est. 2007

Barbados Underground

Bringing News and Opinions to the People

,

West Indies Cricket on the Skids

The demise of West Indies cricket continues to be a topic of conversation across the Caribbean. A good observation can be drawn that Cricket West Indies (CWI) , CARICOM, University of the West Indies, Caribbean Examinations Council and a few other regional agencies combine to build greater resilience and scale, as well as enhance bargaining…

,
President of CWI, Ricky Skerritt(l) and Dr Kishore Shallow(r)

The demise of West Indies cricket continues to be a topic of conversation across the Caribbean. A good observation can be drawn that Cricket West Indies (CWI) , CARICOM, University of the West Indies, Caribbean Examinations Council and a few other regional agencies combine to build greater resilience and scale, as well as enhance bargaining power on the global stage and in the case of sports, competitiveness. Certainly this was the intention of the founders?

Here are comments from two commenters on the blog reacting to West Indies recent failure to qualify for the T20 World Cup.

Another reshuffle? Heard West Indies cricket coach, Phil Simmons, resigned. Skerritt, Shallow, Jimmy Adams, Haynes and the other selectors, coaches, support staff and the team manager, should resign as well.”

So wait wha bout de players dem!

You will junk the ENTIRE establishment because the 15 players could not execute their skills when called upon to do so!

I can agree with the Coach and his assistants because their role is to motivate and focus these millionaire level athletes to ensure that they EXECUTE … if they fail then the coaching team has failed …. but the selectors, Dir of Cricket, CEO, Marketing and Communications folks and all-a-dem, really!

de pedantic Dribbler

dpD, the ‘system’ always deals with players after every disastrous series. Hence the reason why so many cricketers with ‘short-lived’ careers played for WI. The selectors chose players who did not merit selection and provided supporters with ludicrous reasons for selecting them. Skerrit & Shallow made ‘big promises,’ but delivered ‘very little.’ Their record clearly indicates there hasn’t been any significant development in West Indies cricket at both the regional and international levels during their tenure. We continue to use a mediocre regional FOUR (4) DAY as the basis to select players to play test cricket, against countries such as England, Australia and India where their domestic tournaments and cricket clubs are professionally managed.

Artax

72 responses to “West Indies Cricket on the Skids”

  1. William Skinner Avatar
    William Skinner

    @ Artax
    Nobody will question that we have had and continue to have disciplinary and other issues. The latest one surrounding Hetmeyer.
    I have chosen to bluntly state it is a lack of ability and I don’t see the connection with matters going back almost twenty years.
    We are simply not maintaining a level of play that is indicative of where we used to be.
    And however we slice it and dice it, that’s our current reality.We either improve on our quality or we would continue to flounder.
    I expect the West Indies to rise again but that will only be possible with a consistently high level of play that has now deserted us for a great number of years.

    Peace.

  2. De Pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    De Pedantic Dribbler

    @William, it’s about the long term indiscipline. @Artax clearly asserts that the great Lara was a part of the ‘problem’ not part of the solution as Lloyd and Richard were.

    When you reference Viv’s tenacious spirit which he gelled perfectly with his athletic/cricket skills and leadership nous to never lose a series and also invoke the desire to see that replicated in today’s stars you are EFFECTIVELY making the SAME point on the reverse as being made by @Artax: You want the stars to stand steadfast like Viv … he is showing how behaviours like Lara’s has continued to tarnish that.

    If you want Lloyd/Viv’s mantra to be in play then surely you appreciate that behaviours like Lara’s prevail. He didn’t cause today’s underperfirmance but he also didn’t set standards like Viv to destroy it either!

    Anyhow, I came on to speak to your earlier point so excuse that looong preamble. 😎😇🤣🙏🏿

    Beyond a doubt many of our lads have the mental fortitude of the best athletes.

    These guys have reached the top of their respective professional life and have been performing now for some years… the journey to get there was not easy.

    So I respectfully reject (on their behalf 😇) your argument.

    I will not prolix on that, so suffice to say … it’s IMPOSSIBLE to suggest that Jason Holder does not possess such mental fortitude … no prolix.

