est. 2007

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Barbadians, ALL Together NOW!

…The discussion must turn to how can we run a country on 25% less revenue than planned over the next 2 years. It does not have to come to layoffs either. It can come from improved tax collection, greater efficiency etc. It does not have to be a case of just “sending home people”… BU…

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…The discussion must turn to how can we run a country on 25% less revenue than planned over the next 2 years. It does not have to come to layoffs either. It can come from improved tax collection, greater efficiency etc. It does not have to be a case of just “sending home people”…

BU Commenter: John A

What has has been weighing on the blogmaster’s mind in recent weeks you ask?

In light of the Covid 19 pandemic most economies in the world have been negatively affected whether service based, commodity driven or combination of the two. The result is that citizens will have to make sacrifices until ‘normalcy’ is achieved. This is particularly true for the most vulnerable people in society – the indigent and sick.

The 500 million dollar projected shortfall in government’s budget as a consequence of the prevailing adverse economic conditions is a reality not many Barbadians have come to grips if one listens to public discussion. Made more acute the country is suffering from economic fatigue after a severe debt restructure and a decade or more of economic wutlessness.

Obviously government has a moral obligation to find ways to keep workers employed. One does not have to be a rocket scientist to appreciate that changes – especially if unplanned – to the tax base will negatively impact revenues therefore compromising government’s financial obligations to pay for public goods and services.

Government’s ability to collect taxes is also affected by a performing private sector. If the private sector contracts for any reason by shutting down businesses or sending home workers, contributions to government’s tax/NIS revenues will adversely impact finances. Covid 19 has created the perfect challenge for all governments including Barbados.

Having mentioned the economic and fiscal hurdles facing the country, it is easy to forget the social challenges that have inevitably resulted to make governing more complex.

The country is currently embroiled in a discussion about the details of how the proposed Barbados Optional Savings Scheme (BOSS) will be implemented. The success of BOSS and other fiscal measures are simply that, short term. If the global economy is lazy to respond to recovery it means SIDs like Barbados will have big problems as it burns cash in hand (reserves) to pay salaries and other unsustainable activities to maintain a reasonable standard of living.  More and more rehashed commentary about how successive governments have built the economy on sand, encourage covert corruption and fuelled a culture of political patronage or a country living above its means will surface. This will make for good political discussion, however, does not make for constructive debate in the unprecedented climate we find ourselves.

The lengthy preamble to the thesis is – as a people are we capable of pivoting from the type of vacuous national discourse we have become accustomed to be replaced by one that is apropos?

A good place to start is to work at disrupting old thought patterns that encourage same old same outcomes. Easier said than done but is must be done if we are to survive as a nation out here in the global rat race.

…Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country…

John F. Kennedy

 

 

136 responses to “Barbadians, ALL Together NOW!”

  1. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Wily Coyote June 2, 2020 12:32 PM
    “PLT is still promoting an offshore financial system for Barbados…”
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Nothing could be further from the truth. You misunderstand what I am suggesting. I am suggesting recruiting neighbors, not bank accounts. I want people who live among us, raise their families here, send their kids to our kids birthday parties, and hang out with us for souse on a Saturday.

  2. Tee White Avatar
    Tee White

    We need to restructure Barbados so that no citizen is destitute, public revenues are sufficient to meet public expenditures, public services use technology to dramatically improve efficiency, and efficient public sector purchases of goods and services are completely free of corruption.
    #####
    And achieving that will require political action by those who would benefit from such a change. Those who benefit from the status quo will oppose it. 1816 and 1937 here we come again.

  3. David Avatar
    David

    @Pacha

    To destabilize Emera will disrupt a stable grid important for doing business.

    @Peter

    We have to refashion the taste for goods and services which reduces conspicuous consumption or webgo nowhere fast.

  4. Tee White Avatar
    Tee White

    @ Wily Coyote

    Peter these kind of humanitarian and socilistic views are basically what got Barbados to its present situation. Nothings FREE, SOMEONE HAS TO PAY. PRESENTLY THOSE PAYING ARE GETTING FED UP WITH THOSE LIMING, WHINING and BEGGING.

