Est.2007

Barbados Underground

Bringing News and Opinions to the People

Brexit Requires Parliamentary Approval, UK Court Rules

← Back

Your message to the BLOGMASTER was sent

CONTACT THE BLOGMASTER ONLY

BrexitAlicia Nicholls

In its judgement rendered this morning, the UK High Court has held that Parliament must vote before the UK can begin the process of leaving the European Union by giving notice pursuant to Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.

In summary, the court did not accept the argument by the Government that its prerogative powers included the ability to make such a notification without parliamentary approval. The question of whether the Article 50 notification should be made, therefore, must be submitted to Parliament for a vote.

Read more of this post

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

122 responses to “Brexit Requires Parliamentary Approval, UK Court Rules”

  1. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    WW&C @ 10:27 AM,

    There is no statistically significant difference between Dr. Worrel,s estimate and that of the IMF. Remember they are both educated guesses probably taken at different times ,some with provisional statistics and some with final revised statistics. There are no”lies “only” truths” from different perspectives. I sound like Bushie nuh. When you are getting older you tend to pick up ailments easily.

  2. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    Bushie

    Your juxtaposition of the relative rights within the corporation with that of the government or corporate state is not advisable.

    At least rights in a corporations can be sold, used to pressure shareholders’ meeting, and so on.

    Within the animal called a ‘ democratic government’ citizens basically transfer all rights once an election is over and have, generally, no real means to influence the elected dictators. Maybe marching up and down like the Grande ole Duke of York.

    We always wonder why a population is to elect a government, in a so-called democracy, and then are expected to ‘lobby’ that same government, for an entire term, in seeking rights. How is that different to religion?

    And unless you have money to pay there will be no play, for most.

    So we are talking about exploitation ’cause that concept presumes that the centre holds good. And this is the difference between us. We think the whole system is to be destroyed. While you, like with Christianity, believe there is to be some baby not to be thrown out with the bath water.

    Until you come to see through all these systems being anathema to the needs of mankind you and David will be left to wander in eternal hope. That is a journey for which we have no interests.

    That positions means you could never see events ahead of time. Instead of a critical mind it requires an expectant disposition.

    What you fail to consider is that what presents as a flaw in the system is not. We see these things happening by design.

    In the case of Brexit, the system can move ‘leaders’ in and out to shift the responsibility to the people, a population which presumes a social contract existed through a vote, from leader to leader with a gullible citizenry left to wander.

  3. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Pacha
    Have it your way.
    One cannot seriously discuss the pros and cons of our admittedly compromised political systems from your reference point of idealism.

    The Judges would have ruled based on what ACTUALLY exists on the ground, and their ruling is a slam dunk from that perspective.

  4. Piece Uh De Rock Yeah Right - INRI Avatar
    Piece Uh De Rock Yeah Right – INRI

    @ The Honourable Blogmaster

    Your question was “Why have referenda if the will of the people can be trumped by the process (government) who invoked referenda in the first place?”

    I am often quietly aware of which fellers heah was bad boys at school and when they got in the streets of life, was fellers to be feared.

    Scenario for your examination.

    Dem gots a big bad feller at your primary school and he like tekking up people marbles. One day he comes to your game of “big toahs” to tek up yours and you find a bid stick (that you can hardly lift) with a prodigious rusty nail in it and give him to three to put down you big toah…

    Dem gots a bully at you secondary school and he does push heself in every volleyball game (especially when de girls watching) you breks a frutee bottle and tell he put down de ball…

    Dem gots a feller who is racist and he acting up in a KFC (during winter) you tell he dat he must do dat to you AFTER YOU COME BACK from de car WITH YOU HAND IN THE TRENCH COAT…

    Yes sireeeee while you really ent no bad boy David, you answer that question correctly, David Cameron was bluffing, and thought that he was going to win that bluff, he wanted to appear to be a Bad Boy heself and use the loss of the people at the ballot? to prove a point.

    He lost!!

    You do not use a bluff unless you got a 9 mm in your trench coat loaded with the safety off and a round chambered and you understand that if that fellow plays your bluff your going get executed or life for premeditated murder…

    1/4 century later would you do that shyt##e again, IN FACT would you risk any of those scenarios now? no, not unless you have the sanction of *** and then it must be in scope.