    Nor too Alzarri Joseph. This guy lost his mother to apparent unexpected death a few years ago DURING a cricket match for WI … he handled it beyond measure while STILL playing on the field. No further prolix.

    You can preach to me that these guys make lack situational strategic awareness or indiscipline re shot selection and such important tactics of EXECUTION particularly as it relates to the abbreviated T20 cricket but to suggest a lack of MENTAL FORTITUDE… there is no basis, good sir.

    And just as ‘politely’ I again suggest that in T20 cricket you HAVE to examine how your opponents win and lose … that’s very evident from the trove of analytical review done in this game.

    I’ll end by saying there is a reason that Mike Holding ABSOLUTELY REFUSED to get involved with T20 … it’s what Bajans of your era would call ‘SWIPING’ gone wild … and no propa cricketer every made it to WI status as a swiper … then!

    But since 2007 if you can SWIPE consistently for 30 or 40 balls at a strike rate of 150 for a few matches you likely are now a millionaire cricketer!

    That was madness in Viv’s era as a star even in ODIs … and definitely was NOT what Holford or Hall did at the wicket with Sobers. T20 is a TOTALLY different focus in every aspect .. clearly we have ALL of what it takes to win in T20s.

    But absolutely no dispute that we still need the discipline and focus Viv and Lloyd instilled but with professional athletes that is ALWAYS an ONGOING problem …and that’s what coaches and managers are there to enforce!

  3. Artax Avatar
    Artax

    dpD

    When we’re discussing Barbados’ current political situation, references are often made to Barrow and Independence in 1966, FIFTY-SIX (56) years ago……

    …… and Mr. Skinner himself often identifies the Tom Adams initiated Tenantries Freehold Purchase Act as progressive social policy, which was first passed FORTY-TWO (42) years ago, in 1980.

    We ‘reminisce nostalgically’ about the ‘good old days’ when comparing Barbados of yesteryear with Barbados today.

    But, somehow we can’t “see the connection with matters (relative to ongoing indiscipline among WI cricketers) going back almost twenty years.”

  4. William Skinner Avatar
    William Skinner

    @ Artax; @ DPD
    I understand what you both are saying. I cannot understand how we can even suggest these guys are near being good athletes and mentally tough.
    I must say that if they do , I am not seeing it.
    Their current standings in cricket clearly shows their performance says otherwise.
    Peace.

  5. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    Yes @Artax that does seem to be the case, alas. 😎🤦‍♂️

    @William, not sure what yard or meter stick you are using to measure ‘athleticism’ in modern cricketers but it’s gives some quite perplexing results!

    First, let’s clarify that I am speaking and have been here throughout about T20s. I can expand that to Test and ODIs to refute your point as well but let’s stick to the T20s!

    Do you watch the same WI teams as I do or even the West Indians in the CPL??? Brother, for all of the ‘athleticism’ of let’s say a Viv’ team there is no way that you can FACTUAL suggest that any (and all, really) of even this current team that lost so dismally are not as good or BETTER practiced ATHLETES! (I didn’t say BETTER cricketers)!!!

    Have you seen the type of contortions, leaps, diving and such which many of these fielders execute regularly in T20s … how on earth (or field to be precise 😎) is there even a debate about ‘ATHELITICSM’ in today’s T20 cricket (and too the other formats) !!!

    These days even the fast bowlers, for example, are able to gallivant around the field like a Gus Logie or even like Viv himself … so as I asked above … are you watching the SAME WI cricket as I am! How are these guys not now trained to maximize their athleticism!!!

    So please clarify your commentary on athleticism and mental toughness and establish exactly the yard stick you are using!!!

    Our current standings show we are not winning (outside the region) and therefore absolutely are lacking in key areas … but that certainly in not because of our athletic abilities (cricket skills). … Thus when we beat England’s in the T20 series here earlier in the year in the WI were we not mentally tough and our skills good enough … thus are you suggesting that having lost badly in Australia and when we tour we lose our mental strength and show poor athleticism … Is that it!!!

    Surely, alas, whenever a sports team falters on the big day the players can be accused of lacking ‘mental toughness’ or ‘choking’. That’s an easy ‘brickbat’ .. not sure it applies properly to us but if that’s what you think then so it is!

