Dear BPWCCUL (Barbados Public Workers’ Co-operative Credit Union) Limited members, some of you have expressed concern with the actions taken by the Board to acquire Capita, the apparent reluctance by the Board to be forthright with information regarding CAPITA’s operations and the manner in which decisions relating to Capita are being made.
It is possible that everything done by the Board is legitimate and that CAPITA is a good investment. However, it is not sensible for the members to blindly allow the Board to oversee almost $1 billion, without being fully transparent in and accountable for its actions.
It is suggested that the members demand a special general meeting to consider all matters relating to Capita, including its acquisition, operations and future direction. After considering all of the matters, the members can then make a decision to accept the Board’s actions regarding CAPITA or remove the Board and elect a new Board to execute the members’ wishes regarding CAPITA.
If you are in support of convening such a meeting, please print the attached Demand and have it signed by as many members as possible. You can periodically report here on the number of signatures collected. When fifty signatures have been secured, the members in possession of the signed forms can arrange to meet, copy and deliver the signed forms. If you sign the attached Demand, you need to be prepared for the possibility that the Board may resign. You should therefore give some thought to suitable replacements to lead BPWCCUL before the meeting is convened. If fifty signatures are not secured, you should consider this matter closed.
Please distribute the attached flyer to assist in disseminating this message to members of BPWCCUL.
All I can say, CRABS IN A BASKET.
If you sign the attached Demand, you need to be prepared for the possibility that the Board may resign.
That statement appears in the above post. That is not a problem. Some years ago, I proposed an amendment which was approved be the members that would take care of that “problem”. I was reviewing the by-laws and discovered that it was wrongly inserted but, nevertheless, appears as By-law 34 (2) which states:
If there are no directors remaining the Supervisory Committtee and the Credit Committee, sitting jointly, shall in writing appoint directors solely for the purpose of calling a general meeting to elect members to fill the vacant directorships.
Don’t concern yourself though, there are some directors that will never resign, life is too sweet being a director of BPWCCUL.
O LORD THIS ONE MAN BLP MAN UNION AT IT AGAIN ??? Give us a break.
Pingback: Special Meeting Called By Concerned Group of Barbados Public Workers Cooperative Credit Union Ltd | Barbados news
“If you are in support of convening such a meeting, please print the attached Demand and have it signed by as many members as possible.
A pity the URL results in a 404 (File not found) error….
@David
file 404 not located.;
@C Cadogan
why did you make such a statement?
@Poop at Sea
Leave mr franklyn alone. If the members have concerns they will take what action they think that is neccessary.
Thanks for the feedback, the broken link has been fixed.
Remember you can click on the icons under the post to share i.e. if you have email, twitter, facebook etc.
It is important if members want to democratize the process in their credit union they have to participate.
It is your credit union!
The AGM was the time and place to make this request. Were any concerns addressed there? Weren’t the same people who are laughing at us voted back on to continue laughing?
@Cat Eyes
The Mutual Affair would have demonstrated issues such as this one need a champion a la Hilary Beckles.
The average credit union member in a Barbados environment remains passive and in many cases ignorant to their rights and the avenues open to exercise those rights in a formal AGM setting.
@David… Further to your above…
A great man once said “Law is made for man, not man for the law.
Law is simply a tool; like a hammer, a drill, a screwdriver or mathematics.
Learning to use it to your own advantage is not really that difficult, despite what some might tell you.
@Chris
Too true.
The other consideration in this matter is the extent to which there is a mentality which says members have total confidence in the Board to act on their behalf. In the spirit of the coop movement an asinine position to hold.
I do not understand your last statement, David. The directors are not there forever and will one day become ordinary members again. On whose behalf then do they act?
@Jack Spratt
Reading the comments on the other credit union blogs it seems we have many of the same faces rotating through the management committees and board.
@David: “Reading the comments on the other credit union blogs it seems we have many of the same faces rotating through the management committees and board.
Being the honest sceptic I am, may I please ask you to provide the URLs to those credit union blogs you refer to in your above?
@Daivd et al
I hope that this is not just talk, i cant recall hearing many searching questions being asked at the AG> it wold appear that we are a nation of talkers. I have printed a few copies of the notice and palce them on baords. Each member should dsiplay it in his workplace. Further, the notice can be amailed to persons on the Government portal or whatever you call it.
Sorry that i might be out of the isalnd and have to miss it, but will do my part before I leave. I hope the concerned persons are orgnized and it is not a one man concerned person. I have taken the decision to reuduce my risk as i am a net contributor to the coop.
David
You said:
“The average credit union member in a Barbados environment remains passive and in many cases ignorant to their rights and the avenues open to exercise those rights in a formal AGM setting.”
That statement is partly true: even when you know your rights and attempt to exercise them you get locked in the process. Let me cite a two examples:
1. On June 20, 2007, I filed a dispute against the board of Public Workers board when they dismissed the Internal Auditor in breach of the by-laws. The Registrar refused to deal with the matter stating that I was not an aggrieved party. I appealed her decision to the Co-operative Societies Appeal Tribunal but that tribunal never sat to consider anything.
2. When shares of BNB and ICB were on the market the then Administration announced that some shares were allocated for credit unions. I wrote to Prime Minister Arthur pointing out that the Co-operative Societies Act did not allow credit unions to purchase those shares. You would not believe what happened next: Government allowed the purchase and some time later the law was amended to allow future purchases of this nature.
I could go on and on. It would appear that once the board court political friends they are protected and the officials who are supposed to enforce the law are prevented from doing so through fear of losing their jobs and ignore wrong doing.
You must remember that Prime Minister Thompson announced that he had given approval for the credit union to purchase Clico mortgage Finance Co. That was not his role, as a matter of fact he had no role in that regard. Even though the members did not give permission to borrow the money to purchase that company , the board felt secure enough to breach the by-laws knowing full well that nothing would happen. There was an added bonus for a board member Paul got a job after 5 years of unemployment.
What’s funny about this is…If they couldn’t turn up at the meeting and identify themselves and raise these so called concerns..are they going to a) turn up in the park or even b) Sign their names to this ?
Also find it interesting that @just only asking is going to be conveniently out of the island but encouraging everyone else to attend….
None of you have yet to layout the case of so called wrong doing, mismanagement or embezzlement that been talked about? Just all kinds of rhetoric , none of you are commenting on the performance of the credit union during the last twelve months which surpassed many of the other organisations you put money with..you people are typical of the culture that kills this country..”I ain’t getting it so noone should” and claim that there are issues with the Governance.
So anyone that dare point out contrary for you people is corrupt…so far in these posts, the Police Corrupt, the Registrar of cooperatives corrupt , the other 35 credit unions corrupt that voted to use Capita as the vehicle to form a bank for credit unions sometime in the future not next week.
@david…you posted about the Navy Federal Credit Union but you are just as reckless cause you haven’t pointed out that the range of services offered by that credit union are what BPWCCUl is striving withits so called “corrupt Board” to bring..including mobile banking. Additionally, @David note that the Board members of the Navy Federal Credit Union all have training in some business discipline. They clearly didn’t just let any yardfowl on the Board to manage its huge assets.
Hey guys #justsaying…but lets see if I can predict your responses…
@caswell – his response will be that – I’m one of them as well.. Try and pay back the people their money that you by your own admission “embezzled”. Why don’t you tell these concerned people about the other monies you haven’t paid back …
@Bajanguy
The issue here is about transparency in decision-making. Before Paul Maxwell touted the mobile baking concept had this matter been discussed/tabled to members?
How much money has been spent in consulting fees on this matter so far? How does it fit into credit union strategy.
You are correct that the members who are concerned about the CAPITA matter should have attended the meeting on Saturday.
It is there right to mobilize if they want having realized their mistake.
You should bear in mind also the profitability of the credit union is good but it should not preempt any attempt to blanket transparency in how BPW board does business with its members.
Some of you wish to embarrass the board and some of you wish to disregard the concerns of those members that have concerns. If the board indeed purchased the mortgage company without seeking the consent of the members, that action was inappropriate.
Shareholders elect a board to manage a specific business and, unless the shareholders agree to limit the powers of the board, the board has the authority do so. The board does not have the authority to fundamentally change that business without the agreement of the shareholders. At the extreme, imagine appointing a board to manage a chain of night clubs, only to discover that the board purchased a chain of strip clubs to expand the business because of the high profitability associated with strip clubs.
In the spirit of cooperation, I suggest that the board initiate a special meeting to address the items highlighted and conclude this matter, regardless of any demand. In the main, the members are financially unsophisticated individuals, with savings of less than $10,000 and likely a net loan balance, so there is no need to be critical of their efforts to organize and put forward their concerns. Consider looking out for and protecting these members.
@A.Freeman
Well said, it does nothing for the reputational capital of BPW credit union to have these stories posted on the Internet.
When lose or draw it serves the interest of the credit union to respond to the concerns even if the noise being made by a minority voice.
@ Bajan Guy
You are nothing more than a J A. I can represent myself any place and dont have to tell lies, I am one of the elite savers in the credit union and have more to lose than most, in fact i am one of the elite 700 members. As I under another blog, i have stopped my saving element from JUly, it was too late to stop it for june. if the training that i am supposed dont come off as planned, I SHALl BE THERE AND WHAT ABOUT YOU TO PIMP TO pimp on WHAT IS PLANNED TO REPORT TO THE BOARD.
