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US based Barbadian Actuary Walter Blackman shares his views on the decision by Sagicor to redomiciled from Barbados. Sagicor, formerly The Mutual Society, always evokes emotion in Barbados given its coloured past. There is the intervention by Minister of Housing Dennis Kellman  which provoked a caustic response by Sagicor Group Head Dowridge Miller.  The decision by the Sagicor board for strategic reasons to sever its tie to Barbados as its domicile questions our capacity as a sovereign country to sustain successful indigenous companies.    How will Barbados challenge the hegemony of Trinidad and Jamaica as they cherrypick our best companies? Should it mater? How will our national pride suffer because of it.

Walter Blackman’s comment:

The difference between Sagicor and CLICO is as wide as the difference between night and day. You would have observed that Sagicor’s recent growth was achieved through the acquisition of companies, rather than through organic growth. From where I sit, it appears to me that Dodridge Miller’s focus was on the growth-through-acquisition process. Whilst he was “out” pursuing that objective, someone had to stay at home and manage the company’s operations. That responsibility seems to have fallen on the shoulders of Mrs. Pat Downes-Grant.

Pursuing a strategy of growth through acquisition can have a serious effect on a company’s income statement, balance sheet, and internal operations. Companies don’t naturally merge seamlessly so tremendous effort has to be made to rationalize computer systems, reallocate corporate talent, streamline operations, manage risks, and eradicate duplication and wastage. I believe Sagicor is still wrestling with some of these challenges today. Sagico Life USA has presented its fair share of problems. At one point, the outlook for the company was negative, but it was recently upgraded to stable after the statutory operating results of the company showed improvement. Acquiring Sagico Life Jamaica (SLJ) represented a bold but worrisome investment in the Jamaican economy. However, Sagicor has reaped sustained favourable results from its SLJ operations, and the overall financial situation in Jamaica seems to be improving. I believe the company has divested itself of its UK business.

Despite its challenges, Sagicor has a lot going for it as a company. It is adequately capitalized, has strong brand recognition, enjoys a strong competitive market position within the Caribbean, and seems destined to receive a stream of consistent earnings from diverse sources for years to come.
Not surprisingly, the last A.M. Best rating I saw gave Sagicor a Financial Strength Rating (FSR) of A- (Excellent), and an Issuer Credit Rating (ISR) of a-.

Sagicor’s history cannot escape the tale of colour and class that defines the history of Barbados. From the moment black persons assumed some positions of power and authority within Sagicor, predictions of the company’s imminent collapse became audible and frequent. The mere fact that Sagicor is still standing today, with an excellent Financial Strength Rating from A.M. Best, is enough for us to offer this Caribbean company some words of congratulations and encouragement.


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75 responses to “The SAGICOR Debate”

  1. Caswell Franklyn Avatar
    Caswell Franklyn

    No one takes Dennis Kellman seriously except the people of St. Lucy who votes for a doofus just because he is a DEM. That man is out of his depth in every subject.


  2. Someone in the DLP should muzzle Dennis Kellman. I listened to this idiot on VOB yesterday and I was aghast that one man could be so ignorant. I said…….oh no, you did not just say that.

    Kellman knew he was lying but as a know it all about everything except anything to do with his portfolio, he continued even when David Ellis tried to bail it out. Talk about an idiot.

    Boy was I glad when Mr Miller called. But that note, Mr Miller, will do no good…………the PM needs Kellman to stay as PM!


  3. I don’t know any of the commenters nor do I wish to get into a debate with anyone on the financial future of Barbados…! However, I will say this, if Barbados does not pull its head out the sand as a matter of urgency the Island WILL be ruin financially! I have the solution and will act on it in due course…! Here’s a clue, look to the East…!!!


  4. Fumble,

    Time for the reshuffle.

    Oh no, he is not going to do it now because we are asking for it. What a man!


  5. David,

    Did you understand Kellman to say yesterday that Sagicor should have challenged Standard and Poors over the rating?

    But he did imply that they should. Did he want Sagicor to bury their heads in the sand just like all the morons like him, Inniss, the governor, Stinkliar and Fumble rubbished Standard and Poors! To their own peril!


  6. Out of his depth; a doofus; ignorant. I love them all. All perfect descriptions for this clown who must put his head on his pillow each night and wonder if he is in a parallel universe to be a member of anybody’s Cabinet. How could any right thinking PM assign a Ministry to this man. There is nothing ministerial about him and he doesn’t even know when to shut up. Stuart has got to feel some measure of embarrassment at some of his Cabinet colleagues; but Kellman isn’t the only one. Quite a few of the fellows are out of their depths. Just listen to them struggle to get their thoughts across. He ought to remember where he was when David Thompson was alive.

    Kellman prefers to whittle away precious taxpayers hours/dollars on call in programmes with unenlightening gibberish. I have heard better arguments in rum shops and I say free him up and let him go wherever he truly belongs. He is a serious pretender with no viable solutions to getting this economy up and running again nor enlightening the masses. A few others need to go along with him too because all they do is run a red herring trail or perhaps I should say a blue peter shark tail.

  7. John Hanson 1781-1782- I SERVE 1788- 1792 BARBADOES. Avatar
    John Hanson 1781-1782- I SERVE 1788- 1792 BARBADOES.

    The difference between Sagicor and CLICO is as wide as the difference between night and day?

    Bull, both crooks , dealing in land fraud , Jeniffer King and the other lawyer are now stuck , No more land to get , They are also part of a slavery , 175 years ago looks so to us, ,, Now we can clean up Barbados with out them all over the place, God never made it that we needed either on of them to live in the Sun , Bye and dont come back,
    No more free land , We will be coming for it soon,


  8. Think what Kellman is saying is that this Sagicor has been around through downgrades, why now, why not resist like the other times.


  9. what i belive is this was a story well worth exploring and the opportunity presented it self but the low rated media bunch could not help but to drop the ball in preference to kick kellman a,ss bunch uh fools.


  10. @John Hanson

    Tell me bout the Sagicor Land Fraud nuh. Details please!


  11. A concise but good article.

    Unfortunately, Sagicor may just be one of many that will relocate. The issue lies in what a couple of people have pointed out, that a company’s credit rating is DEPENDENT upon the credit rating of its domicile, according to rating policy followed for many years by S&P.

    This rating is critical for a company to enter into agreements and also, to source financing.

    Thus, it is imperative that the rating be kept as high as possible. And a low rating will surely impact negatively on a company’s ability to garner business.

    Which is why

    • Sagicor is looking to re-domicile
    • more companies, such as in the international business sector, will likely do so
    • the ridiculous nonsense that some have been spouting that the ratings do not matter, merely exemplifies their ignorance and unsuitability for the respective roles.

    And yes, Kellman was talking a load of utter rubbish, but that is par for the course for him.

    It is high time that people need to understand that the Government spokesperson’s ‘playing to the gallery’ has little real merit, but can come with devastating consequences.

    Notice that the Don is not speaking as much, is he trying to distance himself for personal image protection, realizing what is coming?

    If anyone in that Cabinet realizes what this rating scenario means, he surely does.


  12. What was Elombe attempting to say today on the afternoon show? Besides the history lesson what was the relevance given the decision made by Sagicor to redomicile.


  13. Seems to me he wanted to take credit for getting Sagicor into Jamaica. 😉

    Other than that??? Dunno….


  14. Maybe we got the wrong Mottley that want to be PM….


  15. Picture this, in 2018:

    President George Clooney

    Prime Minister Elombe Mottley

    Yuh like dat?


  16. Can we have all the quotes from the MoF,the Governor of the CB and the Prime Minister in respect of their comment on each downgrade Barbados got.The one that I find very idiotic coming from a Prime Minister is his comment
    in June 2014,likening S & P to garbage.What an irresponsible statement coming from a Prime Minister of Barbados.And the foolish point Worrell made to the MD of the IMF Madame Christine Madeleine Odette LaGarde eliciting her guarded response that she was a simple lawyer and not an economist.
    Allyuh have square peg in roung hole oui!


  17. @David the blogmaster “Sagicor, formerly The Mutual Society, always evokes emotion in Barbados given its coloured past.”

    Don’t you mean its white past?

    LOL!!!


  18. Dipper Barrow once referred to his namesake, as not having done an honest days work in his life. One wonders what he would have said of Elombe.


  19. how to wreck the economy in 7 years? this is how you do it, blame the recession, curse the opposition and then accuse them of not providing proper alternatives, spend spend spend, lets not care what you spend money on. constituency councils, stupid housing projects, free bus fares u name. lets spend because you know, if shit happens then maybe one winter season of suppose increased in arrivals will bail us out. oh no maybe not, we hae a back up credit card called the nis, lets get money from there. oh shooot things looking brown, lets start beggin internationally even tho the loan sharks will poke out our eyes because ya know we r broke and our credit rating is awful. btw lets curse the rating agencies because they r all wrong, we are ok we dont need your assessments. what do we do now? we done tax de livin daylight outta everybody, leh me see.. we betta continue beggin and see wa happen


  20. Caswell Franklyn January 13, 2015 at 4:55 PM #

    No one takes Dennis Kellman seriously except the people of St. Lucy who votes for a doofus just because he is a DEM. That man is out of his depth in every subject.
    ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………
    Kellman reminds of one of the three dogs in Castle Grant plantation yard. Two big ugly english bull dogs, and a common breed mongrel. You make a short cut through the yard and the two lazy english bull dogs ,under the great house verandah, would keep lying down, while following you with their eyes. Not so when the little mogrel sighted you. He would make the world of noise, while chasing you down the yard, and dead set on drawing blood.
    The only difference is that the big bull ugly dogs would half heartedly join the chase,and attempt to reign in the mongrel ,as he was trying to show them up.


  21. ”The only difference is that the big bull ugly dogs would half heartedly join the chase,and attempt to reign in the mongrel ,as he was trying to show them up.”

    That if funny.

    And of course, being an ’eminient person’ Kellie surely can show the others up…

    Well, a smart move if not other, making a short yardstick to be compared against, one looks better, yes?

    Like if one is a construction worker and you get a new foreman, he asks who is your fastest worker, tell him (name chosen at random), Collie.

    That way, all you have to do is a little bit better than Collie. Of course, he may not know that Collie is slow and has not pushed more than three wheelbarrow loads in his life…

    😉


  22. David

    We were surprised at the Walter Blackman estimate for Sagicor. It seems not unlike the kinds of statements the company itself would make. In our business we call these part of a dog and pony show.

    We guess it’s better to avoid critical analysis by blaming the government or resting on a short stint with the company or by being a member of some actuarial association/society. With Bajans it’s always about being able to add or subtract or regurgitate better that the boy on the other desk.

    Blackman has avoided our central point of analysis – share price. There can be no better indicator of a firm’s performance than share price. And share price was at its highest around the time of demutualization. Since then it has steadily declined, in spite of over 50 acquisitions.

    This tells us that the company was merely acquiring for acquiring sake. Not to add value to shareholders. This represents the most egregious managerial malpractice known to man or mammon.

    You can talk all you want about an acquisition strategy, If that strategy does not add value to the shareholders it represents a colossal management failure. Mangers like these would last no more than 2 quarters in a real public company environment, not 15 years.

    More centrally, Blackman fails to estimate the current global environment and the implications for Sagicor. That he would mouth the rhetoric of the company is, in these circumstances, at least troubling, and in the worst case …………

    We will get back to this issue in the future, when the next shoe drops, for it would take the future to reveal itself before the average Bajan mind is able to capture it ahead of time.

    The managers of Sagicor are as much failures as are the managers of our government. Let’s come to the realization that this a a culturally bound phenomenon. For it is only by acceptance that an alcoholic can start to give up drink.


  23. @Pacha

    The share price of any company listed on the BSE can be manipulated by insignificant transactions pu through at close of trading day.


  24. @ Pacha
    Strong arguments.
    Would LOVE to hear Walter’s rebuttal.

    Supporting your logic has been the recent case of BL&P. Until sold, it was considered to have been among the better managed companies in the region.

    Careful analysis of its share prices however would show a continuing undervaluation and very poor returns to shareholders.
    Eventually EMERA came along and got themselves a steal – buying the company for about 30% of its real worth.
    In the few years since, this company has generated more profits for its new owners than it did for previous shareholders in the last 20 years …while it’s quality of service has declined.
    It is rumored that the reserves alone that were retained by BL&P and eventually passed on to EMERA, were enough to pay for the purchase. This is money that should have rightfully been passed on to shareholders …which would have raised share value and made takeover more unlikely….or at least attract a true value for the company.
    Well…”some” shareholders did make a killing….

    Sagicor is more of the BL&P mold than that of the Barbados Government. The problem with the Government is incompetence and bribery…rather than super conservative attitudes (or hidden agendas)

  25. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Pachamama January 14, 2015 at 7:24 AM

    Pacha, a very incisive analysis of this Sagicor debate.
    There is much more in the Sagicor mortar than a pestle of its falling share price.

    Have Sagicor’s profits been increasing or declining over the last 4 years?

    Can it really carry such large and growing administration costs without affecting the long-term bottom line resulting in the lowering of shareholder value?

    What have been Sagicor cash flow positions for the last 5 years.

    The life insurance business is the ‘food basket’ for savings to fund long-term investments like mortgages and commercial loans.
    After the recent financial meltdown and the CLICO debacle is the life insurance and pensions markets really growing in the Caribbean especially among the young, many of them unemployed with little or no long-term prospects of reliable sources of income to even think about saving?

    Is Sagicor, like many National Insurance schemes, about to face a massive spike in demand for settlement of pension plans and matured insurance contracts taken out by the hardworking savers and baby boomers of the 50’s and 60’s?

    If we can get some answers to those question we might be in a better position to informatively assess the ‘genuineness’ of Walter’s claim to Sagicor’s upbeat outlook and long-term expectation of sound financial health in an overall depressed Caribbean market that many international players in the ‘financial services’ industry have exited.


  26. Nobody in barbados wants to know the truth.Sagicor has the advantage over barbados and the “Truth”if it be told would decimate with a rippling effect
    worst than Clico.The rating agency quoted in the article also gave Barbados a top rating at the same time as Sagicor.


  27. Well seriously doah!Caswell calling Kellman a dooffas is like calling the kettle black and talking about Kellman voters wuh dam caswell membership is like a drop in the bucket when compared to kellman voters.


  28. David

    Yes, but Sagicor is supposed to be a global, public, company. The activities on one rigged market are never sufficient, and by themselves enough, to guide activities everywhere else.

    Keep your eyes on the ball and see the deeper structures which make the operations in the local market and they relationships with other markets on which the share trades as part a contrived circumstance.

    Meaning Miller et al, should be in jail!

    @ Bushie

    We are always amazed at your propensity to grab the meanings of events. Not only the understanding of the history and present, but with an eye on future.


  29. @Pacha

    Understood.

    The read so far is that we are seeing Trinidad and Jamaica marking territory and seeking to control the financial gateway in the Caribbean. The shakeout from it is the diminished role Barbados continues to play in the region.


  30. @ David

    Agreed.

    However, TNT and Jamaica are unlikely to be any less bad in the short run. Their longer term history has been worst, much worst.

    Again, our judgement is that the Trinidadians are using these circumstances to operationalize a long held geo-strategy.

    There shall be no winners in this.


  31. It will not be surprising to us if Miami, the current domicile of Miller and America the place for one of the larger acquisitions. An acquisition in which Miller stakes the future of the company, emerges as the compromise HQ.


  32. Reports are that Kellman has been reprimanded for his idiotic comments on Sagicor but in true Kellman style, he claims that he is right and that Sagicor should be punished for leaving Barbados.


  33. Bajans hate truth.only their version


  34. @ Bushie

    ”It is rumored that the reserves alone that were retained by BL&P and eventually passed on to EMERA, were enough to pay for the purchase. This is money that should have rightfully been passed on to shareholders …which would have raised share value and made takeover more unlikely….or at least attract a true value for the company.”

    Bushie again you are right.

    If one has ever bought a company one would know that getting one’s hand on the cookie jar, such as described by Bushie, is essential.

    When it comes to financial companies, insurance companies, the quantum of assets which must be transferred to the acquirer will oftentimes make the notion of a sale or a takeover counter-intuitive.

    Bushie! Yuh got good instincts. Unlike most.


  35. @Pacha and Bushie

    Do you think Chairman Tony Marshall and his Deputy along with the managers of the NIS knew about those reserves?


  36. @ David

    If they did not know they should have known. When a company is being prepared for sale, part of the valuation involves a ‘re-doing’ of the books.


  37. @Pacha

    Are you suggesting that there are NOT always 2-3 sets of books?


  38. @Pacha

    If we assume they knew then there is the issue of motive.


  39. @ Money

    There are legitimate issues to be considered in the valuation – how depreciation has been accounted for, the present value of assets, receivables, payables etc. Many others of course

    Money, we were amused that there were audited financials and that the auditors were not less than professional. LOL

    @ David

    Motive is a valid issue. Most times though it is a lack of courage to ask the right questions, to do the right things.


  40. Well, well Caswell Franklin you cannot even get 2 wild cats to join your union and you are washing your putrid mouth on Kellie. You only left the BLP because they chose another candidate over you in St Thomas. Kellie is very successful at the polls and you cannot even get on the ballot. You are a loud mouth, rabble rousing nuisance who does not seem to have good command of noun and verb agreement. It is’ people do vote’ instead of ‘people does vote ‘. The folk in St . Lucy are free to vote as they please. What would you say about St Thomas? Are those good people stupid to vote B always too? NO, it is you who have stupid pig headed ideas. All of sudden Caswell Franklin is some erudite guru who has a monopoly on sense, information, education and intelligence in Bim. To sensible debates, you are as a nagging barnacle on a fishing vessel dragging it back


  41. CBC TV is currently running an advisory about the port.In it we are treated to a glimpse of an area of old Bridgetown of 1955.It certainly looks a more vibrant,busy Bridgetown compared to today.Lots of traffic,pedestrian, motor and maritime.


  42. lighthouse January 14, 2015 at 3:37 PM #

    . You are a loud mouth, rabble rousing nuisance who does not seem to have good command of noun and verb agreement. It is’ people do vote’ instead of ‘people does vote ‘.
    ……………………………………………………………………………………….
    You forgot to tell him which of the brand name schools you have attended.


  43. LOL @ Lighthouse

    ….and if we wanted to get technical should it not be “…You are a loud mouth, rabble rousing nuisance who DO not seem to have good command of noun and verb agreement”?

    you …DO not seem to have…
    rather than …
    you …DOES not seem to have….
    “You” being treated as plural…as in “you ARE as a nagging barnacle on a fishing vessel….”
    ….which is why we generally ignore such shiite here on BU….

    As far as Bushie is concerned we could ‘do’ or ‘does’ …
    …de whacker going whack…. 🙂

    @ Caswell
    Keep up the good work boss.
    You gotta be doing some shiite right to attract this kind of attack, and if the worse they have on your ass is that “you ain’t no damn scholar…”
    BIG DEAL….

    ….wuh “Pilly” told you so fifty years ago…
    LOL ha ha ha
    whaloss!!
    muh belly!!!


  44. @ David
    Do you think Chairman Tony Marshall and his Deputy along with the managers of the NIS knew about those reserves?
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Marshall was probably not at home when the schoolchildren passed by his gate talking about that….


  45. It doesn’t matter Bushie, from all reports Marshall will be off to the UN shortly to perform his ambassadorial duties.


  46. lighthouse January 14, 2015 at 3:37 PM #

    @caswell

    this is well worth repeating

    Well, well Caswell Franklin you cannot even get 2 wild cats to join your union and you are washing your putrid mouth on Kellie., you are as a nagging barnacle on a fishing vessel dragging it back

    HA! HA! muh belly HA! HA!


  47. Interesting how the focus has become Sagicor and its strength or viability, when the issue is why it is relocating, which is fairly obvious as explaned and as others will likely follow.

    Smoke and mirrors.

    And if Sagicor has issues, as the strongest insurance group here, the others must be really be bad. Maybe that is why some of the others are very reticent to pay claims.

    Nope Sireee, the issue is Barbados rating. That is where the focus should be.


  48. The private sector is pushing ahead with integration while the governments, assisted by the people, drag their feet. Yuh either in all the way or out altogether.


  49. @ Crusoe

    What is Barbados?

    It is no more than the collection of people, companies, other organizations etc. It is the relative strengths or weaknesses of the constituent parts which makes a national rating make sense.

    We could also speak about the citizens and their relative less well off positions. Or you!


  50. @ Enuff
    The private sector is pushing ahead with integration while the governments, assisted by the people, drag their feet. Yuh either in all the way or out altogether.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Sir….. you still with this shiite?!?

    What the private sector is doing is called “conquest”.
    They are all about maximizing profit- and to do so, they need minions… …consumers… .victims.. ..brass bowls…

    Do you GET the difference between integration and SUBJUGATION Enuff?

    Integration is about an all-encompassing ONENESS…. (Won’t happen in this selfish world of ours)

    Subjugation is about an all-encompassing MASSY… (which is what YOU keep promoting for unsuspecting Bajans…)

    @ David
    Man Skippa, if Enuff don’t stop this treason talk……Bushie may have to employ some strong language …which was picked up from Onions’ sea-cat woman… (which she likely got from Onions…) 🙂

    That man Enuff ain’t going to rest till we are sold out lock, stock, and barrel to outsiders…. he DESERVES a few choice words don’t you think boss…?

    Shiite man, Enuff must be Owen’s son (if he had one….) ha ha ha

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