… Kevin Greenidge, explained that the “win-win” 18-month programme is designed to repurpose government’s expenditure, in an effort to push capital programmes that do not directly relate to tourism; for example, road works, the Barbados Water Authority’s vineyard project, the refurbishment of schools and the digitization of the public sector…

Source: BGIS

The government launched the Barbados Optional Savings Scheme (BOSS) last week. BOSS is a direct response to the crippling effect the COVID 19 pandemic has had on the global economy. All economies in the world have had to manage the fallout from the unprecedented high unemployment to respond to a man made economic recession triggered to safeguard public health.

The blogmaster has listened to arguments for and against the BOSS and the trend for every issue these days is determined by ones political inclination.

What the COVID 19 pandemic has done to is to create an unknown variable that makes it impossible for policymakers and individual households alike to engage in sensible financial planning and forecasting. However, what is known is that a deep revenue hole has been created in the financial budget for 2020/2021 and there is nobody on the planet who can predict the time it will take for economic activity to climb to pre Covid 19 level. The result is that whether in the USA, UK or Barbados unemployment has spiked.

The blogmaster is no fan of policies that will result to increasing the national debt or printing money. Especially coming after the recent debt restructuring that has had a toll. However, Barbados must execute  policies to boost economic activity to buy time until the global economy to respond. Will BOSS achieve the objective,  time will tell. What are the alternatives to BOSS?

It is easy for political leaders and others in civil society to shout at John Citizen do not do this, do not do that. If one listens to the same crew for alternatives, there is silence.

Service based economies like Barbados are presented with a greater challenge of recovery because there will be a dampened appetite for air and sea travel. It means thousands of workers will be negatively affected for months and years to come, there is no doubt. BOSS should not be seen as a panacea to solving all of our problems, it is meant to be a mitigant, to keep public sector workers employed are redirect circulation of monies in the construction sector. The government has accepted the moral responsibility – for now – to keep public servants employed during the pandemic. Those criticizing that cutting public sector workers salary is illegal, give us the alternative. If it is illegal the law can be amended for the good of all? The private sector has already responded with lay-offs and severing employees. Where does the government derive tax revenues tom pay public servants?

It would be negligent of the blogmaster not to take the opportunity to express concern about the financial state of the National Insurance Fund. The noise created by the pandemic has served to mask many of the problems the island had been battling. The inability of successive NIS Boards and governments to make public audited financial statements should be of equal concern by several of the budding political parties and traditional media. Do we know if the fund is able to live up to its tagline? Why should politicians on a whim and a fancy make decisions to grab NIS funds- our social security monies- to construct unnecessary buildings; fire station, lend to private projects; Four Seasons by avoiding rigorous qualification.

For as long as BU has had a presence in the Barbados space there has been a view echoed by the BU intelligentsia that Barbados is a country living above its pay grade. The blogmaster has to express disappointment that leaders in our tiny society have not been bold enough to address the issue of the need to recalibrate our unsustainable lifestyle. Politicians seem stuck in the mode of boosting popularity at the expense of what is in the national interest.

 

 

 

89 responses to “Political Parties about Boosting Popularity in a Crisis”


  1. @ David June 1, 2020 8:00 AM

    Because…., of what? Downright partisan political interference as in the case of the two DCoPs debacle?

    Or are you saying that in spite of all the mod-coms (ICT, etc) the Bajan civil service is not fit for purpose even with the support of so many statutory bodies and agencies?

    Maybe our ‘friend’ Senator Franklyn can offer a more informed assessment of the situation.


  2. @Miller

    You are not that naive.

    The consultants or opportunity to surround yourself with “your” people has always been with us. The other point to ponder is as the civil service modus operandi has been allowed to collapse under its weight, the requirement to circumvent it in order to get things done became a greater priority. Owen Arthur took it to a different level.

