Tales from the Courts – Jumpstarting the Barbados Courts XVIII

Marston Gibson, Chief Justice (l) Andrew Pilgrim QC

Marston Gibson, Chief Justice (l) Andrew Pilgrim QC

A thought provoking outburst by former President of the Barbados Bar Association Andrew Pilgrim published in today’s press. He is probably right about the need to installed more judges on the bench, BUT surely it also has a lot to do with the quality of judges appointed. Of course not to be forgotten is the pressing need to streamline certain rules.

Regarding the streamlining of rules, BU’s legal fraternity offers the  pre-trial motion as an example. If we were to measure against the Ontario model, it is routine for a pre-trial motion to be conducted via a telephone conference call supported by fax machine – see specimen of Ontario’s Affidavit of Service. In the Ontario model BU understands that in complex motions,  lawyers may file “Factums”, which are statements of fact and law, which may include copies of cases to support their contentions along with their arguments. In this scenario all parties and the judge would have read relevant documents in advance of the telephone conference and are prepared to argue their cases. Sometimes the judge will rule on motions providing reasons for their judgements to follow as well as the order they give.

Some may find the the fact that a judge in the Ontario model will rule on motions, deliver reasons for  judgements to follow etc. Often the judge will hand write the reasons and the judgement on the Notice of Motion itself and this is faxed by the court to all counsel – see specimen of Ontario’s Notice of Motion.

We turn to the Barbados model (used loosely).

By contrast, in Barbados, you go before the Court at the start of the trial. Without any notice, counsel on both sides will bring their motions before the judge, usually in limine motions and some of the motions will be quite complex. The judge will then adjourn the case to consider his or her decision on the motions. AND YOU CAN WAIT YEARS BEFORE THAT DECISION IS GIVEN AND THE CASE CAN PROCEED. In the Ontario system, because the judge has all the arguments in writing before them BEFORE the motion is heard OVER THE TELEPHONE, decisions are given usually at the end of the day on which they are heard, but no later than the day after, and at the same time, the court will propose a series of hearing dates for the case to then begin, with all documents to be filed by a certain date in advance of the hearing.

Back to Andrew Pilgrim QC and his opinion that more judges need to be recruited. This will not solve the backlog problem being experienced in Barbados unless the system is streamlined by making changes to the Civil Procedure Rules. Operating on the premise that one should not try to reinvent the wheel BU direct those interested to view the full list of Ontario Court forms – see links one and two.

We agree with Pilgrim’s final point that  hearing of things like bail applications from Dodds by video conference, will not substantially speed things up as the CJ Gibson is suggesting. The key to fast tracking these matters lie in ensuring that all documents and a detailed summary of witness statements are before the court in writing, and for the judge to be fully seized of the matter BEFORE cases are heard.

Can this be done in Barbados? Hell yes! The question therefore is why the heralded CJ Gibson has not decided to forego the social circuit and allocate same man-hours to jump starting our wheezing court system.

90 comments

  • Question: Can a Magistrate ‘dismiss’ a case in the absence of the accused’s lawyer?

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  • Who is this jack ass jumping all over the blog with different handles … Is this just another attempt at frustrating the blog master …?

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  • I do think that the writer of this might have resisted the temptation to employ ‘legalese’. It adds nothing and will only cause ordinary readers to give up or treat the blog as a Citizen’s Advice Bureau (see ‘Nellie’).

    BAF

    Nice to hear your voice after such a long break.

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  • The expected from you Ross, all is well with our Courts. We all know you are part of the problem.

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  • David

    You are being very siily…well, no, stupid. Ask BAF or any other non-lawyer what “in limine” means.

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  • @Ross

    As usual you enter a space where the desirable approach is to be specific in your argument, as usual you come with sound bite bullshit. Be off!

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  • @ David:

    We have heard from our friend Amused recently.
    Come on Amused, where are you? We miss you.
    Here is a continuing thread right up your street.

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  • @ millertheanunnaki | September 19, 2013 at 8:13 AM |

    Should read: “We have [NOT] heard from our friend Amused recently”.
    Error of omission regretted.

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  • You poor thing.

    Look…and try and understand the point. It is VERY simple.

    I find nothing inevitably wrong with the substance. But then I’m a lawyer. My point is that the post assumes everyone is a lawyer – and thereby you create a mystique which may well impress the gullible but does little in fact to advance your cause. It is actually another way of saying “we lawyers are very special people, clever people – in fact a race apart”. …..and that, in fact, runs counter to what you’re trying to put across; OR it will make people latch on to the simple journalistic stuff without understanding how you got there – and THAT is sleight of hand. But then you’re well known for that.

    As a matter of fact…are you really so self-important that you can’t take criticism?

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  • Miller

    You rightly divine that this post was not written by Amused. For all his failings – bless him – he writes (usually) very well.

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  • @Miller

    People take breaks from time to time for whatever reason.

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  • Ross you may have the last word and hopefully you wont drown in your fluff. Be off stands.

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  • The CJ is correct in his attempts to shine a light on the situation by making things available to the public for its scrutiny and in a timely fashion. The forms can come from Mars, if it is the intent of the functionaries in the system to obfuscate and engage in meaningless jargon, the roadblocks will continue. The ADR was intended to be rolled out during this law term and the CJ should not allow the turf protectors to derail his efforts in this regard. A few suggestions: All motions on notice to the adversary. NO MORE EX PARTE MOTIONS. Enforce timelines, deadlines where provided for in the court rules. Give the judges research staff (Cavehill students for credit as suggested by the CJ). Create a functional barrier between Registry and the Courts after litigation commenced, registry staff should not be in possession of court files. Registry’s function should be limited to recording court decisions for the public’s benefit. The case management device needs to be in the hands of a person whose remit is to push the court’s calendar in spite of dilatory counsel. And yes, hearing by video will save, fuel, human resources and if properly managed scarce judicial resources.

