Free Healthcare For BARBADIANS

Minister of Health Donville Inniss

What is all the hullabaloo about regarding who should get free healthcare in Barbados? Is it not a simple matter? You show proof of Barbadian citizenship and voila, the transaction is done. If it were so simple. It seems we live in times when to be educated does not mean an ability to be solution oriented.

BU has delivered some deserved licks to Minister Donville Inniss in the past on how he handled the Ishmael Sparman matter and a few other matters. There is that name Sparman again! The Minister is always the first to remind Barbadians he is the son of a fisherman and therefore his back has the texture of a turtle. On the matter of enforcing the rules which direct who should get free healthcare, BU is 100% behind the minister. It seems every matter under the sun has to be politicised nowadays in Barbados to satisfy political expediency.

The Barbados Labour Party (BLP) opposition led by Mia Mottley has started to rail about the health of Barbados coming under threat because of the improved vigilance demanded by Minister Donville Inniss on who gets free healthcare. A policy of enforcing existing regulation appears to be separating the legal from the illegal. The minister is on record promising favourable consideration to Barbadians who have been lazy in processing their ‘papers’ to the Immigration Department and therefore have been exposed by the process.

On the weekend the local media reported a backlog of filings to the Immigration Department going back several years. The BU family warned about the open door policy of the previous government and the seeds of wanton mismanagement sowed at the building on the Wharf Road now coming back to bite Barbados in the rear. The irony is that we have a BLP now in opposition who would seek to make political hay at the situation being played out. Of course a big consideration for the effort is cost reduction in the healthcare sector, who is denying it? At the same time the minister is not an ass, he must have functionaries in his ministry who are capable and obligated by law to apprise him about the impacts of his rigorous enforcement of policy.

Did we hear the same bawling when illegal immigrants were squatting in Zone 1 areas during the last administration? Did we hear the same cacophony when illegal immigrants were reported to be renting pig pens for accommodation during the last administration? Did we hear the same noise when one and two room apartments were being rented to ten people at a time during the last administration? Did the aforementioned practices not pose a threat to the health of Barbadians at the time? While a tit for tat policy is not condoned by BU, the illustration serves to expose the hypocrisy of politicians. Surely healthcare is an issue which should not be made a political football. Why must we politicise everything in Barbados?

During the last general election the anti-Barbados position adopted by the BLP on immigration was one of those issues which did not endear it to Bajans. It seems we have a case of a group of people bent on repeating mistakes of the recent past. Barbadians will be the ones to vote next general election not Caricom citizens legal or illegal. Here we are in a slow economic period with government under severe pressure from those same BLP voices clamouring to reduce the current account deficit. One would like to believe that on the issue of healthcare politicians can dispense with taking this matter to the football field.

If you are Barbadian in possession of obligatory citizenship ‘papers’ free healthcare is waiting for you. If you do not have the ‘papers’ you have to pay! Exceptions will be made on a case by case business given the mess inherited at the Immigration Department which fuelled the laissez faire approach to immigration in Barbados in the recent past.

139 thoughts on “Free Healthcare For BARBADIANS


  1. I too is backing the minister 100%, there are persons from within CAricom, who are coming to Barbados on so-called “vacation”, remaining in the country and eventually working, then they bring their family over. One of the main reasons, as told to me by a guyanese, is our education and health system. Under the previous administration, these persons benefitted at the expense of bajans, since many didn’t pay the same taxes as bajans but in the case of a medical emergency, the drain the Barbados health system. I know of a case where a illegal guyanese was working and fell from a ladder and was paralysed, he remain in the hospital for months and his family couldn’t pay but it was costing the Barbados government about Bds $ 10,000.00 per day to keep him, and this is only one of many cases I’ve heard about. The education system is just as bad, illegal children are educated free because the system is not strict with the rules governing the entry of children into school in Barbados, but in any case there is a law that states , all children residing in this country, MUST attend school. Our economic situation is very tight and thisgovernment MUST find means in safeguarding the rights of its citizens, therefore if the minister sees it fit to pull the screws on illegal people then hats of to him, because one has and application in asking for citizenship, it does not entitle one to citizen benefits.


  2. But David of BU health care ain’t free.

    Barbados is one of the most heavily taxed jurisdictions in the world.

    We pay heavy, heavy, heavy taxes for the “free” health care.

    And some of those now being denied “free” health care have been paying taxes in Barbados for decades and decades.

    Lemme give you an example David. I have sibling who left Barbados at 18 in 1955. Said sibling who has NEVER PAID A CENT OF TAXES IN BARBDOS. not a single cent David can come “home” tonight and access our health care system that some idiots call “free”

    I have a young Bajan friend married to a “foreigner” who has lived in Barbados for 14 years and who has paid taxes in Barbados (and who has NEVER PAID TAXES ANYWHERE ELSE BUT BARBADOS) all her working life and who can’t access a “free” aspirin in our health care system

    And furthermore the young foreign wife has also been told by Immigration that she can’t apply for Bajan citizenship as she has a Caricom skilled nationals certificate, yes the young wife graduated from Bajan primary and secondary schools and from UWI, Cave Hill. Therefore this young wife who has committted to reman n Barbados paying Bajan taxes all her life is being told that she must forever remain in limbo, that she can never be granted Barbadian citizenship.

    Either Immigration is lying.

    Or Immigration does not understand Barbados’ Immigration law.

    David I would rather the Barbados government deny my 100 % Bajan sibling access to our health care system.

    And permit my young foreign friend access.

    What is happening now is bare foolishness.

    He who pays the piper (taxes) should be able to to dance to the music (access the “free” health care).

    And I don’t care what you and Donville say when ya wrong ya wrong.


  3. Quoting Scout ” I know of a case where a illegal guyanese was working and fell from a ladder and was paralysed, he remain in the hospital for months and his family couldn’t pay but it was costing the Barbados government about Bds $ 10,000.00 per day to keep him”

    So Scout if a man is crippled while building a building in Barbados for a Bajan and while working for a Bajan employer if Barbados does not look after him then who will?

    I feel if Barbados’ work mash-up the man then Barbados (preferbly his employer’s insurance company) owe’s him compensation.

    And Scout don’t you think that the Barbados government should have and shoud enforce regulations that employers MUST HAVE INSURANCE whih covers their workers, especially people who are doing such hazardous work as roofing.

    Do you have insurance for your employees Scout?


  4. Quoting Scout “illegal children are educated free because the system is not strict with the rules governing the entry of children into school in Barbados, but in any case there is a law that states , all children residing in this country, MUST attend school”

    If you think that educating illegal children (what’ s that Scoutty?) is expensive, just wait and see what failing to educate a generation of “illegal children” will cost us.


  5. Frrom over at BFP:-

    what will they think of next
    May 9, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    Everyone and his mother seem to believe that Barbados is the free health care capital of the world.
    Guyanese, Jamaicans, Englishmen, Americans, Chinese and the list goes on and on.
    Is it only me that see a problem here?


  6. Barbados has to be careful with illegal immigrants.

    It is important to make health care accessible to them so that they don’t spread communicable diseases.

    The overall health of the population should not be put at risk.


  7. This is just another reason why the Barbados Labour Party MUST NOT be returned to office anytime soon.

    It would be a free for all.


  8. I think that all businesses that has employees should have insurance for them. This should be mandatory, and enforced to the fullest by those who makes the laws; This is one way of cutting the cost being imposed on the government to foot the health bills. Health issues are serious issues that needs to be addressed without delay. As for the immigration taking care of papers being filed. It seems that like quite a few other government agencies they have 2 speeds.. 1 **DEAD SLOW**and 2 **STOP** . Time is costing the tax payers big time.. When people aren’t taking care of the business at hand. Those in power should then deal with the people who are hired to do these jobs and aren’t doing them. Why keep someone in a job when that person isn’t doing what he or she is being paid to do??? Shake up those who are asleep on the job, or dragging their feet; Barbados believe it or not had a better health system in place before the good old USA. But as always everything in Barbados seem to be selective towards some, more than others;


  9. If this Government get back in power

    something wrong !
    Somehow the Government seems like a Government in its last term and this is something I heard on the call in show last week


  10. Random Thoughts
    Call me insular or xenophobic but it appears the “foreigner” has more say in a man’s country than the man himself. There is a reason why someone has a passsport which declares where you are from. I stated sometime ago that bajans will soon become fifth class citizens in their own country and I’ve lived to see and hear “foreigners” challenging bajans for their Godgiven rights that their foreparents have worked so hard to establish for them. One day coming soon bajans will wakeup and it wouldn’t be nice for someone, the problem, we are too accomodated and people try to take advantage of us.


