est. 2007

Barbados Underground

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Internet Town Hall on Crime & Violence – All Are Invited

With the tranquil landscape of Barbados being routinely disturbed by a culture of gun violence an unprecedented murder rate.  Civil society is being encouraged to frankly discuss short term and long term measures to implement to arrest the trending. BU commenter Greene posted the following measures (with minor edits by the blogmaster) to kickoff Barbados…

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With the tranquil landscape of Barbados being routinely disturbed by a culture of gun violence an unprecedented murder rate.  Civil society is being encouraged to frankly discuss short term and long term measures to implement to arrest the trending. BU commenter Greene posted the following measures (with minor edits by the blogmaster) to kickoff Barbados Underground Internet Town Hall on Crime & Violence – How to Arrest it NOW.

– David, Barbados Underground

Short term measures

  1. Come right out and tell Bajans that the young men in some areas are murderers and are terrorising BIM by killing one another and if they continue so the Govt will have to invite people in BIM to take their place in BIM.
  2. Tell them that the illegal drug trade and reprisals are responsible for murders. that the guns are coming through the Port and that any government officials including but not limited to politicians, police and customs involved and caught will be punished severely. Change the official corruption laws to suit.
  3. Tell mothers and women by accepting drug money and turning a blind eye to the activities of their sons and boyfriends that they part of the problem.
  4. Enforce or implement Money Laundering and asset forfeiture Laws
  5. Second half the Defence Force to the police as patrol units in hot spot with a view to engage and challenge suspected drug and gun men/dealers based on intelligence in the first place and observation when they are in the area.
  6. Actually engage and if fired upon shoot to kill taking into consideration threats to their own lives and dangers posed to others in the area.
  7. Speedy Trials
  8. Look to pop some necks even if it means changing the laws.
  9. Discuss openly about what is causing the problems and solicit solutions.
  10. Seek a truce between warring factions with a forum where where they can confront each other in a neutral setting (do not know if this is possible).
  11. Look at witnesses protection with a view to sending those who qualify to other participatory islands/ countries.
  12. Provide and lease farm land to young men and women who say they have nothing to do.
  13. Teach civics from primary school with an established set of ideals that we expect from Bajans.

And I would say all this to the public.

Long term

  1. Look to change the school system to make it more hands on for boys with more technical subjects.
  2. Revert to single sex schools
  3. Provide counselling or more counselling for troubled youths and parents with early intervention programmes.
  4. Improve the lot of the police by paying them more and making the service more attractive. If the Government says they have no money they can exempt police, fire and prisons (emergency services) from income taxes and provide free health care at any private facility.
  5. Disband the Defence Force and recruit those who want to and are qualified into the police, fire service and prisons.
  6. Change corruption and other associated laws.
  7. Make marijuana legal for anyone over 18.
  8. Decriminalize other hard drugs treating them as a health issue and not a legal issue.
  9. Alter all the above from time to time to suit the changing circumstances.
  10. Look to improve the long term economic and employment situation.

203 responses to “Internet Town Hall on Crime & Violence – All Are Invited”

  1. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    But David

    None of our social systems engender the belief that we are in the same boat.

    That kind of talk is deployed, not by you, to deflect from dealing with structural issues which end up causing violence.

    Look at them, every social system, and you’ll see

    That from the cradle to the grave classism, racism, elitism and ignorance prevails.

  2. Mariposa Avatar
    Mariposa

    And dont forget the Unions owns a large share of the blame
    But look at how their mouths are silence
    Govt lack of stealth to protect the best interest of the country but rather play the political ball thrown by Union representation results in all the crime and gun violence that is sweeping our land
    Now added to the list is more unemployment

  3. William Skinner Avatar
    William Skinner

    @ Hal
    @ Pacha

    We cannot discuss corruption, crime and other societal ills without condemning the academics , who change their minds , to accommodate political parties, that can butter their breads.
    They are criminal as well.

  4. David Avatar
    David

    @Pacha

    All the challenges mentioned by you have been exhaustively ventilated on BU for years with all perspectives contending. Ad you know dealing with soft issues will not yield cut and dried blueprints.

    It always comes back to leadership.