    Cameron got played, digital warfare and superior incitements and emotive strategies jes like what de Stoopid Cartoon fliers going do to the Demonic Lying Party augmented now by the BLP’s facsimile campaign.

    All over the world, the fellers now understanding the power of the internet and digital wars, no more bullets, or should i say, rarely bullets, more character assassinations and Weiner disclosures and grabbing dem by the pokkerts

  5. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    @Jeff C
    since I defer to your knowledge in such areas….what does the term “that once the parliament is properly constituted” mean?

    A referendum is calculated based on a majority of ALL voters. MP’s get elected by winning seats, where there maybe many more voters in one riding than another. Even in the USA as we will see, the electoral college transforms popular vote into seats.

    Hence if MP’s were to vote in Parliament based on the majority decision of those who elected them, we could end up with a different decision, than that produced by popular vote.

  6. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    The future PM of Barbados is focused on vendors. Very eloquent speech.

    De campaign start ?

  7. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    @ Bushie

    Lest be it for us to be idealistic.

    We certainly don’t like to.

    Indeed, most of the time we seek to engage on the level where minute redress is sought.

    But what we know for certainty, in the final analysis, is that no amount of tinkering will structurally change any of these intractable issues.

  8. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    @PUDRYR at 12:43PM

    Ha !Ha!ha! I glad enough that i did not go to your primary or secondary school. Or did I? Big tau somehow rings a bell. It seems as though you were a big vagabond. How ever sometimes it takes a little violence to bring some people to a Christian understanding.
    Yes somebody’s bluff was called in this Brexit referendum.

  9. David Avatar
    David

    @Pacha

    Surely it depends on how the Constitution is framed? What about those countries who recognise the need to include the avenue in the Constitution the power to recall an MP?

  10. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    Bernard Codrington,

    Once again, the background noise about Brussels was a convenience. The real issue was immigration, fed by the ten of thousands of people flooding across the Mediterrean, as I have already pointed out. That i why the rise in racial tension.
    Plse if you, do not live with the day to day discussion listen to the people at the coal face. Britain is not a so-called representative democracy, but parliamentary democracy. Parliament is supreme.
    Forget the nonsense about government in Barbados being based on the Westminster/Whitehall model. It does not. Silence is sometimes much better than talking nonsense.

  11. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    David

    Of course, we support all of these initiatives, and have do so for years here on BU.

    But even if we got them the system will find other ways to move the goal posts and we’re back at square one.

    There was a time when we could not vote. Now that we can, does it really have any meaning? Or the meaning we thought or think it should? The political class still get to do whatever they generally want.

  12. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    @Hal Austin@!:54Pm

    I agree with you 100% as it relates to” Silence is sometimes much better-than talking nonsense”.
    Was the issue of immigration across the Mediterranean an issue referred to the electorate in June?
    Where in my interventions did I challenge the Supremacy of Parliament?

    If I had listen to the people at the coal face all like now so I would still have a peck in my hand standing at the Coal face.

  13. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    Bernard, I am out of this discussion. To ask if immigration was an issue in the referendum is to show how informed you are. Immigration is an issue across Europe – from Germany to Italy.

  14. David Avatar
    David

    Clearly there a large enough group exposed by the Brexit vote who feels alienated within the EU. This group appears to be mainly the blue collar worker. This is turning out to be a complex affair.

  15. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    @ David

    White, middle class people, all over the world have been suffering for a few decades now.

    Black people know this sufferation well, but we have been suffering so long that we have gotten use to it.

    White suffering has been caused by a number of factors. These include the de-industrialization or the transfer of good paying jobs to Chinese and other slave labour camps; diffusion of computer to jobs people did hithertofore; etc

    David there up to 150MM Americans who are either unemployed or under-employed.

    There are millions of middle-aged White people living, with master’s degrees, sleeping in cars, selling plastic bottles for a living, maybe on heroine, etc. You wouldn’t see this image of America on CNN.

    These have been for many decades the vicious policies of Western countries. They have created a modern near-slavery condition.

    As a result, Whites in the USA, in Europe and elsewhere are responding by appealing to basic instincts – racist behaviors, xenophobia.

    We would not be surprised that should the US elections end in a win for Clinton that the economic pressures being exerted on White people boil over in White riots within the ‘homeland’.

  16. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    Yes it is a complex issue and what we see taking place in U.K and USA are the symptoms of this underlying economic dysfunction. But let us watch as it unfurls.

