est. 2007

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Monday Sermon – Counting The Cost

Sometimes Jesus taught His disciples, by contrasting His commandments with those taught by Moses.  Hear Jesus. “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’  But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his…

grenville-phillips
Submitted by Grenville Phillips II,

Sometimes Jesus taught His disciples, by contrasting His commandments with those taught by Moses.  Hear Jesus.

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’  But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.  (Matthew 5:27-28)

Jesus set the standard of adultery for his followers as purposeful lust.  He then continued.

“If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.”  (Matthew 5:29-30)

This information can help us to count the cost of following Jesus.  Are we ready to surrender all and follow?  Hear Jesus on counting the cost.

For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it— lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’?  Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand?  Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace.  So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”  (Luke 14:28-33)

Letting go of your way, and pursuing God’s way, is a very wise decision.

Grenville Phillips II is a Chartered Structural Engineer.  He can be reached at NextParty246@gmail.com

82 responses to “Monday Sermon – Counting The Cost”

  1. GP Avatar
    GP

    I TAUGHT IN A BIBLE CONFERENCE IN 1982 AND GAVE A TEN POINT OUTLINE ON THE DOCTRINE OF THE SECOND COMING

    IN 1993, I MET AN ELECTRICIAN ON A BUILDING SITE WHO WAS ABLE TO RECALL THE SERMON OUTLINE VERBATIM

    IT SEEMS THAT MY TEACHING WAS VERY VERY COMPLEX THAT HE WAS ABLE TO DO THAT CONCERNING HOW COMPLEX THAT DOCTRINE IS

  2. GP Avatar
    GP

    GRENVILLE
    LET ME SEE WHAT I CAN GET INTO YOUR FRONTAL BOSSED HEAD

    IF I WANTED TO TEACH ON ADULTERY I WOULD SEARCH MY CONCORDANCE OR JUST GO ON LINE AND COLLECT VERSES ON ADULTERY AS LISTED BELOW

    I WOULD THEN GROUP THEM ACCORDING TO IF JESUS SAID THEM OR IF THEY WERE OT COMMANDS ETC

    THEN I WOULD SEEK TO RIGHTLY DIVIDE THEM IN THIER CONTEXTS
    THUS I WOULD TEACH SIMPLY ON THEM

    THIS IS HOW PROPER BIBLE TEACHERS DO IT ALL OVER THE WORLD
    NOTE THERE IS NOTHING COMPLEX THERE

    I HAVE HEARD UNEDUCATED MEN DO THIS — MEN MUCH LESS UNEDUCATED THAN YOU
    SIMPLE MEN WHO HAVE NOT PUBLISHED ANY BOOKS ABOUT RELIGIOUS MATTERS

    Bible Verses about Adultery
    Matthew 5:32
    Verse Concepts
    but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
    Matthew 19:9
    “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
    Luke 16:18
    “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.
    Matthew 5:31-32
    “It was said, ‘WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE’; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
    Hebrews 13:4
    Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
    John 8:1-11
    But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court,
    1 Corinthians 7:11
    (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife.
    Mark 10:11-12
    And He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.”
    Jeremiah 3:8
    “And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away and given her a writ of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear; but she went and was a harlot also.
    Romans 7:2-3
    For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
    Exodus 20:14
    “You shall not commit adultery.
    Mark 10:12
    and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.”
    Matthew 5:27
    “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’;
    Proverbs 6:32
    The one who commits adultery with a woman is lacking sense; He who would destroy himself does it.
    Matthew 5:27-30
    “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. “If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.read more.
    Leviticus 20:10
    ‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
    1 Corinthians 6:9
    Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
    Revelation 21:8
    “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
    Malachi 2:14-16
    “Yet you say, ‘For what reason?’ Because the LORD has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. “But not one has done so who has a remnant of the Spirit And what did that one do while he was seeking a godly offspring? Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against the wife of your youth. “For I hate divorce,” says the LORD, the God of Israel, “and him who covers his garment with wrong,” says the LORD of hosts. “So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.”

  3. GP Avatar
    GP

    GRENVILLE THE WOULD BE PREACHER

    HERE IS AN OUTLINE ON A WELL KNOWN STORY IN JOHN 6
    SEE IF YOU CAN DEVELOP IT

    Christ uses inadequate people who surrender what they have to Him to meet the overwhelming needs of others.
    Note four main lessons:
    1. People are needy.