  6. William Skinner Avatar
    William Skinner

    @ DPD
    Great athletes go beyond jumping and running fast. Can you really say that these guys are mentally tough ? Do you really think that the results prove that.?
    Why are they not winning. Consistently ? Why are they (we) not the greatest team playing cricket.
    Cricket is a head game and I am not seeing the mind of athletes in our boys.
    I have tried to answer you . Now what do you really attribute to our dismal performances over the last several years?
    I am talking about consistently winning and why we have been in the doldrums far such a long period of time.
    Our current status does not support that they have the ability otherwise , we would not be here lamenting their inability to get back to the top or at least to be more competitive.

    Peace.

  7. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @William, your main query truly have been answered in various books and articles by eminent former players, officials and subject matter experts, or should I say … has been discussed at length, so excuse me for not delving more into the question of — “Now what do you really attribute to our dismal performances over the last several years?” —

    Briefly to speak to your other queries:

    1) “Can you really say that these guys are mentally tough ? Do you really think that the results prove that.?”

    Mental toughness is not an ad hoc or fleeting characteristic … nervousness or anxiety under pressure circumstances is such, however, and is a different matter. I simply assert that based on or up and down T20 performances that it’s the latter and absolutely not the former!

    We have proved beyond doubt that we have what it takes to compete and win. We did in just recently in February 2022 against an English team that just made in to the semifinals!

    2) “Why are they not winning. Consistently ? Why are they (we) not the greatest team playing cricket.”

    T20 cricket is such that at the top level you will win and lose. No team has dominated world tournaments over the years. Yet WI in 2012 and 2016 were winners and – from memory – the T20 champions lists should show several of the other major teams have won that tournament since its inception. None have dominated and even in bilateral series the win-lost (home and home) is generally balanced.

    This is quite different to the ODI tournament or Test cricket where a dominance is evident.

    3) “Cricket is a head game and I am not seeing the mind of athletes in our boys.”

    Clearly it is – as is all professional team sports – and I disagree completely with you on this contention.

    We have faltered badly in recent years undoubtedly and as noted the reasons are well chronicled, but I simply do not see the top class Wi players who trot around the world making lots of money as professional T20 stars as lacking the mental strength to compete!

    I am confident we will be competitive as a collective … but that said the simple fact is that as The Netherlands and teams like Afghanistan and Ireland show other ‘developing’ cricket nations are now extremely competitive in T20s and nothing less than complete togetherness and execution by WI on any given day will suffice for success!

    I gone.

  8. Artax Avatar
    Artax

    @ dpD

    I have to agree with Mr. Skinner that “Great athletes go beyond jumping and running fast.”

    He also asked some very important questions.
    (1). Can you really say that these guys are mentally tough?
    (2). Do you really think that the results prove that?
    (3). Why are they not winning. Consistently?
    (4). Why are they (we) not the greatest team playing cricket.

    It goes back to one of the reasons why I placed a particular emphasis on the lack of discipline among players.
    And, I don’t mean ‘bad behaviour’ only.
    As it relates to cricketers and playing cricket, discipline involves, first and foremost, respecting the game, eating healthy…… and, most importantly, training and maintaining fitness levels.
    Players should take responsibility for their personal and mental development.

    On Sunday, April 22, 2012 while addressing the audience at the 22nd Annual Awards ceremony of the Rose Hall Town Youth and Sports Club (RHTYSC), former WI cricket captain Clive Lloyd said:
    “Having been blessed with a measure of natural ability, a young cricketer must exercise the discipline of firstly recognising what it takes to enhance those skills and to succeed at every level of that endeavour, whether it would be batting, bowling or fielding, or indeed all of the above, as the modern-day game demands.
    The cricketer even in his or her formative years must be cognisant of the fitness preparation, for instance, that is required to attain the optimum level of performance to achieve advancement.
    The young cricketer must be disciplined enough to adopt the appropriate training regimen that would be the basis of successful pursuits in the game.”

