Lord Nelson Put to Rest

Finally the symbol of an oppressed colonial past was laid to rest. Nelson statue for years positioned at the top of Broad Street and lately in Heroes Square was removed by the Mia Mottley government on the International Day of Tolerance. History the blogmaster suspects will view this act- delayed though it was- kindly.

The Removal of the Statue of Lord Horatio Nelson [ Nov 16 2020 ]

337 comments

  • How do you know 5000 books written about Nelson disagree with Marshall?

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  • Blbliographies!!

    Books, papers, articles in scholarly journals use Bibliographies of sources that support their authors’ theses.

    All you have to do is to actually define what Trevor Marshall’s thesis is (if you can because he may never have defended it in a peer reviewed article) then search for whatever that thesis is in peer reviewed articles to see how many agree.

    If he actually did write and publish a scholarly peer reviewed article it will have a bibliography of sources he used to support his thesis.

    The question would then be do other scholars cite any of his scholarly articles if they exist and how many.

    Produce the publication and its bibliographies.

    Publishing in the press is worthless.

    Interpreting a single letter one way when nobody else has in your field is worthless.

    I’ve never claimed to be a historian because I have never published and been peer reviewed in that field.

    History is not my field although I enjoy it.

    I have practiced engineering.

    I don’t have to publish to be called an engineer.

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  • Go see if Grenville has ever cited any sources that agree with his position.

    He practices as an engineer but I will bet he has the citations to support what he is saying.

    Check and see.

    An engineer can practice history but a historian can’t practice engineering.

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  • Here is one.

    He argues Nelson was not a racist in a very short paper, all he needed, in which he uses 4 sources named in the bibliography.

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  • Here are his four references.

    The references to Part 1 follow.

    [1] Lowry. Fiddlers & Whores: The Memoirs of James Lowry, a Young Surgeon in Nelson’s Mediterranean Fleet. 2013. p.141
    [2] Davey. Nelson, Navy and Nation. 2013. p.308.
    [3] Davey. Nelson, Navy and Nation. 2013. p.297.
    [4] Browne. The Seasick Admiral. 2016. p.210.

