A decision by the government to support same sex civil unions with legislation was shared by the government in the much anticipated Throne Speech last week. The government cloaked its support for the decision by promoting Barbados as being “in the vanguard of pioneering social justice, the protection of civil rights and the battle to ensure dignity to the poor, marginalized, vulnerable and dispossessed…is prepared to recognize a form of civil unions for couples of the same gender so as to ensure that no human being in Barbados will be discriminated against, in exercise of civil rights that ought to be theirs.”
The government stopped short of also recognizing gay marriage to avoid a battle with the Church and a society happy to be labelled Christian.
It is hardly a secret the blogmaster abhors the homosexual lifestyle. However acceptance across the globe, especially in so called developed countries continues to rise. Using simple natural law theory a man was born with a penis, a woman with a vagina. This makes it self evident what the creator intended. Some will call-out the blogmaster as being overly simplistic and this is fine.
The blogmaster has never gotten tired of David vs Goliath anecdotes. It is the mindset which gave birth to Barbados Underground blog in April of 2007.
If you don’t believe in something, you’ll fall for anything. I believe everything happens for a reason. If you are strong from within, you can will anything. I’m a firm believer that where there’s a will, there’s a way.
Eric Davis
It seems Barbados is about to release the homosexual genie from the proverbial lamp at a time when many countries are still debating the issue. The question that must be asked is why the rush? Is Barbados being forced to prioritise what is rightfully referred to as a wedge issue as a requirement to competitively sell the Barbados Welcome Stamp initiative? Is this a case of Prime Minister Mia Mottley because of an overwhelming mandate from the electorate in 2018 and a predilection for the fairer sex feels now is the time to force the change at this time?
The blogmaster understands we have to treat all citizens equally BUT there is something wrong with same sex relationships.
Barbados is an island built on traditional values, it seems we are about to graft homegrown values with those imported from overseas. How will the propagation work out for us? Only time will tell.
Horlicks!!
@ Quaker John
You have an argument on your hands with @PLT.
@ Donna
Somehow, this topic reminds me of the Natalee Harewood debate.
Some people who were seeking to justify why a ‘hooker’ should be a candidate in the 2018 general election, are now using the Bible to justify why homosexuality should not be condoned.
Yet, the Bible ‘frowns upon’ prostitution and homosexuality.
And these same people who are ‘talking’ about morals, ethics and laws, are the same people who would travel to ‘Murca’ and bring back nuff things and ask their Custom Officer friends to waive duties.
Or, they break the traffic laws because they have Police Officer friends.
Or, how about the girl who ‘pass for Princess Margaret,’ but would miraculously end up going to QC because her parents have friends in the Ministry of Education?
What about the people who brag about circumventing the normal application procedures to receive their passport within a day, because they know an Immigration Officer?
How many times do you have to be told …its not lesbianism if there is at least one guy watching.
@Hal Austin September 23, 2020 3:51 AM
“There is also tolerance.”
++++++++++++++++++
You touch here on what I see as the core question at the heart of this debate… what Karl Popper called the paradox of tolerance. To what extent should a free society tolerate those who are intolerant of others?
Popper wrote in The Open Society and Its Enemies “If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.”
So I will defend the right of Christians to believe whatever they wish to about homosexuality, but I will ruthlessly condemn any attempt by them to be intolerant of homosexual human beings by discriminating against them in any way.
@PLT
You are on about homosexuality. I am not. I am talking about values. Have you read or studied Karl Popper? Do you understand the paradox of tolerance?
PLT
Intellectual, you and Mugabe are running from pillar to post by attempting to empower the ideologues of the LGBTQ identity polity together with the White identity establishment in Barbados.
Why not see the dispossessed masses of people of Barbados as the ones most worthy of empowerment instead of pouch pickers in whose interests you are making these relentless interventions.
@ Donna
Question is: Who benefits a society more: A law abiding , productive citizen who is gay or a dead beat , womanizing father walking about attacking gays while claiming he is all man?
I vote every time for my gay brothers.