  17. ac Avatar
    ac

    https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/xtegh9-external-debt-in-countries-around-the-world?page=12

  18. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    Show this chart to anyone who says Brexit is the ‘will of the British people’
    Posted about 3 hours ago by Joe Vesey-Byrne in news

                    Upvote

                  
    brexit-chart.jpg

    https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit-leave-remain-52-48-voter-turnout-electoral-register-7399226

  19. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    Ministers ‘are preparing for an early general election’ after first Conservative MP resigned in protest at Theresa May’s handling of Brexit – amid fears more are preparing to quit

    High Court ruled Brexit cannot be triggered without a vote in Parliament
This prompted hardcore Remainers to vow to frustrate the process
Some ministers have responded by suggesting Mrs May call an election
This could allow her to increase

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3907356/Ministers-openly-discussing-snap-General-Election-Theresa-ensure-Brexit-goes-ahead.html#ixzz4P8eRCTTt
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  20. chad99999 Avatar
    chad99999

    There is no question Barbados is a heavily indebted country. It is in fact one of the most heavily indebted countries in a heavily indebted region. Jamaica, Guyana and Grenada are up to their eyeballs.

    However, David is not an economist, and he is not above posting misleading information. For example, this nonsense about Barbados as the fourth most heavily indebted country in the world should be ignored.

    Consider this. You can be easily misled by official debt statistics. If a country has an offshore financial services industry as Barbados does, it’s total external debt will be inflated by its private sector obligations. Those obligations should be adjusted away because they are usually not amounts owed by “real” Barbadians.

    So pay attention. Focus on the government’s external debt, which of course excludes the government’s domestic debt.

  21. David Avatar
    David

    Why dont you you up or…

    These are member countries of CDB to locate Barbados’ debt to GDP in a regional context. As you know the CDB has members from outside the region.

    Your point is that you have to be an economist to list the 5 highest debt tp GDP countries in the world?

    cdbdebtgdp Source: Caribbean Development Bank

  22. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    Chad99999 @12:04 PM

    Good point. One needs to analyze these figures and find out what definitions people use for these terms. Very often as you have done, we need to dis-aggregate the components of the national debt. The different components have different impacts on the economy.

  23. chad99999 Avatar
    chad99999

    David

    That debt ratio probably includes both domestic debt — money Barbadians owe to themselves — and external debt.

    The external debt figures would have to be carefully analyzed to sort out the private sector debt from the government debt.

    ALL DEBT IS NOT THE SAME!!

  24. David Avatar
    David

    @Bernard

    BU’s position is that by any measure you use Barbados debt to GDP is high; public or foreign. Do not comeback with a reply Barbados foreign debt component is relatively small. We are struggling to generate forex to pay the damn bills.

  25. David Avatar
    David

    @chad99999

    Are you saying it is k for Barbados to print money, borrow from the NIS and liquidate sinking fund monies?

  26. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    Are the temporary advances of the Central Bank to the GOB included as well?

  27. chad99999 Avatar
    chad99999

    David

    Shame on you for shifting the goalposts — the oldest of debating tricks.

    The issue I addressed was the size of the country’s debt. Stick to that and concede the argument when you are wrong.

    Obviously, the government is in financial difficulties. I have suggested elsewhere they should sell some of their assets and pay down their debt.

    But don’t keep changing the subject. This is not about NIS

  28. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/88704/matters-consequences-printing-money

  29. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    LOL @ David

    Skippa, before getting into an argument with “Economists”, can you do us all a favour and find out what the hell is an ‘economist’?

    Is it a science? ….an art? ….. a religion? ….or an illusion?
    When you work out the answer, you will also deduce the futility of arguing with them about things like ‘national debt’ and its consequences.

  30. David Avatar
    David

    @Chad9999

    Borrowing from the NIS does not count as government debt?

    @Bernard

    See the last Economic Review Jan to Sept 16. Why would the Central Bank exclude this debt?

    Government’s financing needs for the period April to September were met by using $326 million from domestic sources. The National Insurance increased their investment in securities by $91 million and insurance companies and other non-bank investors provided $4 million worth of financing. In addition, there was an $84 million switch from foreign to domestic financing because of amortization of foreign loans. The resulting money creation by the Central Bank financing Government was $114 million. The pressure of Government’s ongoing cash flow needs is reflected in the failure to narrow the gap between the Barbados and US 3-month Treasury bill rates, which remains at 2.81 percentage points (Figure 5). The gross public sector debt at the end of September stood at 108 percent of GDP, while the net public sector debt ratio was 57 percent.