    #######

    It’s important that we understand our history because then we would better understand the state of our country. What you call humanitarian and socialistic views, by which I think you’re referring to the embryonic social welfare provision that exists in the country, were a necessary requirement to stabilise a society that had already exploded in 1937 and in which after 300 years of capitalism, 200 under slavery and 100 under colonial apartheid, the mass of Bajans were in destitution and poverty. Any idea that Bajans can be forced back down to that level is to play with fire.

    Nothing has ever been free, not the profits of the business owners and moneylenders, the wages and salaries of the workers or the revenues of the government. They all come out of the wealth created by the labour of workers in Barbados. The issue then is what happens to this wealth. Is it to be handed over to the rich who can fritter it away as they like while others go destitute or is it to be used for the well being of all? That’s the choice our country faces. There is no alternative to restructuring Barbados so that the well being of its citizens is the purpose of the economy and of a new and genuinely democratic political system.

  5. Crusoe Avatar
    Crusoe

    One possible opportunity is healthcare tourism, matching the meducal universties. Provide quality healthcare to US etc citizens, which are very expensive. This could be a good earner of forex.

  6. Wily Coyote Avatar
    Wily Coyote

    @PLT
    “How are we going to redefine tourism, ‘international financial services’ or rum to make an impact this fiscal year??

    I noted that INTERNATIONAL FINANCIAL SERVICES were included as one of your three suggested revenue generation sources. What are you suggesting here other than sheltering/hiding etc. like previous Barbados registration of of Trust accounts which is now basically shut down.

  7. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Wily Coyote June 2, 2020 1:24 PM
    Ahhh, now I understand where what I wrote was confusing. My apologies.

    My list was of our historical FX sources. My idea was to redefine tourism to ignore the short stay mass tourism market and concentrate on the new work from home live in Barbados market. I have no suggestions as yet for either international financial services or rum.

  8. Enuff Avatar
    Enuff

    @PLT 7:26am
    Amen!!

  9. ks Avatar
    ks

    Seems most agree we need to be more efficient at Tax Collection……. as PLT suggested…let’s be “bold”….. firstly, 10X times the number of BRA outlets so we don’t have to line-up in the hot sun & rain; eliminate some of the archaic ‘rules’ making it difficult to pay your taxes; ramp-up the website bandwidth so we are not staring at a static webpage waiting to proceed to the next step; and so on…. just my little contribution.

  10. Enuff Avatar
    Enuff

    Happy to see no one is talking about canned pigeon peas, yams and breadfruits.🤣🤣

  11. Wily Coyote Avatar
    Wily Coyote

    @TEE WHITE

    I agree with your philosophy, the only BIG QUESTION is how do you propose to accomplish this with HIGH DEBT LEVELS, NO GDP and limited cash flow.

  12. John A Avatar
    John A

    @ David.

    Don’t look at the emera situation that way. Put things in place so emera can also be part of the solar expansion drive. They got generators to replace soon, put things in place so the replacement comes from solar and not fossil fuel. In other words include them and not fight against them.

    Look at what Florida Light has done over the last ten years and encourage them to mirror it. It’s all about putting in place a state plan that includes all.

  13. Redguard Avatar
    Redguard

    Barbados and most of the other Caribbean islands will be recolonised, not by a Country, but a corporation. The same way desperate politicians sold the island out to a small fry like Butch during a “minor” crisis, what do you think happens if Mark Zuckerberg, or Elon Musk asks for the St. Lucy to build a campus or a mini city of a future for testing AI controlled cars, drones and whatever else they can think of.
    What happens when the Maloneys, Williams and Bjerkhams meet with the PM and tell her they have a way out that will bring 10,000 construction jobs over 10 years, and continuous employment for thousands, it just requires giving a parish or two to a corporation and giving them complete sovereignty over the area for 99 years.

  14. Tron Avatar
    Tron

    Let me summarize your discussion: There is no path without pain. Any austerity measures will only exacerbate the recession in the short term. Like a drug addict, our society is dependent on state transfers and employment with the state.

    We should therefore think long-term: the opportunity is more favourable than ever for “currency consolidation” and “optimisation” of the public sector.

    To cushion the impact of hardship, I suggest:

    First, a government-sponsored emigration program; emigrants must transfer money back to the island for 5 years. In return, an immigration program for rich foreigners (citizenship by investment) with tax exemption for the first five years and after that a flat rate for all incomes of 15 percent. Condition: At least $10 million investment in the first five years.

    Secondly, no layoffs in the public sector, but a 10-year recruitment freeze in combination with early retirement (compulsory) at 55.

    Thirdly, a reduction in pensions for former politicians and civil servants of the S grades. OSA, for example, does not need a high pension, he is supposed to become CEO of LIAT. Or is this information no longer up-to-date?

    Fourthly, a one-time “patriotic” capital levy for Barbados taxpayers with net assets in excess of USD 1 million, amounting to 10 percent of their assets. In return, all those who pay at least 1 million extra will receive the honorary title “Sir”. Whoever pays at least 10 million will be declared a national hero, from 100 million on there will be a portrait on a banknote. Isn’t that an incentive?

  15. John A Avatar
    John A

    Remember too that emera buys their fuel from government who then has to look for hard currency to buy the said fuel on the open market. If we can reduce the demand for fossil base fuel we all win. Emera goes ahead with large scale alternative plans, which We guarantee them the same ROI percentage wise on. The only people that lose out here are the oil suppliers.

    The move must be all-inclusive for it to work, we can’t go at it half way like we did in the past. I invite those that haven’t seen it yet to drive up shophill opposite BRC and see the solar farm Bizzy is doing. It can be built in months and put online.

  16. ks Avatar
    ks

    @Redguard
    better yet ….why not let them build an island (a la Altman)…… and a separate one with a Quarantine Hospital….medical tourism!!

  17. Redguard Avatar
    Redguard

    @ks that island idea was a non-starter, Altman copying from the Arabs, plus he wanted government to foot the bill the build them and let him reap the majority of the profits in sales

  18. David Avatar
    David

    @John A

    Like your approach about creating a win win plan with Emera. In the past one got the impression EMERA principals led the discussion. What is Wilfred doing?

    >

  19. Tron Avatar
    Tron

    It would also be conceivable to set up a special economic zone, without customs duties, taxes and with the US dollar as trading currency. In China this works splendidly. Tech companies that love the tropical flair could settle in Barbados. So from the office directly to the beach.

    If I remember correctly, Chris Sinckler also wanted to introduce this, at least in a slimmed-down version.

  20. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Wily Coyote June 2, 2020 12:39 PM
    Let’s do the arithmetic and think UBI through, OK?

    So let us first make sure that no Barbadian citizen is destitute, OK. The most recent data that I can dig up on poverty is from the 2016 IDB research https://publications.iadb.org/en/barbados-survey-living-conditions-2016. It showed that:
    • 3.65% of Barbadians existed below the extreme poverty line of $297.28 per month per person
    • 13.83% additional Barbadians existed below the non-extreme poverty line = extreme poverty line + basic non-food consumption valued at $642.52 per month per person
    • 11.05% additional Barbadians were at risk of poverty because they had less than $803.15 per month per person
    So 28.53% of Barbadians live in poverty or at risk of poverty.

    The adult population of Barbados amounts to about 228,000 people, about 79% of our all Barbadians. If we institute UBI of $225/week we can lift the entire population out of poverty. We will of course tax it all back from those earning a decent salary, so the cost will be about $225 x 52 x 228,000 x 28.53% = $761 million.

    Now all this gets spent in the local economy, so 17.5% of that immediately returns to public revenue as VAT. That is $133 million. So now we need to find $628 million. The UBI also replaces everything that the government spends in unemployment, non-contributory pensions, and welfare. I’m not sure how much that is, but we currently spend $381 million on grants to individuals. So let’s guess that the duplication accounts for $228 million. Now we have to find $400 million.

    We then shut down the welfare department. The savings are just chicken feed.

    Then we cancel the $200 million we were going to throw at the tourism sector for painting and renovating their hotels… they can get commercial loans at great rates for that purpose. Now we have to find $200 million.

    We take the final $200 million from the government scheme to subsidize home ownership for those earning $1,000/week or more.

    There you go. It can be done. We just require the political will.

    The $761 million injection of spending power to the most vulnerable in society will act as powerful economic stimulus… much more powerful that the governments current $2 billion over 2 years plan. This is because UBI will be immediately spent on locally produced necessities of life: sweet potatoes, chicken parts, mangoes, etc. Hardly any of it will be frittered away on imports.

    You probably have not even guessed my ulterior motive. This will bring everyone into the formal economy, because no Bajan can resist a freeness. Everyone will have to get an account at a Credit Union or Bank because there will be no lining up at post offices wasting time and money; it will all be electronically deposited into people’s accounts.

  21. John A Avatar
    John A

    @ David.

    The way I would look at Emera is the same as any other company. They want a return on their investment and that’s it. All we need to do is put in place the framework to guide them towards alternative energy as opposed to diesel generation. Once the incentives are there they will take that road. They are in the business of providing electricity and not drilling for oil. It’s all a matter of discussing with them our wishes and offering them the correct encouragement. As I said inclusion as opposed to opposition. I am sure this whole covid thing has opened their eyes as well.

    It also means they can offer a more predictable electricity rate to the public as they will not have to worry about oil price fluctuations globally.

  22. PoorPeacefulandPolite Avatar
    PoorPeacefulandPolite

    The answer to the economic and social decline we are going to be facing inevitably, will be migration. Since the 1840 there have been several waves of it not only to North American and Canada but also to other countries in the region and South America. My grandfather migrated to Guyana to prospect for gold in the North West District. Others family ancestors went to Cuba and Panama after the collapse of the day’s single industry. Public servants and young people should take these days to pivot and find alternative skills into which to diversify and keep afloat. Wherever you end up resting your head – that place is Barbados !! Barbadans are vakued people wherever they go.

  23. John A Avatar
    John A

    @ PLT @3.10

    What you are proposing is workable and the net amount you will need to look for would even be less than you think. The add on of vat from the project and the ability of those involved to consume, will drive the vat receipts higher. The worker for instance who now has a pick at say $1800 a month goes into the supermarket and buys, treats the girlfriend to a night out. This is where the informal economy now contributes more than many expect when there is liquidity. The fish vendor, the food van etc, all those unmeasureable forces now come into play to bolster the economy.

  24. WURA-War-on-U Avatar
    WURA-War-on-U

    “Wily estimates that the government $500M shortfall in revenue is well under estimated, shortfall over the next 18 months is likely to be in the $1.5B range.”

    that is how mathematics work without any deviation….

    the 1 Billion written off for VAT thieves..

    the 500,000 written off for another bunch or same thieves, family and friends….=1.5 Billion dollars…

    that will always be a shortfall…defici…t and there is no way to recoup or recover especially with a bunch of parasites sucking on everything that is still left behind which is not much by today’s environment…and no other useful industries in sight..

    Barbados population will not grow if the people are intelligent and realize they are being used and set up to feed and create wealth for parasites and not for themselves and their current and future generations…

    “Others family ancestors went to Cuba and Panama after the collapse of the day’s single industry. ”

    one would think the as*holes of parliament would have learned something from that, but no post early 20th century they are still FORCING THEIR PEOPLE TO BE DEPENDENT and don’t have a jot of intelligence to even lead themselves…..but they know only too well how to stuff their fat guts with everything….and as for that shaving off 100+ million dollars off of civil servants salarie’s …i guess annually…that would be going mostly to them and their fellow parasites..

  25. David Avatar
    David

    @Peter

    What you have tabled looks good for a working session to kick of things. What will have to be also addressed is how to rid ourselves of the power structures of the ‘establishment’ that will resist to protect self interest.

  26. WURA-War-on-U Avatar
    WURA-War-on-U

    “What happens when the Maloneys, Williams and Bjerkhams meet with the PM and tell her they have a way out that will bring 10,000 construction jobs over 10 years, and continuous employment for thousands, it just requires giving a parish or two to a corporation and giving them complete sovereignty over the area for 99 years.”

    that would be solely to rob the treasury and pension fund and she is so stupid and lacking in intelligence…she would allow it, because she is just as small time and backward as them and have no care for her own people living or dead.

  27. Tron Avatar
    Tron

    I consider UBI to be the devil’s work. In my view, unemployment among former employees is nothing more than the unwillingness or inability to try their hand at the market as entrepreneurs. If we were to introduce UBI, even more people would be resting on the social hammock than is already the case.

    We need not more, but much less welfare state to promote independent thinking and free entrepreneurship. 95 percent of all Barbadians think economically in the categories of socialism and socially in the categories of the Taliban. This is why there is no progress with new forms of tourism and social liberation of minorities persecuted by the majority society.

    Metaphorically speaking, we do not need social amphetamines in these difficult times, but rather treatment of the masses with the social electroshock device, so that they take the initiative for a self-determined life, instead of just eking out a living as dependent civil servants and employees as in the past.

    Many here on BU complain about the white businessmen and yet at the same time want to keep the black masses in the bondage of the welfare state and dependent wage labour in order to control them. That is no small contradiction.

  28. ks Avatar
    ks

    What ever happened to the idea of allowing Bajans to buy items Duty Free provided they use FX???
    When in possession of FX, we do not spend it locally…. most prefer to hop on a plane and fly to PR, Miami, etc. … and buy!
    Kill that ‘incentive’!

  29. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    Tron June 2, 2020 3:52 PM
    There are so many young people I meet who would be able to study coding or start a small business if they had a means of bare survival while they did so. UBI would be that means of survival while they built their capacity to achieve great things. Success depends on the ability to take risks… that is why the rich White boys and girls are so often more successful as entrepreneurs, because they have the support to take risks without starving when things don’t work out; they just try again.

  30. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Tron June 2, 2020 3:52 PM
    If you think $225 a week gets you “resting on the social hammock” you are very much mistaken. All it does is stave off death for another week.

  31. WURA-War-on-U Avatar
    WURA-War-on-U

    Well if those house negros think they have seen something, wait until about 800,000 of the 1.6 Billion population of the African descended gets going WORLDWIDE….small island shitehounds will then be put firmly in their places…

    “When the Target starts burning down, the Black liberal will fight harder to put it out than its owners. But as Malcolm X said: “You had another Negro out in the field. The house Negro was in the minority. The masses – the field Negroes were the masses. They were in the majority. When the master got sick, they prayed that he’d die. If his house caught on fire, they’d pray for a wind to come along and fan the breeze.”

    They gave you the platform, but there are more of us than there are of you. The greatest trick you ever pulled off was to make it seem that it was you who represented the majority of Black people and it were those radically against colonial policing who were few and far between. Now you see us in our thousands. Stop crying.”

  32. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    We must be careful that migration does not set back black progress. Some of the folks I see here are frightening.

  33. Tron Avatar
    Tron

    @ peterlawrencethompson June 2, 2020 4:02 PM

    If you want to introduce large-scale monetary gifts with the earmarking as risk capital for business start-ups, I’m right behind you. However, we should not then distribute the money with a watering can, but give it to the young generation in a targeted manner.

  34. Tron Avatar
    Tron

    @ TheOGazerts June 2, 2020 4:37 PM

    There is a country in South America, just 800 kilometres away, where milk and honey flow. The most talented people from North America and the Caribbean are already there, in El Dorado. Emigration is not a threat, but a promise.

  35. WURA-War-on-U Avatar
    WURA-War-on-U

    All together now, they only opened for one week for elections and that was enough to jump from 0 to over 30 cases of plague..

    “Fertus Boerenveen
    Yesterday at 12:54 PM
    CALL!!!!

    Hereby I would like to ask the Surinamese in the Netherlands to support their family and friends in the fight against this virus. It has struck again and Suriname has to be flat. Just putting aside all business disputes and take this seriously. We don’t want Brazilian scenes in Suriname. That’s why now take all precautions to integrate this virus. You know the rules of game.
    We do this together.”

  36. Dullard Avatar
    Dullard

    Let’s cut to the chase. I suggest that Barbados offer itself for sale to Canada. Or China. Or Germany.

    That way we don’t have to earn our way in the world or think too hard or make tough decisions. That’s seems to be what we want right?

  37. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Tron June 2, 2020 5:02 PM
    I am very experienced in entrepreneurship development and I can help any young entrepreneur improve their chance of success considerably. What I cannot do is predict which of them will be successful; for that you need clairvoyance, not expertise. The mistake that you are making is exactly the one that socialist administrations have been making for over a century with state enterprises. Even the best venture capitalists in Silicon Valley cannot predict with any accuracy which ones of their investments will succeed and which ones will fail. They simply try hard to help a whole bunch of entrepreneurs and some of them succeed.

  38. Tron Avatar
    Tron

    PLT,

    Such a large scale boost for young entrepreneurs is indeed very useful. Failure is an experience, not a failure.
    So far, we have seen young entrepreneurs in Barbados mainly in the drug trade. That must change. In future I want to see black Williams brothers and a black Baloney ripping off white politicians in Barbados 😉

  39. Wily Coyote Avatar
    Wily Coyote

    @TRON

    I’m going for the “portrait on a banknote” always enjoyed Monopoly Money, by the way is $100M Guyana acceptable.

  40. Tron Avatar
    Tron

    Correction: Failure is an experience, not a shortcoming.

  41. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    @ John A
    The answer to your burning question which is repeated at the top of this moot is to re-prioritize the items on the to do list. If your revenue is cut by 25% cut expenditure by 25 % . That is commonsense and good economics. There is too much fat,more than 25%, in the current budget . Fortunately the financial process of the state is not stationary. There is a process called the multiplier effect which, if managed well, creates other sources of tax revenue. Was the Estimates stressed tested by the compilers ? Budgeting is not just simple book keeping.

  42. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    @ Pachamama

    You must be disappointed in your hope that a different approach to perceiving economic management through a new lens is still very far into the futur,. Do not be guided by what you read on Bu. Things are moving the way they should.

  43. Wily Coyote Avatar
    Wily Coyote

    @PLT

    Your proposal has MERIT, especially if taken out of the Barbadian Context. Like David said “rid ourselves of the power structures of the ‘establishment’ that will resist to protect self interest”. Tron also has a good point that “more people would be resting on the social hammock”. Your proposal has one FLAW that jumps out at me immediately, Most BAJAN”s are on the lookout for FREEBEES, HANDOUTS and not too interested in being entrepreneurs but more interested where and when is the next fete. Making this proposal in GERMANY would definitely result in a WIN WIN as Germans are born with a drive to succeed.

    The majority of the Barbados population is decedent from Indentured white Servants and African Slaves and have generally been guided(controlled) and looked after(feed and clothed) by a MASTER. Many years under this sub-servant master servant culture has apparently breed most entrepreneurship out.of their DNA. Most of colonial Masters made their fortunes off the colony and backs of this populace then retired back to the mother land, wherever whichever. These colonial masters dangled INDEPENDENCE in-front of some BLACK individuals and like a trout they jumped and took the bait. The ability to run a country comes from more than an INVITE to individuals that did not have training and skill levels to organize and run a country. Based on the last 20 years or so these individuals, governments, in power appear to still be lacking in training and skills. This is referenced by the fact the country on four separate occasions has had to get financial assistance and “guidance” from the IMF in 45 years of independence, note the “guidance” term in quotes.

    Davids quote keeps coming to mind, SAME OLD SAME OLD. Wily takes this quote to mean, IF WE DONE IT THIS WAY YESTERDAY THEN WE SHOULD DO IT THIS TOMORROW also. If someone, possibly you, can come with a means to change the Bajan mindset from what presently exists, then there is a possibility for a NEW ENTREPRENEURIAL BARBADOS which would no doubt succeeded.

  44. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @ Vincent
    I’m counting on you to point out ALL the flaws in my hypothetical UBI scheme.

  45. John A Avatar
    John A

    @ Vincent

    I believe the government knows what has to be done. The question is will they bell the cat or pull a Chris and kick the can down the road? Belling the cat is going to be an uncomfortable proposition for those involved.

  46. Wily Coyote Avatar
    Wily Coyote

    @JohnA

    The CAT IS SACRED and will never be belled, understand a consultant has been hired to get the printing presses in operational order.

  47. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    @PLT

    You often adopt positions, sometimes in a confused and unclear way, with such fervour that it is clear your natural calling is as an evangelical priest. The drive for a universal basic income, not surprisingly, is one called for by both the far right and far left. Political ideologies go round and round in circles.
    The idea has its appeal: a level of income that provides a basic decent standard of living without the humiliation of means-testing. But there is a huge debate most of which you seem to ignore or not to be aware of.
    We had a similar debate in the UK some years ago when Sir Steve Webb was pensions minister. It was about the contributory pension, and Sir Steve proposed a 30-year contributory period for a full state pension entitlement.
    In theory, generous and fine. But, let us assume that someone leaves university at age 25, makes a 30 year contribution, taking them to age 55, then retires on a state pension and lives to the age of 85..
    Let us also assume a young man or woman left school at age 16 and has to make a 30 contribution to become eligible for a full state pension, taking them to age 46. But the state retirement age is not 46, nor 55; it is in most states between 65 and 70. So, the working class guy will have to continue working for a further 21 years to reach age 67, whereas the university graduate will only have to work a further 12 years..
    During that period, s/he will still be making contributions to the state pension scheme (unless there is a special dispensation as in the UK at age 65). Do you see the unfairness of a universal basic income idea? How will you resolve that paradox?
    There are no easy answers. I do not want to drag on the issue. But I will separate out welfare and a retirement income. I will discuss it at another time.

  48. Tron Avatar
    Tron

    @ Wily Coyote June 2, 2020 7:00 PM

    Yes, it is about freeing people from their dependence on employers and social benefits. For Marxists, economic dependence is the second slavery. We need more entrepreneurship. In this respect PLT is working in the right direction.

    For the rest, most societies share the transformation problems you describe. The abolition of serfdom ran parallel to the liberation of slaves. This is no accident. The former serfs did not become independent peasants, but rural proletarians and then industrial proletarians. In economic terms they were thus almost as dependent as they were during the ancien régime. The history of the freed slaves was very similar.

    The after-effects are still being felt in Europe today. In areas with particularly strong serfdom before 1800, there is still less free entrepreneurship today. That too should give us food for thought for Barbados, since exceptions confirm the rule, as is well known. We would have to explain, for example, why the entrepreneurial quota in Jamaica is much higher than in Barbados, although conditions there are very similar.

  49. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    But Hal, Universal Basic Income is not a contributory pension. It is not dependent on making any contributions whatsoever. I proposed no means test for UBI; it goes to every single body, even C. O. Williams, but for middle and higher income levels it gets completely taxed back.

    So the unfairness of different contribution levels never enters the picture.

    You may or may not know that the non contributory pension that every Barbadian is entitled to whether or not they ever made a contribution to the NIS, is currently the same $225/week.

  50. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Hal,
    I’d be an utter failure as an evangelical priest because I have absolutely nothing to say unless I have factual data to work with. Priests, particularly evangelicals, work with nothing except mythology and imagination.

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