    >

  3. William Skinner Avatar
    William Skinner

    @ Lorenzo m
    It’s unfortunate that you persist that because you live in Barbados , you have a better understanding of the political goings on. First you must read carefully what I write and not where I live. I live in both places and another third island in the Caribbean. Perhaps I should send you my annual travel plans. I pay more taxes into the treasury than you can imagine.I assure you that I played a bigger role in the last elections than 98 percent of you know it alls on BU.
    Now , when I say that Piece is on his way to bringing down the current regime, I was merely saying what he desires or is attempting to do so. Not that it is an accomplished fact.
    Secondly you are one of those who delighted when Piece was going after the failed Stuart regime. If he now chooses to put his talent in the Atherley pool , who are you or me or anybody else to judge whether he can or cannot have similar success.
    You are it seems an intelligent and I think polite person. Would you kindly start to see our country and try your best to be more objective. I have had to shift my strategies to be even MORE nationalistic because I saw the real possibility of my country being wiped out through no fault of Sinkler or Mottley.
    You guys seem to be stuck in some place that all you see is one thing.. Oh before I forget , I usually get my high from a shot or two from pure white rum.Currently I am enjoying El Dorado 3 year old. Hopefully we can link up when next I am in Bim. I would have been there for about the third time this year if not for COVID.
    Our government is doing an excellent job with COVID far superior to what is transpiring here in the USA.
    I have already endorsed BOSS. Peace.

  4. William Skinner Avatar
    William Skinner

    @ Miller
    We live in a culture of political scape goating. It is a miracle that anybody wants to be a teacher, public servant, nurse or police in Barbados. Here is how it goes:
    Politicians carry their party favoritism into the Ministry Of Education. Mess it up: Blame teachers;
    They take it into Finance: Blame public servants;
    Into the Police force: Blame police
    Into the QEH: Blame the nurses.
    We can never put the blame where it is due because we must protect and defend our parties. That is the major damage that the country has had to endure.
    Even in death we try to blame our political enemies. Here is an example:
    Sometime ago , a regular caller to Brasstacks , committed suicide after losing his two sons by tragic circumstance. Peter Wickham was the host on the program. Callers were expressing sympathy because the man was a well liked and respected caller especially in matters of agriculture.
    Peter Wickham, could not even forget Stuart and the nonsense the DLP was doing that day.
    He brazenly told callers not to allow the doings of the Stuart administration to make them so depressed that they go and commit suicide.
    Now that man’s suicide cane from the grief of losing two sons and there was Peter Wickham trying his best to connect such a profound personal tragedy to the Stuart administration.
    That is the level of scape goating to which our beloved country has sunk.
    Is it a case of many hands make light work or too many cooks spoil the broth or too many chiefs and not enough Indians.
    Is it a case of a rolling stone gathers no moss or if you remain one place everybody will piss on you………
    You are correct . The civil service has been saving this country from going under despite the efforts to complete destroy and rape it by others.


  5. So let me get this straight. The government says it wants to take S122.5 million out of public sector workers pay over the next 18 months to fund capital projects and generate non-tourism economic activity. Two years ago, then President of the Barbados Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Eddy Abed, declared that the private sector had $8 billion in savings in the local banking system. 122.5 million is just over 1.5% of 8 billion. Explain to me again why a Special Covid 19 tax can’t be levied on those holding these huge savings but anywhere between 7-20 % of public sector workers pay can be diverted. Plus, who is going to be getting these public work contracts if not the same local elite? All the more reason to tax them in the first place.


  6. @Tee White

    Let us understand your suggestion right, you are promoting a tax on savings?


  7. @ David

    Let us understand your suggestion right, you are promoting a tax on savings?

    ############

    You can call it that if you like but presenting it in that way misses the point because I’m not calling for any tax on the savings of workers and other ordinary people. The fact that these business owners have so much loose cash sitting around, while workers, even before Covid 19, are mostly living from paycheck to paycheck or struggliing with unemployment and the government says it’s flat broke shows they are taking too much out of the economy. So a special Covid 19 tax on this excess money is just a way of taking back some of their excess share. The ironic thing is that the government plan seems to be to give it straight back to them.


  8. @Tee White

    Please tell us how government should filter the savings accounts to be taxed.

  9. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    What a tangled web we weave when……?


  10. Skinner the essetial point remains i am on the ground you are not.There is nothing to suggest any of the opposition parties have any chance of winning the forthcoming election in my view.As for being happy with Piece before tje last election let me make it clear to youPiece had little to do with the last results the ex government were extemely poor . In my view we had the worst PM AG and Finance Minister among others that resulted in their heavy defeat and i cannot see them returning in under ten years neither the mock party and no shite talk can change. that.This is about running a country not a bread shop and requires serious people going forward.


