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Barbadian Author Andrea Stuart Discusses her Book Sugar in the Blood

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Listen to Barbadian author Andrea Stuart gives a riveting insight into her book Sugar in the Blood at the Barbados High Commission in London. An introduction is given by Barbadian historian Richard Drayton who is the widely respected Rhodes Professor of Imperial History at King’s College London. The book launch comes at an interesting time with a reparation claim being explored by Caricom. The book highlights how the history of Barbados and England is forever intertwined. Sugar built Britain on the backs of slaves.

 

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112 responses to “Barbadian Author Andrea Stuart Discusses her Book Sugar in the Blood”

  1. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Yes, the ancestor thing IS very OT isn’t it. I thought we’d moved on.

  2. John Avatar
    John

    RR

    I doubt there are many literary critics on here as I can’t remember many, if any books being critiqued here.

    What I found from my forays into history on this blog is that many bloggers do not read and have difficulty moving beyond the tired old brain washing that passes for Bajan history.

    There are even a couple who have professed to have learnt everything they need to know since the sixties and are not interested in learning anything more.

  3. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    John

    ‘Brainwashing’

    You got that right for sure.

  4. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @Ross. I am old. I wear bed socks in the bedroom to keep the old feet warm. What I want to know is how you know that I don’t wear anything else. You been peepin?

    As far as this book in concerned, if somebody will lend you a copy, read it. Only then can anyone be in a position to critique it. As far as I am concerned, it is like reading the books of Jean Palaidy (I think that is how you spell it) – historical in subject, but novels, except that Miss Palaidy is both more meticulous in historical fact and research and interesting in content. The problem with this book is it does purport to be a historical work, regardless of what the author may say. It is not intended to be a novel. There is no story line. It is intended to be taken as an authorotative historical work – and it ISN’T! Please don’t ask me to go into details. If you want to know what is wrong with it, read it and see.

    And Ross, as you well know, I completely agree with David (BU)’s comments in Tales From The Courts and I do sincerely think that this is a timely and necessary expose of what passes for a justice system and costs the taxpayers so much money to support. But you know that and that is as far as I am prepared to go with that one, as I am concentrating on this book that I have, for my sins, read. And there is a positive side – it will cure insomnia. INSTANTLY!

  5. David Avatar
    David

    @John

    BU can’t be all things to all men.

  6. Cyprian La Touché Avatar
    Cyprian La Touché

    P.S.
    We have been celebrating all week the passing of who may be considered unanimously by almost the entire planet to THE man amount men. More than anybody he would have earned the right to be bitter and demand reparations from a white population but what did he do? Not forget, not ignore or pretend lit never happened but IMMEDIATELY began to bring everybody together and BUILD something!
    He choose to give and give and give again because he KNEW that then he would receive a thousand fold.
    Maybe now you may get my point. There is nothing wrong with self publishing but one person cannot achieve anything on their own. It takes others to promote them, support them, encourage them and so structure the climate for them to produce even and ever more superior work!
    There are many talented and hard working authors on this island toiling away in obscurity and giving of their best, but you know what (?), they are doomed because everybody around them is about what they can GET before what they can give!
    Why would I seek to discourage anybody?
    Who am I to criticize their work? Each and every piece of cloth has its owner. What you may like I may not so there are markets available for EVERYBODY!
    Important noteworthy and relevant work is being all the time. Works by Ralph Thorne and ALVIN CUMMINS (for full disclosure MY uncle!) deal with relatively periods and situations not well served by most other current mainstream efforts.
    Works by Ralph Jemmott and Hilary Beckles again are special pieces of undeniable and incredible value to understanding the bases this society is built on.
    But.
    They will get NOWHERE unless WE recognize and TAKE them there!
    To me it is NOT enough to just wish them “good luck” and expect that magically someone else will “discover” them.
    THAT is why we are exactly where we are right now!

    Cyprian

  7. Cyprian La Touché Avatar
    Cyprian La Touché

    @everybody

    When prose is poetry and poetry prose which on should it intend to be?

    I abandoned long ago the idea that expression can/should/must (!) indeed be so neatly pigeonholed and neatly classified and neatly trapped – (!) for the sake of my mental convenience.
    What are THE “rules” that I should stick to? What are the reasons behind our reasoning? What ultimately IS important?
    For me the answer is simple.

    IT IS WHAT I WANT TO MATTER.

    The purpose is to communicate whatever the author wants to whomever they want to get it. It doesn’t even have to be you or me, it could be to themselves. It could be all about screaming at the Universe or it could just as easily be about communicating idea for purpose of common purpose. All that matters is;
    Does it work?
    Art indeed is not only in the eye of the beholder, but also (first) in the mind of the creator.

    Cyprian

  8. Mark Fenty Avatar
    Mark Fenty

    I know that this comment is somewhat digressive of the topic at hand, but it ought to be examine anyway. Now, where are the Barbadian academics of like of Dr. Arthur Lewis and Dr. Eric Williams?

    Men with the kind of academic achievements that has trancended the small shores of the Caribbean archipelago.

    Now, Perhaps, it is my own wilful ignorance, but I am not aware of any Barbadian who has achieved international recognition, based on his or her academic excellence.

  9. Cyprian La Touché Avatar
    Cyprian La Touché

    P.S.
    You know I have never thought of Richard as a Guyanese. As a matter of fact when I really think of it EVERYBODY who went to KOLIJ with me at that time was and will always be to me BAJAN! Those sort of distinctions were never important to any of us as children. As far as we were concerned we were and are KOLIJ boys and as such will always be our identity.
    And this really brings home the point. Just because you were born somewhere that is NOT necessarily who you identify yourself as. So people born in Barbados but live all their formative years in the U.S. as far as I am concerned have more reason to be considered American than anything else.
    You love Barbados? You believe in Barbados and the common values and perspectives we share here? You will bleed for this rock?
    You are a BAJAN! End of story.
    Cyprian

  10. call a spade Avatar
    call a spade

    @Cyprian

    If you wish to read a more definitive book on this subject, get The Sugar Barons by Matthew Parker. It is on the long side, but very thorough. You can google it and get a sense of how it was received.

    A few points of fact about Alex Haley and Roots: The TV series was one of the most watched in the history of American television. I watched it — wouldn’t go out on the night it was showing. The sad thing is, despite the power of the narrative, Haley was disgraced and exposed as a fraud — by his BLACK peers in academia — for claiming that Roots was based on true family history. You can check that out too.

  11. Cyprian La Touché Avatar
    Cyprian La Touché

    @call a spade
    Thanks. I just read the review of The Sugar Barons on the Wall Street Journal. Very interesting and I must note that the new work by Stuart would seem to fit nicely into the space where his book does not really get into the more visceral and complex relationships between slave and master.
    I think I had heard somewhere about Haley’s fall from grace but to be honest as I said before it really doesn’t matter to me. The story is the story and it could have been a thousand stories all experienced by a thousand different slaves over the generations. What is and will always remembered is exactly what you said. The nights it was on EVERYBODY was at home watching and talking about it the next day.

    Cyprian

  12. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Cyorian

    You have written a lot and I’m trying to catch up. But one thing I’m clear about……..
    I will NOT bleed for Pharisaism.

  13. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Cyprian

    I would ask you to look again at your 5.23 comment and see whether you don’t find some aspects contradictory. Let me give you an example. You say, in effect, that you don’t give a fig for a man’s country of birth and that distinctions of that kind were not (and are not) an issue for you and others as schoolboys. That would also be my position. But then you say that the good professor was, to you, “BAJAN”, that the author is “BAJAN” (despite her south London accent), that you would die for the shared values (you what?) of BIM and so on. Now which is it?

    It is the kind of contradiction in your first post (I think). You say you haven’t read the book but eulogize it because it was promoted by a trusted friend. You then tell us what it’s about, why it’s important to us, why it has the potential for greatness, why it is a work of art (who cares whether it’s poetry or prose) and all the rest. You don’t see the difficulty?

    Amused

    How nice to see you. Look – I know you wear bedsocks. I also know they are orange bedsocks.

  14. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Somewhere above I canvassed the case for greater prominence being given to local writers. As chance would have it, I saw today the piece in yesterday’s Nation by Harry Russell at page 8. In the final paragraphs he says much the same thing but with greater insight, and refers, in particular, to the frustration which must be felt by local writers at the “paltry support” given to them by the reading public (I suppose it exists).

    Which leads me again to say how grateful I feel for this post and I hope there will be more like it and irrespective of whether we can match Cyprian’s enthusiasms.

  15. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    So wait Ross
    …you is Sherlock Holmes now…?
    You don’t think wunna carrying this book thingy too far…?

    ..so the woman write a book … Horay!!
    Cyprian probably like the girl…what he has to read the book for…?

    …just PRAY that ac don’t get any bright ideas ’bout writing nuh damn book…. 🙂

  16. ac Avatar
    ac

    buush tea i already wrote a book. called Barbados Above Ground… expose…. with u the lead character,,,,,,,,,,,,,BTW i would never guess that amused wore orange bed socks , could it be that they glow in the dark……

  17. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    BT

    How nice too. The cynic. But at least there’s humour. We’ll call it ‘festive humour’.

  18. lawson Avatar
    lawson

    All I can say is….. VOICE OF FIRE…..three stripes on a canvas that the Canadian art museum paid a 1.8 million for. We poor mortals that can never understand the meaning behind these works, must be satisfied with the explanation from the people who can dissect the pain , the hurt the exhilaration behind the brush strokes that were able to make this masterpiece. If not for these people I would have spent that money on something stupid like a new mri machine at the childrens hospital. So to those with the that incredible insight that saved me from myself.Thankyou

  19. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    On March 29th Amy Wilentz writing in the New York TImes called Andrea Stuart’s book astounding…minutely researched history…fiery magic of this book…a colorful and complicated narrative…The book is full of wonderful characters…One of the many pleasures of “Sugar in the Blood”…But the book’s importance consists not only in such vivid and specific retellings …There is not a single boring page in this book…this powerful book

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/books/review/sugar-in-the-blood-by-andrea-stuart.html?emc=eta1

  20. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    @lawson December 9, 2013 at 8:06 PM “Sugar was around for thousands of years”

    Wrong lawson.

    Commercial sugar production is only a few hundred years old. Transatlantic slavery was developed to produce sugar.

    Before that time a few ric people and a few country people got a litle bee honey.

    The rest got nothing to sweeten their mouths.

    Why do you think that the whole world is struggling with a sharp rise in diabetes.

    Our bodies have not yet evolved to handle the huge quantities of sugar in modern societies.

    Of course some sugar now is made from sugar beet and from corn.

    But even so corn/maize is a New World crop and was unknown in Europe, Asia or Africa , or Australia until after 1492.

    For hundreds of years form about 1600 to 1850 sugar was the crack cocaine of the age. Very expensive, much coveted. People would do anything to get it and to get the money flowing from it, including enslaving other human beings

  21. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    I merely note that Amy Wilentz, though on Faculty, lists as her principal interest ‘journalism’.

  22. lawson Avatar
    lawson

    Simple Simon to say that sugar cane only came about a few hundred years ago is nonsense ,what do you think the sugarcane was found growing wild in Barbados? if you are talking about the industrial revolution that upped production for a craving Europe that falls in your date bracket I agree. So was it the slaves, the technology or the machinery that produced this bumper sugar crops that Britain was built on?.
    Some sugar comes from beets ,,,,,,how about 60%

  23. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    Dear lawson:

    I said commercial sugar production…Of course the sugar cane is very old, but there is a big difference between sucking a piece of sugar cane and commercial sugar producton

    @lawson “So was it the slaves, the technology or the machinery that produced this bumper sugar crops that Britain was built on?.”

    It was the enslaved people who produced the bumper sugar crops that Britain was built on.

    Wasn’t much machinery…my own father as a boy fed a sugar windmill…brutal hard labour.

  24. Cyprian La Touché Avatar
    Cyprian La Touché

    @everybody

    Indeed I have written a lot, and I do apologize for boring any of you. And BTW I have never met the good lady or have no grand design to win her affections either. To be clear also I am not enthusiastic about the book because it comes recommended by a friend,. I only used that as a frame of reference from which I can with a measure of confidence draw certain (but definitely not all) conclusions.

    Again I must go back to this. You are missing my point to a certain degree. I didn’t start this to really discuss the book. As I say again and again, each piece of cloth in the shop has its owner. You can pass judgement love it or loth it for yourself. What interest me is THE CONVERSATION that it promotes about SLAVERY! About the links that exist between us and them. Between now and then. The chains that bind us irrevocably to a (buried) past.
    As the author said in her interview her intent was to give voice to those forgotten voices. To keep THEM alive!

    So for me this is NOT to be treated as a history book. It is not really about facts and figures and first hand accounts of events so you can quote regurgitate and pass an exam! It is about something far more transcendental, about preserving emotion and passing THAT down through the generations.

    Even after the invention of writing, history has always been recorded and handed down from generation to generation through story. Through voice and around a warm intimate fire on a cold dark night under the same stars that their ancestors saw.
    That connection is what is important to me and that needs to be preserved. It’s not just about the story but everything surrounding it.

    Why are we so afraid to look at ourselves in the mirror of slavery? Especially not here in Barbados that was at the absolute center of probably the worst inhumanity ever known to man for CENTURIES? I have been on this planet for 51 years. I can’t begin to imagine existing under the conditions and knowing nothing else.
    We can’t forget that. We mustn’t forget that.
    That’s what is important to me.
    Cyprian

  25. John Avatar
    John

    “Sugar and Slaves” by Richard Dunn is another book worth a read.

    I think that the similar books on Amazon.com show an effort by various authors to discover what were the historical themes (perhaps theme) that made us what we are today.

    Each one is providing a product with a slight variation on the accepted themes but I think most, if not all fail to arrive at a single theme and reflect naturally, the author’s bias.

    They are all no doubt diligently researched and well written but I do not find any that really come to grips with the actual people who lived at the time.

    Historians love generalisations and to be able to state in a few sentences how things worked at the time they are researching but it just isn’t possible with the human condition, there is always an element of entropy.

    In addition, the customs and mores of a particular era are a part of a continuum and have origins from well before the era being researched.

    The American experience with slavery is quite different from the Barbadian experience, or for that matter the experience in Jamaica, Haiti or Guadeloupe.

    This makes for an almost limitless source of material on which to write.

    In today’s world, internet databases on genealogy bring a new fresh dimension to historical research and threaten many of the past held sacrosanct ideas.

    I like the opportunity for empirical research the internet gives to the average John Public. As I have said in the past, I don’t trust historians to get it right!!

  26. David Avatar
    David

    @John

    A how can a definitive theme be fleshed out if much of the research material is extracted from records created by the a whites. There must of necessity be author biase.

  27. Fox Avatar
    Fox

    The white plantation owners had many questions: how was the conspiracy hatched? how did Bussa and his friends manage to keep it secret in an island as small as Barbados? Can such incidents happen again? There was one decision though: such incidents should not happen once again and for that draconian disciplinary measures were enforced by the British military. Captive and unlucky slaves were summarily executed. Some were shot, some hanged and inspired by the Spanish Inquisition, some slow roasted over fire. The hanged men were left as is to decompose in the heat. Torture and executions were done publicly to intimidate the survivors and force them into compliance.
    – See more at:
    http://varnam.nationalinterest.in/2013/04/disciplined-english-tyranny/

  28. John Avatar
    John

    @John

    A how can a definitive theme be fleshed out if much of the research material is extracted from records created by the a whites. There must of necessity be author biase.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The data which gives rise to a particular theme to which I refer are found in parochial Baptismal, marriage and burial records which are in themselves incomplete. Some gaps can be plugged by the data contained in secular wills and deeds.

    This data continues to be kept ….. by the relevant authorities at it was from the year dot.

    Did you know that like most slaves at the time that records of numerous (I am beginning to think most) “whites” as you call them do not exist in the parochial baptismal and marriage registers?

    This occurs because many (I think most) “whites” were not members of the Anglican Church and did not get baptized period and were not married in the Anglican Church!!!!

    Thus, if you look at burials vs baptisms at the time of the 1689 census you will find that there were almost twice the amount of burials as there were baptisms.

    This I think is because most “whites” did not get baptized in the Anglican Church at the time!!

    Fewer slaves did either!!

    I think this realization is the beginning of the understanding how Barbados became Barbados and is the beginning of arriving at what I believe is a definitive theme.

    In other words, it is the absence of data rather than its presence which leads me to this conclusion!!

    Historians peruse the empirical records looking for themes as presented therein and then write their conclusions, which we then read. I am saying I think they have missed a, perhaps the, basic theme because of the absence of records.

    Sometimes what is not there is as important as what is!!

    Thus, it is the absence of records, not the presence of records which I think is the key.

  29. Cyprian La Touché Avatar
    Cyprian La Touché

    @John
    Thank you. At last we can begin THE discussion with meaning.
    But.
    Although everything you said is correct remember this is not about searching for the one perfect book or grand overarching thread that best ties everything into one neat convenient package. Rather than speaking of bias first, I choose to say ” perspective”. In that bias is something that will naturally reveal itself in any (opinionated) work. And that will again naturally come because EVERYONE has a different perspective. Both from the points of view that author and order their own character as well as those characters they pen.
    @everybody
    As to the comments way before with respect to this forum NOT being the proper place for intelligent discussion or to present (learn-ed) arguments.
    Why not? Where is a better place? At the University? When is a better time? When my ” betters” bring discussion to the fore and discuss it in the precincts of parliament?
    As far as I am concerned this is the type of discussion I expect to have each and every time I especially take my time to write.
    If I want to “hook up” and talk foolishness then Instagram and Twitter and Facebook is for that. To me this forum should not just be about complaining and bitching and venting and trying to see who can out insult who. Don’t get me wrong, if that is what floats your boat then I would never be a spoil sport and get in between that. But I expect more. I expect a lot more. Maybe I expect indeed too much!
    I find it fascinating that we are so easy to speak and say but not stop and solve.
    What are the solutions to our (little) problems? What must WE do to achieve the desired outcomes? Where do we start?
    Maybe with intelligent conversation.

    Cyprian

  30. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    David

    We all have our subconscious bias’ and some conscious bias’. You do. I do. And Beckles? A machine has a bias too – if it’s programmed that way.

    Which, of course, raises the question: ‘What IS a FACT of history?’

  31. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Cyprian

    ‘The comments way above about this place not being a place for intelligent discussion’

    Now Cyprian – where exactly was that?

  32. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Cyprian speaks of the value of an oral tradition – and he has a point. BUT how often does a story (a version of events) become embellished in the telling?

    Consider the Gospels. The earliest is reckoned to have been written roughly 40 years after Jesus’ death. How then do we KNOW we have his authentic words? Well, we don’t and there is no contemporary ‘sayings’ Gospel (other than a hypothesis and leaving aside Thomas which most think was second century – though not, in fact, me).

  33. lawson Avatar
    lawson

    Harry’s bar………oral tradition……the bajan way … at last a subject with meaning

  34. John Avatar
    John

    Fox

    You can’t imagine how close you are to unraveling the mess our historians have made of our history.

    Your choice of moniker is inspired!!

    Ask yourself WHY is it the 1816 uprising took more than a century to come to fruition?

    If you look simply at the outcome and not what is missing the theme will pass you by!!

    Very often what is missing is what is important!!

  35. David Avatar
    David

    @John

    See Cyprian’s comment. The biase or perspective to use Cyprian’s euphemism must be accepted as a reality based on the source records were created. It is therefore critical to get as many ‘narratives’ in play so that we (especially Black people) can plot overlaps to test for truth.

  36. Cyprian La Touché Avatar
    Cyprian La Touché

    @robert
    VERY often! But so what? Are you looking to read a history book for facts then buy a history book for that! But what importance is fact unless it informs the present?

    And that is not me trying to be contradictory. You can read for the sheer pleasure of the words as they appear on the page. You can read to learn for the sake of expanding your mind and being able to impress your friends on Jeapordy. Or you can read to learn something about a past to inform action in the future. How much does “accuracy” really matter all the time? 1864 as opposed to 1863? He went left at the battle of Hastings instead of the right? It’s all about the IMPORTANT message that you want to take away.

    That’s why I am not worried particularly about bias. It’s like expecting a Christian to write something other than “his” bible. Did a diminutive David really slay the giant Goliath with a pebble? What’s the important point you need from the story?

    Cyprian

  37. Cyprian La Touché Avatar
    Cyprian La Touché

    @robert Ross
    Your 9:38 comment to john on the 10th.about presenting and defending a learned paper. What is that BUT INTELLIGENT conversation?
    Cyprian

  38. lawson Avatar
    lawson

    David I was wondering like in the movie theaters you could put a rating on each article posting. A IQ rating if you will with a bare minimum for each one so I know which ones I can write into. Not knowing the people it is hard for me to tell if they really are that pompous, or arrogant .with a major sense of importance or just having fun. Clearly it is not my intent to offend any massive cranium contributor and add to his lifetime of pain as I sense he and the other Kolij boys (you know they called them that ) were beaten up regularly. If it helps, I am sorry to have said anything about a book that neither of us has read.

  39. Cyprian La Touché Avatar
    Cyprian La Touché

    @ Lawson
    If it is I (me) who are one of these KOLIJ boys who. prompted your comment above as I said before, I really do apologize.
    But.
    As I also said before.
    IT AINT ABOUT THE BOOK!
    We dun talking bout dat ever since!
    Cyprian

  40. Mark Fenty Avatar
    Mark Fenty

    In the pursuit of truth we ought to consider the words of the philosoher Jacob Bronowski, when states that: ” There is no absolute knowledge. And those who claim it, whether scientists or dogmatists, open the door to tragedy. All information is IMPERFECT, we have to treat it with humility. That is that human condition.”

    Or we can also consider the philosophical words of the German existentialist philosopher Karl Jasper, when he states: “As we question reality, we confront borders that an EMPIRICAL or SCIENTIFIC – METHOD, simply cannot transcend.”

  41. Mark Fenty Avatar
    Mark Fenty

    Consider the words of the existentialist philosopher Soren Kierkegaar, when he tells us that, ” Life can only be understood backwards but have to be live forward.”

  42. Mark Fenty Avatar
    Mark Fenty

    So we have before us a compilation of different philosophical perspectives, that speaks to the nature of FACT, and how ought to regard its integrity.

  43. Jason Price Avatar
    Jason Price

    In the famous words of Philosofur Jason Price ‘ Life is an experience-Live it. Life is a mystery; solve it. Life is an adventure ; have it

  44. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Cyprian

    I must ask you again…..where was it said (other than by you) that this was not a place for intelligent conversation? Mind – given your thesis about the irrelevance of facts, I suppose it really doesn’t matter whether it WAS said or not.

    Of course I am gratified that anything I may have said to John is regarded by you as intelligent; and so, since you have every confidence in my capacity for the same, will you now direct your mind to the point I made about the Gospels – or, again, don’t you think it matters whether Jesus said those things or not? Of course, I’m not concerned about whether it was a pebble, or a brick, or a punch in the throat. Whichever it was hardly adds to the fund of human knowledge in your sense.

    On the question of chasing truth through facts – at no point did I suggest that, with Mr Gradgrind, all I want is facts. But then, again, accuracy does seem to have a poor record with you. Do you really prefer ‘spin’?

  45. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Fenty wrote

    “There is no absolute knowledge and those who claim it….open the door to tragedy”.

    Is that aphorism, metaphor or a claim to a universal, absolute knowledge? If the last then you’re in for a rough time.

  46. Cyprian La Touché Avatar
    Cyprian La Touché

    @ross
    Ok my friend. You want to go down that road, let’s take a walk on the wild side.
    Let’s say that Jesus NEVER said or did ANY of the things claimed in that ridiculous work of fiction called “the Bible”!

    What does this mean for all the world?
    True believer, non believer or for those caught somewhere in between – Will everything now change and their world come crashing down around their ears?
    Because of the dreadful lie that was Jesus are now the messages and values and interpretations in this fiction now invalid and in serious need of rethought? Come let anarchy reign!! Will this be the new rallying cry!
    What now?

  47. Cyprian La Touché Avatar
    Cyprian La Touché

    @ross
    And what happens Mr Ross when you ” add to the fund of human knowledge”? Will we become Gods any faster because we have now increased this fund and have “accurate” information? Will all future religious wars now cease because one side or another has absolutely and irrefutably been proven wrong?

    Or even maybe a more important question. Will whatever you uncover in your exhaustive research change the past?
    Will it bring back the millions upon millions of lives lost when you “discover” that the Gospels aren’t really gospel at all?
    No Mr. Ross.

    What may change may be your perspective on the past and your informed action in the future. But if that action is so ONLY predicated on the accuracy of this particular STORY then I suggest you have a far deeper problem than I can solve.

    Accuracy CAN be important. Build a bridge, you better get the numbers right. You want to go somewhere in particular you better know left from right. But accuracy is obviously NOT always necessary.
    So enlighten me. Are your precious Gospels accurate or not?

    Cyprian

  48. Mark Fenty Avatar
    Mark Fenty

    Ross, these philosophical quotes were merely introduced to add some meaure of vivacity, to what I thought was a less than interesting confabulation. And whether rightfully concieved or wrongfully interpreted, their only serves as a medium through which to inform our thinking as to the thinking of others.

  49. Cyprian La Touché Avatar
    Cyprian La Touché

    @ross
    We can spend all night and all day for the rest of your entire life running after accuracy. You can learn something new about the past every second of that entire life and still not get to one percent of everything there is to know. To what point? What really matters is what you DO with what you Do know.
    Cyprian

  50. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Cyprian

    Is there a chance – just a chance – that as this post develops you might just be beginning to utter priggish platitudes?

    Jesus and the crashing world – yes it would for some – but then you give the game away once you refer to the Bible as a “ridiculous work of fiction”. Of course for you, given that premise (upon which I don’t comment), the stars could never be budged from their courses and so you seek to impress your values on what you take to be the values of others or those values YOU SAY they should have, as you repeatedly tell us, busily shifting your ground as you go. I firmly believe you may have missed your vocation. Do you want to join me in Belmont Road?

    Do you want to “become a God” Cyprian? Forgive me for mentioning it. I do so only because you do. Of course, you must understand that for me the whole of life only makes sense if the sun orbits the earth. What about you?

    Fenty

    Yes I realize what you were about. I made the point simply to show, however, that there is a danger in confusing aphorism with exegesis. As for your remark about “a less than interesting confabulation”, I think you have a very strong case and so I’m going to join Lawson at Harry’s. Come if you like.

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