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  • Strict guardians, take a bow
    IN THE AFTERMATH of the decommissioning of the statue of Lord Nelson on Monday, November 16, several well-intentioned people have either met or telephoned me to register sentiments of joy, congratulations and goodwill. They also expressed great satisfaction that the “excrescence” that was the statue no longer dominates the centre of our capital city, Bridgetown.
    I have endeavoured to respond as graciously as possible to such expressions of support.
    However, these well-wishers and jubilant Barbadians who describe themselves as “joyful and triumphant,” as well as those from overseas, have seriously erred by attributing to Trevor G. Marshall the exclusive “honour” of successfully agitating against the statue of Britain’s greatest admiral.
    They accuse the effigy of “loitering” for 207 years, on the spot where thousands of our African ancestors were auctioned for over 170 years from 1637 to 1807.
    To our mind, any “success” must be shared with a small group of cultural nationalists. Some of the “hopelessly misguided” Barbadian “misfits” include The Most Honourable Anthony Gabby Carter, Elton “Elombe” Mottley, Tennyson Cummins and the late Leroy Harewood, of “Black Star” fame. Each of these, in their own way, registered objections before 1986 (when I launched my own campaign), to the presence of Lord Nelson’s statue in a place of anguish and agony for the African enslaved and on a prominent pedestal in our capital city.
    They have been succeeded in recent decades by Prime Minister Mia Amor Mottley, the late Prime Minister Owen Seymour Arthur, Sir Keith Hunte, the late George Brancker, and Peter Simmons, David Commissiong, the Ambassador to CARICOM, Sir Hilary Beckles, Professor Alvin Thompson, Morris Greenidge, columnist Adrian
    Green, Reverend Aaron Larrier, Reverend Oniphra Wells, David Denny, Alex Downes, Ian Marshall, Tony Reid, Randy Batson, Martin Ramsay, Joy Workman, Margaret Griffith and Claudette Levi-Farnum.
    Then, there is that unknown citizen who, in 1966 wrote a letter in the Calypso magazine of the Barbados Advocate, calling for the removal of the statue and for a “50-foot statue of Garfield (Sir Gary) Sobers” to be placed there instead.
    Critiqued everything
    Some heartfelt and extensive credit must also be given to the following worthy and esteemed fellow citizens who routinely, robustly, and regularly critiqued everything and anything on Lord Nelson written by me, particularly letters published in both the NATION and the Barbados Advocate since 1998.
    They are Dr Leonard Shorey, Richard Lowdown Hoad, Robert Evelyn, Patrick Roach, Michael Rudder, Harold Hoyte, Carl Moore, Patrick Hoyos, Patrick Weatherhead, Rollins Howard and Dr Karl S. Watson. We will always remember Carl Moore’s excellent, insightful, and perspicacious description of the writings of “UWI historians” on Lord Nelson as “Flatulence.” That mellifluous and amazingly fitting description of arguments put forward by Sir Hilary Beckles and myself will stay firmly in our consciousness until our dying day.
    Grateful acknowledgement is also tendered for the cordial and clinical critiques produced by the late lamented Dr Frances Chandler and Gladstone Holder and from that benevolent Anglican cleric, Reverend Clifford Hall (“It is obvious that Trevor Marshall does not like Lord Nelson”), which will also live long in my memory.
    Interestingly, one of my friends, a Combermerian and a UWI Open scholar, has pointed out that, apart from these last three, our ardent “fan club” identified above are all products of the Crumpton Street institute.
    According to him, one can almost hear them all
    shouting in unison their glorious and stirring “war cry” – “For it’s Harrison, Harrison, all for Harrison,” as they stormed into battle to correct the mindless, mistaken and grossly inaccurate claims made by this “upstart” since 1986 on Lord Nelson and Barbados. (Remember Richard Hoad’s unbeatable description of T.G. Marshall as a ‘Twistorian’?) To all of these “strict guardians of our heritage” we offer our sincere appreciation for their solicitude over the past 34 years about the mental wellness of T.G. Marshall and for their efforts to show this lesser mortal the error of his ways. Unfortunately, for them all, I, as a product of Colleton and Bowmanston plantation tenantries in St John, an alumnus of Codrington Grammar School and a Bajan who was “radicalised” by three years at the Mona Campus of UWI have already moved on from “Nelson” to another battle, (“Having Found No One Suitable.”)
    Trevor G. Marshall is a long-standing historian. This article was submitted as a Letter to the Editor.

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  • Britain cutting back on foreign aid mmmmmm Canada not getting vaccines till the countries that make it are done first according to PM and we can pay for it…. So you picked a bad time to crap on nelson or ditched the queen are you positive china will be able to steal the recipe before next winter.

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  • lawsonNovember 25, 2020 2:27 PM

    Britain cutting back on foreign aid mmmmmm Canada not getting vaccines till the countries that make it are done first according to PM and we can pay for it…. So you picked a bad time to crap on nelson or ditched the queen are you positive china will be able to steal the recipe before next winter.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Find a contact in India and ask them to send you or bring back some Hydroxywhatyoumacallit tablets.

    The other whatyoumacallits sound like they are available over the counter

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  • When will we learn. Always the enemy within. They can only be rooted out with sincere radical approaches.
    I don’t agree with Grenville . I am still stunned that we did not put that piece of useless iron in the Careenage.
    However , some who are criticizing Grenville, come on BU everyday defending corruption and preaching that we should be happy with the crumbs we get from the white man’s table.
    We look around and see real poverty is now worst than the 70s. We keep measuring the entire country by how comfortable we are individually.
    Back in the 60s poor black people were still eating a relatively good meal. The kitchen gardens, good skim milk at school, poor barefoot children were at least getting a piece of fish and the chickens were in the yard. There was goat milk. Schools were not sick and children going in them every day. A little boy turning up for school not knowing that it was closed. We knew we were poor but we had an island-it was ours. We cared it ; poorest house had plants around it.
    Today our poor eat poor quality ramen. They are in the papers begging for their severance; the water in some areas are brown; we worship a politician for a garbage truck; we sing their praises for a new bus. The gutters used to be clean; we raced leaves in them after school. We could walk the street after a fete. Nowaday , we blow each other’s head off because the politicians and drug peddalers are in bed together.
    Yet, just like Grenville , some come here every day completely oblivious of what is happening two minutes from their door step.
    Well, Barbados is the only deal we have a chance in. We better stop watching it slip away like White Hill and while the poor people are being crashed ; pretend that a little sea bath will cure all our societal woes.
    There are many who like Grenville, seek to defend the indefensible every day.
    The enemy within ……….
    Peace.

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  • The following received from Grenville II. He continues to deposit his opinion about Lord Nelson in the public. It is his right in a democracy it must be said.

    Difficult Conversations, Part 2 – When Truth is the Enemy

    During our lifetimes, we will likely care about things enough to do something about them. We may feel compelled to speak, write, march, or simply stand with those doing so. That is activism, and the aim is to influence our elected politicians to change government policies.

    There are two types of activists. There are those who try to influence change, by getting politicians to accept the truth of a matter. For example, if they accept that cigarette smoke causes lung cancer, then they will likely legislate restrictions on smoking. Evidence-based activists treat truth as sacred.

    The other type of activist wants policies changed by any means necessary. For them, the end justifies the means, so they typically make things up. Their made-up claims are generally not supported by any credible evidence, and are easily disproven. For that one reason, radical activists treat truth as their enemy.

    Some evidence-based activists wanted Nelson moved to a less prominent location, and argued their position using evidence and reason. Radical activists just made things up. They falsely claimed that Nelson was a racist white supremacist enslaver who mass murdered thousands of enslaved Barbadians.

    THE PATH OF INSANITY.

    The Government has now established an extremely dangerous precedent, by making easily disprovable claims government policy. They are forcing us to accept blatant error, and reject truth. History shows that radical activists’ desires cannot be satisfied. Therefore, they will soon target something else. How can the Government justify investigating their future ludicrous claims?

    Suppose our radical activists decide to target Errol Barrow’s statue. What if they made similar easily disproven false claims that he poisoned thousands of Barbadians to death? What if they falsely claimed that Grantley Adams burned thousands of Barbadians’ houses to the ground?

    By not allowing any scrutiny of our radical activists’ lunatic claims, and forcing us to accept their false claims as official Government policy, the Government is firmly on a path of insanity. The sane path is one where the Government listens to both sides of an argument, and insists that all claims be verified before they become Government policy.

    Since the Government has signalled its intent to only listen to radical activists on the same-sex and republic issues, it seems that we will be on this insane path for a while.

    Grenville Phillips II is a Chartered Structural Engineer.

    He can be reached at NextParty246@gmail.com

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  • The other type of activist wants policies changed by any means necessary.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Commuistsas!!

    Animal Farm

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  • Oh dear! Whatever went wrong at Harrison College? Some serious indoctrination of the white supremacist kind. No wonder my brother never stuck around after the bell rang and left after Fifth Form.

    Some of you love flogging a dead horse! Nelson is down. He will stay down!

    Moving on like Trevor Marshall to the “Having Found No-one Suitable”. I assume that refers to the hiring practices of certain new “plantations”.

    Ignorant Lawson,

    It is wuhnuh plague filled asses that desperately need the vaccine. When you asses get it, you will stop bringing the problem to Barbados. Meanwhile Barbadians will wear masks as usual until you lot sort yourselves out.

    But we know that the international community has more sense than you. And so it will not come to that no matter how much you may wish it.

    Imagine that the queen’s ancestors cared nothing for Lawson’s ancestors and yet he keeps holding on to yesterday

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  • Wuhnuh mean Grenville, the Trump supporter???

    Quite frankly, I am beginning to feel apprehensive about trusting his engineering knowledge too. I don’t know how many screws are loose or where!

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  • For supporters of GP2.

    SGN avoided this calamity.

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  • Well… I sincerely hope that William Skinner’s constant digs are not directed at me. Otherwise he would again be misrepresenting my position and my lifelong and daily concern with those less fortunate than myself. There are many who can attest to my frustration with the piecemeal and half-hearted manner in which we seek to address the dispossessed and dienfranchised. I have a different approach these days. It is more of a do-it-yourself approach that takes power out of the hands of the oppressors without their co-operation.

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  • Since there is more than one way to skin a cat, I believe there is more than one way to skin a racist pig.

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  • Yes Donna you people have always been ahead of the game, for instance wearing masks before we even had covid.. Is that why your brother left school early to be another Black Caesar lol. This may have escaped you but unless your wearing n95’s you really dont have much protection. The reason to distance ,wash your hands was to flatten the curve so the hospitals wouldn’t be over run with everyone getting it at once , until vaccines come out the people will keep getting it just spread over more time. You will eventually get the vaccine but like canada will be waiting in the que.

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  • just like you Donna I like walking on broad street…… bridgetown and las vegas are probably the only two places you can pay for sex with chips.

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  • I wouldn’t know anything about that. I never needed to buy sex and I don’t gamble.

    You are quite incorrect about the protection offered by various masks. The N95 is simply the most effective mask. You must be getting your information from King Liar and co.

    Right wing nut!

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  • eggplant whisperer there are many studies that show just that , look on the daily mail it says masks dont stop covid check out the danish study,. Alex berensons new booklet even in 1918 they found that they have limited effect. Its a fashion statement now rather than being safe ,wear a n95 if you have any underlying island issues diabetes, highblood pressure or hideousness of the head.

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  • GP11 @NextParty246:
    ‘Since the Government has signalled its intent to only listen to radical activists on the same-sex and republic issues, it seems that we will be on this insane path for a while.’
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Why do you always have to conflate same-sex with going republic?

    You just can’t help being the chief of police on all matters of morality, can you now!

    A same-sex relationship is a human rights issue.

    Going republic is a political option with a ‘feel-good’ outcome for the country’s citizens.

    Come on GP2, the statue of Lord ‘Vice’ Admiral Nelson still has pride of place in its ‘rightful’ location of Trafalgar Square in the Motherland which, by the way, legally recognizes the rights of all minorities under its rainbow of citizens including those involved in same-sex relationships.

    But you do have a valid point.

    Why didn’t the “Government” solicit the views of the general populace including the “radical activists” on the removal of the Nelson erection but still wants to put the decriminalization of a plant and same-sex marriages to referendum?

    So which would have the greater national/cultural significance and financial implications for the ‘divorcing’ Little England?

    The pigheadedly made unilateral decision to go ‘Banana Republic’ in 2021?

    Or the decriminalizing of an innocent plant named Mary Jane Satan?

    Why purposely damage the lives and careers of harmless young people like the same Kemar Stuart just because of a plant made by God?

    What about legislating the right(s) of Ms Mount Gay who wants to marry Miss Cock(y)spur until death (or taxes) doeth them part without having to get permission from GP2 the Chief of People’s Bedroom Business in small-minded prime-wicking hypocritically drunk Bulbadus?

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  • Many studies suggest the opposite, right-wing nut.

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  • When sinless cast their stones
    For some reason, I always riled French teacher Mrs T.J. Gilmore. One day, we were discussing some dude – could be Benvenuto Cellini, brilliant goldsmith, sculptor, artist, musician and poet, as well as murderer (and homosexualler of boys) – and she put the question to me: “Should a man’s personal reputation detract from the acclaim of his professional work?”
    “No,” I said. “And why is that?” she asked. “Because I know that is what you would want me to say.” Well, she hit the roof, which took some doing seeing that she was about four feet tall. But the Gilmore question is relevant. Few of us are perfect (certainly not me) and “judge not lest ye be judged” is good advice. But somehow, a man’s legacy always comes out good or bad.
    Bill Cosby and King Ja Ja are remembered only as woman hounds. Jackie Opel only for his remarkable talent. Pages of praise were heaped on my friend Owen Arthur after he died; no mention that he was being cursed stink by supporters of the present Prime Minister not many moons before and even threatened with a lawsuit for defamation. Our resident “histrionican”, Trevor Marshall (new word for you, Trev, my brother!) hilariously calls Nelson a “mass murderer” but we’ve welcomed a convicted mass murderer as a CARICOM head for many years.
    The Pocket Guide To the West Indies highlights the rapid change of ownership of these islands between England, France and Spain. Such was the tension that Port of Spain merchants rushed their valuables to Fort George when the English fleet was mistaken for Villeneuve’s fleet, which Nelson was pursuing in 1805, just before the battle of Trafalgar.
    Hence the inscription on Nelson’s statue: “The preserver of the British West Indies in a moment of unexampled peril.” It was for that reason
    that a statue of Nelson was erected, funded by public subscription of Barbadians of all colours. Amen.
    Some want to link Nelson to the slave trade. This is admirably disputed by Grenville Phillips II with full references, but no one has done an independent assessment of these points of view. An eminent Barbadian historian living overseas asked me about Phillips: “How come that he is so scintillatingly learned and right-thinking? I have been reading through all his available postings and am impressed.”
    No doubt Nelson had flaws. But, for me, that doesn’t overshadow his contribution to my country. A beautiful poem penned recently in his honour begins thus: “What did I do? What did I do, to earn this wild disdain? For years I took the pigeon pooh, the wind, the sun, the rain. And no one ever noticed me, or cared for my dilemma, or put, to satisfy my lust, a marble bust of Emma. Where I could feast my stony eyes in rapt, if sterile pleasure; for I have many memories of nights of love to treasure.” I hope it will be published in its entirety with permission from the author.
    That said, I am no big fan of statues. You can’t retaliate. At Sugar Producers where I first worked, there was a bust of Sir John Saint, another Englishman who saved Barbados in time of peril. On occasion, Dr Colin Hudson’s little son would put some warm lashes in Sir John with a pointer stick.
    Brother Joe in Australia told of a plan to replace Queen Victoria’s statue with an aborigine chief. “No way,” the aborigines said, “let the white woman stay up there and take the pigeon poop and the bad weather!” If you’re going to put up a statue, at least make him or her comfortable. I can’t believe Sir Wes will be asked to stand on one leg for the next 200 years.
    However, they say statues reflect popular feelings
    at a particular time in history. Given the influxes we’re seeing and promised, Nello could well be replaced by Mahatma Gandhi or that Chinese fellow Mousey Tongue.
    By the way, surely Nelson should be given credit as an organ donor who benefited thousands of Barbadians? Nello apparently captured a French ship which was transporting an organ. He gave it to our St Michael’s Cathedral.
    Richard Hoad is a farmer and social commentator. Email porkhoad@gmail.com.

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  • Nelson’s base to be kept for future use
    The base on which the statue of British Vice Admiral, Lord Horatio Nelson, once stood is going to be preserved for future use.
    Minister in the Prime Minister’s Office with responsibility for Culture, John King, said yesterday that work was being done “to put it back to what it was” after the removal of the bronze statue on November 16. To facilitate the move, drilling had to be done, and that left the stone jagged.
    On Thursday night, an employee from the Ministry of Transport, Works and Maintenance was seen doing masonry work around the space. Yesterday, it had bunting of national colours wrapped around it, but King said he could not say if it was for part of the Independence Day Parade on Monday.
    Noting that the base was significant, given that it was built by “our forefathers”, he said Government would issue a statement soon concerning the redevelopment of National Heroes Square. It is understood that plans include hearing from the public about the way forward for the space and suggestions for the erection of another statue.
    “We are restoring it to its original look. This is the one part of the statue that the enslaved played a part in and must remain a part of the story going forward,” the minister said.
    The statue, erected in the 1800s, is being housed at Block “A” at the Garrison. The plan is to have it permanently at the Barbados Museum which is part of the UNESCO-designated Historic Bridgetown And Its Garrison. (GBM)

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  • https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

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  • We will soon become a republic; yet, we still seem unable to detach ourselves from our old colonial masters.

    https://theworldnews.net/bb-news/barbados-and-scotland-launch-three-day-cyber-event

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  • Why does California have the highest number of new cases once again yesterday when it has a mask mandate statewide?

    Why do 8 out of the 10 states with the most COVID infections (cases?) yesterday also have mask mandates?

    That data alone renders the CDC report incredible.

    Arizona which buts and bounds on California has no mask mandate and is # 14.

    Utah, which also has no mask mandate is # 26.

    Idaho, no mask mandate, is #34.

    Wyoming is # 45 and has no mask mandate.

    Seems to me masks are a hit or miss solution to slowing the spread of COVID.

    Probably find age distribution in a state may play a part …. or something they haven’t thought of yet.

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  • Wyoming with no mask mandate had fewer cases than Kansas yesterday.

    The report is based on the state that has a mandate with the lowest infections.

    This can’t be real science!!

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  • @nutjobs

    How the hell did we end up here? Dystopian that this warning is even necessary, yet here we are. Stay safe everyone, please. #COVID19 pic.twitter.com/Fub1baJ9qS— Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) November 29, 2020

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

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  • What is it that Ding Dong is actually saying?

    Translate into simple concise english.

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  • Somebody needs to tell Lawson… The topic is Nelson’s statue and not ‘Nelson Street’. Don’t wait on him to figure it out for himself.

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  • Easily explained, as you know, by population size. The population size of all those maskless states added together do not add up to the population of California.

    You, being an engineer, would have been exposed to mathematics and statistics at a higher level and would therefore not be expected to posit an argument so easily dismissed by my seventeen year old son who is still awaiting the results of his CXC examination.

    This is why I say you are evil. These misrepresentations you insist on presenting to the unsuspecting reader are dangerous to our health and could even be deadly.

    Our almost total dependence on tourism ensures that Barbados will welcome COVID infected visitors to our shores daily. Your misinformation may,
    however slightly, cause the loony right-wing rebellion to catch on and those measures that have been proven to keep us safe may be rejected by an ignorant few.

    You need an exorcist to chase out the demons that so obviously possess your demented soul.

    If you have a death wish why not simply hang yourself? Some of us are enjoying our lives.

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  • And as for Richard Hoad, I stopped buying the Weekend Nation when I read his Stand Your Ground column, in which it was easily gleaned that he identified more with the killer George Zimmerman than with Trayvon Martin, his victim, though no names were called and it was approached in a roundabout way.

    The only black person’s opinion that Richard Hoad seems to accept without reservation (or research I am willing to bet) is the one that agrees with his colonial viewpoint.

    Therefore Grenville Phillips the Second would easily earn his respect, having also posited that the colonial ties to the British monarchy is some sort of “insurance policy” and that Donald Trump the white supremacist has somehow done more for black people than put their lives at risk by his racist rhetoric and policy. A more than cursory look at his policies and actions would reveal that the positives were surface at best while the negatives cut deep.

    Has Richard Hoad dared to write a column in support of Donald Trump? Does anybody know?

    Or has he written one column against? If he hasn’t, that too would suffice.

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  • Population density perhaps?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_territories_of_the_United_States_by_population_density

    Kansas is # 47.

    Masks won’t change that.

    We see where the 57 states came from!!

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  • The report is completely unscientific apart from the fact it quotes some numbers.

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  • A child at the CDC wrote it.

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  • @Rabbit
    Looks as if your statistics have created a ‘facts checkers’ group.

    That rabbit hole has been blocked (by a teenager with loads of cement).

    Like

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