  5. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    No David

    Any crime-free or near crime-free community must be properly rooted in a shared economy, at its base. Barbados was never so based. Never intended to be so constructed or maintained.

    And how could you have that unless issues like a radical land reform be approached.

    Unless we have an education system which has a genesis, not in Greece or Rome or England but Africa, without apology!

    Two ideas from where to start.

  6. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    It amazes me how others can find comments that they made ages ago. I cannot find what I posted yesterday, so I will assume they have have a tracking sheet with the following columns

    Comment Comment Date Name of Blog Author of Blog Blog Date Response To AC (Y/N)

    I am not familiar with the law and jail but I would suggest that they make a second copy of the spreadsheet, delete the content, add the following columns

    Prisoner Dodds Saw the Judge
    Name Cime Arrival Date (Y/N/Date) Outcome

    and send to the guy in charge at Dodds.

  7. David Avatar
    David

    @Pacha

    This blogmaster has no problem with land reform, you will find blogs where this was also discussed. What we fear is a total buyin to a socialist ideology. Land reform must be discussed based on equity and not a right.

  8. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    I love my countrymen
    There is no shortage of ideas.
    Just failure to execute
    Pinkie and the Brain

  9. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    Sir William Skinner

    Our critique of academicians is more deeply rooted.

    We have argued that they were not ‘designed’ to serve our societies at all.

    And in this we see not one exception.

  10. David Avatar
    David

    @Pacha

    Many of the academics we should be looking to bring scholarship to the debate were educated at UWI?

  11. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    David

    The same people, some would want to hang, meaning PIECE

    If you check they ancestry you will see that their forebears were African slaves.

    Your obsequious comparison of notions of equity with economic rights, again plays into the dead-end White colonial narrative.

    That argumentation merely seeks to forget about economic rights, never given in the first place, for labour taken by force.

    And at the same time elevate notions of equity as a social palliative to avoid the generalized violence which must come.

    The days for these kinds of social gymnastics are long gone, we’re afraid!

  12. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    Tings looking up? More nurses to help treat gun shot and stabbing victims.

    The count could be up to 400 Ghanaian nurses on Barbadian soil within the next year, as negotiations for the extra help are expected to be ramped up from late June in the large West African nation. With Ghanaians no longer requiring visas to enter Barbados, the process is also expected to be smoother.

    http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/240277/ghana-help-nurses-soon

  13. David Avatar
    David

    @Pacha

    You prefer the Mugabe read Zimbabwe approach? How did that work out?

  14. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    David

    The UWI has turned out to be nothing more than an industrial factory for the production of widgets.

    A servile institution lacking any radical and constructive ethos.

    This is particularly so under the leadership of the principal whore, Hillary McD Beckles.

  15. David Avatar
    David

    @Pacha

    Why direct such hostility towards one of our great black historians who helped to create the monolithic Sagicor formerly the Mutual Society? Give the man credit!

  16. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    David

    Mugabe’s approach to crime and violence presents a vicious front against poor people.

    On this matter Mugabe is an unrelenting bitch, committed to the punitive actions currently in place.

  17. Robert Goren Avatar
    Robert Goren

    Why don’t you dedicate the time you use to scrutinise and criticize and be sarcastic to other bloggers to create your own spreadsheet and add the columns you mentioned.

    This should be easy for you. After all, you are self-appointed BU police and you can get the stats from the CID Intelligence Unit.

    Yuh know you like to pick at people but when you are picked upon you duz get very acid.

    Hahahaha

  18. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    David

    We were talking about his ‘leadership’ of the UWI relating to social outcomes and crime and violence, particularly.

    You have now raised other issues on which different kinds of thoughtful assessment could be made.

  19. John A Avatar
    John A

    Instead of guessing at what we are doing wrong why not look at countries who clearly are doing something right for the answers?

    If you go to telegraph.co.uk and read the article that speaks to ” The Netherlands falling crime rate is forcing prisons to close” you will see the results of alternate approaches to crime.

    What are we doing wrong in the system when we have such a high ratio of repeat offenders at Dodds, when other countries are actUally closing prisons from a lack of prisoners to put in them?