I will sign the petition, i aint frighten for a fella bout here, dont judge me by you lack standards which appear to at 1 on a scale of 1-10..
if you have savings, you perhaps dont have eeough to buy a few pounds of scratch grain. i dont need a loan, nor a morgage i am at the departure gate. I have always been a net saver with the union. So you can go to hell and back..
So if you have no interest in this topic go and play with yourself. By the way, why dont you ask the members to pay back all the money they got under false pretenses, including you..
I think caswell add more to the union than all those holding position, sorry he helped place that J A as ceo. I know he reget that decision, nut it is too late.
@David
Did you remember that the mutuul board was transformed as a result of the concerned policyholders fighting mutual to have elections, as apposed to a few white people being selected and a token black in henry forde being on the board.
The mutual fought the policyholders in the press and they could not find a black to run on it side, making overture to some that the said policyholders were backing. At the last minute Vivain Ann Gittens entered the fray in thier corner and from that day she and Maxime Mcclean fell out, because it was felt that she was used. She then had the gall to say that she was the first woman to sit on the Board without thanking those who paved the way for her, that is why upto this day i have no respect for her, as i consider her an opportunist. Just like some of those membera who Bajan GUy is supporting.,
strange that the credit union meeting like the public workers meeting has come and gone like a candle in the wind and there has been no further action from the action group who do not seem to be able to muster 50 signatures from over 10000 members to support the cause of the same membership.
I am watching this development with interest. My feeling? Bare pappyshow and ole talk!
@A. freeman
The issue here is about transparency and good governance.
@et al
Is it any different to what we witnessed with the NUPW matter?
We had Derek Alleyne, Manessah King, Gill and a host of others and what? It seems as if they were read the riot act, have you seen them recently?
Even at the national level Barbadians don’t want to participate in our democracy, they believe that a vote at election time is it.
BU has given voice to the concerns of some members. It is up to them to do some work.
It can’t be done behind a mask.
How many have gone to traditional media with their concerns?
Call the talk shows?
Pay to do an email blast?
A recommendation would be for this group, if it is serious, to print some flyers and distribute at government departments, if they are serious that is.
It is not inconceivable for this credit union to eventually be transformed into a full commercial entity. The challenge will be, however, the allocation of the equity. As with the Barbados Mutual, a formula will be needed to determine the equity allocation and, in this instance, should consider the net savings balance of each member, which was used to generate the undistributed retained earnings, currently held as statutory and other reserves. The $100,000 club of 700 members, especially, need pay attention to any eventual transformation of this entity.
Caswell, you seem very knowledgeable of credit unions. If a member decides to leave the credit union, is that member allocated an amount that represents a proportionate share of the retained earnings held as (statutory and other) reserves, which accumulated over the duration of the exiting member’s membership? If this is so, are the underlying records that sophisticated and accurate. If this is not so, is it an acknowledged feature of credit unions that a portion of the earnings of current members gets allocated to future members?
David, I wish to understand the inner workings of these entities. Caswell, I will still appreciate a response.
@A.Freeman
Understood, just wanted to make the point that the crux of the issue as read is the concern by some that the acquisition of CMFC/CAPITA was not managed in the most transparent manner and secondly the strategic positioning needs to be distilled.
Frankly a CAPITA competing in a small market for mortgages and funding will affect the public workers credit union. Some members of the credit union will naturally want to do business with CAPITA because of the affiliation, it is a subsidiary after all.
$500,000 missing from Barbados Treasury…
@Balance: “…and there has been no further action from the action group who do not seem to be able to muster 50 signatures from over 10000 members to support the cause of the same membership.
I would be *very* surprised if 50 signatures are not secured. (And, for the record, I have no financial interest in this matter.)
I find it interesting how so many suddenly come out of the “woodwork” when it is actioned that Bajans use their rights for themselves….
David | June 24, 2011 at 6:23 AM | @A. freeman The issue here is about transparency and good governance
http://www.membertrust.org/WhoBenefits.html
CONFLICT OF INTEREST
The Board and Executives Have a Lot to Gain—Member-Owners Have a Lot to Lose.
A credit unions’ directors and executives serve as stewards of their member-owners’ institution. However, they typically make hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars by converting their members’ credit union to a bank. This financial gain for insiders generally comes at the expense of members. In addition to rates and fees getting worse, conversion usually means the loss of valuable ownership.
HOW MUCH DO INSIDERS MAKE?
The board of directors acquired an average of $742,000 dollars each in stock and awards by converting and began paying themselves annually and per-meeting, according to a study of insider gain at five converted credit unions conducted by the Credit Union National Association.
The CEOs at these former credit unions acquired or were given an average of $1.9 million dollars in stock gifts and options, are now paid more than 150% the salary of CEOs of similarly sized credit unions. Both groups are able to profit on the stock they purchased in a closed initial public stock offering. Directors and executives should not profit by recommending a conversion that costs members their ownership and good rates.
The reason why persons did not continue with the action was because the newly elected treasurer assured some persons that the money will be repaid under her watch.
TREAURER OF THE CREDIT UNION OR PUBLIC WORKERS. I AM LOST JUST ASKING. I REFERRED TO TWO ENTITIES WHICH WERE UNDER SEVERE CRITICISM ON THE UNDERGROUND ABOUT MANAGEMENT OF THEIR AFFAIRS AND TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE THE STATUS QUO REMAINS AND THE CONCERNED PERPETRATORS HAVE GONE STRANGELY SILENT. AM I ASSUME IT WAS MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING.
If you have a high savings account balance at a credit union or a bank, I suggest that you invest a small percentage of your savings in the stock market, initially to experience it. After that, decide how you wish to proceed. When the utility of cash is decreasing, stocks may provide better security, as the cash is diversified through the entities’ assets.
@A. Freeman
Caswell must be busy, today is the AGM of COB.
A. Freeman | June 24, 2011 at 5:46 AM | Caswell, you seem very knowledgeable of credit unions. If a member decides to leave the credit union, is that member allocated an amount that represents a proportionate share of the retained earnings held as (statutory and other) reserves, which accumulated over the duration of the exiting member’s membership? If this is so, are the underlying records that sophisticated and accurate. If this is not so, is it an acknowledged feature of credit unions that a portion of the earnings of current members gets allocated to future members?
@ Freeman
If a member leaves, he takes his savings and (after any possible liabilities to his shares are ascertained) his shares.
The only allocation of reserves that are consigned to any particular member are those properly declared at a general meeting when dividends and /or patronage refunds are declared. Otherwise retained earnings continue to be held by the collective body.
So leaving a successful coop is not a very good idea.
The thing to do (and the whole objective -DESPITE the complaints of the uninformed on this blog) is to BECOME INVOLVED, ASK QUESTIONS. and PARTICIPATE to ensure good management.
The BEST questions are foolish questions – sometimes these bring out the most truths…..
and in any event, this is how members learn about their rights and their organization.
….just saying til Caswell get back….LOL
@Balance
You chose which way you want, isnt tha what democracy about?.
Bush Tea | June 25, 2011 at 10:24 AM |
Thank you for the response. This is very bad news for frustrated members. With a publicly traded company, you sell your shares and hopefully at a price that reflects a proportionate share of retained and future earnings. With such wide, uninformed groups of shareholders, directors really do have control of credit unions. I am sorry to say, but Capita seems to have the potential to inject into the credit union movement a for-profit model that is inconsistent with the inability of members to access the value locked within retained earnings, while the management of Capita may have the potential to immediately realize significant rewards by arranging the sale of Capita and being rewarded by the new controlling owner(s) for closing such a transaction. A reasonable course of action may be for the members to vote for the shares or Capita to be distributed, using an appropriate formula, directly to the current BPWCCUL members, so that the members own two separate entities, a credit union and a mortgage company.
@ Freeman
“This is very bad news for frustrated members….”
**********************
The bad news is that after so many years of Credit Union growth in Barbados, even intelligent well meaning persons continue to think that the Credit Union is there to cater to their own TV-driven, personal illusions of easy wealth.
ALL co-operatives are intended to provide fora for collective self-help and development.
In other words, to look after each another by pooling resources and volunteering skills and talents.
The only thing really special about a Credit Union is that its objectives are focused on member’s financial needs.
One therefore should join a Credit Union as a COLLECTIVE COMMUNITY effort to build all the members through the Credit Union.
It is fairly obvious (AND ONLY TO BE EXPECTED) that as it becomes more successful, elements who are interested in their own selfish ends will be attracted….. the solution is NOT take your portion and run….. but to re-assert the objectives of the organization and expose the charlatans by intense scrutiny….
If your suspicions are wrong and the Board (or whoever) is operating according to the credit union principles, then your scrutiny will only highlight and reinforce their good work.
A GOOD BOARD WELCOMES SCRUTINY!!! It is the best form of member education.
Members need not be frustrated – they need to become energized, interested and active…. Too much effort and good work has gone into that organization for good members to leave in frustration now…
However if members fail to get interested and end up losing their shirts, then they have ONLY themselves to blame – THAT is the beauty of co-operatives…..(unlike an investment in stocks where individual small shareholders have NO SAY AT ALL in the organization’s affairs)
@A. Freeman
Consider it a reciprocal arrangement.
The credit union needs the retained earnings as capital to secure the company, a stable financial company obviously benefits the member while being active.
There is the value, the credit union owes the member nothing when the account is closed.
i intend to sign but when i check, couldn’t access the link
Bush Tea | June 25, 2011 at 1:38 PM |
I appreciate all that you have said. However, the inability to access retained earnings seems to be a very inequitable feature of credit unions. This means that a man could be a member for sixty years, during which retained earnings grow from $0 to $40 million, then passes away without he or his descendants realizing the benefit of those earnings. The credit unions may need to adopt the concept of allocated, undistributed earnings, where the retained earnings are fully allocated to members each year, with the portion needed for reserves undistributed, though allocated. A member should then be allowed upon retirement, or his descendants upon his death, to withdraw his share of the allocated, undistributed earnings. In short, given the nature of the entity, there should be no unallocated, even if undistributed, retained earnings.
David | June 25, 2011 at 2:50 PM |
David, what you are suggesting would be reasonable if there was no provision to allow for a future set of members to dissolve the credit union and distribute the retained earnings. At some future date, a set of members, with more sophistication, will likely realize that there is a significant benefit to selling the loan portfolio, dissolving the entity and distributing the retained earnings. Such members may even comprise members that join for the sole purpose of executing the dissolution. I accept that capital is needed to operate the business – I am saying to allocate all earnings, but retain (not distribute) the portion needed for capital, so that the earnings retained for capital is already allocated. This way, new members do not inherit the retained earnings that should rightfully be the property of past members.
@A. Freeman
What if the credit union encounters a rough financial period and it has the need to dip into retained earnings to support the business?
A. Freeman: “However, the inability to access retained earnings seems to be a very inequitable feature of credit unions.
This is not true for *all* credit unions. Many pay dividends in years of excess earnings as a function of a member’s savings (extra interest paid) and loans (interest charges reduced).
There is no reason this could not be done here.
@Freeman
There is logic in what you are seeing. consisder their earnings over the years as their goodwill in that the retained earnings which is used for capitall assisted in propelling the business and a formula should be found to allocate a portion of that retained earning annually based on your investment, On leaving the business due to death or otherwise then your value should now be realized and paid to you.
Ordianry shareholders on the winiding up of a company either suffer a gain or a loss as they are the one that carry the risk over the years and every member of the credit union carry the risk, some more than others.
just rambling but i dont care about anything else as a member than to know that my money is there when i go fo it.
i hate the commercial banks especially a certain one down there by the tree so i am resorting to the credit union.
i hope they do ok and safeguard the people’s money or not i will have to draw off my money because that is the part i am interested in.
Christopher Halsall | June 25, 2011 at 3:53 PM |
Christopher, according to this (http://publicworkers.bb/documents/news/areports/Annual_Report_2010.pdf), the BPWCCUL had in excess of $48 million held as reserves last year – this is the number that I am getting at. Though withheld for capital purposes, to support the business, this amount should have been allocated, though withheld, over time, to ensure equitable distribution. For example, according to his contributions, just-only-asking has been a member for many years and has accumulated over $100,000 in savings. It is reasonable to conclude that most of the $48 million held in reserves was accumulated during his membership. It seems unreasonable and inequitable that, upon retirement, having supported the credit union for many years as a net saver, he will not be able to access his proportionate share of those funds.
I t means that black people AINT to get money unless they tief
500, 000 gone from the Treasury.
Where is that money ???
David | June 25, 2011 at 4:42 PM |
A loss is allocated, in the same manner that income is allocated, to the then current members.
@Rambling Rose
More than that is misappropiated in your Union through devious means, so this is why you should pay interest in the debate and dont come with diatrite.
Look at the fincial statement and see how much money was spent on advertising these are the things you should concern yourself with.
@A. Freeman… Further to your above to David…
And then the interest paid to savings accounts is lessoned, and the interest exacted for borrowing is increased, so the “non-profit” cooperative can come back to zero year-on-year.
Just as an aside, can anyone tell us all what is the current “prime lending rate” is here in Barbados?
Can anyone tell us what the interest rate credit union members enjoy for their savings? Bank clients?
Can anyone tell us what the interest rate credit union members pay for their loans? Bank clients?
A bonus question: what is the current rate of inflation here in Bim?
@A. Freeman: “…the BPWCCUL had in excess of $48 million held as reserves last year – this is the number that I am getting at. Though withheld for capital purposes, to support the business, this amount should have been allocated, though withheld, over time, to ensure equitable distribution.
Exactly.
Short of retaining earnings to cover a couple of years of bad debts (which should not happen except in extreme circumstances) and required infrastructure maintenance for the credit union itself, all earnings should be returned to the members.
A credit union is not a bank. It should not invest in (or prepare to invest in) anything not directly related to its members short term interests without its members approval to do so….
Well I dont know how much is misappropriated but anytime I turn up at the credit union , I waqnt my money I dont want any foolishness , I will be very concerned.
I cant be bothered with such things as you say . There are people who will fight on my behalf. I will fight other things , things that I know about but leave this one to the experts. If they want me to fight , I can go down in the trenches for them when they are ready but I will follow because I cant lead on this one, I know my place.–Just Rambling on
@Rambling Rose
Since you are willing to listen to those who can lead, then you have an obligation to support them by attending the meeting.
@ Chris
A credit union is not a bank. It should not invest in (or prepare to invest in) anything OUTSIDE OF ITS CORE BUSINESS without its members approval to do so….
*********************************
..”anything not directly related to its members short term interests” is too much a matter of opinion.
@ Freeman
Your logic is wholly understandable and in the Bushman’s humble opinion very much in keeping with Co-operative principles.
There is really no good reason why retained earnings cannot be held as member’s assets. In fact this is very much a policy decision. Boards prefer the flexibility of holding such reserves as retained earnings – often in the form of bank deposits – since these allow them the luxury of playing big businessmen by buying buildings, investing in businesses etc.
Your position can be easily achieved if the credit union is forced to pay dividends when surpluses are realized and to definitely pay patronage refunds to members who would -by definition, have been overcharged interest paid during the period (to have realized the surplus of income over expenses).
Some of these dividends can be paid into special reserve members shares.
A block of these special members’ shares can then be held as the credit union’s special reserve to provide the needed stability in case of difficulty. Even if a member leaves, their special reserve shares can be held for a specific period to ensure that any liabilities are cleared, and then that member can be paid out.
Are you aware that you can develop this as a proposed policy for your credit union – explain it to members and move it as a resolution at the next general meeting…. it would definitely get the bushman’s vote….
Once that vote carries, this becomes the policy of the credit union. You have the power and the right.
@Bush Tea
I with you, it can be presented as a Speial General Meeting as well. Are you aware, that the more there is wasteful expenditure the less for the reserves.
what democracy are you talking about just ony askin. is besmirching the character of persons on this forum democracy?
@balance
Why don’t you get specific. If Clico policyholders were willing to call people to account over their stewardship maybe the financial debacle now being experience might have been averted.
LOL @ David
There are a set of persons who somehow seem to think that they have a RIGHT, once elected in a Credit Union (or Government), to do as they wish with the people’s money and to be above questioning.
ANYONE who allows themselves to be selected for such positions of SERVICE- and are not prepared to be open and transparent -are liabilities.
‘Just only Asking’ is a model of a good credit union member and citizen
@Bush Tea
Thank you for reposing confidence in me, I have no ill will to anyone on this site, but will respond agressively when i have to if appears that anyone wants to insult my intelligence.
As I said before, i wish the meeting could have been called earlier, but a man has to do what a man has to do, The only time i dont attend meetins is if i am out of the island. For 34 years i have contributed to the growth of my credit union. I have joined up every family members and all my friends and even workkmates and never looked for anything in reiurn, unlike people like BALNCE WHO IS IN IT FOR THE RIDE.
I have someone who will be entering the workforce from next month, but with the concerns that i have, i cant at this time advise her to join the credit union.
BY the way MR/MS/MRS Balance i am more than twice an elite member you think carefully if you underdtand deductive reasoning. Thus, I have a lot to lose, while people like you, balance who i consider an opportunist and aprasite, has a lot to gain at our expense.
@david
I want to respond to the article by Dr. Chase, Can you create thread with it, I am sure that blogger like me would like to critcally analyse it.
i totally agree that persons holding positions of trust must be held accountable for their actions and i am sure that within the the credit union, there is a forum for dissenting views not character assassination. congratulations to just only askin on his unselfish contribution to thecredit union. i am sure a person of his great intellect would be quite famaliar with the admonition to the pharisees- “he humbleth himself would be exalted and he who exalteth himself would be abased.
Another troubling point about the CMFC now CAPITA acquisition is this:
When CMFC was owned by the insurance company (CLICO) there was the opportunity to feed the mortgage company business. It was a good fit.
In the case of CAPITA unless it intends to compete with BPW credit union it will have to enter the open market and compete in a tough market for business.
Was a business plan for CAPITA presented to the members? One would think of BPW owns 100% of CAPITA the members deserve a say or do they?
@balance
i am not good at understanding bibical quotations so if you make it easier for me to undersand i woud be happy.
@David
I have given serious thought to your blog above. Where will capita gets its new client from? Will it now be competing with its owner for business. Do people now need to join the crdit union, since they can go to capita and get a competitive rate in light of the morgage market and would the credit union has to repond to the marketing challenge?.
Can Balance answer the above questions?
The more reason why i fear for the direction of my union and my money.
Just only asking, you do not really seem to fear the direction of your union and your money. From what you wrote earlier, you personally know almost fifty members – what are you waiting for?
@ALien
you are a barbadain and not from another planet. A lot of people like you would have difficulty in sign in a petititon, you cant force anyone to sign anything. i can invite them if they have a concern.
Try another one, that did not stick it bounced off and back to you.
as I have said before, i started risk reduction and in september after interest is paid i will break the premire plan, do u havae a problem with me mitigating my risk.
I MAKE decisions in my best interest and what about you?
Just only asking, I did not mean to offend you – your earlier comments did imply that you knew several members.
i too will sign and 3 others from my work place
looking forward with bated breath to the successful cdonclusion of the petition which i intend to sign because i support discussion of credit union issues under the procedures provided within the credit union since washing dirty linen in public never solves problems but rather exacerbates the problems by turning off well intentioned members.
@Balance
R u sure you are interested in such? I get the disticnt impression you are not. Hope I am wrong. If the people in America had washed their dirty linen in publi, perhaps there would not have been so much sufferings today. Similarly clico plicyowners, I will never forget how Hilary Beckles forced the Mutual to transform/reform.
At David, the concerned persons need to say where the signed petition can be dropped off. I have started asking people to sign, I will gurantee at least five signatures pro temp.
At David, the concerned persons need to say where the signed petition can be dropped off. I have started asking people to sign, I will gurantee at least five signatures pro temp.
A suggestion from BU is to walk with your signups to the meeting.
@David
As I said before. i might be out of the country. if the meeting comes off on the specifed date, in the next week of two I shall defintely know. I have a suggestion. I can leave mine with the receptinonist at NUPW in an envelope addressed concerend credit union members and some one form the group can collect it there, does that make sense?
My wife and I will sign.
@David
I got 18 signatures, including mine. My target is now 25 instead of five.
@just only asking
Good for you, if you will not be at the meeting you should send a rep.
To All
I have in hand a sheet with 28 names and 28 signatures, will now aim for 35 and thats my quota and contribution to this effort. a lot of people seem to following the discussion on BU.
Please note that my original target was 5, then 25, but i will stick at 35 and i expect others to contribute. Please ask persons to make their names legible so that there can no confusion and ensure that they sign, because I know the signatures will be compared against what is on records, If pepole remember their book number that will be helpful, although no body today could remember their book number..
Gentlemen and Ladies
I think you should be updating us on what progress is baing made in solicting signature for the special meeting. I have my signatures in hand and dont want my efforts to be in vain
so please speak to the issue..
Agree that those who have expressed concern need to become more active in the dialogue. BU will promote the meeting a little more aggressively next week appreciating that Bajans are last minute people.
Has anyone seen the advertising which CAPITA has lauched?
Remember the Treasurer Paul Maxwell told the AGM a couple weeks ago that commercial banks are swimming in money.
Why then does CAPITA have to advertise at 3.75% up to 4.25% to attract time deposits?
We need to keep watching this situation.
Well Gentlemen and ladies
I am now sure that i will not be able to attend the meeting, but i have my signattures and i will need to know where to deposit them, as i said before we need to inform one another how things are going with the signature drive.
i am sure just only askin bevcause i have interests in the credit union too and my beef has been with the credit union’s expansionary measures at the expense of the immediate needs of the membership. i was very much concerned about the purchase of clico mortgage witout the consultation of membership. i sent a mail to brasstacks seehing discussion but mr marshall never read it presumably knowing his role in the matter as chairman or prospective chairman of the national insurance board.
@David
I am watching closely. I have been informed that the credit Union is no longer offering the Premiere Account in which I have most of my money, where in the last two years of the plan the interest is greater than the first two or three years. I would have to check my contract document.
If the credit union is only giving you 2,25 or 2.5% on savings why would people continue making deposits with them. As I said, i stopped my savings element with it. I can as well put it on the baank and get the same rate, since i will not beefit any rebate of intetest or any dividends declared.
Is the bank now competing with the credit union for depostis and is that why it has stopped accepting deposits at the union? It is even becoming clearer that it shold not have expanded into the banking market to compete with its owner in the same market. What foresght do we have? Lord have mercy, Caswell I dont always like to agree with you, but you like you can see into the future. It means that a marketing war will ensue among the banks and can this new player withstand the stretgies those esetblished bansk will embark on. Where is it going to get the money from to spend on its marketing strategy? would it then hide the amount it spend in a consolidated balance sheet?
Can Capita mortgage portfolio sustain its viability through these recessioany times, does it have the ability to offer lower mortgate rate than the established instituitions to attract new customers and will the customers it attract at the expense of the Union, and if so what are the consequences for the union? can anyone tell me what % of the mortgate market the union had, bfefore the introduction of capita.
Gentlemen and Ladies
I have got the signatureasfrom Customs in Warrens no need to solicit signatures from there or officers in the Frank Watlcott Building(NIS) this information is to avoid duplication of signatures. I have 48 and will definitely be out of the country. I need to know who to hand them to.
@just only asking
Are you guys serious?
Everyone else has gone, JOA. You are alone on the burning deck. David’s question deserves an answer…
I have my signatures, and if i do not hear fram anyone else, the day before i leave they will be submitted to the union requesting a meetig, that will tell me if they are serious or not. I will have to get a few more than 50.
Remember, i am not part of the concerned group as i dont know who the members are, i am assisting in the drive as i have a heavy interest to proteect.
joa where can i sign
Looks like this plan to meet is still born.
@David
That plan to meet might be still born, but I have my signature (48), did not get a chance to get the other 2, but when i reurn if no petition is presneted in my absence, i will get the other signatures and presnt the request.
jack spratt | June 24, 2011 at 5:43 AM |
I am watching this development with interest. My feeling? Bare pappyshow and ole talk!
I told you so!
mine would not print. it gave a message about the website, i will try again, but i trust that with Just Only Asking’s 48, then only 2 more would be needed, so i expect to see that the meeting will still take place.
Very interesting to note both CAPITA and Public Workers Credit Union needing to advertise at this time for deposits when the market is said to be liquid by Governor of the Central Bank in his last review of the economy.
well it understanding for capita as they are new buisness and need some more capital to have growth in mortgages their bread and butter. bpwcu on hand well who know maybe they want bigger piece of the pie than they already have. as there is no separation of account i really can’t distinguish between the long deposit held by bpwcu and capita. the prime share and call deposit where generally flat. the main increase came form term deposits as they have in past. a growth of 53 million compare to a growth of 34 million the year before. the bank efficeny rate has gone down 10 points but i guess that mainly due to the increase bad debt.
@anthony
The issue here is not about the deposit composition but questioning why must BPW credit union advertise in a market described as liquid.
becuase it liquid doesn’t mean they will get their share. the credit union has prosper quite well under the itsa regime. it is after all just term deposit with tax allowance. Without this benefit will they received the same growth they had year before. They seem to think no and i would agree with that the think. the removal of the itsa could very well spell the end of growth we seen in movement so far. So they must advertise more to keep in line with the figures in previous years. Now with the integration of capita deposit into the organisation if is hard to see if the credit union actually experience an actual growth in deposit or was in the assets from capitia. A clear picture here would acutally be helpfully in determine the actual state of union so it is import and lead to answer why they must advertise.
@anthony
A look at BPW credit union balance sheet shows loans growing at a faster rate than deposits. Even if you are correct there is something call management i.e. slow lending.
@David
is the meeting still on today?
@smooth chocalate
BU facilitated the communication, it is up to the concerned members to mobilize. To answer your question, there is no reason we know of why concerned BPW credit union members should not meet to discuss next steps. Feel free to report, many here remain skeptical it will materialize, led by Jack Spratt.
WARNING Pine hill milk recall.
http://www.nationnews.com/index.php/articles/view/phd-milk-recall/
The meeting from the concerned members come off?? Them members like them is a bunch of frauds. As a member of staff the things that get raise in de blog true true. Right now is a big question about who gine get axe from the credit union. And we getting exploit fuh real.Last year we mek a good profit and workers get a good bonus. This year is crazy bad. Imagine some of the hardest working staffers get bonuses of a few measly dollars. And to add insult to injury, today de Capita financials in de Nation. Wuh help dat is to staff or members? Somebody help meh answer dat.
@Fed-up Worker
You know how it is in Barbados, we love to grumble behind closed doors.
What is your view about the Capita financials?
What is immediately apparent on perusing the Capita balance sheet is the extent to which its Loan to deposit ratio is headed in the wrong direction.
i.e Deposits 82.2 million/loans 106.1 million
It explains why Capita has been advertising heavily in recent weeks.
The fact that the market is liquid should help, we hope!
Pingback: Why Barbados Public Workers in the News Again?Barbados Underground