    Although we’ve “seen the type of contortions, leaps, diving and such which many of these fielders execute regularly in T20s,” too often key players fail or decline to take fitness tests.
    For example, a CWI media release on February 3, 2020, revealed Evin Lewis and Shimron Hetymyer were dropped from the One-Day International tour of Sri Lanka after failing Cricket West Indies’ new fitness standards.
    Hetymyer failed fitness tests twice in one year.
    He was left out of the team for the 2021/22 tour of Ireland and England after failing to pass fitness drills administered in Guyana.
    Lewis was left out of the T20 team for the 2022 Bangladesh tour of the West Indies because he declined to take a fitness test.
    On Friday, October 7, 2022, it was reported that WI opening batsman, John Campbell, was given a four-year ban by a Jamaica Anti-Doping Commission (JADCO) three-member independent panel banned for an anti-doping violation.

    Some of the fast bowlers are prone to injury and ‘break down’ too often.
    And, our main batsmen haven’t performed consistently.
    They often fail to bat for long periods in an effort to form good partnerships.
    Or, they get a ‘good start,’ but are unable to carry on.

    I realized Mr. Skinner does not like ‘looking back’ when it comes to cricket, but, successive coaches have been talking about fitness as well.
    I remember Chris Gayle criticising former coach Ottis Gibson for focusing too much on fitness.

  9. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Artax and @William, let’s run an English comprehension exercise briefly …
    the meaning of ATHLETICISM is : “the combination of qualities (such as speed, strength, and agility) that are characteristic of an athlete”!

    That is the ONLY interpretation there is of the word: a direct examination of PHYSICAL abilities.

    There can be no DISPUTE that in order to harness that physicality and develop into a “Great athlete” you absolutely HAVE TO “go beyond jumping and running fast.”

    This therefore is not about ‘practice’ related to the DISCIPLINE of training your base cricket bat and bowling skills … it is about the practiced athleticism of the tremendous contortions, leaps, diving across boundary lines, contorted shot selection even etc. seen by so many modern cricketers!

    Thus as I noted repeatedly above 1) the issues of the failures as a team or even individually are WELL KNOWN and generally are not related to lack of athletic ability itself … and 2) the modern players are generally EXCELLENT well practiced athletes in T20s particularly to a more demanding level than those of past eras!

    Hope that CLEARS the air … the other issues of discipline and all that it takes to be a continually successful sports professional are NOT in dispute!

  10. William Skinner Avatar
    William Skinner

    @ DPD
    I assure you that the current group has no great athletes. Not one has demonstrated the qualities that make great athletes.
    There are a number of characteristics that make up one being deemed a good or even great athlete.
    That is the point that Clive Lloyd Re: @ Artax was making.
    @ Artax then went on to talk about discipline and that’s a part of being a great athlete.
    Hetmeyer is a perfect example of the difference. He was dropped by the West Indies but picked up over a million dollars in the IPL. Yes, he can run and jump and score runs but while he maybe athletic, he certainly is no athlete. Not even a good one.
    My position all along was if we had the mind of even good athletes , those skills would have seen better performances.
    Where is the concentration; respect for the game and indeed the spectators who come to see them play.
    My Brother with all the athleticism we have and we don’t have the mindset , we would continue to hope in vain.
    As much as I admire Lara, I have argued that with a more discipline and a better approach to his craft , he would have probably made at least another 1500 runs and he should have a far better test average.
    Chanderpaul, Haynes and Greenidge were all superior athletes. Lara was not. Roger Harper was a good athlete ; Carl Hooper was not.
    Good and great athletes go way beyond the ability to hit sixes.
    I am going to stick to my view of what we lack and we need to get all the qualities of great athletes instilled in our boys.
    Do that and with our natural skills and athleticism, we will be back on top in about 5-7years.
    Peace

  11. Crusoe Avatar
    Crusoe

    If I may, Donna makes two excellent points.

    One, that cricket in the West Indies is practised much less than in yesteryear.

    How does a framework move from weekly local tourments, which had a heavy following, plus an annual inter island tournaments (Shell Shield), that had prestige, to neither, or not the latter and much less of the first, yet expect the same output in player quality?

    It is difficult, unless a new framework is designed for success.

    To this I blame the large corporations that have far less social responsibility than they used to.

    Yes, Cable & Wireless made money hand over fist from Barbados, but the management did put significant sponsorship money back into cricket.

    How much, relatively, is given now by large, profitable organisation.

    Too much bottom line, no social resoonsibility.

    And then, if the money became available, how can the fixtures be designed to bring a much nore seasoned West Indian cricketer to the international scene?

    Secondly, as Donna said, football has taken over as the pre dominant sport.

    To take that attention back is a challenge. Can we do both?

    I would think so, but only if the above is addressed.

    On football, ironically, football actually requires even more discipline on the field than cricket, due to the pace of the game.

    Fitness discipline is paramount, absolute, behaviour is critical in approach to training and in a game and being able and willing to follow instructions keep one on the field and off the bench.

    The level of indiscipline that seems to have gravitated to Barbados football in the past, guns at matches etc, fighting, does not give any confidence that Barbados could ever achieve much in football, when that is the opposite of what the sport requires.

    Individual players extracted by scouts and taken abroad yes, but not local collectively.

    Unless of course, a Barbados national team comes from multiple internationally placed ballers.

    Essentially, both the sport framework and as you all have posited and agreed, discipline are necessary for success.

    Along with a professional approach to management, as opposed to what happened in the 1990s, as Artax stated.

  12. Sid Boyce Avatar
    Sid Boyce

    I viewed a speech by the PM stating very briefly that the jobs of civil servants would be based on performance then off at an at length tangent that they should not need to ask for permission to take “lieu days”. Recent headlines about the increase in cruise ship visits.
    All easy — No dedication is a hallmark and in consequence it’s not likely that the dedication required to develop in any sphere of endeavour present in the DNA.
    People need to be self-motivated in order to make progress in anything and that is sadly lacking.

  13. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    I love the Bajan ability to make an understatement “WI cricket on the skids”.
    If I was on my deathbed I would ask my dear wife to ban the priest and doctor and have a WI cricket commentator give me the prognosis.

    The doctor may give me the naked truth; the priest would scare me to death with his rant about eternal fires and then try to blackmail me into accepting his pie in the sky routine; the WI commentator would convince me that there is still hope in my continuing to bat. He would encourage me to play for the draw instead of abandoning the game. Such optimists.

    Sadly, I am not a cricket commentator but a disappoint fan. Not on the skids… WI cricket is dead (to me).

    But yet, I want to thank WI cricket for the beautiful memories of the distant past. They cannot be erased.

  14. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @David, are you taking any bets on Kraigg Brathwaite standing tall and taking his team to victory on day 5 against the might Aussies: he is 100+ n/o with at least 3 competent batsmen still with him!

    Can they bat another 90-overs and withstand a final swinging new ball barrage from Cummings and co … of will they fold before lunch??

    Alas … but I’ll take your 500 -1 odds of victory with a Grantley!

    And what of US beating the low-country boys of ‘Holland’!! That’s running at 330 -1 odds from what I see … I’ll just take a Prescod on the underdog there too!😎

    It’s Saturday so a moment to step off the ‘serious’ briefly!

    Peace.

  15. David Avatar
    David

    @Dee Word

    The Blogmaster will pray earnestly for the team. This is the best reply available.

  16. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    Indeed, indeed!

    And as prayers go …we can extend those also to the mighty Edson Arantes do Nascimento who is reported to have been ‘moved into palliative care’ as a final stage of his life.

    We all go and will go eventually and there are many awesome people around … but for whatever reason this brother always seemed ‘larger than normal life’ to me.

    There are the Sir Garrys, Maradonas, Barrows, Dr. Kings, the ‘real’ McCoys, Malcolms etc greats of our life but Pele was still extra, extra special!

    Peace!

  17. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    Alas, it was not prayer that raised Lazarus from death.
    But I too will say a prayer.

    Heavenly Father listen to the prayer of David and return life to the WI team. Restore their sight so that they can see the ball; strengthen their fingers so that they can hold on to catches. Father build their sinews so that they can field and bowl and bat. Father if this rebuild is too great, give us a completely new team.

    Be kind to your servant David. Help him to retain his optimism even in the face of complete failure.

