We have declared several times over the life of BU that we know little about religion and the issues which are attached to it. This is despite Bush tea goading us to blog on the subject from time to time. Don’t get us wrong! We believe in the one and only and give thanks as often as we can for all the blessings which have been bestowed on the BU household.
We thought long and hard about writing this blog but ‘ones conscience should always be used as the guide’. Did our eyes deceive us when we read Bishop Holder of the Anglican Church articulating his denomination’s position by saying that:
… he is prepared to support a recommendation to allow 16-year-olds to receive HIV testing and counselling without parental consent, provided the amended legislation included two other important stipulations. The first such stipulation is that there must be some other close relative such as an aunt or grandmother or adult counsellor present in that teenager’s life to offer ongoing support, especially if the support of parents or a guardian is not available and such testing proved the patient is HIV positive, said Dr John Holder
Source: Nation
How could this be?
We live in a time of heightened promiscuity, especially among our young people. Despite the ‘tales’ which we hear about the success Barbados is achieving in the fight against HIV (we have our doubts), we support any opportunity which would arm young people with the knowledge about their health, specifically regarding the dangerous HIV and AIDS disease. Against this position the BU household hold a contrary view to that of the Anglican Church which says that for a 16 year old to receive testing for HIV a relative must be involved in the process.
In our opinion the position enunciated by the Anglican Church though its Bishop Dr. Holder reflects how out of touch the Anglican Church has become with the reality of our current society. We do not live in a perfect society and decisions by the Church must be seen to be relevant if they are intended to help society to become better. We can be harsh on the Anglican Church more than the other denominations because of its reputed dominant position in Barbados. We say reputed because when we survey the congregations attending services in the Anglican Church across Barbados we see ‘older’ people. It begs the question what influence if any does Bishop Holder and the Anglican Church have on the youth in our society.
Here is an example of the symbolism of the Anglican Church being confused with the influence it currently has on a Barbados society. We do however applaud Bishop Holder for finally having the guts to come public on ANY issue, and we expect to hear more of it in the future. We think that the raised voice of the Anglican Church is coming 20 years too late. Given the HIV pandemic it seems a common sense position to us that any opportunity to test young people for HIV, it should be done unconditionally. We live in an era where young people routinely participate in sexual activity. It is paradoxical to believe that for the Anglican Church to refuse to support the testing of young people for HIV is immoral, think about it! The reality is that some children have delinquent parents and no family support structures. Invariably it is the children of dysfunctional homes that become wayward in behaviour and may need help such as testing for HIV to help them manage their lifes.
The Anglican Church needs to go back to the drawing board to assess its relevance to the Barbados society.
Why can’t they attract some more young priests who can connect with the young ones?
We received a comment on this blog which we have posted unedited:
The church needs to use Andrew Hatch as their marketing man.
He can tell them what he had before the church and what he has now after…….
BU said
‘It is paradoxical to believe that for the Anglican Church to refuse to support the testing of young people for HIV is immoral, think about it!’
What on earth does this sentence mean?
Here are some questions for you.
David have you ever thought you had AIDS? Ever had an AIDS test? How was the waiting period? Were you in anguish or did you feel joy? Do you think a 16 yr old is mentally able to deal with a death sentence or even the thought of death from a disease like AIDS? Do you know how dangerous regret is?
Also noticed this thread is not getting any comments. You have any idea why?
A while back a GP, and a very good friend figured that the knowledge of being HIV +ve was more likely to cause a person issues like depression and even suicide. He recommended that one should live not to give it and also not to get it. But who on this earth wants to take responsibility for himself/herself?
I always thought that we are fighting a losing battle against the AIDS epidemic but recent events convinced me of this.
As far as I am concerned the disease was handled badly in the first case. We sowed the wind therefore we are reaping the whirlwind.
It is a lost battle unless a cure is found. So whether you agree with the Church’s position or not is of little consequence and therefore just a talking point.
A man always hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. Ergo people including me, do what they will regardless of the warnings you or God may issue.
Sam Gamgee we understand fully that this is fairly morbid territory. people are reading if they are not driven to comment. Remember this is what blogging is all about. The blogger gives an opinion on a subject matter which hopefully will get public consumption i.e. get read.
Anyway to your points:
please remember that we have drugs on the market which can prolong the lifes of HIV infected people.
Don’t you think the risk to be caused to a society by a HIV active teenager should be identified ASAP to curtail the spread?
About the question you don’t understand we feel that it is immoral for the Anglican Church to identify roadblocks. The issue here is to protect the society.
D, I told you my position. It is a lost battle. The only thing that AIDS testing seems to have caused is stigmatisation. I can understand the +ve pregnant women being tested and treated, but unsafe sex is a lifestyle choice one makes, unless one was raped and then that is treated differently.
We all have to bear responsibility for our lives. It does not matter what opinion I hold or you, people have to make choices everyday and I am sure we all make terrible ones a lot of the times.
The bishop can pussyfoot all he wants or say nothing about anything as usual ( I do agree with you on that score) but at the end of it all, the individual must make a choice. For good or evil. Testing I am sure, comes after the damage has already been done. The numbers do not provide any comfort for me.This world is not going to get any better this side of the second coming of Christ, so I have no illusions there.
Hope lives eternal my good man!
There is stigmatization but we have to weight that up against the HIV disease and the real possibility that our youngest and brightest can be wiped out. We are sure that you have seen what has happen in Africa.
The Church which has been set-up as the moral leader has failed the people.
I am no longer an Anglican (4o years now) but I am proud of all that I recieved in that church growing up as a boy into my teens in the 60’s.
The Anglican church was disestablished in 1969 and since then its influence in Barbados has waned rapidly with the spread of more evangelical church groups.
It is difficult and probably unfair to say that the Anglican church or any church group in Barbados has failed the people, because the people no longer see the church or the school etc as the moral leader.
Our country, like most of the world has adopted the position as taught in the book of Judges at 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: EVERYMAN DID THAT WHICH WAS RIGHT IN HIS OWN EYES.
We live in a world of relativism. There are no standards. Nothing is any longer right or wrong, or black or white (except when we want to be racial).
Very few of our citizens will admit that they seek to be under the authority of the KING of KINGS or his Holy Word.
At any rate the Anglican church or any church group has no right to comment on what is really a public health matter. It is the Ministry of Health and The Public Health Dept to decide what policies are most expedient for the preventative health of our people.
The Church’s role is to teach the word, which is said in 2 Timothy 3;16 to be profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction in righteousness. To go further is not the church’s mandate.
I am therefore forced to agree with BU’s position that “Given the HIV pandemic it seems a common sense position to us that any opportunity to test young people for HIV, it should be done unconditionally. We live in an era where young people routinely participate in sexual activity. It is paradoxical to believe that for the Anglican Church to refuse to support the testing of young people for HIV is immoral, think about it! The reality is that some children have delinquent parents and no family support structures.” Invariably it is the children of dysfunctional homes that become wayward in behaviour and may need help such as testing for HIV to help them manage their lifes. .”
I do not see how it would work for the law to command the presence of an adult relative in th elife of a hiv positive 16 or 17 year old. In an ideal world an adult relative would be asked to be present and would want to be present, but I doubt that the law can command thier presence. Maybe however the law can command a social worker to be present so that ongoing support can be offered. Social workers are paid professionals and can therefore be commanded by the state. Less we forget parenting is voluntary and like it or not many parents can and do wish to quit parenting when once their off-spring reaches 16. I do not see how the law can command them (far less aunts, grandmothers etc.) to be present. I am an Anglican and yes the Anglican church remains relevant, but in this instance I think that the Bishop needed to give a more thoughtful, more nuanced response.
J is this not part of the problem. We have a pandemic of epic propotions which in our view calls for non traditional approaches if we are to safe our nation, instead we get bog down in legalities. We have to take charge of our little country, the repercussion of not doing so will be far flung!
I think that if you went out and spoke to most 16year olds they do (and should) have a ” support person” outside of their immediate family to turn to. I don’t think that there is anything wrong with mandating counseling and/or support at all.
Put yourself in the position of a 16yo with HIV: you would likely be terrified, maybe not able to understand all of the medical facts– both of which factors may lead to further risky actions. If you are 16 and brave enough to be tested to me that means that you are coming to terms with your actions. These are the situations where a support person or counselor should be present whether the young person is HIV+ or not to get this young person on the right road be it living with AIDS or staying negative.
Perhaps we should make it the law to be tested to entrance to sixth form or tertiary educational institutions or the civil service.
I had to be tested twice as a provisor to get work permits to work in two of our contiguous islands.
Georgie Porgie // April 14, 2008 at 11:00 am
‘Perhaps we should make it the law to be tested to entrance to sixth form or tertiary educational institutions or the civil service.’
GP, I must be missing something. Let’s say someone gets tested at what ever age; alone or with company. Let’s also say the result is -ve or +ve. What on earth, other than my bloody conscience will make me behave in a responsible way to neither get AIDS or give it?
What is the use of the test except for maybe the isurance companies to not accept an aplication, or for the USA to refuse to give an alien card or something?
I am just missing what is the point of having an enforced AIDS test unless one has been raped or is pregnant so that treatment can be given.
Note I have no problem with anyone having an AIDS test for whatever reason they might want it , but no one can legislate sexual behaviour or the results associated with it.
GP you have to give a real good reason for that comment above. I am sure somebody already told you that you need to come home and take a vacation. Where on earth that comment came from and where is it supposed to go?
application
Sam Gamgee: there are steps that can be taken, ie. diet, exercise, drug therapy to control HIV before it leads to full blown AIDS. Have we forgotten about Magic Johnson?
Basic Health Education is sorely needed in Barbados.
I don”t agree with a mandatory test in any way as I wouldn’t trust this or any government with that private data.
Sam Gamgee
GP you have to give a real good reason for that comment above. I am sure somebody already told you that you need to come home and take a vacation. Where on earth that comment came from and where is it supposed to go?
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No I dont!
Quid dixi scripsique dixi scripsique !
Also I said what I liked, and I liked what I said.
You are free to respond as you like also.
‘No I dont!
Quid dixi scripsique dixi scripsique !
Also I said what I liked, and I liked what I said.
You are free to respond as you like also.’
Written like a doctor with no defence and no mal-practice insurance.
LOL
Why do you need mal practice if you dont practice bad medicine man?
Anyway, I teach these days.
By your arguement though, the state ought to stop demanding that children be vacinated against polio measles mumps etc before entering primary school. All of these are viral illnesses.
And in fact, when we give these viruses we are giving sometimes a live attenuated form of the virus. In AIDS testing we do not give any virus.
when we give these vacines it should read
GP how did you manage to equate having a compulsory AIDS test to having an MMR vaccine?
Now if you were talking about an AIDS vaccine who could find fault? Somebody I am sure.
You should recall the furore over whether a vaccine against cervical cancer (HPV)should be compulsory in young teenage girls.
You surely know that the great St. Augustine left the western world with a more than unhealthy attitude to sex and our sexuality.
So we prefer to be surprised when our kids show up pregnant, test +ve for AIDS, have other STDs, in short when it comes to sexuality we prefer the don’t ask don’t tell scenario.
Go ahead tell me I am wrong. I’ll be laughing.