est. 2007

Barbados Underground

Bringing News and Opinions to the People

,

We Want to Know…

The following was posted by Artaxerses on the blog Notes From a Native Son: Reshuffling Sinckler Out of the Cabinet Needn’t Be Painful
Minister of Finance Chris Sinckler
Minister of Finance Chris Sinckler

Have we conveniently forgotten:

That the Minister of Finance and Economic Affairs, Christopher Sinckler said his life had been threatened and as a result, he is currently being ‘detailed’ by member of the local constabulary. He was reported as saying…..“On my way here I received a call from my secretary [telling me to] come back because a Superintendent from the Royal Barbados Police Force Special Services wanted to speak to me on a security matter… He told me that they had credible information that two people were overheard planning to shoot me.” What is the status of this investigation? Has the police Special Branch made any progress in determining the reason behind this alleged “hit” or the identities of the alleged “assassins”?

Sinckler’s comment that school children were being allowed to travel free on Transport Board buses as a measure of security, because they were being taken in and out of Barbados for the purpose of prostitution. Does not his statement contradict those reasons given by David Thompson’s during the 2008 budget presentation?

Sinckler’s revelation that he was reliably informed of a discussion held in a BLP secret meeting, which suggested…… should the BLP be elected to office in 2014, they would retrench 10,000 civil servants?

Will we be correct in viewing these comments as “red herrings”, the sole purpose of which, was to distract all and sundry from important issues, especially at a time when Sinckler was apparently under pressure?

Sinckler the politician = 100%
Sinckler as MoF = Reshuffle

202 responses to “We Want to Know…”

  1. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    @David
    I am aware that Direct Deposits are optional for pensioners but I was making the point that the Gov’t wanted to make it mandatory and that initiated a debate on this forum.

    The Banks in Barbados are mainly Canadian and It is routine for these banks (Canada) to hold funds on uncleared cheques drawn on domestic Banks for an average of 3 days, if cheques are drawn on Banks in other countries that period will be extended. The “hold’ may be waived according to how your account is managed, I believe that the local Branches follow the lead of the parent offices. Bankers can accept losses from loans going sour but they hate losses from bounced cheques which they believe are avoidable.

    Still, some of the personnel at the some branches (Canada & Barbados) exercise an overabundance of caution when it comes to holds, they place holds when the customer is long standing and have balances which far exceed the cheque being deposited, perhaps it is due to untrained employees or people who are unable to exercise discretion.

  2. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    Sargeant may be right, but interbank payments are done through the payments systems. Electronic transfers should not take more than hours – not days. These are cleared cheques, nothing to do with bouncing.
    This has nothing to do with jurisdictions, cross borders, or the man on the moon. The three-day delay is an old custom from the pre-technology days.

  3. David Avatar
    David

    @Sargeant

    Understood the add is that the hold time seems to be a default and not customer specific. Obviously someone like you with significant balances would not be affected by holds, lol.

  4. David Avatar
    David

    @Hal

    Bank A receives a cheque on Day 1 and uploads it at end of day. Bank B sniffs file upload on Day 2 and prepares a file with rejects/return cheques on Day 2 at end of day. It appears that 2 days should be adequate to hold a cheque. What do you think Sargeant?

  5. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    Three weeks after resigning.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jim-flaherty-former-finance-minister-dead-at-64-1.2605728

  6. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    @ Hal

    Hal you are absolutely correct about it being an instantaneous transaction that comes like clockwork to Bulbados from each of the sending governments

    The issue about receiving one’s pension on time is based on a few factors

    One: If the pensioner has not verified that they are alive with the periodic proof of life certificate that can sometimes cause a pause in their payment irrespective of whether it is a direct deposit or not. That is a manual procedure and requires that a letter be sent with the confirmation.

    Two. if there is an emergency or weather crisis in the sending jurisdiction on the days where the cheques are to be sent and they are delayed by that hurricane or flood then the cheques CAN BE LATE. That has only happened to me once in 20 something years though

    But here is what is the real issue perpetuated by our local banks against people receiving pensions from ovah and away, that the FSC wid all of their MOUs cant see because them is not the brightest nor sharpest tools in the shed

    The banks have been doing a little ting called interbank interest fates which are quite significant things, lending peoples money, generally in foreign currency, to overseas banks overnight and creaming off the interest on the pensioners cheques ergo late cheques to ole farts like we

    Wid regard to de lateness of Bajan pensions dat is not because of interbank interest tricks dat is because of “little interest” in unna Bajans perpetrated by the current band of DLP personal Bankers who, instead of paying the po’ peeples dem money, is personally banking it in dem personal accounts overseas like Michael Lashley and Head Boy Boyce and all uh dem tieves dem

  7. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    Artaxerxes,

    Here are a few propositions of this theory of NO-TAXATION for Barbados, ie., our theory of the evolution towards a post-TAXATION society for this country.

    1) TAXATION is THEFT

    2) All THEFT is WRONG and EVIL

    3) TAXATION is WRONG and EVIL

    4) All THEFT is ILLEGAL and UNLAWFUL

    5) TAXATION is an ILLEGAL and UNLAWFUL GOVERNMENTAL IMPOSITION

    6) TAXATION is a fundamental VIOLATION of a CITIZEN’S RIGHTS to FREEDOM of USE of PROPERTY for peaceful, beneficial civil, social, material financial purposes.

    7) TAXATION is FASCISTIC and TOTALITARIANISTIC

    8) TAXATION is absolutely anti-PRODUCTIVE

    9) TAXATION is in itself anti-TAXATION

    10) TAXATION is NOT money

    11) TAXATION is NOT revenue

    PDC

  8. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    @ Piece

    You are right. The banks are illegally making money on people’s money. But they can get away with it because the FSC are civil servants with little knowledge of banks, apart from being customers.
    I have said here before and say again, banks take their customers apart. And it is no good fining them like in the US, because they will eventually pass those fines back to their clients. We are the sods who pay, while the executives get their bonuses..

  9. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    @Hal
    The technology may be new but some “Back Office’ processes are still manual, unlike a cheque deposited at a teller which is cleared same day, cheques deposited via ATM are not processed immediately and that’s why the three day “hold’ is still prevalent.

    Speaking of technology CIBC in Canada has a new process where you can take a picture of a cheque with your cell and deposit it to your account. Not sure how you dispose of the cheque afterwards or what happens if the cheque “bounces” but hard copies of cheques are not exchanged by the Banks anymore, customers can receive a microfiche (for a fee).

    @David
    See above para 1, even if it is returned on “Day 2” it still has to be debited back to the account on “Day 3”.

  10. David Avatar
    David

    @Sargeant

    Understood.

  11. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    Artaxerxes,

    The theory of NO-TAXATION for Barbados exists OUTSIDE of the local social, political, material and financial phenomena whose variations in conduct will be engineered by a CERTAIN FUTURE COALITIONAL REGIME and the relevant many others carrying out of the hypotheses falling within the theory itself.

    Thereafter, such variations in general conduct – which will hitherto have to be substantially described and explained by the theory – will also either present opportunities for giving statistical survey evidence etc to confirm or disconfirm – support or not – many of the intended results of the carrying out of the testing of the hypotheses, or be borne out by the statistical survey evidence to confirm or disconfirm many of the intended results of the carrying out of the hypotheses.

    Also, such a theory exists OUTSIDE of any country or region of this world – successfully or not – undertaking to test any testable hypotheses of the theory itself.

    By making no mention in your 1.47 pm, April 10, 2014 blog of the fact of what the hypotheses would be, shows that, although you are fairly correct in the latter half of your statements of the blog, you are still not grounding your comments closer to reality than being yourself theoretical, since we have already identified in earlier posts on here what we will be implementing.

    So the tests will really centre around the implementation of those strategies/programs as alternatives to TAXATION.

    PDC

  12. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    @ PDC

    “By making no mention in your 1.47 pm, April 10, 2014 blog of the fact of what the hypotheses would be, shows that, although you are fairly correct in the latter half of your statements of the blog, you are still not grounding your comments closer to reality than being yourself theoretical, since we have already identified in earlier posts on here what we will be implementing.”

    As I have stated previously, I have absolutely no problem with your NO TAXATION policy. Surely you must agree that I have to be theoretical because I have not seen your “earlier posts” and those I have seen, I am unable (and unfortunately so) to understand what you have articulated so far.

    However, from what I have seen and interpreted, it seems to me that the underlying factors in your policies are privatization and moral suasion. If we use public transport as an example, it seems that PDC is relying on an individual or a group of individuals who are willing to operate the Transport Board and service ALL routes at current bus fares. Whereby this individual(s) would subsidize operations as is currently done by the government as a social good or as a contribution to society.

    In essence, you seem to be relying on the wealthy to pool their resources in an effort to manage this island’s resources and provide social services. If I am correct, it sounds somewhat similar to what I read in “Chapter II. Proletarians and Communists” the Communist Manifesto, by Karl Heinrich Marx [I’m correct this time].

    Marx begins this chapter by declaring that communists have no interests apart from the interests of the working class as a whole. Communists are distinguished from other socialist parties [DLP or BLP] by focusing solely on the common interests of all workers and not the interests of any single national movement. They appreciate the historical forces that compel the progress of their class and help lead the proletariat to fulfill their destiny.
    He also notes that capital is a social product, that is, capital only exists within some social system. The result of this is that capital is not a personal but a social power. Making property public then, as the communist wants to do, is not changing the private to the social; it is only modifying its already inherent social character.

  13. David Avatar
    David

    A long time ago on BU PDC was asked to disprove what was described as their null hypothesis. Soumds familiar PDC?

  14. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    PDC is a think tank.

    We are still waiting for the PDC political party to run in an election.

    We waiting PDC.

  15. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    Artaxerxes,

    You said: “However, from what I have seen and interpreted, it seems to me that the underlying factors of your policies are privatization and moral sausion”.

    The core and fundamental moral ideological philosophical political and other principles of our NO-TAXATION theory form the foundation of the theory itself.

    A few of these principles are:

    1) The fact is that this TAXATION system in Barbados has been founded on deep rooted immorality, theft, fascism, totalitarianism, etc. As such, it continues to cause substantial ideological, psychological, social, political, material and financial damage destruction to the well-being, growth and development of the people of this country, and to the productive the export and other commercial sectors of it. Thus, in view of all the evidence of the colossal damage destruction it has been doing to the aforesaid, all rational educational political legal and other strategies, policies and programs will continue to be put in place – where applicable – at first, by the PDC, and where applicable – then later, by a certain future coalitional regime of this country and of which the PDC will be part – to help secure its ABOLITION, and to help bring about – in its place – new or improved strategies and methods for the government achieving greater and fairer access to money to settle its own bills, and for the government achieving greater of its own revenue from out of the commercial processes of the country and beyond.

    2) The fact is that the government – as like any other social institution in the country – must itself adhere to the rule of the law. The government (executive/legislature) cannot reasonably logically be enacting laws against theft – thereby continuing to rightly make it a crime in this country – and furthermore building too on what common law rules there would have been against theft – and yet still continue to be EVILLY STEALING ROBBING (TAXING) the relevant individuals, businesses and other entities of countless portions of their remuneration properties. Hence, a certain future coalitional government of Barbados and of which the PDC shall be part shall commit itself to full adherence to the rule of law by ensuring that laws are passed ABOLISHING TAXATION in this country.

    3) The government must make the greatest possible use of money in the greatest possible number of cases. Money is one of the greatest inventions in the commercial financial world. And by that very token too it has been long helped by millions worldwide to become a very indispensible financial commodity, and one too that must – for whatever purposes – be collected in whatever agreed amounts by whomsoever on the basis of the giving of whatever agreed amounts of incomes and payments by the relevant customers to whom so ever, and from whom so ever too under the same contracts ought to go to the relevant customers what ever agreed amounts of goods or whatever agreed amounts qualities of use of services. Thus, government cannot reasonably have so many qualified and experienced personnel under its wings, have so many strategic assets and facilities under its control, have so many lands under it control, and yet continue to fail miserably at coming by the maximum amounts of money that it should otherwise have been deriving from the maximum amounts of incomes and payments that should otherwise have been coming from customers making use of those assets, buildings, lands, etc. Indeed, whilst the government ensures these massive failings, it – at the same time – continues to steal rob from the remunerations of those relevant people, businesses and others entities, which – though having fewer assets, buildings, lands individually under their control than the government – have been in the main trying – for various reasons – to get as many remunerations/money as possible, but which mainly eventually do experience the government forcing them to hand over many/portions of their remunerations to it, as a result of this evil TAXATION system. To make sure that government makes the greatest possible use of money in the greatest possible number of cases, a certain future coalitional government of this country and of which the PDC shall be part will not only make sure that the government makes far, far greater use of money than now, by its banning of the writing of government checks, by its setting up of a National Institutional Productive Money Transfer Scheme, and its setting up of a National Institutional Non-Productive Money Transfer Scheme – both of which will be primarily dealing with actual money –
    but also by its making sure it becomes a more active more aggressive more responsible player in the local overseas commercial markets in terms of its using many assets, buildings, lands, goods and services under its control to get far, far greater revenue than now.

    So, Artaxerxes, given these three outlines, it is clear that privatization will not be an important plank in our NO-TAXATION policy, as much as increased commercialization of government enterprises will be, and that moral sausion will not be an important plank in this same policy that will be derived from our theoretical approach towards the evolution of a post-TAXATION society for Barbados, as much as the use of legislation/regulations, etc., will be in giving substantial effect to many of the moral, ideological, philosophical, political and other principles of our NO-TAXATION Theory.

    So there you go.

    PDC

  16. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    Hal Austin,

    Yes, and we are preparing for the next general elections.

    Hants,

    We are NOT a think thank.

    PDC

  17. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    @Well, Well “Well Well April 9, 2014 at 11:06 AM “Hal…….yeah, I understand from a friend who lived in England for decades when she receives her check and takes it to the bank in Barbados, they want to keep the funds for 3 months before it’s cleared without caring about her health, well-being and the fact that she has bills to pay and food to buy…..that is unconscionable.”

    This is true. I have a friend who receives a tiny (less than $150.00 per month) pension cheque from Canada a resource rich first world country. First Caribbean said that they would have to hold the check for 6 weeks to ensure that it cleared. The friend has been banking at First Caribbean, and its predesessor CIBC for more than 40 years, had a CIBC mortgage which was paid off in full and on time. Owns his own home. The customer has a First Caribbean account. The customer has multiple pieces of current government picture ID’s (driver’s licence, passport, etc.)

    He went next door to Scotia Bank (literally next door). Scotia Bank cashed the cheque immediately.

    I am not sure what determines First Caribbean’s policy.

    Do they really believe that a country as resource rich as Canada is not good for<$150.00?

    Do they really believe that their customer of 40+ years in untrustworthy?

  18. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    But Scotia Bank is not without sin. Recently relatives sent a bank draft with which to pay the property tax. Scotia Bank said they would have to hold the draft for 6 weeks. And that they did. They did not release the funds even half an hour early.

    I don’t believe that the the bank draft took 6 weeks to clear.

    The Central Bank should instruct the banks to release the funds to the customer’s account as soon as the draft ACTUALLY clears.

    I believe that the banks prolong the process in order to make money for themselves, and that they don’t care that the customer is deprived of his rightful money.

    And yes I am a Scotia Bank customer of more than 12 years. My pay cheque is deposited there 12 times each year.

  19. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    @Sargeant April 11, 2014 at 9:41 AM “a cheque deposited at a teller which is cleared same day, cheques deposited via ATM are not processed immediately and that’s why the three day “hold’ is still prevalent.”

    And why can’t banks clear their ATM’s and the monies within several times a day? Since the 19th century the post office has managed to clear mailboxes multiple times a day. Why can’t a bank clear an ATM, especially one that is located on its own premises every 2 hours or so?

    If they don’t have enough staff, then hire some more people. The banks are making enough money that they can afford to hire more staff in order to work efficiently.

  20. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    Giving some horse and buggy days bull sh!t excuse just ain’t cutting it in the 21st century.

  21. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    Since Barbados is not a natural resource country (i.e we don’t have a whole lotta oil, gas, etc. to sell to others) I don’t get the PDC no taxes for anybody theory. Although to tell the truth I really like the idea. The no taxes thing almost mek me vote PDC last election.

    David can you ask PDC to explain the no taxes theory again?

    In real simple English this time.

  22. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    @Hants April 11, 2014 at 4:21 PM “PDC is a think tank. We are still waiting for the PDC political party to run in an election”

    Dear Hants: PDC ran candidates in the last 2 elections. Alas for PDC (and for me, since I was looking forward to the no taxation thingy) the total number of votes the party received totalled somewhat less than one dozen.

  23. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    To the person behind the pseudonym, Simple Simon

    Thanks for taking part in this very historic and revolutionary debate on BU.

    However, there is absolutely no relationship between TAXATION in a country, and the mineral or convertible resources endowments of that country.

    TAXATION is THEFT.

    TAXATION is the willful and dishonest expropriation by the government of Barbados of countless portions of the remuneration properties of the relevant individuals businesses and other entities in this country (and) with the intention of the said government of Barbados permanently depriving the owners of those portions of their remuneration properties.

    A serious criminological psychological/psychiatric assessment has to be done or carried by local criminologists and psychologists/psychiatrists to find out why governments of Barbados (mere people) have been constantly STEALING/ROBBING the relevant citizens, businesses and other entities of portions of their own remunerations; why persons aspire to get into governmental office; what (money) is within or without government that they wish to corruptly share with some of other people, or what corrupt covert schemes they wish to be a part of that seriously involves money; why they create electoral political groups, or become part of electoral political groups to facilitate their quest to be elected into the House of Assembly and, if possibly so, to be part of Cabinet of the government of this country.

    Perhaps some of the results or findings would show that, even though they hide behind the veil of doing things on the so-called behalf of the people or in their names, they are not much characteristically attitudinally different from those that are classified as pilfers, kleptomaniacs, thieves, robbers, frauds, and who ever else of that class are dealt with by the criminal justice system in Barbados.

    So, Simple Simon focus must be put on those and other relevant things in finding out why really this wicked evil TAXATION system has been continued even though it has clearly been founded on immorality, theft, fascism, totalitarianism, etc.

    For, the USA is a very mineral and convertible resources rich country. So is South Africa, Guyana, etc., yet they have evil wicked robbing fascist TAXATION systems. Japan, Barbados do not have many mineral and convertible resources endowments, yet they have evil wicked robbing fascist TAXATION systems.

    Too, for your information, do a research on the Xeer legal system and see what it says.

    So, right away you must see that the persons who are behind them share evil, wicked, robbing, fascist motivations and attitudes among themselves in respect of their being substantially involved in these criminal enterprises.

    PDC

  24. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    To tell the truth Bushie is growing tired of the lotta shiite PDC is talking bout taxation now….
    What theft what?!
    “Taxation is conceptually the system used by a central government to pass on the cost of providing services and benefits to the members of that society. Services which are vital and necessary to the well-being of that society.” (Bushie, Just wake up, April 2014)

    What the hell is evil about that?… when we voted for the people doing the spending and the taxing? It is only evil when UNLAWFUL governments impose such taxes and when they are onerous.

    If we have governments who are doing shiite with the money ….like wasting it, theiving it, losing it or coming up with stupid illogical taxes to fund fly-by-night schemes like Sandals and the CAHILL project, then THAT shiite is EVIL.

    Instead of constantly talking balls about evil taxation, PDC should spend more time on the part about “DOWN WITH THE DAMN DLP AND THE BLASTED BLP”….and who should be responsible for PROPERLY managing the tax system instead….
    …based on the level of logic so far, it SURELY can’t be them…
    Steupssss

  25. David Avatar
    David

    @Bush Tea

    Also the message of PDC does not resonate with many because we know that it does not make sense. Imagine political aspirants preaching a message of no taxation and those listening cannot understand or support.

  26. Caswell Franklyn Avatar
    Caswell Franklyn

    Bushie

    Follow my lead, when I see anything written by PDC and AC, I just scroll down or if I am using the iPad, I hit DELETE.

    >

  27. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    To the person behind the pseudonym, Simple Simon

    Thanks for taking part in this very historic and revolutionary debate on BU.

    However, there is absolutely no relationship between TAXATION in a country, and the mineral or convertible resources endowments of that country.

    TAXATION is THEFT.

    TAXATION is the willful and dishonest expropriation by the government of Barbados of countless portions of the remuneration properties of the relevant individuals businesses and other entities in this country (and) with the intention of the said government of Barbados permanently depriving the owners of those portions of their remuneration properties.

    A serious criminological psychological/psychiatric assessment has to be done or carried by local criminologists and psychologists/psychiatrists to find out why governments of Barbados (mere people) have been constantly STEALING/ROBBING the relevant citizens, businesses and other entities of portions of their own remunerations; why persons aspire to get into governmental office; what (money) is within or without government that they wish to corruptly share with some other people, or what corrupt covert schemes they wish to be a part of that seriously involves money; why they create electoral political groups, or become part of electoral political groups to facilitate their quest to be elected into the House of Assembly and, if possibly so, to be part of Cabinet of the government of this country.

    Perhaps some of the results or findings would show that, even though they hide behind the veil of doing things on the so-called behalf of the people or in their names, they are not much characteristically attitudinally different from those that are classified as pilfers, kleptomaniacs, thieves, robbers, frauds, and who ever else of that class that are dealt with by the criminal justice system in Barbados.

    So, Simple Simon focus must be put on those and other relevant things in finding out why really this wicked evil TAXATION system has been continued even though it has clearly been founded on deep rooted immorality, theft, fascism, totalitarianism, etc.

    For, the USA is a very mineral and convertible resources rich country. So is South Africa, Guyana, etc. Yet they have evil wicked robbing fascist TAXATION systems. Japan, Barbados do not have many mineral and convertible resources endowments, yet they have evil wicked robbing fascist TAXATION systems.

    So, right away you must see that the persons who are behind them share evil, wicked, robbing, fascist motivations and attitudes among themselves in respect of their being substantially involved in these criminal enterprises.

    Too, for your information, do a research of the Xeer legal system and see what it says.

    PDC

  28. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    Imagine once again the Nation Newspapers (Weekend Nation, Friday 11, 2014) are highlighting the case of the evil wicked TAXATION that is being imposed on the incomes of the owners of Subway by a rapacious, greedy and ignorant government of Barbados.

    We say here now to the owners of that restaurant and to many other owners of businesses in this country to give us your moral and political support so that we can at the shortest possible time be a part of a winning coalition of parties in government and – believe it or not – so that, among other things, surely such egregious vulgar criminal nonsense will be a thing of the past in this country.

    Forward ever, backward never!!

    PDC

  29. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    @ All

    If you had been hounded by the Inland Revenue and levied to pay thousands of $$ in back taxes for 15 years as the spokesman of a particular aspiring political party has, you too would be stuck on the chant that Taxes are evil.

    Add a little marijuana with its tetrahydrocannabinol or THC enhanced or a blackie and you have a stuck LP record a la PDC

    @ Simple Simon

    While i believe that wire transfers should instantaneously be reflected on pensioner accounts that foreign governments pay nationals/ex pats drawn on banks here in Bim given the exodus of scanners and high definition printers, it would be a rather foolish bank to honour a cheque of any type, drawn on an overseas financial institution, one which would have to be sent back to ovah and away for clearances, by giving the proceeds to a person here, irrespective of their monthly expenses.

    THe USA pays its pensioners by direct deposit, in fact BNB now RBTT has bid for and gotten this VERRRRRYYY lucrative contract for receiving US pension cheques for that function.

    It is just that someone has to tell the US Government that RBTT is profiteering off pensioner cheques and not making the $$ available immediately as they are paid and whaplax dat contract dun and de Trikidadians loss that interbank interest income.

    With all the austerity measures that Canada is employing I would seriously dougt that they would continue to mail pensions across the world as opposed to using direct deposits, mine only come from the UK and the US so i will be guided by those who know better

  30. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    @ Bush Tea

    This whole PDC No Taxation debate is my fault… should have rested the matter instead of rebutting. It’s not really getting anywhere, and the more PDC explains, without clarity, the more they are making themselves susceptible to criticism.

    But I am in agreement with David here as it relates to clarity, in that I am one who just don’t fully understand what they write. Especially with their usage of generalized, verbose statements comprising of syllogisms and redundancies, which makes it even much harder to read and comprehend. However, that does not mean there isn’t any merit in the content of PDC’s enunciations of policies/theories.

    As David also rightly stated, if PDC is discussing testing the hypothesis of their “theory”, they have to demonstrate the validity of their research hypothesis that a no taxation policy is the best way forward for Barbados, ceteris paribus; then use the alternative/H1 and the null hypotheses to determine if the theory is tested to be true or false.We must be reminded that Fisher, who first introduced this concept of testing hypothesis, remarked that we can never prove something to be true; but we can prove something to be false.
    But PDC won’t use this, these are archaic concepts developed by the bourgeoisies.

    But Bushie, you realized that Yagga understands everything and has endorsed it as well. But den again, he got a knack for understanding such things … becausen he does write a lotta shiite too,

  31. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    Artaxerxes,

    We have previously said to you that the empirically testable hypotheses that are found within our No-TAXATION theory will be tested whenever we become part of a winning coalition of parties in government in this country, and NOT before.

    These hypotheses themselves shall be part of the wider implementation by such a nationalist developmentalist people-centered coalitional regime of strategies and programs that will be geared towards the government having greater and fairer access to the use of money in this country to settle it bills, and its making greater use of resources, assets, buildings, professionals and such like in order to get greater revenues out the commercial processes of this country.

    As far as testing for the null hypothesis of NO-TAXATION policy coming about in this country this shall become a very vacuous and otiose consideration for the regime, or shall run opposite to the fundamental assumptions and principles supporting this NO-TAXATION theory, as that – on the basis of those fundamental assumptions and principles – it shall be the unshakable policy and program of such a coalitional regime to actually bring such a No-TAXATION policy about in this country.

    As well, it would certainly not be politically astute for us to be seen by any one to be deferring to any apparent scientificizing in regard of such, where, on one hand, there would greater certainty of ushering the policy using the full political apparatus of the state, and where, on the other hand, various reactionary regressive forces may use the opportunity of the holding of a referendum to substantially undermine the movement to what is necessary for the people of this country – total freedom from the evil scourge of TAXATION.

    Finally, also, we do not at this stage have to demonstrate – as you have suggested – the validity of our research hypothesis that a No-TAXATION policy is the best way forward for the long term of this country, as that the political environment right now for testing for such a result is not conducive to proper impartial testing.

    Moreover, were we to win the government of this country at any time in the future, we are not even saying now that we are going to be committed to the holding of a referendum on the question, even though it would appear to us that a referendum would appear – in that way – to be the best instrument for the partial testing of such a hypothesis.

    Hence, our primary focus shall be to do all that is necessary fair and right to help usher in a post-TAXATION society for Barbados.

    PDC

  32. David Avatar
    David

    @PDC

    In essence using bajan vernacular you will ask the electorate to buy a pig in a bag?

  33. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    @pieceuhderockyeahright “With all the austerity measures that Canada is employing I would seriously doubt that they would continue to mail pensions across the world as opposed to using direct deposits…”

    Look here and you will see that CPP beneficiaries living in Barbados cannot receive their pensions by direct deposit
    http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/recgen/dd/etranger-abroad-eng.html

  34. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Caswell
    Man Bushie used to follow your lead…but Artaxerxes went and make the topic interesting…and got Bushie hooked….
    …and to be honest, there IS a need for tax reform….
    ….on the other hand there is also a need for some psychiatric help for PDC….

    @ Artaxerxes
    LOl Ha Ha Ha …
    Boss….your analysis is bang on….even Yagga will agree Ha Ha

    Even PDC must realize that their hypothesis is (H0) since their conclusion that a NO TAX regime for Barbados is viable is clearly….BULL.

    HOWEVER….one cannot but admire the high level of academic verbosity with wich PDC has been peddling their shiite talk…. Case in point….

    “These hypotheses themselves shall be part of the wider implementation by such a nationalist developmentalist people-centered coalitional regime of strategies and programs that will be geared towards the government having greater and fairer access to the use of money in this country to settle it bills, and its making greater use of resources, assets, buildings, professionals and such like in order to get greater revenues out the commercial processes of this country.”
    Sweet…..!!!
    …think Georgie Brathwaite PhD (soon to be) could touch that…? 🙂

  35. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    David,

    You stated: “In essence using bajan vernacular you will ask the electorate to buy a pig in a bag?”

    Why do you think we are currently having this very historic and revolutionary debate on the evolution towards a post-TAXATION society for Barbados on BU?

    Why do you and others on here think that this debate is being characterized as such?

    Why?

    For, never before in the history of this country has there been a structured debate on the subject of the ABSOLUTE REMOVAL of this evil wicked anti-developmental TAXATION system from the political financial landscape in Barbados.

    Why do you think that the person going by the pseudonym – Artaxerxes – is facetiously claiming – in a previous blog under this thread – to have started this debate, David? Why? Why do you think that – in spite of what appears to be your best efforts on here to prevent or stifle it – this debate on the evolution towards a post-TAXATION society for Barbados will NEVER go away? Huh??!!

    Well, it is fundamentally because of the fact that it is within your DNA, and everybody else’s DNA, for that matter, to be naturally free of any form of oppression and subjugation. Thus, it is from this form of existential psychology that there will – from time to time – present the opportunity for every living adult in Barbados to – at any time – reject anything that is constructed in a social political way, and that is non-negotiable oppression and subjugation – such as this anti-human TAXATION is.

    Right now, this debate is THE most important one taking place in the country!!

    For, whereas the intellectual and political focuses of this great debate that is taking place on BU – are on the subject of the ABSOLUTE LIBERATION FREEDOM of ALL the people, ALL the businesses and ALL other entities of this country from the evil scourge of TAXATION in this country, it is absolutely foreboding that the intellectual and political focus of the debates on the subject of TAXATION in the House of Assembly of the Parliament of this country are on imposing more and more of this fascist TAXATION on the backs of the relevant people, businesses and other entities of this country, thus placing them more and more under this criminal yoke of TAXATION.

    And some persons on this blog network might not realize the great significance of this debate in helping to shape their own or many others future political destiny in Barbados, beyond the fact that they are open to participate in a debate on a subject that has NEVER been put to the people of this country by the intellectually and politically backward decrepit DLP and BLP disorganizations.

    But we are hoping that they will eventually realize such, even in a context where NO MINISTER OF FINANCE of any government in the history country has ever come to any segment of the people or of stakeholder interests in a town hall type gathering of people and even explained a part of the true history of TAXATION, or ever leveled with them on their rights to reject repudiate any form of TAXATION in any forum at any time in this country.

    Their intentions have been to keep as many people in this country in ignorance and in denial about the evil and darkness of TAXATION. But with the coming about of the revolutionary new media those intentions are going to be thwarted by an ever growing knowledge thirsty people seeking the otherwise hidden truth about TAXATION, and who will greater find it, via much of the enlightened truths of this world that are greater accessed more and more as time goes by, via much of the very critical positive information and knowledge that is put on the broader revolutionary new media.

    So, so fundamentally of great importance and significance is this debate that we have even been directing more people to the path breaking pioneering debate taking place on the blog network.

    Finally, though, our disappointment is with your lack of a contribution to the debate itself, and, again, as is seen in the type of statement that you have made above and that we have cited in this PDC post.

    It is obvious that such a lack of contribution does not reflect the truth that there is momentum building towards the elimination of TAXATION in this country.

    PDC

  36. David Avatar
    David

    @PDC

    Then get on the talk shows, write traditional media, get your website up and running, get VISIBLE!

  37. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    David,

    We agree with your suggestions.

    But it does not mean that many people in Barbados must not see or must not create for THEMSELVES roles to perform in this great human cause.

    PDC

  38. David Avatar
    David

    @PDC

    Less talk, DO!

  39. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    David, Artaxerxes, and all others

    Below is a significant and trenchant extraction that we have largely reproduced to give greater and greater support to the fact that TAXATION is THEFT.

    Hence, in an online contribution fff.org/../all-taxation-is-theft/ entitled ALL TAXATION Is Theft (April 3, 2013), Laurence M Vance reports the late Austrian economist, Murray Rothbard, as having said that:

    “All other persons and groups in society (except for acknowledged and sporadic criminals such as thieves and bank robbers ) obtain their income voluntarily: either by selling goods and services to the consuming public or by voluntary gift (e.g. membership in a club, or association, bequest, or inheritance) ONLY the state obtains its revenue ( the PDC disagrees with that epithet though) by coercion, by threatening dire penalties should the income not be forthcoming. That coercion is known as taxation, although in less regularized epochs, it was often known as “tribute”. TAXATION is theft, purely and simply, even though it is theft on a grand and colossal scale which no acknowledged criminals could hope to match. It is a compulsory seizure of the property of the state’s inhabitants or subjects”.

    Vance went on to write, in the online publication, that, “it would be an instructive exercise for the skeptical reader to try to frame a definition of taxation which does not also indicate theft”.

    So there you go.

    PDC

  40. David Avatar
    David

    @PDC

    Forget taxation for a moment, think democracy, expression of a people to express themselves within said democracy, think global international and financial frameworks, Please locate your idea (unproved theory) in this context first.

  41. Prodigal Son Avatar
    Prodigal Son

    Has PDC ever explained how they would run a government with no taxation?
    How would public workers be paid?
    How would PDC run the QEH? Transportation? Schools?
    Would Barbados be a free for all?
    Would PDC’s elected members get salaries, if so from where?
    These are but I few questions to which I would want answers!

  42. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    @ PDC

    “Laurence M Vance reports the late Austrian economist, Murray Rothbard, as having said that:……..”

    This is rather confusing, on one hand you have constantly challenged the validity of economists and their economic theories, deeming such polices as being archaic; yet you are relying on an economist who is spewing ideas similar to yours. Isn’t this hypocritical?

    “Rothbard rejected the application of the scientific method to economics, and dismissed econometrics, empirical and statistical analysis, and other tools of mainstream social science as useless for the study of economics. He instead embraced praxeology, the strictly a priori methodology of Ludwig von Mises. Praxeology conceives of economic laws as akin to geometric or mathematical axioms: fixed, unchanging, objective, and discernible through logical reasoning, without the use of any evidence.”

    Rothbard was no different an “experimental economist” than Keynes, and he embraced Marx’s views. In the above extract, the phrase “without the use of any evidence” raises a red flag. If PDC accepts Rothbard’s theories, it proves what David and the others were saying all along……. Your no taxation policy is just an idea, because, as a “theory”, it was formulated without evidence that it will be sustainable in the short or long term. It has not undergone any economical hypothesis testing to substantiate it could work.

  43. Let's Impeach The DLP Avatar
    Let’s Impeach The DLP

    BY DR CLYDE MASCOLL | THU, APRIL 10, 2014 – 12:00 AM

    The failure to take care of Barbados’ fiscal problems, notwithstanding the preparation of the first fiscal strategy document in 2010, now threatens the previously solid reputations of some of the country’s major institutions – the labour unions, the Central Bank, the National Insurance Scheme (NIS) and the credit unions.

    Currently, the labour movement is fighting public perception that it has been weak and very accommodating with the Government. It is a perception that will persist. The movement accepted that a public sector job is more valuable than a private sector one. This view sought to justify the creation of public sector jobs in a declining economy to counter job losses in the private sector.

    Such a view is predicated on increasing taxation in the face of less aggregate spending. Both households and businesses are asked to sacrifice their already reduced spending power to allow the Government to spend more. This is a case of economic ignorance parading as political savvy. Such thinking has a short shelf life.

    The failure to take care of the fiscal problems benefited the labour movement as public sector jobs were created at the expense of existing workers for short-term political gain.

    In accommodating the Government’s excessive spending with the printing of money, in the form of advances and holdings of treasury bills, the Central Bank’s ability to earn profits has been strangely compromised in recent years. History shows that the Central Bank has been most profitable during periods of economic recession. The question is, why is it now making losses?

    The bank’s foreign investments have earned less income over the last three to four years, but this does not explain the losses of the bank. It is clear that domestic activities are mainly responsible for the losses.

    In 1992, the bank made its biggest profit of $30.2 million, followed by $15.0 million in 1993. The numbers reveal that most of the increase in income came from interest earned on advances to both commercial banks and the Government in particular. In addition, interest was earned from the purchase of treasury bills.

    Of the $25.8 million in income from advances earned by the Central Bank in 1992, advances to the commercial banks accounted for just $7.3 million. This means that advances to the Government made up a significant portion of the residual. It is true that the level of interest rates was higher in the early 1990s but there is clear evidence to show that interest rates

    have been deliberately suppressed to reduce the cost of debt to the Government.

    The Government is not only being accommodated by the bank through the excessive printing of money, but the cost of debt is being contained. Unfortunately, this is affecting the profitability of the bank.

    In the circumstances, the bank has to be recapitalised by its only shareholder, the Government, which does not have the wherewithal to do so, unless it issues some form of securities.

    The failure to take care of the fiscal problems has not benefited the Central Bank, which is now finding itself in need of restructuring.

    The National Insurance Scheme has carried its fair share of the burden of financing Government spending since it was reformed. Unfortunately, it is too restricted in the amount of foreign investment in which it can engage and therefore has to rely too heavily on local investments. The Government takes advantage of this reality, but there has to be a limit to taking so many eggs from one basket.

    Given the concerns raised about the investment portfolio of the NIS in the past, it is again unfortunate that the current fiscal problems have been pursued without reference to the implications for the most critical “financial” institution in Barbados.

    The progress, not so easily won since Independence, is being seriously threatened by an administration that failed to see the bigger picture. It is now the case that the youngest among us will not have access to an educational system that appreciated its role in redressing social imbalance, and a health system that minimised the ability to pay as a way of giving us access to the most precious social good on earth.

    Put the consequences for our major institutions, including the University of the West Indies and the Queen Elizabeth Hospital, of the current fiscal crisis together and then imagine a shattered credit union movement on top of it all.

    Dr Clyde Mascoll is an economist and Opposition Barbados Labour Party adviser on the economy.

  44. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    Artaxerxes | April 13, 2014 at 8:56 PM |

    @ PDC

    “Laurence M Vance reports the late Austrian economist, Murray Rothbard, as having said that:……..”

    This is rather confusing, on one hand you have constantly challenged the validity of economists and their economic theories, deeming such polices as being archaic; yet you are relying on an economist who is spewing ideas similar to yours. Isn’t this hypocritical?
    ……………………………………………………………………..

    Question to Ata..
    Is economics a true science?
    If so how&why.

  45. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    To David, Artaxerxes, and all others

    There are various online sites referencing the fact that Judge Andrew Napolitano – a former New Jersey Superior Court Judge – said of TAXATION some time ago; “I’ll say this plainly, I have said it before – taxation is theft. It presumes the government has a higher claim on our propery than we do”.

    While we are not libertarian like Napolitano, we are clearly in harmony with him on the fact that TAXATION is Theft.

    To David,

    You are being tautological in your hurry to define democracy.

    Also, as far as the PDC is concerned, democracy does not exist at the national level of this country. It is a misnomer and falsehood to say that Barbados is a democracy.

    Anyhow, on the question of certain international forces ( OECD, Paris Club, etc) moving against what they call harmful tax competition and which we think is another question that you were getting at since yesterday in this debate, what though we would have to say to you and others on here and elsewhere – who might be having anxieties or might be being skeptical about the implementation of such a NO-TAXATION policy by a winning coalitional regime in the face of what you and they think would lead to a path of possible threats by these people to sanction us, is this, that our NO-TAXATION theory cannot reasonably be placed by anyone within such a context of such likely international thuggery, as that, there shall be no question that we shall have the sovereign right to determine what we would long ago have concluded when were not in governmental office and given that we would have gone into government then, it would simply be that we would have been seeking to implement what we would have been fundamentally conscientiously knowing for a long time – that it has never been legally politically improper injudicious for the government of Barbados to have been taxing the remuneration properties of any one any business any other entity – local or foreign – within the country’s jurisdiction, and so our fundamental quest would have been therefore the bringing about of proper alternatives to TAXATION.

    As a matter of fact the many ideological political assumptions, propositions, principles, etc forming much of the core of this NO-TAXATION theory would show how we would be even now on the right and proper path to dealing dealing with the remuneration properties of locals and foreigners.

    PDC

  46. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    @ Vincent Haynes

    I thought this debate was about PDC’s no taxation policy?

    I think you should focus on the topic instead of making this debate about me and if I believe economics is a true science or not. I see no correlation between the no taxation policy and what I think.

  47. David Avatar
    David

    @PDC

    Please know you are entitled to your view, this is not in question. Although the judge’s view reconciles with yours it does not explain away whether your idea (theory?) can support a robust public policy to run country. This is the issue being debated.

  48. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    Artaxerxes | April 13, 2014 at 9:29 PM |

    @ Vincent Haynes

    I thought this debate was about PDC’s no taxation policy?

    I think you should focus on the topic instead of making this debate about me and if I believe economics is a true science or not. I see no correlation between the no taxation policy and what I think
    …………………………………………………………………………….

    Thanks Ata….for answering the question,,,much obliged.

  49. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    In the PDC post just above, and in the second last paragraph, lines 18 and 19, it should have been: ” that it has never been legally politically proper judicious…..”

    Our sincere apologies.

    PDC

  50. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    Artaxerxes,

    It is not hypocritical fundamentally because it does not change our view of economics and economists on the whole. All we just did was to have done the necessary online research and that was what we were led to.

    We did not seek out Murray Rothbard, we were led to him vis-a-vis our linking with the contribution by Vance in the said online publication. It was Vance who cited Rothbard not us.

    Moreso, it is clear that even though Rothbard’s was an economist, it was his personal point of view he was proffering, as that that position itself is found no where within mainstream economics, and too that position is not the revealed position of mainstream economists here in Barbados or elsewhere.

    PDC

Older Comments
1 2 3 4 5
Newer Comments

The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading