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Our Economy Should be Designed to Thrive NOT Grow

We have discussed the conspicuous consumption model which people everywhere have become addicted at every level of society. The individual aspires to buy a house, car, travel and in large part sees the acquisition of material things as a badge of success. The government (reflecting the sovereignty from the people) works hard to maintain popularity…

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We have discussed the conspicuous consumption model which people everywhere have become addicted at every level of society. The individual aspires to buy a house, car, travel and in large part sees the acquisition of material things as a badge of success. The government (reflecting the sovereignty from the people) works hard to maintain popularity with the people and therefore pursues policies to satisfy as insatiable thirst of the conspicuous consumption model.

In order to disrupt the downhill rollercoaster ride to nowhere enlightened citizens will have to shout enough is enough. There will have to be a revolution in thought, word and deed. Listening to the debates and various exchanges in social media and elsewhere it is evident the majority of our people are locked in an unproductive mindset. The reality is the cliche it is not business as usual is apt now more than ever.

The blogmaster watched the following presentation A healthy economy should be designed to thrive, not grow by Economist Kate Raworth and was intrigued by her postulation. Take the time to view the 15 minute presentation to feed your mind a different perspective IF you dare!

Oxford Economist Kate Raworth – TED Talk

288 responses to “Our Economy Should be Designed to Thrive NOT Grow”

  1. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @angela cox July 8, 2021 7:00 PM
    “Our economy was thriving back in the sixties”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++
    This is, of course, completely false. The rate of poverty in Barbados was much higher in the 1960s than it is now… and not is still much too high now. A thriving economy must have a poverty rate of close to zero, or it is not thriving.

  2. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    Unable to contribute…
    A good link. Scroll down.
    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/poverty-rate-by-country

  3. angela cox Avatar
    angela cox

    PTL
    My comment relates to a Barbados economy that thrived in the economic sense relying on the small black business for revenue
    I also remembered that families living overseas financial input help Barbados economy to thrive
    Yes when one looks at social planning inhaling to bring people out of poverty there was plenty lacking

  4. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    @angela cox July 8, 2021 7:00 PM “Our economy was thriving back in the sixties”

    I am not sure what she means by the economy thriving in the 1960’s. In the early 1960’s I was going to school barefoot at my rural elementary school, although my parents did stretch their budget to buy me a pair of “Little Duchess” black laced school shoes when I started going to secondary school in the early-60’s.

    Sure my parents and others in our rural village were working extremely hard in the sugar industry, in fields, in factories, and growing sugar cane on their own small plots, These workers were producing maybe 200,000 tons of sugar mostly for export, but very little of that money came to people like my father who worked in a sugar factory for about $25 BDS per week, and had a large family to support. No easy oral contraceptives back then. Not many condoms in the country either. The family which ran the 2 village shops were both devout members of the Christian Mission church and even though I was too young to ask I never saw anybody buying condoms there. Such things required a 1 hour bus trip to Bridgetown, so people had a lot, a lot of children.

    I’ve told ac more than once that if she is going to tell lies about Barbados’ history she really needs to wait until I am dead, and since I am not yet 70 and feeling hale and hearty I may not be dying anytime soon.

    I do not doubt that many, maybe most white families were enjoying a middle class life, and no doubt some were enjoying an upper class life, but most black Bajans were poor as ass, struggling every single day. My parents managed to buy 2 acres in 1957 and before I began elementary school I was picking nut grass and devil grass from those fields [somehow there was no pond grass] so that we had some sugar cane to sell to the factory and so that we could grow some yams, bananas, pumpkins, sweet potatoes, cucumbers etc. to feed ourselves.

    We really need to stop looking back at the past with rose colored glasses.

  5. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Simple S, wait a minute … u were at secondary school in the early ”60s and not yet 70 in 2021 … signs and wonder pon my soul….

    You start school at 8 or 9 then, fah sure!

    Just saying … causing dem numbers dont add up otherwise!

    Everything is relative … one can say we were ‘thriving’ in the 60s as compared to many other desperately under developed nations … or simply pluck a few choice metrics and run comparative charts through the wondrous ‘party’ coloured lens which the AC use..

    And talking about relativism… if ur dad purchased 2 acres of land in 1957 then clearly he must have been ‘thriving’ in some significant way to accomplish that feat.

    … as ‘poor’ as you say your family was he certainly was ‘richer’ than others one can surmise.

    Again just putting a different perspective to this matter of what is ‘thriving’ .

  6. John Avatar
    John

    peterlawrencethompsonJuly 8, 2021 7:10 PM

    @angela cox July 8, 2021 7:00 PM
    “Our economy was thriving back in the sixties”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++
    This is, of course, completely false. The rate of poverty in Barbados was much higher in the 1960s than it is now… and not is still much too high now. A thriving economy must have a poverty rate of close to zero, or it is not thrivin

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    PLT

    You miss the point entirely.

    Our economy was indeed thriving in the 60’s ….. and 50’s … and mid to late 40’s.

    Even into the 70’s to some extent.

    In fact, the greatest growth rate ever experienced was during the 50’s.

    You can see the remnants of the growth during the 70’s in the graph I put up in an earlier comment.

    I’ll put it up again and show you!!!

    Thereafter, our economy does not do as well.

    It is true that there was great poverty in the 30’s and 40’s and before but the economy was thriving/growing at such a rate that it could impact the high levels of poverty and drive them down during the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s and into the 80’s even.

    The economy grew at such rates back then because it was driven by the world demand for sugar after WWII.

    Half of the world’s sugar production was destroyed in WWII.

    Nobody in their right mind would contradict me when I predict that the level of poverty in Barbados, rising during the last two to three decades will become grow at alarming rates.

    That’s because the GDP has fallen dramatically ….. gone thru the floor in fact.

    COVID.

    So we will see the opposite effect on poverty of what the growing economy of the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s and into the early 70’s created.

  7. John Avatar
    John

    peterlawrencethompsonJuly 8, 2021 7:10 PM

    A thriving economy must have a poverty rate of close to zero, or it is not thrivin

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The poor are always with us so thriving/growing or not, there will always be a level of poverty.

    A thriving/growing economy reduces the level at a rate proportional to the rate of growth of the economy … GDP.

  8. John Avatar
    John

    Conversely, a shrinking economy increases the level of poverty at a rate proportional to the rate of shrinkage.

    So, we know we are in sh!t with the GDP looking like it looks.

  9. John Avatar
    John

    Now, who is smart enough to explain the strange appearance of PLT from out of nowhere?

  10. John Avatar
    John

    Here’s how I look at the graph of GDP growth in Barbados.

    You can see in red, the left over high levels of growth of the economy in the 70’s.

    Thereafter, growth falls to a lower level … blue.

    It then goes into what appears to be a terminal fall … black.

    I say, poverty levels fell during the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s as the growth of the economy fell from its previous highs.

    It is now on the rise.

  11. John Avatar
    John

    Cuhdear BajanJuly 8, 2021 8:18 PM

    My parents managed to buy 2 acres in 1957 and before I began elementary school I was picking nut grass and devil grass from those fields [somehow there was no pond grass] so that we had some sugar cane to sell to the factory and so that we could grow some yams, bananas, pumpkins, sweet potatoes, cucumbers etc. to feed ourselves.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Simple Simon, I’ll explain what you saw in terms of the thriving economy back then.

    Your father and mother smelt hell in the 20’s, 30’s and into the 40’s.

    The growth of the economy as a result of WWII created employment.

    That meant by 1957, they were able to put together enough money to purchase 2 acres.

    What did they do?

    Grew sugar cane for the factory FIRST!!!

    It brought in cash, maybe not alot but a great deal more than they would have seen in the 20’s and 30’s.

    The 2 acres allowed them also to plant food for their family and to sell any excess.

    What’s going to happen the your grandchildren?

    Will they return to the level of poverty experienced in the 20’s and 30’s?

    Can they grow food?

    You had it easy compared to your parents growing up.

  12. David Avatar
    David

    @John

    Your view is obviously coloured by your upbringing as a privileged minority in Barbados raised on a plantation.

  13. David Avatar
    David

    Caddle cites key to reaching SDGs by 2030

    Access to adequate resources will play a pivotal role in Barbados achieving its sustainable development goals (SDGs) by 2030.
    Minister in the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Investment Marsha Caddle made this statement Tuesday during her contribution to the United Nations High-Level Political Virtual Forum On Sustainable Development.
    Caddle said Barbados and other small island states were signing on to international conventions, but without resources they could not implement the policies.
    “I want to focus my brief intervention on a critical aspect of SDGs (sustainable development goals) achievement – the means of implementation,” she said. “It is the same focus Barbados takes with respect to the climate crisis and it is the same focus we take with COVID recovery. We have reached agreement globally on the mission. The gap that remains globally is the how – the resources that would get us there.
    “Tourism-based economies, even as we diversify into renewable energy, high value agricultural products and high skill technology products, need the world to move again in order for immediate recovery to take place.
    We all bring visitors and foreign direct investment to our shores, but the world needs to move again in order to avoid both the figurative and literal separation of the haves and the have-nots.”
    Caddle said small states needed funding to bounce back from disasters and other crisis situations.
    “Recent debt service suspension initiatives did not see the eligibility
    of several small island economies whose debt accumulated in rebuilding efforts post natural disaster. For the SDGs, for a green COVID recovery and for the climate crisis, the world needs a new understanding and agreement on eligibility and vulnerability with respect to the means of implementation and we need instruments that respond.”
    The high-level political forum on sustainable development is the core United Nations platform to follow up and review the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development.
    Ministers from various countries and other participants explored various aspects of the response to the COVID-19 pandemic and its impact.
    They also discussed the kinds of policies and international cooperation that can control the pandemic and its impact, which could put the world back on track to achieve the SDGs by 2030. (SB)


    Source: Nation

  14. 555dubstreet Avatar
    555dubstreet

    Growth is not equal to standard of life or a measure of equality for poor, it is a figure based at a national level not an individual level.

    3rd world countries have higher growth than 1st world countries as they are catching up with the most basic services.

    Poor countries have high ROI return on investments

  15. Eugene/John Avatar
    Eugene/John

    DavidJuly 9, 2021 2:01 AM

    @John

    Your view is obviously coloured by your upbringing as a privileged minority in Barbados raised on a plantation.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    It is generally accepted that Barbados was a monocrop economy in the WWII era and the few decades after.

    All you have to do to understand its output and growth (no plantation upbringing necessary just the ability to read history).

    Once you do this you will understand the economy of Barbados in the 1940’s, 50’s, 60’s and 70’s.

    The economy had to mirror sugar output!!

    That’s because it was a MONOCROP economy.

    Once you have heard of WWII and the destruction caused in various parts of the world you will understand the economy of Barbados in the period identified by Angela Cox as period when the Barbados economy thrived and grew.

    This is not rocket science.

    All you have to realise is that it is more likely for a small economy to grow rapidly.

    So in the case of Simple Simon’s experience, her parents smelt hell in the period leading up to to the 1950’s in the small economy that existed.

    Once the monocrop economy started to grow, they grew with it from their extremely straightened circumstances.

    The economy’s growth peaked in the 60’s and 70’s and has been in decline since.

    You don’t have to have a plantation upbringing or be a rocket scientist to understand the simple truths I am writing.

    Anyone who has listened to their elders and tried to understand their economic progress will immediately understand what went on.

    They will also understand exactly where Barbados is in its economic life and not waste time trying to contradict the truth.

    … and now, to understand the output of the monocrop economy by looking at sugar output.

  16. John Avatar
    John

    Here is the output of the monocrop sugar industry of Barbados.

    This is all you need to know to understand why during the 40’s. 50’s. 60’s and 70’s the growth of the Barbados economy was at its greatest in its existence.

    https://imgur.com/8lwFXuy

  17. John Avatar
    John

    … and you don’t need to have had a plantation upbringing to understand this simple graph.

  18. John Avatar
    John

    A blind man on a trotting horse could look at the graph and immediately “see” … perceive … that the yellow highlighted period saw the greatest output.

    In that period, Simple Simon’s parents cultivated sugar cane as did most small land holders.

    All through Bank Hall and Eagle Hall sugar cane was grown on similarly sized land areas.

  19. John Avatar
    John

    Here’s what happened to sugar in WWII and shortly thereafter.

    Get this through your head and you then understand the effect of the world economy on Barbados.

    You don’t need to have been brought up on a plantation to comprehend this.

  20. 555dubstreet Avatar
    555dubstreet

    @ JK

    Barbados main contributors to it’s economy are service industries such as financial business and tourism sectors.
    Sugar sales are controlled by world markets.
    Barbados is a Little Island and made losses when it couldn’t sell it’s produce in international markets.

  21. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    I was at secondary school in the early seventies and I am not yet sixty. I entered at ten years old.

    Simple Simon’s numbers add up perfectly.

  22. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    Alas. I took the ‘relativism’ reference in a too narrow prism … and interpreted ‘early 60s’ as 61-62. Through that lens the numbers were off, based on starting secondary school at 11 but many like you started at 10 and ‘early 60s’ can extend to ’64 anyhow … so yep the addition was good!

  23. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @John
    You continue to confuse growth with thriving. You need to think more critically. The two concepts are connected, but not synonymous.
    The economy needs some growth in order to thrive, but we need to govern and direct the growth because not all growth leads to a thriving state of society. Economic growth has benefits as well as costs.

  24. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @John July 8, 2021 10:47 PM
    “Now, who is smart enough to explain the strange appearance of PLT from out of nowhere?”
    ++++++++++++++++
    I have not been nowhere, I’ve been busy achieving some growth within the catastrophically depressed Barbadian economy. Indeed my work has helped to power one sub-sector of tourism to record growth and revenue while the rest of tourism collapsed by 70% in 2020.

    What have you been up to lately? Have you achieved any growth in the agricultural sector?

  25. John Avatar
    John

    555dubstreetJuly 9, 2021 5:37 AM

    @ JK

    Barbados main contributors to it’s economy are service industries such as financial business and tourism sectors.
    Sugar sales are controlled by world markets.
    Barbados is a Little Island and made losses when it couldn’t sell it’s produce in international markets.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    In the period referred to by Angela Cox as the period of a thriving economy, there was only one engine of growth … sugar.

    Tourism was small but growing and financial business probably non existent.

    Barbados had a guaranteed market for its sugar through agreements reached with the UK and we received preferential rates as did all of the ACP countries.

    You will find that Plantations Ltd., BS&T, and Goddard’s Enterprises all thrived in the period of the 50’s to the 70’s.

    The reason we won’t be seeing any similar companies being formed, growing and maturing is because there is no comparable economy in Barbados to that which existed over the four decades following WWII.

    I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s, the tail end of the era when the economy thrived.

    I remember the rise of the middle class in this era, ensured by the era of the 40’s and 50’s.

    We are now in an era of a declining economy in which poverty will grow.

    Construction as I have said on innumerable occasions is a dead end activity, limited now by water and more and more, land.

    We should really get what land we have back in to production … of what, I am not sure.

    That is what can generate growth.

    Sure there are other activities but they will have a finite lifecycle.

    Agriculture, properly run, may have its ups and downs but it is a forever economic activity.

    People have to eat!!

    It may not be financially viable on a large scale but its economic value is unquestionable.

  26. John Avatar
    John

    PLT

    The reason you are back is because the growth you speak of will impact the availability of water to the average Barbadian.

  27. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @John
    Please be more explicit. The availability of water, to poor Barbadians in particular, has already been severely impacted. The availability of water to the agricultural sector at affordable prices is already a significant constraint. The extortionate contracts that the Barbados governments have signed with companies providing desalinated water are a terrible precedent. So, yes, I am concerned about security of water supply in Barbados. Aren’t you?

  28. 555dubstreet Avatar
    555dubstreet

    John Boy Knox

    You tend to start off with a conclusion albeit a wrong one and work backwards

    Barbados economy was not thriving when your pater and mater catered for you

    it is just your memory of being a spoiled child unaware of the poor

    https://tradingeconomics.com/barbados/gdp

    btw a David said you were Jack Bowman but it is difficult to see that

  29. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    @ David Bu
    We get into this type of confusion and conflating of issues when we start with word salads.
    We are discussing Poverty, Income Inequality,Economic Growth and Economic Transformation and Sustainable Development. All these terms had precise definitions when first conceived. In this debate/ discussion they are sometimes used interchangeably. I hope that our Policy makers are not similarly confused. If they are no wonder there is consternation at the lack of internal consistency of the economic strategy .
    BTW what is Sustainable Economic Development in a world where the economic and physical parameters change faster than the speed of light?

  30. John Avatar
    John

    JohnJuly 7, 2021 8:43 PM

    MillerJuly 7, 2021 8:31 PM

    @ John July 7, 2021 6:54 PM

    What’s so big a task about sourcing 80,000 additional mouths to feed, shelter and ‘school’ and, most importantly, to find work when there are thousands of young Haitians just eager to travel to the ‘greying’ paradise in the Caribbean called Bim?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The 80,000 are high end tourists who will need lots of water.

    Forget the food, shelter, schooling and work, mind de watuh!!

  31. David Avatar
    David

    @Vincent

    We have the HDI indicators to use in conjunction with GDP.

  32. John Avatar
    John

    Hurricanes had no impact on sugar output, highly resilient economic activity.

    https://imgur.com/f6QWIwZ

    COVID will also have no impact on sugar output!!!

    … but it will hammer the rest of the economy as is shown in the dramatic fall in 2020.

    https://imgur.com/f6QWIwZ

  33. Eugene/John Avatar
    Eugene/John

    The effect of COVID on the Barbados Economic growth.

    https://imgur.com/oDJR6bj

  34. John Avatar
    John

    Through the floor … no impact whatsoever on sugar output which will probably rise over last year because of rains.

    If our leaders had any brain, they would have ensured sugar was still a major plank of the economy.

  35. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    @ David,

    Brasstacks could be good today. I listening now.

  36. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    @ David BU at 10:09 AM

    The HDI is designed to compare Economic well-being. Another recently minted term. It seems as if we coin words and phrases to describe, but not solve the problems. It is not particularly useful, but it is better than nothing. Comparability between countries and cultures sometimes is invidious.

  37. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    @ John at 10:18 AM
    The cost of producing a ton of sugar is well below the world market price. Does it really make economic sense to you? The tax payers have been subsidizing this industry since the early 1970s. Similar to what they are now doing for Tourism.

  38. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    Correction.
    The cost of producing a ton of sugar is well above its world market price.

  39. Eugene/John Avatar
    Eugene/John

    Vincent CodringtonJuly 9, 2021 10:58 AM

    @ John at 10:18 AM
    The cost of producing a ton of sugar is well below the world market price. Does it really make economic sense to you? The tax payers have been subsidizing this industry since the early 1970s. Similar to what they are now doing for Tourism.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    What is the difference between financial sense and economic sense?

    My thesis is that apart from periods of wars sugar has NEVER made financial sense.

    But sugar cane has always made economic sense!!

  40. John Avatar
    John

    As an economic activity, what is the difference between sugar and sugar cane?

  41. angela cox Avatar
    angela cox

    I remember a barbados having small businesses all thriving from as far north east to the west
    I also remember buses running on schedule
    The vendor supplies were sufficient and enough to cover customer support
    Nelson Street with all its warts had small business doing quite well
    Then one day like magic all these business were place on the bottom shelf and replaced with big Mcguffie digging holes in poor peoples pocket
    All this done with govt support
    Barbados was well set on a path of self empowerment back then
    Today Barbados path is well set on an realistic path of recovery

  42. John Avatar
    John

    It was the infamous “cane blade” speech of EWB and the twisting of history that bamboozled many people.

    It would be interesting to know when and why Simple Simon’s parents stopped planting cane.

    https://www.nationnews.com/2016/02/10/for-what-its-worth-history-or-their-story/

  43. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @angela cox July 9, 2021 1:01 PM
    “I remember a barbados… ”
    +++++++++++++
    You must be smoking some good ganja, because the Barbados you describe never existed.

    In the mid sixties the entire economy was controlled by White planter and merchant families like Plantations Ltd., and Barbados Shipping & Trading Co. Ltd. The small Black owned village shops were perpetually in debt to the big White owned importers who gouged them for every can of corned beef or bottle of rum that they stocked. There were a few Black people who had a piece of land to grow some canes… the ones that my family knew were constantly complaining of the unfair treatment they got from the White owned plantations and factories when the time came to sell their crop, but they had no choice.

    Childhood malnutrition was rampant throughout Barbados. All the important economic decisions were still being made by a small clique of White Families who gathered on the upper floors of the Barbados Mutual building on Broad Street. Blatant racism was everywhere, not just at the Royal Barbados Yacht Club or in the staff of every single back in the country, both the Canadian as well as the British owned ones.

    The busses did not run on time at all… I know, because I used to take the Hillaby bus back home after school and they did not keep to any kind of reliable schedule.

  44. angela cox Avatar
    angela cox

    PTL
    I beg to differ
    Yes my recollection bodes well to say that I say more small black business thriving in the villages than I see now
    No I do not smoke
    Yes I caught the bus I did not live in the country side but took the bus on occasion when I visited and never had a problem
    Sir I am making my comment on a Barbados at a time when small businesses were not being caught up in the cross hairs of Massey
    Small black business in my years were a welcomed sight for the village customers and we’ll supported by the mostly black customers

  45. John Avatar
    John

    peterlawrencethompsonJuly 9, 2021 4:22 PM

    There were a few Black people who had a piece of land to grow some canes…

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Trevor Rudder, who was the liason for small farmers in the Sugar industry used to put the sugar output from small farmers in double digits.

    At the time of emancipation more than a century earlier there were upwards of 600 Free Negroes and Free mulattoes who owned slaves and received compensation.

    That was 10% of the number of slave owners and clearly 10% of those who owned land.

    Sugar cane was grown literally down to the sea in the era of the 50’s when the economy was booming after WWII.

    I’ll put up an aerial photo from 1951 of the Bank Hall/Eagle Hall area to show just how completely wrong PLT’s version of events was.

    He is just one of the many brainwashed members of society who has made no effort to test what he was told

  46. David Avatar
    David

    How could that period be better given the level of poverty, level of education, level of healthcare, level of enfranchisement, standard of house. Do you take us for idiots?

  47. 555dubstreet Avatar
    555dubstreet

    “How could that period be better given the level of poverty, level of education, level of healthcare, level of enfranchisement, standard of house. Do you take us for idiots?”

    people always reminisce about better times that never were
    children playing at school didn’t have any stress about bills

    but what is the value of a simple less material life with a inner smile or a big smile on your face

  48. Eugene/John Avatar
    Eugene/John

    Decided to put up the Apes Hill area as it appeared in 1950/1.

    The area enclosed by the yellow highlighter was controlled by multiple small farmers.

    In this sample of Barbados, it looks to be about 20%.

    https://imgur.com/N0dGmtc

  49. John Avatar
    John

    PLT just has not got a clue beyond the rubbish with which he has been programmed.

  50. Eugene/John Avatar
    Eugene/John

    Here is the Sturges Area as it appeared in the 1950/1 era.

    About 6 years or so before certaim folk who shall remain nameless moved in with their parents who were growing cane, yams, bananas etc etc etc.

    About 30% small holders.

    https://imgur.com/Sb2IWiX

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