    The Lord’s people are inadequate in themselves to meet people’s needs.
    Jesus Christ is all-sufficient to meet people’s overwhelming needs.
    A. CHRIST IS IN CONTROL OF EVERY SITUATION.
    B. CHRIST IS MORE CONCERNED FOR NEEDY PEOPLE THAN WE ARE.
    C. CHRIST IS NOT LIMITED BY OUR INADEQUATE RESOURCES.
    D. CHRIST DOESN’T JUST BARELY MEET NEEDS; HE ABUNDANTLY SUPPLIES ALL THAT WE WANT.
    E. CHRIST IS SUFFICIENT NOT ONLY FOR PHYSICAL NEEDS, BUT ESPECIALLY FOR SPIRITUAL NEEDS.
    Christ meets the needs of people through His inadequate people who yield their inadequate resources to Him.
    Briefly, here are four ways that Christ meets needs:

    A. CHRIST USES PEOPLE TO MEET THE NEEDS OF PEOPLE.
    B. CHRIST USES INADEQUATE PEOPLE TO MEET THE NEEDS OF PEOPLE.
    C. CHRIST USES INADEQUATE PEOPLE WHO YIELD THEIR INADEQUATE RESOURCES TO HIM.
    D. WHEN CHRIST USES US TO SERVE HIM TO MEET THE NEEDS OF OTHERS, HE ALWAYS PROVIDES A BASKETFUL OF LEFTOVERS FOR YOUR NEEDS.
    Remember, the bread is a picture of Christ. When we yield to Him our inadequate abilities and gifts to use as He pleases, He will satisfy us with a full measure of Himself. We’ll have food to eat that others know nothing about (John 4:32).

    E. CHRIST IS SUFFICIENT NOT ONLY FOR PHYSICAL NEEDS, BUT ESPECIALLY FOR SPIRITUAL NEEDS.
    This isn’t just a story about feeding hungry stomachs. This is about the spiritual satisfaction that Jesus brings to all who feed on Him as the bread of life. As He says (John 6:35), “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.” As Paul put it (Eph. 1:3), God “has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.” Are you satisfied with Jesus as your living Bread?

  4. GP Avatar
    GP

    GRENVILLE
    You said :
    Perhaps a complex dissection of the message should be reserved for similarly educations persons, while the simple whole message can be given to the public.

    Let me show you from John 3 and John 4 that you are stuck in the mud of very deep ignorance of the Word

    Note the comparison of the interchange between Jesus and the woman at the well and a similar interchange that occurs between Jesus and Nicodemus in chapter 3.

    There is a significant difference, The more Jesus tells Nicodemus about Himself and His teaching, the more uneasy Nicodemus becomes. His questions and comments become shorter and shorter, until he simply disappears from the text.AND HE WAS EDUCATED AND A LEADER IN JEWRY

    The conversation with the Samaritan woman is quite different. SHE WAS MORE THAN SIMPLE but each interchange brings her closer to faith.

    The conversation moves from literal drinking water to the spiritual “water” of salvation. Her grasp of who Jesus is continues to grow, until she eventually trusts in Him as the Messiah.

    While Nicodemus comes to faith very slowly and somewhat reluctantly, the woman at the well seems to much more quickly grasp the issues and trust in Jesus as the Messiah.

    While Nicodemus, an influential leader among the Jews, brings no one to Christ, the woman at the well brings the whole town out to hear Jesus, and eventually to trust in Him.

    YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE EDUCATED AND EVEN PUBLISHED BOOKS RIGHT?

    I HAVE MET SEVERAL POOR UNEDUCATED FOLK WHO CAN GIVE A BETTER BIBLE LESSON THAN YOU WILL EVER GIVE

  5. GP Avatar
    GP

    GRENVILLE MA BWOY HERE IS ANOTHER NUGGET FOR YOU

    wHEN WE CONSIDER THESE ACCOUNTS IN JOHN 3 & JOHN 4 WE THINK OF THE TEACHING IN HEBREWS 7:25 WHICH TEACHES THAT JESUS “is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.”

    MANY HAVE SAID THAT HE SAVES FROM THE GUTTER-most TO THE UTTER-most

    NICODEMUS WAS AN EXAMPLE OF THE UTTERMOST. HE WAS A MEMBER OF THE SANHEDREN – THE 70 MEN WHO WERE THE JEWISH LEADERS

    THE WOMAN AT THE WELL WAS AN EXAMPLE OF THE GUTTER-most .
    JESUS GAVE HER AN EXAMPLE TO CONFESS HER SIN
    HE SAID GO AND CALL YOUR HUSBAND

    SHE WAS DIVORCED 5 TIMES AND WAS EVEN THEN LIVING WITH A MAN TO WHOM SHE WAS NOT MARRIED

    IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT ADULTERY HERE IS AN EXAMPLE

  6. nextparty246 Avatar
    nextparty246

    Dear Readers:

    You have now seen the two traditions – in conflict.

    You should follow Jesus’ simple instruction – which He has clearly defined. You may also read every verse in the Bible that mentions adultery, and read the Hebrew and Greek translations. But after all of that, you should still follow Jesus’ simple instruction.

    I wish you well.

  7. GP Avatar
    GP

    NO CONFLICT SIR
    AND THERE ARE NO TWO TRADITIONS

    YOU ARE EITHER BIBLE TEACHER OR YOU ARE NOT———YOU ARE NOT
    YOU ARE EITHER A BIBLE EXPOSITOR OR YOU ARE NOT———YOU ARE NOT

    YOU ARE EITHER A BIBLE ILLITERATE AND BRIMBLER AS YOU CLEARLY ARE, BUT YOU HAVE THE GALL TO CALL ME AN APOSTATE AND A FALSE TEACHER—– WHICH I NOT

    IF YOU WANT TO TEACH ABOUT ADULTERY PROPERLY, THE PROPER OR IDEAL WAY IS TO INDEED read every verse in the Bible that mentions adultery, and read the Hebrew and Greek translations.

    THAT IS HOW IT IS DONE BY ALL SANE SOLID SENSIBLE STUDENTS AND SCHOLARS IN THE SCRIPTURES ———YOU ARE NOT

    NOW GO STAND ON THE BENCH OR SIT FACING THE CORNER OR FACING THE MIRROR

  8. Freedom Crier Avatar
    Freedom Crier

    THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF GEORGIE PUDDINGS TEACHING VERSUS WHEN GRENVILLE PHILLIPS SHARES THE WORD!

    GEORGIE PUDDING WANTS TO GIVE ALL THE ANSWERS UP FRONT SHOWING HOW KNOWLEDGEABLE HE IS WHILE NEVER LEADING ANYONE ANYWHERE IN THEIR UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE BY THE TIME HE OPENS HIS MOUTH THOSE ATTENDING KNOW IT’S TIME TO SLEEP!

    WHICH ONE WOULD YOU BE INCLINED TO LISTEN TOO?

    https://x78251kcpll2l2t9e46kf96a-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Covered-It-1024×1024.png

    “Then said a teacher, speak to us of teaching. And he said:
    The teacher who walks in the shadow of the temple among his followers gives not of his wisdom but rather of his faith and his lovingness.
    The astronomer may speak to you of his understanding of space, but he cannot give you his understanding.
    The musician may sing to you of the rhythm which is in all space, but he cannot give you the ear which arrests the rhythm nor the voice that echoes it.
    And he who is versed in the science of numbers can tell of the regions of weight and measure, but he cannot conduct you thither.
    For the vision of one man lends not its wings to another man.” Khalil Gibran

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/da/92/a4/da92a45a2246c40eb640d3702046a7fc.jpg

  9. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    Verily, verily, I say unto thee,

    “If this is an example of Grenville Phillip’s best, I quake at the thought of his worst. Imagine a prime minister who presents in such a slap dash, hodgepodge, willy nilly, disjointed manner.

    But wuhlaus! The man is an engineer! Anybody know any projects he worked on?

    And still some ask why we should bother about Grenville’s capabilities? Why should we not just accept that the man, though he be incompetent, is doing his best?

    I’ll tell you why – his sloppiness here (and make no mistake, he is very sloppy here) could mean that he is sloppy elsewhere!

    These displays of oblivious inadequacy are not only embarrassing in one who wishes to become prime minister and is at this moment an engineer – they are frightening!

    GP,

    How about another ‘v’ word?

    VILE VIBRANT VOCIFEROUS VOLUMINOUS VIOLENT VITUPERATIVE VERBOSITY

  10. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    GP,

    When Grenville posts his skeletal sermons why not just quickly flesh it out so somebody can at least learn something. Make it lean meat though, or they will not take the time to digest it. Add some connective tissue and disconnect the bones he has joined in error.

    Let’s try it without the favourful fat (funny though it is) and see if the critics will understand where he is going wrong and why it frustrates those of us who know better.

    PS. I suspect that the Sunday Sermons take too much time for the average person to read and digest. We are not all as diligent as you are in Bible study.

  11. GP Avatar
    GP

    THANK YOU DONNA

    “VERBOSITY ”

    INDEED!