  11. Random Thoughts
    Something’s wrong with your story about a bajan man with a foreigner wife; are you sure they are married? The laws in Barbados favors women, in that a foreigner woman who is legally married to a barbadian man automatically is given citizenship, however it is not so with a barbadian woma who marries a foreigner man. Therefore if what you’re saying is true, she needs an attorney to deal with that case, unless it was declared a marriage of convenience.


  12. That has always been the law in Barbados concerning benefits.Only Citizens and Permanent residents are entitled UNDER THE LAW for “Free” healthcare and education and Government is only enforcing the law.The lawlessness that was continuing for sometime is what made people believe that Non-nationals whom were not even permanent residents were entitled to these benefits.I applaud Government for doing what is necessary in enforcing the law with regards to benefits and it should have been done a long time ago as we probably would have saved a lot of money over the decades Barbados has been independent.I can’t believe some here think their Citizenship isn’t worth anything and all and sundry just because they “pay taxes” should have access to benefits when the reality is it just doesn’t work that way in the real world and if you travel you’d know.I can guarantee that most major countries require permanent residency at a bare minimum in order to get “free” healthcare like Canada and Australia & The US requires you to have permanent residency[Green card] for a minimum of 5 years to be even eligible.

    Having only Citizens and Permanent residents access to the system I think decreases the burden largely and places extra money in the coffers until the Non-national’s status is upgraded to reflect that they are entitled to such benefits then.I believe there are also no contingent rights in Barbados for CSME holders to access “Free healthcare” in Barbados until they gain at least permanent residency or citizenship as the status is still quite new and there are absolutely no regional rules concerning such,afaik yet.

    Government is doing the right think to bring fiscal responsibility back to the country or VAT will have to go up again to include non-nationals and I know most do not want such.If there was some sort of payment scheme across regional borders then obviously healthcare might not be a major issue as they do in the EU where the country of a person’s birth within the EU actually pays for the healthcare bill in another EU state.I also think Barbados should make it mandatory to employers to provide lodgings and insurance before approvals for work permits could also solve this issue.

    Warning Fact:Entitlements are the number 1 killer to any country’s fiscal responsibility plan.I see that very clearly here in the US,Canada and the UK if you ever visit these places and know that the number 1 reason is due to not taking care of the bills and letting the deficits and public debt increase due to not being too careful with whom you let into the country.One should not fall for the ‘feel good’ attitude when there are major things at stake.

    1.For the US it is Social security and Medicare/Medicaid and main reason for the high debt.They made it 5 years for permanent residents considering how many immigrate every year.
    2.Canada screens every potential immigrant[permanent resident] VERY carefully so you won’t be a burden on the system considering they already have high taxes.
    3.The UK seems to give out benefits to almost every potential immigrant[Asylum seekers] including free healthcare,money and even housing and the public is hugely negative on any potential immigrant right now hence why the conservatives got in led by PM Cameron.They have started a massive removal campaign so the benefits aren’t taken advantage of.


  13. Random Thoughts
    An illegal immigrant should have no rights in another person’s country, it is different if he/she is here on vacation and is hurt (for example) in a road accident, but if you’re here doing an illegal act, how can you claim responsibility by the countries government? How can an illegal person be given insurance in another person’s country to work when that person is doing something illegal; can you get insurance for a person to steal? well this is what an illegal person is doing.
    It is time this government clarifies the immigration matters, since if the matter is allowed to drag on it can only get worse and it can cause major problems here in Barbados.
    Why should my child be fighting for a space in a Barbadian school with a child of an illegal immigrant? Where is my child’s rights as a Barbadian born citizen? Mr Barrow fought hard for “free” education for BAJAN children an it is the envy to the rest of the Caribbean, now other regionalists have seen an opening in this Caricom Treaty and intend to exploit it to it’s fullest. The politicians might make the treaties but WE bajans must make the moral lwas for our offspring. One day a foreigner will squat on your land and declares he/she has the right to do that too. god help this little country, we’re sinking under the weight of over population by “foreigners.”


  14. A total bunch of non-sense, a backward and foolish policy from a foolish Government.

    Do we understand that this policy refuses to grant access to free health care to non-nationals, who are on valid work permits and make NIS contributions?

    If ever the Government wanted to give people a good reason not to pay NIS contributions, this is it. How can you make a man pay contributions to something he cannot access?

    A political ploy to tap into what the DLP believes is national sentiment against too many foreigners in Barbados. This whole immigation and discrimination policy of the DLP will BACKFIRE.


  15. Random Thoughts and Rose Art have some very valid points. So what is the point of a non national on a work permit or permanent resident contributing to the NIS ? NIS and Inland revenue contributions for holders of work permits are almost double to what Barbadians with similar incomes pay.


  16. 1)This noise coming from the DLP is just that… noise .. keep the anti immigrant fire burning, as nothing else is happening.. primarily , economic activity .
    2) The vexation issue of this policy has to do with LEGAL non national working and paying the required taxes. so for all those who keep pushing the “illegal” line, the agenda is plain to see.
    3) If such be the case, then non national should have a different NIS rate as they would not be entitle to certain facilities that NIS was meant to encompass

    ploy…eyes wide shut


    • Have a reread of Jay’s comment.

      The right of the Citizen must be given the most weight in the issue being discussed.

      Paying taxes is NOT the be all and end all.

      In any situation whether personal, business or even by organizations caps are inserted to ensure things don’t get out of hand.

      Barbados is a small country labouring in an adverse economic climate.


  17. If you’re laid-off or sick and you go to the NIS office for benefits, they check to see that your contributions are up to date before they pay. Why can’t it be the same for non-citizens who require medical treatment? We have computers now, you know.


  18. @ Jay
    I noticed you did not mention the UK where foreign students and individuals on work permits are entitled to free health care.
    @RoseArt
    You are correct, it is called demagoguery!! The impression is being given that these individuals are a financial strain on the health care system; but the issue of access to health care can not be viewed solely from an economic perspective. The Minister should give us numbers i.e. evidence to support the government’s position. Are we to expect an end to the annual Ministry of Health supplementary this financial year?
    This is just a continuation of this government’s approach to policy–lacking in evidence, unbalanced, political, poorly researched, illegal and incoherent. However else someone would be entitled to VOTE but not to access free health care?


    • and Enuff your stripes are also showing by ignoring the fact that we have so many people in Barbados who have been free loading on our healthcare.

      If the BLP was not playing politics they would know this to be the case because it is being freely admitted away from the public gaze.

      We need to sort out our problems and somebody needs to step up and do it and stop the pandering for votes!


  19. Bajan you all are to blasted caring and giving. I migrated to the USA over 20 year’s ago as a permanent resident (A Green Car Holder) and have been a US citizen for the pass 6 years had a great paying job with payed benefits that was taken from my salary, so Bajan at home no company pay medical insurance for any employee its your own money deducted from your pay get that in wanna head. I lost that job 2 years ago and was unemployed for that time after the great US economic melt down, today I have a job again now paying me half of what I was making, no benefits any more not even payed vacation (yes they are such company’s in the USA) I apply for free medicate and was turn down why because I make more than $780.00 per month you have to be making $780. or less to qualify for FREE healthcare in NYC and am a TAX paying citizen of the state of NYC and are not entitle.

    Now there is no such thing as free healthcare fin America someone has to pay for it, you go they provide the services needed and bill you later, most people never pay the bill because they give a wrong address etc. or they just never pay the bill when it come and who pays for it in the end tax payers.

    I love my Barbados land of my birth but don’t let outsiders tell you they must get this and they must get that for FREE.


  20. ROSE ART

    “A political ploy to tap into what the DLP believes is national sentiment against too many foreigners in Barbados. This whole immigation and discrimination policy of the DLP will BACKFIRE”

    Open the flood gates let in every tom, dick, and harry, give them everything free and let them overwhelm everything.

    I refuse to believe that you are this STUPID.

    This Government is on the RIGHT PATH.

    That is why my family and I VOTED FOR THEM…….and will vote for them again.

    WE HAVE TO KEEP THE CROOKED BARBADOS LABOUR PARTY ON THE OPPOSITION BENCHES. It is as simple as that.


  21. “White Rum” Arthur is resposible for this garbage.
    His Government encouraged all this illegal immigration into Barbados.

    Instead of locking up the illegals as should have happen he had some of them building cupboards at his home and he publicly admitted it.

    He should have been arrested and charged for breaking the laws of Barbados. But the Royal Barbados Police Force refused to do their jobs properly.

    As a result that Son of a bitch escaped jail time. Now we have to deal with all these foreign dog fleas.


  22. BU/Carson C Cadogan
    I think it is grossly disgraceful for you CCC to refer to the former P.M as a Son of a Bitch, we have moved waaaaaay beyond that type of behaviour, You may not like the man (that is your right) but PLEASE respect the office he held. To you BU this type of behaviour and language towards a distinguished man of this country, should not have been allowed to appear on your blog.


  23. Bajan Living in N.Y
    In every country in the world, citizens of the country are treated in a manner way above anyone else; that’s why it is difficult to gain citizenship to these countries; a high level of deportment is expected from persons who are accepted as their citizens. Only in Barbados can any and everybody believe that it is a free for all. How many other caribbean countries have free education or free medical care, therefore it is cheaper for these people to live in barbados than in their our country. Barbados cannot allow this it will eventually deplete us, then all the good work done by our pass leaders would have been in vain, our offspring will hate us for this.


  24. @ Carson C. Cadogan

    Let’s face it, you are a DLP lacky and that makes you blind to anything they do, although you can see with you eyes.

    How the hell do you explain that after issuing a work permit or some other legal status to/on a non-national and mandating by law, that they must contribute to the NIS even though he cannot access the benefits?

    Its simple Carson, you have some green Ministers who either don’t know what the are doing (and don’t care to understand) or they are being led or misled by civil servants (in which case that is evidence that the don’t know what they are doing) or they are playing politics with serious issues like immigation and healthcare.

    Are you aware that large numbers of British nations legally residing in Barbados have decided to take advantage of the bi-lateral NIS agreement that exist between Barbados and the United Kingdom are are working in Barbados but now paying NIS in the United Kingdom?

    That is the result of the foolish policy which expects legally resident non-nationals to pay into a system in which they cannot access the benefits.

    The Minister is WRONG. I will be the first to say the I like Donville Inniss. If a man admits he has faults, he has one less fault to admit too.


  25. @ CCC

    “As a result that Son of a bitch escaped jail time. Now we have to deal with all these foreign dog fleas”

    You will recall that DHJ Thompson (RIP) was once a, as you put it, “foreign do flea in Barbados” Do you know that?


  26. David,
    I have never hidden my ‘stripes’, and as I have mentioned before who wins the next election is not a concern of mine. Winning is one thing and governing is another, which since 2008 has been clear to all and sundry. My stance is based on common sense, as I have always argued, emotion too often guide our opinions.
    This government embarked on an immigration agenda early in its term of office, which sought to rid the island of illegal immigrants. If that operation was/is a success, illegal immigrants must now be a minor issue and their access to free health care an insignificant component of the debate regarding the cost of the provision of free health care by the State. One must therefore deduce that the issue is about persons who are eligible for citizenship and permanent residence, unless their much heralded IMMIGRATION plan has failed.
    Given the above it is clear that the announcement by the Minister is purely political aimed at “pandering for votes”, and not based on any expected savings in the provision of health care. My position is further supported by the disclosure made by the same Minister about there being 15,000 back cases when his government came to office, but no indication as to what progress has been made since assuming the reins of government. This is especially important because once these applications are processed there is a possibility that a large number of persons currently not accounted for in calculating costs will in the near future become eligible via permanent residence or citizenship. I argued in my earlier post that there is a lack of coherency and coordination in government policy, and this is further evidenced by the clear disconnect that exists between immigration and access to health care policy. A more proactive approach would be to deal with the issues in immigration so that policy formulation could be based on evidence and strategic, as opposed to short-sighted, politicised and knee-jerk reactions.
    Lastly, your attempt to parallel this issue with squatting, the renting of pig pens and overcrowded housing makes little sense to me. How many Barbadians grew up in, and some continue to live in homes, with too few rooms? The fact is that overcrowding has always been amongst us and will continue; the key however is that persons in the household are free of communicable diseases and if they happen to contract such that access to health care is available even if they can’t afford to pay.
    Are/were only non-nationals squatting? Clearly, the BLP understood that a knee-jerk reaction to these issues was not the way to go, and I am told that the matter of relocating squatters was being addressed as part of housing policy, and many locations currently being used by the NHC including Fordes Rd and Haggatt Hall etc were earmarked. What about their plans for decentralised sewerage?
    This is how policy, though slow in implementation, is devised by taking a broad approach to the issue and recognising the need to analyse and balance the environmental, social, political and economic costs and benefits.


  27. enuff

    “Given the above it is clear that the announcement by the Minister is purely political aimed at “pandering for votes””

    The only people pandering for votes are the Barbados Labour Party.

    They are desperate. They have nothing of any substance to offer the people of Barbados so they are trying to ferment unrest in Barbados.

    Since they were removed from office they have offered Barbadians nothing of any worth at all. They are bankrupt of ideas.

    GLOOM AND DOOM, GLOOM AND DOOM that is all they have to offer. We have been subjected to this from them since Jan. 2008. The fact all their ALL predictionS have fallen flat on their face is not stopping these Barbados Labour Party boneheads.

    Pitiful, sorry bunch of losers.


  28. ROSE ART

    “Its simple Carson, you have some green Ministers who either don’t know what the are doing”

    BUT YOU DO?

    I don’t recall seeing you on top of any political platform begging Bajans for a vote at election time. You don’t have the guts or the intelligence for such.

    We voted them into office and they are doing the people’s business and all Bajans with common sense are supporting them.


  29. Carson,
    Your responses are always bereft of substance. I implore you to read Harry Russell’s column in yesterday’s Nation; and I can confirm that BNB has been sending home part-time workers for the past four months.


  30. Enuff

    I can tell you that Sandra Husbands will loose her deposit in the upcoming General Elections.


  31. Why not address the fact the Immigration Department is under pressure to respond to the thousands of application found by this government?

    Why are we not addressing the real problem? Why politicize everything?


  32. David,
    That was the gist of my argument no?

    “A more proactive approach would be to deal with the issues in immigration so that policy formulation could be based on evidence, and strategic, as opposed to short-sighted, politicised and knee-jerk reactions.”

    @ Carson
    It wont be my money. lol


  33. Caswell Franklyn is on the mid day VoB talk show telling it like it is BU style. Kudos to VoB for giving him a voice. Looks like somebody listening to the BU family.


  34. I’d like Immigration to review documents and grant all applicant’s citizenship within a year of applicaiton.

    Or within the same year tell them a firm no, followed by removal.


  35. @ David

    Is it David or Peter?

    There was no immigation issue before the DLP came to power. The applications for work permits and other forms of status we being processed, appoving some, rejecting some and deporting others post elections in 2008.

    Since 2008 Barbadians do not know where the GOB stands on the issue of immigation, and thats becuase there is no clear policy on the issue. At best it can be characterised as developing along with the attendant mistakes of trying to make a policy have you have set out on a journey without knowing either where you are going or where you will end up.


  36. Enuff said:
    I noticed you did not mention the UK where foreign students and individuals on work permits are entitled to free health care.

    Did you also noticed I said that is EXACTLY why they are doing a massive removal campaign in the UK on immigration numbers.Did you notice that the Cameron government will be limiting those who come in on Work permits and Student visas or are you just being disingenuous ? Considering there are so many from the UK visiting Barbados one just needs to ask a few to get a picture of how they truly feel about it.The benefits going to non-UK citizens,hell some even admit not liking EU nationals taking advantage of the system.You chose only the UK because it was the only country doing such and currently trying to reverse that and you know it !!!!!!
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1309369/Student-visa-crackdown-immigration-minister-vows-cut-number-arrivals.html
    http://www.expathiring.com/news/uk-to-cut-non-eu-skilled-work-permits/
    ———————————————
    Roseart said:

    Do we understand that this policy refuses to grant access to free health care to non-nationals, who are on valid work permits and make NIS contributions?If ever the Government wanted to give people a good reason not to pay NIS contributions, this is it. How can you make a man pay contributions to something he cannot access?

    IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE POLICY,NOTHING WAS FREE for NON-nationals whom were NOT Permanent residents at the very least!!!!! It is just that it is now being currently enforced,call any government office or BLP headquarters to confirm or do your own homework.Entitlements are the number 1 killer to any country’s budget if there is no fiscal discipline and I take it Mr. Inniss knows this.Many countries require that non-nationals have Insurance before they are given long term visas and I suspect Government might have to include this in the Green paper if it isn’t already included.I don’t see how anyone can logically dictate that services be given to people whom are NOT legally entitled to such and those that have placed more monetary resources into the system as citizens and permanent residents all their lives should be secondary to non-nationals who had no right in the first place.


  37. @Rose Art

    Concerning your NIS argument..that is LIMITED to 3 years max. and considering the amount of Bajans in the UK I think that is OK but even UK nationals aren’t always given the insurance according to their site.

    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/nic/work/ss-agree.htm

    “Basic Rule – You pay contributions in the country where you work

    If you work in a country with which the UK has a Reciprocal Agreement or Double Contribution Convention you are usually insured under the social security laws of the country you work in. You will not usually have to pay UK National Insurance contributions. But this is not always the case. “


  38. @ Jay

    You seem to miss the point/principle, how can someone (example: a non-national on a work permit in Barbaods) be required by law, to contribute to the National Insurance Scheme of Barbados and then not be able to access the benefits of the scheme.

    Think about it, its like making a man take out insurance and pay premiums but in the event of some peril he is not insurance against anything. In other words he has contributed to nothing.

    Its rather simple, if someone is here legally by whatever means and upon whatever status and they are making contributions then they should be able to access the benefits for which their contributions are used to pay.

    The irony here is that in a system like NIS the more people you have on the system (paying contributions) the more financially sound the system should be not to mention it should also be more resilient to shocks.


  39. To further cement my points there is certainly no discrepancy as people only assume non-nationals are entitled to such !!!

    http://www.foreign.gov.bb/geneva/category.cfm?category=15

    “What types of social services are available in Barbados?

    Barbados offers a range of social services to NATIONALS free of cost, including free primary health care and free education up to tertiary level. ”
    ——————————————
    The issue is that many non-nationals applying for status[whether immigrant or citizenship] and some Bajans believe non-nationals have the same rights in terms of access to social services in Barbados when that is certainly NOT the case.APPLYING FOR STATUS IS NOT THE SAME AS HAVING IT APPROVED AND CONFIRMED BY THE IMMIGRATION DEPT FOR THE PURPOSE OF ACCESSING SOCIAL SERVICES IN BARBADOS.

    Everyone should read the following to truly see what is the problem.
    http://sta.uwi.edu/iir/news/theworldtoday/article57.pdf

    “The disparities regarding the delivery of social services, provides a useful insight into the existing state of Contingent Rights in CARICOM member states. Since 1962, successive Barbados governments have continued to view the universal access to social services as rights, which all citizens should, by law, enjoy. Hence, the government offers its citizens several social services such as education and healthcare either free or at a subsidized cost.
    Accordingly, non-national permanent residents in Barbados benefit from these social services at the same cost as citizens. Again, however, the cost for access to social services is not standardised across the region, as for instance, the full cost of education is borne in St. Lucia.”


  40. So many persons with immigrant status lived in Barbados for over thirty years and are now rushing to apply for citizenship.
    My friend who is a JP told me that a lot of these persons never saw the need to apply for citizenship and now that the policy of free health care for nationals only is being carried out they are filling up the immigration department with applications and complaining on the call in programs.
    Mia Mottley should know that free health care for all Barbadians and all who are in Barbados is not sustainable.
    If non nationals are paying taxes then that is for riding on the buses, driving on the roads, having access to good water. They are living here and therefore they have to contribute.


  41. @RoseArt

    I noticed you said “Principle” which can be translated as a belief or a proposition.What I wrote however was the “law” because it has been policy since 1962 !!!!!


  42. @ Jay
    The reduction in the number of work permits being issued by the UK government has had no impact on the policy regarding access to free health care. Universities, the business community and even the Secretaries and Ministers responsible for these portfolios are against the reductions. Furthermore, every one knows that the Conservative arm of the Coalition government is anti-immigration and their policies are based purely on political motives and as such are often lacking cohesion and open to Judicial Review.
    How interesting that you opine:
    “Entitlements are the number 1 killer to any country’s budget if there is no fiscal discipline and I take it Mr. Inniss knows this.”
    This is too funny given the current government’s approach to the transport board, NHC houses, constituency councils etc.


  43. Taxes arent only for healthcare purposes taxes help subsidize the cost of some of the services that we take for granted. imagine if our tax structure didnt seild some of the burden, we would be paying 6 dollars in bus fare, 4+ times as much for other things. taxation is more complexed than some ppl are making it out to be.


  44. Free health care (and it ain’t free since it cost those of us BOTH Bajans and foreigners who live and WORK and PAY TAXES here pay a bundle in income tax, land tax, VAT, duties etc., etc. etc.) should NOT BE AVAILABLE to all Barbadians.

    Barbadians who live work and pay taxes overseas should access their health care in the places where they live and work and pay taxes.

    Those Bajans who return to live in Barbados should be made to pay into the system for a year or so first before they can make claims on the system (the actuaries can decide of how much wait time makes financial sense).

    Foreign migrants into Barbados should have to pay for a year or so first too before they can access “free” health care (again the acturies can make the calculations)

    Genuine emergencies and contagious and infectious illnesses should of necessity should be treated for everybody.

    And people moving to Barbados, both Bajans and foreigners should be informed beforehand that they MUST purchase private health insurance for the first year or so (or whatever amount of time is the acturaries decide)

    Fair to everybody.


  45. @ Jay

    Please read the below and revert to me:-

    By Almroth Williams, National Insurance Department

    Under the CARICOM Single Market and Economy (CSME), the free movement of labour enhances the availability of a ready pool of labour and skills and provides employment opportunities in other labour markets within the region for Barbadians. In relation to Barbados’ social security system, migrant labour could compensate for the low population growth projected and concomitantly circumvent any fall off in the contributions to the National Insurance Scheme. However, there are some questions as to whether the National Insurance Scheme is ready for the potential increase of migrant workers under the CSME.

    From its inception, the National Insurance Scheme was never a system of social protection for ‘Barbadian workers’, but rather ‘workers in Barbados’, notwithstanding their nationalities. The National Insurance and Social Security Act (Chapter 47) clearly stated:

    12. (1) Subject to this Act, every person who, on or after the appointed day, being over the age of sixteen years and under pensionable age, is gainfully occupied in employment in the Island, being employment under a contract of service, shall be insured under this Act in respect of the several contingencies in relation to which benefits are provided under subsection (1) of section 2 1 and there shall be payable to or in respect of any such person, in the prescribed circumstances, any benefit payable by virtue of the said subsection.

    “Every person” signifies that regardless of nationality or even legal status, all workers in Barbados are entitled to social security coverage. The “shall be” makes insurance under the Act mandatory, thereby making the employer, who denies the worker the right to be insured, liable for prosecution.

    One can argue that the architects of the programme of national insurance were therefore forward thinking in the development of the legislation. There was therefore no need to amend the legislation to facilitate the free movement of labour under the CSME.

    Barbados’ social security system, which is a relatively mature system, has been proven and tested as an effective social safety net to anyone who worked in Barbados long enough to qualify for benefits, especially as it relates to pensions. Foreign nationals who met the requirements would receive pensions from the system even where the countries in which they reside do not have reciprocal agreements with Barbados. Other workers who had contributed but fell short of the contribution requirement for a pension would sometimes qualify for sizeable contributory grants i.e. lump sum payments.

    However, the payment of lump sums as final payments at retirement has proven problematic. History is replete with examples of things that can go wrong, the main one being the squandering of funds and falling on straitened circumstances in later years.

    It was therefore recognised that there was need for some mechanism that would allow for the recognition of the social security contributions made in the different territories that would allow for the payment of a pension, or rather a number of smaller pensions in each territory.


  46. My question for Rose Art is a simple one. NIS contributions go only for health care or does the country offer more services? If one’s vehicle is insured for liability only can that same person expect comprehensive coverage after something happens? This has nothing to do with like nor dislike for a party, but rather how sustainable is this burden in these times? Government has to enforce its imigration policy, and make changes where necessary for the open door policy assures no gain for those who hold birth- rite, for when the stream from which we all drink dries up, and it will quite soon , folk like Rose Art ,Tina Roach , Ruth and crew will point their fingers (or perhaps tentacles ) in one direction only. As this mess relates to education let me point out that in New York if you live in one district and dare register your child in another ,IT IS A FELONY .On conviction you can be sentenced to five years in the federal pen. Just to make sure that you don’t get it twisted I am talking about Americans by birth and naturalization. Bottom line is this .To have access to the services in Barbados you need to be a Bajan by birth or naturalization .Avail yourself of the process.


    • @Rose Art

      Ok, let us see if the BU family delivers. If your position is supported in law then we would need to change the law.


  47. @ David

    Show me or direct me to which law or statue in Barbados states that only Nationals have a right to access to free healthcare in Barbados. It is clear that under the National Insurance and Social Security Act benefits are not determined by nationality, so I want to see where nationality or a specific immigation status is used to make the distinction between those who can and those who can’t access free health care.

    I am not convinced that there is a law in Barbados which makes free health care a right of only those who are Nationals. I have no political axe to grind.


  48. @ HAMILITON HILL

    You said ” Bottom line is this .To have access to the services in Barbados you need to be a Bajan by birth or naturalization .Avail yourself of the process”

    It is clear from the National Insurance and Social Security Act that a non-national, including those on work permits, can obtain the benefits, such as a NIS pension providing they are registered and have made contributions.

    Because a Government of the day says that only Nationals can access free health in Barbados does not make it so. Without more, like a law or statute which legally prevents them from obtaining free healthcare then what is the position?


  49. @ David

    I assume from your comments you support the view/position/policy that persons who are not Nationals or permanent residents should not be allowed free healthcare in Barbados by state run medical facilities.

    I say that because of your statement ” If your position is supported in law then we would need to change the law.”

    If I am wrong please correct me. If I am right and you believe only National or permanent residents should be the only ones accessing free health care in Barbados, what informs your position……….I can’t believe you would hold that view purely because of nationality.

    The better policy of the GOB Barbados should be that only those persons legally in Barbados and who can provide a certificate of paid taxes or filed tax returns and or NIS contributions in Barbados can access free healthcare from state funded/run medical facilities in Barbados.

    This way, all those who are contributing to Barbados social services legally can legally access the attendant benefits, those who are illiegal cannot.


    • @Rose Art

      BU’s position is simple.

      Paying taxes is not the criterion we use to allow unfettered access free healthcare.


  50. Perhaps we should stop providing “free” health care and make everyone buy insurance. That way, I will pay less tax!


  51. this topic will generste much interest, however the country just can’t continue to pay the bills for illegals


  52. ROSE ART

    You are just wasting your time. The new policy is not going to change and I am very happy about that

    So you will just have to pull your pocket and pay for your health care.

    Freeloader.


    • A slight digression BU received a note that the controversial Chairman of the QEH Guy Hewitt was fired from his day job at the CXC.


  53. @ Scout

    I think that is pretty much a given but the current debate is about if Legal work permit holders are entitled to “Free healthcare” in Barbados when they are paying taxes into NIS while in Barbados legally.Afaik,only Permanent residents and Citizens are allowed free healthcare.
    —————————————
    @Enuff said
    The reduction in the number of work permits being issued by the UK government has had no impact on the policy regarding access to free health care. Universities, the business community and even the Secretaries and Ministers responsible for these portfolios are against the reductions. Furthermore, every one knows that the Conservative arm of the Coalition government is anti-immigration and their policies are based purely on political motives and as such are often lacking cohesion and open to Judicial Review.

    I say:

    The immigration reduction cuts down simply on the amount of taxes relegated to the entitlements mentioned while in the UK[duh] since there would be less people there and I didn’t see you mention the most important one,the BRITISH VOTING PUBLIC.Of course it had an impact ,Why do you think the Conservatives an anti-immigrant party won,lol?It was all due to the entitlements that the then Labour Government was giving to asylum seekers and UK citizen’s taxes were the ones paying for it,or are you selective in memory ? Labor lost simply because the British public did not trust him due to the immigration issue issue when they are paying taxes through the nose already and I can’t believe some in Barbados would like to replicate such in Barbados with a very High-Vat to support non-nationals in the healthcare system.It is the same in Barbados WHY should Barbados citizens and Permanent resident’s whom have been putting into the system all their lives allow non-nationals whom are only there on a brief working stint for a short prescribed period in Barbados to be allowed something completely free ?Do you know how expensive that could be to NIS and guess who’d pay for it all those that have a more permanent allegiance to Barbados in the form of Citizens and Permanent residence whom are more than likely to be still PAYING taxes……..not those on a brief stint !!!!!

    —————————————————

    @RoseArt

    Can you repost what you have with a valid URL link..as usually I like to see the source of what people are basing their facts on.


  54. For what I understand, when you make your NIS contributions you are insuring against such benefits; injury beneifts, unemployment benenfit, sick benefit, maternity benfit, invalidity benefit, among others, but not free health care.
    There is nothing in the National Insurance and Social Security Act CAP 47 qualifying someone for free health care.


  55. Quoting jack spratt | May 10, 2011 at 9:12 PM | “Perhaps we should stop providing “free” health care and make everyone buy insurance”

    But jack spratt my taxes are the insurance I pay for my health care (and perhaps part of yours too).


  56. Dear Manasseh U King:

    So what happens to our income tax, VAT and Customs duties “contributions” Including those “contributions” paid by foreigners who live and work in Barbados??


  57. @ CCC

    Because I articulate position in defense of access to free healthcare regardless of nationality or immigation status, you assume two things, I am a foreigner (hence the reference to pulling my pocket) and that I am freeloader (clearly another reference to the assumption that I am a foreigner).

    You are wrong on both counts. I am from bout hey, I ain’t no foreigner. However on a slightly different note, I assume you know that you are a walking talking example of someone who did not take advantage of the free enducation system in Barbados.

    I would like to remind you of two things:-

    1. Of all the things that bind people, politics is the weakest and most juvenile.
    2. God don’t like ugly, stay away from the mirror and God.


  58. @ David

    I want to be so bold as to bet that within 6 months that so-called policy about only Nations or Permanent Residents accessing free health care, will be removed, relaxed or not enforced ( although I don’t know how you can enforce something that unlawful).

    I can’t believe that Barbadians are silly enough to fall for the non-sense, this is political and ill-conceived posturing at its highest level with the simple calculations of garnering more votes in the next election. It has nothing to do with reality, its political gobbledegook.


  59. Thank you RoseArt,

    But it is as Manasseh mentioned no where did I see anything concerning approved “Free healthcare” for non-nationals in what you posted.Only that it has to do with NIS payments and that non-nationals could potentially take care of any budget shortfall within NIS which is exactly what I’m getting at with what Inniss is currently doing.

    What I posted concerning Contingent rights is exactly what must be approved first before Non-nationals can be approved healthcare in Barbados unless the BLP wins and curtails the current enforcement system.I don’t see Freudal Stuart doing that anytime soon as he is the only Prime Minister within CSME that can move on the Contingent rights issue of CSME workers.

    My point is very simple non-nationals should not be given Free healthcare in Barbados and must prove themselves through their NIS donations that they are going to be there for the long haul.If they have placed a significant amount for any possible shortfall within NIS then I might be more inclined to not consider it an issue but to give someone something Free not knowing what potential ailments they may incur could be very costly if they have Free Healthcare considering their work permits are only valid for a certain amount of time.
    ————————————
    Random Thoughts said:

    Barbadians who live work and pay taxes overseas should access their health care in the places where they live and work and pay taxes.

    Those Bajans who return to live in Barbados should be made to pay into the system for a year or so first before they can make claims on the system (the actuaries can decide of how much wait time makes financial sense)

    I say:

    Uh,that wouldn’t make any sense at all as most that return aren’t necessarily likely to be monetarily strapped considering the amount of programs there are for retirement….. at least here in the US.A well stocked portfolio consisting of an IRA and Matching 401 K and Social security payments can go a looooong way with regards to never having to be worried about returning nationals coming back and being a burden on the system.


  60. Random Thoughts
    What are the benfits of being a BARBADOS CITIZEN? Do these non-barbadians recieve “free healthcare” when they pay the same taxes in their own country? Do they recieve “free education ” when they pay taxes in their own country? Then tell me why Barbados should treat them better than they are treated in their own country? I am a BAJAN and I demand priority treatment at home, treatment superior to that given to anyone from any other country, that’s because I’m a BARADIAN CITIZEN


  61. Let me ask a couple of questions. How much money is to be saved by this new policy and will it make the healthcare more efficient?

    The first question is relevant, in that the savings on a policy should be looked at holistically. For example, if say, we are saving 3 million a year on this, but cost overruns on major projects amount into the hundreds of millions, why are we crucifying healthcare, when we are frittering away losses elsewhere?

    Further, if we are saving fifty million here, are we also cimmitted to eliminating cost overruns on major projects, thus being constrained accross the board?

    On the second question, efficiency can not come from cost savings alone.

    Effieciency has to do with the correct application of resources.

    Thus, it is the best spending of what you actually do spend and the best methods in providing your product or service.

    Therefore, if we are saving 3 million on this new policy, to then spend the 3 million on training more nurses or buying updated equipment for diagnosis and treatment, then we have some benefit and there is a reason behind the actions.

    If however, we are saving say, 3 million to then just say that we have not drawn as much from the consolidated fund, are we really doing anything ‘magical’?

    There is no doubt that the efficiency and resources at the hospital need improvement, but that comes only with increased input of time, training, money and efficient application of those resources.


  62. GUY HEWITT CHAIRMAN OF BOARD FIRED BY CXC. ONLY PERSON TO BE FIRED AT THAT INSTITUTION. NO WONDER HE WANTS TO RUN FOR A SEAT. HE HAS A DARK SECRET THAT WILL PRECLUDE HIM FROM NOMINATION.


  63. It would be interesting to see the figures, what percentage of illegals and non nationals that were abusing/using the system and not paying. And the actual dollar worth …I want real figures not trumped up ones or guesstamations.


  64. This is not rocket science. IF YOU ARE NOT A CITIZEN BY BIRTH, DESCENT OR NATURALIZATION YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO FREE HEALTH CARE IN BARBADOS.
    That was the policy all along but things were very good and enforcement was not carried out. NOW THINGS ARE TIGHT AND IT MUST BE ENFORCED.
    The BLP will lose on this one again because most Barbadians will go with the government on this issue and any issue that tries to bring some balance to our bulging budget.
    I am not going against this government for no Caribbean people because we are the worst things whenever we have to stand up for our rights in this Caribbean.


  65. ROSE ART

    “You are wrong on both counts. I am from bout hey”

    Then your position make you BLP.
    As I said before you have to be a special breed of person to be a BLP supporter or member.

    Every stupid, foolish, outlandish, asinine, rediculous, unreasonable position will be articulated by you people,because you have nothing better to offer, and then you expect sensible people to back you.

    Get a life ROSE IDIOT.


  66. @ CCC

    I will have you know I do not, nor have I ever, supported the BLP. I do however support common sense and reasoned though both of which I appreciate are foreign to you.

    You are a political lacky……..a political yardfowl and as a result you have taken it upon yourself to be the one ( on behalf of the DLP) to fan the flames of xenophobia in Barbados.


  67. @ | May 9, 2011 at 9:42 PM |
    quoting Random Thoughts “So Scout if a man is crippled while building a building in Barbados for a Bajan and while working for a Bajan employer … I feel if Barbados’ work mash-up the man then Barbados…owe’s him compensation.”

    the guy was an illegal immigrant. he should not be here in the first place working illegally. if he was not here, he won’t have been injured here. that’s the price he paid. sorry


  68. Quoting Mabel Hewitt
    “GUY HEWITT CHAIRMAN OF BOARD FIRED BY CXC. ONLY PERSON TO BE FIRED AT THAT INSTITUTION. NO WONDER HE WANTS TO RUN FOR A SEAT. HE HAS A DARK SECRET THAT WILL PRECLUDE HIM FROM NOMINATION.'”

    He’s was your man and used to beat you or he like truncking? dark secret what…stupesssssss. i don’t know the man nor do i care but either say what he dark secret is or shut ta hell up.


  69. ROSE ART

    “fan the flames of xenophobia in Barbados.”

    Just letting home drums beat first.


  70. ROSE ART

    Remember what I said earlier, “all BAJANS WITH COMMON SENSE are supporting” the Govt.

    The Govt. is simply taking the bull by the horns and shaking it.

    We are very happy with that.


  71. @ Jay
    You are representative of the point I made about the need for evidence to construct sound arguments and by extension policy. The Conservative party did NOT win the election that is why there is a Coalition government. It is also a fact that more people (in terms of seats won and votes casted) voted against Tory policies including immigration, which contrasts significantly with the other two main parties. The issue of the deficit, the way Gordon Brown assumed leadership of the country and his uncharismatic personality were Labour’s downfall—maybe PM Stuart should pay attention.
    Yet in the recent local government elections, Labour gained 204 seats to the Tories 6; while the LibDem half of the Coalition was decimated losing 148. Small wonder, the latest Guardian/OCM poll shows that Labour remains ahead of the Conservative party and the full impact of public cuts (started this month) were not even factored into the poll.
    As far as I recall, the discussion was about work permit holders and students so I am at a lost as to how all of a sudden asylum seekers have entered the fray. But if you insist, of the 572,000 entrants to the UK annually there are about 4,000 asylum applicants. Even if you add 5 dependents to each applicant, it is still a small percentage. It should be noted that net migration to the UK in 2009 was 196,000.
    Apart from health care, neither work permit visa holders nor students are entitled to government benefits, and as was revealed in the immigration report prepared by the Migration Advisory Committee, persons on work permits seldom use the NHS as they are young, healthy and generally have private health insurance.
    The truth is that the Tories made election promises regarding immigration; and unable to implement these changes they have had to resort to idiotic policies to please their base. They can’t touch EU immigrants so they have had to attack non-EU workers and students, though the focus is on non-degree students who often abscond. Meanwhile businesses and universities are complaining as well as their allies in the Cabinet.
    The internationalisation of capital forced cities/regions to compete against each other. London competes with New York as well as with Cardiff and Edinburgh for inward investment. So all the grandstanding by the Tories will lead to zero because London needs foreign workers; despite being the country of Oxbridge and the Russell Group of universities the UK just does not produce the skilled workforce needed for London to remain a leading global financial centre or Cambridge et al places for cutting edge research. Why you think Obama and other business leaders in the US are pushing for a review of post-study arrangements for foreign students. The Business Secretary Vince Cable understands this well:
    “…the promise to reduce net immigration to tens of thousands a year was Conservative policy, not coalition policy. Much of the remaining immigration from outside the EU is crucial to British recovery and growth.”
    Gillian Duffy, the woman in the video, did not vote for the Conservatives by the way.


  72. Received a reminded on the following issue:

    Trinidad is now faced with the same problem as Barbados. Whether to build a new hospital or refurbish their existing one. The only difference is that Trinidad seems to be taking definitive steps and establishing timelines for resolution of their hospital issue. See attached link from Trinidad Express newspaper: http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Decision_on_PoS_hospital_by_end_of_June-121477264.html


  73. uoting Jay ” here in the US.A well stocked portfolio consisting of an IRA and Matching 401 K and Social security payments can go a looooong way with regards to never having to be worried about returning nationals coming back and being a burden on the system”

    But isn’t it true Jay that expensive medical crises are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the USA?

    And isn’t this the reason that President Obama is trying to put some sort of national health care or national health insurance in place?

    Isn’t it also true that most American’s heath insurance is tied to their jobs and such insurance ceases once the person is no longer employed and certainly ceases if they leave the job and move to Barbados?

    Let me give you an example. How much does top of the line prostate cancer care cost? Would $12,000 to $20,000 BDS sound about right?

    And isn’t it true that this treatment can go on for ten years or more for a total of about $120,000 to $200,000?

    Are you sure that elderly retired sick Bajan/Americans (or Bajan Canadians or Bajan/English) or all have adequate health insurance or $120, 000 to $200,0000 cash set aside for medical expenses?

    I think that you will agree with me that all it takes to eat up the funds from “IRA and Matching 401 K and Social security payments ” is ONE MAJOR LONG TERM EXPENSIVE ILLNESS.

    If catastrophic medical expenses were not catastrophically expensive do you think that your President Obama would have put “Health Care” at the VERY TOP of his domestic agenda?

    And President Obama is one smart guy. One of the brightest and the best that American has produced.

    He thinks that health insurance is important and he is right.


  74. @Random Thoughts: “I think that you will agree with me that all it takes to eat up the funds from “IRA and Matching 401 K and Social security payments ” is ONE MAJOR LONG TERM EXPENSIVE ILLNESS.

    One might reasonable then ask why life saving treatment is so very expensive.

    Might some be taking profit because of the desperation of others?


  75. @ CCC

    If this bunch are simply taking the bull by the horns and shaking it, then thats for one reason and one reason alone, to see what falls out…….cha ching ching.


  76. What are the benefits of being a Barbadian citizen living in Barbados if other persons from within the region can come here illegally and get the same benfits?


  77. Random Thoughts you have given me food for thought.

    As a Bajan Canadian it seems it would be better for me to become a snow bird and spend 2 weeks a year in Barbados and 5months in Florida .

    I can buy medical travel insurance in Canada to cover any expenses outside of Canada.

    That would ensure that I would not be a burden to the taxpayers of Barbados if I should become ill.


  78. Why can’t I go to Trinidad or some of the other countries in the Region to buy land without having premission to do so?

    Because that is the policy. Only when there is a change can I go and but the land without having to seek permission. policies are not static and therefore there must be justification for any change in any policy and the justification must be well thought out and should not be based on emotionalism.

    I gone for now.


  79. Enuff said:
    ……….alot

    Sigh,The conservatives won…….as it is the PM’s job to be primarily responsible for security matters which immigration is included thus in that respect they did win considering they got the majority of the voting British public and ran on a hardline immigration platform whether it is non-EU nationals or EU nationals is redundant.From what I’ve read and whom I’ve talked with whom are born in the UK it is believed that non-Uk nationals are believed are sucking the system dry of benefits whether student visas,asylum seekers or work permit holders or Eu nationals.You also have to remember it is not only the Tories that have been hardline on immigration,Labor has been changing the immigration rules under Brown’s regime thus it is clear to me immigration is an issue in the Uk especially concerning the reaping of benefits.Last I checked,I thought the discussion was about benefits to those that were not deserving of such based on being a non national or at the very least that is how I perceived such.

    http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/uk-public-opinion-toward-immigration-overall-attitudes-and-level-concern

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/0506/UK-election-results-Exit-polls-indicate-Conservative-win-but-hung-parliament

    “Immigration is generally unpopular

    Despite uncertainties involved in measuring and interpreting public opinion, the evidence clearly shows high levels of opposition to immigration in the UK. In recent surveys, majorities of respondents think that there are too many migrants in the UK, that fewer migrants should be let in to the country, and that legal restrictions on immigration should be tighter.”
    ————————————————–

    Random Thought:

    It is actually believed that the Universal Healthcare system that the President and Democrats passed here in the US will increase the US deficit.I cannot understate how important the next budget will be here.It will be a showdown concerning the debt and deficit between the major parties.Projections are that any so-called plan will have to deal with deficit reduction here in the US but the voting public is firmly against it if taxes are increased thus the issue of what next is going to be a huge problem.When I said IRA and 401K those are actually just private pensions not associated with the government in anyway and are actually provided by your employer as private options for retirement.Social Security however is a major issue concerning with the US budget as well as Medicare and Medicaid depending on the plan you are applicable for when elderly but you can also still have private health insurance and any pensioner can pay for such considering the amount that is given AND the exchange rate while in Barbados.Most I have come across are either retired professionals[baccalaureate education or higher] and are citizens have done well for themselves over the years so perhaps that is why I see it that way.Just as Hants mentioned sarcastically,lol considering the Loon is now worth more than the US dollar.


  80. @ Rose Art
    Salutations
    “The better policy of the GOB Barbados should be that only those persons legally in Barbados and who can provide a certificate of paid taxes or filed tax returns and or NIS contributions in Barbados can access free healthcare from state funded/run medical facilities in Barbados”.

    “This way, all those who are contributing to Barbados social services legally can legally access the attendant benefits, those who are illiegal cannot”.

    That is a sound proposition.
    If I am paying into something, then I want something tangible back in return. Otherwise you might as well call it a ponzi scheme.

    There are so many layers to consider yet grouped into two sides.
    1. The legally attained status 2. Those with illegal status.

    How is it moral or ethical to ask a legitimate individual to work and pay taxes and NIS like any other citizen but yet tell them they cannot access the same benefits as a citizen?

    That would be plain and simple institutional theft. judging by venomous comments I cannot believe the majority of the BU bloggers collective would think that is open for debate. I am sorry but if I am national enough to give you my Taxes and NIS from my legally acquired labour, which even then you would say is obligatory, then I am NATIONAL ENOUGH to get all benefits -period. I am not paying for a banquet and sit and watch you eat, absolutely not! But share it of course!

    You can’t have it both ways. either release me from payments into your system and I will wisely provide my own health provisions. Or see the above argument as sound, moral, ethical and civilised.

    On the other hand, being illegal is another matter entirely and falls at the doorstep of all agencies involved. There is an obvious administrative weakness in procedures. If the so call legislation prohibits access, then the question that should be asked is who are the gatekeepers of such access. If you haven’t gotten what I mean so far well focus on this.

    If you clamp down on the employer that employs illegals to save a buck or the nurse or doctor or pharmacist who negates their legal administrative responsibility then this entire debate on illegals accessing the so call free health system would be moot.

    But still what about the Universal Rights of the child or the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? There are plenty of known treaties which among other countries Barbados was a signatory to -with clear yet broad responsibilities to fulfil towards COMMON HUMANITY -helping those who are deprived of basic needs. The last time I check, Health was a basic need.

    But hey times them a changing so maybe those treaties don’t mean a thing so we can throw them in the dust bin -then again maybe not.

    But why are BU (hopefully not the consensus of Barbados on issue) so bitter and heartless towards regional Caribbean islands? I thought Barbados was the Religious capital of the region? Perhaps that is the problem; you’re more religious than spiritual?
    What does the good book of the sun tells us? There is so much defending of it in name, what about in practice.

    What would Yashua Ben Yosef do? Suffer the little children to come unto me -do you remember that one? what about love thy neighbour as thou love thy self? Be in this world but not of this world? -That I am sure that I am because this world is full of a corrupt den of squabbling hypocrites -which I seek no party to. My desire is to raise the higher consciousness of mankind and give quenching to the thirst of the UNADULTERATED TRUTH -which no doubt will be as sweat nectar for some and rancid vinegar to others!
    The first truth needed hear is LOVE!

    @ Carson C. Cadogan | May 11, 2011 at 10:01 AM |
    Salutations
    As for you, don’t take it personally but you are not a nice person towards Rose Art. I agreed with her -your language is ugly -calling others you disagree with names and insults is a demonstration of immaturity of debate etiquette. You are so caught up in this DLP vs BLP political farce I sincerely hope you get the government you deserve.

    Love and light to you all

    Take care of yourself and each other!


  81. Irene Sandiford Garner should have really kept her mouth shut rather than come on Brasstacks today trying to defend the indefensible.

    She did not address the problem that many of the elderly are experiencing which is that they can no longer get the medication they were using and that the substitutions are making them more sick and as one man said the substitute medication was itching his skin.

    What I cannot understand is what economical sense does it make to buy two or three generic drugs to replace one drug? BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT A SPOUSE OF ONE OF THE MINISTERS HAS THE CONTRACT TO BRING IN THESE GENERIC DRUGS.

    A doctor I know who deals with diabetics at the QEH has told me that he was not consulted about the substitution drugs or the changes to the formulary. My spouse takes one high blood pressure tablet per day, I went to collect the medication from a private pharmacy and was offered a substitute. My spouse told me not to take the substitute so I had to purchase the original medication instead.

    What surprised me and most people was the admission from the parliamentary secretary that these old people who are not being given the original medication should go back to their doctor and tell them and they could send them to the hospital where there is a welfare service available.

    Even Patrick Hoyos had to ask her how can these old people who are barely able to walk could go to the hospital to further wait in a long line. She really should have kept her mouth shut.

    My own feelings are that the government moved shabby and before they were ready so much so that even one male caller today who has mental challenges expressed his horrifying experience in getting medication at a polyclinic.

    It is one thing to say you want to change things but what if the change does not make sense.


  82. Quoting Hants 9:54 p.m. 11 May “As a Bajan Canadian it seems it would be better for me to become a snow bird and spend 2 weeks a year in Barbados and 5months in Florida …
    I can buy medical travel insurance in Canada to cover any expenses outside of Canada…That would ensure that I would not be a burden to the taxpayers of Barbados if I should become ill.”

    Hants I’d tell you the same thing I tell my natural American, British and Canadian siblings.

    We all know that OHIP only covers you if you are out of Canada for 184 days or less. You are welcome to spend those 184 days in Barbados, but when those days are up I hope that you have purchased private health insurance or I hope that you go home to Canada, because even though I love you I do not have the money to look after you if you have a disabling stroke or if you need quadruple bypass surgery. So go home because I can’t afford to look after your medical bills, and I doubt that the Ministry of Health can either.

    And we all know that as we become older and sicker it becomes increasingly difficult, and increasingly expensive to purchase private health insurance. Sometimes it becomes impossible to purchase private health insurance because of pre-existing expensive medical conditions.

    We have a saying in Barbados “you can’t take love to the shop”


  83. @ Jay
    You are all over the place with your argument. First it was students and work permits then asylum seekers now non-EU. I, however, am maintaining my original position, the cut to work permits had nothing to do with health care. The Conservative government accepted during the consultation process that such persons were NOT a strain on the system. The cut to student visas also had nothing to do with health care, but the fact that too many students were using that route to get into the UK, especially for short courses, with no intention of studying but to abscond and work full-time. You really think foreign students’ free use of the health service could ever equate with the amount of money they pump into the economy?
    Furthermore, NO RECOURSE TO PUBLIC FUNDS is stamped in the passport of work and student visa holders so I don’t know how they can be sucking the system dry.
    UKIP and BNP were the parties with a ‘hard-line’ stance on immigration as far as I know. FACTS are the Conservatives got 36% of the vote, which was more than any other individual party but still not the majority. Labour and LibDems combined for 52% of the vote. Yes Labour introduced the Points Based System but it was clear and not based on arbitrary numbers like the Tories’ policy.
    Again you are giving perception i.e. “belief” precedence over EVIDENCE. Why do you think the DLP has capitulated so many times on policy after grand announcements? Wait, any progress with the ZR van policy by the way?


