Dismantling The Barbados Tax Model

Submitted by the People’s Democratic Congress (PDC)

This week’s PDC contribution deals with another set of reasons why there must be large-scale lawful political opposition and street protests in Barbados in the foreseeable future by the relevant masses and middle classes of people, and by the relevant businesses and other entities and their respective supporters,  against the government’s continued wholesale stealing and robbing of countless portions of their incomes (TAXATION) in evil violation of the Holy Biblical Eighth Commandment, and in  diabolical transgression of the  income and property rights of such people, businesses and other entities in this fair land.

So, as it stands therefore, there is enough wisdom and knowledge out here in Barbados and across the internet right now to indicate that the government knows exactly that what it is doing IS  TOTALLY  WRONG  AND ABOMINABLE  in terms of its unrighteous TAXING of the relevant portions of the incomes of the relevant people, businesses and many other entities in Barbados (or otherwise THE  STEALING FROM/THE  ROBBING  OF the relevant portions of the general income of the relevant people, businesses and many other entities in this country).

Too, the government must know that TAXATION has long had very severe, profound, and disabling social, political, psychological, material, financial and other effects on esp. the broad masses and middle classes of people in this country, and on the proper growth and development of the country as a whole.

Moreover, the PDC has – since its coming into existence in 2005 – been putting forward so far very compelling evidence to those persons constituting the general citizenry of Barbados of the fact that the circumstances of these very ravishing degrading dehumanizing effects are undoubtedly so.

And, we have also been putting forward rational alternative strategies to support this very important and necessary  NO-TAXATION paradigm that we have been advancing for the benefit of this country and its people.  And we will not stop doing both of these sets of things  until we are satisfied that the Barbados citizenry esp. has had enough wisdom and understanding about this evil TAXATION system – enough to inform those particular mass protests and rallies against this naked  brute unconstitutionalism – which we have invariably pledged to Abolish whenever we become the government of this country.

Significantly, these backward DLP/BLP Governments and their so-called economic advisors have for ages known too that TAXATION DISGUSTINGLY REDUCES the money value/the essential  worth of all commercial goods and services that are produced and distributed in this country yearly on account of on account of they being subjected to TAXATION –  which therefore means that the more TAXATION that is imposed by government on national output, the less value such is to the buyers and sellers of such output.  So, by helping to create such conditions for the DEVALUATION of such goods and services, it means then these dastard  DLP/BLP Governments would have been from time to time wilfully deliberately depriving the wider population in Barbados of the use of greater amounts of goods and services for their own further survival, nourishment and development.

As well, these wicked DLP/BLP Governments know too that – at the same time that TAXATION is DISGUSTINGLY REDUCING the money /value/the essential worth of all commercial goods and services in the market system – it is also serving to DRASTICALLY REDUCE the incomes that accrue to business owners, investors, workers, etc. from the sale or purchase – or rent or lease – in which ever cases of these particular uses – of those commercial goods and services ( imports/exports included) on a daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly basis.

So, too by helping to create conditions for the substantial DIMINUTION/DEVALUATION of those incomes, it means then that these said wretched DLP/BLP governments would have been over the years intentionally recklessly dispossessing such persons of what is rightfully theirs – their income due from the sale or purchase – or rent or lease – of such goods and services in the country and beyond, and which is income that is also necessary to help them further grow and develop in this man-made political economic financial world.

The fact that at this point in time there is a very devastating political economic depression ongoing in this country – and which speaks to the substantial deprivation of usage of greater commercial  goods and services by the population in the country, and to the great loss of income by the said populace, and to other resultant correlative negative effects on the vast majority of the population in Barbados, does logically mean that TAXATION has overwhelmingly helped to bring about this depression in this country.

The fact that this Thompson led DLP Government imposed substantially more TAXATION on the backs of the people of this country in July 2008, and have since that time kept them in place, does show one of the primary reasons why Barbados continues to be in these seemingly unending material and financial doldrums. Thus, it is totally erroneous and fallacious for any one to state that this depression has principally come about  because of any decline in FDI or declines in export earnings, etc..

Nevertheless, the absolute obverse of continuing to have this THEIVING ROBBING TAXATION SYSTEM, and of increasing any of those so-called TAX RATES at any time in this country, will imply the TOTAL ABSOLUTE DISPENSING WITH SUCH A SYSTEM and THOSE RATES, and will also mean that – with the systematic removal of this TAXATION SYSTEM and those TAXES, there will be far less likelihood of recessions and depressions coming about in this country.

Furthermore, we in this party must say again on here that there certainly  lies greater hope and salvation for the people of this country and the country itself in the achievement of sustained real annual growth rates in the region of 8 – 10% in the country, and in the ushering in of unprecedented greater levels of real national expenditures, consumption, investment, output, income,real savings, etc., in Barbados, with the ABOLITION of TAXATION, and the ABOLITION of things like INTEREST RATES,   INSTITUTIONAL  REPAYABLE PRODUCTIVE  LOANS,  MOTOR  VEHICLE  INSURANCE, etc. and – in their places – the right and properly functioning sub/systems –  than with the people continuing to experience greater pain, misery and suffering for themselves with the episodic achievement of meagre measly rates of real growth, in the region of 2 – 3 %, on an expected basis, in this country, and with their also having to experience the mal effects of serious long term  stagnation, decline and decay in too many  areas of the material productive and distributive and financial sectors of this country, with the CONTINUED EXISTENCE OF SUCH A TAXATION SYSTEM.

That is why we here now say, too, that a future PDC government will create and thereafter maintain a system – the People’s Money Value System – that itself will include the TOTAL MONEY STOCK/SUPPLY of the country, and will include the National Non-Repayable Productive Loans Scheme – that will make sure that those commercial goods and services that are provided to the public/the country for the public’s/ the country’s benefit by private individual or business establishments in this country, and which will be duly provided  in regard of the meeting of the needs for the provisioning of social/social welfare/security/ physical infrastructures and facilities and services to the public/in the country, WILL  – OF COURSE –  BE  PROPERLY  DIRECTLY  FUNDED OUT OF SUCH A SYSTEM FOR THE BENEFIT OF THOSE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF SUCH GOODS AND SERVICES, AND FOR THEIR HAVING PROPERLY LEGALLY DONE SO.

Finally,  by our having put forward this immediately above  strategy that will support this no-TAXATION paradigm, the PDC  assures the citizens of Barbados that this is yet another piece of material that can be used by the  VICTIMS of this TAXATION SYSTEM ( What tax payers what!!), against the Government of Barbados to illustrate that in any  large-scale lawful political opposition and street protests in Barbados in the foreseeable future,  there are so many ways and means through which the government can earn far more of its own income esp. using its own resources, assets, personnel, etc., within the context of the market system, but that where  instead of attempting to do so/doing so, and that where it remains entirely possible or it to continue TAXING, it will yet still seek to fascistly criminally totalitarianistically use  TAXATION to also wilfully destroy and disfigure so many of the life chances, the productive capacities of many thousands upon thousands of the broad masses and middle classes of this country, while also directly and indirectly helping to corruptly line the pockets of themselves and some of their friends, families etc. – which, therefore, are situations that are altogether so vulgar, so obscene that they must – with a little Divine political inspiration – constitute sufficient bases upon which the inauguration of such political opposition and street protests rallies must be eventually had against the Government of Barbados.

WE OBLIGE.

37 comments

  • May I please get some of what they are smoking?

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  • Oh yes they forgot the most important part of all…Abolish government!

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  • @Wuhloss who wrote:
    May I please get some of what they are smoking?
    ==========================================
    Ha ha ha ha ha…I want some too.

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  • Come on PDC, let’s get serious. We must instill a sense of responsibility in not only ourselves but also our children.

    If we would simply stop wasting and misappropriating the funds available to Governments both past and present we could achieve so much more. We cannot run from the problems, we have to solve them.

    When you look at Greenland and the money we wasted there, even as a tax payer in Barbados I would have had no problem buying land with the capital invested on that project and giving it to those that need house spots. I would have been happier seeing someone getting something rather than having nothing to show.

    The money we are wasting we can inturn put into loan banks at reasonable rates and repayment terms while giving Barbadians ownership on this rock. Ownership in turn gives a person incentive for advancement. That is what Barbados needs.

    I use to make fun at the now Prime Minister Thompson and his family first campaign some years back. Prime Minister Thompson was 10 steps ahead. Piss off with the politics and let us all act responsibly and embed that in those that come after us.

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  • These guys are morons, and BU is not much better by posting their lunacy. Along with abolishing taxes here is a short list of things we would also need to abolish:
    – the hospital
    – roads
    – public schools
    – garbage collection
    – police

    Come on people, get real.

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  • @X

    Why are we inclined to be so intolerant of other views. Challenged the PDC view on no taxes. Let all views contend whether you believe them to be ignorant or not.

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  • @PDC,

    You used most of the article to state repeatedly that taxes are bad, without explaining why, and without explaining (clearly and succintly) your alternative to taxes.

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  • @David: “Let all views contend whether you believe them to be ignorant or not.

    A very important point.

    If you disagree with someone, debate the points — show the errors in the assumptions and/or the proofs.

    Don’t attack the individual.

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  • I think that over the last five years their view has been given ample time on just about every public platform; from the Nation and Advocate to BFP and yourself.

    By continuing to give them publicity without asking them how the hell their ridiculous proposal can be reconciled to the realities of public infrastructure and services, you are doing a disservice to your readers.

    I am very tolerant of other views – I am intolerant of ignorance, both theirs and, seemingly, surprisingly, yours.

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  • @X: “I think that over the last five years their view has been given ample time on just about every public platform; from the Nation and Advocate to BFP and [BU].

    I think you might be confusing the PEP and the PDC.

    Hey — confusion happens….

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  • No Chris, I am not confusing them. I have seen this drivel from them since 2006 when I returned to Barbados, in ridiculous letters to the editor of the papers, in comments on blogs and here again as a BU blog. My first interaction with them was in Bridgetown where they were distributing their “manifesto” – I have never seen a bigger waste of paper. So it’s more like 4 years. But I assure you I know exactly of whom I speak.

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  • Yuh never know who following dem Boysie! All stale bread got it cheese! Doan doubt!

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  • @X: “No Chris, I am not confusing them. I have seen this drivel from them since 2006 when I returned to Barbados, in ridiculous letters to the editor of the papers, in comments on blogs and here again as a BU blog.

    My sincere apologies. You know of what you speak.

    I agree that the PDC have little chance of winning even a single seat here in Barbados — or any hopes of their delusions of becoming a ruling party.

    But is it not better that they waste electrons, rather than atoms, communicating their misguided message to the electorate who will judge them?

    Somewhat separately, is it not rather sad that Barbados does not currently have a viable third party ready for the next election?

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  • “If” Barbados needs a third political party, that third party will have to be different to those that now exist. That difference will be best addressed if the Party is given birth from a different womb. It might be that womb is not blessed with riches of gold and fine rainment lined, but it is possible that it is that fine rainment and gold which are the reasons for the problems that now exist.

    He who dares to stand to face the slings and arrows; deserves some credit for daring to stand; while others pass on the other side.

    It is the man who first stands “alone”that give comfort for a crowd to assemble.

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  • I hesitate to respond because it gives credence where none is due. However, here is one part of why everyone knows in their head and heart that PDC are wasting our time with their solutions, (though I sometimes like their critiques).

    1. Not all taxes are bad.

    “Pigou Taxes” are those taxes we pay to help ensure that private incentives are better matched with social outcomes. For example, we tax “bads” like pollution from cars that create social problems like congestion, cancers, etc, and use the revenues to subsidise “goods” like public education and health that produce social benefits.

    “Progressive taxes”: The private economy works well if the starting point is one of greater equality. In an unequal world, taxes can be used to help redress the balance by taxing the rich more than the poor or using tax revenues to support the less advantaged or more vulnerable. Wealth taxes are particularly progressive and I am a big fan of these and land taxes.

    2. There are 192 countries in the world. Do you think that if this was a good idea that it would not have been tried somewhere in the world? Communist China and Russia used to have something similar, but they found the no taxation, state provides everything lark did not work. Shame, but while we can admire the chutzpa of the Cubans in sticking it to the Americans, there is a reason why so many sons and daughters of the revolution risk their lives to escape a country they are not granted exit visas from.

    3. If one can make any sense of the PDC idea it is the idea of “seigniorage”. This is the benefit to a country of issuing all of the bank notes, which are effectively IOUs by the central bank. To the novice in monetary economics this seems tremendously powerful, but the problem is that people don’t use currency notes and coins very much, they use inter-bank transfers of credit. You don’t buy a house with notes and coins, but with a cheque and bank transfers. Studies of seignorage around the world suggest its value is around 1-2% of GDP at best and more likely to be 0.5%. How is that going to pay for public services in Barbados that currently account for around 33% of GDP?

    Many taxes are bad and inefficient. Some taxes are good and incentivise us to consider social outcomes as well as private outcomes. PDC have not found the answer to what you do without taxes. The currency idea is worth peanuts compared with the actual costs of delivering public services. I feel we could be far more efficient at delivering public services, but maybe we can cut it back by 10%, or even 20%, but we can’t cut it by 90%.

    These ideas are so silly and ignorant that it would be highly dangerous to throw PDC anywhere near the seat of power, so while I thank PDC for their constant refrain of “down with all political parties”, when it comes to their solutions, no thank you and good bye.

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  • @PDC.
    No More Taxes”That is a cliche that I have heard talk about from differing Indepent parties not only here in Barbados. Until you can give a more substantial explanation no one would listen. So No more Taxes then who pay the bills. Do you understand how much MONEY it takes to run a Country. Puddin &Souse alone can’t do it! Anyhow if you can convince me of the alternative i will listen !

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  • The PDC is delsuional at best if you ask me .

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  • Even countries around the world that are considered tax havens or low tax country still use some form of taxation to generate revenue. Oil producing countries that generates 80-90% of their government revenue through royalty taxes and levies can afford to operate in a low tax environment. In Brunei there is no income tax and heath care and education is free. The Government generates a lot of revenue through oil raylaties and the rest they make-up by charging high fees on import, permits and licenses. Countries that have no income taxes and corporate taxes ( tax havens) usually made up the shortage by having a high Vat tax ( sale tax), charge a lot for permits, imports, and license fees. They might also sells citizenship and government land for big bucks to wealthy investors.

    The Cayman Island government gets most of its revenue through work permits and import duties.Trinidad is Oil rich so the government subsidised propety tax . The Gas and oil royalities represents around 70% of the government revenue in T&T. All other countries that are resource challenged, their government have to resort to all type of taxation scheme ( progressive and regressive) to pay the bills. Barbados is no exception. I personally feel their need to be a comprehensive tax reform in Barbados because there are too many individuals and companies not paying their fair share. In some countries whenever the potential tax base and the actual tax collection is at a large variance the government likes to use the “darling” of all tax collection method ( VAT/ Sales tax) to “capture” more people in the net by increasing this tax especially. Any poor developing country with high taxes overall is a reflection of too many tax dodgers and evaders.

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  • Jeff Cumberbatch

    PDC,
    Why would you, in your abolition frenzy, include motor vehicle insurance? For instance, would you be willing to pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars in damages personally if you should injure someone in an accident?

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  • Micro Mock Engineer

    Jeff,

    Risks associated with motor vehicle accidents will be underwritten by the National Accidental Loss Compensation Fund of the People’s Money Value System… you haven’t been paying attention 🙂

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  • @PDC

    It should be obvious that despite your best effort to date you have failed to win over commenters to the position no taxation is viable.

    If it continues clearly it becomes a credibility issue.

    What are you going to do.

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  • Jeff Cumberbatch

    @MME,

    My bad!

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  • @Yardbroom | August 12, 2010 at 4:19 PM |

    from all the conversations i have seen here, you people can start a new political party. the time is ripe, we have seen the actions of the BLP for 14 years, now we are at the mercy of the DLP, who are raping us without due care. we really need new blood. no Goddards, Tulls, Motleys, Smiths, Arthurs, Brathwaites, Greaves, Barrows, Taitts Simmons etc. bring unknown names such as Frances, Beckles Lokeys, Holders. Draytons, Vickers, Huntes, Hinds etc. unknown families in Barbados that have lived among us for generations and never had the opportunity to let their voices be heard

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  • @PDC,

    I am impressed by the quality of the comments on your statement.

    The ball is in your court now – what is your alternative to taxation? Maybe the BU family can help you figure out how to make this thing work!!

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  • Ithink the poltical parties like PDC are not for abolishing Taxes but is for abolishing taxes that would benefit the poor and needy.In other words Welfare,but they cannot say so since they think it would be the end of their political journey. They need to be more specific maybe they would be surprised as to how many supporters the might have. What people need is to know the truth !NO MORE HIDDEN AGENDAS!PDC! it is time to tell the Truth!

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  • The PDC wishes to thank each and every one who has blogged so far under this thread – real names or not.

    We therefore wish to express gratitude to the following persons for their having contributed thus far to this thread – and as such we do proffer such gratitude in line with the order in which they first appeared – nevermind that some persons would have blogged again/again before some others would have made their first blogs – so we truly express our gratitude to Wuhloss, Atman, Capone, X, David, Brutus, Christopher Halsall, Yardbroom, Conrad, ac, Zion1971, Jeff Cumberbatch, Micro Mock Engineer, and Ms Anon.

    Sincerest thanks and appreciation to you all.

    Now, having said that, it would be remiss of us if we did not respond to/answer in kind to the comical stuff, the reassuring comments, the concerns, the questions etc. that have all been found among the gallimaufry of brambles, bushes and vines of expressions and suggestions in the underneath of the lead article, and which have come about as a result of there being thrown in there by each and every one of those commenters throughout yesterday – and on which bases we would have seen these blogs one by one, and would have analysed them as best as we can.

    So in carrying out our responsibilities to BU commenters and to visitors to BU generally, we here now begin to respond to/to answer to every one of them who has blogged so far under this thread.

    We shall deal with the easiest responses to the thread first, and then the easier ones, and then the easy ones.

    So, here we go.

    —————————————————————————————-
    X,

    It is clear that – in your remarks – you do not know enough about the PDC and its NO-TAXATION paradigm. You said “I have never seen a bigger waste of paper.” – meaning some Manifesto that lies only in the darkest corners of your imagination. Well, never have we published and given out a book Manifesto. Indeed, we did have a 2006 Pre-Election Manifesto – which was entirely published and distributed to the public in CD form, and a 2008 Manifesto in book form. It is clear you wish a personal vitroilic battle with us. But, again, you have the wrong ideas about who we are dealing. Our major mission on here with regard to the substance of this thread is to little enlighten and inform as many people as possible in side and outside of Barbados concerning the evil, the wickedness and other negatives related to TAXATION, and to little educate and inform about the need for alternatives to it. So, therefore, we will NOT be sidetracked into the purgatory of verbalists. But, X, we do take it that you would have been looking since yesterday to find out if we would have just simply responded to you on here, for responding to you sake, until at this exact point in time when we would have done so, but which really for you is nothing to cheer about!!!

    Wuhloss and Atman,

    We think that you should take such TAXATION/NO-TAXATION subjects very seriously. Do some serious studying of the multifarious henious inhuman effects of TAXATION on our people, businesses, and others in this country and beyond – and try doing so away from the eurocentric indoctrination that has been systematically carried out on you both over the years.

    We must let you know too that there were also some people in Barbados who in the past on first hearing about this NO-TAXATION idea thought that it was foolishness, until they saw the light; now they do not believe that it is foolishness any longer. But, the choices are still yours to believe in this NO-TAXATION MODEL or not.

    Capone,

    Even though you did NOT address the essence of our thread, we must say to you that POLITICS is an all embracing social concept and activity. Politics is in the family, the school, the church, clubs, lodges, etc. It involves every living human being in Barbados. It is primarily the power and influence and authority variables that shape the wider Barbadian society, and many other important spheres in this society ( the so-called economy included). Also, it has been stated by many so-called political scientists and political analysts across the world, that Aristotle said that man is a political animal. So, politics cannot therefore be treated with the amount of levity or be so minisculized ( TO A POINT WHERE YOU REALLY DEFINE POLITICS AS THAT WHICH IS CONCERNED WITH THE ADVERSERIAL NATURE OF PARTISAN POLITICS) because you yourself desire to feignedly impress such upon many fellow comenters on here. It is ironic still that you mentioned David Thompson’s emphasis on the family some years ago; for, it is in the family and in the family setting where much politics and political sociology are demonstrated.

    We however greatly respect your views about ownership of our “own””lands, houses, etc. as a means of what, fundamentally – EMPOWERING, ENFRANCHISING – Barbadian people.

    ac,

    If you are the same ac that the PDC has previously on different occasions communicated with on here and elsewhere (BA) , we are convinced that you MAINLY WISH TO COMMUNICATE WITH US ON THIS SUBJECT. We mean no offence by saying such. For inspite of the TAXATION/NO-TAXATION information that we have provided to you on here and elsewhere, you are stuck in the rut. We are taken aback that you have not even started to convince yourself that there are alternatives to TAXATION.

    Christopher Halsall,

    You started well by supporting a point made earlier by David, by yourself saying that “if you disagree with someone, debate the points — show the errors in the assumptions and/or the proofs. Don’t attack the individual.”, but some how along the way, you showed your normal symptoms of intellectual fatigue – emotional exasperation too – with our continued purveying of this type of sound right reasoning and knowledge on this blog – which – we think – you continue to falsely think too can only be best purveyed by certain people in this country.

    Moreover, we are wary of the possibilities of your Animal Farm like behaviourial psychology – whereby in some parts of this monumental political text, Napolean pissed on and criticized some of the great plans of Snowball – who was at that time leader of Animal Farm. But so jealous and envious of Snowball and some of his animal attributes and leadership qualities, that he Napolean hatched a secret plan to get the rid of Snowball from the farm and to take over the leadership from him. So, the time did actually come when the nefarious Napolean – having driven Snowball from Animal Farm with some fierce dogs at his heals – started to destroy many of the things that Snowball and some others had set in place, and – in other cases – had built – like the Windmill – on the farm. Well, the full fledge irony of this whole situation though, in the story, was that Napolean – as leader himself – started to rebuild some of the same things that his predecessor had done – with slightly different reasons attached – and still – without shame – his having claimed that they were based on his own plans. So, Chris we are wary of your potential cunning in relationship to this NO-TAXATION MODEL!!!

    Zion1971,

    You suggest that in our promuglation of this NO-TAXATION paradigm and in our seeking to implement it, we are delusional.

    Well, we have some very deep suspicions that – nevermind the very reasonable logical thinker you are, you are saying so based primarily on your Christian outlook – which includes this “render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s, render unto God/Christ , that which is for God/Christ” philosophy.

    But, we are sure that you know that GOD never created TAXATION – and thus could NEVER HAVE WANTED THIS FOR THE HUMAN RACE GIVEN WHAT HE COMMANDED MOSES TO HAVE AS ONE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS: THE EIGHTH COMMANDMENT – THOU SHALL NOT STEAL – and which are TWO OF THE FUNDAMENTAL PREMISES UPON WHICH WE HAVE BEEN RELENTLESSLY ATTACKING THIS EVIL. Discussion closed though Zion1971 – KNOWING TOO THAT WE HAVE A VERY RIGID POLICY ON HERE TO ESCHEWETH RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION ON THE WHOLE.

    Jeff Cumberbatch,

    Sorry to see that you would have been misreading us in relationship to to what we have been proposing to replace Motor Vehicle Insurance in this country with. However, the point that was being made in the lead thread about the Abolition of Motor Vehicle Insurance has to do with other measures that will facilitate the greatest possible material growth and development in this country. So it is NOT just IMPLEMENTING NON- TAXATION income generating strategies that will assist the government and the people in doing so, but it is also other measures that will be part of the wider scheme of things.

    Strange, though, that you have not even said a word as to the substance of our NO-TAXATION paradigm!! Strange!! At least say two words.

    Micro Mock Engineer,

    Good to see that you corrected Jeff, Micro Mock Engineer.

    But like Jeff, NOT a single comment on this NO-TAXATION paradigm. Strange, too, huh!! Like we just urged Jeff to do, it would be good for you too say at least say a few words on it as well.

    Conrad,

    Good information for any of those who are on BU that possibly do not know about the British economist Pigou (1877 – 1959) and his ideas on TAXATION. And good information too on Progressive TAXES, and Seigniorage.

    But really and truly, those are the only reasons why we have not placed you at the bottom with X, Wuhloss, Atman, etc.

    But we could still do so, given that what you have provided in your blog is nothing more than something that is based on a complete regurgitation of what has been instilled in you over the years by many euro-centric sources of instruction and learning, or is nothing more than something that is based on the eurocentric indoctrination that you have been so shamelessly subjected to.

    You have brought forward absolutely NOTHING to counterpoint or disprove the fundamental propositions that we have put forward in the thread. NOTHING ABSOLUTELY. And we are NOT sure that you know this too.

    But unlike how we dealt with X, we have dished out that little personal vitriol for you, cause you must do better, Conrad. Really you must!!!

    Brutus,

    You said in your earlier August, 12, 2010, 1:52 pm blog, that “you (meaning we in the PDC) used most of the article to state repeatedly that taxes are bad, without explaining why, and without explaining (clearly and succintly) your alternative to taxes.”

    Brutus, simply properly read paragraphs 6 to 11, and you will see some reasons why TAXATION is BAD.

    By simply going back to many of our relevant posts that were previously made here on BU, under the relevant threads, you will indeed see those strategies that we have outlined that will support this NO-TAXATION paradigm.

    A check with the above thread, in the second last paragraph, does point out another strategy.

    David,

    We applaud you for earlier stating appropriately “why are we inclined to be so intolerant of other views. Challenged the PDC view on no taxes. Let all views contend whether you believe them to be ignorant or not.”

    But, we cannot help say how astonished we were to eventually see that – even though you yourself would not have got into the debate so far under this thread – and even though none of the commenters under this thread would have shown any clear attempts so far to really debate such a NO-TAXATION issue – how could it therefore have been possible still for you to express that “despite your best effort to date you have failed to win over commenters to the position no taxation is viable.” and that “if it continues clearly it becomes a credibility issue.”, without your clearly being PRO-TAXATION and having PRO-DLP leanings.

    David, the fact of the matter is that WE HAVE NOT AS YET STARTED A POLITICAL CAMPAIGN AGAINST TAXATION IN THIS COUNTRY, even though we are certainly laying the foundation for such in this country.

    So, there is no test as yet.

    Ms anon,

    Even though you did NOT address our central themes and the lead article itself directly, you must be given 7/10 points for recognizing that other political people in Barbados – outside of those particularly wretched DLP/BLP people, must be given the opportunity to serve at the highest levels of political government in this country.

    Yardbroom,

    Your words of wisdom and understanding will surely serve to inspire us upwards and onwards into this fantastic future that lies ahead for us and so many others in Barbados. It shows that amongst us there is still great possibilities for betterment in this country, in countless regards. We shall always cherish your spirit and light. You are a great source of strength. Our wider membership must know about your inspiration and encouragement in our search for better truths in this country.

    For your generosity and humanity we give you 10/10 points. Your comments are so superlative that they are worthy of reproduction for the record.

    ““If” Barbados needs a third political party, that third party will have to be different to those that now exist. That difference will be best addressed if the Party is given birth from a different womb. It might be that womb is not blessed with riches of gold and fine rainment lined, but it is possible that it is that fine rainment and gold which are the reasons for the problems that now exist.

    He who dares to stand to face the slings and arrows; deserves some credit for daring to stand; while others pass on the other side.

    It is the man who first stands “alone”that give comfort for a crowd to assemble.”

    And we leave this biblical scripture with all those persons that have so far blogged under this lead thread and even for those who have not yet blogged under it ——-

    “Enter through the narrow gate.
    For wide is the gate and broad is the
    road that leads to destruction, and many
    enter through it. But small is the gate
    and narrow the road that leads to life,
    and only a few find it” (Matthew 7:13,14).

    Almighty Bless.

    PDC

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  • THE ABOLITION OF TAXES MIGHT NOT BE A BAD THING IF YOU INTRODUCE VOLUTARY CONTRIBUTIONS TO GOVERNMENT (VCG). YOU PAY THESE CONTRIBUTIONS WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE AND WHEN GOVERNMENT IS NOT DOING WHAT YOU LIKE YOU SIMPLY CRIPPLE THEM BY NOT PAYING AT ALL. I GOING WITH PDC (PULL DOWN COUNTRY)

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  • NASSAU – The level of tax taken in by the Bahamas government each year remains “one of the lowest in the world” and simply “cannot cut it” in the long term, Prime Minister Hubert Ingraham said yesterday.
    Ingrahan defended tax increases being imposed in this year’s budget and warned that more substantial changes would be required in the future.
    Ingraham said that the country’s low-tax status remained the case “notwithstanding the increase in taxes” the government was implementing to shore up its revenue this year, such as those on cars, local beer, tourism and domestic retail banks.
    He said that the government collected the equivalent of 18 per cent of the country’s gross domestic product in tax, comparing this to the tax collected in St Lucia (29), Trinidad and Tobago (30), Jamaica (30) and Barbados (33).
    “That’s notwithstanding all of the islands and services we have to duplicate. You know how easy it is to run a Barbados with a similar population (size), with one island, one set of high schools, one set of primary schools, one set of roads, one set of electricity to generate?” (Tribune)

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  • There are a few obvious grammatical errors in the above post ( like in the 3rd paragraph, line 6, with the inadvertent use of “there””instead of “they” ), and which any serious reader can now pinpoint better now than at such a point in time when the above response was produced and sent to BU (in the wee hours of the morning).

    We accept full responsibility for them though.

    Thanks too to Brutus for the comment.

    And even to ac for attempting to put a wronged, nevertheless, philosophical twist to our NO-TAXATION VISION.

    Ohhhhhhhh Noooooooooo, ac.

    What you are seeing is the unmitigated truth. When it comes to these fundamental matters that will seriously affect the lives of our people, we will NEVER conceal our real intentions. A future PDC Government will ABOLISH ALL TAXATION in this country, and for the benefit of every one – not just for one class of people.

    PDC

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  • Jokers,

    You would NOT believe it, but one of the reasons for this NO-TAXATION PARADIGM is to eventually see – under such a PARADIGM – the state management entity/entities that is/are in charge of the running of the affairs of the Government of Barbados, functioning in the future like the how almost all companies business enterprises do right now in the private sector in Barbados and elsewhere, where those who are in charge of them are made far more accountable liable for many of their own corporate, some times, personal, actions and decisions in the course of the carrying out of the businesses of these enterprises, and esp. those ones that relate to the misspending of money income – by their having to realize that the money income that they spend or would have spent would have had to be hard earned/would be so much more valued, and moreso would have CLEAR DISTINCT power over them by their respective OWNERS.

    So, by NO LONGER having any more THIS WICKED EVIL TAXATION SYSTEM to hide behind and to help in the gross and reckless mismanagement of the affairs of the government and the people of this country, would mean that these particular people in government would exercise greater degrees of care in how they spend such incomes ,and would exercise too greater degrees of care in how they irrationalize bringing about so many useless ministries and departments and processes of the government that many citizens in this country CLEARLY DID NOT ASK FOR OR DEMAND.

    For, it is entirely crazy that Ministers of Government and Governments and many public servants in Barbados have over the years continued – with impunity or without the possibility of real sanctions being imposed on them – to the waste and squander millions and millions of that money income that would have been stolen from the general income of the relevant people, businesses and others in this country, or continued – with impunity or without any real fear of real sanctions being imposed on them – to corruptly wickedly siphon off – directly or indirectly – millions and millions of dollars of that income into their money pockets or into the money pockets of some of their friends and some of their families.

    The damn thing is that IF such money incomes were personally theirs or were part of some business ventures of which they themselves were a part of, they would hardly have been seeking to misspend or misaappropriate such monies. For it it were so, they would have to think seriously about the consequences that they will have to face for the maintenance of their job positions, their tenures etc, of wasting misappropriating such money income.

    Here, our argument is certainly that the latter kinds of strictures/actions are NOT VERY MUCH prevalent/taken ( NOT NON-EXISTENT THOUGH) within the public sector of this country.

    No wonder that the government/public sector is so much more unwieldy, inefficient, unrational and unproductive than the private sector in Barbados.

    The message is clear: TAXATION MUST GO!!!

    So, you are certainly correct, Jokers, if we got you there correctly.

    PDC

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  • Taxes, Taxis and taxies, all take you where you don’t wan’t to go. May I paraphrase the Bard and say: ” A pox on all your taxes.”

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  • @PDC
    How would PDC abolishing taxes help t he poor an underprvileged,
    Can you mention if or any benefits would be of better help to them than those that are administered by now and previous governments.

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  • “How would PDC abolishing taxes help the poor and underprivileged,”

    Just two ways out of so many ways.

    1) By making sure that the poor and underprivileged ( and all relevant others) can afford many more goods and services at cheaper costs in Barbados. So, by removing TAXATION altogether – there will be the situation in Barbados whereby with THE SAME LEVELS OF INCOME – you might here now remember that we are going to be Abolishing Exchange Rates Parities with the Barbados Dollar – Making sure that Imports of Goods and Services are Zero-priced at all points of Entry, etc. – AS ARE FOUND IN BARBADOS, OR WITH LOWER LEVELS OF INCOME THAT ARE NOT NOW PRESENTLY FOUND IN BARBADOS BUT WHICH WILL BE FOUND TO BE SO IN THE FUTURE IN BARBADOS FOR ALL PROFESSIONAL CATEGORIES – which will mean under a PDC Government every person performing in any enterprise that will be dealing actively with money and the provision of any commercial services to the public ( cause we are here looking at these things in such ways as they will be found to be coming about in a few years from now ), THERE WILL STILL BE THOSE LEVELS OF INCOME ( measured in simple digit terms across time) CAPABLE OF BUYING FAR MORE GOODS AND SERVICES THAN PRESENTLY OBTAIN.

    THIS PHENOMENON WILL ESSENTIALLY BE WHAT WE NOW REFER TO AS INDIVIDUALS AND BUSINESSES HAVING “GREATER INCOMES”. THIS GREATER INCOME CAPACITY WILL FURTHERMORE REALIZE GREATER AMOUNTS OF GOODS AND SERVICES BEING BOUGHT SOLD RENT LEASED, AND AT THE SAME TIME MEAN GOODS AND SERVICES/ BEING MADE MORE AVAILABLE TO THE MASSES AND MIDDLE CLASSES OF THIS COUNTRY, AS A PRIMARY RESULT OF THE COSTS OF THESE GOODS AND SERVICES BEING MADE CHEAPER THROUGH THE REMOVAL OF TAXATION, INTEREST RATES, THROUGH THE PORT AUTHORITIES BEING ABLE TO CHARGE INCOMES ( LOWER THAN NOW FOR SURE ) DIRECTLY FOR THE USE OF THEIR SERVICES ON THE WHOLE.

    Of course, right now, Taxation, Interest Rates, Import “Prices”, constitute very massive, totally unnecessary portions of the overall costs of production and distribution of goods andd services in this country – our money/incomes would be far better allocated without them.

    2) With the removal of TAXATION (Interest Rates, Institutional Repayable Productive Loans too, etc.) there WILL BE UNPRECEDENTED HIGHER LEVELS OF SOCIAL SERVICES, SOCIAL WELFARE, SECURITY, PHYSICAL INFRASTRUCTURAL SERVICES AVAILABLE, AND OF BETTER QUALITIES ON THE WHOLE, THAT WOULD BE DELIVERED TO ALL AND SUNDRY ( the poor and underprivileged included) THAN NOW.

    For, as industrial and commercial activity, and internal/external trading activity both surge spectacularly higher – with the removal of TAXATION, Interest Rates, Institutional Repayable Productive Loans, Exports being paid for in foreign currency/”prices” of etc. and with their being replaced with the appropriate proper regimes) – to higher and greater real material productive levels across Barbados, through too the money goods/services exchange transaction the money circulation processes becoming altogether made more efficient and made more rapidized and made more corporatized than now in the country, those SOCIAL, SOCIAL WELFARE , SECURITY, PHYSICAL INFRASTRUCTURAL SERVICES will still be NECESSARILY bound up in this greater WELL MANAGED release of productive and spiritual and intellectual energies in this country.

    Throughout the country, in the education intellectual sectors and provinces – formal informal – it will be strongly emphasized that the social and public and national side of things are the real complementary aspects of the private and personal/individual and parochial side of things, and vice-a-versa.

    And such will be demonstrated in the material physical sectors provinces, such that it will greater emphasized that you cannot reasonably have one and NOT the other – and that they are either composites of the higher wider side of things or overarchs of the smaller constituent side of things, at higher or lower levels in the Barbados society.

    So, as the cost of providing such services will dramatically be lowered with the Removal of T-IRS- INSRPLOS, ETC., there will be greater private, personal/individual, parochial participation in the provision of those facilities and services than presently obtain – alongside marginally less continued participation by the government in the provision of such facilities and services – given the complementary inseperable linkages of each side of those things in this society, and given the need to properly allocate the resources of the country consistent with the attainment of maximum social or spiritual or financial value or satisfaction.

    Hence, there will be more or less trends towards ensuring those balances in the affairs of the country.

    Okay, ac

    The stupid myth that is peddled by some persons who are really ignorant about how many societies have evolved and how they presently function, that social, social welfare, security, physical infrastructural facilities services will NOT happen without TAXATION will also be exploded and destroyed once and for all.

    The fact is that social services and those other things did NOT start with the state organization in this world. They preceded it.

    PDC

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  • @PDC
    The probabilty that those various organization churches etc. was unable to handled the many needs of the people it was necessary for the government to intervene. So are you saying that these needs for the poor and underprvileged would be again handled by those organizations. .How are you going to get these organizations to take on such a massive program without the help of government . Which then if I should rudely interrupt to asked where would the government get the funds from to aid them?

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  • Enuff,

    While the information that you provided above has been useful in providing a basis for analysing what was reportedly said by the Prime Minister of Bahamas, Mr. Hubert Ingraham, esp. as it relates to the matter of his increasing the TAXATION burden on the backs of the Bahamian people, and as it concerns the question of his saying that “substantial changes ( MORE TAXATION INCREASES ) would be required in the future.”, it is clear that sowing mischief in the minds of the readers of this article was one of the reasons why you decided to reproduce that article in the manner and at the time you did.

    By your using that story, generally, and the reported comments of Mr. Ingraham, specifically, in the context of our dealing with the ABOLITION of TAXATION, which whenever this happens will be a truly historic achievement in the political financial development of this country, it is clear that you did seek to convey the wrong impression “spirit” to some people on here, that what the Bahamas is presently doing in terms of increasing TAXATION, should be a lesson to the PDC and to those who support this NO-TAXATION model for Barbados and all other countries, since EVEN the Bahamas – which has long had a regime of low TAXATION – the story says – 18 % of GDP now – has finally had to be increasing TAXATION – because of what?????

    And wretchedly enough the same story that you, Enuff, reproduced above does NOT say why the the Bahamian government is doing so!! But, is it because “all of the islands and services we have to duplicate” bull shit thinking? What fallacious information!!!!

    But, the PDC will NEVER allow your very FALSE ERRONEOUS impressions to go unaddressed and unassailed, which – without the latter effort – would only sail then into the minds of the uncritical as being believable/plausible.

    So, here is part of another story that was published in The Tribune on: Thursday, January 07, 2010 … and which you – Enuff – and some others on here would do well to read and dissect considering what you, Enuff, posted above.

    —————————————————————————————-

    “By NEIL HARTNELL
    Tribune Business Editor

    A leading fiscal hawk yesterday said he did not have “much confidence” in the Government’s ability to get the nation’s finances back on the right track, given that it had achieved “one year of no deficit in 26-27 years of independence” and was now faced with a national debt totalling almost $3.8 billion.

    Rick Lowe, an executive with the Nassau Institute economic think-tank, said that with the national debt approaching at least $3.8 billion, “future generations of Bahamians will have a burden that no generation has had to carry before”.

    Criticising both FNM and PLP governments for fiscal profligacy that has endured over successive administrations, Mr Lowe said SENIOR BAHAMIAN POLITICIANS AND CIVIL SERVANTS HAD SHOWN NO APPETITE FOR TACKLING WHAT HE IDENTIFIED AS THE KEY FACTOR BEHIND RECURRENT FISCAL DEFICITS – EVER -INCREASING SPENDING AND THE GROWING SIZE OF GOVERNMENT. “I think both parties are culpable. THEY’VE BOTH BORROWED AND SPENT AND PRINTED MONEY, AND RUN DEFICITS, FOR FAR TOO LONG ( OUR CAPITALS FOR EMPHASIS ), ” Mr Lowe told Tribune Business yesterday.

    —————————————————————————————-

    So, Enuff , the problem is NOT the low levels of TAXATION in the Bahamas – BECAUSE THERE IS CLEARLY NO REASON TO INCREASE TAXATION IN THE BAHAMAS – BUT THE CRITICAL PROBLEMS OF INCREASING OVER-SPENDING BY GOVERNMENT AND THE GROWING SIZE OF THE GOVERNMENT, according to a Mr. Lowe in that particular article,
    ( AND WHICH HAS LED TO SERIOUS GROWTH IN THEIR GOVERNMENT DEBT – which is now about 52 % of their GDP – which according to the CIA Fact Book on the Bahamas economy is US $ 7.4 Billion).

    But, Ingraham will use the very worthless disabling dastard process of increasing TAXATION in that country, when it has already clearly been identified by persons like Mr. Lowe that some of the fundamental problems in the Bahamian government’s fiscal and operating affairs are excessive government spending and big government.

    Clearly, rather than moving towards the Abolition of TAXATION, Mr. Ingraham has made and seems set to make many more very backward steps, by increasing the proportion of TAXATION as a percentage of the Bahamas GDP.

    PDC

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  • ac,

    By the government using this rank stupid foolish myth – that is has to TAX the general income throughout the country to help provide social services, security services, and physical infrastructures – it does show yet that the government – even though it is the BEST provider of social services and security services (certainly NOT of physical infrastructures) right now, is using the WORST AND MOST FAILED METHOD IMAGINABLE – TAXATION – TO HELP FINANCE SUCH, and is using some very bad financial methods as well to help finance such – BORROWING.

    So, the government is stealing and robbing and borrowing its way to ultimate financial hell to help provide for these social services. In this vein, they are stealing and robbing very productive people and many other productive entities, as well as they are borrowing from very productive people and many other productive entities. But, in doing so, they create far more problems for themselves and thousands upon thousands of people, businesses and many other entities in this country, when they do so – such as creating/or helping to create MORE POVERTY OR THE MOST POVERTY in the country, with their very intellectually and philosophically bankrupt inhuman policies.

    While social services, security services, and physical infrastructures are utmostly needed, and must therefore be provided for the holistic benefit of entire populations in the Barbadian society, and to help bring about the further growth and development of hte Barbadian society, IT IS THE FINANCIAL MONEY COSTS OF PROVIDING SUCH SERVICES AND INFRASTRUCTURES THAT WILL IN BARBADOS DOLLARS DETERMINE THE EXTENT TO WHICH SUCH WILL BE PROVIDED.

    With the costs of provided such services and infrastructures so alarmingly high today, there is no doubt that the provision of thee services and infrastructures willl be compromised – but only in the context of the present ramshackle rickety irrelevant wicked systems of financing such (TAXATION/BORROWING), or in which case, in terms of the latter too, the trade offs with other systems are unbearable and staggeringly high costing.

    The fact of the matter, though, is that with those many PDC policy measures that are designed:

    1) to eliminate productive debt through out Barbados,

    2) to drastically reduce NON-productive debt through out the country,

    3) to ensure that the cost of living and doing business are drastically reduced in Barbados, in contrast with prior occasions and in contrast with other jurisdictions, and

    4) to ensure that the costs of the money/value circulating through out the material productive and distributive systems in the country are lowered to desirable levels ( NEVER to that point where the Barbados currency is seen by many as of little value ) –

    5) to ensure that the government itself does not spend or borrow beyond its means –

    a) by – in respect of 1,3 and 4 above – making sure that institutional loans for productive purposes are made NON-repayable – the government and many others will be major beneficiaries of this policy,

    b) by – in respect of 1 – 4 above – making sure that interest rates are abolished – the government and many others will be major beneficiaries of this policy,

    c) by – in regard of 2, 3, and 4 above – making sure that far less than the original principal sums borrowed institutionally by institutional borrowers are repaid by institutional borrowers – the government as well as many others will benefit substantially from this policy,

    d) by – in respect of 3 and 4 above – making sure that imports of goods and services are zero-“priced” at all points of entry – many people, business houses and entities will benefit tremendously from this dispensation,

    e) by – in regard of 3 and 4 – making sure that exchange rates parities with the Barbados Dollar are abolished – many people, business houses and other entities will benefit greatly from this policy,

    f) by – in respect of 2, 3, 4, and 5 above – the government WILL BE BARRED FROM issuing government debt paper to financial institutions, to the public, etc. Within the last year or so, the Central Bank has damnedly issued on the behalf of the government of Barbados – which has no capacity itself to repay such – over BDS $ 670 million to financial institutions, the public, concerning treasury notes, debentures, saving bonds, etc. at various interest rates levels – such is stark madness pure madness,

    g) by ensuring the putting of alternative, fairer and more efficient and productive methods in place of all of the above and more,

    the government, the private sector, non-governmental organizations, social clubs, churches, and persons generally will have far greater opportunities than now to be able to provide as many commercial goods and services as possible as well as to be able to provide as many social goods and services as possible in this country.

    So, with such and more old destructive systems being totally removed, or being substantially reformed to help bring about greater efficiencies in them, and synergies to them, and with new constructive efficient systems being put in place, the path will certainly be laid for the greater sustained long term material and social development of this country.

    Also, with the government right now having more than enough resources, assets, human beings under its wings, a drastic reduction in the size of the government in the future to bring it down to practicable levels of general efficiency and cost effectiveness, will still mean that it will have an adequate amount of resources, assets, and partners to enable it to achieve certain social material and financial targets of its own, so much so that it will still be capable of selling more of its goods and services – either on its own or in partnerships with many other enterprises – here and abroad – in order to help provide for the funding of such social services, security services, and physical infrastructure.

    Also, ac, you need to go back to many of our relevant posts on here, and see the strategies that we have that will allow for the successful implementation of this NO-TAXATION model in Barbados.

    PDC

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  • After reading the article and responses. The saying waste not want not came to mind. So much waste has occured with persons hard earned taxes that one can’t tolerate seeing dollars and scents disappear through thoughtless or inconceivable actions without anything to show for it and where it could have been more readily distributed to other social groups or institutions for some immediate effect towards improved quality of life. Perhaps better forms of taxation, lower taxation where necessary would make tax payers happier, put a crunch on government spending but perhaps force more decisions to be made on the basis of beneficial results for the country and citizens and not on “we have the money”.

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