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Mottley’s Rush to Legalize Same Sex Union

A decision by the government to support same sex civil unions with legislation was shared by the government in the much anticipated Throne Speech last week. The government cloaked its support for the decision by promoting Barbados as being “in the vanguard of pioneering social justice, the protection of civil rights and the battle to…

A decision by the government to support same sex civil unions with legislation was shared by the government in the much anticipated Throne Speech last week. The government cloaked its support for the decision by promoting Barbados as being “in the vanguard of pioneering social justice, the protection of civil rights and the battle to ensure dignity to the poor, marginalized, vulnerable and dispossessed…is prepared to recognize a form of civil unions for couples of the same gender so as to ensure that no human being in Barbados will be discriminated against, in exercise of civil rights that ought to be theirs.”

The government stopped short of also recognizing gay marriage to avoid a battle with the Church and a society happy to be labelled Christian.

It is hardly a secret the blogmaster abhors the homosexual lifestyle. However acceptance across the globe, especially in so called developed countries continues to rise. Using simple natural law theory a man was born with a penis, a woman with a vagina. This makes it self evident what the creator intended. Some will call-out the blogmaster as being overly simplistic and this is fine.

The blogmaster has never gotten tired of David vs Goliath anecdotes. It is the mindset which gave birth to Barbados Underground blog in April of 2007.

If you don’t believe in something, you’ll fall for anything. I believe everything happens for a reason. If you are strong from within, you can will anything. I’m a firm believer that where there’s a will, there’s a way.

Eric Davis

It seems Barbados is about to release the homosexual genie from the proverbial lamp at a time when many countries are still debating the issue. The question that must be asked is why the rush? Is Barbados being forced to prioritise what is rightfully referred to as a wedge issue as a requirement to competitively sell the Barbados Welcome Stamp initiative? Is this a case of Prime Minister Mia Mottley because of an overwhelming mandate from the electorate in 2018 and a predilection for the fairer sex feels now is the time to force the change at this time?

The blogmaster understands we have to treat all citizens equally BUT there is something wrong with same sex relationships.

Barbados is an island built on traditional values, it seems we are about to graft homegrown values with those imported from overseas. How will the propagation work out for us? Only time will tell.

276 responses to “Mottley’s Rush to Legalize Same Sex Union”

  1. Lawson Avatar
    Lawson

    The question is Hal if and when you came out

  2. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    @VC
    The crux lies within the Church and their multiple explanations by sector of the Christian faith they represent.
    Today in Barbados, several HUGE shareholders and customers of major organizations are not only gay or lesbian but openly so. Some are married.
    The day our large businesses opt to cut off the Church, and they are relatively large donors, things will change.
    Notice also, this tend to be a male- female issue. Our mothers love us regardless of our orientation. Our fathers, are the wild card, even if their involvement went beyond conception. Females who oppose are generally getting direction from wherever they worship. Thankfully motherly love usually wins out in the long run.

  3. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    @ Lawson

    Never liked Glasgow. Too rough.

  4. John Avatar
    John

    No sign of Fry’s Cocoa yet.

    Still looking for my trifecta.

  5. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Mariposa September 22, 2020 10:49 AM
    The issue IS discrimination. It is the only issue. I’m not trying to make you like homosexuals, I’m just trying to stop Barbadians from discrimination against their fellow human beings. Period.
    What you believe is your own business.
    Firstly, what you call the laws of God apply ONLY to those who believe in that God. To other human beings they are simply your religious beliefs. You do NOT live in a Theocracy.
    Secondly, the laws of Barbados should apply to all Barbadians equally, not one set of laws for heterosexual people and another set for homosexual people.

  6. Lawson Avatar
    Lawson

    even he dogs wear knives in glasgow

  7. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    Damn straight! Lol

    My son would be my son no matter what! Bishop Michael Maxwell or not! He should try having a word with Gibson whom the other priests wanted as Bishop or Rock, the former Principal of Codrington College.

    I know all three of them and Maxwell is a nice man but avoids controversy and dealing with difficult issues. Not so much the other two.

    P.S. This is not a red herring issue to gay people but rather very important. This is the time for a reset on ALL forms of discrimination. Easier to get it over and done with in Barbados so we can move on to what we really need to do

  8. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    @ Lawson

    A Glaswegian kiss.

  9. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    Let’s see if they get it now!

  10. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Hal Austin September 22, 2020 10:50 AM
    “How do you determine good and evil agnostically?”
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I determine it in the same way that I determine that the sky is blue and water is wet… by looking at the world and using my mind. I have always found it to be astounding that other people seem to need to be told the difference between good and evil. It is perfectly clear to me.

  11. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    @PLT

    You are so predictable in his arguments. What is good and evil in your little blue sky and wet water universe? Do you believe there is any such thing as ‘good’ and ‘evil’? If so, how do you define them?
    When Don Blackman, John Connell, Aldon Browne, David ‘Palla’ Blackman et al were still at College and Combermere, every Friday and Saturday night they would get together and argue the most minutiae of points about the most ridiculous of topics. On get familiar with that nonsense.
    Later in my life, I took part in moots that were just as insignificant and ridiculous. It was, and is, juvenile.

  12. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    @ David BU at 12 :31 PM
    We are all traveling untrodden paths;and that is how it should be and always was. Our remit as citizens is to ensure that measures instituted on our behalf reflect the will of the majority or at least encompass the well-being of all of us.

  13. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    Yes @VC we did both zero laser like on that remark… Although I disagree slightly on your prescription!

    I do not perceive that the ‘church’ position is particularly relevant in PRACTICAL terms… others (specifically @Austin) have noted what should be the real issues for ALL the enduring same sex unions in Bim, basically: pension, inheritance rights etc!

    Rather that – to use the Blogmaster’s hilarious note – bcz, “It is being led by a PM who all agree is predisposed to devouring this wedge issue”.

    No @David, she has been eating with relish lots of cheese and other succulent wedges since she was a QC girl I’m sure so I don’t see that she needs to bring legislation to validate that particular food choice…you can be a funny guy often 🤣

    So back to you @VC the sodomy act is absurdly anachronistic and will be repealed … but as you know similar laws are still acted upon across our brethren African nations, as another strange construct of ‘human rights’ as executed by us Black folks.

    In fact considering @Austin’s Brits sailor anecdote one can rephrase Mighty Sparrow’s ’60 million Frenchmen can’t be wrong’, and assert that ‘6,000 Brits knew what was right for them’ and add that the entire Bajan society – Christian and all – ALWAYS had a very socially acceptable ‘gaydar’ from Monday to Saturday and sought their penance on Sunday …. Not a ting, stopping all-ah-dem from continuing that lovely tradition.

    Now, however, a fella or gal would get the inheritance and other such rights with their same-sex partner if they had a common-law defined civil union. On that basic level @VC same-sex couples were discriminated against for years.!

    And finally David, my brother to be blunt: screwing every woman you can and birthing children like kittens all bout de place is a deviant life style too; lying. cheating and philandering are also deviant; talking nuff bout ‘white shadows’ and systematic discriminations on one hand in HofA and then systematically corruptly stealing from your fellow Black brethren is terribly more deviant. There is lots of deviance in lifestyles around.

    So yes the noted sexual choices may be abhorrent biblically and personally but there are really no other valid grounds to have otherwise reasonable people so terribly disadvantaged.

  14. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @David
    “The blogmaster understands we have to treat all citizens equally, BUT […] Barbados is an island built on traditional values…”
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    It is disappointing to see you abandon critical thinking in regard to this issue. We do “have to treat all citizens equally,” no ifs, ands, or buts. Nobody cares if if you abhor “the homosexual lifestyle” just do not discriminate. You can abhor until the cows come home, but as soon as you discriminate you are committing an evil act.

    What traditional values was Barbados actually built on. I mean, really… the actual history, not rose coloured glasses. The most fundamental traditional value between 1627 and 1937 was racism. Nothing else comes close as a value which profoundly shaped Barbadian society. Are you proud of this traditional value? Oh, Christian values you say? Well there were some lovely Christian people like the Right Excellent Sarah Ann Gill, but she had very little power. The establishment of the Christian Church were mostly profoundly evil people… people like Beilby Porteous, Bishop of London, who in 1808 urged that enslaved people in Barbados be converted to Christianity in order to develop “… a race of young Christian negroes…” who would be exemplary for their “… humility, submission, and obedience to their masters;” It certainly seems to have worked like a charm.

  15. David Avatar
    David

    @Peter

    The blogmaster has no problem with treating individuals equally. The blogmaster has a problem with the lifestyle.

    >

  16. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    What is the “life style” of a homosexual? Do they all have the same lifestyle?

  17. Enuff Avatar
    Enuff

    David
    What is a lifestyle? Until you can accept that there is no such thing as the gay lifestyle, you will never move forward. The same people responsible for that coinage, had other words for people that look like you and me too.

  18. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Hal Austin September 22, 2020 1:08 PM
    “Do you believe there is any such thing as ‘good’ and ‘evil’? If so, how do you define them?”
    +++++++++++++++++
    You first asked “How do you determine good and evil agnostically?” so I gave you a straightforward answer both by analogy, and then by methodology (by looking at the world and using my mind).
    I am reluctant to follow you further down this rabbit hole because you will respond to each answer with a further question while pretending that I have not answered your previous question. So I will compromise… I will answer your second question. Yes I think there is such a thing as good and evil. However I decline to answer your Nietzschean third question because that will simply prompt a fourth, fifth, sixth etc while you fail to acknowledge my answers to any previous question and instead give me another of your schoolday reminiscences. I will conclude instead by agreeing most heartilly with you… “It was, and is, juvenile.”

  19. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    It is a criminal offence in England and Wales to ‘sweet’ talk a woman in to bed by telling her you are what you are not. The problem is to bring charges the woman must give evidence.

  20. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @DavidSeptember 22, 2020 1:39 PM
    “The blogmaster has no problem with treating individuals equally.”
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Excellent! It therefore follows logically that you will fully support legislation that establishes civil unions so that homosexual individuals can be treated equally in this area of their lives.
    I am glad to hear it.

  21. David Avatar
    David

    @enuff

    Lifestyle, choice, potato patatoe. It is not normal in t(e opinion of the blogmaster. If you have a predilection to engage in same sex behaviour, deal with it!

    >

  22. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    DPD,

    The goodly Christians are always saying that there is no big sin and little sin and then illogically set out to make a list of the big sins of which homosexuality is the biggest.

    And … a no victim act must be deemed to be a crime.

    How many other no victim acts are deemed to be a crime?

  23. David Avatar
    David

    @Peter

    There is a sentence in the blog that makes the point. However it does not mean the blogmaster should suppress his feelings about same sex relationships.

    >

  24. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    David

    We are unsure that you have a problem with the lifestyle per se.

    The real problem is its political elevation as a norm and the accompany influences on traditional values. Another case of minority rule or super citizenship

  25. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    If an action does direct harm to another, it is wrong. If an action infringes on somebody else’s rights, it is wrong.

    P.S. What is this blog about if the blogmaster has no problem treating people equally??????

  26. David Avatar
    David

    @Pacha

    Yes.

    >

  27. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    @ PLT

    Let us not go down the road of moral philosophy. In a society we cannot have citizens making up their values as they go along. Shared values are important to bind the society together.
    What is good and evil must be shared, and often are captured in the criminal law. I would not list Nietzsche among my favourite moral philosophers
    @PLT Don’t reply. I can anticipate what you will say. You can and do enjoy playing bo peep with debates. If you have concepts of good and bad, right and wrong, good and evil, then there must be a way of arriving at those beliefs.
    In a society of 300000 people we can’t all go around saying I enjoy killing people, so that is a collective good, but charity is silly, that is a collective bad.
    That is a normal philosophical supplemental question or don’t you like questions? But, of course, you are familiar with such debates, aren’t you. @PLT don’t answer.

  28. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    Let it go, David! You’ll feel better. Nobody is forcing you to like the lifestyle but to accept the individual’s right to live his or life as freely as you do.

    What do they take from you?

  29. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @David September 22, 2020 1:55 PM
    You can “feel” however you like… just do not discriminate. I am not the least interested in changing how you feel, I am only interested in protecting ALL my neighbors from discrimination, not just my straight neighbors.

