together?
As you pointed out earlier black women on average tend to be better educated than black males since a higher percentage go on to postsecondary education and more go on to graduate school. However I still think that their preference will be to partner with someone of the same background as theirs, but the better educated you are the more difficult it is to find someone within your peer group when the black males also have choices and are busy surveying the competition. Black women will then have the choice of “marrying down” or marry someone who has the same education level no matter the race/ethnic background. Black men also tend to be intimidated by women who have achieved a higher level of education than they have since the female will have more earning power they think that control of the purse strings will be in the hands of the higher earning partner and their manhood would suffer.
One last thing, nothing infuriates black women in North America more than the optics of high profile black males i.e. Sports, Entertainment, Politics etc. partnered with a female of another race, perhaps it is the same in Britain you should ask around.
@Erskine C Miller
I don’t know if you recall them saying that he was the first black president. What did he do for black people? All he did was to kick black pepople off the welfare rolls
&
You can’t be black and advocate for self suffiency in this country. if one talks about standing on ones two feet and do for self then one is an uncle tom.
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Those two statements were in your posts, if you want to frame an argument you should be at least consistent, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. The very act of separating people from welfare should make them stand on their two feet.
Capiche?
If caswelll is so positive on legal ground….why! he use the same information in his weekly column in the nation…..i guess here on BU is where all the sh…it can be unloaded without fear of reprisal.
@ David
Male domestic abuse is one of power and the exercise of that power. Being humiliated by the white boss is no excuse to be violent with your partner and children at home.
We all lived these experiences. As a young man, not yet 21, I went out with a Jamaica girl in Harlesden and her family thought it was the worst thing to happen to them, their daughter going out with a Bajan.
As a young man I also went out with a London born, London trained medical doctor of Nigerian/Ghanaian parentage who saw our relationship as that of a mixed couple.
In the end relationships are between two individuals. By the way, we live in a society in which a large number of so=called \New Barbadians go through the fraud of arranged marriages, often as a way of bypassing immigration restrictions and people tolerate this medieval cultural practice.
This too is something we should talk about.
Erskine…….i could not agree with you more, it’s all about sound bytes, celebrity and millionaire status in the US, unfortunately blacks who think independently are castigated and the black ‘leaders’ in the west who are easily manipulated are allowed to carry on the centuries old crap of fooling their own people
Dompey…..it also happens in the animal kingdom, the male lion sleeps all day, the female finds food for the young., in my opinion, the male is just lazy….lol
Hal Austin
” Being humiliated by the white boss is no excuse to be violent with your partner and children at home”
Hal that is load of crap and you know it. I have been residing in America close to thirty years and I’ve neither heard nor have I read of any black man in America abusing his wife and kids because some white boss is pressuring him on the job.
In America the black man solves that problem through the barrel of a gun. Now Hal, if you’re speaking about the British context/ narrative, then please make it crystal clear for those of us who do not know any better?
@ dompey | March 15, 2014 at 1:52 PM |
“In America the black man solves that problem through the barrel of a gun.”
Which gun is that? The one in his trousers?
Black men know their places and don’t mess around white men. Because there is only one outcome jail with possible life on death row.
Black men (including the ‘passing-for-white’ Obzocky Fenty) have been brainwashed and religiously programmed to defer to and be submissively subservient to white authority in all forms in the name of their sweet white baby jesus.
White men don’t fear black men in the world of work or business. Only their access to white women.
Mill, do you living in America?
Miller, If the question is no… then it’s best you keep your mouth shut.
Miller …. What??? You think those chubbettes that frequent your shores are wanted back home please Black guys are no less fearful that one of there girls may exit the herd for a white guy with money. I know you think a beach bum is on every white womens bucket list but not so.
@ dompey | March 15, 2014 at 2:24 PM |
Yes!
Just like Mark Fenty (whose father was known to the police) I was raised in Station Hill went to school in Roebuck Street and emigrated to America to join the Marines as a pot scrubber and potato peeler.
Miller
Two years ago in state of Connecticut where I happen to reside. A young black kid by the name if Omar Turton: shot to death fifteen of his white coworkers because he thought their were discriminating against him. Unfortunately, he turned the gun on himself after he said goodbye to his love ones.
@ lawson | March 15, 2014 at 2:27 PM |
“I know you think a beach bum is on every white womens bucket list but not so.”
“Bucket list”! Why not, if they are on their last legs
on their way out! LOL!!!
The Bucket List is a magnificent film with some great acting that should be on every movie buff’s ‘bucket list of movies to watch “before I die” sort of scenario.
Morgan Freeman was brilliant in his role. The movie is one that cuts all across all racial, cultural, class and stereotyping barriers and strip human life down t its frailest components exposing the real meaning of life.
What is your comment , lawson!
Miller,
Yes, my father was raised in Station Hill but he was never known to police. Who are you?
The main problem, in my opinion about this piece is that it it assumes that we in the Caribbean have not been paying attention to gender issues. This is not so. Also, to say that Ms. Hill should not have brought the charges /accusatons against Thomas is quite confusing to me. I do agree with those who suggest that we are very intolerant of successful blacks such as Thomas. I find both Thomas and Colin Powell to be quite exceptional brothers although I do not support their politics and positions. Also I am delighted that Bill Clinton is being seen for the political fraud he is. I d’ont know what he has done for black americans.
@ William Skinner
You’re probably right about Bill Clinton but there is much more to the story of Bill Clinton’ s life than your infinitesimal account. Arguably, you have to give credit to FDR and LBJ, on whose watch important civil rights legislation in the history of America was passed.
But what makes Clinton different from the other white presidents is his connection with African Americans that was personal and close.
Clinton, grew in the back of his grandfather’s store in Arkansas hanging out with black kids. Now, Clinton’s background, being from the South and from a working class family made him different in the eyes of many African Americans. Come on now Skinner, Clinton hung out with black folk, he understood their music, he understood their culture and more importantly, he understood how to connect with them.
@William Skinner
Skinner, our need for social justice have been realized,
so now is the time for black people to focus on economic empowerment like the Jews. We have to stop relying on others to do for us, what we’re capable of doing for ourselves. And American Africans aren’t the only marginalized people in America in need of federal assistance. What about the Native Americans who have been robbed of they lands and the Asians as well as the Hispanics and the poor white Americans?
@ dompey
Bill Clinton spent almost his entire last term trying to escape impeachment and prison.What did he do for Afro americans? There are many white folk who connect with black and visa versa at the social and perhaps cultural level that does not necessarily mean that in either case their political agenda is helpful. Clinton is the ultimate political animal, who after all the grandstanding still made racist remarks about President Obama, when he realised that Obama was a threat to his wife Hilary
Your point about Blacks fighting for economic equality and not waiting on the system to provide it for them is taken. This can be applied to Afro Americans and Afro Caribbean peoples..
@ William Skinner,
Now, Skinner, do not misconstrue the objective of my comment but what has Obama done for black folk in America? Believe me when I say that I love the man but what has he really done to impact the social as well as the economic conditions of black folk in America? Yes, I am cognizant of the fact that he was up against the obstructionist tactics of the Republican Party as well as Tea Party members in the Congress. And this I believed, has
curtailed a lot of his original agenda! But I am also cognizant of how President Obama has utilized his executive orders to by passed the legislative arm of the Congress on numerous occasions. So why hasn’t he use the same executive orders , as he had done in the case of the Hispanics with the Dream Act; to address some of the pressing concerns in the black community?
Dompey……….you also have to be cognizant of the ultra conservative democrats in the party who are really republicans dressed up as democrats and of which there are many, it’s no easy road for Obama, i personally would prefer not walk a mile in his shoes.
William Skinner
I am sure you recall when Jess Jackson was caught on tape making derogatory remarks about President Obama, but you were quick to dismissed his remarks and eager to point to Clinton’s racist ones.
Well Well
I understand all of that but it still hasn’t stopped President Obama from utilizing his executive orders to achieve his objectives. He has been accused by the right of exercising dictatorial power as well as undermining the tenets of Constitution but how else is he to get anything done? In view of the obstructionist and narrow minded politics designed to undermined his presidency.
@William Skinner
Also I am delighted that Bill Clinton is being seen for the political fraud he is. I d’ont know what he has done for black americans
In the not too distant future the cry will arise “what did Barack Obama do for black people?” ( I should say that it has already started via Tavis Smiley and Cornel West) and we can expect the same from the displaced factory worker whose job has been outsourced or the military veteran who has returned from some ill conceived conflict and is suffering from some psychological or bodily injury or the Coal miner whose mine has closed or those who lost homes and fortunes when the market collapsed and their jobs disappeared.
We are living in a time of “what have you done for me lately” and presidential power is not absolute nor are they elected to serve only the interest of black people. We are a few years removed from being the largest minority and our minimal ability to shape politics and policy will be further eroded as time goes by.
Many white Americans are in the same poverty stricken boat as black Americans ( the states with the largest number of those receiving Gov’t assistance of one kind or another are so called “Red States”) but in an increasing Kochified America people often vote against their interests without realizing that the interest of the other ‘‘havenots” are same as theirs.
The sooner the marginalized (both black and white) join forces to fight against those who are entrenched in power and promote the interests of those who see only green is the day that we won’t have to wonder about what any President has done to help people of any colour or stripe.
I should have made a demarcation between Skinner’s comments and mine
@dompey, Sargeant Well Well
I am not an Obama fanatic and I certainly never expected Obama to give Afro Americans any preferential treatment. Obama is a politician, who distanced himself from his religious leader , Rev. Wright, in order to appease white America. Obama did not run his campaign on any promise to save Afro Americans, so he has not disappointed or surprised me.
I was just saying that even the “beloved” Bill Clinton used the race card when it was convenient.
The President power and responsible is to sign the sound and well intended legislations enacted by the Congress to ensure that the private as well as the public sectors function in such away as to served the collective needs and concerns of the American people. This idea that a president should career to a specific group of people because he is the same skin type, ought to be repudiated because it does not in any meaningful way reflect the contemporary American ideals.
@ William Skinner
Obama distanced himself from Rev. Wright on the accounted of his campaign advisors, to ensure his possibly victory. Let’s not get it twisted brother because I do not think that it was done to appeased the collective fears of the American people.
“The sooner the marginalized (both black and white) join forces to fight against those who are entrenched in power and promote the interests of those who see only green is the day that we won’t have to wonder about what any President has done to help people of any colour or stripe.”
Excellent analytical summary, Mr Sarge.
“or the military veteran who has returned from some ill conceived conflict and is suffering from some psychological or bodily injury”
ILLCONCEIVED might very well be a figment of our imagination if credence is to be given to the widely held view by those who control us that ” WAR IS THE ESSENTIAL ECONOMIC STABILIZER OF MODERN SOCIETIES”. War, basically stimulates the economy by producing jobs and industrial development. Let me make it clear Sarge that I am not outlining a position just regurgitating for the benefit of commentators details of what I have read in relation to the Iron Mountain report of a “Top Secret” study ordered by President Kennedy in 1961.
@Balance
“War, basically stimulates the economy by producing jobs and industrial development”
That might have been true in the case of WW2, Korea, and Vietnam but it certainty wasn’t true for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. During the above mentioned wars there were factories throughout the country producing the hardware for the war effort on a prolific scale. But we certainly haven’t seen much of that with respect to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And as a matter of fact, we certainly haven’t forgotten Defense Secretary Donald Rumfeld famous words when the soldiers were on CBS and CNN pleading for better equipment. He said and I quote: ” YOU GO TO WAR WITH THE ARMY YOU HAVE-NOT THE ARMY YOU MIGHT WANT OR WISH TO HAVE.”
Balance
That latter statement ended Rumfeld career with a quick dispatched.
“By the way, we live in a society in which a large number of so=called \New Barbadians go through the fraud of arranged marriages, often as a way of bypassing immigration restrictions and people tolerate this medieval cultural practice.
This too is something we should talk about.”
‘If thy right or left hand offend thee cut it off” remove the iniquitous immigration restrictions and no marriages would have to be arranged and deemed to fraudulent because some fraudulent group of persons so dictate.
@David March 15, 2014 at 7:33 AM @lawson “David | March 15, 2014 at 7:33 AM @lawson “Will attempt to research the issue of domestic abuse in the races if time allows.”
No need for research David. Bajan society was born and nurtured in violence. White Bajans are as violent or more violent than black Bajans. As a white Bajan woman has said to me “where do you think that the black men learned their bad behaviour?”
When I was at elementary school in the early 60’s the woman who was our next door neighbour was a retired plantation driver. A driver did not drive a vehicle. A driver drove people to work harder and harder, and harder and was given a whip by the plantation owner to ensure the worker’s compliance. This woman had spent her lifetime driving children picking pond grass on the plantation, and she had a whip and authority given to her by the plantation and the state to beat the children if they did not work hard enough and fast enough.
Why do we feel the need to pretend otherwise.
Barbados is still very much a posts-slavery society. Men beat their wives and girlfriends, women beat their children, teachers beat their pupils.
Note that nobody beats white Bajan men.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
“where do you think that the black men learned their bad behaviour?”
Correct answer: On the very successful sugar plantations.
Success meant beating everybody, except the white men who benefited most from the plantation economy.
Simple Simon
You’re spewing utter nonsense Mr. As a matter of fact, you’re insulting the intelligence of people who knows better. Have you taken the time to challenge the hypothesis this woman related to you donkey years ago? It seems as though you have accepted what this woman had related to you with out examining it with the tools of common sense and reason? Your statement obviously reinforces the stereotype which wants us to accept the view
that just because the black man had no written tradition, that he was somehow incapable of thinking independently.
Simple Simon
The African slave was a sentient being who understood his world through his signs’ symbols and unique dialect.
Simple Simon
The 13th century Jewish theologian, philosopher and medical doctor Moses Miamonides, informs us in no uncertain terms to,” Follow the truth no matter the source.” He was famous for synthesizing Aristotelian philosophy with Jewish theology.
Hal……..check your email, new address
Still an argument waiting to be debated in 2018.
This is still a serious argument, even if David cannot help editing people’s views. Simple: if you edit someone’s views they are no longer that person’s views. But read on.
Still worth a serious discussion.
Here it is.
Still worth debating after six years.