@Pachamama September 23, 2020 6:55 AM
“… you and Mugabe are running from pillar to post by attempting to empower the ideologues of the LGBTQ identity polity together with the White identity establishment…”
++++++++++++++++++
You are mistaken. Mottley and I are poles apart; she is a neoliberal politician indebted to the people who finance her political campaigns, I am a post-capitalist radical who is lucky enough to not owe anything to anybody.
The issue of civil unions is a sideshow. It has no long term impact of the economic development of the country in the interests of the dispossessed masses (about 5% of whom are homosexual). It is in the interest of all that we simply grow up, legislate civil unions so that we can reduce the discrimination against out homosexual neighbors, and get to the important tasks of developing Barbados in the interests of the broad mass of Bajans, both gay and straight.
@Hal AustinSeptember 23, 2020 6:51 AM
“Have you read or studied Karl Popper? Do you understand the paradox of tolerance?”
++++++++++++++++
Yes, and yes.
The Church has always been hung up on sexuality, frowning upon it to the extent that even within marriage women were given the impression that they should not enjoy it but must consider it a duty to their husbands.
So “decent” women surpressed their sexual selves to think of it as just a thing to do to satisfy their husbands and to fulfil their roles of baby-making machines to prove their husbands’ manliness.
In the meantime the men, even the ones in the pulpit, were leaving their modest wives at home and visiting the whores or keeping mistresses, where they abandoned the missionary position and indulged in their wildest fantasies.
Everybody knew it was happening. But what mattered was that everybody pretend it wasn’t.
I never forgot the day when an unmarried pregnant woman took her place in the Communion line. Oh the frenzied gasps and the horrified looks and the shocked murmurs. Because there was the PROOF that she had the sex that everybody else was having!
It is all about the show with these people.
And for some creepy reason, it’s all about the sex!
.
Somebody else’s sex. Their sex is fine whether or not it follows the Bible.
@PLT
I beg to submit you do not understand Popper’s paradox – not certainly as it is formerly taught.
Homosexuality has been around human society almost since the beginning and will always be. But it’s widespread normalization – and far worse it’s mass promotion and celebration is a comparatively recent phenomenon.
Up until 3-4 decades ago the majority of society rightly saw homosexuality for what it is: unnatural sexual behaviour. Nothing more. With the inexorable decline in morality and increasing humanism, adherents of the lifestyle ably supported by dubious science have managed to elevate the narrow issues of this powerful lobby into the wider public consciousness. Why?
Now two persons of the same sex can “marry”. An individual can switch their gender at will. In some places it is illegal to refer to a man who “identifies as a woman” as a man. This sort of bullying is becoming more common. It’s totally absurd, or at least should be. But this vicious aggression by the homosexual lobby is gaining more acceptance by the spiritually blind sheeple.
But where does it stop? It won’t. Continuing along this grim path there are increasing lobbies for pedophilia and bestiality. In California and Germany their voices are growing louder. Don’t take the Dullard’s word. Look it up! The Dullard fully expects that within the next 10 years or it will be legal for an adult to marry a child.
After all, if two people love each other why stop them right?
PLT
You so glibly and again located Black people at the bottom, no pun intended, of the totem pole.
Seems to us that regardless of circumstances Black people have wait for some other group to get satisfaction before our historical claims can be mended.
What is to stop your White friends from coming up with another ploy like this LGBTQ distraction.
@DullardSeptember 23, 2020 7:30 AM
“Homosexuality has been around human society almost since the beginning and will always be. But it’s widespread normalization – and far worse it’s mass promotion and celebration is a comparatively recent phenomenon.”
++++++++++++++++++
Ancient Sparta in Greece is not comparatively recent… nor are the ancient traditions of North American Indigenous people.
@Pachamama September 23, 2020 7:34 AM
The Black homosexuals in Barbados outnumber the White homosexuals by at least 10 to 1. Those are the people that I’m mostly defending therefore.
Dullard
True, but wait for some licks from reps for the lobby, unpaid as they are.
PLT
Slideshow yes. But one which will be around for decades. Next port of call reparations for the LGBTQ folks. Wait and see.
@ Dullard
You have to understand @PLT. The debate, as you rightly say, only started in the early 1970s following the decriminalisation of homosexuality in David Steele’s 1967 Act.