  11. @ Miller June 1, 2020 7:55 AM

    We can spin it any way we want. The Barbadian civil service has reached a size in relation to the total population and economic performance where it is no longer reformable and is massively obstructing the growth of the private sector.

    30, 40 years ago, the state sector was much smaller. That is long since history. Many studies prove the harmful influence of an oversized state apparatus. We do not have the Scandinavian work ethic to manage a large state sector. We do indeed need state service providers such as police officers, judges, garbage collectors, hospital nurses and the like, but not the many ministry officials, consultants and the like.

    As a historical notary, I would like to conclude by saying that this was not PM Stuart’s fault, nor that of our present Most Honourable Prime Minister. During his reign, OSA transformed the state sector from a service to the population to a job creation facility of last resort. OSA is also responsible for prohibiting wage cuts for civil servants. Against this background, I really cannot understand why some here call OSA a great economist. OSA may have acted like a Marxist economist, nothing more.

    In other words, the current government must now clean up the mess that OSA has left behind.


  12. @ Lorenzo June 1, 2020 1:18 PM
    “. In my view we had the worst PM AG and Finance Minister among others that resulted in their heavy defeat and i cannot see them returning in under ten years neither the mock party and no shite talk can change. that.This is about running a country not a bread shop and requires serious people going forward.”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Lorenz(a), your very nasty red slip is showing as you hang out your dirty linen to air!

    Is this the same “Finance Minister” who has been resurrected from the political dead and placed like a stiff in a chair as a key man of one of the Queen’s Economic Recovery committees?

    Isn’t that the Ace of Spades card of hypocrisy played by your Red Queen?

    Now what did the fired doc from the Central Bank do that was so unforgettably and unforgivably bad as to keep him still in political hell?

    Is there no room in the red Queen’s bosom for acceptance of any contriteness by Doc. Worrell even if he was to sing the praises of the ‘BOSS’?


  13. Miller you can talk as much shite as you like.I am not Ms Mottley and hence can call a spade a spade. Mr Sinckler, s record is there for all to see.Therefore i stand by what i said. Nothing to do with Ms Mottley, s decision which based on the damage he caused i do not agree with. I done with you and that.


  14. What manner of person can credibly believe that the PdP has a chance of saving more than one candidate’s deposit in 22/23 far less win a single seat far less ever become a potent force on the political landscape?

    What manner of person can look at the politics of 1989-1999 and decide that based on that the PdP is in any way capable of electoral success?

    What manner of person believes that Bishop Atherley or hypothetically Sen Franklyn can untie the political shoelaces of Richie Haynes, the best Prime Minister Barbados never had? Two gentlemen, one with just about an average electoral record and the other for all of his crusading few take notice of him and fewer take a considered positive view of.

    What manner of person believes the circumstances of the present time with a remarkably popular government is more amenable to third party politics than the 90s with an unpopular and embattled government?

    What manner of person is able to ignore, in commenting on the Civil Service, the reality that so many ministers and government policies have been felled at hands of the relished complex procedures of the Service both here and across the sea?

    What manner of person does not recognize that politics is occasionally unsavoury and that partisan politics is an unwavering feature of politics across space and time and not confined to Barbados, to recent history or to so called “black sell out leaders”?

    What manner of person ignores the harmful politicising effect of the 74 amendments?

    What manner of miscreant believes that sitting on a broad based advisory council is a “key position”? What manner of reprobate believes that there is hypocrisy in seeking broad-based opinions on the way forward? What manner of person allows themself to be so taken with such monstrous mischief as to wilfully attempt to decimate the truth?

    What manner of persons make up some parts of the BU commentariat?


  15. @ Lorenzo June 1, 2020 2:40 PM

    Are you getting punch-drunk? We certainly know you can never be Ms Mot(t)ley; only the horn extended from her rear to expel hot gases.

    But we can clearly see and acutely hear when a ‘foul’ of a man is down on the canvass in the pit for political yard birds.

    It’s time you raise your head, man and point it to the political sky of self-respect and learn to start calling a spade a spade and not a red queen.

    They are all members of the same political club and social friends and you are NOT one of them.

