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It is approaching eighteen months since Cable & Wireless Caribbean Ltd rebranded to LIME (Land, Internet, Mobile and Entertainment). The decision sparked a robust discussion in Barbados because the word lime in the West Indian lexicon defines a person operating in leisure rather than productive mode. The acronym LIME from a marketing perspective also misses a key element in the E, Entertainment. Barbadians like others around the Caribbean have been promised the Entertainment product since launch.

According to a BU source the wait for the E in LIME should not be for much longer. When LIME is able to deliver DirecTV and CBC MCTV will get some competition for those who are hooked on this form of entertainment.

BUโ€™s concern about the soon to be launched LIME Entertainment product is how will it impact the quality of the existing broadband service. It is no secret LIMEโ€™s broadband network is congested. Most subscribers to the LIME broadband service can determine they are being short changed by running a diagnostic to establish download and upload speeds.

What happens when an already poor ADSL service is degraded by the introduction of video streaming? Can customers who sign-up for the E in LIME look forward to an upgrade to the ADSL service? If LIMEโ€™s existing broadband network is said to be congested, how will streaming video impact?

Barbadians have been told if they have evidence of not getting what they have paid for they should produce that evidence at the Fair Trading Commission and seek redress. The willingness of Barbadians to meekly pay for a product for which they are being short changed says it all. LIME continues to laugh as they repatriate those profits to London. Why as a people have we not been able to generate the same outrage we witnessed at the Mavado and Kartel episode regarding the LIME rape?

It is noteworthy that Barbadians calling the customer service number 1 800 804 2994 located in St. Lucia have been encountering numerous problems with calls being dropped after navigating the automated attendant. Who can they turn to for help? Newly appointed Country Manager Alex Macdonald always appears smug and over-confident when he ventures to the media to make public statements. Another pretty face which a company is using to satisfy public relations.

Barbadians continue to be screwed by the utility companies in Barbados but who do they have to blame but themselves?


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53 responses to “LIME Entertainment Is Coming”


  1. Bajans seem to feel content to pay for mediocre if it is the only thing available. We get bad service and comfortably pay LIME every month. How will the average user be able to get the evidence and take to the FTC? How is the evidence collected? How can the average user find a way to log when internet service is lost?

    How do you prove that your call dropped out? How do you prove that your connection was bad? These are challenges and unless the consumer knows or is frequently told or reminded how to do these things, there will be no evidence to produce.

    My good friend Alvin Thorpe was laughed at when he introduced weights & measures in a telephone hearing but he spoke to this problem. The laughter quickly faded away when the importance of what he was saying sunk into the heads of the PUB panel and caused the applicant some discomfort. The man was way ahead of all them.


  2. BU has constantly opined that the FTC for what it represents continues to fall woefully short of protecting Barbadian consumers for many of the reasons you outlines ROK. Your colleague Chris feels people can just rise up against causes out of thin air. Especially against a culture of being passive. It won’t happen therefore it should be the obligation of government to assist in that process. In the same way people from the ministry of commerce can visit stores to check prices let government agree to place mechanism in place to inspect bandwidths etc and prosecute LIME if they are found wanting.


  3. Well David, I was hoping that some bright engineer or technical person would give consumers an insight into how they can collect evidence of poor service.

    This is another problem, those who know really not interested in sharing because for them it is not a problem…. Hmmmm….. I will try to find out how this information could be shared. I really can’t promise anything here. Too tight with me right now.


  4. I am a Bajan living in Canada. When I am in Barbados I am forced to use a Bell Mobility cell phone because I can stay in contact with cliemts in Canada.

    My Lime cell phone service is unreliable and internet service sucks because it is not
    consistent. I notice that the Internet in Sunset crest area is more reliable than in Bridgetown or Warrens.

    Bajans deserve fast reliable consistent phone and Internet service all day every day expecially from a company that started as a monopoly making huge profits.

    But Bajans are nice an doan complain tummuch.


  5. @David: “Your colleague Chris feels people can just rise up against causes out of thin air. Especially against a culture of being passive.

    I’m not sure this is entirely fair. My argument is that consumers will only receive the service they *demand*, although an environment of *true* competition is also critical — this is where the GOB has (in my opinion) failed.


  6. @David: “Barbadians have been told if they have evidence of not getting what they have paid for they should produce that evidence at the Fair Trading Commission and seek redress.

    One of the issues here is generating the evidence — it can be a non-trivial exercise in the “IP” (Internet) domain, and almost impossible in the Telephony.

    Speaking about IP, there are many dimensions to be analysed — packet loss, jitter (temporal inconsistency), bandwidth availability, and session limitations being the main ones.

    To properly monitor a circuit, it should be observed 7/24. I personally use a number of tools, the most important ones being “Cacti” for bandwidth and latency graphing, “Nagios” for monitoring, and “MTR” for packet loss and latency monitoring for each “hop” between two nodes.

    I could write an article about the hell I went through for a month for a client of mine simply trying to get an ADSL circuit working here… But then, I’d probably be threatened with another lawsuit….


  7. @David et al.

    For anyone interested in what can be required to prove to LIME that something is wrong, the following screen-shot was submitted to the *proving* that the new circuit was not behaving the same way as two others, and was exhibiting fundamental errors (you should *never* see North American IPs at the second hop).

    http://www.ideas4lease.com/reports/adsl/20090514_adsl_still_not_nominal.png

    The sales rep’s attitude was “if you can surf the Internet, then everything’s OK”.

    I dealt with two field engineers and two NOC techs (including their head of IP) before the problem was solved (turned out to be a bad modem, which I had suggested as a possibility the first day).

    It was only because I kept producing evidence, and refusing to accept what was demonstrably not working *correctly* did my client end up with a service which was usable to them.


  8. @Chris

    On your forgoing it seems an almost impossible exercise for the ordinary Barbadian to prove the case of degradation in their bandwidth. It begs the question though what about the Barbados companies who some of them should have the resources to take up this matter. Could they be paying Lime without question?


  9. Definitely the question remains, how can one collect evidence? Hire a technician? Is it that difficult? Are there tools, software that can record activity and quality?


  10. @David: “On your forgoing it seems an almost impossible exercise for the ordinary Barbadian to prove the case of degradation in their bandwidth.

    But please remember that according to the ADSL Service Level Agreement (SLA), LIME do *not* guarantee the level of bandwidth you are buying. So long as you can get packets through, they are technically delivering the service contracted for.

    But, definitely, businesses with in-house tech talent should be monitoring their circuit(s) constantly, and complaining if they see problems — particularity if they’re leased lines with meaningful SLAs.

    @ROK: “Hire a technician? Is it that difficult?

    It can be non-trivial — TCP/IP is a complicated domain with many dimensions.

    With regards to the software tools, yes — I listed the most important three that I use.


  11. Alex MacDonald pretty?!! David, I can give the addresses and telephone numbers of a couple of opticians if your eyes are giving trouble!


  12. @ROK: “Well David, I was hoping that some bright engineer or technical person would give consumers an insight into how they can collect evidence of poor service.

    I just had an idea…

    Please give me a few days to write some code. Should be good….


  13. @peltdownman

    Perhaps the adjective ‘pretty’ was used loosely.

    @Chris

    You have made the point repeated regarding lack of obligation on Lime’s part to deliver the adsl package advertised. We believe they have 3 packages. Why design 3 packages when the customer agreement does not bind them in some way? It is a point you continue to make and one BU refuse to accept as fair.


  14. @David: “You have made the point repeated regarding lack of obligation on Limeโ€™s part to deliver the adsl package advertised. We believe they have 3 packages.

    Please know that it is not unique to Barbados (or LIME) that for “consumer-grade” circuits the “package” is for the *maximum* bandwidth available, not what will be always available.

    I believe LIME have more than three ADSL packages, but when I went to their website to confirm this, I got a “500 Internal Server Error”.

    @David: “It is a point you continue to make and one BU refuse to accept as fair.

    But it is reality — world wide. Providers “oversubscribe” the bandwidth available. Usually around 20 to 1, with the assumption that not everyone will be using their full bandwidth all the time.

    But with bandwidth hungry applications like video and file sharing (both of which can be left running 24/7) this is not a reasonable assumption.

    If you don’t like it, try buying some “clear-channel” (AKA a leased line). But be prepared to spend some *serious* coin.

    The fundamental problem David is that we don’t have real competition in the IP space. No Local Loop Unbundling. No second consumer IP provider on the pole network.

    Why do you think I spent so much time on the pole issue during the BL&P hearing? TeleBarbados only provide consumer grade IP over wireless (an inherently limited and oversubscribed route), not the poles they were effectively bequeathed over which they provide commercial customers with fibre based service.


  15. @Chris

    Exactly!

    BU cares not about what providers in the N.American market is doing given that a regular Joe can buy a T1 line for a reasonable price. In Barbados consumers start at a disadvantage knowing LIME’s network is already congested with voice and not they want to add some heavy duty data (video streaming). The FTC and government need to intervene.


  16. @David: “In Barbados consumers start at a disadvantage knowing LIMEโ€™s network is already congested with voice and not they want to add some heavy duty data (video streaming).

    With respect, you don’t fully understand the situation or the technology.

    LIME will be providing the “Entertainment” from a “head-end” here in Barbados. LIME (and TBB) have *lots* of local capacity. LIME will be using Calex kit for the “E”. They are already using it for the ADSL.

    The new video service will (or, at least, shouldn’t, if they do it right) have any impact on the international Internet traffic.

    @David: “The FTC and government need to intervene.

    Indeed. I agree with you 100%.

    It would have be good, for example, if the policies written by the Telecommunications Act Revision Committee (TARC), and passed by the Barbados Cabinet, were actually enforced.

    It would have be good, for example, if the TARC had met more than once in the last two years, when we were previously meeting at least monthly….


  17. Sigh… Some language is *very* important.

    To my immediate above, please replace:

    “The new video service will (or, at least, shouldnโ€™t, if they do it right) have any impact on the international Internet traffic.

    with:

    “The new video service won’t (or, at least, shouldnโ€™t, if they do it right) have any impact on the international Internet traffic.

  18. ''''''FIRE'''''' Avatar
    ”””FIRE”””

    Its called SLAVERY

    we are all SLAVES


  19. @Fire: “Its called SLAVERY

    Not entirely correct.

    Now a-days it is called (in the commercial domain) “consumer ignorance” and “consumer passivity”.

    @Fire: “we are all SLAVES

    You are not entirely wrong.


  20. This is a really important matter, BU, this story about LIME, and it’s good that you raised it.

    On a completely different but much more important matter, did you notice that Barbados was national and international news within the past few days?

    Apparently, the man who was found guilty of hunting down an elderly tourist on a public Barbadian beach and beating her to death in broad daylight was given a sentence that some have condemned as unduly lenient.

    It’s astonishing that you, the BU household, failed entirely to report on this story, since it was international news about Barbados.

    Was there any particular reason for that?

    All best wishes.


  21. BU ‘When LIME is able to deliver DirecTV and CBC MCTV will get some competition for those who are hooked on this form of entertainment”

    Do you really think that much people will sign up? LIME’s service quality is so poor, response poor, the St/Lucia call people (not their fault) have not a clue as to locations, I for one will NOT sign up for anything more than I absolutely need from LIME.

    Unless the service is dirt cheap, in which case people may actually say, ‘what the heck, why not’, Direct TV and MCTV can watch with humour as it is launched.


  22. @Mash @ Up Buy Back (a “stolen identity” through misspelling)…

    Careful…

    Your BFP slip is showing.


  23. @Chris

    Thanks for the education, it is appreciated. The bigger point stands however, LIME can find investment dollars to build this E business but their voice, broadband and support service (contact centre) remain poor as Crusoe stated.


  24. @David: “The bigger point stands however…

    Indeed it does.

    I would argue that the *fundamental* bigger point is why is there not *true* competition here in Barbados?

    Answer me that.


  25. @ Crusoe…

    They will, in droves too.

    It is a Bajan mentality called ‘new niggers’.

    Just look at the cost of a Blackberry cell, most of them are designed with services for 3G networks, which would justify the cost. Unfortunately, there is no such network (functioning) at either LIME or DIGICEL.
    Tell me then, what the hell are you paying for?
    If you are lost, can you turn to your GPS on the BB for directions?
    Selling a pig in a bag is one thing….buying a pig in a bag is another (stupid) thing.
    That is what happens when there is no true competition and lol passive consumers.


  26. Despite all de lotta long talk, I respectfully suggest that you fine gentlemen are being careful to avoid stating a simple fact.

    Lime sucks and Barbados cannot have competitive online service businesses until it has a fast,reliable Internet service all day every day.

    For example Architectural and Industrial design services could be “exported”.


  27. @Hants…

    Thank you for pointing out a very important truism.

    If local businesses cannot trust their Internet service, then they are disadvantaged competing globally.


  28. So Cris are you saying in a nutshell that we will remain a banana republic unless some government along the way decides to take over the damn phone lines and let phone companies give us true internet access?

    If you are not saying that then let me say it.

    To the government of Barbados today, 5 years or 10 years from now.

    1. Buy out LIME telephone lines or give them free or cheaper access to use them.

    2. Allow phone companies worldwide to apply for a license to use the phone lines so we the people can get real internet service, access, speed and price.

    3. Not doing step 1 and 2 will mean we will never become a developed island/country with this monster (monopoly) over our head.


  29. I cannot even watch an YouTube video without it stopping to buffer several times a minute. I can’t see how they will make IPTV work.


  30. @John Da Silva: “I cannot even watch an YouTube video without it stopping to buffer several times a minute.

    That you either have a serious problem with your service that you haven’t determined, or you have a serious problem with your computer (or network).

    Do you run file sharing software often? Is your wireless secure?

    @John Da Silva: “I canโ€™t see how they will make IPTV work.

    I can.


  31. @Halsall,

    No, Dasilva is right, Same for me. My computer is quick, decent hardware, standard software, I run direct, no wireless, no file sharing.

    LIME Broadband is just rubbish.

    IMO, only a moron would sign up for their entertainment services, knowing their track record.

    Of course, theywill probably bring the usual loss leader stuff, as in (x) number of channels for only $(x), ‘way better than the competitors’.

    Haha. Good for wunna.


  32. To: All people in Barbados

    From: The Peopleโ€™s Democratic Congress (PDC)

    Wishing you a very Reverential Spirit-filled Good Friday and a very Blessed and Happy Easter.

    And truly hoping that the last days of Jesus Christโ€™s Life on Earth โ€“ the events involving his Betrayal, Trial, Crucifixation, Death and Resurrection โ€“ and even before these very tragic events the phenomenal life he lived โ€“ would continue to or would start to be of unparallel great guidance and importance to you in your lives as you pass through this wonderful journey on Earth.

    Peace Be Unto You.

    PDC


  33. I am a novice to this and most things, so I might be mistaken in believing that I have little trouble with my internet connection. I pay for the 1.5/512 package and I can usually watch HD videos on YouTube, Veetle and other similar sites, so I will agree with CH, that they could get the IPTV to work.

    Yes there is congestion, especially when the children are home from school, and LIME limits bittorent, but apart from that, I cannot complain about my internet service. Mobile is another thing altogether as they network cannot compare to Digicel’s. Digicel works where LIME cannot even get a signal.

    I have learnt to try and fix problems without calling LIME’s support staff, as most of them seem to be even more clueless than me and if you are lucky to find someone that knows what is going on, invariably you get disconnected before they can help you. I guess there is some kind of restriction on how much time they can spend on each call.

    The problem Bajans face is the reluctance, or inability of Digicel and TeleBarbados in particular, to aggresively compete with LIME in the Broadband market.

    If as stated, TeleBarbados has access to BL&P’s pole network, what prevents them from going after the domestic market?
    Is the cost of cable so prohibitive, it prevents them from even extending into heavily populated areas. I mean they run a cable from Warrens across Hwy 2A, how much more cable would it take to get to Wanstead, Husbands, Oxnards, Cave Hill, Rock Dundo etc.
    How can a company be simply contented with just providing a service to businesses that they can provide to many times more domestic customers? Is there no vision?

    When Digicel launches their Fixed Wireless, can they (TeleBarbados), maintain they current marketshare?

    When one considers that wherever there is a household with a computer, there is most likely a BL&P connection, and the same cannot be said for LIME, TeleBarbados’s MO is baffling to say the least.

  34. ''''''FIRE'''''' Avatar
    ”””FIRE”””

    Everything in Barbados brekking down. The civil service in a complete mess. Restructuring is an elusive must.Permanent Secretaries want abolishing;

    OVER 60S NOT GOING HOME .
    PEOPLE getting layoff,
    WOMEN CONTROLLING AND CAUSING STRESS
    oh me oh my what a royale mess

    now something call ‘Soca Royale’ at Bushy Park.

    where is -GearBox-ahhhhhhhhh ! aaaaahhhaahhh !


  35. @Pretty Ugly: “If as stated, TeleBarbados has access to BL&Pโ€™s pole network, what prevents them from going after the domestic market?

    Absolutely nothing.

    @PU: “Is the cost of cable so prohibitive, it prevents them from even extending into heavily populated areas.

    It’s not cheap, but it’s not prohibitive. Especially using a technology called “Passive Optical Network” (PON) — effectively a prism allowing 32 customers to be served from a single fibre.

    @PU: “TeleBarbadosโ€™s MO is baffling to say the least.

    It’s not actually baffling. It’s economics. Business class service is *much* more profitable (larger bills, fewer support calls).

    It is, however, *extremely* disappointing.

    Because TBB were given the second pole position, instead of a fibre-coax hybrid video / voice / Internet (“triple play”) provider, it means that Barbados will *never* have true competition to ADSL.

    Or, at least, not until Local Loop Unbundling is enacted here. This was to be the next item of business for the TARC, before it came to a screeching halt after the last election….


  36. @True Bajan: “So Cris are you saying in a nutshell that we will remain a banana republic unless some government along the way decides to take over the damn phone lines and let phone companies give us true internet access?

    I’m very importantly *not* saying the phone lines should be nationalized.

    What I am saying is that Local Loop Unbunding (LLU), a standard policy worldwide, which allows a licence provider to lease the “last mile copper” at the *same* rate as the Incumbent charges itself.

    Until this happens, and/or the pole network is available to a *consumer* provider, we will always pay more for telephony and Internet services than we should.


  37. @Chris

    Tell us more about TARC.

    Who is responsible for the slow down since election as you stated?


  38. @John Da Silva and Crusoe…

    You may have a bad connection. Please consider researching this, and registering a complaint to LIME and then the FTC if you see problems and don’t receive satisfaction.

    To start, download WinMTR from http://winmtr.sourceforge.net/

    Please feel free to “ping” against one of my servers in North America at research.ideas4lease.com for as long as you like. You’ll want several days of data to be meaningful.

    This will only give you latency, jitter and packet loss statistics.

    A bandwidth measurement tool will be announced in a few days.


  39. @David: “Who is responsible for the slow down since election as you stated?

    I do not who (or what) is responsible for the slow down.

    All I can tell you is the Chairman is Mr. Reggie Bourne, Chief Telecommunications Officer of the Barbados Telecommunications Unit.

    And that we used to meet at least monthly, but have only once in the last two years (technically twice, but the second was a continuation of the first meeting because the CTO had to leave to attend another meeting before business was completed).


  40. Barbados should have as good a Phone and Internet service as Toronto,Canada.
    One challenge you don’t have is winter.

    I have both Rogers high speed Internet (cable) and Bell Canada Internet (Phone).

    They are always on and always fast.

    There is no good reason why Bajans should not expect the same from LIME,TeleBarbados or any other Internet service provider.

    Bajans pay for service just like I do in Canada and they deserve the same level of service; period.


  41. If bajans can kickup their heels about anti social behaviour and get the government ear and attention. Then they can surely do the same for matters which affect their pockets.


  42. @Technician

    Please explain this point further if you can. Are you saying LIME and Digicel should be bringing in a lower functionality equipment to enable Barbadians to benefit from a lower price because of the limitation in their networks?

     

    Just look at the cost of a Blackberry cell, most of them are designed with services for 3G networks, which would justify the cost. Unfortunately, there is no such network (functioning) at either LIME or DIGICEL.
    Tell me then, what the hell are you paying for?

    If you are lost, can you turn to your GPS on the BB for directions?

    Selling a pig in a bag is one thingโ€ฆ.buying a pig in a bag is another (stupid) thing.

    That is what happens when there is no true competition and lol passive consumers.


  43. Finally one of the most awaited film this year was released in the world. Alice In Wonderland, which is the best adventure stories of all time is more attractive and grand format thanks to the cast is fantastic dimension 3.

    Starting from the dreams Kingsley Alice (Mia Wasikowska) at 7-year-old was first brought into Wonderland. At that moment he felt that it was a dream, especially his beloved father Marton Csokas (Charles Kingsley) was also persuasive.


  44. Anybody noticed LIME was the big sponsor of the CARIFTA games this year? Also they sponsored online broadcasting and on TV? Noticed the target market they went after in their advertising?

    It is their prerogative to do so of course. It is also the prerogative of our parents to make the right decision. Why mount-up debt to satisfy the material desires of the young ones when there is food to be purchased?


  45. David // April 3, 2010 at 11:41 AM

    @Technician

    Please explain this point further if you can. Are you saying LIME and Digicel should be bringing in a lower functionality equipment to enable Barbadians to benefit from a lower price because of the limitation in their networks?

    Quite the opposite David.

    Since we have the high end handsets, why not the high end network to go with it?


  46. @Technician

    “Since we have the high end handsets, why not the high end network to go with it?”

    When BANGO put the question to the Chief Engineer at C&W during the rebalancing hearing, his response was that they just made an investment in equipment (which at the time was old technology) and they were not about to upgrade it any time soon.

    It is my opinion that as the dominant provider, C&W has the market highly inflated.


  47. Exactly ROK….

    Both carriers have the market inflated, they pay cheap for the handsets and at ridiculous prices. This is technology, which develops at a fast rate and is available.
    When LIME was using TDMA, the standard was GSM.
    One would have thought that Digicel would have made a difference when they came on stream but there really is none (even though people would argue this).
    This is now 2010 and all there is in Barbados to brag about is limited EDGE but consumers are paying through their noses for services that are crap.

    How could you claim to be a leader and investing in the old technology?
    All this is how they hold the consumers to ransom, rather than give us some worth.
    Seriously, take a look at our network in 2010 and show me the benefits….stupse.
    Flooding the market with BB handsets with a Ms.Ram style (buy one get one free) was seen as a good deal to consumers but with an already saturated network, how many are actually getting good service?
    Last time I checked, you could not even get on the net to upgrade the same BBM.


  48. My Internet is back to normal in January after a near 2 years of lousy service and a maintenance check that didn’t work. What would have taken them so long to resolve such issue in the Greens area.

    I don’t know how this Entertainment is going to work but they need enough infrastructure, accommodation and set it up right to withstand such an oversubscribed network. I would rather prefer a real Cable company than LIME.


  49. What i want to know is when will lime implement full EDGE, let alone a 3G data network. the GPRS data network is stupidly slow and not acceptable in this day and age. the 3g transfer rates in the US are at times FASTER than our ADSL in bim. this is ridiculous. whats even more ridiculous is customers continue paying for this crap service. switch to telebarbados people!!


  50. @All…

    For the record, I received a letter from the Barbados “Telecommunications Unit” yesterday, signed by the Hon. D.J.H. Thompson, Q.C., M.P. dated 2010.04.13.

    “Re: Revision of Telecommuncations Act 2001-36 Committee

    “This letter serves to inform you that Cabinet has agreed to disband the said Committee effective immediately. However, as we move forward with the revision of the Telecommunications Act and the related regulations and policies under this Act, we intend, in the spirit of stakeholder participation, to invite your valued comments and contributions.

    I’m on eager standby Mr. Prime Minister. Please inform me how I might help move this important matter forward.

    Please be advised that Barbados’ “grace period” for telecommunications liberalization under the WTO ends this next October (read: 2010.10)….

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