  20. Mariposa Avatar
    Mariposa

    We can debate till the cows come home
    Barbados once had an advantage to curtail crime
    The govt drop the ball
    Academics drop the ball
    Unions drop the ball
    Now some here are advocating looking towards these people for solutions
    Really.
    If they had nothing to give in the past what would they have to give now
    Look at the suggestions given most here only solution is to give govt a lead way to kill
    What most does not realise is that capital punishment is not a resolution to society problems
    Poor socities need to eat and would resort by any means necessary to eat and live
    Right now our govt has rained down economic hell on this society instead of finding resolution on what negatively effects the poor
    Then we all sit back in our ivory towers in the comfort of our airconditioned homes and ask why

  21. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    Maripokey

    Your vicious and criminal DLP-first cleavages and the opposite BLP misguided devotion is at the centre of these crime and violence social outcomes we now witness.

    For this reason we would have no objections to the remedy proffered by our friend PIECE for those of your ilk on both sides.

  22. Artax Avatar
    Artax

    “Barbados once had an advantage to curtail crime…”

    When did Barbados have this advantage, especially when one takes into consideration crime has been progressively escalating over the past few years?

    “Look at the suggestions given most here only solution is to give govt a lead way to kill..”

    At least, unlike you, other contributors ignored your silly cop-out of referring to consultants and have offered solutions. Rather than continually spewing your usual rhetorical political diatribe, why not, according to you, put your country first instead of yourself and political party……

    ……. and use this forum as a starting point to offer your solutions.

  23. David Avatar
    David

    Those of us intimate with the setup in the schools are horrified about what is happening. Children gambling, children selling and buying 2 bags etc. It may start to improve if we win back control of many schools. This is where is starts and or is incubated.

  24. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    It seems as if the “thought police” are active again…

  25. David Avatar
    David

    There is a lot of talk about fundamental changes to the education system. Some of us wait in hope.

  26. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    David

    Barbados would be in the dust heap of history before that happens.

    Bajans too love their Harrison’s College, their Queen’s College

    Even if they can’t go there. It has always been the ‘weakness’ of all the rest which makes them appear strong.

    What you called ‘control of our schools’ will never happen again.

    Social systems don’t work like that. We’ve been hearing such mantras for decades.

    Too late buddy, too late!

  27. Mariposa Avatar
    Mariposa

    Use this forum as a starting point
    Lest u forget the horse has already bolted
    What govt has to deal with presently is an escalating crime rate delivered at the hands of gang war
    One can easily assume that at the fast space these murders are committed govt does not have the financial capacity or man power to deal with this problem
    Again i reiterate in the past years when govt had financial resources all leaks leading to drug and violence activity should have been stop
    The horse has already bolted

  28. David Avatar
    David

    @Pacha

    Had a long conversation with two retired teachers in recent times. The most disturbing takeaway from the conversation is the joy they expressed the time had finally arrived to get out of the service because of a deteriorating school plant. It does not bode well if we accept the value an an efficient school system a societal kpi.

  29. Pachamama Avatar
    Pachamama

    Even schools like HC and QC have infrastructures in disrepair.

    These problems have long reached the stage of being existential

  30. Tron Avatar
    Tron

    @ Wily Coyote June 15, 2019 7:24 AM

    That’s the way it is.

    We need a People’s Court that imposes the death penalty almost daily for the following crimes: murder, robbery, serious theft, serious corruption, money laundering (in particular).

    The labour penalty should be imposed for lazing around in the workplace. We would then get at least 25,000 extra workers to build roads and keep beaches clean.

    Barbados must become the Singapore of the Caribbean. We have to get rid of the local false understanding of law and order and false work ethic. The population had more than 50 years to play independence like children. We all know that little Barrow and the little boys from the DLP failed in governing.

    It is now time for a woman at the head of state to whip the failing men. They were all weaklings, chatterboxes and total losers. When our esteemed premium minister leads the protest of the righteous and starts a torchlight procession in front of the DPP building and the police station, I am the first one to march along. We need a revolt of the decent against the caste of civil servants dominated by the DLP and the supporters of the DLP.

  31. robert lucas Avatar
    robert lucas

    @ WURA-War-on-U June 15, 2019 6:39 AM

    LEODEAN WORREL
    Is this the woman at the water works who has been pushing her weight around? a buddy of mine had to tell her off. Note the resignations she has encountered already. BWA seems to be in worse condition now.

    @ Hal Austin June 15, 2019 6:13 AM ‘

    “She has already been convicted, so she poses no threat to the jury” So too was Richard Arthur. I have been wondering if the lodge connection came into play. Noted your stance on the legal profession.; still maintain that they are parasites on society. Remember what Samuel Doe in Ghana did with them and politicians: had them shot out of hand. Since then, there seems to be some toning down of their thievery.

  32. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    Inciting violence is a crime – even against lawyers.

  33. robert lucas Avatar
    robert lucas

    @ Hal Austin
    Richard Arthur was in possession of quite a few weapons and a hell of a lot of ammunition that he had no legal right to. He could have started a small-scale war or rob a bank. or hold a judge hostage: all things are possible. He was suffering from high blood pressure, it was in the newspaper. what a joke the judiciary is.

  34. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    @ Robert Lucas

    As I understand it, Mr Arthur was a quarter master in the Rifle Association. If so, bail was appropriate before sentencing. We MUST keep people out of prison. I agree with you that lawyers behave like bandits, but the real problem is the electorate who vote them in to parliament. Look to parliament for the solutions. Get rid of all lawyer/politicians from all parties..

  35. robert lucas Avatar
    robert lucas

    @TLSN June 15, 2019 7:57 AM

    What a great posting : the nuances are linked together. and superbly put over.

  36. Truth and Only the Truth Avatar
    Truth and Only the Truth

    @ TLSN

    When a government colludes with narco economies and domestic minority groups who are immersed in the narco industry should we be surprise that we are witnessing a spike in our murder rates?
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    SPOT ON

  37. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    Mr Blogmaster I am keen to understand your thrust with the remarks: (1) * Those of us intimate with the setup in the schools are horrified about what is happening. Children gambling, children selling and buying 2 bags etc. It may start to improve if we win back control of many schools. This is where is starts and or is incubated... and (2) *There is a lot of talk about fundamental changes to the education system. Some of us wait in hope.

    “WIN BACK CONTROL…” If as you suggest wayward children have the ‘con” can you (or anyone) truly explain how that is, which schools are so controlled and about when that happened!

    Not trying to play words here but it’s time the general public stops just making facile statements and be a bit more precise with these broad sweet sounding phrases.

    And what “fundamental changes” is needed or being proposed? Are we talking about the single sex school trope, for example?

    Like you I chat with teachers (current not retired) somewhat regularly and based on the tremendous changes wrought by various Mins of Edu on the island (Edutech, creating/decommissioning specialized schools for academically disadvantaged children, to name 2 of significants ) I wonder what you mean by FUNDAMENTAL.

    This is a discussion forum my brother so please expand on your cryptic, encoded too brief summations!

    Let me say that it is remarkable that even today some Bajan kids go into school without breakfast or lunch … I thought that had been fundamentally dealt with eons ago at primary level and then beyond that as govt’s social service programs expanded but yet dedicated teachers today have to get private sponsorshipto to remedy that deficiency !

    Is that a tangential type fundamental change you would expect a principal or Chief Ed Officer to adrress, also… afterall before we can get to the coding or science exploration we have to ensure the children are fit to embrace the work!

  38. David Avatar
    David

    @Dee Word

    There is no reason to detail what is known. The cryptic comment to your your description was meant to remind the discussion group what is the reality. Part of the fundamental change is the need to pull children that are disruptive from the mainstream and hold the parents in those situations accountable. The problems have to be attacked holistically. The National debate promised if delivered will help to crystallize many of the issues discussed here.

    The problems are known, including the teachers having inappropriate relationships. For many the issue is not the inappropriate relationship but the willingness of the Ministry to apply a plaster on the sore.

  39. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    David
    June 15, 2019 12:36 PM

    @Dee Word
    There is no reason to detail what is known. The cryptic comment to your your description was meant to remind the discussion group what is the reality. Part of the fundamental change is the need to pull children that are disruptive from the mainstream and hold the parents in those situations accountable. The problems have to be attacked holistically. The National debate promised if delivered will help to crystallize many of the issues discussed here.
    The problems are known, including the teachers having inappropriate relationships. For many the issue is not the inappropriate relationship but the willingness of the Ministry to apply a plaster on the sore.(Quote)

    First , teachers (or any adults) have inappropriate relationships with kids is a criminal offence. Disruptive pupils should be properly assessed by professionals, not parent blaming.