  31. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    http://upliftconnect.com/economics-form-brain-damage/

  32. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    @ Chad and @ David

    Is it necessary for BU bloggers to be winners and losers? Or even those who are right and those who are wrong? I thought the purpose was to share information and exchange ideas. Obviously I am in the wrong place.

  33. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ chad99999 November 5, 2016 at 1:05 PM

    How about maintaining the goalposts but changing the goalkeeper?

    I am certain you, the astute businessperson you are, would never retain a financial controller who keeps screwing up the books.

    Isn’t that the major reason why Barbados has been suffering those many downgrades for the past 6 years?
    The international financial monitoring agencies have little (if any) confidence in the current managers, whether the bulk of the debt is local or foreign.

  34. David Avatar
    David

    @chad9999

    Selling public assets read privatization is not the standalone solution you know. Where are we on the global competitive index?

    http://reports.weforum.org/global-competitiveness-report-2014-2015/rankings/

    Also how are we doing with business facilitation?

  35. David Avatar
    David

    @Bernard

    it is not possible to be right or wrong with economics.

  36. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Bernard Codrington. November 5, 2016 at 1:15 PM #
    “I thought the purpose was to share information and exchange ideas. Obviously I am in the wrong place.”

    Quite!
    So tell us what kind of effect do you think Breixt will have on the tourism industry in Bim seeing that the UK represents its largest market share?

    With a possible drop of almost 20% in the value of the pound sterling vis-à-vis the US$ to which the Bajan dollar is tied don’t you think this must translate into fewer visitors and reduced spending in the local economy by visitors from that ‘Sterling’ market, especially those on fixed income budgets (pensioners)?
    Less forex spend in the local economy means reduced foreign reserves which means more pressure on the Bajan dollar to adjust accordingly.

  37. chad99999 Avatar
    chad99999

    Some random observations:
    The two most heavily indebted countries in the world, measured by the total dollar value of external debt, are the United States and the UK.

    There is good things about debt and bad things about debt. One of the bad things about external debt is that it has to be.repaid in foreign currency, often US dollars, which may not be easy to acquire

    Two of the good things about government domestic debt is that (a) the government can raise funds to repay the debt by selling some if its assets or by raising taxes. and (b) when the debt is being repaid the money is received by Barbadians, which means the government’s loss is the citizens’ gain. Everything is everything.

    Get it, David?

  38. David Avatar
    David

    @chad99999

    Two of the good things about government domestic debt is that (a) the government can raise funds to repay the debt by selling some if its assets or by raising taxes. and (b) when the debt is being repaid the money is received by Barbadians, which means the government’s loss is the citizens’ gain. Everything is everything. Get it, David?

    Some random answerback:

    What is the value of remaining government we can sell to significantly reduce domestic debt? What is the level of indirect and direct tax to support further increase? Get it Chad?

  39. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    @ Bush Tea @ 1: 11PM

    The short answer to your question is all four.

  40. chad99999 Avatar
    chad99999

    In a master stroke of pure genius, the government’s tourist industry planners have been pivoting to the North American market to offset an expected downturn in UK tourist spending as a result of the Brexit-induced devaluation of the pound.

    By courting Sandals, which has embarked on a US $150M expansion, and by pushing the Hyatt project they have moved aggressively in the US and Canadian markets.

  41. David Avatar
    David

    @chad99999

    How much of the money, in forex form, paid to Sandal’s makes it way to the Barbados Treasury?

  42. chad99999 Avatar
    chad99999

    David

    You don’t have the answer to that question and neither do I.

    Perhaps a Central Bank insider can tell us.

    What I do know is that Sandals has to provide Barbados with the foreign exchange needed to cover all the foreign purchases Sandals has to make to provision all of the foreign tourists it brings to Barbados, so Barbados cannot lose.

    Plus there are all those jobs and new hotel rooms created on the island.

    Winners! Go Trump.

  43. David Avatar
    David

    @cha99999

    You have not answered the question. What % of the reservation monies reaches Barbados.

    You do not know the answer to that question either.

  44. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    @ Miller @ 1 : 34 P M.

    It depends on what motivates the U.K. visitor to travel to Barbados. If he is a rich visitor who likes to visit Barbados he will continue to come. If his visit depends on the cost of air fare and hotel prices he may not come as often. There are high income pensioners and low income pensioners if travel for them is price elastic there will be a reduction in visits and spending. I will not do this exercise until there is a Brexit and until there is a change “in the goal keepers’. But a fall in the value of the pound of 20% will not translate into a 20% reduction in the sterling revenues from the U.K. tourists.

    That is a forecast based on my economic model of Barbados tourism Expenditure. The Model is not on this computer so do not try to hack it. HA Ha Ha.

  45. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    Another point ,that is often lost in partial analysis, is the fact that a high percentage of the input to the Tourism Industry involves the use of foreign exchange so a corresponding fall in foreign exchange use takes place .
    The devaluation of the BDS dollar is a political decision not an economic one. Devaluation is a tool to expand the foreign purchase of local goods and services provided that demand is price elastic . If it is not there will be no benefit to the local economy.
    Secondly if a high percentage of the inputs to your export sector is imported there is marginal change in the price of your exports and little change in earning of foreign currencies. The price of your inputs automatically rises.
    So for Barbados it is a tool which could reduce our Barbados dollar below that of Guyana.

  46. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Bernard Codrington. November 5, 2016 at 2:15 PM
    “If he is a rich visitor who likes to visit Barbados he will continue to come. If his visit depends on the cost of air fare and hotel prices he may not come as often. There are high income pensioners and low income pensioners if travel for them is price elastic there will be a reduction in visits and spending. “

    Clearly that is academically obvious. The vast majority of those who make up the ‘justified’ load factor on Virgin Atlantic, BA, Thomas Cook or Thomson tours to fill the hotel rooms on the South and West Cost cannot by the farthest stretch of the imagination be considered rich.

    These ‘ordinary’ UK tourists on ‘budgeted’ incomes and sitting in economy are the bulk of the visitors who patronize the restaurants, visit Harrison Cave and other sites and buy food and drinks at the Oistins Bay Garden.

    What we want you to focus on is what the obvious reduction in forex receipts from the UK (including the multiplier economic impact on the fixed pension income of the dismissively referred to returning nationals from Limey land) will have on the foreign reserves and on the ability of the local dollar to keep its head above water.

    The Guv of the Central Bank is rather concerned about it, shouldn’t you too?

  47. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    @ David

    Do you expect every blogger is like you and Bush Tea, and has an answer to every conceivable question? We humble bloggers can only give answers from our own perspectives. And some like me must understand the question , must collect our facts and sometimes have to run it through a mathematical model which very often has no connection to reality so give Chad and me a break .
    Furthermore if you are an “agent Provocateur’ posing as a blog master, we gine fix you.

  48. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    @ Miller at 2 : 46 PM
    The reduction of the spending of U .K. tourist is obvious to you but not to me.
    Any policy recommendations of mine are based on facts. I will not and cannot speak to the concerns of any other economist. I will advise on that if and when I have to . At the moment there is no problem.

  49. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    Devaluing the Bim dollar will serve no purpose as other than Liquor, Ambevs beers and various rums we have little else to export.

    I returned from the UK a month ago and was surprised at the hike in prices over a 6 month period,that coupled with the drop in the pound by 20%,a shabby looking island and few if any new attractions,does not bode well for any forecast of an influx of UK visitors.

  50. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Vincent you are sounding like the Guvnor of the central dank yuh!!

    You think that the value of our dollar is a function of what is ‘good’ for Barbados?
    Skippa, the value of the dollar is a function of the VALUE of our contributions to international commerce…. period.

    No damn productivity – no value.
    No damn Bajan ownership of productive capacity – no value
    No production output of interest to the buying world – no value.

    …and right now, we have ‘economists’ like Chad advising that we ditch our last productive enterprises in exchange for some quick cash ….and this after frustrating the productive sector by transferring ownership to ‘kicking Canadians’, Bajan-hating Jamaicans who only want Bajan security guards, ….and Trinis who are just looking for opportunities to promote Trini goods….

    Imaging GP calling Bushie the ‘Devil’ when so many ‘economists’ bout the place preaching Satan’s message nuh…. 🙂

The blogmaster invites you to join and add value to the discussion.

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading