Unmanageable Sovereign Debt

It seems obvious to BU that successive governments have allowed debt levels to rise to unsustainable levels. The key indicators used by the analysts all show that Barbados leads Caribbean and Central American countries as it relates to servicing debt. The IADB report highlighted also shows that rising debt is a problem for almost all Caribbean and Central American countries. We are facing a systemic problem of enormous proportion.

With increasing levels of debt and, in most cases, low growth or weak macroeconomic fundamentals and declining fiscal surpluses, the developing economies of Central America and the Caribbean are becoming more concerned about their ability to adequately service sovereign debt from lower fiscal surpluses with the increasing possibility of sovereign default risk (See Table 2.2, showing average fiscal surplus or deficit over the period studied).

See IADB ReportWhat are the Fiscal Limits for the Developing Economies of Central America and the Caribbean?

94 comments

  • Dentistry Whisperer (M. Pharm. D) LinkedIN

    How soon we forget. UPP – Go girl go!

    Like

  • Bajan Free Party/CUP Violet Beckles Plantation Deeds from 1926-2017 land tax bills and no Deeds,BLPand DLP Massive land Fruad and PONZ

    Old numbers, what is it today in 2017? How much morePain do we need before removing the DBLP Slavery queens?
    5 more years of the D or B will be pure Hell, Tax VAT and Kill Parties of Crime and Corruption, Audits well needed to find out where all the money went to,
    20 years of VAT unaccounted for, NHC/UDC Fraud, Massive Land Fraud, Banking Fraud, Laundering on all levels, Buyouts Payout, No Gains ever in Selling government own Businesses banks nor other business,
    DBLP do not understand or have an understanding of how things work, Massive Fraud by lawyer agreements payouts,Fraud is the Order of the Day, time for both to go to?

    Like

  • David
    Maybe all governments have seen the obvious end to the fiat system

    Thusly, it may not be unwise to not stop borrowing

    Like

  • @Pacha

    What has clearly been exposed by this report and others is that current econometric and other modelshave used to inform decdecision-making have become outmoded.

    Where do we go from here given our apparent helplessness as developing SIDs?

    Like

  • @ Pacha
    We both know that such strategic thinking as you propose is beyond the capability of these leaders. It is much more conceivable that, driven by greed, laziness and the albino-centric drive that pervades all societies, they just grabbed whatever they could in their mindless materialistic orgy of greed.

    In any case, Bushie disputes your contention that such a strategy (of maximising debt in the face of system collapse) is a sensible approach for a country. Any such collapse will be chaotic and painful – and the very first victims will those most indebted and exposed by liabilities.

    Living beyond one’s means…is just simply a one-way, dead-end street.

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  • @ David
    Where do we go from here given our apparent helplessness as developing SIDs?
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    It is a dead-end, one-way street to chaos and death….. It ALWAYS was.
    …..but brass bowls are easily distracted by the short term pleasures of spending what they did not earn…. like driving around for a couple months in a $3/4M Benz, when you have not produced a single productive shiite in nine years.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Bushie
    Implicit to your reasoning is a semblance of orderly collapse.

    We see it coming from the centre’s of global economic and political power.

    This will not be the first time. Remember tulipmania.

    Like

  • @Bush Tea

    We are battling the will to change fashioned by years of feeding a consumption model. We blame politicians but ordinary citizens are vested if we accept that we are to hold governments accountable. Yes this is the idealistic position we hasten to admit.

    Unfortunately we have a bigger problem and that is how to lighten the debt load in the near term. In other words -we have to extricate ourselves from the debt trap as a GROUP, as single entities we cannot exist in a contaminated space.

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  • What is scary is to observe the Barbados and Caribbean space devoid of the tenor of conversation we are currently engaged among our leaders.

    Like

  • Pray tell which financial institution would lend these indebted country money and if there are any the interest rate would be high and further expand the debt. The long and short fiscal measures should have been applied years ago to pay the debt instead of make belief policies built on refinancing debt to pay debt for over extended periods
    The chickens have finally come home to roost

    Like

  • @ David & Pacha
    The main reason for our demise is that idiots like the one posting @ 8:04AM above are even allowed to discuss matters such as these – far less to influence national policy.
    It is like putting the intellectually challenged children in charge of the family fortune – and expecting anything but chaos and poverty.

    ….or like putting Peter Polester to be a national spokesman on VOB when he is clearly a flawed specimen. Nothing wrong with being dyslexic…., but it is clear that he is contaminated with much worse ‘flaws’…. such as his unmannerly and uncouth attitude during last Sunday’s brass tacks – and even he admits it was not the first time – recalling his embarrassment with Lucile Baird some time ago….

    Despite this idiot’s clear incompetence and ongoing embarrassments, David Ellis persists with imposing him, and his warped ideas, on Barbados ….. and gets PROMOTED in the process.

    Do you see now why the local press are unable to hold any fire to politician’s feet – or indeed to the society’s feet?

    Idiots are in charge….Wisdom is silenced.
    How then can we “extricate ourselves from the debt trap as a GROUP”….?
    Our ass is grass boss….

    Like

  • William Skinner

    Everything mentioned here was known fifty years ago. The garbage that is coming out is exactly what was put in: pseudo intellectuals, party hacks, academic snobbery, classism, racism and an insatiable appetite for sophistry. Copying decadent economic models that could have been only successful in slavery. Yet in 2017 after all the eloquent commentary we still see the IMF as our only hope. We cuss the political class but our thinking is not that distant form theirs.

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington.

    @ Pacha at 7:58 AM

    “This will not be the first time. Remember tulip mania”.
    How true. The international capitalist economic system survived that as well.

    @ Bushie

    Do not blame the political class. It is the technocrats who failed to do the maths and advise them appropriately. Or if they did , they have lost the art of managing the political class.

    @ David

    A very interesting academic paper. But you should check with our resident economic and financial expert. Is not the Laffer curve one of those arcane economic ideas that was punished with laughter {pun intended} ? There was only one single episode of it having worked in economic history. It has no credibility in the advanced economy. I was surprised to see it being applied in small open economies with the extreme built in volatility that is part of their nature
    Thanks again Pacha for pointing out the folly of our thinking.

    The attached article is worth reading. It should keep Alzheimer away.

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  • Frustrated Businessman: enact Facilitation Martial Law!

    We have bankrupted ourselves to support an unproductive population led by unproductive and un-facilitating civil servants and employees of statutory corporations that were created to lose money.

    Fewer and fewer of us are supporting more and more.

    Where is the mystery?

    Recovery of this economy must start with:

    Leasing of all the statutory corporations to the employees for $1 per year and commencement of a 5-year program to ween them totally off of subventions.
    Establishment of civil service oversight through a depoliticised senate that can hear complaints from tax-payers promptly and sanction departments and individuals.
    AG’s office billing gov’t departments for legal services spent defending their stupidity and incompetence, payment thereof to come out of ministry’s annual budget.
    Leasing gov’t agricultural land to small farmers at the current BADMC rate ($200 per acre per year).
    Gov’t to get out of any business where it competes with tax-payers.

    If private-sector confidence is not restored in gov’t by the next cabinet, there will be no change in outcome; it is 7 years to late for the current crop of idiots.

    If the private sector is re-energised, recovery of our little economy would be swift.

    There will be no economic recovery under Fumble’s Fools.

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  • @Bernard

    Is this another event we have to wait until it evolves?

    Based on the graphs-not Laffer- almost all the Caribbean and Central American countries are in the soup. The issue is now bigger than what is happening in the Barbados space?

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  • Bushie
    When we see obvious dysfunction at the centre of this American system and there are no responses away from the centre, like in the Caribbean for example, one must conclude talk about debt burden is useless talk.

    Those who increasingly conflate today,s problems with those our best scholars adumbrated underestimate the what,s happening currently

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  • Frustrated Businessman: enact Facilitation Martial Law!

    The entire idea that gov’t has to PROVIDE social services rather than PAY FOR social services is where our slippery slope started.

    We have a functioning Fair Trading Commission that could be justifying the cost of low-income housing rental, medical services, education and everything else that makes up our social net.

    When gov’t PAYS the private sector for services, competition makes it affordable. When gov’t PROVIDES social services, costs and teefin’ go up and quality declines.

    Communism is dead. Socialism has a price and we are paying too much for what we get.

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  • “The long and short fiscal measures should have been applied years ago to pay the debt instead of make belief policies built on refinancing debt to pay debt for over extended periods.”

    @ Angela Cox-Skeete

    “Your NEED to PONTIFICATE on ANY and EVERY GIVEN MATTER is ASTOUNDING. [angela Skeete April 12, 2017 at 8:42 AM #]”

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington.

    @ David at 9 :32 AM

    The world evolves. You may not realize it but you and BU are assisting the evolutionary process. I have not worked this hard intellectually except for the structural adjustment period in the early 1990s.
    Pacha clued you in by using the term Fiat system. Some body said let there be and there is /was. If the innocent lad says the emperor has no clothes on, the whole world will see his nakedness.. So relax.

    The USA , the UK, Germany have run much larger twin deficits of Trade and Budget for decades. They are still around. I assure you the Caribbean will survive this crisis as well.

    Again I would like to emphasize that
    (1) the bulk of the National Debt of Barbados is owed to its component parts.
    (2)The terms of trade are negotiable.
    (3)What we chose to produce and trade is a Barbados decision.
    (4) We need to grow the economy.
    (5) Since Mr Arthur demitted office the Barbadian Economy has not been effectively managed.

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  • Apologies, but which of his 14 years as prime minister and minister of finance did Owen Arthur managed the economy competently? Did I miss a trick?

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  • @Bernard

    Thank you for your detailed response. If you can clarify a couple points.

    Can you expand on the downside to renegotiating the terms of trade as you describe it?

    Does it matter that the debt servicing for foreign is comparatively much less than local? What matters is our capacity to generate foreign revenue to pay the bills.

    Also increase in the local money base will not help with improving the situation.

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  • Frustrated Businessman: enact Facilitation Martial Law! June 14, 2017 at 9:29 AM

    Excellent points to which I will add

    A Director-General for all projects undertaken by the govt…..with a board of directors of no overt political bias.

    Agriculture must fall under a board comprised of farmers who will regulate what will be produced and impose a quota system for farmers thereby eliminating the possibility of experimenting with production or developing a glut.

    Community tourism be officially acknowledged and broad guidelines laid down to include everyone who so wishes..

    Taxes to be reviewed to eliminate the small man from paying any as he will be caught in the VAT net and allow an equitable rate for the high end earners.

    Land reserve and use regulations to be laid down.

    Education to revamped.

    Note we have always paid for social services as well as everything else in this country by virtue of our taxes for the last 50 years.

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  • The Barbados economy was never efficiently managed borrowing money to pay off existing debt was how barbados economy was managed compounded by a tax rate that was not sufficient enough for govt to pay foreign loans and managed the country internal debt
    The bottom line now shows that Barbadians were hoodwinked into a false sense of security and all the failures have risen to the top
    The govt of the day did not have the foresight or vision to realise that leaner times would come and take precautionary measures to ensure that barbados would not be caught like deer staring in the head lights
    Presently barbados is caught in a debt trap with little ir no wiggle room except to feel the pain and anguish which comes with paying outstanding debt

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  • Osa was the biggest bull sh.itter. just cannot understand how barbadians put this man on a pedestal of grand expectations
    Here these people are sucking salt having to pay back some if the debt OSA incurred with his insatiable appetite for borrowing and still ready to drink more of the witches brew he served under his watch

    Like

  • We really are a mendicant society in the Caribbean, putting all of our eggs in the tourism basket.

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  • angela Skeete June 14, 2017 at 12:51 PM #

    “The Barbados economy was never efficiently managed borrowing money to pay off existing debt was how barbados economy was managed compounded by a tax rate that was not sufficient enough for govt to pay foreign loans and managed the country internal debt…..”

    @ Angela Skeete

    “Your NEED to PONTIFICATE on ANY and EVERY GIVEN MATTER is ASTOUNDING. [angela Skeete April 12, 2017 at 8:42 AM #]”

    Your above response is utter nonsense and clearly indicates that issues of the economy are BEYOND your INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY and pay grade as the DLP’s resident yard-fowl troll, paid to represent them in this forum. In other words you are an “economics dunce.”

    How can any country in the world manage an economy by borrowing to repay existing debt, without consolidating that debt?

    Sinckler is on record as having said Barbados has never defaulted on its debt obligations.

    Like

  • Hal Austin June 14, 2017 at 12:13 PM #

    “Apologies, but which of his 14 years as prime minister and minister of finance did Owen Arthur managed the economy competently? Did I miss a trick?”

    As usual Hal Austin comes to BU with his “holier than thou attitude” trying to convince us he knows more about the Barbadian economy than any other person in the entire world.

    And his suggestion? Barbados should invest in securities.

    Like

  • My suggestion? Whose securities? Fabricating nonsense has now become a feature of many of the regulars in BU. It seems they have nothing else to say. Where is the evidence? Is he talking about derivatives, which I have suggested as a replacement for stockpiling foreign reserves?

    Like

  • Frustrated Businessman: enact Facilitation Martial Law! June 14, 2017 at 9:57 AM#

    “The entire idea that gov’t has to PROVIDE social services rather than PAY FOR social services is where our slippery slope started.”

    @ Frustrated Businessman

    Yes, and such policies, which are mainly funded to solicit votes, creates a mendicant society where citizens expect government to provide all social services without making the necessary contributions through taxation or paying a service fee.

    The reality of the situation is vendors, artisans, other entrepreneurs and some providers of professional services do not want to pay taxes but expect their children to attend government owned nursery, primary and secondary schools, benefit from health care, subsidized bus fare and other social services offered by government, at the expense of the working middle class, who bears the brunt of taxation.

    Barbados does not have the resources to adequately finance providing these social services without borrowing to do so.

    How long will successive administrations, for example, continue to subsidize bus fare at $2 for a poorly managed Transport Board, when bus fares should be determined by the market?

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  • Artax

    What am I missing….

    I thought the object of VAT was to ensure everyone paid into the tax coffers as it was too burdensome and costly to run behind the small man and collect pittances.

    The first year VAT returns more than justified that thinking……and a number of individual tax takes were discontinued.

    Social services should be covered from that pool.

    A tax net should be devised for high end earners……a home grown solution might not be a good idea based on our past performances but myriad solutions exist around the world …pick one or a hybrid that can work for us.

    The small man….minority…..poor man all are low hanging fruit and we too love to pick them.

    Like

  • “Fabricating nonsense,” shiite!!!

    Okay, Hal Austin, I was incorrect to state securities when I meant derivatives……….. So what???

    “Securities or derivatives,” my point still remains that you present yourself in this forum as a “know it all braggart” who uses pejorative and condescending statements to insult other contributors when they challenge you. A clear indication of narcissism.

    What you should do is, rather than promote yourself as the “intellectual supremo” of BU, tell us which country’s economy you successfully managed or any ideas/suggestions you offered that were successful in achieving the desired objectives.

    And I must remind you, how can I produce “evidence” when, according to you, it has not been tested in court under cross examination than it is hear say?

    Like

  • Artax,
    I got you. Evidence in this case is the year/s when in your view Mr Arthur competently managed the economy, and why.
    By the way, I like a challenge. I see it as a learning experience. And no, I am not an intellectual. I barely went to school.

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  • Artax

    Chuckle…..You have been elevated as Hal loves your challenge but runs from others….hahaha

    Like

  • Anybody suggesting derivatives as an alternative has introduced a level of financial ignorance hithertofore unknown

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  • millertheanunnaki

    @ ArtaxJune 14, 2017 at 1:32 PM
    “The reality of the situation is vendors, artisans, other entrepreneurs and some providers of professional services do not want to pay taxes but expect their children to attend government owned nursery, primary and secondary schools, benefit from health care, subsidized bus fare and other social services offered by government, at the expense of the working middle class, who bears the brunt of taxation.”

    You have not mentioned that many of these ‘evaders’ of income tax do so blatantly with the connivance of the same tax authorities mostly acting under direct instructions of their politically-elected masters who are connected personally to the tax cheats or are in receipt of funds from the same tax evaders to support their political operations.

    Just look at how Leroy Greenverbs has been able to ‘avoid’ paying taxes on his gratuity by passing it through a laundry machine once operated by the highest political operative in the land.

    How did that money find its way into the vault of the CBB for safe keeping if not with the connivance of the politically well-heeled big shots?

    What about the VAT charged on that invoice to the BWA? Why was it charged on a poorly-designed invoice giving no indication the supplier of the services is legally registered to charge and collect VAT on behalf of the then C&E Department?

    Wouldn’t that money come in handy to help pay the wages of some public sector workers for another few weeks or go towards reducing the fiscal deficit? Remember every little helps to go a long way!

    Barbados is a small 2×3 place whose tax base or roll could be easily managed by way of a simple ICT platform.

    Every user of government services who are not paying the full user fees for such services ought to show evidence they are registered with the BRA. Those services should include direct access to education and health which are currently “free” and the point of delivery whether to the adults or to their dependants.

    Isn’t that what the BRA was set up for along with the issuing of a Barbados ID?

    The same way the current administration wanted to ‘fingerprint’ every Bajan (except those with privileges) leaving and returning to the little island why not make sure every adult Bajan is registered with the BRA and the NIS?

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington.

    I was hoping that Hal, when he joined the discussion, would have expounded on the Laffer curve. How disappointing that he challenged my opinion of Mr. Arthur’s management of the Barbados economy.

    @ Vincent Haynes 1: 43 PM

    You are quite right. One of the objectives of VAT was to make sure that everyone ,including the unemployed , contributed to the cost of running this country. It also captured many of those operating in the underground economy.

    @ Artax

    You are quite right about the risks of allowing citizens of Barbados, a middle income country ,to behave like mendicants. There are no free lunches in life. I am old enough
    to recall when hawkers had to pay for a license to sell accees and bananas. Owners of donkey carts and bicycles had to pay a days and sometimes a week’s earnings to operate them. So rich and poor always contributed to the treasury.

    Like

  • Bernard,
    As you well know, Laffer believed basically that the higher the tax rate, the lower the tax revenue ie the wider the tax gap. That remains controversial. Like most things, it contains a half-truth. It depends on how the higher tax rate is imposed.
    The Laffer prohibitive range can be compromised by demanding social circumstances. Remember Japanese donating all their jewellery to get the state out of a compromising position after the 1998 crisis? In such circumstances those people would have been proud to pay all their wages as taxes.
    But long before 1974, when Laffer was reputed to have drawn his curve, it was a fairly common view in macroeconomics that the inverse relationship between tax rate and revenue. In fact, Adam Smith referred to it.
    @Bernard in the final analysis, once people think their standard of living is improving they will not have any problem with paying higher taxes.
    In Barbados the problem is the tax gap, as the Auditor-General shows us every year. Our administrative class is incompetent.
    People also object to higher taxation to pay civil servants salaries and politicians’ wages and pensions.
    I will end on this simple example: VAT is a tax which costs the government virtually nothing to collect: it is paid by consumers, collected by the private sector and, in theory, paid to the government.
    The problem in Barbados is that our civil servants cannot even collect money that the private sector already has collected, allowing them to use it as cash flow.
    It is shifting wealth from the poor to the well off. A scandal.

    Like

  • The best way to collect tax from a fisherman is through the VAT he pays when he spends earned income.

    Same for self employed carpenters masons labourers etc.

    Like

  • Hal Austin June 14, 2017 at 1:59 PM #

    “Artax, I got you. Evidence in this case is the year/s when in your view Mr Arthur competently managed the economy, and why.”

    @ Hal Austin

    “You got me?” Far from it, my friend!

    Recall you wrote: “Hal Austin June 14, 2017 at 1:23 PM #: Where is the EVIDENCE? Is he talking about derivatives, which I have suggested as a replacement for stockpiling foreign reserves?”

    Hal, yuh know you should have contemplated your comment re: “Hal Austin June 14, 2017 at 1:23 PM #: Fabricating nonsense has now become a feature of many of the regulars in BU. It seems they have nothing else to say,” BEFORE trying to “DECEITFULLY and CONVENIENTLY CORRELATE” the “evidence” you referred to in your 1:23pm comment with: “EVIDENCE in this case is the year/s when in your view Mr Arthur competently managed the economy, and why” in your 1:59pm comment.

    Additionally, I NEVER gave the VIEW that “Arthur competently managed the economy” for any given period of time.

    I recall responding to Grenville Phillips II, who used an IMF report to justify his opinion that debt for any country should not exceed 40% of GDP.

    I REFERRED to an EXCERPT taken from page 5 of the 2004 IMF Article IV Consultation Report re:

    “Barbados’ economy did well in the 1990s, supported by prudent policies and a favorable external environment. During 1993–2000, per capita real GDP growth averaged 2.5% per year, annual inflation was 2 percent or less, unemployment declined sharply, and key social indicators improved further. The structure of the economy shifted from agriculture to tourism and financial services. This performance was achieved in the context of small fiscal deficits (less than 2% of GDP), a conservative monetary policy (which resulted in a substantial accumulation of external reserves), and a range of market-oriented reforms.”

    Hal, the above are not MY opinions, but the OPINIONS of the International Monetary Fund’s (IMF) ECONOMIC TEAM that visited Barbados to give an assessment of the economy at that time.

    It is erroneous for you to attribute those comments to me.

    Hal, as a “journalist,” your reading and comprehension skills are noticeably lacking.

    Like

  • millertheanunnaki

    @ Codrington.June 14, 2017 at 10:08 AM

    “(4) We need to grow the economy.”

    I would do what the apologists on this blog for the current intellectually-defective DLP administration ask the BLP supporters:

    What are your proposals/solutions to ensure that the economy grows the way it is “needed” to survive the crisis?

    Proffer at least one way or direction for Barbados to follow to get on that much needed path of economic growth.

    Like

  • Frustrated Businessman: enact Facilitation Martial Law!

    Artax, further to your excellent points, VAT is the only fair tax. It should have replaced all others years ago and the entire complicated tax-collection system dismantled.

    With VAT, If you consume, you pay. If you do not consume, your money sits on bank accounts or in investment funds to be used by others and they pay.

    Our VAT should be 25%, VAT-registration only for $1M or more in trade, and all foreign exchange purchases from local businesses VAT free.

    Our problems are simple, we just have no willingness to solve them.

    Like

  • OSA in his own words suggested that barbados consolidate some of its debt by way of IMF loans
    To ” consolidate” is another glorified way of saying “borrow”

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington.

    @ David

    Re Separating the Sovereign Debt into Foreign and Domestic Components

    Foreign loans must be repaid in foreign currencies and should only be taken if the projects for which they were borrowed generate foreign exchange, contributes to the savings of foreign exchange,or prevent the loss of foreign exchange generating activities.
    The sources for repayment is a trade surplus (exports exceed imports) or further borrowing( refinancing of debt). If these do not happen there may be a crisis. It is therefore important to assess the required payments in respect to the foreign exchange earning capacity of Barbados. My personal opinion is that it is manageable.

    Sovereign debt owed to local households, corporations and pension schemes are debts owed to ourselves. They are a result of a political decision not to tax, or a political decision to distribute the cost of public goods and services between present and future generations. This is equitable. They also generate incomes to the owners of these debts. And they put no stress on the foreign reserves or the foreign exchange rate.

    Borrowing from the Social Insurance scheme and other segregated funds should be capped at an agreed level ,consistent with an agreed risk profile. They should not be regarded as part of the official foreign reserves nor part of the GOB Consolidated Fund

    It is important to ask:”High debt in relation to what?” And more importantly” Is it sustainable?”

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  • Bernard Codrington.

    @ Hal Austin @ 2: 57 PM

    Thank you very much. You did not disappoint. Very often it pays to wear blinkers and develop tunnel vision so that you may not be distracted from your objectives and discuss trivia.

    Like

  • Hants June 14, 2017 at 2:57 PM #

    Well stated…..quite simple…..one cuts to the chase.

    Like

  • Frustrated Businessman: enact Facilitation Martial Law!

    Bernard Codrington. June 14, 2017 at 3:50 PM #
    @ David

    Sovereign debt owed to local households, corporations and pension schemes are debts owed to ourselves. They also generate incomes to the owners of these debts. And they put no stress on the foreign reserves or the foreign exchange rate.

    Wrong.

    All cash in circulation in Bim creates a demand for goods which are mostly paid for in ForEx. We do not make anything other than pork and chicken, even their feed components as well as yams and sweet potatoes are now imported.

    This is why removal of circulating cash by gov’t in the form of further taxation, investment notes and non-payment for local goods and services in an effort to save ForEx will cause economic recession in the coming months and not realise the tax income goals touted as the economy shrinks and economic activity is curtailed.

    We cannot tax ourselves into prosperity. Prosperity is only achieved when many people are involved in much economic activity and everyone takes their cut. No cash, no economic activity, no cut; economic disaster.

    There will be no economic recovery under Fumble’s Fools.

    Like

  • William Skinner

    Only complete jokers would believe that there is no root cause to our problems. We are still trying to extend the life of the plantation economy and it would not work. The major problems which confront the region are a rapidly deteriorating environment and a serious escalation in crime. It is much easier to fix the economies by a blend of technological innovation, a radical reform of the education system and setting and maintaining incremental goals. We have the human resources to make the adjustments but we are constantly refusing to bite the bullet.
    For example: Why pretend that the self employed should not pay taxes but the state must have an obligation to feed , house and clothe them in their old age ? Why pretend that we can have free university education forever on some silly false premise that only a university degree guarantees upward socio-economic mobility ? Why are we afraid to realise that technology not only replaces but creates jobs ?
    Am I to believe that if the society produces 1000 mechanics a year it would be worst off than if it produces 300 history , sociology and law graduates from UWI?
    Am I to believe that we cannot reduce our import food bill by 25% over the next decade that will result in saving millions in FX thereby reducing the fiscal deficit and improving our reserves? Am I to believe that a ban on cars with engines above 1500 cc for private use would cause widespread famine?
    Are we going to forever be dependent on the IMF and other agencies to keep us economically alive but on a respirator?

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  • William Skinner June 14, 2017 at 4:15 PM #

    Why pretend that the self employed should not pay taxes but the state must have an obligation to feed , house and clothe them in their old age ?
    …………………………………………………………………………………………

    VAT is a tax and was intended to ensure everyone subscribed to the state……so presently everyone contributes….no one in Bim is a tax defaulter.

    The aspiration of any modern and caring society should be exactly the above…….ensuring all are cared for from the cradle to the grave……something progressive western societies copied from certain ancient African kingdoms.

    Why the continuous need to pick at the small man……what is there in our psyche that we must always take the lazy way out and kill low hanging fruit……what have they done you……all of us came from those fruit.

    Like

  • “angela Skeete June 14, 2017 at 3:41 PM #: OSA in his own words suggested that barbados consolidate some of its debt by way of IMF loans. To “consolidate” is another glorified way of saying “borrow”….”

    George Street definitely does not proof read the comments of their paid trolls. If they did, they would not have allowed that yard-fowl to embarrass the DLP by posting such nonsense to BU.

    The word “consolidate” may be defined as process of “combining (a number of things) into a single more effective or coherent whole.”

    Hence, debt consolidation allows a country to combine/merge its multiple outstanding debts into one debt obligation.

    The country may seek financing to pay off this single debt obligation, facilitated through a loan where the payments of principal and interest are significantly lower. The decrease in interest rates help debt stabilization through reducing debt servicing costs and cushioning the contractionary impact of consolidation.

    We could explore the suggestion of debt consolidation if we take, for example, certain variables into consideration, such as the unsustainable fiscal deficit and future increases in public expenditure as it relates Barbados’ ageing population.

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  • We should try to keep the conversation above the usual political rhetoric and here is why. Barbados AND most Central America and Caribbean countries all find ourselves batting the same mounting sovereign debt problem. A few here debating the issue probably have not even read the damn report. Herein is where our problems start. We are a financially illiterate people who are guided by political biases.

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington. June 14, 2017 at 2:34 PM #

    Thanks for confirming what I understood about the intent of VAT which was achieved.

    Why do we not revert to the VAT on everything concept and remove all taxes except property,corporate and personal from x income level?

    With that solved why do we not spend our time on dealing with productivity and see how fx can be saved by reducing food imports and increasing our Ag. production,reduce energy inputs by going solar,recycle of our domestic waste,recycle all of our refuse,etc,etc

    This is where our conversation should be leading us on one hand and the use of the IMF to solve our short term fiscal crisis in the other hand.

    Like

  • Vincent Haynes June 14, 2017 at 4:29 PM #

    “Why the continuous need to pick at the small man……what is there in our psyche that we must always take the lazy way out and kill low hanging fruit……what have they done you……all of us came from those fruit.”

    @ Vincent

    I have to agree with William Skinner’s comment re: “Why pretend that the self employed should not pay taxes but the state must have an obligation to feed, house and clothe them in their old age?”

    2% of an employee’s insurable earnings and 2% the employer pays on his employee’s NIS contributions, goes towards non-contributory pension (i.e. pension the so called “small man” “freely receives” at the expense of those who pay NIS contributions).

    Are you suggesting because the so called “small man” pays VAT, it entitles him to benefit from a non-contributory pension off the backs of those individuals who, over the years, had to endure progressive increases in NIS contribution rates, while the “small man” did find it necessary to contribute to the NIS fund during his entire working life?

    Are you also suggesting the middle class should be burdened with taxes, including VAT, to enable the so called “small man” to reap all the benefits?

    We have a situation in Barbados where entrepreneurs are allowed to shout “the poor black man trying tuh mek a dollars,” as a method of exempting themselves from contributing their fair share to society, but benefit off the backs of the middle class and those who diligently pay their taxes.

    Like

  • Artax

    I posit that VAT can cover the non-contributory…..Can you find out the amount of the present non-contributory….plus the fact that normal attrition will continuously reduce these numbers……the small poor men’s progeny will always evolve into the NIS.

    I am dealing with the dying breed called the small poor man…..he does not own property,he rents or lives in a govt unit,he contributes his children to the state,he pays VAT……what more do you want from him?

    Like

  • Consolidation however u slice or dice is a method of financing debt to pay outstanding debt that is the creditor pays off outstanding loans of the debitor at acost which includes interest and financing of the loan . the loan also has provisions in case there is a default wherby the creditor can through court proceddings call in the loan immediately for full payment or seize any assests that the debtor has or was put forward as a collateral.
    The lowering of interest rate which seems attractive can be problematic as the principal usually takes longer to decline

    Like

  • David is really a character. While doing his best to smother the government’s plans to spur economic growth (did somebody say Hyatt), he spreads alarm about the debt.

    Now I have said previously that the Government should sell the airport and some of its real estate to reduce the debt. But all this talk about the unsustainability of the debt load is poppycock. Barbados has created the rudiments of a welfare state and government spending has ballooned. But as a percentage of GDP, government expenditures are no higher than they are in Canada or Europe.

    Everybody calm down.

    Like

  • @ Angela Skeete

    Once again you have demonstrated your ignorance. Your comment is NOT APPLICABLE to national debt.

    And it is also erroneous of you to use provisions applicable to private debt to describe terms and conditions for national debt. Also, there are significant differences between an ordinary debt default and a sovereign debt default.

    Unlike a business or an ordinary individual, a country does not have to present assets as collateral to acquire loans. While courts within a country can enforce agreements between creditors and debtor, there isn’t any international court that can enforce contracts between creditors and debtors from different countries.

    Whereas the bank may seize an individual’s assets if he/she defaults on a personal loan, similar does not occur with a country. Suppose, for example, Barbados borrows from ABC and subsequently defaults on the loan. ABC cannot “put the government in court” or seize Transport Board buses.

    Like

  • The following is a 2013 report NOT written by BU.

    Barbados Plans 3,000 Public Sector Job Cuts
    December 16, 2013
    On Friday [Dec 13] Barbados Finance Minister Chris Sinckler announced cost-saving measures that could result in approximately 3,000 public sector employees on the island losing their jobs.

    Speaking in the Barbados Parliament, Mr Sinckler said they propose that the process be spread over the period January to March 2014, starting with the first 2,000 job cuts by January 15th 2014, followed by the second tranche no later than March 1st 2014.

    “Additionally, Cabinet has agreed to institute a strict programme of attrition across the central public service, filling posts only where it is absolutely unavoidable, over the next five years, ending 2018-2019. This attrition is expected to reduce central government employment levels from approximately 16,970 to 14,612 jobs,” Mr Sinckler continued.

    In addition, the Barbados Cabinet also agreed on a 10% cut in the salaries of all Ministers, Government MPs, Parliamentary Secretaries, Personal Assistants, and other persons designated as political appointees in the employ of the government, and a 50% cut in the external travel budgets of all ministries, and statutory boards.

    An IMF mission to Barbados that concluded this week said the country faced “considerable economic challenges.” According to the CIA World Factbook, Barbados had around $4.5 billion in external debt as of 2010, and their public debt-to-GDP ratio rose from 56% in 2008 to 83% in 2012.

    http://bernews.com/2013/12/barbados-plans-3000-public-sector-job-cuts/

    Like

  • William Skinner

    @ Artax
    What Vincent Haynes has injected is the biggest red herring ever on BU.
    Imagine a mechanic who after expenses makes 50 000 per year. He is earning more than bank clerks and teachers. However in our culture he is seen as the poor black man. Imagine a shopkeeper clearing somewhere between 30 000 per year and up. He or she is earning more than some graduates who are considered middle class.
    I know a graduate from UWI with an upper second degree in economics, in a management position whose salary is 30 000 per year. I know some beach vendors who make $800 BDS in a very slow week !
    It is in their interest to pay taxes and contribute to all the services they enjoy and also pay into the NIS to guarantee some income when they can no longer work. It is not about pressuring the poor black man ;it is about empowering him .
    I remember back in the 70s when teachers were earning below 700 per month, some hotel workers were earning that sum per week. Since then things have changed. We talk about the middle class but butchers, carpenters, fisherfolk and mini bus owners make a lot more money than some who are deemed middle class. This is why we must avoid institutions such as the IMF that dont really understand our economic culture.
    I knew a teacher who had some hens , who used to make more money from selling eggs than his teaching salary and he did not have any fowl farm.
    Paying taxes and contributions to the NIS is imperative because we simply cannot afford any free riders anymore. Everybody must pay as they earn.
    This whole concept about the “poor black man” has left them moving from pillar to post to trade their wares. We seem to like them in alleys with no proper facilities or establishing shanty towns . We need to lift them up and give them markets, and proper sanitary conditions, so that their children can inherit more than cardboard boxes and plywood with old galvanize.
    People are not empowered when they are kept in a state of mendicancy. Pay taxes and have a voice. Pay NIS and have some level of funds for the old age. VAT has nothing to do with that.

    Like

  • Good contribution William.

    Every single person over age 18 should be required to pay their fair share of taxes. Every adult should be registered and made to submit, at the very least, a simple basic tax declaration annually.

    It is the COMMUNITY-CENTRIC thing to do.

    A beggar who makes $100 should be asked to pay $5 in taxes and the Bizzys and Baloneys who makes $100M, should be asked to pay $90M in taxes.

    This way, EVERYONE would be making their fair contribution to society – based on their talents and abilities, and could feel themselves proud and productive members of that society.

    The VERY WORST shiite that you can do to a human being is to keep GIVING him stuff – like some damn pet. Human beings were designed to become like BBE themselves – not like animal pets who survive on handouts….with mendicant attitudes and rock-bottom self-images.

    This is one of your best contributions to date….. Pity you never got the chance to implement.
    Never mind Vincent….. He is Alvin’s second cousin….. 🙂

    Like

  • @ William

    I agree with your contribution 100% as well as Bushie’s response.

    During an economics lecture, the lecturer told us about a friend of his who makes up to $1,400 per week selling coconuts. He said the vendor would relax on Mondays to Wednesday watching DVDs, and go out on Thursdays and Fridays to buy coconuts for sale on Saturday & Sundays.

    $1,400 per week x 52/12 = $6,067 per month, and he does not contribute to the NIS fund or pay income taxes. Especially when compared to a clerk earning $3,000 per month, from which 10.1% is deducted for NIS and 16% for PAYE, who ALSO has to pay VAT on purchases as well.

    But because the vendor is conveniently categorize as the “small man” by certain members of society and makes purchases that may include VAT, gives him a “special compulsory entitlement” to a non-contributory pension and access to social services, off the backs of individuals earning half as much as he does.

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  • Ladies & Gents….I must say, except for a few personal ‘insults’ scattered among the comments, this discussion is one of the most logical & level-headed I’ve read in years. Please keep it going and resist the urge to personally attack contributors.

    Frustrated Businessman: enact Facilitation Martial Law! June 14, 2017 at 9:29 AM # and Artax June 14, 2017 at 1:32 PM # both expressed basic insight into the current situation and started this thread on a worthy course.

    Kudos to BU & David for keeping this site alive!

    Like

  • William Skinner

    @ Bush Tea and Artax

    It may amaze some of these so-called defenders of the poor black man that there are some of us who don’t have to parade because we have actively worked in the interest of poor Black people and have paid the expectant high price for so doing without one single regret.
    I remember a door man at one of the most prestigious south coast hotels building a three bedroom , very comfortable wall bungalow from the tips he received over a period of 15 or so years; he did not owe a penny for this incredible achievement . By my knowledge of real estate it probably cost him no more than $45 000 back then. Today that property is worth at least $250,000. He would have never been considered middle class by our confused standards ! During that period teachers and civil servants could not build a pig pen without a loan from the bank. It is the growth of the credit union movement that eventually allowed the “middle class” teachers, public servants and others to achieve what that “Poor Black man” lifting tourists bags had done 25 years earlier.
    Anybody who frequented the old Baxters Road would know that every night those establishments major clientele were the hotel workers and taximen. Not the so-call middle class who could only afford a piece of chicken once a week or month end.
    I have long maintained that there are many of us who do not understand how our economy functions. Regurgitating Central Bank statistics does not equate to any understanding of it.
    One of the most outstanding failures of the BLPDLP was not having the vision, to use the
    the tourist industry as a means to greater worker participation and the creation of real wealth for the poor black man. Many of the creative entrepreneurs in the industry were seen as beach bums and harrassers of the tourists. The hotel worker , who could at one time buy a little mini moke and rent it out to tourist had to abandon that venture because the entire hire car industry is now controlled by a selected few. And I can go on and on.
    And BTW the late Glenroy Straughn and myself were privileged to see letters written by some south coast hoteliers , among them Barbadians, who were doing everything possible to destroy the beach vendors trade, when we were intimately involved in trying to assist beach vendors.

    Like

  • LOL @ KS
    Boss, if you mean how Bushie does cuss Vincent…. you can tek it easy – Vincie and Bushie tight…. you should hear how Vincent does mash up the bushman – when he get the chance…
    Dat is Bushie own boy dey…. 🙂

    @ William
    You are a visionary who can see beyond the next corner. Unfortunately, you live in a world that has no place for such vision. Ours is a world controlled by dark forces with their OWN agenda …. an agenda framed in a spiritual perspective – which we to a very large extent refuse to even entertain….far less try to comprehend.
    We therefore are ignorant of the very GROUND RULES that are driving the nonsense we see all around us.

    Do not be surprised or even disheartened by the general rejection of your vision….. It is a good sign that you are on the right track.

    If fellows like yourself and Pacha would only delve into the BASIC GROUND RULES of life, wunna naturally bright people would be top notch world changers….

    @ Artax
    Bushie personally knows of many persons such as you speak of…. They would actually benefit themselves if they were to make their fair contribution to their communities. Very few of us recognise the IMMENSE benefits to personal self-esteem, continued success, personal enfranchisement, and most importantly, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, when such ‘successful’ persons are FULLY embraced as complete and valuable members of society – instead of being seen as ‘poor black scrunters’…….

    To keep a few dollars, such persons sacrifice their righteous CHARACTER and even their material success….

    ….but politicians LOVE the concept of keeping such masses of mendicant yardfowls at their beck and call….
    …right angela??!!
    LOL
    ha ha ha

    Like

  • It is really pathetic to hear the minister of finance on VOB’s 7.30 news begging………asking people to come up with suggestions……..they are not coming up any suggestions.

    My dear minister, to do your job as finance minister, we the taxpayers are paying you a very big salary every month with even hefty allowances to make your life easier and sweeter………….you told us arrogantly us………we do not want to hear anything from wunnah, wunnah had 14 years, now us we time, any ideas wunnah got keep to wunnah selves………and now you are surprised that accordingly to you not one idea is coming forward to help you all?

    Come on man, we have David, Artax, Miller, Bush Tea, Caswell, Frustrated Business Man, Bernard and many others here giving advice daily and you would not take an ounce of the advice……..You would not take our advice so now that you have finally realised that after nine years quoting Frustrated………

    “This is why removal of circulating cash by gov’t in the form of further taxation, investment notes and non-payment for local goods and services in an effort to save ForEx will cause economic recession in the coming months and not realise the tax income goals touted as the economy shrinks and economic activity is curtailed.

    We cannot tax ourselves into prosperity. Prosperity is only achieved when many people are involved in much economic activity and everyone takes their cut. No cash, no economic activity, no cut; economic disaster”……

    You all should resign now, you have admitted you cannot get the job done.

    Like

  • millertheanunnaki

    @ William SkinnerJune 15, 2017 at 1:41 AM
    “I knew a teacher who had some hens , who used to make more money from selling eggs than his teaching salary and he did not have any fowl farm.”
    “Paying taxes and contributions to the NIS is imperative because we simply cannot afford any free riders anymore. Everybody must pay as they earn.”

    Let me make it clear from the outset that I believe every person who benefits from the pool of goods and services provided by the government should in principle contribute to the cost of providing those ‘public goods’ by way of taxation based on the twin canons or principles of the ability to pay and/or in proportion to the quantity of direct benefits received or taken from the pool.

    However, you make it appear as if the responsibility to make contributions to the pool rests solely on the shoulders of these off-payroll tax dodgers comprised mainly of “butchers, carpenters, fisherfolk and mini bus owners {who} make a lot more money than some who are deemed middle class” aka that eponymous group called “the poor black man”.
    There is already adequate legislation on laws on the statute books to collect taxes from those off-payroll tax avoiders.

    The Income Tax Act requires that people in receipt of income (from any source) in excess of $25,000 per annum ($40,000 for pensioners) must file a tax return and pay any taxes due.
    So Billy, it’s just a matter of ‘ENFORCEMENT’; just like most laws in Barbados.

    The BRA has on its payroll an army of tax inspectors/assessors.

    Why not demand that they get off their lazy butts (as the health inspectors of old used to do) and go into the highways and byways of commercial/professional/trading activity to bring these people into the direct taxation net?

    We are sure if there were sufficiently competent tax inspectors in the field your teacher friend above would have to give an account of his earnings from his ‘hobby’ chicken business and pay over the additional taxes arising there from; a clear case of tax evasion on the part of you ‘teacher’ friend which you tacitly supported, even if innocently.

    Why not use the property (land) tax register and the list of car owners registered with the Licensing Authority to cross check that there is measure of ‘reasonable’ compatibility with those on the Income Tax roll?

    After all, the “poor black man” might be able to ‘hide’ his income. However, given his ‘mauby pocket but champagne taste’ lifestyle, there is no way he would avoid flaunting his conspicuous lifestyle in order to keep up with the salaried middle-class Jones.

    Why borrow foreign money to implement a sophisticated ICT system if it is not going to pay for itself?

    But why worry about the ‘poor-black-man’ tax dodgers? Isn’t the National Social Responsibility levy designed to take care of their tax evasion schemes even if many of their fellow (hardworking) poor black brothers and sisters are treated as mere collateral damage?

    The fault lies not in the acts of the tax dodgers but with those legally entrusted with the responsibility to make citizens pay their ‘fair’ share into the kitty to make Barbados a country that is “socially balanced, economically viable, environmentally sound and characterized by good governance”.

    Like

  • @William S
    Yours @1.41 am June 15, 2017

    What you have also inadvertently stumbled into is the matter of Education, here we are continuously grousing about the 11 plus and wishing for our children to go to “good” schools so they can grow up and obtain that “collar & tie” job and maintain an aura of respectability. There is nothing wrong with those jobs but some people are good at other things and have tremendous skills if they would pursue their dreams but because of parental and societal pressure are forced to live a miserable existence rather than live their own dreams. There is nothing wrong with being a mechanic, plumber, carpenter or other occupation if that makes you happy rather than living up to the expectations of others. Why do we have a surfeit of lawyers who end up fighting for every crumb and in some instances, resort to chicanery or outright theft to keep their clients’ money?

    We can blame it all on being educated under the Union Jack and importing British cultural norms of the into our own but although Britain has moved on we are stuck in the same place.

    Like

  • William Skinner

    @ millertheanunnaki

    Points well taken and understood.

    Like

  • Creating and maintaining a mendicant society is one of the reasons why the FOREIGN DEBT HAS BECOME UNMANAGEABLE.

    The same “small man” quarrels with government to build markets for them to ply their trade. Government borrows funds to finance the construction of a market. However, vendors refuse to apply for a vendor’s permit or use the facility and opt to sell on the streets.

    When pressed to use the market, the “small man’s” excuse is “people don’t come into the market” and would want government to advertise the market and his product on his behalf.

    The market is opened, without rent being collected and government has to maintain the environs as well as pay market staff.

    The same “small man” does not make any contribution to his trade, but the middle class has to endure increases in taxes and VAT to pay for the market, staff and extra duties Sanitation has to perform because the “small man” leaves the streets dirty.

    When the “small man” reaches 65 years, he expects to go into the NIS and receive a non-contributory pension after not making any contributions to the fund.

    And similar is undertaken by PSV operators who refuse to pay statutory commitments, but will argue for government to BUILD a terminal, and then park on the road.

    Government must borrow because VAT the “small man” pays is insufficient to provide all these goods and services or build a new market or a new terminal.

    It is the middle class and those who fulfill their statutory requirements that are burdened with taxes for the “small man” to benefit.

    Vincent…. This is UNFAIR!!

    Like

  • Frustrated Businessman: enact Facilitation Martial Law!

    And after all the points made and repeated here, we come right down to the DLP’s failures that got us to this point.

    Seven years ago I typed that the DLP gov’t was yet to take charge of the civil service to force business facilitation; that is still the case.

    Seven years ago I typed that the DLP gov’t was yet to engage with the players that make this country work and they were ‘driving blind’. That is still the case.

    Seven years ago I typed that the only exceptions to the lack of facilitation and engagement were to facilitate and engage the bribe-payers. That is still the case.

    Seven years ago I typed that the Cabinet didn’t speak to each other or the PM and could in no way create or articulate a comprehensive plan to move BDS forward. That is still the case.

    There was never going to be, and never will be, any economic recovery under Fumble’s Fools.

    Akani McDowell is the only man who can force an early general election and that is the only chance this country has of casting off these fools.

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington.

    @ David

    I hope you,like me , are observing the evolution of certain BU house members thinking and positions. It is fascinating. BU may evolve into a national think tank yet. Just hang in there.

    Like

  • @Bernard

    Surely you have copyrighted the words ‘evolve, evolution’?

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington. June 15, 2017 at 11:21 AM #

    “@ David: I hope you, like me, are observing the evolution of certain BU house members thinking and positions. It is fascinating.”

    Bernard

    This “thinking” is not new. Many of us have been advocating these positions for years and I have posted contributions on this issue on numerous occasions.

    Like

  • millertheanunnaki

    @ Frustrated Businessman: enact Facilitation Martial Law!June 15, 2017 at 11:16 AM
    “Akani McDowell is the only man who can force an early general election and that is the only chance this country has of casting off these fools.”

    Why only Akanni? What about the other unions?

    Don’t you think that poor McDowell might find himself out of a job because of the vindictiveness of the current administration?

    Don’t you think they would have any compunction about ‘disestablishing the post he presently fills?

    Would any in the private sector be prepared to engage his services after he has been ‘forcibly’ removed from the public sector?

    What about the private sector taking more seriously effective steps by withholding the tax payments until they are ‘forced’ from office which they are immorally and illegitimately occupying because of lies, broken promises and ‘witnessed’ vote buying?

    If the government can ‘delay’ payments of statutory deductions from its own employees’ salaries and rent to the BRA and NIS why can’t the private sector follow suit to show this administration the ball that shot Nelson?
    The people did not vote in 2013 for the crap being meted out to them.

    Like

  • There seems to be futility in our effort to exist. In just ten years if the government were to change we will be having this flavour of conversation both local and regional. The problem is bigger than some here want to admit.

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington.

    @ David

    Not at all.

    This particular topic started with an assumption that the sovereign debt was onerous.

    It was posited that debt was a substitute for tax revenues not levied and collected.

    The topic had an attachment which seems to be supporting the dictum that lowering the tax rate might lead to more revenue.
    The discussions that followed suggested that it may be so. But that it depended on the social / economic structure.
    Solutions came out of the discussions :
    (a} That there were administrative inadequacies that permitted certain substrata to avoid paying their fair share of taxes;
    (b) that the administrative system facilitated VAT collection at source but not transfer to the Treasury

    The discussion sought to point out the difference in purpose between National Insurance scheme contributions and payment of VAT by the small operators in the underground economy.
    That the drawers of noncontributory pensions are being unfair burdens to the contributors and those in captive occupations.

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington.

    @ Artax
    @ Miller
    @ David

    You survived 9 years . How come you cannot survive another 9 months? It took us 300 years to arrive at this point in our history. Do you want to squander the legacy which our forefathers sacrificed to leave us?This is a time to plan; not to lose courage and fortitude.

    Like

  • Barbadians in general have been fed a bowl of bull for lo too many years belivi g they can live off the hog and do nt have to feed him. The same anolgy apply to when govt impose any firm of taxation. Every bidy cry belly hurt.

    The same true can apply to Artax analogy that govt does not have to provide a measure of some form of security when trying to refinancingdebt.
    Every thing comes with a price and that include refinancing of sovereing debt and most of the time it is the social enviroment of. an economy that is traded off as collateral

    Like

  • millertheanunnaki

    @ Bernard Codrington.June 15, 2017 at 12:27 PM

    “This particular topic started with an assumption that the sovereign debt was onerous.
    It was posited that debt was a substitute for tax revenues not levied and collected.”

    Shouldn’t that have read: ‘debt is a form of ‘Deferred tax revenues’ to be levied and collected’?

    For sure, taxes must be levied and indeed collected in the future for the debt to be serviced.

    Just asking for enlightenment!

    Like

  • Miller

    However, you make it appear as if the responsibility to make contributions to the pool rests solely on the shoulders of these off-payroll tax dodgers comprised mainly of “butchers, carpenters, fisherfolk and mini bus owners {who} make a lot more money than some who are deemed middle class” aka that eponymous group called “the poor black man”.
    There is already adequate legislation on laws on the statute books to collect taxes from those off-payroll tax avoiders.
    ………………………………………………….

    ME

    Taxes to be reviewed to eliminate the small man from paying any as he will be caught in the VAT net and allow an equitable rate for the high end earners.

    I am dealing with the dying breed called the small poor man…..he does not own property,he rents or lives in a govt unit,he contributes his children to the state,he pays VAT……what more do you want from him?
    ……………………………………………………………

    Thanks Miller for dealing with the straw man/woman that Artax and William have put up only to drop serious lashes in it with the sanction of my washed in the blood buddy BT.I was not referring to them who as you have pointed out can be found only if govt did its work.

    I am dealing with the individuals that fall into the under $13,500.00 per annum tax free category which I would like raised gradualy to $20,000.00 over a 5 year period as per first para.

    I grew up in the country&lived most of my life in the country and was exposed to the individuals who built Bim by the sweat of their brows and continue to live by it,this dying breed still exists especially in the Scotland District and these are the ones I talking about.

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  • Artax, and your ilk,
    The official IDB reports that: “Barbados leads Caribbean and Central American countries as it relates to servicing debt. ”

    The most important part is that Barbados ..Services its debts. It pays off its loans. It shows that despite reports of downgrading etc etc, It pays its bills, and that should translate into a first rate credit rating. However in the face of the negativity the agencies still downgrade. They are looking at other factors, but it shows that the country is managing its financial obligations quite well. It is only the agents of gloom and doom that wish things could be different. All the government has to doc is keep the ship on an even keel and refrain from panicking and giving in. They just have to remain on the path chosen, and achieve the balanced budget they will get this coming year.

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington.

    @ Miller at 12:27 PM

    What I have written , I intended to write. All debts from the accounting and banking points of view are created at the point where expenditure exceeds revenue. Tax is government’s revenue. If revenue is short it creates a debt at the Central Bank,on its suppliers accounting ledgers, or issues debentures to individuals ,corporations etc.

    Of course you are quite free to adopt another sequence. It is all about perspective , is not so?

    Like

  • @ Alvin Cummins

    Can you refer to any paragraph, sentence or phrase in any of our contributions that mentioned Barbados “did not service its debt?”

    Alvin, you need to cease from your habit of misinterpreting what people contribute to suit the purpose of your agenda.

    Like

  • @ Vincent

    Perhaps it’s you who has created “the straw man/woman,” because the people to whom you refer re: “the individuals that fall into the under $13,500.00 per annum tax free category,” are adequately taken care of by the state and qualify to benefit from more social services than their middle class counterparts.

    Individuals in the category you alluded to, for example, can assess funds for operations, the NAB, UDC & RDC are also to cater to their various social requirements.

    Unfortunately, their “pride” plays an important role in preventing them from accessing these services.

    Like

  • @Bernard

    Advocacy by the citizenry is a right that must not be ring-fenced.

    Like

  • Wrong again, Angela Skeete

    Believing social services is an ASSET is a MISCONCEPTION that is prevalent among Barbadians.

    “The social environment of an economy (CANNOT be) traded off as collateral” because it is not an asset, but a liability to government.

    An international financial institution would never ask government to use, for example, the country’s tourism product to be “traded off as collateral,” because tourism is considered an “asset.”

    It is an investment that has value and is available to meet debts or commitments.

    One such commitment is social services.

    Another misconception is that the financial institutions would want government to “eliminate” social services.

    Under conditions of the type of loan you may be referring to, social services would be made available specifically for indigent or impecunious individuals and not for those who can afford them as is the case presently in Barbados.

    Additionally, many of those individuals who now qualify for social services would no longer meet that qualification if government decides to introduce “mean testing.”

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington.

    @ David at 3 : 32 PM

    We all have rights as citizens which we should exercise when necessary. However ,there comes a time when we exercise them so often that they become a nuisance and counter- productive. It is at this point that they become ineffective. It is advisable to keep one’s eyes on the ball.

    Head is not brain; and brain is not intellect.

    Like

  • Prodigies

    Stop your sissy lament !

    Who say the Dems cannot get the job done ??

    Because you and few charlatans keep saying so you believe the majority of Bajans mind wunnah ????

    Wunnah claim since 2008 :

    The Dems is a one term government !!!
    The economy gone crash !!!
    The tourists gine stop coming to Bim !!!!
    Foreign investors gine stop coming to Bim !!!

    Mia & Arthur gine mek up !!!

    Mia & Maria gine remain inseparable !!!!

    Tick the ones above that come to pass and you will see where your blasted PROBLEMS are …..!!!!

    And you could bet yuh last dollar as soon as the bell 🔔 ring…..Mia ass gone…..!!!!!

    Canuoan…..Canuoan Canuoan.,…!!!!!

    Get familiar with that word……yuh JOHHNIE……!!!

    The Dems don’t have to do nothing different

    Wunnah been calling for elections fuh years…,,, ah hope wunnah like the results …..!!!

    As ‘ To the Extreme ‘ sang this ……the country could falling down , the treasury can bun down…..we jamming still…..

    Go and rest yuh tiefing BLP arse…….

    Like

  • Not going to tally back and forth with you but anyone with a half of brain understands that creditors does not give something for nothing especially to small island developing nations with out of controlled debt.
    You are trying to argur putatoes against potato
    The bottom line being the art of the deal requires much manipulation hand wringing and the necessity for both country and creditor to work out arrangements that no side would walk away empty handed.
    As i said previously the lowering of interest rate is not a guarantee that the principal would decline faster and for that matter the time period of the loan would decrease which in some cases it would be extended
    Artax u can have the last word.

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  • Yes, Angela Skeete, I will DEFINITELY have the last word.

    It is obvious that you do not know anything about economic issues and yet you come to this forum to debate rhetorical political diatribe on every topic.

    You are a head-strong political yard-fowl who is so ignorant that not even you are aware of your ignorance. You love to argue shiite based on what you believe to be true and not on facts, especially when those facts are looking at you “straight in your face” and you hate to be PROVEN WRONG, which is more often than not.

    “Not going to tally back and forth with you, but anyone with a half of brain understands that” it is the height of STUPIDITY trying to compare debt consolidation of households and companies with that of a country, when there are significant differences between the two.

    In the future, please do some research before commenting on the economy. I can’t tell you to consult with Christopher P. Sinckler because he has been an abysmal failure as Minister of Finance.

    But then again, perhaps Sinckler is the person ADVISING you to write the shiite you try deceiving us are intelligent contributions to BU.

    Additionally, posting that Youtube video does not prove anything. With your level of intelligence, surely you do not expect BU to BELIEVE you WATCHED a video that is OVER 2 hours long and understood its content, ESPECIALLY with BLP candidate RYAN STRAUGHN being a PARTICIPANT in the discussion………..

    ……… when some articles posted to BU for “discussion” are three paragraphs long and you have significant difficulties understanding and responding appropriately?

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  • Like most so-called Caribbean experts, Michael Julien is utterly incompetent. His model of economic growth is based on rapid population growth, which is a recipe for continuing poverty and misery among the bottom half of the population.

    By any international standard, the Caribbean is overpopulated. We need fewer people, even though this raises the per capita cost of government. Fewer people means more land and capital per person, and more opportunities for saving. More saving can lead to more investment.

    A pity there is so much bad advice floating around.

    Like

  • millertheanunnaki

    @ Chad99999June 16, 2017 at 8:35 AM

    Chad, it is rare that I find myself on all fours and in perfect conjunct with your views on this matter.

    The Caribbean, especially Barbados, has too many unproductive and underemployed hands and mouths to feed given its limited and indeed declining economic generators.

    The number of excess hands in Barbados might have been suited to a more agrarian economy based mainly on sugarcane production but within a changing service-type economy characterized and driven more and more by ICT the number of unproductive people on hand after leaving school is clearly excess to requirements.

    The old axiom that “the devil finds work for idle hands to do” is certainly borne out by the massive crime wave sweeping across the region.

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  • Julien advice is placed on a foundation that an economy needs people for it to survive . A small island nation with a rapidly ageing population cannot sustain itself absence of population growth.

    Like

  • MTN

    I’m a good guy. You’re a good guy. I’m sure we agree on a lot of things!

    Like

  • Shiite!!!
    Chad, neither you nor Miller even know what ‘good’ is…
    so don’t be presumptuous.
    The most that we can say is that wunna two brass-bowls of a feather sometimes flock together…
    LOL
    ha ha ha

    Like

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