    Amen

  18. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    These are highly paid grown men. If they suck, then let them know. To hell with their feelings.

  19. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    I used to be angry at the limited athletic skills that the Good Lord gave to me. These days, I am extremely thankful for his wisdom and his blessing.

    Dear God, you have spared me participating in a 598-4 cricket game or a 20-0 soccer game. In your infinite wisdom, you knew that I could not live with such a score. I am grateful.

  20. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    Australia
    598/4 declared & 182/2 declared
    West Indies Fla
    283 (all out) & 333 (all out)
    Australia beat West Indies by 164 runs
    Do you realized the WI lost all of their wickets and Australia lost only 6?
    Do you realize that by the total score it was almost a 2 for 1

  21. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    TheO,

    There was a time when my son was all cricket all the time. He was the one at EVERY practice session. He was the one walking with cricket gear EVERY DAY coaxing the boys away from football and back into cricket.
    He was the one who forced me to take him to cricket camp when I knew the field would have been flooded. He was the driving force behind the team. Lunch time, “Leh we play cricket!” After school, “Leh we play cricket!” And when he got home either myself, his father or my brother had to toss him a few.

    We pulled out because of favouritism and spitefulness by the school’s coach (whose advances I rejected) at the primary school level. The heart and soul of the team was made to sit and watch a boy who never came to practice, play in his stead.

    My best friend’s daughter pulled out of netball because of favouritism and spitefulness at the national level. After having been congratulated for playing a pivotal role in a regional tournament, she was “somehow” dropped from the team. The current netball team was recently given a scathing report from a former stalwart just as this WI team is being ridiculed by the Australian fans.

    Long time I have been telling my son how wonderful it is not to be a part of this humiliating experience called WINDIES cricket. Money is good but it is not worth the humiliation, even if you are the one soldier left standing on fifty not out at the end. (You need a partner to make a hundred.) There is no such thing as a successful one man team.

    By the time my son reached secondary school, he only played cricket for fun. After watching him play around, the coach would call on him to show the team members how to bat. They were only interested in hitting six every ball. It was swipe free wherever the ball may be! This is not what the NSC coach, the prolific batsman Thelston Payne had taught my son. These children do not listen. My son listens. “You cannot make runs from the pavillion.” I don’t remember the source.

    And, “Four plus four equals eight. Six plus nought equals six.” This from Everton Weekes the Great.

    So…my son was never going to be a Lara, but he aspired to be a Chanderpaul.

    These young men do not listen.

    Our cricket was already on the way downhill when T20 pressed the accelerator.

    We used to have such a high standard of player that even when favouritism reared its ugly head (as it always does in these parts) and second best got the nod, we could be competitive.

    Not so any longer.

    Some of the teams chosen even recently have left pundits bamboozled.

    EVERYTHING is wrong with our cricket. The structure is wrong. The administrators are wrong. The selectors are wrong. The players are wrong.

    As for our bowlers – Ottis Gibson was making a hand of the old crop several years ago and then apparently somebody had a “problem” with him and he was gone.

    This is the way we run things – into the bloody ground. We have hit rock bottom. Will that prompt a change in mindset?

    I doubt it. This is why I have no hope for our cricket. And sometimes I have no hope for our country.

    I am grateful for unwelcome advances. They were a blessing in disguise. My son now pours his heart and soul into a one man enterprise where HE gets to pick his own team.

  22. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    My first of several comments
    West Indies 447/6d & 203/5d
    Zimbabwe (23.4 ov, T:272) 379/9d & 83/4

    Can you imagine the balls and gall of the Zimbabwean players to declare when still 68 runs behind?
    What was their thinking?
    Were they counting on the WI batting to collapse?
    Are cricket teams now playing a mental game with our WI players? Disrespecting them by gambling that WI batting cannot last as long as a “snow-cone”.

    I am not getting the match (on TV) in my region, but I will be waiting to hear the final outcome.
    Has Zimbabwe gamble paid off? Are teams beating us on the field and with the mental department game as well?
    😭😭😭

Older Comments
1 2

Leave a Reply to De Pedantic DribblerCancel reply

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading