Hal Austin
Introduction:
The recent showdown in Southern Algeria with Jihadist militants has shown once more that globalisation is not just an economic phenomenon, but once that crosses religious, ethnic, cultural and other social conflicts… Globalisation is more so about the movements of people, of the shift of world-leading thinkers and artistes – and the super-rich – to places that previous generations could only think of.
However, this mass movement of people is not just the smooth shift that most liberals would have us believe. It is also about Samuel Huntingdon’s Clash of Civilisation theory. Although heavily criticised, at least on one point Huntington was right: the more we become globalised on a macro level, the more conflicts there are – and will be – at a micro level.
Recently at a diner party of a small group of Barbadians, men and women, all of whom came to Britain in the late 1950s and 60s, one woman, who came as a young teenager in the 1960s, said that she had a perception that racial conflict in Britain was getting much worse. It was an incredibly perceptive observation. This is also my experience, as someone who had actually seen in shop windows in Kensal Rise in North West London advertisements for rooms saying: No blacks, no Irish, no dogs.
Even then the racial tension that is felt every time we leave our homes was not as explosive as it now is – whatever the liberal voice may say. Before he left office, Fred Greaves published a superb Green Paper on immigration, which was quietly kicked in to the long grass. I firmly believe that in time, future generations of Barbadians will come to regret this ill-thought out decision by our current political masters. It was also a huge insult to Fred Greaves, whose style may not be to everyone’s taste, but whose integrity as a public servant could not be questioned.
However, it is important to play the ball and not the man, and the issues raised in the immigration Green Paper are crucial that speak right to the issue of Barbadian-ness and what it means to be a Barbadian. Once we have determined the question of who are we; unless we know who we are and the vision of what we want to achieve, then the future will remain foggy and uncertain.
Are We Alone?
We can draw on a number of other examples of how other nations have integrated their new citizens and residents, from the way the Germany treated the Turks as ‘guest workers’, denying them citizenship; the way Central Americans treated people from the English-speaking Caribbean as ‘aliens’, again refusing to allow generations of ‘Caribbean’ citizens in Costa Rico, Nicaragua, and others from voting, to the way the US treated pre-war Japanese, the history of immigration is dotted with numerous examples of inhumanity.
Then, we have more recent movements such as the UK, France, Canada, and others, who have given full citizenship to new comers, after a long and protracted struggle; then there is the US, which gives citizenship, but with conditions; and, the Dutch, who opted to prevent large concentrations of the Moluccans. The reality is that like Don Blackman said years ago, demographics change everything and if the Barbados you want to experience is the one you knew and loved, then how the nation changes is centrally important. Put simply, it is not in the remit of politicians to enter treaties or agreements, nor of civil servants to grant work permits to people who are not like us. Although Barbados has a long history of immigration and emigration, the new net inflow can put enormous strain on jobs, social services, housing health care, transport and, in time, make demands on our society that are not acceptable. We may find ourselves celebrating religious Holy Days that do not somehow fit in with our traditions, or public signs in languages that we do not recognise, or New Barbadians having schools that teach young people from the earliest age that they are different and better than the native people.
In time, this exceptionalism will lead to contempt and then to violence. We only have to look to Bradford in the North of England, or Whitechapel in London, or Durban in South Africa or the suburbs in Paris, or Mombasa in Kenya, to see an example of how ‘strangers’ can transform entire areas.
In Britain we have seen the same changes with the Caribbean community: Brixton in South London, which is like little Kingston, Norbury, a few miles away, like little Georgetown, Reading is like little Bridgetown.
The point I am trying to make is not that change is not good, or that ‘diversity’ is not something we should welcome, rather, it is that unless the people have endorsed the changes somewhere down the line they could lead to all kinds of trouble. In other words, it is not for politicians to change the make-up of our society without consultation.
Population Growth:
There must also be a national conversation about reproduction rates, given the expanding population and in particular the growing number of people per square mile. In 1931, the population was 156,312, which grew to 192,800 in 1946, and it was felt then that the island was overcrowded; by 1960, it had grown to 232,327, and it is now between 280,000 and 300,000 – no one is certain.
By any measure it is too much for an island just 166 sq miles; this means we must give serious consideration to the size of families, and, even more urgently, the number of dependants we allow in on the ticket of a single provider. Can we continue to allow New Barbadians to have families of seven and eight children, with dependant elderly parents and arranged marriages with partners coming from outside the Caricom/CSME region? Such demographic changes are storing up enormous social problem within the next generation or two.
It would be irresponsible for our current leaders, based on a flawed liberal/social democratic model of social, religious and ethnic integration, to impose on future generations of young Barbadians a culture that is completely alien to anything in their grand national tradition.
It is flattering to think that people from all over the world think our island home is a wonderful place to settle. But at what price? I often wonder if I were English if I would tolerate the way Britain has been transformed over the last fifty years.
There is nothing universal or compelling about such developed nation models of diversity, and although they may work in a certain way in great cities – London, Paris, New York, Los Angeles, Toronto – that does not mean they will work equally tolerably in small island-states. Further, there is no objective evidence that such an integrative model works in reality in any city at all, certainly not in London.
A number of social factors work to hide the flaws and tensions in such a model. First, often when minorities have the numbers that they can form communities within communities and they withdraw from mixing with people from outside their groups, apart from work and the public space. Not even in places of worship, as Caribbean Anglicans have been finding out to their cost since the 1950s.
One observation I often make, which brings a smile to my face, is that though the majority of Irish and Polish in London are Roman Catholics, they attend service in the same churches at different time. If the Catholics go to morning mass on Sundays, the Polish go to evening mass. I also remember spending one Xmas at a guest house in Rockley, owned by a retired optician, and overheard his house guests talking about Barbadians in a rather disparaging way. The assumption was made that because I lived in London I was no longer a Barbadian.
Northern Ireland stands as a good example of how two communities with a common Christian culture, separated only by Protestantism and Catholicism, yet for over forty years have been rioting in the streets and murdering each other because of the perception of being disadvantaged by either group. It is generally estimated that by 2050 the world population will grow by 50 per cent, from just over six billion to over nine billion. So, it is fair to assume, that Barbados, with a population of between 280,000 and 300,000, will grow by between 140,000 and 150,000, giving us a population density of between 1687 people per square mile and 1807. By any reckoning those figures are huge, making us one of the top ten most densely populated nations on earth.
Restrictions:
I believe tough restrictions should be put on all non-Caricom immigrants in the first year, with no benefits payable under any condition and the head of the household having to pay the cost of all state benefits, including health and education. After the first year, benefits will be incremental, depending on the number of people in the household working and their contributions to national insurance and property tax.
I believe that one must be born a Barbadian to be eligible to be a member of parliament or to hold the highest offices of state, a restriction the US imposes only on the president, but there should be other offices. We also have to consider the technical difference between right of residence, citizenship and nationality, along with the right to vote if one is resident overseas and to hold dual nationality – Australia/US/Trinidad/Guyana (at one point)overseas voting, taxation, dual nationality.
Analysis:
Immigrants do not just pack their suitcases of clothing and travel, they bring with them a hidden baggage, the invisible cultural beliefs and values, that will, in time reveal themselves. So, although someone may, for example, come from the backwoods of Africa or the tribal lands of Pakistan, or the home counties of England, to a small island-state with its own inward-looking values, in time the New Barbadians will want to assert themselves – certainly, if not the first generation, then the following ones.
They too want to be proud of their heritage, of their ethnicity, of their religion, of where they came from, just as black Barbadians want to assert their Africanity, and white people their European-ness. With good fortune, these different pathways could merge in a hybridity that defines what it means to be a Barbadian, not the cultural illiteracy that says that Admiral Nelson’s statute should not stand in the centre of Bridgetown because it mis-represents us. No, on the contrary, Barbadian culture is made up of the Irish and Scots and Welsh and English and African – all worked in some way in the burning heat to turn the wildland of Los Barbadoes in to a most habitable place. However, since constitutional independence, Barbadians are in danger of losing faith in our major institutions, including the educational system, the courts and the police, to take further risks with New Barbadians corrupting their way in to the very heart of the nation.
As a nation, we have not done a cost/benefit analysis of ethnic and religious diversity, nor indeed the social policy implications of this radical demographic change. Historically, Barbadians have always been close to some Guyanese, Kittitians, St Lucians and Dominicans, but we share a lot historically and culturally with these nations. We also have to worry about our national reputation, as the Canadians have warned us, and not allow the wealthy to hide their money offshore in our country by being tax fugitives. The rich and famous seeking refuge in our island home must be open and transparent with their home-based tax authorities – and also with the Barbados authorities. We as native Barbadians, need to reclaim our island home. This is an issue that should be at the heart of the general election campaign.
BU agrees with most of the message here. Of course the immediate concern is that an open immigration policy flourished under the Arthur administration.
Hi Hal,
Quote: “Put simply, it is not the remit of politicians to enter treaties on agreements, nor civil servants to grant work permits to people who are not like us.”
Although There is merit in “some” of your suggestions and I am not angry…the above concerns me.
If not politicians or civil servants, may I ask who should sign the agreements? As someone who at first hand had observed the treatment of Turks by the Germans in Germany during the mid 1960s and seen the signs – early 1960s- in England to which you refer. Not the dogs element, just no children, Irish or coloureds.
Living and working in England at the time, “now” I cannot agree with your statement.
” This is an issue that should be at the heart of the general election campaign.” (Hal Austin)
A very enlightening piece. However, Mr. Austin can rest assured, there will be no such discussion in the next elections. The intellectually bankrupt BLP/DLP collective would sell Barbados to the highest bidders and therefore ignore the trends/concerns which he so accurately highlighted.
A fellow immigrant is writing this? From time beginning mankind has traveled and settled in new lands. It is the nature of mankind and it will continue legally and illegally as long as the grass looks greener over the fence. I agree that if someone is immigrating to a new country and a new culture that they should embrace it, but can it be forced if they didn’t? Governments can make it more difficult for people to immigrate but will that stop the illegals? Many will come as tourists and then disappear, how can they stop that? On a small island nation like Barbados with so many unprotected bays where fishing is the livelihood of many, I am sure many illegal people and things come ashore. If Barbados were to adopt a close doors policy will they like that done to them by other countries? The problem arises when governments change laws to accommodate new immigrants and their cultures.
@islandgal
You are correct but there is the benefit of hindsight after decades of immigrant flows and the impact on societies both economic and social. Should we not make decisions based on the learnings now?
For example there was not a problem 15 or 20 years ago of southbound capital flows into our offshore jurisdictions. With the changing economic and geopolitical dynamic read OECD this has changed.
Nothing remains the same.
@ islandgal246 | January 25, 2013 at 8:20 AM |
IG I wish to identify with you on this one. Having lived in other countries I am a bit wary of words laced with hints of jingoism or xenophobia even if they might appear politically attractive and vote pulling to exploit the masses.
Many immigrants are attracted to a country because of economic opportunities or the locals refuse to do certain jobs they find demeaning even if necessary to the maintenance and survival of the society. This kind of economic migration has been taking place since the heydays or golden age of Egypt; whether voluntarily or through forced migration as in the trans-Atlantic Triangular Trade.
What Hal needs to comment on is the cultural enrichment and variegation of the socio-economic landscape that the UK, especially London, has undergone in the last 60 or so years. Without that ethnic and cultural mix from around the world the UK would just be a dull dreary culturally isolated place where bangers and mash would be the staple diet with its indigenous people tapping their feet to Morris dance music instead of Bob Marley “One Love”.
But one thing that can be said about the ‘recent arrivals’ to Bim from the Indian sub-continent is their tenacity to move into and control the commercial life of the country making the blacks look like a bunch of educated servants for life.
They have intelligently not used the illegal route to permanent residence but craftily utilise the contract of marriage to achieve their cultural objective. By not dipping in the local ethnic pool for marriage partners (whether of the mono or multi model) they bring in their spouses for their children from overseas through a contract of ‘arranged’ marriages where family planning through the use of contraceptives is taboo. Blacks on the other hand have been targeted for such population control despite negative growth overall in this ethnic segment. Pushing the widespread use of condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS (although welcome and can’t be gainsaid) also has a concomitant effect of preventing pregnancy as Nature would have it.
With the law on their side and a pretense or keeping up of appearances of marital bliss and strong family ties how can the Immigration officials ever deny them entry or institute quotas.
Economic immigration The head of the phalanx …get on it now before you are behind the curve and refugeed to death .Dont look at Canada for a shining example go down under
We have some points of disagreement that we may get back to later. However, our initial thoughts are that your point of departure is based on a misreading of happening in Egypt, Mali and the wider North African – Sahara regions.
Hal did you analyse our immigration data to see where the immigrants are coming from and at what levels?
“Although Barbados has a long history of immigration and emigration, the new net inflow can put enormous strain on …” (all kinds of stuff).
What are the numbers? Neither the OP nor any of the commenters has given any numbers on the “net inflow”.
What are the numbers? Data, or it didn’t happen. In the absence of numbers, everyone (most especially the OP) is just another know-nothing pissing in the wind.
my parents came to canada as refugees having endured concentration camps. they insisted their children become true canadians, my neighbours on either side in canada are korean, the parents dont speak very much english, the kids however are true canadians having embraced the culture.this is what barbados needs to strive for in its immigration policies.but not my business not a citizen have no say
I came to Canada as an immigrant with my family in the late fifties,we had no money, no family except one uncle, back then you had to get off the boat working, People would do anything than ask for assisstance.no one wanted the stigma of welfare or branded a malingerer. How times have changed. Its not what you can do for your country but what do you owe me. We change Canadian traditions to cater to the new immigrants, we allow people to play our legal system against us we allow our country to be systematically eroded from the one everyone wants to come to, into the mess lot of these people have come from. I like saying Merry Christmas, I dont need Sharia law to replace mine. I think you should have to work in the country and pay taxes for years before you are entitled to a pension Just because someone makes to your shores why do you have to keep them, its bizzare. In your policies Barbados customs and culture must come first and if immigrants dont like it dont come. A special dispensation should be granted to Barbadian scotsmen celebrating Robbie Burns day if they use pudding and souse instead of haggis
Is this the same Lawson an immigrant who thinss I should isolate my business to Barbados’ shores only??? shame on you!!!
Then we have the West Indian immigrants when they have spent years in Europe or North America think that no one else from the West Indies should be allowed to enter these countries and prosper. Some of them especially in Canada drink too much alcohol from LCBO.
Assuming you do have some product worth buying what does that have to do with immigration ,customs and culture?????
Don’t care what u assume, you know what they say about ASS U ME.
Besides the articles relates to people looking for a better economy to immigrate to and prosper, recent statistics show Bajans are now running in droves because of the harsh economic conditions there, I was in Canada recently and saw at least four new families that left Bim because of continuing hardship. If you are thinking about what you can buy from me, i will have to refer you to your females relatives who have been selling such from 12th century to present.
Lawson, I can identify with your experience. I moved to Canada in the early 80s with two suitcases of clothes, etc., an old guitar, and a head full of dreams. After nuff (10) years of night school and working my butt off, I started to experience success. Most importantly, other Canucks I was working with recognized my hard work and contribution to my new home.
I never asked for any charity and I remember one of my bosses (a German immigrant himself) telling me I had the “immigrant mentality” and not to lose it.
After 20 years, I moved to the US and came with the same mentality. I work now for a global company with many immigrants who contribute positively to society. It is the culture of the country that makes immigration a success or failure. If you let people in and then have a culture of resentment, newcomers will cluster together and remain separated from others. Micro cultures will result which does not benefit the country.
Konkieman I agree dont give your culture away. I admire the German,work ethic if he saw you as a hard worker that is a great compliment, there have been other hard working immigrants that came to Canada in waves like the Vietnamese, Portuguese, Italian etc but in the last while we have a let in a mixed bag of people from criminals, and murders to the people who are assets to any country. I see a change coming for the good because even immigrants are starting to get upset that the system is getting fleeced and we are taking a harder stance. But like Barbados we are a nation of lawyers which makes it difficult .We had a boat of illegal immigrants ( who paid large sums) land in BC, lawyers lined up for their cases, its cost us millions looking after these people instead of sending them back while our elderly and war vets get short changed
Being accepted as an immigrant to any country is not a right, and you better be willing to jump through hoops if you really want to live there , you know hoops like dont jump the que work, pay taxes, no criminal activity, those kind of things.
@lawson
Good points and one BU made earlier. What can Barbados learn from other countries when shaping building out our immigration policy/strategy. It is not enough to say that this has been a practice since Adam was a lad. Time enough has passed to establish what works.
@ Yardbroom
The point I am trying to make is that politicians and civil servants cannot, and should not, make decisions that will transform irreversibly the demographics and culture of the nation.
This is something that the people should decide; and if they agree, then that is that.
But such decision have enormous repercussions on the rest of society. I have been involved in the British race relations industry since it was created by Jim Callaghan in 1968; I have also worked briefly for the Commission for Racial Equality and have been a reporter for arguably Britain’s most race conscious newspaper, the Daily Mail, for a number of years.
From all this, I can say, speaking personally, that I do not like all the so-called cultural diversity that has taken place in Britain since that time.
Ask the Fijians, or the Kenyans about the Somalis, or the Vancouveran about the Chinese, or the Sierra Leoneans about the Lebanese, the list is endless.
Since the 1960s we all know how the Hispanics have transformed the demographics of the US; these are serious questions which should form part of the political debate.
Buty in a culture dominated by political yaboo and vulgar abuse, rather than discussing ideas and policies, future generations of Barbadians may not thank us for this huge mistake.
I too like cultural diversity, but I prefer cou cou to tikka masala, or dry spare ribs and egg fried rice. I prefer the church to the mosque, I do not see beauty in the burqa – even though as a young man I went out with a Tunisians.
As a people we must decide who and what we want to be. What is wrong with wanting to be a Barbadian in Barbados?
Is that too much to ask?
I love curry, I love Thai food, I love chinese food, I love creole food which is a mixture of all these influences. Life is like a rainbow of colours and life will be very dull and boring without rainbows! The problem with some people they are so afraid of change that they prefer to drink and eat the same thing all their life. There is good food and bad food as well as good people and bad people. As long as there are humans on this earth they will travel to far off lands to seek their fortunes.
What is the difference between a nun’s habit and a burka? If a woman’s /man’s dress threatens the security of a country then laws must be passed to solve that problem. If I want to go to the east and was requested to dress like the locals by the host country, well it is my choice to visit or not to visit. The same should go for those people from those regions visiting the west. When we try to bend the rules that is where the problems begin.
@ Oh Islandgal don’t be so simple. I am not talking about other ethnic dishes, I love Chinese, I am talking about changing the national dish, which is an expression of culture; this is too simple.
People do travel, I did in the 1960s. But it was not my intention to takeover Britain, nor that of any of my colleagues. I travelled for opportunities.
As yo burqas versus nuns’ habits, this is part of the conversation; this is what France and Switzerland have done. Should we secularise public space, stop everyone from wearing burqas, habits, dog collars, etc?
How would this impact on human rights? All I am calling for is a national conversation. I am not laying down the law.
If four people in burkas showed up at a bank I would be more worried than four nuns showing up You go to there country you follow the rules they come to your country and they will take your rules to court
Hi Hal Austin, January 26, 2013 @11:37AM
You wrote, quote: ” @ Yardbroom The point I am trying to make is that politicians and civil servants cannot, and should not, take decisions that will transform irreversibly the demographics and culture of a nation. This is something that the people should decide, and if they agree, that is that.”
I understand your point. During 2008 here on BU ( Barbados Underground) several topics were written on immigration to Barbados. So much so that one eminent person from Guyana now living in Barbados suggested that we wanted to engage in ETHNIC CLEANSING. I recall Senator Mc Clean and Freundel Stuart later gave a balanced, proportionate and restrained view on immigration to Barbados.
The problem I have is when the people are asked, will it be a referendum and how will the question be phrased. Do you want Muslims, Whites, Blacks etc in Barbados. Even then Civil Servants or Politicians will have to put the results into Law.
Suppose whites in the UK were asked. Do you want Blacks to immigrate and work in England? What do you think would have been their response. History, past deeds and the Commonwealth would have mattered little.
I am aware that certain groups because of cultural traits can put black Barbadians at a disadvantage because of the way they live. Unfortunately Barbadians have always fallen prey to the phone call, when Laws are broken at the behest of so called important people. . . we will pay a heavy price for such deceit.
Our experiences in Europe sometimes allows us to see a picture on a wider canvas. However, “we” cannot with honesty and integrity say the type of people we want in the land of our birth on only the people should decide basis. Having lived and earned a living for a great part of our lives in England & Europe. . in which the people did not decide.
I say that as someone who has had to make decisions as to if people should or should not stay in the UK. On my part it is a question of honesty and integrity, from which I cannot now deviate.
The UK government, based on Hal’s position on culture, should ban Notting HIll Carnival, which would make MOST Daily Mail readers tres happy.
@ Enuff
The government, Greater London Council and Kensington and Chelsea have tried every year to control the carnival – and have done sine 1975, the year of the first riot.
Ken Livingstone, the great leftie, tried moving it to Hyde Park, in previous years; in previous years they have tried moving it to Wormwood Scrubs sn even banning it all together.
Even now if two or three young black men are heading to the carnival they are stopped by police two, three, ten miles away and searched as gangsters.
In fact, a former chairman of the carnival committee, a Barbadian, is at present visiting Barbados to see an ill relative.
Maybe you can get him to give a public talk about the history of carnival.
Fleet Street sees carnival as a criminal event, not street theatre.
Carnival is popular because of the people who support it, not the authorities.
Just look at the condition imposed by the local authority on people who want to set up stalls.
The OP says: “What is wrong with wanting to be a Barbadian in Barbados? Is that too much to ask?”
And to get back to the only question that matters: what are the numbers? Still, days later, neither the OP nor any of the commenters have given any numbers on what the OP calls the “new net inflow”.
What is the magnitude of the “new net inflow” into Barbados? Indeed, is there a “net inflow” into Barbados? What are the numbers?
In the absence of actual data, the OP and all commenters are, again, just pissing in the wind. Only someone with the mind of a child would even try to base an argument on piss in the wind.
What are the numbers? To quote the OP: “is that too much to ask?”
Our immigration rules are set to change.
https://barbadostoday.bb/2019/11/21/nationality-law-changes-are-coming/
This is a good move by the government. We need diverse skills to support creativity, innovation and increase productivity. A low hanging opportunity is to search the diaspora.
@TLSN
This article was a warning six years ago (typos and all) and is still relevant today – even more so – now. The great post-1960s social experiment that has failed is the multi-cultural, multi-religious, multi-ethnic one.
Amazingly, as the rest of the world is moving away from the explosive mixture of peoples (see Brexit), our president, in her wisdom, thinks it a wise idea to introduce even more of this socially toxic mixture to little Barbados. Frightening.
It is a short term fix for long term damage. Whatever short-term satisfaction she thinks she may get, the real damage will be across generations, long after we are all in our graves.
In fact, here she is, prepared to have a so-called referendum (whatever that is) on whether or not we should become a nation of cannabis users and sellers, but some thing as fundamental as a demographic change in the nature of our society she is not even contemplating consulting the people.
Where are the voices of protest? Where is the DLP? Where is Solutions? Where is the church? Where are the independent voices? Where are the voices of protest in the Cabinet?
I have said here before the president is far more intelligent and has a better political brain than Freundel Stuart, but she does not do details, she is not a thinker, she finds it boring.
Had she thought through these silly ideas she would have realised the risks she was toying with; or, if she has, then it is dangerously reckless.
If she is basing this silly plan on productivity, thus economic growth, then this is not the answer. Productivity will come from output per person, which means a change in workplace culture by Barbadians – getting to work on time, taking fewer days off sick, working while at work and not talking nonsense, not walking out on any excuse, introducing up-to-date technology and better regulations.
But these are challenges and would not justify a hand-waving, unscripted speech; they call for administrative competence and our political leaders are not known for that.
In international countries there is basis for increase immigration
Most of those large nations are fully equipped socially and economically to handle a large population
Can the same be said of small nations
Fuh Christ sake most of them are still struggling to dig themselves both socially and economically out of the dark ages making two steps forward and four backwards
For one with increased population the first and foremost question to be asked where is barbados going to get additional landspace to house these people
“For one with increased population the first and foremost question to be asked where is barbados going to get additional landspace to house these people.”
Hmmmmm……..
Let’s put aside the comments relative to the proposed new immigration policy … and concentrate on your above comment for the time being.
You are known to present some very silly criticisms and make up things as you go in an effort to substantiate your criticisms.
Your comment is irrational, silly and not agreeable to reason.
Unless you’re willing to inform us who would ask that question and direct us to any information that suggests Barbados has limited land space for housing?
Few of you note the day for the General Election being clearly stated in this notice of grandfathered citizenship and converted residency.
Where ignorance is bliss tis folly to be wise.
You have all sold your birth rights for a pottage of The Dish called Hyatt Zika
It is the equivalent of Chickengunya on all Barbadian identity FOREVER!
@David et al…
Indeed. Barbadians tend to be extremely well educated. And some of the best and brightest went “away” to seek their fortunes.
There is often a fear of “the other”. This is an evolutionary instinct that as served us relatively well in the past.
But, perhaps, it is time to get past this basic instinct, and think more deeply.
There is a lot to learn from those who are different than we are. Who have had different experiences.
The older I grow, the more I realize just how little I actually know for sure.
And, strangely, those “old folks” I presumed weren’t “in touch” actually are quite wise.
Sorry for going down a personal epiphany “live” in the Bajan Blogosphere.
But this is sincere.
@Chris
Couldn’t have phrased it any better. The world has changed, the world is continuing to change.
Hal,
If you look at the effects that the tourism trade and the real estate industry have had on the landscape of the country and the people of Barbados then it is evident that Bajans (black) will be the ones that will suffer disproportionately.
Expect to see a deep rooted marginalisation of the poor and the middle classes. The locals will be priced out and expect to see a surge in imports.
Chris Halsall means well but he is not sincere. Neither is the moderator.
@TLSN…
I am sincere. Backed up by the fact that I have always posted here using my real name.
Google my name, and you’ll find a bit of history of my being sincere during FTC hearings, and other things.
Please tell us all what to Google with regards to your sincerity.
@Chris
We have people who lack the capacity to entertain another view. Another perspective means the holder is an idiot or buffoon. The reality is that first we are an ageing population and two we have not shown the wit to compete on the global stage. It seems a good idea to attract players of our lieneage who have been exposed to best in class education and work experience.
Sincere means been honest to the reader. I believe that it was either an American or a Canadian developer who believed that Brown’s beach was wasted on the locals as it was considered to be a jewel in the Crown. He reasoned that such an asset should be marketed to the well-off.
You may be a well-meaning decent chap. However there are many businesses people who see life through a prism of monetary value only.
There is enough evidence out there that confirms my fears.
@TLSN… A sincere question:
Are you familiar with the concept of signal to noise?
Presently the social and econmic gap widens between immgrant and black American
There are several plausible reasons which can be given
But the one which (most) has an economic impact on the black american is that the immigrant is willing to work for cheaper wages keeping the minimum wage below a good living standard
Most likely the same would happen here thowing most nationals to a deeper state of poverty
@ Chris Halsall,
History proves to us that we should have fear of “the other”. The island that you are currently inhabiting is a good example of this. Ditto the Americas, South and North America; the Caribbean region, Australia, et al.
Let us just agree to disagree and move on.
@TLSN
History proves to us that the earth would not be as heavily populated with Homo sapiens had it not been for immigration.
Fights have been fought over the years, of course, but this is where we (each) find ourselves.
What matters most now, of course, is what we each do next… 9-)
Did TLSN immigrate to somewhere?
@Hal at 7:04 a.m. “she is not a thinker, she finds it boring.”
So have you rented space in the lady’s head now?
Minister Hinkson was quoted as saying “A growth of even three per cent cannot sustain a country.
Two conflicting stories. One on emigration the other on immigration.
https://barbadostoday.bb/2019/11/22/brexit-could-yield-farm-work-bounty/
https://barbadostoday.bb/2019/11/22/we-need-workers-home-affairs-minister/
@ TLSN
You are absolutely right. To make a bogus claim that Barbadians are extremely well educated is nonsense. Passports for sale will change the social landscape of Barbados for ever. It will be the final betrayal of future generations by this “well educated” generation.
Look at any country that has had large-scale immigration over the last 200 years and I show you a nation in social turmoil: the Italians n Argentina; Eastern Europeans to the US at the turn of the 20th century, and Latinos since the 1960s; the radical transformation of the UK since the war; North Africans in France, the Irish and Southern Europeans in Australia since the potato famine and after the Second World War (nothing to do with how the Aborigines were decimated).
Here is a good example: Jews, who mainly came to the UK before the last war, are the most successful (education and business wise) ethnic and religious group in Britain yet anti-Semitism is rampant. Why? I can go on.
On a little garden, 166 sq miles, ordinary black Barbadians will not get a look in. Of course, the black professional class, those who have betrayed ordinary people since 1966 (look at the crooked lawyers) will fool themselves that they will be able to compete with the new Barbadians. That is a joke.
But, @TLSN, you will not win this argument on BU. This is a Bajan blog.
In what areas will the new immigrant be employed?
Are there new areas of employment that the government will encourage?
What are the characteristics of the desired immigrant?
What is our employment/unemployment rate?
Can this immigration policy be mixed/corrupted with CBI?
Given the water scarcity and the geology of the island is there a limit to the number of people the island can support?
Have all the reason for the ‘lack of growth’ for the local population been explored? There may other reasons than ‘family planning”.
Will we see a paper on this policy or will it be talking in generalities, throwing around numbers and pointing at Singapore.
https://www.straitstimes.com/business/economy/what-will-be-singapores-most-in-demand-jobs-for-2019
The fact TLSN, Hal and Commander Theophillus Gazerts is that WHERE THERE IS NO VISION the people perish!
This is part of the artificial island shy$e and envisioning of a visionless government.
Hal, very soon we will see the two Rented Jackasses Hee Hee and Hee Haw appear, as per the terms of their contract, to deride your comments one of which was
“…Passports for sale will change the social landscape of Barbados for ever.
It will be the final betrayal of future generations by this “well educated” generation…”
I really wonder how many of Barbados’ sheeple or its people UNDERSTAND THE GRAVITY OF CITIZENSHIP BY INVESTMENT especially on a 166 square mile rock WHERE RIGHT NOW IDIOTS IN THE IMMIGRATION DEPARTMENT CANT EVEN PROCESS APPLICATIONS FOR A NON NATIONAL TO SUPERCEDE A BAJAN FOR A LOCAL JOB!
I am not even going to mention the extensive list of issues that Commander Gazerts adds!
But you know what, this floundering half assed shooting off one’s gun in all directions IS INDICATIVE OF A GOVERNMENT THAT IS LOST!
As is clearly evident by the FLYING-ALL-OVER-THE-WORLD economic recovery programme that the minibus sized Prime Minister has embarked on!
It’s the classic version of ” A first class plane trip,AND WINE , will pass the TIME” Mugabe’s version of A STITCH IN TIME SAVES NINE!
But ingrunt bajans CANNOT SEE THAT while the land they like singing bout in the Barbados anthem IS RAPIDLY BEING CEDED TO THE FOREIGNERS.
Say goodbye to our version of “twilight’s LAST GLEAMING!”
The fact is that it is easy to oppose for the sake of it. Barbados has a problem in the short, medium and long term with pension expense, productivity, creativity etc. The minister has laid out the 7 proposed conditions that will see the Immigration Act amended. So far except amorphous stuff nothing specific addressing the proposal has been seriously critiqued.
Then again Barbados is a failed state so why bother.
>
But how come this govt has taken upon itself to formulate legislation as important as immigration and has not given barbadians by way of town hall meetings to voice their input
Once again this govt is showing its muscular authority to do as it dam pleases while slowly taking barbadians on a one way path to becoming a dictatorship
In the meanwhile the licorish media buys into this grand deceptive performance
##############jesustakethewheel
A request for clarification or additional information should not be seen as opposing for the sake of it.
The devil is in the details.
Amorphous immigration plans without detailing the type of citizen that is desired are of no use to us.
Quite often i have seen negative comments directed towards immigrants from certain countries. So instead of venturing further down this lane, let’s describe/identify what is a ‘desirable immigrant’ up front.
@ Mariposa
You are right again, but you seem to upset some people on BU. For a government to consider having a referendum on whether we should become a nation of cannabis users and sellers, and ignore one for the proposed demographic change, is not just reckless, but irresponsible.
Oh Artax u are right
But then again there is always Squatter Rows
As a matter of fact also some tents cities can be included along with govt measures
Knowing this govt they would have measures in place to accommodate the new influx immigrant giving them all kinds of rights to build these types of cities
But who knows some bricklayers might emerge all which would be helpful in the progress of barbados economy
Yes u are right they would be enough lands pace for these immigrants to build on illegally
#########jesustakethewheel
Mariposa
I’m right about what?
It’s clear you’ve purposely misrepresented my question….. made up something completely DIFFERENT to what I asked and responded to it accordingly.
You’ve essentially presented “a straw man argument,”……. making up things as you go……. because you know it will be easy for you to knock down.
Politicians love these logical fallacies.
It is difficult to understand the reasoning behind our government’s desire to see a quadrupling in the population.
The only plausible reason that comes to mind is that those at the highest levels were financially rewarded on a scale so vast that it was deemed by them impossible to refuse.
If there is no verbal or physical response from the populace then we will see an unstoppable surge in our population. At a stroke the travails and the sacrifices made by our ancestors will be wiped out and become invalid.
Are our fellow Barbadians concerned or are they pre-occupied with just surviving on a day-to-day basis.
@ Talking Loud Saying Nothing
To answer your question which was
“…Are our fellow Barbadians concerned or are they pre-occupied with just surviving on a day-to-day basis?”
Fellow bajans both the people AND CERTAINLY THE SHEEPLE REALLY DOT GIVE ONE RH!
That societal immersion and displacement of bajans is not going to be as rapid as the sinking of the Titanic.
The population changes will obtain AND IT WOULD CAUSE MUGABE TO BE DICTATOR FOR 20 years, but the very makeover she heralds in WILL DESTROY HER.
Let de ole man explain by asking 2 questions?
What will be the ethnicity of the 900,000 she is importing?
What academic band will they come from?
You understanding de ole man?
To find 900,000 is not hard, but where you going for dem, AFRICA? SYRIA, EUROPE, WHERE?
So you comprehend what all this scare mongering is about TLSN?
This is about bringing in 20,000 hard up Caricom residents PRETENDING DAT DEM IS ACADEMICS, and stacking de voters list!
I going got to dun having these conversations with my ***** because I am seeing these things temporal too clearly and I am becoming …..
Prepare for some more faces over the coming 390 days as the padding exercise gets into gear for the 2021 general election.
@Pieces, as usual you get right to the core of the issue…a bit conspiratorial of course… but likely right on point principally re: “Few of you note the day for the General Election being clearly stated in this notice of grandfathered citizenship and converted residency.”…… I gather you refer to the proposal to wit: “Permanent residents may be able to receive citizenship after “three years ordinary residence in Barbados” or a total of 1,095 days.”
Now sir, let’s agree that could be a very real motivation for this immigration expansion but let’s also agree that an admin that just wiped the slate clean with a 30-0 victory and are facing a disjointed and seemingly ineffectual opposition from all comers does NOT need to pump up the voters rolls!
@David Blogmaster, you are disposed towards this push based on your acceptance that ‘Barbados has a problem […] with pension expense, productivity, creativity etc.” but to say that the critics are just mouthing “amorphous stuff” and “nothing specific addressing the proposal[s]” is a tad unreasonable.
The critiques from @Austin et al are valid and as real as @Pieces even if generic to immigration problems other places.
Barbados is definitely too small to expect these lovely theories of immigration reform/expansion to flourish without grave problems. I would modify @Austin’s remark about the Black Bajan pros as : ” … the black professional class, those who have betrayed ordinary people since 1966 [will again take part in another theft from average Black Bajans as they enrich themselves prostrating before these new Bajans with the services to help them entrench in Bajan society]”.
We are too SMALL and fragile (socially) to take on such an immigration without careful, deliberative steps .
It’s actually a very perceptive idea to offer citizenship to those who are “a grandchild or a great grandchild of a Barbadian citizen.”
Surely many pass that test and the corporate and professionalmagnates among them might find it fruitful to shift back to the birthplace of their grands within a citizenship embrace now that the fractures in US and Europe are widening.
Also the proposed — A two-stage route to merit-based citizenship through permanent residence [that] will be available to people “who have highly desirable employment skills, who are willing to open a business, or who have substantial capital, money, willing to invest significantly in our economy and hence providing much needed employment to Barbadians” is a standard concept that must be carefully weighted, as noted by others above.
And tell me David in the other proposals when the admin transfers permanent residency into citizenship for the groups described as …
Permanent residents may be able to receive citizenship after “three years ordinary residence in Barbados” or a total of 1,095 days.…
Or Ordinary residence will be defined as lawful residence for half of the year, 183 days in every year,
Or Permanent residents who have already been living here for more than seven years will be “grandfathered into citizenship”
Or Spouses and dependents who accompany a CARICOM Skilled National living and working here would be entitled to first become permanent residents and then ultimately citizens by way of time spent in Barbados
…how does that necessarily improve the NIS issues or change the dynamics re the creativity or productivity???
Don’t ALL those cohorts currently contribute in all those metrics? How does citizenship dramatically change that?
The issues raised are valid and the admin needs to be much more transparent with us all on this vexing subject!
@ de Pedantic Dribbler
I see you one and raise you one
You said and I quote
“…Now sir, let’s agree that could be a very real motivation for this immigration expansion but let’s also agree that an admin that just wiped the slate clean with a 30-0 victory and are facing a disjointed and seemingly ineffectual opposition from all comers does NOT need to pump up the voters rolls!…”
Mugabe Mottley DID NOT WIN A GENERAL ELECTION!
The Democratic Labour Party was absolutely and disgustedly, voted out!!!
I dont know how many times I can say this, BAJANS COMPLETELY HATED THE DLP!
Such profound hate WILL SEE TO IT THAT NOT ONE OF THOSE FACES WILL EVER RETURN TO THE HoA but Bajans are afraid of 30 to 0.
Therefore Mugabe has to plan ahead and to analyse THE WEAKES SEATS Word!
This is about analysis of the Constituencies and boxes AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE NEXT GENERAL ELECTION.
Watch how the Voters list is going to increase by roughly 50,000 people YET NIS CONTRIBUTIONS ARE GOING TO REMAIN FLAT
A thing that you need to comprehend intimately is “you can hide and buy land BUT YOU CANNOT HIDE AND WORK IT!!!
Mugabe can mask all of the credentials of the new residents/citizen awardees, she can hide all the people who she will claim are eligible to be grandfathered in, in fact she will hide those 50k people under her GREAT MARCH FORWARD movement.
Mostly because the so called Opposition party is not opposing Mugabe AS IT SHOULD.
But she recognizes that her ministers and BLP representatives ARE RH WEAKLINGS!
so what she has to do is provide for her Presidency for Life AND DO THIS AT THE VOTING STATIONS!
Watch as what I say comes true DpD.
There is but One Voice of our God and once you hear it, all else is subservient to His Voice and you know it.
If you listen carefully you “see” what they are doing by discernment DpD
After a while you comprehend WHY THEY HATE YOU TOO, because they fear your “discernment” irrespective of how nice they pretend to be, it doesn’t gel inside.
One day, hopefully, you too will let your “logic” take a back seat and let immutable knowledge drive you, it becomes an incredible ride!
Mugabe Amin Mottley wants to be president for life irrespective of all her mouthings otherwise.
Once you understand that AND THE LENGHTS THAT SHE WILL GO TO MAKE SURE THAT NEVRR CHANGES then you will grasp all the rest.
@November 22 at 6:13 p.m. “This is about bringing in 20,000 hard up Caricom residents PRETENDING DAT DEM IS ACADEMICS, and stacking de voters list! Prepare for some more faces over the coming 390 days as the padding exercise gets into gear for the 2021 general election.”
ONE: There is no general election scheduled for 2021.
TWO: Why would a party which EARNED all but 3 boxes, 74.8% of the votes in the 2018 election need to import people to stack the voter’s list, or to engage in a padding exercise? 30-0 is 30-0. When you have 30-0 there is no need to pad or stack. Of course 60% of those eleigble tovote didn not turn out to voe, so unless the other parties can persuade that 60% there is unlikely to be any change in 2023. I see no evidence yet that any of the other parties are WORKING at getting that 60% out.
Simple Simon, neither “B” nor “D” nor “P” nor “S”
@Hal AustinNovember 22, 2019 3:32 AM “Jews, who mainly came to the UK before the last war, are the most successful (education and business wise) ethnic and religious group in Britain yet anti-Semitism is rampant. Why?”
Because the British are a hateful people, that’s why. I trust that their evil has not infected you.
You have read British colonial history haven’t you? Wherever the British went from 1492 to 1982 they left a trail of oppression and destruction.
@TheOGazertsNovember 22, 2019 6:47 AM “let’s describe/identify what is a ‘desirable immigrant’ up front.”
Desirable immigrants to Barbados are people like you, and Hal and Piece, and TSLN.
If you wish, you can each give us ten things which made YOU a desirable immigrant, then Barbados officials can use that list to pick the new Barbadians. After that Barbados will be the perfect paradise.
I am fairly certain that when Hal moved to the United Kingdom in the late 50’s to early 60’s there were plenty of old British who regarded him as an undesirable, as three of my siblings who moved there starting in 1955 were ALL regarded as undesirables, and yet my siblings too turned out to be perfect immigrants, including some happily and long term married into the old British community and all.
@Piece November 23 at 1:16 p.m. “wants to be president for life irrespective of all her mouthings otherwise.”
Wunna done know that i like to look at demographic data. The facts please. The life expectancy of a Bajan man is 73, the life expectancy of a bajan woman is woman is 78. Sadly the life expectancy of a Bajan Prime Minister is 67. I have long said that our Prime Ministers have to work themselves much too hard on our behalf, and that many of them have literally been worked to death.
@Piece “There is but One Voice of our God and once you hear it, all else is subservient to His Voice and you know it.”
A lotta, lotta people hear the “voice of God” including Jim Jones et al
@Simple Simon
You shotting!
@TLSN
Don’t forget the lawyers will get work; it is another income stream for them. In typical Bajan style, they hint at economic reasons for the decisions, but no one is actual putting an argument. We must believe that by osmosis. But if you dare say it is not a good idea, that it is economic madness, the rabid dogs come out barking. Make sure they do not bite you, rabies can kill.
I know you live in the most cosmopolitan capital in the world and are speaking from experience.
Here is a country whose infrastructure is in total collapse and a govt without vision think it best to overload the country with more people
My earlier comment stands by asking where is the landspace to build more housing for these people
Right now barbados social and environmental problems are at level red
How would govt handle the burdensome problems like more traffic more garbage and increase of unemployment
The problems which small islands would inherit are numerous when the cloud of dust clears the air
@ Mariposa
The comparison with Singapore is interesting and idiotic. Why is it that Bajans are so selective in their comparisons? Take a closer look at Singaporean society.
The real issue is that the government has no master plan, no vision, apart from that children should learn to swim and be bilingual by 1930, this from a former minister of education who was in a government for 14 years.
Was the issue of bilingualism raised during her tenure? Was the issue of learning to swim raised during her tenure? Will bilingualism and swimming add to our economic growth? Or is it just waffle?
Hal,
Here is one country that has seen an explosion in its population.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/868e20d0-90ec-11e9-b7ea-60e35ef678d2
@ David,
Delete my previous post. The link does not work.
The country is Nigeria. I read somewhere that Nigerian women knock out 20,000 babies on a daily basis. And that the average Nigerian family produces on average 5 children.
From what I have read this has had a negative effect on Nigeria’s economy. This would explain why so many Nigerians are willing to lose their life’s at sea.
Japan has a low fertility rate and a declining population. They are now opening up their country to immigration. However they are developing their IT economy and introducing robots into the workplace to make up for the lack of human capital.
Robots add value to an economy and unlike many immigrants will not be a drain on the local economy. Nor do they price locals out of an area.
If Mia wants to grow our economy she needs to raise our productivity levels.
@ TLSN
In the late 1970s Nigeria had a population of 70m; today it is over 200m.
Very politically astute Monsieur Pieces re “Mugabe Mottley DID NOT WIN A GENERAL ELECTION! The Democratic Labour Party was absolutely and disgustedly, voted out!!!”
One can’ debate your analysis with some defined BLP data points that ensured their success…. but a 30-0 lambasting is surely premised more decidedly on a rejection of the Dees.
Incidentally, “logic” should always be used to set the parameters but by that same logically analysis one must then always be driven to ANY final political motivation by the real-world “immutable” knowledge….EVERY ambitious pol will cheat, mamiguy and finagle in order to stay in power.
I don’t dispute your protestations of her meglomaniac intentions!
@Simple, would you care to educate and enlighten on how you perceive that Bajan PMs “have to work themselves much too hard on our behalf, and that many of them have literally been worked to death.”
What type of mad scientist mixture gave you that puffery!
In a parliamentary ‘primus inter pares’ system you offer such based on your ‘love of demographics’ or love to offer sweet sounding phrases!
What is it that leads a PM other than ego in such a system to supposedly over work himself when he has a cabinet of competent colleagues ?
Doesn’t the ‘high life’ of fancy dinners, lack of proper exercise and overall bad eating habits more relate to the demise of any of our leaders… in short, the same factors for similarly situated top corporate or other chief executives!
Let’s get real and stop the trivializing of what should be practical debate with puff-puff emotive, political simplicity!
@simple
“Desirable immigrants to Barbados are people like you, and Hal and Piece, and TSLN.”
I have he feeling you are mixing up immigrants and emigrants…. :_)
I am still stuck on the magic number of one million.
How will we feed them?
Do you realize that we cannot rely on importing food to feed one million people. Emphasis and priority would have to be placed on producing food (agriculture).
Where will they live?
Can’t you see the competition between housing and agriculture?
I am surprised that I am hearing of these multi-story buildings. I grew up hearing that our limestone base made limit the height and weight of our buildings. Is this folklore or is it the truth?
Electricity and water
If our electrical and water systems cannot support the current population. How will they support one million people?
Schools
These immigrants will have children who need to be educated. It is obvious that what we are teaching in schools will need to change our we would merely be compounding problems. Producing a few lawyers and doctors will get us nowhere.
Look I ent too bright, but I cannot see how this million thing would work…
Worse than opposing for the sake of opposing is blind acceptance…
You Theophillus Gazerts is a next one to get run way!
Look how easy you bust de fallacy bubble of 1,000,000 people jes so by asking how we going feed dem, where dem going live, where dem getting water and light from.
Jes now your nemesis going come and cuss you for your submissions
I would wish you happy independence but mine was July 4th heheheheh
Ohhh say can we see, by the dawn’s early light…
Mariposa
Although you continue to criticize this immigration policy, I’m sure you’re aware it isn’t anything new. However, since you seem to be suffering from the ability to recall events from the recent past (anterograde amnesia)………. and have a problem with being consistent in your views……… permit me to REMIND you of the following.
Former Minister of Education, Ronald Jones, also made a case for an increase in Barbados’ Population. On March 19, 2014, while speaking in the House of Assembly on the Appropiation Bill 2014-2015, Jones made a case for a larger population so that local businesses could have access to a more diverse consumer base.
He said an increase in population would “make sense of the programmes we are looking to develop in Barbados: more people paying taxes, more people eating our agricultural produce and utilising our manufactured goods and services. “Over the next ten years we have to change the size of this population. We can comfortably go to 325 000 [and] people could still live comfortably in the space they have.”
During a media briefing held on June 19, 2017, former Minister of Industry, International Business, Commerce and Small Business Development, Donville Inniss, said he believed there needs to be a “rebalancing” of Barbados’ population given the noticeable decline in recent years.
Inniss was reported as also saying there was undisputed evidence which shows that the percentage of the working and reproductive age population has not been growing at the same rate as the retired or aged population. This, he said, naturally puts pressure on the society as a whole to be able to care for the elderly for the state to be able to provide the range of services that all citizens need in the future.
Inniss called for an increase in population a result of women having more babies, by way of immigration or both.
Barbadians were critical of Jones when he raised this issue of increasing the population in 2014 and subsequently in 2017 and of Inniss when he commented on the issue in 2017.
During that time you SUPPORTED the views of BOTH gentlemen.
These are the questions I have for you:
Could you please explain to us what caused you, at this time, to change your mind and OPPOSE the issue?
Or you’re now being critical because it has been raised by the BLP?
Artax
Your assumptions are remarkable
How can u make such bold assumption referencing any comments to my agreeing to what past ministers had said on this issue
I would however not deny hearing past minister openly stating that the population was too small because of low birth rate
However never heard or read where past govt tabled any piece to legislation with vast sweeping changes sufficient and enough to encourage an open door pathway way for citizenship
@ ManyPussy
If you would limit the amount of people using you multiple user access account, your “amnesia” would improve.
You jes too RH liéd that’s all
Piece
Yuh need to mind yuh own business but for the record u can crawl into the BU archive and if as u suggest the many pussies made comments
Pull up any one comment that would associate the many pussies agreeing with past ministers on this subject of immigration and citizenship
Just for the record you the one who is a RH bold faced liar
Let us reason this through dipshit.
You are her on record supporting Minister of Edukashun Ronald WeJonesing for many topics ManyPussy
One of which was his idiot campaign for population increase
I recall that his suggestion was twofold the first was getting the people from OVAH and away and the second was from breeding!
I recall speaking about his breeding stupidity and asking your fellow illiterate how de RH would his plan rollout if, the timeline for a baby to become an NIS contributor was roughly 21 years give or take a few!
You are, inter alia your multiple account users, A RH LIAR, and I stand by that pronouncement!
And, I also stand proudly behind the people of Barbados who defeated wunna fvuckers 30 to Zero!
And mine is the belief THAT NOT ONE OF YOU EFFERS WHO FVUCKED UP THE BARBADOS ECONOMY with 24 downgrades, WILL EVER GET BACK A SEAT in our house of Assembly!
Can you hear me now?
One more point ManyPussy
Just to stay on topic here about trojan horses.
If the trojan condoms the respective parents of the DLP jackasses had been working properly Barbados would not be in this predicament discussing this idiocy of a threefold increase in our population.
In the same vein that your DLP chvunts had no ideas to grow our economy IT IS BECOMING INCREASINGLY CLEAR THAT MUGABE IS ALSO DEVOID OF ANY VISION!
Thought we all know this is a ploy to pad the voters list!
Mariposa
RE: “Your assumptions are remarkable. How can u make such bold assumption referencing any comments to my agreeing to what past ministers had said on this issue.”
I don’t make assumptions, my friend. Since May 25, 2018, you developed the inability to recall events from the recent past (anterograde amnesia)………. and have a problem with being consistent in your views. But, doan worry….. uh gine remind yuh.
RE: “However never heard or read where past govt tabled any piece to legislation with vast sweeping changes sufficient and enough to encourage an open door pathway way for citizenship.”
Could you please identify where in the Barbados Today article it mentioned anything about “legislation with vast sweeping changes sufficient and enough to encourage an open door pathway for citizenship?”
Perhaps we may have read two different articles. The one I read mentioned a new bill to amend the Immigration Act in which it will be proposed that:
(1). The grandchild or great grandchild of a Barbadian citizen would become eligible for citizenship.
(2). Permanent residents may be able to receive citizenship after “three years ordinary residence in Barbados” or a total of 1,095 days. Ordinary residence will be defined as lawful residence for half of the year, 183 days in every year.
(3). Permanent residents who have already been living here for more than seven years will be “grandfathered into citizenship.”
(4). Spouses and dependents who accompany a CARICOM Skilled National living and working here would be entitled to first become permanent residents and then ultimately citizens by way of time spent in Barbados. Skilled nationals living here for the past seven years will be able to apply for permanent residence.
(What difference does it make if skilled CARICOM national becomes eligible for citizenship after already residing here for over 7 years or continues to reside as a permanent resident until he dies?)
(5). Reducing the length of time of those who marry Barbadians can register for citizenship by marriage – even though the Constitution currently entitles women who marry Barbadian men an automatic entitlement to register as a citizen.
(6). A two-stage route to merit-based citizenship through permanent residence will be available to people who “who have highly desirable employment skills, who are willing to open a business, or who have substantial capital, money, willing to invest significantly in our economy and hence providing much needed employment to Barbadians.”
(7). Those who can prove they have been residing in Barbados for four years will be eligible for permanent residence.
If CARICOM nationals who can prove they were residing here legally for 4 years…… would FIRST have to go through the process of applying for permanent residence…… and after “three (3) years ordinary residence in Barbados,” they can apply for citizenship………
………..I’m finding it a bit difficult to understand how a PROCESS that would take OVER SEVEN (7) YEARS to COMPLETE……..can be reasonably described as “sufficient and enough to encourage an open door pathway for citizenship?”
If, for example, 10,000 CARICOM nationals are legally residing in Barbados as permanent residents, how do they, on becoming eligible for (or granted) citizenship after living here for over 7 years…..INCREASE the population…. after all, duh wasn’t living hay permanently uh-ready?
Are you suggesting scores of non-nationals would come into Barbados, immediately qualify for entry into the island; remain here beyond the conditions granted by immigration officers; don’t regularize their statuses; don’t apply for work permits; continue to reside and work in Barbados illegally….. and after four (4) years they can apply for permanent residence and subsequently citizenship?
Would government use the experience gained from what occurred with the influx of Haitians as a result of abolishing the visa requirements to enter Barbados as a basis to formulate new laws?
Would these new proposals negate existing Immigration Rules as outlined in the Immigration Act?
What about the terms and conditions governing the process allowing skilled CARICOM nationals the right to reside and work in other CARICOM territories?
A reference was made to squatting, (which we all know was allowed to continue because successive BLP & DLP administration “turned a blind eye” to the illegal activity). Under these new proposals would government not find it necessary to enforce the laws relative to squatting?
I’m just asking a few questions.
The greatest female PM Barbados has ever had is clearly working hard at leaving a legacy.
Those of you who read the Barbados news papers could see what I see.
“A special guest . . . PM starts national conversation at Blackman and Gollop”
” Prime Minister Mia Amor Mottley has underscored the importance of dialogue with citizens, saying it is key to Barbados’ development.
Mottley expressed this view earlier today after a tour of the Blackman and Gollop Primary School at Staplegrove, Christ Church, where she visited each of the 22 classes and spoke to and interacted with the children.”
” PM unveils personal ‘Vision 2030s’”
“As the Government prepares to unveil its Vision 2020, Prime Minister Mia Mottley revealed a personal vision for a Barbados in the 2030s where all young people are full of confidence, bilingual, able to swim, unafraid to take business risks and are taking part in a sport or the art ”
I gine leff wunna to form wunna own opinions an keep mine to muh self causin I doan live down dey…….yet. lol
Artax u bring all those refernces but none in any way proves your insane assumptions wherof u stated that i supported govt on population increase
As fuh yuh piece couldn’t or doesn’t give a rats a..ss of what u think
Suffice it to say u can make claims as wide as.a..s…s holes but unless proven they become unfounded or regurgitated lies..uh ole boar
@ Hants
What a vision? She must be wearing eye shades.
“Artax u bring all those refernces but none in any way proves your insane assumptions wherof u stated that i supported govt on population increase.”
Mariposa
What references are you referring to?
You mentioned some nonsense about assumptions, to which I responded with the following: “But, doan worry….. uh gine remind yuh.”
In response to your comment re: “However never heard or read where past govt tabled any piece to legislation with vast sweeping changes sufficient and enough to encourage an open door pathway way for citizenship,”……… I listed the new immigration proposals as outlined in the article and asked you a few questions.
Rather than responding accordingly, you purposely misrepresented my comments and questions….. presented another “straw man argument,”……. making up things as you go……. because you know it will be easy for you to knock down.
You’re a true politician using an old “political trick.”
@ ManyPussy
Doan mind you disrespecting de ole man gray hairs AND CALL ME AN OLE BOAR!
dat hurt de ole man 30 times!
Girl I ent get but 30 minutes of sleep from the time you told me that.
But doan mind you tell me dem harsh words I gine answer Artaxerxes DE MAN WHO DOES POISON ALL YOU ACs every single day.
@ Artaxerxes
You said and I quote
“…Are you suggesting scores of non-nationals would come into Barbados, immediately qualify for entry into the island; remain here beyond the conditions granted by immigration officers; don’t regularize their statuses; don’t apply for work permits; continue to reside and work in Barbados illegally….. and after four (4) years they can apply for permanent residence and subsequently citizenship?…”
To that question, GIVEN THE MEETING GOINGVON AT IMMIGRATION RIGHT NOW and the reassignment of staff duties TO MUGABE PIMPS.
YES!!!
THE ANSWER IS A CATEGORICAL YES!
Mugabe is amputating ALL DISSENT and creating a one party state.
The applications ARE BEING FALSIFIED, EVEN AS WE ARE SPEAKING!
IF YOU DOUBT ME, ask Senator Caswell Franklyn about the organisational shake up that has been, and is now going to roll out full steam!
Unless wunna look to vote in the Third Party Movement I AM AFRAID THAT ALL WUNNA DONKEYS ARE COOKED!
GIMME DE VOTE & WATCH MUH NOW!!
Atherley is too slow!!!
Still a good argument.