    Why don’t you take an enlightening listen to Classic’s calypso hit: ‘All Dem in Bed Together” while taking key note of Gabby’s: ‘All Dem and Bee politricians mekking mock sport at poor Lorenzo’.


  16. In here got in too many clowns.🎪🎪


  17. @Khaleel Kothdiwala June 1, 2020 3:07 PM

    What manner of hellion regularly labels others as political yard fowls yet then lambaste them and deride them when they express a view that disagrees with the party they usually support?

    What manner of wastrel believes that deflecting their own yard fowl status onto others changes reality in any way? What manner of wretch believe that they have been invested with the sole right to label commentators expressing their opinions as yard fowls when they themselves express only one view without fail? What manner of rapscallion believes that a person expressing views that occasionally support one political party or another makes them a “yard fowl”?

    What manner of circus clowns make up some parts of the BU commentariat?


  18. The relevant question is why do political supporters love to circle a mulberry bush?

    >


  19. Or why some live to contrive untruths to mislead in order to achieve their narrow destructive ends.


  20. @ David

    Please tell us how government should filter the savings accounts to be taxed.
    #######

    There are a number of countries in the world which have functioning wealth taxes. Individuals have their net wealth assessed, including their savings, and those above a certain threshold have the wealth tax applied to them. There exists no practical reason why the government of Barbados couldn’t raise its $122.5 million through this route. There does, however, seem to be a political reason. Namely that touching the island’s 1 percenters is out of bounds. They can’t be asked to put one red cent on the table but public sector workers can be asked to give up immediate access to up to 20% of their monthly salary. At least one positive thing now is that the workers will have a choice and are not going to be part of the ‘forced savings’ regime. We shall see what they say to the government’s suggestion.


  21. (Quote):
    Or why some live to contrive untruths to mislead in order to achieve their narrow destructive ends. (Unquote).
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Sounds just like the kind of line which can be found in the politrician’s playbook always carried in that red bag.

    Yes, that politrician’s Pandora’s box always guarded by Prometheus in the form of the ghost called Abijah!


  22. June 1, 2020 3:49 PM
    “Yes, that politrician’s Pandora’s box always guarded by Prometheus in the form of the ghost called Abijah!”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I felt that when the Prime Minister was in Opposition she ought not to have spoken so definitively to the matter of young Abijah Holder as she did. The circumstances were terrible but she made certain overtures that were obviously impossible to keep and therefore it ought not to have been done. But that’s gone now and can’t be undone.

    However the attempt of some to prolong the agony of that family in the present day and use a deceased young person as a pawn for the DtM agenda truly is not only distasteful but also repugnant.


  23. Preach that sermon of morality to the ghost’s mother who has been charged for her own child’s slaughter.

    And what is the status of the person responsible for contributing to that beastly act of gross negligence and disrespect for the Laws of the land while driving around in a duty-free merc along the same roadway?


  24. What is the status of the case? Is it still languishing in the Court?


  25. @ David June 1, 2020 4:24 PM

    All that can said is that the man who “accidentally’ shot his son to death while cleaning his gun did not have to wait that long to have his day in the Two Barbadoes’s court.

    But Karma and her sword of Justice move in most mysterious ways.

  26. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    @WS
    What is “pure” white rum? A shot (snap?), I thought you only dealt in Bishop’s?


  27. @ Enuff June 1, 2020 3:16 PM
    “In here got in too many clowns.”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Just couldn’t allow that invisible one to pass like a ghost at night in a cemetery for the political yard-fowls.

    We are really so proud of you- the true political vampire on BU- to see that you are able to see yourself in the mirror of reality.

    BTW, how are those ‘daily’ meetings coming along in NYC with you vicariously sitting in the chair singing in the red PR choir?

    Oh, how we miss your nemesis the “Bush Tea”!


  28. @6:34
    Sir William Skinner

    What a cheap trick!
    So it must be your estimation that Pachamama as a single individual could reorder the world.
    That Pachamama as moniker must have the type of confused orientation which has been long supported by you.
    That Pachamama as a single planet could usher in this new age.
    That this writer who tries to be observant of Her behavious is the Pachamama
    We have long estimated that you have something else to say.
    Suppose Grandma was posting here, as a media institution would that kind of thinking be so conjured.
    There”s no need to hedge


  29. @ Miller,
    ” I felt that when the Prime Minister was in Opposition she ought not to have spoken so definitively to the matter of young Abijah Holder as she did. The circumstances were terrible but she made certain overtures that were obviously impossible to keep and therefore it ought not to have been done.”

    At least one BLP supporter has the testicular fortitude to definitively criticize the Prime Minister of Barbados. lol


  30. @ Hants June 1, 2020 5:46 PM

    Occasionally, it requires the sheer innocence of a politically partisan child to expose the deceit and hypocrisy of his elders seasoned in the double-dealing art of subterfuge and chicanery.

    “Look mummy and daddy from the Muslim mosque, the red Empress has no clothes on! She simply a red witch in white, right Daddy!”

  31. William Skinner Avatar
    William Skinner

    “NorthernObserver June 1, 2020 4:55 PM

    @WS
    What is “pure” white rum? A shot (snap?), I thought you only dealt in Bishop’s?“

    It’s a Bishop alright! Lol
    By pure white I mean not contaminated by any chasers. Good

  32. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    @ws
    Ah-ha. Pure = straight. The true definition of intestinal fortitude. In St.John, a bishop is 4oz, apparently reduced from 5oz (gill) in former times.


  33. @Comrades Skinner/NO, as one who hit quite a few back in the day I enjoyed that exchange about snaps and bishops of white rum. Don’t know if you two remember the days when a guy would stop by a shop window and down a snap of white while still sitting on his bicycle, before going home to have his lunch (which the lady in the house would have on the table if she knew what was good for her) – lol.

  34. Piece the Prophet Avatar
    Piece the Prophet

    @ Mr William Skinner

    Thank you for your kind remarks.

    De ole man does love my country and I abhor those men and women who plant to do it harm.

    There is much that you have said that de ole man will revert to presently.

    But before I do I must remark on the immediate comment you elicited from the Honourable Blogmaster

    He said and I quote

    “… David June 1, 2020 6:31 AM

    @William

    1.You asked for sensible intelligent debate. How can you ask for Caswell to be made leader of PDP if he is on record not interested in elective politics?…”

    It would seem that, in the limited reasoning of one the Honourable Blogmaster Borg that the Senator Caswell Franklyn is not within the same “elective Politics” which he formerly was known to have shunned.

    But it is interesting how rapidly he shot off this response like if he, the Honourable Blogmaster, is also the Public Relations officer of Senator Caswell Franklyn

    “2.Also a unionist will not command the support required from the dark shadows who finance political campaigns…”

    Have you ever heard such unabridged, undiluted hobby?

    This statement by the Honourable Blogmaster falls into the same strain of Pornville Inniss who sought to argue that Bajan Politicians are corrupt so his teifing was excusable.

    Look what the clown said

    “…Also a unionist will not command the support required from the dark shadows who finance political campaigns…”

    The Dark Shadows who Finance political Campaigns LIKE THE DARK SHADOWS WHO FINANCED HIS BOSS MUGABE’S CAMPAIGN AND WHO SHE INVITED TO THE OPENING, OF PARLIAMENT!

    say he did not print dat Mr. Skinner?

    That is on his record forever!

    He George Linnaeus Banks has shown who he respects, not law biding citizens but these dark forces.

    But he ent dun there, looks what he gone and say

    3.”…Btw the DLP lost the government rather than the BLP winning. A large number of the DLP base also stayed at home last election…”

    So every wee he comes and pretends that he dissatisfied with the DUOPOLY but here he is proudly declaring that there is no hope for the PdP cause the DlP voters “stan home…”

    Any with that comment he has shown to ALL BU READERS where his loyalties lie.

    Well done Mr Skinner YOU PULLED HIM OUT HIS HOLE!!!


  35. IMF Executive Board concludes the third review under the IMF’s Extended Arrangement under the Extended Fund Facility for Barbados
    June 3, 2020

    The Executive Board of IMF concluded the third review of the IMF’s extended arrangement under the Extended Fund Facility (EFF) for Barbados. The completion of the review allows the authorities to draw about US$139 million.
    Program implementation is strong, with all performance criteria for end-March met.
    The economy faces a major challenge owing to the global coronavirus pandemic. Access under the extended arrangement has been augmented by about US$91 million (70 percent of Barbados’ quota in the IMF) to help accommodate the shock.
    Since May 2018, international reserves have increased
    The Executive Board of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) concluded the third review of the IMF’s extended arrangement under the Extended Fund Facility (EFF) for Barbados. The completion of the review allows the authorities to draw the equivalent of SDR 101 million (about US$139 million), bringing total disbursements to the equivalent of SDR 206 million (about US$283 million).

    The four-year extended arrangement under the EFF was approved on October 1, 2018 (see Press Release No. 18/370). Including the augmentation approved by the Executive Board today, the extended arrangement is for an amount equivalent of SDR 274 million (about US$377 million).

    Barbados continues its strong implementation of the comprehensive Economic Recovery and Transformation (BERT) plan aimed at restoring fiscal and debt sustainability and increasing reserves and growth. The ongoing global coronavirus pandemic poses a major challenge for the economy, which is heavily dependent on tourism, and is expected to have a large impact on the balance of payments and the fiscal accounts.

    Following the Executive Board discussion, Mr. Tao Zhang, Deputy Managing Director and Acting Chair said:

    “Barbados continues to make good progress in implementing its comprehensive Economic Recovery and Transformation plan, with all performance criteria for end-March 2020 met. Prospects for continued strong program performance are good.

    “The policy response to the global coronavirus pandemic is adequate with a reduced primary surplus target of 1 percent of GDP for fiscal year 2020/21 to accommodate significant revenue losses and support spending on public health and social protection. The reduction of the primary surplus is financed by additional resources from international financial institutions, including an augmentation of the IMF’s extended facility.

    “The accommodation in fiscal year 2020/21 will be compensated by higher primary surpluses in the medium term to ensure that the debt target of 60 percent of GDP in fiscal year 2033/34 is reached.

    “State-owned enterprise (SOE) reform remains an essential element of Barbados’ economic program. To secure fiscal space for investment in physical and human capital, transfers to SOEs need to decline after the global coronavirus pandemic with a combination of stronger oversight of SOEs, cost reduction, revenue enhancement, and mergers and divestment.

    “Progress in restoring fiscal sustainability must be safeguarded by adopting a new central bank law that limits its financing of the Government to short-term advances and strengthens the central bank’s mandate, autonomy, and decision-making structures. Addressing the identified deficiencies in the AML/CFT framework is important going forward.

    “A strong recovery after the global pandemic will depend on accelerating structural reforms. There is much room for improvement in the business climate. Establishing a credit registry and credit collateral registry, in addition to broadening the types of eligible collateral, would facilitate access to credit. In addition, priority should also given to improving resilience to natural disasters and climate change.”

    IMF Communications Department
    MEDIA RELATIONS

    PRESS OFFICER: RANDA ELNAGAR

    PHONE: +1 202 623-7100EMAIL: MEDIA@IMF.ORG

    @IMFSpokesperson


  36. Quite good, so far

  37. William Skinner Avatar
    William Skinner

    Bajan in NY/ NO
    I certainly do remember! Also if you feel a little cold coming on , you go straight to the shop keeper and she pulls one from under de counter. And just so the cold gone .
    It was not uncommon to hear a fellow say : “gimme a Bishop”and then there was “ choking de Bishop” first cousin of Ms. Palmer lol
    Then there was that bottle of rum high up on the unused shelf , catching cob web from the roof. It never came down.
    Yes gentlemen , authentic rum shop culture.
    Memories………………


  38. The Chinese IMF report is quite clear:

    “To secure fiscal space for investment in physical and human capital, transfers to SOEs need to decline after the global coronavirus pandemic with a combination of stronger oversight of SOEs, cost reduction, revenue enhancement, and mergers and divestment.”

    ““A strong recovery after the global pandemic will depend on accelerating structural reforms.”

    It would be really good if our leader dismissed Greendidge.


  39. There are credible reports that some private employers are deducting five per cent of employees wages. If so, who authorised this deduction? Can Workers opt out?
    It shows what can happen when one employer (government) imposes an unfair condition on its employees. What is the money deducted by private employers being used for? Is this an issue that should be debated?

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