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  • I ent a lawer, but why not pause every thing and go on a first come first serve basis, then all the important classes will get hear first, and after the glut go back to normal.

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  • I think we need a Chief Justice. Instead we got a US inclined Referee with all the facial expression to go with the cocktail circuitry and more at home with the US ‘these 70’s era hairdo’Ambassador

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  • The court system in Bim is the laughing stock of the world, they have earned that right to be laughed at…………LOL!!

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  • David

    Man lef Ross nah … My God the man is clearly no ass, and deserving of the respect that is afforded the more gifted of your following. Come on man, you treat ac and CCC and others far better than Ross. What is being called for is fair play, NOT fear play …!

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  • BTW Ross

    I don’ have a clue wah “in limine” means …!

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  • PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926-2013 AND SEE MASSIVE FRAUD ,LAND TAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS

    A thought provoking outburst by former President of the Barbados Bar Association Andrew Pilgrim published in today’s press. He is probably right about the need to installed more judges on the benchA thought provoking outburst by former President of the Barbados Bar Association Andrew Pilgrim published in today’s press. He is probably right about the need to installed more judges on the bench@

    We bet he love to make judges from the same crooks of VIOLET BECKLES list of crooks, A.P needs to do his work and not push crooks to be a judge. If he does his work we will see who need to be a judge. Dis-BAR the crooks make all things clear.We know Thorne and Chase want to be a judge, why not make Sir Ham a judge so he can rule in his favor as a good crook.The record of each lawyer need to be looked at , If leave to the CJ all those WEASEL AND PROFIT making crooks,, will not make the grade, CJ need to have ask for open Mike and give time to receive complaints which the BAR block from Justice. Pilgrim ,,,, Go to Hell , defend the people and not the crook lawyers , ass backwards BAR – man have a drink

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  • These jokes see nothing wrong with the attorney who is working for the plaintiff more often than not being same the attorney also working for the insurance company (defendent) and also sitting on the board of directors of the same insurance company (personal injury cases) how many times have these conflict of interests not only clogged up the court system but directly affected the plaintiff because his/her attorney is a two bit thief with no qualms about double crossing his/her client and being paid off by the insurance company to sell out the claimant his/her client.

    Why can’t these personal injury claims be settled using ADR? because the lying, selfish and greedy insurance company is praying that the plaintiff (claimant) would die and therefore they drag the matter through the ‘court system’ for anywhere between 9-15 or 20 years so as not to accept liability or pay out the insurance claim, how evil, stupid and down right greedy, the lawyers who are just as vicious and disgusting aid in this little scam, no one cares that it further clogs up the system for years, when these pigs grow tired of going to court for years, they just pay someone to make the file disappear out of the registry, even the judgment handed down by the Judges have been known to disappear from the registry, how despicable.

    I have never known personal injury cases to last more than 18 months in the US before settlement, unless there were complicated circumstances involved. In Barbados, they must make the injured claimant/plaintiff suffer for years on top of the injuries and misery the party already suffered.

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  • Plantation…………i understand they are giving the new CJ hell in Bim just because he is trying to unclog the system and make some changes………..they much prefer to keep on running their corrupt ‘court system’ into the ground as long as there is something in it for them, payoffs and ruining other people’s lives.

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  • @Baf

    There if Google.

    Ross started it and he will be regarded as hostile to BU. And there is evidence to support our position. If he disagrees with a BU position state it and leave the snide bullshite at the door.

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  • Well Well

    I think that you are the laughing stock.

    I cant understand how one so called Bajan can hate Barbados as much as you.

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  • David

    You think of Ross, a man that I don’ have a single problem with, as I have thought of Amused for years … Hmmm… I since have admitted that I was wrong about Amused …

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  • Carson C. Cadogan | September 19, 2013 at 3:17 PM |

    Well Well

    I think that you are the laughing stock.

    I cant understand how one so called Bajan can hate Barbados as much as you.
    ______________________________

    Carson……….knowing that you are of limited intellect, i am not surprised you would call that hate…….i also know you have no problem condoning corruption, abuse of the court system and the victimization and discrimination of your own people, you total jackass who do not want to see Barbados become a better place but would prefer see the scumbag lawyers wallow in their filth and destroy what is left of the country.

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  • Carson………by the way, the Grenadian PM Mitchell was man enough to come clean with the Grenadian people about the state of the economy and give the voters who elected him in a landslide the information and what is necessary to get the help they need from the IMF, now that is what i call a real man……..knowing that you are the top yardfowl for the DLP what can you tell us about the state of Barbados’ economy and if your PM is man enough to tell the taxpayers of Barbados the truth.

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  • From Carson C. Cadogan | September 19, 2013 at 3:17 PM |
    To Well, Well: “I cant understand how one so called Bajan can hate Barbados as much as you.”

    The same thing can be said of you, Carrion black boy. In your eyes Barbados was the worst place to live with a openly corrupt administration during the reign of the BLP under OSA the Seethru drunk and incompetent idiot who caused the Jamaican economy to end up in the IMF hands and aided and abetted his cronies in selling out Barbados to foreigners in return for $800 million which ended up in their overseas private bank accounts and real estate holdings in the Cayman Islands and other “unclean” jurisdictions like Bermuda Turks & Caicos and your bête noir St. Lucia.

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  • @ Well Well

    Agree, the court system in BIM is amusing as is those in government. Raul Garcia served three years beyond his sentencing but was no longer a prisoner. Then there is that Violet Beckles matter, Government can’t hide it but runs from it. This one, this one Well Well (poster) love it; a sitting judge in BIM allowed prisoners to go home (England) for Christmas holiday, expecting them to return to BIM and go to prison.

    There is nothing like a good laugh, BIM.

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  • PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926-2013 AND SEE MASSIVE FRAUD ,LAND TAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS

    Well Well ,Grenadian PM Mitchell was man enough to come clean.@

    Agree, MIA was just in Bequia to see Sir James Mitchell, for what We did not ask him , But she need not to go so far when there is a Mitchell here in Barbados to ask for advice ,,, loollolo

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  • David

    You can threaten as much as you like. It is of no concern to me. Nor does the idiocy answer the point I made. IF that was being hostile to BU so be it. Live with it and languish in your misplaced vainglory. You have a very special track record David. For myself – and speaking from the advantage of so many past encounters with you – yes, I am hostile – to lies, misrepresentation and distortion – and now also, it seems, to sheer nonsense.

    BAF

    LOL. ‘In limine’ – Well at least I got that one right.

    I hope Amused isn’t ill. If he is then I hope someone will send good wishes. Ditto if he’s in prison or, actually, anywhere else.

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  • @ Miller

    Is there much more exctement in BIM, other than the Miller’s foot dans bouche dame?

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  • I sincerely hope the new CJ can change the climate of disgusting victimization in the court system as it relates to personal injury cases et al, yes Carson, Bim is indeed a laughing stock because of the corrupt court system condoned by the likes of you and your ilk.

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  • ‘Bim a laughing stock’

    Will someone please provide clear and unimpeachable evidence that the “world” regards us in this way.

    Well Well,,,I think this is yours.

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  • But if they streamline the system and remove the need for excessive appearances by attorney’s, the attorney’s will make less money, do you really think they want this?

    We’re far too laid back to care. People in developed countries care about things like this, like justice for the average man on the Clapham omnibus. And it offends them when there are miscarriages of justice.

    Here, we only care if it affects me. Me. Me. Me. We would read an article in the paper about a court case and go “ah interesting”. Someone else with a more developed mind would go “I’m going to galvanize some sort of protest against this here, raise public awareness”

    So developed country simply means, people’s minds are developed enough to care about other people.

    We model all of our decisions, law, policy off of developed countries. When was the last time we enacted reform because it would benefit us WITHOUT being pressured to do so with black lists, watch lists and other forms of sanctions.

    When was the last time the Government made some sort of decision, policy or law that was for the development of the people without being pressured with a black list, watch list or sanction.

    We only passed human trafficking laws because of being placed on tier 2 of a human trafficking watch list. We only put in place money laundering laws because of black list threats, not that the laws are actually enforced.

    There are no visionaries or progressive thinkers leading this country. Want a new law? Get a draft from the UK statute, change it around a bit and it’s ours.

    But look at what people are agitating for, to smoke herb. For herb to be legal. What’s that say about us, that the only issue we can spearhead is to allow people to be legal dopies. We want to be allowed to be legal potheads! Our governments have united, the people are united, make pot legal.

    We’d be better off if we were still a colony under Britain. Because as it is now we got the shitty end of the deal. We got ‘independence’ and gave power to a form of government that is totally unacountable to the people.

    This illusion of independence has served to line a very elite class pockets with the hard work of the man on the Clapham omni bus.

    People wouldn’t mind if this country was crap and we were progressively trying to fix it, but it is crap and it can never be fixed, because no one cares enough.

    So go to work, snicker on your bb and whatsapp, come home, snicker some more on your bb and whatsapp, watch some illegally downloaded pirated movies, while snickering on bb and whatsapp, curse the Government from your home ( like they care ). Go to sleep, get up, and repeat.

    That is the life of the average bajan. When they are not fucking each other’s men/women and smoking pot.

    Good night, God Bless.

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  • Stupse, another failure.

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  • Enuff

    HA HA HA HA HA …. Man yah crack mah up ….. HA HA HA … My apologies to the offended … It was funny .. Uh hum…!

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  • Posh wrote ..”We want to be allowed to be legal potheads! ”
    But Posh, we have had legal drunks for centuries, remember?

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  • robert ross | September 19, 2013 at 6:32 PM |

    ‘Bim a laughing stock’

    Will someone please provide clear and unimpeachable evidence that the “world” regards us in this way.

    Well Well,,,I think this is yours.
    ______________________________________

    Ross…………i do believe the onus is on you to provide clear and unimpeachable evidence that the ‘world’ DOES NOT regard you in this way.

    Let me give you a story, someone i knew had a nasty accident, you don’t need details other than that CLICO was the insurer David Thompson was the attorney for the claimant/plaintiff, unknowingly to the claimant/plaintiff, David Thompson was also the attorney for CLICO, after nearly 9 years of being run around by Thompson as well as the insurance company, the plaintiff/claimant confronted Thompson who then made a phone call to CLICO, Thompson did not realize that his client, the plaintiff/claimant overheard him telling the other party on the line that the ‘nuisance was in his office confusing him about money’, after relating to the story to a friend, the plaintiff/claimant was then informed that David Thompson was in fact also the attorney for CLICO and was flim flamming her, for years he pretended to be her friend. Her new attorney also tried some tricks and she had to resort to going to the registrar to finally have the case completed to her benefit. The same female did tell me that she will make sure the world knows about the nasty, scumbag lawyers in Barbados, everyone she meets will be told about the dirty and corrupt legal system on the island, she also mentioned that Thompson will never enjoy becoming Prime Minister, I guess that one came to pass, do you not think so? Leslie Haynes is also known to sit on insurance company boards, represent the insurance companies all unknowing to the plaintiff/client and spend years ruining their case.

    In saying that, Ross, I am sure the next example i give will be about you……don’t stop pushing me, just keep right on, you are doing a fantastic job.

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  • LOOK……………there are so many examples of the rot in the local court system, so many more lawyer’s names to call.

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  • Telling points Posh! Telling points with accuracy.

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  • Ross…………as a matter of fact, let me give you that story about Leslie Haynes right now, a young man had an accident, Haynes was his attorney, years passed and the young man cannot hear anything from Haynes, the file is misplaced, one lie after the other, he even tried to make the young man believe that his case was hopeless and could not be won. A good soul finally told the young man that Leslie Haynes also sat on the same insurance board that his client was suing so it was useless believing the scum will ever complete the case to his benefit, cannot serve two masters, he was given the name of another attorney who looked into the case, one of the very few honest ones on the island, within one year he had his settlement. Why was the young man’s case not going anywhere, because his attorney Leslie Haynes was also a director for the same insurance company, conflict of interest, no ethics, no morals.

    Of course the likes of you and useless yardfowl Carson would only be too happy to condone lawyers treating their clients in that disgraceful manner indefinitely, no problem seeing your own people mistreated, abused and victimized, no concept of conflict of interest, just bottom of the barrel scum behavior.

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  • Ross…….feel free to ask me anymore questions, you have the floor.

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  • Whats up with the American Ambassador’s hair
    Shaggy Bear is looking for a mate

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  • Well Well

    I do wonder why you left Barbados. Poor thing. Was someone nasty to you?

    You answer my question with spleen but no substance – in short, all mouth but no balls.

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  • Posh

    I think you have a very exaggerated idea of how things work in ‘developed countries’. In my experience those countries are as corrupt as any other – it’s hidden behind an Oxford accent that’s all.

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  • @Miller, Baffy and all my friends. I am back at last, but swamped by work. I completely agree with all that David has said.

    As far as the use of legalese is concerned, Ross, I am constantly surprised and refreshed by how many non-lawyers do indeed understand it. In any case, it is not difficult for the minority of readers who do not understand it to find out what it means. A visit to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_in_limine provides the definition given by Black’s Law Dictionary as being, “a pretrial request that certain inadmissible evidence not be referred to or offered at trial. A motion in limine is used to get a ruling to allow for the inclusion of evidence, not only to get a ruling as to whether or not evidence will be precluded from trial. They are made “preliminary”, and it is presented for consideration of the judge (or arbitrator or hearing officer) to be decided without the merits being reached first.”

    Accordingly, as you, Ross, have agreed (and I would have startled if you had not) it is desirable that all these pre-trial motions be heard expeditiously, with adequate notice given to the judge and opposing counsel, BEFORE the trial commences.

    I differ with Wikipedia on one thing in their exposition. They refer only to criminal matters. However, in our jurisdiction (and many others) as Ross can confirm, in limine motions are not in any way restricted to criminal proceedings, but are also widely used in civil actions.

    As said, I completely agree with David’s excellent and insightful report. Years ago, I remember staying with a Canadian lawyer friend of mine from Toronto at his holiday home in the Muskokas. I was present when, on a boat in the middle of the lake, he conducted a telephone conference call with the judge and other counsel in one of his cases, on his cell phone. I was moved to tears when we returned to the house, to find sitting there on his fax machine waiting for him, was a faxed copy of the judge’s handwritten order in respect of the motion. Tears, because I reflected that in our jurisdiction (Barbados) we could wait months if not years for a decision on such a pre-trial motion before the substantive case could be heard. That, I thought to myself, is how courts ought to operate but, in Barbados, certainly do not.

    Therefore, I agree that while a sound system of video-conference hearing might well be seen as a measure of speeding up the process in Barbados, in fact, it will have little or no effect and is just a sticking plaster on a severe adbdominal wound from which the patient is bleeding out. Worse, it is smoke and mirrors designed to make it look s if the new CJ knows that he is doing, which he does not; or actually doing something, which he is not.

    The solution is, as Andrew quite rightly says, more judges. But for the love of God, do not appoint judges that are as legally and intellectually inept as the bunch of morons we now have sitting on the bench. And fire that bunch of morons. Which the PM, by the Constitution) has the right to commence the process of doing.

    Back to work for me and it is wonderful to be back in Barbados and absolute depressive torture to have to go into the courts in Barbados to observe the rapidly detriorating justice system that I (wrongly) thought (and assured all the BU readers – mea culpa and I admit it yet again) this new CJ (well not new now) would have the competence to stop.

    Believe me, it is getting worse, much worse.

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  • JUST ASKING | September 19, 2013 at 10:46 PM

    Sir K Dwight Venner’s hair looks similar for years, and I don’t hear you saying anything.

    But the difference in your opinion seems to be that you think that the American Ambassador is too close to the DLP. As usual you are incorrect.

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  • robert ross | September 20, 2013 at 2:05 AM |

    Well Well

    I do wonder why you left Barbados. Poor thing. Was someone nasty to you?

    You answer my question with spleen but no substance – in short, all mouth but no balls.
    _______________________________-

    Ross……….so you admit you lawyers on that small island are corrupt, nasty, lying and thieving and dishonest i believe there is hope for you yet. you just admitted the absolute rot in the court system.

    Let me tell you what happened to me and put your mind at rest, some years ago i spent some time in Barbados and interacted with two lawyers re business, suffice it to say they both lived to regret trying to victimize me,
    Why you may ask??

    1) I don’t make a very good victim
    2) I have a very memorable personality

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  • @ robert ross | September 20, 2013 at 2:12 AM |
    “In my experience those countries are as corrupt as any other – it’s hidden behind an Oxford accent that’s all.”

    You are right there, RR. They are many ‘sophisticated crooks’. The revelations about the banking ‘practices’ in the City and other money capitals e.g. Lehman Brother, and now JP Morgan present convincing evidence to support your statement.
    However, there is one redeeming quality that separates those countries with the sophisticated crooks from the Oxonian club from the banana republics is that there are similarly well appointed jails and rules that deprive them of their social freedom and ill-gotten gains unlike what prevails is places like Russia and even Little but certainly less sophisticated England.

    In Bim the biggest crook- although not a graduate from the HC illuminati of the Cawmere mafia- walks around incarcerated in a morally circumscribed jailhouse but with the full knowledge he would never have to suffer the indignity of giving up his two jags or having to bend down to pick up the soap in Dodds since he has carte-blanche protection from the big judge who still sees him as a pal and an estimable gentleman even if depriving people of over $400 million through a mechanism of a legally underwritten pyramid of fraud.

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  • robert ross | September 20, 2013 at 2:12 AM |

    Posh

    I think you have a very exaggerated idea of how things work in ‘developed countries’. In my experience those countries are as corrupt as any other – it’s hidden behind an Oxford accent that’s all.
    ________________________

    Is that your excuse in justifying why the lawyers/politicians in Barbados are so corrupt, i guess in your evil little mind it’s okay to be corrupt as long as the big countries do it, we can do it also. you however neglected to say that in those countries, when you are caught you go to to prison, you do the crime, you do the time, tell me it is the same in Barbados.

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  • Ross………..do you remember the below paragraph from last night??

    “Thompson did not realize that his client, the plaintiff/claimant overheard him telling the other party on the line that the ‘nuisance was in his office confusing him about money’, after relating to the story to a friend, the plaintiff/claimant was then informed that David Thompson was in fact also the attorney for CLICO and was flim flamming her, for years he pretended to be her friend. Her new attorney also tried some tricks and she had to resort to going to the registrar to finally have the case completed to her benefit.”

    Well the attorney my friend turned to was Vonda Pile, who has seen been arrested in Barbados for stealing client’s money. If the registrar had not intervened my friend would not only be in a wheelchair but penniless, by the way i pointed my friend in that direction, since her case was tragic, her injuries were degenerative so she will end up in a wheel chair eventually, not that David Thompson or Vonda Pile cared.

    Ross……..do you remember Lawson Baily who croaked (died, since you dishonest lawyers believe you can live forever) well his former clients are still trying to retrieve their 6 MILLION DOLLARS he deposited into his personal account, that case is still winding it’s way through your corrupt court system, how many years ago did that thieving lawyer Lawson Bailey croak and rid the earth of his stain.

    Ross……….by the way, you need to tell your bosom buddy Clyde Turney, queer counsel, that the house he sold on Prospect Main Road for the females, last i heard she still needs her money and had to leave for Canada without her money.

    Ross……..do you remember your thieving lawyer buddy, Lloyd Smith who was disbarred, well many years ago he robbed a relative of mine of a house and land on Prospect main road, i was too young at the time to understand or he would have gone the way of the other two scum of the earth who thought i was the perfect victim, and i could go on and on, i am sure you will give me the opportunity, you see i can see, that you are just as dishonest, thieving and corrupt and you are haunted about something.

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  • Ross is the personification of what is wrong with Barbados.

    That intrinsic attitude that corruption is a natural endemic condition with which we all need to learn to adjust, and with with he is totally comfortable.

    The disdain for those of us who dare to expect honesty, transparency and truth to be a requirement of public life

    The hostility towards any attempts to challenge those in positions of authority – most of whom are his personal mentors and heroes.

    Ross sounds like a grand master of a fraternal lodge of crooks and con men…..

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  • Ross…………by the way, the little interaction i have had with Amused on BU, i can tell he clearly understands the concept of right from wrong., but you on the other hand, you have clearly done wrong to your own people and now you are so haunted by this that you show us all that you are just as corrupt, just as dishonest and just as thieving as most of the lawyers on the island, you cannot even try to hide it………..confession is good for the soul, do like Frederic (Sleepy) Smith and confess how you have wronged your own black people for the love of money, Smith did his on radio for everyone to hear, you strike me as a coward, you can do yours on BU, no one knows who you are.

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  • Miller said:

    “You are right there, RR. They are many ‘sophisticated crooks’. The revelations about the banking ‘practices’ in the City and other money capitals e.g. Lehman Brother, and now JP Morgan present convincing evidence to support your statement.”
    _____________________________________

    Miller………..Ross is an idiot, what he does not know is that these guys would decide they need $10 Billion dollars for a specific quarter, they do what is needed to create that wealth, they put aside $2 billion for what the SEC and whoever else finally fines them for committing that ‘oversight”, pay the fine, lay off some workers, some of the culprits may resign, go to jail, end of story, then they do it all over again when they feel the need…….

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  • What is wrong with being a model for the world as far as a judiciary which is geared to deliver JUSTICE?

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  • Some lawyers seem to be so mired in filth, lies, victimizing and betryaing their own, that anything else just does not make sense to them, to change the system means they cannot skim the almighty dollar or betray their clients, wallowing in filth seems the only and best way to survive in their sick little minds.

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  • Carson………..i am loaded and locked and ready for you, bring it on.

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  • @ROSS

    At least the other developed places lock up some politicians from time to time and investigate them. Including impeachment of their own PRESIDENT.

    @islandgal

    Legalizing alcohol was not a drive on our part, we never agitated for it. We came and found it.

    On the other hand, we are the ones pushing for the herb.

    But I guess St. Vincent knows that herb is the Caribbeans OIL.

    St. Vincent and Jamaica would more than balance their budget.

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  • Was’nt it said in the media that the decision in the Dottin matter would have been available yesterday?

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  • Dodds Prisons is unable to get prisoners on trial to the Bridgetown court in a timely manner. A judge recently summoned the prison boss to her court to explain the reasons for the tardiness,he sent his side kick.
    Dodds Prisons has now joined the ranks of Government concerns that are being plagued with “vehicles breaking down.” due to an ageing fleet.” Transport Board. The Police. Sanitation Service. Ambulance Service, and quite a few others.
    Did we not hear that a fleet of new Mercedes cars were issued last week to the Ministers and other VIP’s?
    And how come that CO Williams, Barbados Light and Power and quite a few others in the private sector are still able to operate and maintain an “ageing” fleet of vehicles, many of which are in excess of 20 years old?

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  • Bush Tea

    You are very odd. In making my remark about corruption in developed countries I was not, of course, defending corruption. Your remarks are wide of the mark but then so is your brain. Please get more rest.

    Amused

    Thankyou for understanding what I was trying to say. As I said, and as you rightly comment, in broad terms I agree with the substance of the post. Indeed, in some respects I would go further since, as I’ve said previously, I would apply a three strike rule. I’m sorry you told them what ‘in limine’ means. It might have become part of the folklore.

    Well Well

    Your mouth is as huge as ASIA and it seems you have serious personality problems. That is why you will be remembered. Oh yes – and also for sheer nastiness.

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  • Amused

    It just struck me. On the subject of lay people understanding the law, you will doubtless remember the chap at Glendairy (whose name I forget) who prepared appeals for prisoners. He was, apparently, as learned as any attorney. I gave him an out of date ‘Smith & Hogan’ once and in return he made me a cross which was nice of him and which I still have. I wonder where he is now.

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  • To all those who rubbish our judges

    I have just read today’s report of Justice Reifer’s judgment in the Dottin case. As with her judgment in Garcia she comes across as bold, balanced, learned and totally independent and unafraid….a credit to us in fact.

    Like

  • Protection of freedom of movement

    22. 1. No person shall be deprived of his freedom of movement, that is to say, the right to move freely throughout Barbados, the right to reside in any part of Barbados, the right to enter Barbados, the right to leave Barbados and immunity from expulsion from Barbados.

    2. Any restriction on a person’s freedom of movement that is involved in his lawful detention shall not be held to be inconsistent with or in contravention of this section.

    3. Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be inconsistence with or in contravention of this section to the extent that the law in question makes provision –

    a. for the imposition of restrictions on the movement or residence within Barbados of any person or on any person s right to leave Barbados that are reasonably required in the interests of defence, public safety or public order;

    b. for the imposition of restrictions on the movement or residence within Barbados or on the right to leave Barbados of persons generally or any class of persons that are reasonably required in the interests of defence, public safety, public order, public morality or public health;

    c. for the imposition of restrictions on the movement or residence within Barbados of any person who is not a citizen thereof or the exclusion or expulsion from Barbados of any such person;

    d. for the imposition of restrictions on the acquisition or use of land or other property in Barbados;

    e. for the imposition of restrictions, on the movement or residence within Barbados of any person who is not a citizen thereof or the exclusion or expulsion from Barbados of any such person;

    d. for the imposition of restrictions on the acquisition or use of land or other property in Barbados;

    e. for the imposition of restrictions, by order of a court, on the movement or residence within Barbados of any person or on any person’s right to leave Barbados either in consequence of this having been found guilty of a criminal offense under the law of Barbados or for the purpose of ensuring that he appears before a court at a later date for trial for such a criminal offense or for preceedings preliminary to trial or for preceding relating to his extradition or lawful removal from Barbados;

    f. for the imposition of restrictions upon the movement or residence within Barbados or on the right to leave Barbados of public officers or members of a disciplined force;

    g. for the removal of persons from Barbados –

    i. to be tried or punished in some other country for a criminal offense under the law of that country;

    ii. to undergo imprisonment in some other country in execution of the sentence of a court in respect of a criminal offense under the law of Barbados of which he has been convicted;

    iii. to be detained in an institution in some other country for the purpose of giving effect to the order of a court made in pursuance of a law of Barbados relating to the treatment of offenders under a specified age; or

    iv. to be detained for care or treatment in a hospital or other institution in pursuance of a law of Barbados relating yo persons suffering from defect or disease of the mind; or

    h. for the imposition of restrictions on the right of any person to leave Barbados that are reasonably required in order to secure the fulfillment of any obligations imposed on that person by law

    Like

  • Ross
    And of significance to the Dottin detractors including the former policemen now serving on the PSC,Reifer J re-confirmed to all and sundry that Dottin IS the Commissioner of Police.Who on the PSC can cast the first stone!None of the group is clean.

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  • Ross said:

    Well Well

    Your mouth is as huge as ASIA and it seems you have serious personality problems. That is why you will be remembered. Oh yes – and also for sheer nastiness
    _________________________________

    Let me be known for exposing the lies, corruption, abuse and victimization of clients by most attorneys in Barbados, yourself included…………i would not want to be known for condoning encouraging, covering up or helping lawyers, lie, steal, cheat, rob the old, the vulnerable and the unaware, look at yourself in the mirror and tell me what you see, Ross, you have no credibility.

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  • Ross…….a word of advice, you need to let some of the air out of your head, most everyone who has worked in the legal profession and some who have not possess a legal dictionary, myself included.

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  • Yawn

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  • LOL!!!

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  • @Well Well 20.09.13 8.43 AM
    While I may agree with some of your comments I am sure you have it wrong that attorney-at-law, Lloyd Smith jr was ever disbarred.

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  • Anon……………….i understand he was disbarred for another matter, i will take your word for it, if he was not disbarred that is another glaring indictment on the Bar Association and their inability to discipline their dishonest, thieving members, and more the reason Smith should be in prison.

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  • Lloyd Smith , or Johnna ,as we all know him, has done work for me on a few occasions, and this is the first time that I am hearing that he has been disbarred and certainly also the first time that I am hearing that he is dishonest.

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  • Colonel……..there is always a first time, I have not been sufficiently provoked, maybe Ross will remedy that, but some of the lawyers who have victimized their own people in Barbados, even their names surprised me, why? because they are not the usual suspects, and if this had not happened to my relative, i would not even know who Lloyd Smith is cause i never heard of him before and only seen him once, ask him about the house opposite Billie Miller’s house on Prospect Main Road, ask him how he got that house, my relative is still very much alive, although very elderly, but the proof is there, and if provoked enough, i will deal with it.

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  • The name of Billie Miller’s house on Prospect Main Road is called Cockle Shell, don’t want him to forget where the exact location of the house is.

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  • The Prime Minister is quoted in today’s press that he does not agree with increasing the number of judges. His position is that existing resources need to be more efficiently deployed.

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  • The fact the former President of the Barbados Bar Association Andrew Pilgeim and Prime Minister Stuart are so far apart on the issue of the bench strength required of the judiciary is scary.

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  • Makes you wonder what they are trying to protect (a dysfunctional court system). More judges for the short term will help unclog the system, when the PM does not want the system unclogged, means he has something to hide and protect…..more secrets.

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  • In the second coming of Roy it is interesting his first editorial highlights an inefficient judiciary. Good job!
    http://www.nationnews.com/articles/view/editorial-more-judges-only-part-of-the-solution

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  • @David. I read the link above. I must admit that it amused me. “The recent problems with the late arrival at court of the prison buses shows how the several cogs must move in unison to get the wheels of justice moving efficiently.” What, I ask, about the late arrival of judges? Is that not why our friend Alair shook his booty at the judge?

    A few years ago, we were all told by a judge (who will remain nameless) in an uncharacteristic display of judicial zeal, that he would commence hearing a case at 08:30 – and we duly arrived to witness this phenomenon. At 08:30. The judge arrived at 11:15. At least the judge apologised for their tardiness, which was also a phenomenon.

    The report continues on by focusing on, “Writing a High Court judgment is an exacting and demanding exercise which of necessity has to be done off the Bench. Re-reading the cases submitted by counsel and considering all aspects of the case is time-consuming work, calling for consistent concentrated application, sometimes while those same judges are also coming to work every day dealing with other technical cases in chambers or in full trial. It is to that extent that more judges may be part of the solution.”

    Yes, BUT…..all lawyers are officers of the Court. Judges are entitled to (and in the past did) leave their chambers and visit certain senior legal counsel who had no conflict with the case, but a speciality in that particular area of law and seek their advice and discuss the case with them. That same senior would then visit the judge in chambers to look over any aspects of the case on which he/she needed clarification – and sometimes more than one counsel was consulted. This resulted in relatively timely decisions. Not so these days. Why? Because judges may be unwilling to reveal to seniors just how lacking in knowledge of basics, like the CPRs, they are.

    I also take particular issue with the suggestion that after a full day’s work a judge then has to go home and work on a decision. In practice, a judge sits about a total of 3 ½ hours a day. By my calculation, that leaves him/her a further 4 ½ hours in which to work on decisions in order to conform to the standard 8 hour day that the taxpayer puts in.

    Of course, in the case of the Court of Appeal, they sit only 3 days a week.

    The problem in Barbados is, quite simply, the elevation to the Bench of people who have no practice experience. If they had practice experience, which necessitates the constant reading of the CPRs and the constant study of cases and the need to address many cases at the same time and retain the details of same, being a judge and delivering timely justice would be a breeze. AND coupled with the lack of practice experience is, sadly, the lack of scholarship – scholarship that would make it a joy, rather than a chore, for them to wrap their minds around cases before them.

    Therefore, while I agree that there is certainly a need for a judge or two more, overall there is a crying need for a far higher quality of judge, rather than those who come up through the ranks of the civil service (from places like the Sol Gen’s lamentable office) with no practice experience and a severe lack of scholarship and only a massive amount of ego.

    The Nation link continues, “But attention also needs to be paid to the operations of the Registry which feeds the material through the system. More staff is needed at key points in the system to expedite the process, and perhaps more marshals are needed to ensure a more timely service of documents, since a marshal on court duty cannot be doing work in the field serving court process documents.”

    PLEASE, define “key points”? Does this refer to the extremely simply task (even for an old fart like me) of feeding documents through a scanner and then putting them on to an electronic case file? This is like photocopying. You take a load of pages, put them on a machine and punch a button and the pages then turn up in PDF format on your computer and you save them to the court file. Then the file cannot get lost. More importantly, the judge has access to the file on his/her computer as and when required.

    The discussion in the link David posted to service of documents also needs to be looked at. In Ontario, these documents can be served by mail, or e-mail, or fax. Counsel, in the case of pleadings, serve documents on each other and file with the court by these means. The only time personal service is required is on commencement of an action on litigants themselves, before they have instructed counsel. In Ontario, whoever mails, faxes or e-mail documents is required to complete an affidavit of service sworn before a member of the Law Society of Upper Canada (in other words, a solicitor) attaching fax and e-mail confirmation slips – that way there is proof positive that the documents have been served. All affidavits are sworn before a solicitor and it is not necessary to travel to the courts to swear these documents before one of the many assistant registrars. Nor is it necessary to find a commissioner of oaths. This is a considerable time-saving measure.

    By the way, the courts in Ontario do NOT rely on human resources to serve documents, except in rare circumstances. This is done by fax and e-mail with the self-same affidavits of service sworn and put on the file by the self-same person who has sent the fax or the e-mail.

    Therefore, I dispute the need of more staff at the Registry. More staff is not needed, merely new rules and the training of the existing staff to carry out those rules, or if they cannot be trained, their re-assignment (or dismissal).

    The report concludes, “The court system needs attention, both at the criminal and civil levels. Alternate dispute resolution and more judges may be required, but there are other problems within the ancillary services which need to be fine-tuned as well if we are to deliver a more time-efficient system of justice in this country.”

    Remove the word “ANCILLARY” and I agree. But frankly, is this now what BU (David) has been saying repeatedly and loudly for years now?

    It amuses me that the present government (of whose bona fides I, for one, remain convinced and whose prime minister I, for one, continue to repose confidence in) has now followed the years-old suggestions of BU’s David in two essential areas. Budget (finance) and justice system.

    But at least under this new editor, the Nation has finally acknowledged what everyone has been saying for years. The justice system is a mess. And for the Nation to acknowledge this, you know it means that the justice system has gone beyond a mess and is now a terminal liability.

    @Ross. I know who you mean from Glendairy and, like you, I cannot remember his name. I am not going to get into the subject of the judges with you, because, although I do not agree with it, I see and can appreciate your position. Many counsel take a similar position and maybe they are right, but I see it as allowing the status quo to subsist. I think that matters have deteriorated to such an extent that all counsel must now “hold up their skirts” and shout loud. Or, as in the case of Alair, moon the judge. I have not had the time to read the judgement of Reiffer J., but will do so and maybe you could post the link at which this can be found to facilitate me. However, I would point out to you that this is a VERY HIGH PROFILE case, watched by the whole country. Therefore, the judgement and the quality of it would be of the highest and the delivery of it would have to be timely. But what about the other cases before this judge? Are the decisions timely and of the same quality? I imply nothing, but merely ask for information – I do not know the answer.

    Like

  • @ Amused
    Damn Amused! Bushie MUCH preferred when you and Ross were sworn enemies….this new- found mutual respect is disturbing to a bushman 🙂

    @ Ross
    Can you HONESTLY not see that by highlighting a good, sound, timely decision by a High Court judge – you are actually confirming how shoddy the whole system is….
    All decisions by ALL high court judges are EXPECTED to meet such standards.

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  • Actually Bush Tea the more apt description is to liken it to a company which is comprised of several department with only one performing satisfactorily i.e. meeting target while the company itself is losing a lot of money. Amused here is the link but as you know the Nation makes you buy the other part f the article. On this matter would it not make sense for the Nation to leave the eservice free for awhile to get people interested in the online version? Then again it must be targeted at the Bajan on the outside.

    http://www.nationnews.com/articles/view/judge-no-threat-to-national-security/

    Like

  • @David. Without reading the whole decision, it seems to me that this was merely a motion, not the hearing of the susbtantive complaint. I rely on Ross, if he is able as it may not yet be published and he may not be able therefore, to post the whole case. I am so busy just now catching up and I really don’t have the time to pursue this for myself. If Ross will be so kind, therefore…..If indeed it is a motion (or akin thereto) then I agree with Bushie that it hardly constitutes a major decision, but rather one that any judge would be expected to hand down in a timely manner, especially in light of the public interest. That it was pleaded on the, to me somewhat spurious, grounds of national security, certainly elevates the urgency of a decision, in the public interest – the peace of mind of the public – not that the public was in any way taken in, as the removal of the CoP is generally seen as of urgent national importance that promotes rather than detracts from, national well being – that he be removed, that is.

    @Bushie. I have decided that anything I have to say, if soundly reasoned, does not merit ad hominem abuse. Because it will persuade on its own merits. Also, Ross is far from being a fool and we agree on many points. I will respectfully disagree with him on certain points and I am sure he will disagree with me, whether respectfully or not is up to him.

    @Well well. I am reading what you have to say with interest, if not always with total agreement.

    @Baffy. My friend, where are you on this one? Usually you can summarise/stir the shit in just one brief sentence what it takes the rest of us hundreds of words to convey.

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  • Amused said:

    @Well well. I am reading what you have to say with interest, if not always with total agreement.
    __________________________________

    It’s ok amused, i am speaking from personal experience not just hearsay, i would not expect you to know most of everything that occurs within legal circles, the legal fraternity also has a way of excluding it’s own in some nefarious activities, particularly if you are not so inclined.

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  • Interesting to hear Senator Wilfred Abrahams at a constituency meeting yesterday commenting that the justice system is collapsing and in fact has come to a halt. He was also scathing in his remarks about the staging of a magistrates court at the burnt out prison where there was no running water for one week. He has proclaimed that he will become a thorn in the side of government on this matter. Pity as President of the Bar he like many before him have been shown to be ineffective but now as politicians they believe they can be loud. The good thing is that they are all beginning to align with BU’s view on the judiciary.

    Like

  • I could not have said the above better myself, particularly as it alludes to Abrahams, politics really does something unhealthy to the human brain.

    Like

  • @David | September 23, 2013 at 5:42 AM | Agree. An apt anolgy would be the tail wagging the dog.

    @Well well. I am not doubting you, merely saying that I do not always agree 100% with your conclusions. And I am sure you don’t always agree with mine. However, you have won my respect, for what that is worth.

    @David. Re Abrahams. Oh dear. I am having a big problem getting my head round how he could be a solution to any of the problems of the justice system when he, as president of the BA, saw no impropriety with him asking for and receiving a legal opinion from the then CJ as reported here (with documentary back up) on BU. Clearly he is looking for a platform that will bring him to National notice and allow him to trade in his practice license (and membership to the BA) for a more lucrative job – that of MP. The wheels of justice did not grind to a halt just the other day….this is a process that has taken a long time. As a practicing attorney, he must have known that. So now the PM has made it an issue and Andrew Pilgrim has made certain public comments and the Nation has finally got round to giving the matter some ventilation, it has become a political issue for all the MP wannabes to latch onto. For an attorney to do this looks to these ancient eyes, not as concern about the justice system, but political opportunism.

    I have been reliably advised for some time that the PM was quite concerned about the state of the justice system. How not? And I did wonder when he would give a hint of this concern. But the PM, indeed any member of the executive, has a problem with judicial independence and must respect it. However, as has been pointed out here on BU before, judicial independence is NOT absolute, as the taxpayers pay their salaries. And the truth is that the ONLY member of the executive who has the right, under the Constitution, to do something about it, is the PM. I think we can all now see how desperate the situation is for the PM to publicly refer to it. Now, we wait to see what will be done about it. It is not an easy fix at all. It is a massive breakdown. Massive nd agressive measures are needed. As BU has been continuously saying for some YEARS now.

    Like

  • Amused said:
    @Well well. I am not doubting you, merely saying that I do not always agree 100% with your conclusions. And I am sure you don’t always agree with mine. However, you have won my respect, for what that is worth.
    _________________________________

    Amused…….I am sure you are privy to certain information i am not, but how i look at these happenings and actions of the accused lawyers is from the perspective of the injured parties. At least you listen, and that says alot.

    Like

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