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Joy Workman and Eudine Barriteau (right), deputy principal of the University of the West Indies – Photo Credit Nation Newspaper

The 2010 Crop Over Festival is about to reach its climax. Tonight will see the staging of Cohobblopot which is being promoted with all local performers; a departure from the past two years. Tomorrow the masqueraders will take to the road to jump on Kadooment Day on a new route which has generated the usual controversy among the band leaders. All in all the NCF directorate seems to be happy with how the festival has gone so far. Not sure the criteria which is being used.

Before the festival closes we want to share our opinion on the growing popularity by adults to wearing their school uniforms to Crop Over fetes. The fetes are openly promoted as โ€˜Back to School Fetesโ€™, to be admitted a school uniform must* be worn. There was one such fete a couple weeks ago by Power X 4 which attracted thousands of party people and the police had to stop the fete for security reasons. If Barbadians did not have an opinion on the matter the outspoken Minister of Education Ronald Jones provoked many given his position on the matter.

โ€œ. . . Because of the profound respect I had for the uniform of my school, I am not wearing that to any fete, before school, after school, or even during school, especially during vacation; unless it was a special programme organised by my school where you ask the students to turn up in their uniforms.

โ€œHow far we have drifted. The kind of respect we hold to certain symbols that give us authority, that give us presence in our schools. There are so many things that people can do to enjoy themselves. I want them to leave the uniforms alone. I want them to leave the uniforms for the symbols of the schools,โ€ Jones saidโ€ โ€“ Nation Newspaper.

So far no bad behaviour has been reported arising from Barbadians attending โ€˜Back to School Fetesโ€™. By and large it appears Barbadians have acted responsibly at the many Crop Over parties by having some clean fun. According to our sources the Ellerslie Back to School Fete was so well attended the bar was unable to service patrons who in some cases had to resort to the trunks of their cars to quench their thirst. BU understands Minister Jonesโ€™ concern given the problems his ministry is having with indiscipline in the schools. Is it possible students maybe observing the adult behaviour and reinforcing ill advised behaviours of their own? We just donโ€™t know although commonsense suggest this is likely It should be easy for our social scientists to test this matter using scientific methods. Isnโ€™t this why we boast of an educated workforce?

Here is what we know. Many of our schools are struggling to attract interest from parents to discuss their* childrenโ€™s progress. Many of our schools are struggling to install vibrant Parent Teachers Associations. Many of our schools have little or no old scholar involvement. It is surprising therefore that many of these proud old scholars are motivated to attends the many โ€˜Back to School Fetesโ€™ in the thousands.

Yes we agree with Minister Ronald Jones that our adults need to respect the school uniforms. The bigger issue for BU is why the support for the fetes by our adults and not the same support for important school activities by our adults? Is it a case of misplaced priorities? Is it a case of a society driven to rivalry because of the economic pressures they have been subjected?

Is itโ€ฆ?


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106 responses to “Adults Wearing School Uniforms To Crop Over Parties, Are They Also Supporting The Alumni And Parent Teachers Associations?”

  1. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    @David, Atman and Bosun,

    You are failing to understand what a free society entails. We all have likes and dislikes in clothing, art, cars, food, religion, skin colour, patterns of speech, etc. But so do others. And in a democratic society governed by the rule of law, we must learn to accept different views, (so long as they are not against the law) without seeking to impose our likes and dislikes on others. Think about it.


  2. @Jeff

    Who should act as the gatekeepers in any society to protect moral minimum?

    You have to admit that though not legislated a society must discuss/debate events which in a view may lead to social instability.

    Social instability ultimately will have economic consideration.

    Surely you are not saying such matters should be devoid of leadership.


  3. @Mystery Man

    Email it to BU, click on the icon to the right which says ‘ How to contact us’

  4. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    David,

    Are you suggesting that certain forms of clothing will lead to social instability? Which ones? Thongs? Bingo bags? Bowties?

    Come on, or as one contributor is wont to say, “What instability what? Just relax. Live and let live.


  5. @Jeff

    The influence of the Bushman appears to have made its way all the way to the hill? lol

    We shall have to disagree on this one.

    BU does not* subscribe to the culture of cultural relativism which appears to be rampaging through out schools, universities and other purveyors of learning and leadership.

  6. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    So will you tell me David, whose view will eventually govern? The ruling party? The Church? (which one?) Will we have a referendum on it? Or simply the popular view, as perceived?

    I must confess that I don’t understand your (BU’s?)stricture about “cultural relativism”. I thought that all culture was relative to its specific environment, but I could be wrong!


  7. @Jeff

    To clarify, at minimum we (Barbadians) should cultivate an ethos in our society which protects robust debate on issues like this which reflect different positions.

    The sharing of diverging views at minimum feeds all the parties with information to make the best individual decisions. It is not a solution per se but a…

  8. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    We can agree on this, David. Let a thousand ideas contend.

  9. Bonny Peppa in N.Y Chillin Avatar
    Bonny Peppa in N.Y Chillin

    I tink dat we blowin dis uniform ting outta proportion man. It’s for de season only man.Doan be sa tin-skin n miserable.
    I gine nex yare an I wearin a Queen Kolij newniform becausen I did always fancy dah skool but din brite enuff ta ware de newniform.
    So wunna-all kin look fa me nex ‘ear clad in dah newniform, sox n bak-pak tu.

    Bosun
    mwahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


  10. Bonny !!

    I love you

    glad to see yuh


  11. Jeff Cumberbatch wrote pm // August 3, 2010 at 8:24 AM …David…Are you suggesting that certain forms of clothing will lead to social instability? Which ones? Thongs? Bingo bags?

    Bingo bags will lead to social instability. If Bajan women keep on wearing bingo bags, then Bajan men will all be enticed away by thong wearing foreign women.

    I lie?


  12. Do you know that in some quarters, some enterprising professional women offer their services dressed in girls school uniforms and are well patronised and compensated. (so I was told)

  13. BOnny Peppa In N.Y Chilling Avatar
    BOnny Peppa In N.Y Chilling

    kissmya
    I wonda why you like me so? You like trouble I guess.

    All women can’t wear tongs just like all women can’t wear bingo bags. Some women in tongs is enuff ta mek any man pukkeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Bosun
    Um in gun stop me from wearing my QC newniform nex ‘ear. I wanna see you in you Cawmere tie only.LOLLLLLLLLLLL


  14. @Jeff Cumberbatch
    ” So will you tell me David ,whose view will eventually govern? The ruling party? the church? which one..”
    I cannot speak for David, but it looks like the Law of the Jungle will eventually prevail , if many of us liberals have our way. You seem to be implying that if its not on our Statute Books, then it cannot be enforced or even questioned.


  15. @Bosun

    It seems that we are ole school. A society must have a complementary moral framework.

  16. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    @Bosun,

    You have not answered my question to David which you quoted. And if conduct is not prohibited on the statute books (i.e. by law), under what rule, pray tell, are you planning to “enforce” (and by this I assume you mean punish) it?


  17. @ J.C
    Take the work place for example, there are a host of rules and regulations which govern the conduct of an employee and are not prohibited by law, but are nevertheless enforced. i.e Drinking on the job, reporting to work late or being absent, cussing on the job.etc etc. Are you telling me that the management of any company who enforces these rules are acting outside of the law?


  18. @Jeff

    I’ve always been of the view that too much freedom corrupts. I am one who believes there should be a law against men walking around in public with their underwear exposed. I also believe that there should be laws against the sluttish way that many young women dress and walk the streets as well. There was a time when you could distinguish a prostitute from any other woman by her dress code…not today. We as a people embrace everything we see coming out of America…everything that is lewd, vulgar, and disgusting. Are you telling me that I must learn to accept this rather than try to discourage it? Doesn’t the preservation of good morals, values, and standards count for anything anymore? Aren’t we suppose to be the craftsmen of our fate?

  19. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    @Bosun,

    In fact the workplace is governed by the contract of employment which is a legal construct. So the worker who drinks on the job or is constantly late is in breach of a term of that contract and may be disciplined lawfully. He could not be lawfully disciplined however for not going to church on Easter Sunday, for example, unless that was a term of the agreement! Or because do not like his cologne!

    @Atman,

    I have no quarrel with what you think the law should be, and I’ll always defend your right to attempt to change it Know, however, that not everyone agrees with your view of what should be outlawed!

    For instance, I also think certain styles of dress are disgusting, but I fail to see how it harms any right of mine, so I do the democratic thing and let people alone to wear what pleases them. As they do to me!

  20. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    Erratum: “Or because THE EMPLOYERS do not like his cologne…”


  21. @Jeff

    Our laws recognize something called ‘public morality’, how is this recognized?


  22. @ David

    “Even where a forbidden act is committed intentionally, a court deciding that it is a crime is not committed to the proposition that it is a moral wrong. Thus in holding that a summary proceeding for an offence under the Game Act was criminal in character, Lord Cambell C.J. Said: “It is our business, not to estimate the degree of moral guilt in the act of the appellant, but to see how such act is treated by the legislature….I cannot be bound by any opinion I may form of the morality of that act: but I must see what it is that the legislature has chosen to punish”: Cattell v. Ireson (1858) E.B & E.. at pp. 97-98. There are crimes of great gravity in the legal calendar, such as mercy-killing, and eugenic abortion, which are disputably moral wrongs, though they are indisputably crimes. The same is true of numerous summary offences. Lord Atkin put the situation pungently. “The criminal quality of an act cannot be discerned by intuition; nor can it be discovered by reference to any standard but one: is the act prohibited with penal consequences? Morality and criminality are far from coextensive; nor is the sphere of criminality necessarily part of a more extensive field covered by morality- unless the moral code necessarily disapproves of all acts prohibited by the state, in which case the argument moves in a circle”: Proprietary Articles Trade Association v. Att.-Gen for Canada [1931] A.C. 324 (P.C).”

    Casebook on Criminal Law
    D.W.Elliott & Celia Wells


  23. Hants // August 2, 2010 at 12:01 PM

    Jeff man you got to onstan dat a suit does mek a Bajan FEEL he look real important.
    —————-

    Hmmm. And internationally, some of the biggest con-men / crooks also wear the finest suits, drive the finest cars, better to deceive.

  24. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    David,

    The concept of public morality is hotly disputed as a measuring stick for the unlawfulness of conduct- See Shaw v DPP [1962] AC 220. If anything, it is determined by the judge’s view of what the majority opinion on a given point is, after the DPP has instituted criminal proceedings on that basis.

    Not likely here in terms of wearing school uniforms to fetes, I assure you!


  25. @Yardbroom

    Point taken as it applies to interpretation of the law. In the design of law the process is not divorce from the mores of any society?


  26. David

    “@Yardbroom
    Point taken as it applies to interpretation of the law. In design of law the process is not divorce from the mores of society?”
    *******************************************
    If we take “mores” to mean the customs and conventions embodying the fundamental values of a community. It could be argued that the legislature takes account of those mores in framing the law.

    I fear we could go “cyclic” on this one and then it would be a long night. In all honesty I see where you are coming from. However, the courts are not places of morality…they are for the law of the land. I can see another powerful argument being elicited from my last sentence…so I will rest it there.


  27. @Yardbroom: “However, the courts are not places of moralityโ€ฆthey are for the law of the land.

    In other words, the courts should only interpret the language (read: the laws) in a amoral way.

    Unfortunately, the “laws of the land” here in Bim and some places elsewhere is written in the English; a seriously imperfect and ambiguous language….


  28. @ Christopher Halsall

    I did not want to enter this minefield…but your comment warrants a serious response and it would be impolite to do otherwise.

    I will therefore direct you to lloyd, Introduction to Jurisprudence (4th ed.) pp.54-59 and leave it at that.

    “A good deal of controversy has arisen in recent years as to whether the fact that conduct is, by common standards, regarded as immoral, in itself justifies making that conduct punishable by law. This controversy was set off by the opinion expressed in the Wolfenden Committee Report on Prostitution and Homosexuality (Cmnd. 247,1957), which in effect re-asserted the answer given by John Stuart Mill, that legal coercion can only be justified for the purpose of preventing harm to others. Accordingly, on this view, there is a moral or ethical limit beyond the appropriate reach of the law. Mill’s thesis had been attacked by the great Victorian judge, Stephen, in his Liberty, Equality and Fraternity, and the issue was now rekindled by Lord Delvin’s critique of Wolfenden in a lecture called The Enforcement of Morals, delivered in 1959. Lord Delvin has subsequently returned to this theme a number of times [ see Delvin, The Enforcement of Morals, O.U.P., 1965]. He has argued that there is a public morality which provides the cement of any human human society, and that the law, especially the criminal law, must regard it as its primary function to maintain this public morality. * A point I believe David on BU alluded* Whether in fact in any particular case the law should be brought into play by specific criminal sanctions must depend upon the state of public feeling. Conduct which arouses a widespread feeling of reprobation, a mixture of ‘intolerance, indignation and disgust’, deserves to be suppressed by legal coercion in the interest of the integrity of society. For this purpose, Lord Delvin has recourse to the common law jury idea, the notion that the man in the jury-box supplies an adequate standard of current morality for the purpose of assessing the limits of legal intervention. The juryman after all does not give a snap judgment; his verdict is the outcome of argument and deliberation after, perhaps, listening to expert evidence and receving giudance from an experienced judge. * The point I previously made, naturally the Judge would take cognizance of the Law* and as for reliance upon feeling, this was the ordinary man’s best guide where a choice had to be made between a number of reasonable conclusions. He therefore stigmatises as an ‘error of jurisprudence’ the view in the Wolfenden report that there is some single principle explaining the division between crime and sin, such as that based upon Mill’s notion of what may lead to harmful consequences to third persons.

    Delvin concluded that if vice were not suppressed society would crumble: The suppression of vice is as much the law’s business as the suppression of subversive activities.

    Such a thesis appears to have received some support from the remarkable decision of The House of Lords in the so called Ladies Directory Case, (shaw v.D.P.P. [1962] A.C. 220), but has been strenuously opposed by Professor Hart (H.L.A.Hart Law, Liberty and Morality, OU.P.’1963)

    I apologise for the length of this comment but a contrary opinion should be given “some” light…I will now take off my pads .


  29. @Yardbroom

    Appreciate the effort to elucidate.


  30. @Yardbroom… I appreciate your lengthy reply above…

    However, you failed to mention the eventual outcome of the “Wolfenden Committee Report on Prostitution and Homosexuality”…

    The passage of the “Sexual Offences Act 1967” in England.

    I believe my point still stands — courts should remain amoral.


  31. @Christopher Halsall

    The courts -should remain amoral,

    Isn’t it the duty of the court to enforce law even if the judgement has to do with things immoral. Giving what you said in the above comment. I guess a pedophile would be given free reing in carrying out sexual immoral acts upon children as the courts should remain
    ” a moral”. The courts do have aright to met out justice as required by law if not wewould be living in a society that thinks anything goes immoral or otherwise.


  32. Personnally I prefer them to be butt naked than to degared the “sacred uniform”. Next year I will dress as Mother Theresa In that way i will only offend the catholics . .


  33. @Jeff

    The dress code or behaviour of persons may not infringe on any of your legals rights, but its impact on society can be devastating nonetheless. Ask yourself why we have so many social ills in Barbados to contend with.

    I’m sure that second-hand cigarette smoke have affected alot of people in Barbados over the years even though it never infringed on any of their legal rights…until come October. So were people wrong to be angry and annoyed with smokers in public places before?


  34. @ac: “Isnโ€™t it the duty of the court to enforce law even if the judgement has to do with things immoral.

    Absolutely.

    @ac: “Giving what you said in the above comment. I guess a pedophile would be given free reing in carrying out sexual immoral acts upon children as the courts should remain

    You are misinterpreting the language…

    Any court should decide each case based on the cold basic logic viewed through the lens of the laws (language) on the books….


  35. @CH

    NO I am not misinterpreting any language It is word “amoral” that you have used to underscore the issue of what is right or wrong and how the intervention of the courts
    should be with held. . I however did challlenge your supposition as using the “pedophile” as an example to where it would be necessary for the courts to deal with such matters..
    Further more in your last comment you have basically agreed that the court does have the right to make such decisions..Now the law is the law and the judge cannot change what is written even though he can interpret law.that does not mean his interpretation cannot be challenged in a higher court.


  36. @ac: “Now the law is the law and the judge cannot change what is written even though he can interpret law.

    Just wondering… Why do you presume the Judge is a male?


  37. And in a democratic society governed by the rule of law, we must learn to accept different views, (so long as they are not against the law) without seeking to impose our likes and dislikes on others.

    I have been pondering upon the above statement, esppecially the bracketed section which states “so long as they are not against the law”, and I will ask the question is the law therefore 100% efficient. The answer to this is of course no.

    So how can we then make such a statement as regards the law, as though it is omnipotent. Surely we can not create laws for every thing under the sun. It is therefore best I would think, that a society sometimes judge itself upon those things it hold to be either *right, or wrong* (morals).

    I don’t think there is a magistrate who would find that every case he presides over fits exactly into the mold the law has carve out, but also applies in his judgement, those things he knows to be right, or wrong.

    As the law is therefore inefficient in some areas, the morality of a society must also play its role.

    As the law does not speak about *performing revelry in school uniforms* we will therefore have to rely upon our moral compasses as to whether it is *right, or wrong*.

    In so doing is it right, or wrong to put on a uniform worn by our children to wine down low till we touch our toes. Is it right, or wrong to drink till we fall down drunk in the said uniforms. Is it also right, or wrong to do all these things and heaven knows what more, and yet look upon our children and tell them to respect the uniforms.

    You out there with the moral compasses tell us, as the law has no say on this. Is it right, or wrong, or is it just a case of persons imposing their likes and dislikes on others?

  38. Bonny Peppa in N.Y Chillin Avatar
    Bonny Peppa in N.Y Chillin

    I’m still trying to figure out what all the hullabaloo is about persons wearing school uniforms once a year during Crop Over fete. Take it as is and stop reading more into it than it really is. Loosen up peoples. No harm done.peoplessssssssssssss.

    Nex ‘ear I donning my newniform too. Short games skirt wid tall boots n a nippy,nippy top. De place mash upppppppppppp,


  39. Perhaps we need to draft our laws like the British Armed Forces, Queens Regulations. It is as thick as a bible,and in case it does not cover something in particular,there is a Section 70, a blanket charge, ” Prejudice to the good order of Military Discipline.”
    @ Bonny ,for a minute I thought you said ‘grass skirt’,cause you know I am a vegetarian,…primarily.


  40. @Anon who wrote:

    And in a democratic society governed by the rule of law, we must learn to accept different views, (so long as they are not against the law) without seeking to impose our likes and dislikes on others.
    =============================================================
    That is non-sense. Laws are created and amended based on the voice of the popular majority. People have to voice their concerns in order for politians to act upon it. Laws do not make themselves…people make laws.


  41. @Anon

    I made a mistake. Please replace “popular majority” with “moral majority”.


  42. @ Atman

    My apologies, I did not show attribution to the person who made that particular comment earlier. (Jeff Cumberbatch // August 3, 2010 at 7:54 AM)

  43. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    Atman,

    I an not saying that people do not have a right to agitate for their desires, whatever these may be. But does it really matter that much to you how others dress that you would devote your energies to forcing them to conform to your standards? Which, in fact, may differ from others.

    History tells us that there is not much hope for change in that regard.

    Incidentally, there is not currently a law against smoking in public places. Remember the proposed Noise Abatement Act?

  44. Bonny Peppa in N.Y Chillin Avatar
    Bonny Peppa in N.Y Chillin

    Bosun
    It cud be a ‘grass-skirt’ too. Anyting fa you my Boo.:-)


  45. @Jeff who wrote:
    But does it really matter that much to you how others dress that you would devote your energies to forcing them to conform to your standards? Which, in fact, may differ from others.
    ==============================================================
    Yes it does matter to me how people dress because whether you realize or not, the vile and indecent wayr in which many young people (especially females) attire themselves lead to all manner of social ills including disrespect, rape, teenage pregnancies, and STDs. This is not say that these ills did not always exist, but to what extent?

    In my short 46 years on this planet I have seen our society get progressively worst. While our economic situation has improved over the years, our social fabric has deteriorated badly. We have more of everything that is bad than we ever did before…more murders, more vulgarity, more rape, more drugs, more robberies, more prostitution, more homosexuality, etc..etc. To what do you attribute this progressive downward spiral Mr. Cumberbatch, and how would you suggest we go about tackling it?

  46. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    Mr Atman,

    Is there really an increase in rapes, teenage pregnancies, STD’s? And if there is, you ascribe it purely to the way people dress? How simplistic!

    Should everyone dress like a Victorian spinster then and all will be well? Is it that simple?


  47. What if at some point the people who want to dress scantily vastly outnumber those who do not? Should Atman and others be forced to conform to the majority standards of dress? I hope not, but that would seem to follow from Atman’s argument.


  48. @Atman,
    I have been around 12 years longer than you and I agree there is a difference,

    The difference is that people now are doing openly what they did “hidden” when I was a youngster.

    Yes women are wearing more revealing clothing but that does not mean they are immoral. It just means you are a prude.

    Atman you would function well in Arab countries: veils and burkhas ?

    Prehaps we should focus on creating sustainable employment and meaningful education for the young people of Barbados and worry less about how they dress.


  49. Victorian society was actually a very naughty society. The official or public face was very proper but beneath that facade …oh dear delicious scandal. Contrary to the opinions of people like Atman, I believe that Barbados is a vastly more moral and ethical society today than it was in the past (both the distant past and the recent past). By moral, I am referring to the general treatment of people particularly those perceived to be of a humble station. We are better housed, schooled, fed, clothed, care for medically, entertained, informed and more free to pursue and practice our personal beliefs and customs than ever before.


  50. I may be a bit late joining this discussion, but the topic brought back many memories. I remember the effort that I invested in buying pants that looked grey but were not truly grey. I remember my former headmaster Mr. Williams sending me back home on the first day of school because my gray pants looked green. It is somewhat ironic that many in “their old age” are now trying to wear the same uniform that they were “reluctant” to wear to school.

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