    NOW YOU ARE A MOTHER WITH A SON
    NO DOUBT YOU HAVE TRIED TO TEACH HIM SOME MORALS OR ABOUT GOD EVEN WHEN HE WAS VERY VERY SMALL ACCORDING TO OUR BAJAN TRADITIONS

    MAYBE YOU SOUGHT TO SHARE WITH HIM THE POPULAR PSALM 23

    DID YOU JUST READ THE PSALM AND TELL HIM GO OUT IN THE BACK YARD AND PLAY OR DID YOU GIVE HIM SOME SORT OF COMFORTING EXPLANATION THAT EXUDES FROM THE TEXT SOME THING THAT HE CAN REFLECT ON AT ANY PERIOD OF HIS LIFE, ANYWHERE HE GOES, AND AT TIMES WHEN YOU ARE NOT AROUND WHEN HE IS EXPERIENCING SOME DISAPOINTMENT OR ADVERSITY?

    MAYBE YOU READ PHILIPPIANS 4:4-9 TO HIM

    4Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.

    5Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

    6Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

    7And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

    8Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

    9Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

    PERHAPS YOU STARTED BY SINGING TO HIM IN YOUR EXPLANATION THE DITTY “DONT WORRY BE HAPPY”
    OR MAYBE YOU SAID DONT WORRY SON JUST ALWAYS PRAY

    WOULD YOU JUST READ VERSE 8 TO HIM? OR WOULD YOU HAVE TRIED TO TEACH HIM HOW AND WHY HE SHOULD BE TRUE OR SINCERE AND TELL THE TRUTH
    WOULD YOU NOT HAVE NEEDED TO EXPLAIN TO HIM WHAT HONESTY JUSTICE PURITY AND HAVING A GOOD REPORT MEANT?

    WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN COMPLEX IN SEEKING TO DO SO?

  12. GP Avatar
    GP

    DONNA

    RE,

    When Grenville posts his skeletal sermons why not just quickly flesh it out so somebody can at least learn something. Make it lean meat though, or they will not take the time to digest it. Add some connective tissue and disconnect the bones he has joined in error.

    I DONT THINK THAT THE BU CREW IS INTERESTED IN SPIRITUAL MATTERS OR BIBLE STUDY

    I HAVE TRIED TO FLESH OUT HIS OPENING STATEMENT THIS WEEK. I WAS THEN ACCUSED OF ENVY BY TWO IDIOTS, AND OF BEING A CHILD BY ANOTHER. WHEN ONE READER EXPRESSED THE VIEW THAT HE HAD LEARNED SOMETHING DPD SOUGHT TO BRING HIM TO HEEL

    Let’s try it without the favourful fat (funny though it is) CANT HELP IT I LOVE TO BE FUNNY OR TRY TO BE……..RUNS IN THE FAMILY

    and see if the critics will understand where he is going wrong and why it frustrates those of us who know better. I DONT THINK THAT THE BU CREW IS INTERESTED IN SPIRITUAL MATTERS OR BIBLE STUDY. THEY HAVE NOT FROM THE EARLY DAYS WITH ZOE AND DICTIONARY WHO WERE BRILLIANT EXPOSITORS

    PS. I suspect that the Sunday Sermons take too much time for the average person to read and digest. We are not all as diligent as you are in Bible study.
    THEY ARE LONGER POSTS ON BU THAN MY NOTES ON SUNDAYS
    IF THEY WANT TO READ AND DIGEST THEM THEY WOULD. IF NOT, NO PROBLEM,

    I KNOW THAT THE SPIRIT WILL LEAD PERSONS TO GLEAN THEREFROM IN HIS TIME.

    THOSE WHO READ A FEW LINES HAVE TENDED TO TALK RUBBISH
    I HAVE LEARNED NOT TO RESPOND

    WATCH NOW AND YOU WILL HEAR THEM COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK IN RESPONSE TO YOUR POST AND MY RESPONSE

  13. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    I followed the same format that you do but I didn’t give all the Biblical examples at the same time or he would not have remembered any of them. When he was younger I chose the best illustration only. As he matured I used more of them. I stuck posters on his bedroom door to remind him.

    PS. To be clear, when I said we should try it without the flavourful fat, I meant the funny comments not the Biblical references. A few of those are necessary and should be easily digestible for adults. But just a few. Not all.