  30. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    @ Donna

    I notice that you are implying that the Anglican Bishop of Barbados has enunciated a position that is at variance with other leading members of his communion. His is the responsibility to declare the official position of the Anglican Church in Barbados,which is the same taken over two decades ago at a Lambeth Conference.
    You should also note the fine distinction that he made between Same Sex Marriage and Civil Unions as made in the Throne Speech .
    Thanks @ dpD for clarifying that it has to do with rights to possession of property of the partnership when broken by death or separation.
    Wuh Loss!! A pre- union agreement would have served the purpose just as well..
    Wunnuh really like to mek mock sport at poor black people. on BU.

  31. Mariposa Avatar
    Mariposa

    PTL neither can the Govt forced people of religious belief to accept same sex unions as morals
    The discrimination factor only applies when the lifestyle rubs against the marriage between male and female
    A law that distinguishes and defines a male and female in marriage
    Other than that the homosexual is guaranteed all human rights

  32. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    Boy, the men sure sound grumpy! One would think the “bullers” are “bulling” in THEIR bedrooms.

  33. David Avatar
    David

    @Donna

    We live in the same space that we all try to actualize in. It conflicts with a commonsense view of what is normal based on how the blogmaster was socialized. We are a people connected to a single rhythm of life.

    The blogmaster decided to expressed his opinion about same sex unions which is obviously a precursor to gay marriage. Others are free to do the same. The fact that even the prime mister acknowledged in her post announcement addresses that she accepts it is a wedge issue should be sufficient for all in the discussion to be tolerant of the different views.

  34. David Avatar
    David

    The point also needs to be made that this is a debate raging in many countries across the globe.

  35. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Pachamama September 22, 2020 1:58 PM
    “The real problem is its political elevation as a norm and the accompany influences on traditional values.”
    ++++++++++++++++++
    This is complete bullshit. Homosexuality has been a part of the human condition for as long as there have been humans. Treating homosexual human beings as fully equal is contrary to only one traditional value, the traditional bigotry in which Barbados has been marinating since 1627. The fact that a value is “traditional” does not make it a moral value or a good value. The most foundational traditional value that permeates all of Barbadian history is racism. I assume that you are on board with consigning that traditional value to the dustbin of history. Bigotry against homosexual people is another “traditional value” that we inherited from Colonial enslavers who considered themselves to be our masters. It deserves to be treated with the same contempt that we treat racism because it is the moral equivalent of racism and has its origins in the same sick society.

  36. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    Vincent,

    DPD did not clarify anything. I did that minutes after the announcement was made.

    As the the Anglican position, they never made one decision for me. And as for the gentlemen I mentioned, different opinions are allowed in the Anglican Church. Also what is said at Codrington College seldom makes it to the pulpit in a hurry. Gibson and Rock were creatures of Codrington College and enquiry from whence changes come.

  37. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    Mariposa September 22, 2020 2:06 PM
    “… neither can the Govt forced people of religious belief to accept same sex unions as morals”
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Absolutely right… so nobody will force any people of religious belief to be part of a same sex union. If you don’t like honmosexuality the solution is very simple, don’t be a homosexual. Just don’t try to cram your religious belief down other people’s throats. Just do not discriminate against homosexual people, nobody wants to force you to be homosexual.

  38. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @David September 22, 2020 2:10 PM
    “The blogmaster decided to expressed his opinion about same sex unions which is obviously a precursor to gay marriage.”
    ++++++++++++++++
    The PM has made it clear that she considers civil unions to be exclusively a matter for the state, and marriage to be exclusively a matter for religion. It is an elegant solution to a divisive social issue. Let us see if she can follow through to the conclusion. Every couple should enter into a civil union because that is a matter for the law and the state. Those that are religious can additionally choose to get married. Nobody should force religions to marry people who do not abide by the tenets of that religion. Marriage should have no meaning in law, being purely a religious ceremony. Family law should apply to those who have entered into civil union or common law civil union by cohabitation for the period that now applies to common law marriage. Homosexual people who cohabit should have the same responsibilities to their long term partners as heterosexual people do.

    I got married in the Oistins courthouse in Barbados… we forbid the Magistrate from making any reference to anyone’s God in our ceremony. We would happily trade in our marriage certificate for a new civil union certificate… in fact I might just insist, in the spirit of equality, in my right to do that.

  39. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    Murdah!

    Just looked up the Church of England position. So…. PRIESTS can be in a same sex civil union as long as they practise abstinence.

    I actually thought they had got it right and that we were sticking out.

    What a load of crap!
    🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

  40. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    That is the perfect solution. Civil unions recognized by the State and marriages strictly by the Church. No longer would the priest or pastor be an officer of the State

  41. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Donna September 22, 2020 2:38 PM
    “… PRIESTS can be in a same sex civil union as long as they practise abstinence.”
    +++++++++++++++++
    This is hilarious! But David should like it because it avoids the “lifestyle” which so horrifies him. The hypocrisy is not a problem, just the lifestyle.

  42. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    @ David BU

    Not to fear. BU Household probably giving better ventilation to this non- issue than it will get in other places. Your Social responsibility is discharged.

  43. WURA-War-on-U Avatar
    WURA-War-on-U

    “The PM has made it clear that she considers civil unions to be exclusively a matter for the state, and marriage to be exclusively a matter for religion.”

    this is what happens when ya STUCK in a colonial system that ya did not design, ya talk pure shite, because you do not have any roots and culture……a mere colonial creature, empty shell, a figment of slave master’s and their descendants centuries old fantasies and delusions….🤣🤣😂😂…

  44. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    Marriage is legally recognised union of two persons. A civil union is a new form of legal relation. The church has no legal authority in our common law system to recognise any marriages. The church ceremony is simply a ritual. The marriage is not legally recognised until it is performed and registered by a legally recognised official..

  45. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    @John September 21, 2020 8:19 PM “Wasn’t anyone in your village familiar with the term lesbian back then or was this term only recently invented?”

    All the people in my village brite as sh!te. We all knew the terms homosexual and lesbian. We also know that it it is correct to say homosexual man; and homosexual woman.

    Male homosexuals do not own the term homosexual.

    Wunna men wanta own everything? Even the language?

    Cheeze on bread!

  46. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    To Miller etc.

    I am of African, NOT Mediterranean ancestry.

  47. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    Ministers have ruled out changes to make it easier for transgender people in England and Wales to have their gender legally recognised.

    They have rejected calls for people to be able to self-identify their gender and change their birth certificates without a medical diagnosis.

    Ministers said reform of the 2004 Gender Recognition Act was not the “top priority” for trans people.

    Equality campaigners said it showed a “shocking failure of leadership”.

    But women’s rights groups applauded the decision as a “victory for fairness and common sense”.

    Ministers are pledging action to make it easier for trans people to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate and to improve healthcare services for them.

    But LGBT groups had urged them to go much further, by making it easier for people to legally transition from their birth sex and to provide greater protection under the law.

    Currently, the Gender Recognition Act requires trans people to go through a long process in order to change their birth certificates….(Quote)

  48. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    @Miller “How about a referendum to ‘make’ menstruating women go into quarantine for 7 days as required by the rules of Yahweh the desert god of Dr. GP and you”

    I am fine with this as long as wunna men understand that while I am in pain and in quarantine i expect wunna to look after the children as well as i do, without any input from me. Provide me with three well prepared meals each day, that you keep the home clean, not like a pigsty, that you do the laundry, pay the bills as they become due, and that you pay me my standard wages while i am in quarantine.

    I am ready when you are.

  49. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    @Hal Austin September 22, 2020 4:56 AM “t child birth by male ‘mothers’?”

    If you are human and can become pregnant and give birth you are NOT male.

    Regardless of what some silly people in England feel.

    “Out of the entire animal kingdom, male seahorses (and their close relatives, pipefish and seadragons) are the only males in the world that undergo pregnancy and give birth to their offspring.”

    Humans are NOT seahorses.

  50. WURA-War-on-U Avatar
    WURA-War-on-U

    Cuddear…ya may soon be of Arab ancestry…slave traders…😂😂🤣🤣

    “The proposed new missions are High Commissions in Kenya and Ghana, an Embassy in the United Arab Emirates and a Consulate at Casablanca, Morocco.”

    I suggest alyuh reacquaint yaself with Africa real quick. ..cause ya sure as hell don’t want to wake up and find yaselves in Morocco or UAE.

    Abibitumi.com

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