But it has changed incrementally until now, when even supporters of the gay lobby, such as J.K. Rowling and the mainstream of the feminist movement find themselves out of tune with the transgender lobby.
That is why I asked earlier if there is a line in the sand. How about the age of consent? About people in authority having affairs with their charges? The debate we have now is nothing like what it was in the early 1970s.
The argument about civil unions is simplistic and liberal, but for some we have seen it moved on and on. It is significant that some black Christians are baited by the more militant; people such as local registrars, school administrators and teachers, etc. by forcing them to do things they do not want to do, such as teaching subjects they object to.
@Dullard is right, the gay lobby in the UK is so hostile to black people, even to black homosexuals, that it is frightening. It is a dynamic movement, not static, and will continue to make further demands.
@Hal and Dullard, I am shocked to hear that the gay lobby does not support the bkack community vs discrimination. . A group that suffers same should surely understand?
People are a strange lot.
PLT
Since you’re so radical why always use Athens, Rome, Sparta as points of departure.
There are significant questions as to whether radicals like you should be as eurocentric as you obviously are.
Certainly, Obenga has taught us that your heroes, Socrates et al, if they really existed, and there are questions this as well, learnt everthing they knew elsewhere.
Why not go to the root.
@Crusoe
Why are you shocked? Gay activists are among the most racist of lobbies in the UK, even to black homosexuals. They can be vicious. The same about militant white feminists.
Someone raised the issue of race and homosexuality as minority groups. Wrong. When the government merged all the minority advocacy groups in to the single Equalities Commission, I said it was the death of racial discrimination as a powerful lobby. It has been.
Some black people like to underplay the extent of race, because they find it embarrassing. They believe if they have their paper qualifications that should erase being victims of race. Just tell that to our black university lecturers.
Ask yourself the question: How would I know you are black? And, how would I know you are homosexual?
Hal
No sweat.
He hasn’t researched any military history or he would understand what happened to Cassius Clay and how he fits in.
I have.
Cassius Clay was a victim like many others (354K) of McNamara’s Folly or Project 100000.
In 1966, McNamara lowered the requirements for draftees and Cassius Clay was drafted, a Democrat program.
The Vietnam War was heating up and men were needed.
He could not get them from the higher up and better off without causing a furore.
Even back then the Democrats were incompetent.
The casualty rate among what became known as McNamara’s Morons was 3X among others.
It was a sin.
Here’s what happened to Cassius Clay.
“In 1964, Ali failed the U.S. Armed Forces qualifying test because his writing and spelling skills were sub-standard. With the escalation of the Vietnam War, the test standards were lowered in November 1965[5] and Ali was reclassified as 1-A in February 1966,[6][7] which meant he was now eligible for the draft and induction into the U.S. Army.”
Why was Cassius Clay trying to qualify for the US Armed Forces in 1964?
Cassius Clay however had become in 1964 the Champion of the World with his victory over Sonny Liston.
The letter of the law could not be applied to him.
He was too privileged.
The only place that privilege could come into play was the Supreme Court, among the Brethren.
No one judge could avoid enforcing the letter of the law and take the risk of breaking the law.
Cassius Clay made his living by beating the brains out of an opponent.
No one in their right mind could accept he could have been a pacifist.
The 8 justices of the Supreme Court figured out a way of not applying the letter of the law to Cassius Clay while at the same time appearing to be doing their jobs and taking the high road.
Here’s a bit about McNamara’s Morons and its place in history.
It is clear Cassius Clay and 354K others should not have gone to Vietnam but he had to be found a way out.
After all, he was a money machine!!
The other 354K were less fortunate.
https://youtu.be/6p0mI9FpsZk
Remember this from the 60’s
Blacks are always looking for some unity of mankind. But Whites, gay or straight, see race first and so should we, without apology.
If you prefer historians saying the same thing as the song, you can listen to this.
What fascinating bedfellows… Mariposa insisting that “Ali use a moral suasion to stand ground and challenge the law…” while John in Mariposa’s defense calls Mariposa crazy by arguing that “No one in their right mind could accept he could have been a pacifist”.
And then along comes Hal to prod John into making a further fool of himself after John himself proved my point that the Supreme Court reversed his conviction on a point of law, not because they were persuaded by moral arguments.
BU is so entertaining.
Blah blah blah!
I am fighting for in Barbadian gays who are mostly black.
I don’t live in England and I can have no impact there. A white racist gay person is just another racist to me. Just because they are misguided does not change my position on what is right and wrong.
P.S. I notice those who think they are of superior intellect have now taken to quoting all sorts of theories to complicate the issue. I could pull the books off the bookshelf too but I don’t need to.
The issue is simple – is the homosexual born homosexual. I say I have met three year olds who display early signs. There is absolutely no evidence that they were trained to be that way. I knew the mothers. They were from two very close knit communities. EVERYBODY KNEW EVERYBODY’S BUSINESS.
NEVER HAPPENED.
Therefore we must ask – should somebody be discriminated against for the state in which he or she was born?
Nuh lotta long talk! Nuh distractions!
Cassius Clay got off because he had a skill that would make a lot of people a lot of money.
The highest level had to do it because the highest level is seldom questioned.
…. and they were Democrats!!
So the point of law also included moral grounds
Tired of uh smoke and mirrors
Without probable cause and a foundation to base the case
The case would have died reason why the Supreme Court intervened
@Mariposa September 23, 2020 10:04 AM
No Mariposa, wrong again. The Supreme Court ruled ONLY on a point of law that the lower court made a technical error in convicting Ali. They made no ruling at all on the moral grounds of the argument; they reversed Ali’s conviction purely on a technicality. The only smoke and mirrors is in your mind… probable cause has only to do with indictments, not appeals. The case went to the Supreme Court simply because Ali’s lawyers were paid by Ali to appeal to the highest court.
John has kindly laid out the research for you, although he very unkindly said that you are not in your right mind for believing in Ali’s moral cause.
Peter Laurie article posted on No Referendum blog is a good read.
Explains the paradox that is Barbados. When it comes to the topic of this blog he days pretty much the same as I did – that wuhnuh too hypocrite!
Says not days – damn phone!
@Donna,
Unfortunately there are those who get their excitement from nosying about and interfering with the lives of others.
Why this strange behaviour? No idea, but maybe it is how we was brung up. Who in de big house, who de master soup, and so on.
Or maybe is de book dat dem beat yuh wid, for being fornicatorous, all the while they committing adultery or watching each odder do it, aka Falwell.
The point is, is love dat make the wirl go round. Sweet love.
Alla dem who so righteous appearing, dem is de wurst. Drm is the first to get excited when the that gay scene come on the screen.
Control. Using guilt as a mechanism, sick.
From same sex unions to same sex marriages
Slowly the door is being opened
In all of the back and forth no one speaks about the social or psychological impact on the children lives which will take them into uncharted waters
Having parents who must explained what this all means
Sorry PLT, it’s all about morals, just different ones from which Mariposa is suggesting.
Cassius Clay going to Vietnam would have been a waste.
He would have been 3X as likely to have been killed and if he returned he would probably have returned with injuries.
His time in Vietnam would have meant it wasn’t available to his handlers to make money and the public to enjoy and chances were he might not return or return with mental and physical injuries and of no use to his handlers.
In 1964, he seems to have actually attempted to enlist but was refused.
In 1966 he became a conscientious objector once entry standards had been dropped and he was drafted.
His handlers obviously ensured his skills were not wasted and facilitation was the order of the day.
The law really did not matter.
Whether he actually was a conscientious objector or not was irrelevant.
“Why not see the dispossessed masses of people of Barbados as the ones most worthy of empowerment instead of pouch pickers in whose interests you are making these relentless interventions.”
Contradictory much?
Throughout this article Quinn is referred to as ‘they/their’ rather than ‘she/her’ to respect their wishes around use of pronouns. Quinn has also dispensed with what they call their “dead” former first name.
“When I was figuring out who I was, it was really scary and I didn’t really understand if I had a future in football, if I had a future in life.”
Quinn doesn’t like living in the spotlight. Yet as a professional athlete, it often comes with the territory.
But little provides a greater platform than sport, and despite being a self-proclaimed introvert, Quinn recognised the power of using that platform and of “being visible”.
And so, earlier this month, Quinn, a defender for Canada’s women’s football team, publicly came out as transgender.
“It’s really difficult when you don’t see people like yourself in the media or even around you or in your profession. I was operating in the space of being a professional footballer and I wasn’t seeing people like me,” Quinn tells BBC Sport.
Quinn, who has five goals and 59 caps for Canada, won Olympic bronze at Rio 2016 and played at the 2019 World Cup.
The 25-year-old remains eligible to compete in women’s sport despite identifying as transgender because gender identity differs from a person’s sex – their physical biology.
Most people, unless they’re non-binary, have a gender identity of male or female.
Quinn was assigned female at birth but after many years of questioning themselves, realised their own gender identity did not match their sex.
In an exclusive interview, Quinn tells BBC Sport how there are still “spaces of ignorance” in women’s football, their Olympic ambitions, and their concern as sporting governing bodies start to weigh up transgender policies…(Quote)
William Skinner,
One day I was making my way home after a meeting at my son’s primary school at which one of the three year olds I mentioned before taught. The children loved him as I did when I taught him for three years fron Reception to Infants A. I stopped in the neighbourhood where he lived where I ran into another former student of the school, unemployed and seemingly unemployable. A mini-moke passed by driven by a tourist. They stopped, asking for directions. They ought to be glad I was there because the road was deserted and when they pulled off, having received their directions, there came a comment that chilled me to the bone, “Thank you? I would like to rob yuh!”
This was the same young man who had just spitefully denounced the hardworking, kind and gentle teacher I had mentioned as, “A stinking buller!”
Gimme da stinking buller any day of the week!
I gone!
Breonna Taylor shot 6 times in her bed and dead – no charges
@Pachamama September 23, 2020 2:37 PM
“Breonna Taylor shot 6 times in her bed and dead – no charges”
+++++++++++++++++
Full fledged fascism supported by evil scum like John and GP.
The other student who I mentioned, I did not know from age three but I did know him by age 10. I was reliably informed by the other primary teachers that,” He was so from the time he came.” My cousin knew him from nursery school and she said to me, “Earlier than that!” He became very well known in Barbados for his Cropover flag person act and even had a much publicised wedding ceremony.
Later he moved to America, got a sex change and can be seen on social media whipping up mouthwatering dishes.
Born so! And happily he never gave a damn what people said about him.
PLT
True
@John
Whether he actually was a conscientious objector or not was irrelevant
+++++++++++++
If he had only said he had bone spurs……….
SargeantSeptember 23, 2020 4:09 PM
@John
Whether he actually was a conscientious objector or not was irrelevant
+++++++++++++
If he had only said he had bone spurs……….
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There were physical conditions which Macnamara relaxed as well as mental requirements.
Bone spurs are not on the list of relaxed conditions, obviously they were considered a serious enough condition to justify exemption.
Think about it logically.
Bone spurs can affect mobility which is fatal for a soldier on a battlefield.
So whosoever had bone spurs got exempted from military duty.
A bit about bone spurs
Sarge
Do some due diligence before you run around fooling yourself and others!!
peterlawrencethompsonSeptember 23, 2020 2:55 PM
@Pachamama September 23, 2020 2:37 PM
“Breonna Taylor shot 6 times in her bed and dead – no charges”
+++++++++++++++++
Full fledged fascism supported by evil scum like John and GP.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
George Floyd died of a self inflicted fentanyl overdose.
Charges dismissed.
Could very well be.
The legal fault rests with the prosecutor who over charged the 4 officers.
A fascist or a communist by definition does not believe in God.
I believe.
Ergo, I can’t be a fascist.
The issue is not the pain and disability experienced by bone spur sufferers.
The issue is whether Trump actually had them.
Judging from his propensity for faking his medicals and his weight (1 lb outside the obese classification lol) and his habit of lying about inconsequential things such as inaugeration crowd size (which you recently admitted was a lie) only a fool would believe he had them.
P.S. I would tell you the simple way how I got rid of my bone spur but your buddy would probably jump out and challenge the “medical illiterate” again. He has not learnt from the ganglion cyst episode.
Murdah! Bare mock sport in de rumshop!
Here are some examples of bone spur sufferers … heel.
Clearly they would not get into the military.
The AG is a Republican and touted to be Mitch McConnell’s successor.
Another sell out negro just like Tim Scott.
They are the only ones to make it in that party.
Any x-rays of TRUMP’S bonespurs?
There there are also spinal bone spurs.
And that’s how John would argue if the victim was Hal Austin.
DonnaSeptember 23, 2020 5:31 PM
Any x-rays of TRUMP’S bonespurs?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I have only seen my own x-rays.
How many x-rays of others have you seen?
I am assuming you are not a doctor!!
Down the rabbit hole we go.
Where we stop, nobody knows.
Down the rabbit hole we go.
Where we stop, nobody knows.
@ Donna
It’s amazing that some here on BU talk fancy about all kinds of subjects but they just can’t bring themselves to accept that being gay is in some cases a natural thing or what we call “born so” and in others cases a personal preference for intimacy with the same sex. There are also citizens who are bi-sexual. To deny our LBQT citizens any rights enjoyed by heterosexuals , cannot be right on any grounds.
However such hostility is not only directed at homosexuals. On BU they cuss you even if you just have a different opinion or if you oppose their political party.
“This is who we are“. A profound intolerance for anybody who don’t think or act like us. A long time ago, I was told by a very close gay friend, to be very careful with men who are extremely critical of gays. He said :“ Skinner, take it from me, a lotta dem gay.”
Many years later he was proven to be right.
Shite. You mean that this character John is allowed to turn every effing topic into something about Donald Trump and just like at dog racing, everybody is going to run behind the rabbit?
Mickey
I did not raise Trump.
I just answered the question put out by Donna.
Sarge is who raised Trump
Sarge is who raised Trump
+++++++++++
I did no such thing,I was replying to the discussion about Ali who was prosecuted for refusing to be inducted into the Army because of religious reasons and also asserted that he was a conscientious objector and had no quarrel with the Viet Cong.
I wrote that Ali should have used the “bone spurs” defence, …… who the hat fits let Trump wear it.
If it ain’t you and it aint me it mussee Donna!!
@John September 23, 2020 5:29 PM “Here are some examples of bone spur sufferers … heel. Clearly they would not get into the military.”
My mother had bone spurs, on the heel. Went to Dr. Leacock a white guy who used to lived in the hills of St. Thomas for medical advice. He advised very comfortable, well padded shoes. She took his advice. Then after raising nearly a dozen children, and a few assorted grandchildren, she went to full time time work from 53 to 66. Walked 2 miles each way to catch the bus, then worked on her feet all day.
Retired.
Lived for another 20 years.
Lolll.
She was honest and hard working. Maybe Trump is the same?
Tron likes to call people lazy bones. Maybe Trump was and is a lazybones?
Cuhdear BajanSeptember 24, 2020 1:35 PM
@John September 23, 2020 5:29 PM “Here are some examples of bone spur sufferers … heel. Clearly they would not get into the military.”
My mother had bone spurs, on the heel. Went to Dr. Leacock a white guy who used to lived in the hills of St. Thomas for medical advice. He advised very comfortable, well padded shoes. She took his advice. Then after raising nearly a dozen children, and a few assorted grandchildren, she went to full time time work from 53 to 66. Walked 2 miles each way to catch the bus, then worked on her feet all day.
Retired.
Lived for another 20 years.
Lolll.
She was honest and hard working. Maybe Trump is the same?
Tron likes to call people lazy bones. Maybe Trump was and is a lazybones?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mickey
It is the two brawling women, not a soul else!!
JohnSeptember 23, 2020 5:14 PM
peterlawrencethompsonSeptember 23, 2020 2:55 PM
@Pachamama September 23, 2020 2:37 PM
“Breonna Taylor shot 6 times in her bed and dead – no charges”
+++++++++++++++++
Full fledged fascism supported by evil scum like John and GP.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
George Floyd died of a self inflicted fentanyl overdose.
Charges dismissed.
Could very well be.
The legal fault rests with the prosecutor who over charged the 4 officers.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Breonna Taylor died in a hail of bullets aimed at her boyfriend who shot at the police!
Get your facts right.
Is same sex union still on the table?
Not for or against.
Hopefully, we polygamist get a mention next time around.