  14. GP Avatar
    GP

    RE I followed the same format that you do but I didn’t give all the Biblical examples at the same time or he would not have remembered any of them

    YOU THUS FOLLOWED THE BIBLICAL INJUNCTION “PRECEPT UPON PRECEPT LINE UPON LINE”
    YOU MAY THINK THAT HE WOULD NOT REMEMBER OR UNDERSTAND, BUT SUCH FERTILE MINDS UNDERSTAND AND RETAIN MUCH MORE THAN YOU CAN THINK

    RE When he was younger I chose the best illustration only. As he matured I used more of them. I stuck posters on his bedroom door to remind him.

    AGAIN YOU WENT “PRECEPT UPON PRECEPT LINE UPON LINE” AS YOU SOUGHT TO OBEY DEUT 6:6-7 AND YOU EVEN USED ILLUSTRATIONS. YOU ARE A GOOD TEACHER AND BIBLE TEACHER

    I WILL PROMISE YOU FROM MY EXPERIENCE, THAT YOU ARE YET TO LEARN FULLY WHAT HE GRASPED FROM YOUR EFFORTS

    I UNDERSTAND FULLY WHAT YOU MEAN BY flavourful fat BUT GRENVILLE HAS TO BE PUT IN HIS PLACE

  15. Piece the Legend Avatar
    Piece the Legend

    @ Donna

    No one here on Barbados Underground has ever said it better when describing the Bedroom Policeman aka Grenville Phillips

    You said and I quote

    “…Verily, verily, I say unto thee,

    “If this is an example of Grenville Phillip’s best, I quake at the thought of his worst.

    Imagine a prime minister who presents in such a slap dash, hodgepodge, willy nilly, disjointed manner…”

    When de ole man Divine this about Grenville years ago AND SHARED IT, I believe that I was cussed black is blue by nuff people here!

    After a while, A FEW saw what i had been saying, GRENVILLE PHILLIPS AKA BEDROOM POLICEMAN IS A CLOWN!

    I understand how difficult it is for people to accept that A MAN WITH A POLITICAL PARTY CALLED SOLUTIONS BARBADOS would be the antipode of Solutions – DISASTER BARBADOS.

    There is a new version of LOST IN SPACE WITH A ROBOT THAT ONLY KNOWS FIVE WORDS!

    (2 WORDS MORE THAN GRENVILLE KNOWS)

    And the Robot says

    “DANGER WILL ROBINSON!”

    de ole man been saying, to bajans, in a zillion different ways

    “DANGER, GRENVILLE PHILLIPS- DUFUS”

    And finally the readers are waking up!

    Dis man ingrunt fun days!

    But you should know that something wrong when, the BU BORG that does close down blogs when you say things bout dem golden boy, CAN BE PROMOTING HIM SO THAT HE WILL CUT THIRD PARTY VOTES, in 2021’s General Elections

  16. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    GP,,

    I am an Anglican and therefore like Simple Simon, would not be considered a real real Christian because we are more open-minded about the world’s religions and do not take all of the Bible literally or follow it slavishly and we are willing to adjust to a new context or evolve as we come to a new understanding of who God really is. I can see Miller’s point about exploring our African roots whilst still holding fast to the simple gems for living that Jesus the Jew so eloquently espoused. These gems would lead to a better world whether Jesus actually existed or whether He is the Son of God or not. I believe most of us here are actually crying out for the very same world that following Jesus’ wisdom would create.

    I think that most people here were raised on a little bit o’ Bible and would like to make sense of what they have absorbed. But only in bite-sized portions.

    In this case i think that a little would go a long way.

  17. Piece the Legend Avatar
    Piece the Legend

    @ the Honourable Blogmaster your assistance please

  18. Freedom Crier Avatar
    Freedom Crier

    RE GP January 22, 2020 10:41 AM ! “I UNDERSTAND FULLY WHAT YOU MEAN BY flavourful fat BUT GRENVILLE HAS TO BE PUT IN HIS PLACE”

    THAT’S YOUR WHOLE OBJECTIVE, YOU WANT TO CRUSH OTHERS WHO HAVE DIFFERING METHODS OF TEACHING AND UNDERSTANDING YOU…YOU WOULD DO WELL IF YA LISTENED TO DONNA’S COUNCIL PERTAINING TO YOUR LONG-WINDED PHARISEE DIALOGUES…BUT NOT YOU

    YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER SELF-RIGHTEOUS, HYPOCRITICAL, OR SANCTIMONIOUS PODGINESS!

    https://pics.me.me/the-teacher-who-is-indeed-wise-does-not-bid-you-26104069.png

  19. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    By the way, GP, there is more than on way to skin a cat and there is more than one way to put somebody in his place.

    Viv Richards did not tell the bowler he could not bowl, he just let his bat do the talking. The bowler then knew that his place was on the boundary, licking his wounds and not at the end of a run up.

    How ya like da cricket analogy? Think I could teach Grenville something there? But the best one was the roadrunner/ Trump one. That did make me laugh despite my misgivings. Gotta give John that one.

  20. GP Avatar
    GP

    DONNA
    I GREW UP LIKE MOST OF MY GENERATION AS AN ANGLICAN UNTIL I WAS 16
    I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT ANGLICANS BELIEVED WHAT WAS READ IN CHURCH FROM THE BIBLE– I CERTAINLY DID
    ON REFLECTION I THINK THAT THE ANGLICAN CHURCH FAILS TODAY BY FAILURE TO TEACH THE WORD INSTEAD OF GIVING HOMILIES
    THE CHURCH DOES NOT TEACH ITS MEMBERS HOW TO STUDY THE BIBLE FOR THEMSELVES

    THE STRONG POINT ABOUT THE ANGLICAN CHURCH IN MY VIEW IS THE SYSTEMATIC SEASONAL SINGING OF ITS HYMNS, WHICH CONTAIN SERIOUS BIBLICAL TEACHING IN THE LYRICS (EXCEPT FOR TWO PARTICULAR ONES) THAT REFLECT THAT IN THE PAST THAT ANGLICAN PRIESTS/PASTORS KNEW AND UNDERSTOOD THE WORD.

    AFTER 50 YEARS I HAVE NOT GIVEN UP MY ANGLICAN ROOTS IN TERMS OF THE HYMNS IL LEARNED AND SUNG AT SUNDAY SCHOOL, IN SCHOOL AND IN CHURCHES. THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HEARING A PSALM PROPERLY POINTED, AND WITH THE KEY WORDS STRESSED. THERE IS NO MUSIC FOR ME LIKE THE ANTHEMS AND ORATORIOS WE SANG.

    I REMEMBER WHEN GOOD FRIDAY WAS NOT GOOD FRIDAY WITHOUT ATTENDING OR PARTICIPATING IN A PERFORMANCE OF STAINER’S CRUCIFIXION OR MAUNDER’S OLIVET TO CALVARY

    FYI THERE IS STILL AN EVANGELICAL WING OF THE ANGLICAN CHURCH THOUGH SMALL

    IN THE EARLY 60’S THEY SENT ONE FROM THAT GROUP TO BARBADOS CALLED HAROLD INGAMELLS. HE WAS A CURATE AT THE CATHEDRAL.

    A I JOHNSON INVITED HIM TO CH CH CH ONE LENT. I REALIZED NOW THAT HE WAS REALLY TEACHING THE GOSPEL LIKE AN EVANGELICAL

    IN 1970 I PAID TEN CENTS FOR A MIMEOGRAPHED SET OF NOTES ON METHODS OF BIBLE STUDY.
    I HAVE FOLLOWED THESE PRINCIPLES SINCE. AND I HAVE BOUGHT AND READ BOOKS AND COMMENTARIES OVER THE YEARS BY MEN WHO FOLLOW THE SAME METHODS. I HAVE GLEANED MUCH PLEASURE BY DOING SO AND HAVE LEARNED A LOT THEREBY.

    IN MY ASSEMBLY WE HAVE A CHRISTOCENTRIC MEETING EVERY SUNDAY MORNING (A COMMUNION SERVICE) AND AFTER A FELLOWSHIP COFFEE BREAK WE HAVE A BIBLIOCENTRIC MEETING

    FOR SIX YEARS I ATTENDED A BAPTIST CHURCH BACK HOME AS A TEEN
    WE TRAVERSED THE OT IN SUNDAY SCHOOL UP TO NEHEMIAH/EZRA BY THE TIME I LEFT TO ATTEND MED SCHOOL

    THIS GAVE ME A GOOD BACKGROUND UNDERSTANDING OF THE OT
    (MORE ON THIS LATER PERHAPS)

    THIS WAS UNLIKE M,Y EXPERIENCE IN THE ANGLICAN CHURCH WHERE IN SUNDAY SCHOOL WE MEMORIZED THE COLLECTS AND DISCUSSED MAYBE THE GOSPEL OR PASSAGE FROM THE EPISTLES SET FOR THE DAY.
    BUT EVEN SO, THERE WAS NOT A SYSTEMATIC APPROACH TO TEACHING THE WHOLE NT, AND RELATING SUCH TEACHING TO THE RELEVANT OT PASSAGES

  21. GP Avatar
    GP

    DONNA
    RE How ya like da cricket analogy? YES
    Think I could teach Grenville something there? MOST CERTAINLY

    But the best one was the roadrunner/ Trump one. That did make me laugh despite my misgivings. Gotta give John that one. AGREED. THE DEMS DO SEEM TO HAVE A ROADRUNNER APPROACH OR A GRENVILLE-ESQUE SLAP DASH HODGE PODGE WILLY NILLY (OR SILLY NILLY) APPROACH

  22. 555dubstreet Avatar
    555dubstreet

    It’s like a scene from WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE, Romeo and Juliet down here in the underground

    Romeo:
    Have not saints lips, and holy palmers too?

    Juliet:
    Ay, pilgrim, lips that they must use in prayer.

    Romeo:
    O, then, dear saint, let lips do what hands do;
    They pray, grant thou, lest faith turn to despair.

    Juliet:
    Saints do not move, though grant for prayers’ sake.

    Romeo:
    Then move not, while my prayer’s effect I take.
    Thus from my lips, by yours, my sin is purged.

    Juliet:
    Then have my lips the sin that they have took.

    Romeo:
    Sin from thy lips? O trespass sweetly urged!
    Give me my sin again.

    Juliet:
    You kiss by the book.

  23. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    GP,

    My grandmother did believe everything that was in the Bible, probably literally. But the next generation had a different paradigm. My uncle was an Episcopal dean in Miami and I know he sees it as the word of God filtered through the imperfect minds of man. In the book of common prayer after reading the lesson there are two closing options. One can say -‘The Word of the Lord’ or ‘Here ends the lesson’.

    Most now chose the latter.

    The various classes of Anglican young people I taught in Sunday school for more than twenty-five years, generally believe in God but don’t take everything in the Bible literally. I mentioned here before that once I showed one class an old time styled video of Adam and Eve in the garden with the serpent and they could not contain their laughter. They do however see God as the Creator but not in the traditional way. One young man said to me that if the world was the result of a big bang, then God did the banging. They accept some form of evolution and believe we are still evolving and in the process coming to a greater understanding of God. They don’t think God changes, they just believe that we have come to a better understanding of him by stepping back and looking at the Bible dispassionately. They identify more with the LOVING and inclusive God Jesus specifically revealed in the New Testament and see the partiality of the Old Testament as just the limited understanding of the time. And so they do not seek to confine and restrict women. They do not discriminate against homosexuals and they do not dismiss the experience of God by billions of the world’s people of other cultures.

    And they see hell as the grave and nothing more.

    i think the reason why Bible study is not rigorously pursued in my church is because hardly anybody comes. This may be because they think they have the main idea and that Jesus’ words are all they need. Also, they have troubling questions about the Old Testament representation of God and are hesitant to express them. But many middle aged parishioners have taken the opportunity to do the diploma at Codrington College and i am yet to hear anybody stunned by what they hear there. Maybe that is because the priests at our church are usually tutors at the college and therefore their sermons always have a teaching element that prepares the congregation to question long held paradigms..

    I love the hymns and the psalms and the inclusive attitude of my church. The atttude allows ALL PEOPLE to be seen as fully human and to be accepted as being made in the image of God. Some people like to be certain about every little thing and so they leave for other churches that tell them they know it all. Those of us who remain are happy not to restrict God to our particular box or book or mirror. We have unanswered questions but we trust God to have the right answer.

  24. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    Very funny, 555!

  25. GP Avatar
    GP

    INTERESTING
    I DIDNT SEE IT LIKE THAT WHEN I WAS AN ANGLICAN
    SEEMS I WAS MORE LIKE YOUR GRANDMOTHER LOL

    RE We have unanswered questions but we trust God to have the right answer. MOST PEOPLE DO IN ALL CHURCH GROUPS

  26. David Avatar
    David

    @Kiki

    You are a Shakespere Aficionado?

  27. 555dubstreet Avatar
    555dubstreet

    @ David

    No, but we did have to memorise random Shakespeare bits for English Lit. O Level.

    The same teacher had a general studies class called roots of contemporary music where he played jazz blues R&B reggae C&W etc which stuck in my mind more

    this is one song he taught us

  28. David Avatar
    David

    @Kiki

    You had to find a way to reroute to a playlist.

    #lol

  29. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    @ Donna

    Very refreshing approach and one that resonates with Christians who seek to keep abreast of evolving theology.

  30. Miller Avatar
    Miller

    @ GP January 20, 2020 9:49 AM
    “GIVE SUITABLE EXAMPLES
    John 6 Jesus corrected the view of the Jews about the origin of manna said to be given by Moses , and compared it with himself as THE TRUE BREAD THAT CAME FROM HEAVEN
    John 8 Jesus corrected the view of the Jews about their interpretation about the law about adultery by skillfully throwing out the spurious case brought to him and then declaring that HE WAS THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD
    John 9 Jesus corrected the view of the Jews that congenital illnesses was a result of the parents sin
    john 5 Jesus corrected the view of the Jews about the sabbath and gave his qualifications demonstrating that he was indeed GOD..”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    If all these “corrections” had to be made to the OT teachings why then do you continue to refer to the OT as the unchangeable word of the omniscient Yahweh?

    Why can’t Christians just stick to the NT and leave the OT Jewish fairy tales for just reading to the little children to get them ready for bedtime and to frighten them to sleep?

    The Muslims have easily gotten around this dilemma but inventing their own tall tales about the prowess of Muhammad and his many wives and concubines.

    You keep arguing that the NT is just a fulfillment of the OT. So, the question is: Why repeat something that is patently false like Jesus being the new Adam when Jesus is nothing but a readymade jacket for the white man’s propaganda machinery while Adam was tailor-made for sins of the Jews?

  31. GP Avatar
    GP

    WHAT IS EVOLVING THEOLOGY VINCENT?
    PLEASE EXPLAIN

  32. GP Avatar
    GP

    DONNA

    BELOW IS A HOMILY (NOT A SERMON) BY CHARLES SPURGEON, SAID IN HIS TIME TO BE THE PRINCE OF PREACHERS
    HIS TEXT IS JOHN 7:37
    “IF ANY MAN THIRST,
    LET HIM
    COME UNTO ME
    AND DRINK.”

    DUMB DUMB WOULD SAY THAT THIS LIKKLE TALK IS COMPLEX
    BUT I FOUND IT ILLUMINATING
    IT IS CERTAINLY MORE EXPLANATORY THAN JUST THROWING OUT THE VERSE

    Patience had her perfect work in the Lord Jesus, and until the last day of the feast he pleaded with the Jews, even as on this last day of the year he pleads with us, and waits to be gracious to us. Admirable indeed is the longsuffering of the Saviour in bearing with some of us year after year, notwithstanding our provocations, rebellions, and resistance of his Holy Spirit. Wonder of wonders that we are still in the land of mercy!
    Pity expressed herself most plainly, for Jesus cried, which implies not only the loudness of his voice, but the tenderness of his tones. He entreats us to be reconciled. “We pray you,” says the Apostle, “as though God did beseech you by us.” What earnest, pathetic terms are these! How deep must be the love which makes the Lord weep over sinners, and like a mother woo his children to his bosom! Surely at the call of such a cry our willing hearts will come.
    Provision is made most plenteously; all is provided that man can need to quench his soul’s thirst. To his conscience the atonement brings peace; to his understanding the gospel brings the richest instruction; to his heart the person of Jesus is the noblest object of affection; to the whole man the truth as it is in Jesus supplies the purest nutriment. Thirst is terrible, but Jesus can remove it. Though the soul were utterly famished, Jesus could restore it.
    Proclamation is made most freely, that every thirsty one is welcome. No other distinction is made but that of thirst. Whether it be the thirst of avarice, ambition, pleasure, knowledge, or rest, he who suffers from it is invited. The thirst may be bad in itself, and be no sign of grace, but rather a mark of inordinate sin longing to be gratified with deeper draughts of lust; but it is not goodness in the creature which brings him the invitation, the Lord Jesus sends it freely, and without respect of persons.
    Personality is declared most fully. The sinner must come to Jesus, not to works, ordinances, or doctrines, but to a personal Redeemer, who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree. The bleeding, dying, rising Saviour, is the only star of hope to a sinner. Oh for grace to come now and drink, ere the sun sets upon the year’s last day!
    No waiting or preparation is so much as hinted at. Drinking represents a reception for which no fitness is required.
    A fool, a thief, a harlot can drink; and so sinfulness of character is no bar to the invitation to believe in Jesus.
    We want no golden cup, no bejewelled chalice, in which to convey the water to the thirsty; the mouth of poverty is welcome to stoop down and quaff the flowing flood. Blistered, leprous, filthy lips may touch the stream of divine love; they cannot pollute it, but shall themselves be purified. Jesus is the fount of hope. Dear reader, hear the dear Redeemer’s loving voice as he cries to each of us,
    “IF ANY MAN THIRST,
    LET HIM
    COME UNTO ME
    AND DRINK.”

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