  84. This issue of health care has moved pass people without permanent residence status. If there was no change in the policy or laws, how comes people now have difficulty getting their medication which was previously dispensed without a problem???

    It has now come down to blatant discrimination against ordinary Barbadians in the evening of their days. It hurt my heart to hear elderly Barbadians today lamenting their plight on Brasstacks. One man who has mental challenges was particulary distraught about being turned around at a polyclinic and then having to go elsewhere and also the complaints were of the long waiting periods.

    As Mrs P said, these people will not be around to vote for the Dems next time. I remember an ad during the last election, the Dems had an elderly woman in one saying…… the BLP dont care anything about poor people. If she is still alive, I hope she now realise who really care about poor people! Certainly under the Bees she could get her medication not substitutes which are making the old people sicker.

    I spoke to a retired PS in the MOH and he told me had he been still PS, there is no way Donville Inniss could get this foolishness pass him!

    The minister needs to tell Barbados which of his colleagues’ spouse has a contract to bring in these generic drugs. And we have people on this blog talking about corruption in the BLP. I mean they are not in a term yet and they and they lackies are carrying away all the fatted calf.


  85. Just an aside off the topic. Is it true that government has withdrawn its offer to Marston Gibson and that he has threatened to sue for breach of contract in the tune of $2m? Wow, if true, this will be on top of the $60m lawsuit from the marina breach of contract.

    Oh what a tangle mess they’ve made when first they practiced to deceive!


    • It has been known around town for some time that the government has replaced many of the designer drugs which were on the formulary.

      Both political parties have allowed the drug service to get out of control and it is left to the current government to try to pull it back.


  86. Said Enuff,lol:

    You are all over the place with your argument. First it was students and work permits then asylum seekers now non-EU.

    Really,How so ? Selective understanding appears to be your goal.They are basically all known by the same moniker,whether students from outside the UK/EU,Work permit holders or asylum seekers are primarily all Non-EU nationals whether you have statistically read about it or not.

    You still have not said WHY the UK government whether by Labor or Conservative have introduced more immigration reduction measures as time went on let’s say over the last 5-6 years.You also don’t clearly define your meanings……I say the Conservatives won the Majority of the vote based on getting the greater number not on if someone got 50% or more,irregardless the party with the most votes still represented the fact that the voting British Public wanted a reduction not only in Immigration but by extension also the benefits/entitlements given out whether you like that or not.Basic FACT-The lesser the population that enters the UK=The less entitlements such as “Free healthcare” being given out !!!!!! You also make it seem like students are just given free healthcare just because they are in the UK as well which isn’t so.I will also ask that you cite a source because it appears to me you’re just giving hyperbole at this point.
    http://www.avert.org/freenhs.htm
    —————————————–
    Enuf also said:

    Furthermore, NO RECOURSE TO PUBLIC FUNDS is stamped in the passport of work and student visa holders so I don’t know how they can be sucking the system dry.

    Lol,I just have to laugh at this one.Free Healthcare is publicly funded by the UK’s High tax rates and this is what you want a small island with a small population and high taxes to replicate ?I say again,Mr. Inniss did the right thing in enforcing the law as it was written from since 1962 which is for Permanent residents and Citizens alone to have “Free healthcare” in Barbados.The only issue that is valid here is the one ‘Random Thoughts’ brought up and perhaps residency requirements of living in Barbados for more than 1 year should be required before any benefits can be restored to Returning nationals or that they pay into the system for how long they plan on being there at the legal rates.

    The facts as it relates to this won’t change concerning my main point and that is many countries require usually having a baseline status of permanent residence in order to access “Free healthcare” and that is usually paid in part mostly by the Citizens and other Permanent residents of said country.


    • @Jay

      Please explain how a country where successive governments have actively courted Barbadians living in the Diaspora to remit/invest money in Barbados over the years can justify asking them to contribute for 1 year?


  87. Prodigal Son

    I would like you to get all of your “is it true” together and ask all one time.

    You seem to thrive on hot air.


  88. The Minister of Health is right about non nationals but he must consider the complaints of elderly Barbadians about the system of dispensing the drugs.
    It is alright to say go to the polyclinic but those lines don’t be easy even before their new mandate.
    The pharmacists in the polyclinics are like the normal civil servants they operate at a pace that would make you spend hours waiting for drugs.

    Mr. Minister you said you are hiring 12 more pharmacists but that comes at a high cost because let’s say a pharmacist get four thousand dollars a month, could be more, that would be 48 thousand dollars by 12. That is over half million dollars a year.
    Something should be worked out with the private pharmacies like how the elderly use the transport board buses.


  89. David or Jay “Please explain how a country where successive governments have actively courted Barbadians living in the Diaspora to remit/invest money in Barbados over the years can justify asking them to contribute for 1 year”

    Because I have been paying for 40 years.

    And I am tired of all this talk about remittances.

    When people remit money they are sending it to help support their elderly parents or small children. Supporting your young children or elderly parents is just an ordinary responsibility. It is not as though Bajans abroad are remitting money to the government.


  90. Prodigal Son | May 12, 2011 at 6:25 PM |
    Salutations
    “Just an aside off the topic. Is it true that government has withdrawn its offer to Marston Gibson and that he has threatened to sue for breach of contract in the tune of $2m? Wow, if true, this will be on top of the $60m lawsuit from the marina breach of contract”.

    If this is true, trust me when I say that under the criteria stipulated, Marston: Gibson could not have met the qualification, because the united States of America only returned in practice a common law jurisdiction as of the 30th of March 2010. Future history books will affirm this fact one day!
    Love and Light to you!

    Now back to topic.
    Yes we need hospitals and good medical treatment when needed.

    I remember my grandma always saying “an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure”. But my own personal bias is “an ounce of ill health prevention is better than a pound of doctor medication”.

    But did you know our bodies have the ability to reproduce (every 5yrs approx) healthy cells. healthy cells equals a healthy body. But only if it is given the right fuel to do so. That fuel is optimum balanced nutrition. You wouldn’t put Diesel fuel in a Petrol car, so why do we practice similar madness with our bodies?

    Hippocrates around 351 BC is known to have said “Let food be your medicine and medicine be your food”. We have been hidden from such valued principles through the indoctrination system we call school education. But in recent decades nuggets of truth are coming to light -and have become self evident.

    Yes you wash and maintenance your cars, and repair your homes -what about your bodies?

    Do you know that you greatest asset and currency is your HEALTH? And therefore your health is your responsibility not some doctor?

    What happens when you loose your health? you know the obvious answer to that one -yes no fiat currency. You can’t trade the time so you ain’t getting a dime. So don’t play with your health -take responsibility!

    And do your part for your country. The more healthy you are the more healthy is your government’s budget -I digress

    But even with this truth there are challenges. Our foods today are nothing like the food of the blessed past. Have you taste sweet potato lately? Additionally our food is heavily compromised; with GMO manipulation, pesticides, additives, and a whole lot of names that would rack your brains to try to pronounce. I mean don’t get me wrong -it taste reasonably good (not great), looks good but the body on consuming it doesn’t know what to do with it and is left starved of the nutrition it needs. The Irony is with all the “food” around, our bodies are yet suffering from malnutrition and sickness is always close behind.

    But yet today there are so many ways of growing food and of course requires some type of terminology. So I have come to recognised, that which I observed (as a boy) of my dad and grand dad, spreading the fresh manure in the fields was Organic Farming -Whoo Hooo.

    Nevertheless this way of life has suffered the industrial revolution. But many are wisely adopting this method once more -but again, not without its modern engineered challenges. There is a not so hidden hand (Monsanto et al?) that would and has been seeing to it that such ancient ways of food cultivation is ineffective or abolish entirely.

    But why is the world in the 22nd century (technological advancement) so sick? perhaps the answer lies in technology?
    This has been a puzzle for me until I stumble on this video. Yes it is 1hr plus long but if you care about yours and humanities health you should watch it.

    And yet again with a vehement outcry I reject democracy -It has no voice of urgency. The majority of the world’s population would reject this insidious and tenacious attack on the human immune system -wouldn’t they?

    SO WHY IS IT ALLOW TO HAPPEN? Because the tacit democracy machine ride again.

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrJvVAWRe_4&w=640&h=390]

    Take care of yourselves and each other!

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