Members of the BU household attended the Barbados Labour Party (BLP) meeting last night at Heroes Square. BU will provide a more detailed comment later. What can be stated is when all the huff and puff was done it must be said Mia Mottley did a good job prosecuting Minister Michael Lashley. Many questions were asked of Minister Lashley last night regarding the contract with JADA covering Coverley. The Leader of the Opposition distributed copies of National Housing Corporation minutes (the same minutes quoted from by Lashley in the House) which supports a good case the Minister Lashley lied while standing on the floor of the House of Assembly at its last sitting. He has also been asked to produce the construction contract referred to by sacked NHC Chairman Marilyn Rice-Bowen.
The other issues worth mentioning is the revelation by former Minister of Health Jerome Walcott that a decision was made by government last Tuesday to refurbish the QEH and jettison plans to build a new hospital. Former Prime Minister Owen Arthur remarked on how the OECS countries have placed CLICO under judicial management and have taken steps to prosecute parties to recover CLICO assets and also to protect CLICO property. He lamented the fact that Barbados has done nothing to date to protect CLICO policyholders.
Hopefully others who attended will fill the gaps.
National Housing Corporation Minutes at the centre of the debate – Pages: 1,2,3 and 4
110 responses to “Leader Of The Opposition Calls For The Resignation Of Minister of Housing Michael Lashley”
It is in fact evidence that there was a contract…a financing contract between Clico Finance and NHC to finance the construction…The construction itself would have its own written contract…this we have not seen!
A financing contract is not a construction contract. Also that document looks like an indicative terms letter that spells out what will be offered. The wherefores and hereinafters ar enot seen, so somehting else would hav eot follow this. But small pint.
The point is as was indicated by a caller on Brass Tacks that if you brrow money from money form say 1st Caribbena it doe snot conver a cnostruction contract with a thrid party. If Clico Insurance General is loaning money, it certainly is not building, so the ginatory to the document on behalf of Clico Insuranc eGeneral unless he signs another position as th erperesnetative for Cliclo Property Development Ltd of necessity excludes the building compnay for any responsibility ofr the contract. Dale Marshall explaine dthis more eloquently on the Brass Tacks programme.
But one now understands having heard that Lashey has retained Gollop’s legal services, why Hal Gollop appears to suggest that a financing contract that does not mention the specifications for building or the details would be considered sufficient to be binding as a finance, construction, landscaping, plumbing and everyother thing. In all my days never heard that, but I am not a lawyer.
All I know is that while people can have casual arrangements, word of mouth, presumed contracts, gov’t cannot operate in that fashion. It is improper and proper cnotracts with detials are required to sort out liability and responsibilities especially when trouble occurs. I think it is lame for Daivd Ellis to be saying though that there were other projects with contracts and they went badly. Never in my life have I known contracts to execute themselves or are guarantees of performance or no trouble. What they guarantee is if there is non- performance and issues, then liability and responsibility can be ascertained by examining its clauses.
The charge made my Arthur that 12 million dollars paid to design a marina is wasted because a new contract has been issued. This has to be a lie?
At approximately 12:58pm, David Ellis, speaking on today’s edition of “Down-to-Brass-Tacks”, said that he have in his possession information that suggests that there is NO BUILDING CONTRACT between NHC and CLICO, and what was published in the today’s Daily Nation is indeed a finance contract. The building contract is in the process of being drawn up, and will be available in a few months. Mr. Ellis also confirmed that Minister Lashley himself has admitted that there is no building contract.
The Coverly houses are cheaply constructed (precast mass construction) with a few “pretty finishes” that really add no utility to the houses – example a garage door, and a paving stone lined driveway. The roof is standard pine rafters with T111 and asphalt shingles (why not the more durable and hurricane resistant permaclad sheeting?). My main criticism of this project is that one is spending over $300 000 for 814 sq ft of living area, little surrounding land and no possibility of making additions to the home. The same sized house with the same floor plan layout, on more land but out of wood can be purchased for $180 000 from the same NHC. Like the $200 shirts for sale in Cave Shepherd where one is paying for the brand name, the DLP has brought the same marketing concept to housing.
DAVID
“What is also evident except to the politician hacks is the poor PR from Lashley”
I think that Minister Lashley has defended himself rather well. I don’t think that he has anything more to say.
All Minister Lashley has to do from here in is to continue the fine job that he is doing and to continue being the big embarrassment to the Barbados Labour Party.
What he has done in a short space of time the Barbados Labour Party could not achieve in fourteen long years.
BT, you need to read the terms of what the Nation has published. The terms of the agreement follow.
@David
Why would there be a construction contract between the NHC and CLICO? Was CLICO actually constructing something or only financing it? Why would you expect a contract between NHC and CLICO to be a contruction type contract? Would not a MOU between JADA and NHC overseen by the financier (CLICO) meet the expectation of a contruction contract?
David using the Kelly argument. Hahahahah. And I used to think he was a fella with some sense. I guess he might be overcompensating.
Update my layman understanding of this issue
-Mrs Rice Bowen said there was no contract between NHC and CLICO. She did not specify what kind of contract
-Mr Lashley said there was a contract
-Mrs Rice Bowen said to Mr. Lashley “Bring proof”
-Lashley produce a document that he and a Lawyer defined as a contract, a Financial CONTRACT
– Some Party Hacks are saying the “Financial contract” is but a “Financial Terms” document
-Other Party Hacks are saying it is a Financial Contract not a contruction contract
-Mrs Rice Bowen never said what Kind of Contract she was referring too.
Questions:
Is CLICO a construction company? What kind of company is it and what kind of contracts would you expect it to offer as legally binding to whatever services and or products it markets and sells?
@Adrian
CIG lent the money to the NHC.
CLICOPROMAN a CLICO subsidiary was contracted to build the houses.
Terence Thornhill a Director of CIG signed on behalf of CIG. The document based on the BLP position is the document does not express the interest of CLICOPROMAN.
Given CLICO’s financial issues …
Ok let me start over again.
So when Mrs. Rice Bowen refers to CLICO and contract she is refering to CLIOPROMAN????? If so the document in the nationnews is beig paraded as a CLICO/CLICOPROMAN document or a CIG document? What does CIG stand for?
@Adrian
Perhaps a subtle point the BLP side is making is the specific charge by Rice-Bowen referenced a construction contract. Her concern was mirrored in the NHC Board minutes of 30 June 2010 by other Board members. For Lashley to say there was a contract against this background some say is dishonest on his part.
Will update the Board minutes as systems allow.
The doc in the Nation is the financing contract between Clico Insurance General (CIG) and NHC. Bowen’s beef is the absence of a construction contract. Naturally CLICO Property Management (CLICOPROMAN) would have to be signatory to any construction contract as the contractor identified in the Financing contract.
With all that I am reading and hearing, from connecting the points in a logical manner, for acting as a reasonable person would, it is extremely difficult to understand the levels of treachery that exist among the DEMS. That Board, in all fairness ought to have tendered their resignations; maybe not in support of the Chairman, but certainly on the principle that they participated in and shared similar sentiments that she has since made public. If my brother was on that Board and did not resign, I would have to challenges his sense of ethics and fair play not to mention his declining integrity.
Now the CCCs and HHs of this world know not what fairness or equity suggests. I am telling Barbadians from all political sides and from all walks of life, do not let this matter be swept aside; the governance and integrity of Barbados must stand tall even if tall politicians make themselves midgets or should I rather say lilliputians?
I believe the Opposition is doing what any good opposition ought to do; I am less sure the Government is responding in the timely and accountable and transparent manner that were parts of a mandate to treat to matters of public concern.
@ David
The document published in the Nation today cannot even be considered a finance contract, but simply a an offer to provide financing in the form of a term sheet. In a finance contract one would expect to see details including rate of interest, repayment period, security to be provided, repayment amount etc.etc. So we can’t even say that there was a finance contract, let alone a construction contract. But the fact of the matter is that Mr Lashley deliberately set out to deceive the public in parliament last week.
@George
Do you believe what you just wrote?
Lashley from where we sit can only be accused of wanting to cut through the bureaucratic bullshit. Bear in mind these PPP had the oversight/backing of a cabinet sub-committee.
@Common Sense,
Are you suggesting that a term sheet would not have “rate of interest, repayment period, security to be provided, repayment amount etc,etc”?
Owen trick Mia again
“BEES NEED TO BE STRAIGHT ON HOUSING”
by Bob Verdun
Part 3
“In this case, the builder-developers are taking a big risk, because they must find 1,000 free-market purchasers(with salaries in the range of civil servants) who are willing to buy a home that is closer to the neighbours than has been traditional.
Marketing costs alone are significant, and that is a cost that never applies to subsidised homes with long waiting lists.
If they are wrong, Mr. B.B and his associates will have to cut their prices and maybe even take a loss.
Minister of Housing Michael Lashley and the NHC are doing excellent work on many fronts with subsidised housing, but this is an option that doesn’t strain the Public Treasury.
I hope its a great success.”
BOB VERDUN
Final part of the letter.
This letter should be required reading for all Barbados Labour Party members and their supporters. They must read it with a bottle of Pepto Bismol in hand.
One thing I must say on Mia’s behalf, she fighting hard not to be replaced by Owen. I don’t think that she is being successful. It will all be in vain for her. Poor thing.
David, please do not make yourself look stupid. The document shown in the newspaper this morning is a document that simply outlines the terms and conditions of the financing arrangement. It comes before the actual finance contract.
I am satisfied that Lashley has been hurt badly on this scandal. The DLP has been made a victim of its own rhetoric. In fact Barbadians are now seeing where corruption really lies.
all the BLP yard fowls catching at straws continue the good work ,that meeting last was a waste of time and could not attract a decent bajans have better things to than to listen few power hungry people who are finding it hard to come to terms with life in the opposition
continue the good work mr. lashley and don’t be side track by the BLP yard fowls
Mr Lashley lied but omission. On the floor of the house he said that he had a signed contract knowing full well that we would conclude that it was the construction contract. Then today on Brass Tracks Mr Ellis stated that he was in contact with Mr Lashley and he indicated that a building contract is being worked on. Further information gleemed from that minutes as at June 30 2010 would imply that the Board was of the same opinion as Mrs Rice-Bowen so why try to made her look like a liar.
Just watching
I heard the same feeble arguments now being pushed by Adrian and Carson when the clico issue first broke. Today the facts are lying before eyes for all to see. Between the DLP and Clico has resulted is the collapse of this once “black hope” of business.
I want Barbadians to brace themselves for even more damaging information on this matter. This is only the tip of the iceberg.
@RR
Royalrumble | August 23, 2010 at 4:08 PM | David, please do not make yourself look stupid. The document shown in the newspaper this morning is a document that simply outlines the terms and conditions of the financing arrangement. It comes before the actual finance contract.
==========================================
So RR, could it be considered a Financial MOU, a memorandum Of Understanding?
What is unfolding in this scenario is what is termed the special-interest group effect. In addition to benefit-cost errors from majority voting, special-interest groups can create government support for programs with costs outweighing their benefits. Hence, it is evident that the special-interest effect occurs when a government approves programs that benefit only a small (or selected) group within the society, but the cost is distributed among the entire society. It is therefore obvious that the influence of special interest groups is indeed a constant problem for effective governance, because there are enormous benefits to be gained by these small groups as a result of government programs. Because of the size of these benefits, these groups can well afford to donate significant sums of money to the re-election campaigns of the political parties. Having received these financial incentives, politicians must engage in the political practice of logrolling.
If we put the above jargon in perspective, in this case we can identify CLICO and JADA as the special-interest groups. It is a known fact that CLICO is a financial contributor to this DLP administration. A further examination of all the facts would suggest that there has been significant manipulation of the legislative and contract awarding procedures in an effort to satisfy these groups. This type of behaviour has been exhibited by both political parties, and has drawn strong defence from their supporters. These types of actions are fundamentally wrong, and what we should be aware of is that while the politicians and these groups achieve large financial benefits, the taxpayer is who has to bear the costs.
In January 2008 we voted for change, I am sure not many of us wanted this TYPE of change. Changing one set of dishonest persons who took 14 years to do their damage for another set that took 2 years to do their damage.
A word to the wise is enough.
Mia Mottley will get one term as Leader of the Opposition, then it will be over to Owen for the other terms as Leader of the Opposition.
CCC that is wishful thinking, try as you may you cannot even convince yourself that this bunch of jokers, dont-know-what -doers will survive at the next poll.
The way how the leader of the opposition distorts the truth I would have a hard time believe any information that she dropped last night at that meeting. If she was reading from Board minutes she would have to copy those minutes and circulate it. Even then I would not believe a word that she said. She has a habit of distorting information and reporting information out of context to deliberately mislead you.
Now if she had such damaging information why didn’t she use the appropriate channel to put a strong case against the minister of housing. I am sure that way she would get more political mileage. When will she stop putting up smoke screens. Does the leader of the opposition think that Barbadians don’t have any sense.
I was told that she barked and barked in Hero’s square last night for the few BLP die-hards who had a thrist for a piece of fictitious work.
Every body knows that the real problem that the opposition has with the Minister of Housing is the fact that he is working hard to deliver housing solution. If left untouched, he may actually house every last person as he set out to do.
To show that the NHC has resumed work after being idle and deliquent for 14 years under the BLP administration. A few weeks ago I received a call asking if I was still interested in a housing solution. I had submitted my application in 2004 when Liz used birds of various feathers to tickle my fancy about the possibility of owning a house on this rock. Well, between 2004 and that call last week was the first acknowledgement that I received from NHC.
If the leader of the opposition has a problem with a minister gettting his ministry to work. Well as far as I am concerned she should not even be leading the opposition and she is definitely not fit to lead the country either.
All of this talk about contract is just to distract from the fact that houses are being built in Barbados at a rate and pace that is too quick and hot for the opposition to handle. These houses are going to the average Barbadian.
What Mia should show is the BLP’s sterling record of having these so called contracts in place. Give us a BLP model to follow. Let me see what the BLP contract looked like. Let me see the contracts which were in place for similar projects undertaken by the BLP.
Time that Mottley stops using CLICO as a political football. that is the only reason why this issue is being kicked around in the public domain. Trust me, Mottley’s utterances have caused the demise of CLICO and has placed Barbadian jobs in jeopardy. She is madden by her constant quest for power.
The more Lashley talk the more deeper he digs his political grave. I am told he has now admitted that a building contract is now being drafted.
Paid a visit of discovery to The Villages at COVERLEY this morning. Couldn’t actually get into the village because of construction security, but one can get a good view from the perimeters. Boy that’s really a new concept to Barbados. Really expensive houses that don’t look too expensive, but packed tightly, so that if you sneeze in your house, you might very well send your virus to the neighbour’s. I have seen close-housing neighbourhoods before here, but not for that high-priced housing. That likeness of a packed slave ship I saw lastnight on the big screen, I can now certify is a true likeness of the house lay-out in The Villages.
One could easily come home a night inebriated, and cause a disturbance by going to the wrong house.
That covenant about no noises between 10.00 p.m. and daybreak is understandable. Those houses are so close that husbands and wives who get a little noisy with their percolations just really might find themselves in trouble with covenant violations. Shuhhhhhhhhh!
Apart from those observations, things maybe alright, but I don’t know boy.
nothing that MIA and her goons have prophesy has come to pass ,unemployment has reaching 20%,not happen ,no confidence motion against the government ,fail ,striving hard for clico to be put under judicial management so that hundreds of workers could be sent home ,another failure ,the economy was suppose to collapse two years ago has not happen ,the goverment is still battling strong and considering the challenging times they are coping quite ,Owen have to be smiling because it may seem like he is supporting her but he isn’t all he is doing is biding his time allowing her to continue to be the failure that she is before he make his move foolish lady
Here are the National Housing Corporation Minutes as promised
Page 1,2,3 and 4
David
I was a little confused when you said Mr. Lashley lied in parliament. Mr.Lashley said in parliament there was a contract. He did not say what kind of contract. Now Miss Bowen lied because she said she never signed any contract.
Lawyer politicians are very good at using legal language to say what they want to say.
PDC is absolutely correct when they say this is a hatch up plan to discredit the minister whom is seen as doing the most work. Like how the DLP worked on Mascoll with hardwood housing.
Indar weir is living a hopeless dream because he will lose so badly in St.Phillip north.
TheBLP wasted a lot of money advertising this meeting and I passed there and the crowd was disappointing for an opposition party who got so many votes.
I think Owen Arthur is laughing again because Mia failed again.
Alex,
What appropriate channels are you talking about that Ms Mottley should use? She can’t speak freely in Parliament. When she isn’t being unfairly thrown out, there is an under- ruler there who says, green verbs and all, “I SPEAKS AND I RULES FROM THIS CHAIR. WHEN I AM IN CHARGE, YOU CAN’T CAST ASPIRATIONS (aspersions?)ON PEOPLE’S CHARACTER ”
She can’t get on CBC DLP TV…….can’t even purchase time. What a crying shame that MRS.RAM can purchase ALL the primetime TV she wants at CBC DLP TV, and our own P.M in waiting can’t even purchase 5 minutes from the people’s station paid for by us, the taxpayers.
Adrian Wrote: So RR, could it be considered a Financial MOU, a memorandum Of Understanding?
MOUs are acceptable in court and is considered aa good as a contract. However, a financial contract only speaks to the terms governing the execution of the financing and cannot bind the third party (the contractor) in the event of a legal charge on the defect or any other problem arising out of the construction of the house.
Note that Hal Gollop was clear to say that only if the financial contract includes matters of a technical nature in construction of the will the contract be goo d to go but that is not the case here. This financial DOES NOT include the execution of the technical aspects that is found in the construction contract.
QUESTION: The project at Constant as been stalled for the last nine months. DOES this finance contract being brandished Lashley determines who will settle the cost for theses overruns? If If a defect is seen in one of these houses soon after it is given to the owner who is reliable for the remedial work? Does this finance contract speaks to this? Indeed why would finance company draft a contract to cover the relationship between its customer and their contractor?
@Fair Play
It is obvious Minister Lashley in response to Rice-Bowen’s claim that she had failed to encourage him to have a construction contract in place, a reasonable expectation was for him to address her charge directly. He instead engaged in a semantic move.
Fair Play, live up to your name man. Don’t start that lie about a poor crowd. You obviously were NOT at the same meeting as I was in Heroe’s Square last night. That was a large crowd by out-of-election time standards, and I am sure it was much much much larger than the Dem’s conference. People packed in the square, and the Board Walk was nearly full.
You ARROGANT DEMS seem to have forgotten that the worst defeat in Barbadian electoral politics was meted out to you when the people of Barbados gave you only two seats…….The present Hon. P.M, and Kellie. Don’t think it can’t happen again.
Anonymous
Would you say that this is an issue that would bring down a government or ask a minister to resign? The people of Barbados are seeing houses being constructed that were not being constructed before by the NHC. Be honest and say that this Minister has done a good job. If he is found to be corrupt then what legislation do we have in place to prove it? If there was legislation, it looks like a lot of the last government would have had a lot to answer for.
Now I am one of the persons calling to have integrity legislation and freedom of information legislation to be put in place because I would like to see greedy and unscrupulous politicians from both sides put in Dodds prison like it is done in the US.
I don’t care if the BLP meeting had ten people what was important was the mounting of evidence and information distributed that showed that this DLP Government is corrupt. That is what is important. If ten people were at the meeting then clearly the content of the meeting spread like a wild fire because the amount of persons I heard on the streets today talking about the housing scandal now run into the thousands. So clearly the small crowd, according to the DLP has been talking to a lot of other people and is what makes the difference.
In a report published on October 11th, 2007 the IMF lauded Barbados for having a number of good practices on fiscal transparency.
The IMF pointed to positive things the Government of the day (BLP) was doing to create an atmosphere of transparency in our governance. Among them was the establishment of a code of ethics for the public service that met the UN International Code of Conduct for public officials.
I wonder what would they say now amidst all this controversy?
I am reliably inform that the Dems are preparing to pay a contractor to come to the public to lie and say that this contractor paid Rice-Bowen a kick-back on a project. So Barbadians can look out for this.
@Royalrumble
Your credibility is rapidly dissipating. You wrote the following:
How were you able judge the number?
How people that preach good governance and integrity could support this fiasco is beyond me. An entity that can’t pay people their own MONEY can somehow lend to the government who then hires two subsidiaries of the same lender to carry out construction work. So CLICO is repaid $40 million plus interests and also collects the hog share of the $40 million paid by NHC in contracts.
Government owns land and sells it to a developer @ $3.00 sq ft who then builds a village of ‘pied-a-terres’, furnishes each and makes a killing. How about Courts and all the other local retailers?
Why did they not simply put in the sites and services and then sell the lots to prospective home owners at the same $3 plus the cost of the infrastructure works? Jada has basically applied its condominium method to Coverley, which is inappropriate for single lot housing. Pray tell who will get the contract to operate the garbage collection? Another CLICO or Jada subsidiary?
@ Carson Cadogan
Bob Verdun is clueless, one should really not reference his diatribe for supporting one’s argument.
@ David
‘Lashley from where we sit can only be accused of wanting to cut through the bureaucratic bullshit. Bear in mind these PPP had the oversight/backing of a cabinet sub-committee.’
The ABC flyover project had the backing of whom and was it also an attempt to ‘cut through the bureaucratic bullshit’?
@Enuff
You are comparing the urgency of finding housing solutions to that of planting flyovers?
@David
Yes Sir! I believe in exactly what I wrote earlier. I presume the George you referred to was me and hence you would not enter a strategy recently used that may cause stirs of deception to enter only due to practices of semantic dexterity.
Okay David, seriously, there are lessons to be learnt.
@ David
Firstly, transportation planning inclusive of addressing congestion is part of solving the housing issue!!! For example, isn’t close proximity to the same ABC highway being promoted as a selling point for Coverley? What transportation routes will the new residents of Coverley use to get to work and how will they contribute to the existing chaos?
Secondly, alleviating traffic congestion is as important as finding housing solutions. You speak as if the housing being provided is reducing homelessness, it is merely increasing home ownership.
Long waiting lists for government provided/assisted housing is not endemic Barbados. Bypassing law, procedures and protocol for expediency is no excuse, especially when the end result is not a sound approach to addressing the issue. Building houses alone is not the solution.