  40. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    @ John at 9 :28 AM

    Very interesting observation. Could we simply redefine what is criminal and empty the prisons? Surely in the Netherlands the reduction was a consequence of decriminalization of various activities which are still on our statute books?
    Just looking at it from another perspective. Lol!!!

  41. robert lucas Avatar
    robert lucas

    @ Hal Austin

    Noted about inciting person to violence.

  42. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    And that is exactly the point I want to drive home : (1) The problems are known and (2l) [the] willingness of the Ministry to apply a plaster on the sore.

    The issues you list as known were there with us for generations…when I was at school it was believed (we didnt hsve cell phone video proof then 😁) that teachers were having inappropriate relationships with students.

    So what is really fundamental is that the level of inappropriate acts have exploded in the greater societ thus I would suggest to you that it is well high impossible now to prescribe an medicine as change within schools alone or even initially … not throwing my hands up but realistically how does want even start to initiate that change needed, when there us such a drastic, fundamental break down in home life!

    And when you state that [p]art of the fundamental change is the need to pull children that are disruptive from the mainstream and hold the parents in those situations accountable I would ask: but wasn’t that done already and met with aggressive societal push back and even legal action by some parents!

    When the special schools, of the type thd last DLP admin decommissioned, were created part of the issue (as I understood it) was to re-adjust those repeat offenders (violence, delinquency etc) into a school environment. One can argue extensively whether that’s the way to go or not as there are lots of pros and cons but simply stated to your point… they have been there, done that!

    So seems that didn’t solve the problem and we’re back to ‘Square One’… and nothing entertaining about dat, nor frankly do I perceive that there is much “to crystallize many of the issues discussed here”.

    Just as we know what’s wrong we damn know how to fix it: there is too much thinking and studies, masters and doctoral theses already done on education for us to really believe here is much NEW to crystallize … process paralysis is the problem!

  43. David Avatar
    David

    @Dee Word

    There is the saying nothing happens before the time.

    The reply to your huge cynicism is “what is the tipping point?”

  44. fortyacresandamule Avatar
    fortyacresandamule

    @Robert Lucas . It was Jerry Rawlings from Ghana not Samuel Doe from Liberia. However, Doe also did the same as Rawlings.

  45. WURA-War-on-U Avatar
    WURA-War-on-U

    “LEODEAN WORREL
    Is this the woman at the water works who has been pushing her weight around?”

    Same demon lawyer who looks just like a bat, a younger bat.

  46. John A Avatar
    John A

    @ Vincent.

    Well you know you can smoke little weed up there and not get lock up lol.

    Seriously though they introduced what could simply be described as productive reform as opposed to “locking up and pelt way the key approach” that we and the USA use. It has proven so successful that many of the inmates actually on serving their time, work in the system either directly or indirectly in the form of counsellors and outreach programs.

    Their crime rate has been on an actual decline from 2004 as a result of using this approach. The last figures I read they had 11 prisons empty with 3 more scheduled to close and are now in discussion with developers to turn them into private dwellings, with the understanding reformed prisoners are guaranteed work in the transformation.

    That My friend is pro-active thinking. In the meantime we got Glendary there breeding rats!

    You can also check ” Norway’s Prison reform, cells with no locks” to see how others have changed their approach to incarceration for th2 betterment of the state.

  47. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    Tipping Point: The fable of the Augean Stables.

    And what will wash our dirt away you ask…I have absolutely no idea. I surmise however that it will not be pleasant.

    On a five point scale of absolutely no special ranking order I cynically offer …

    1.A child/children are wounded/killed at a Bajan school as a result of an explosive altercation originating from a drug matter done outsidee the school and an offspring of a drug lord overeacts to some perceived slight and borrows his dad’s gun to exact punishment… just saying! (Ridiculous right…unrelated but so was this as ridiculous : “A 14-year-old student was taken into custody after allegedly stabbing his principal during graduation rehearsal.”

    2.Non nuclear war erupts outta Iran or otherwise in Mid-East and folks locally get more draconian and focused on violence/disciple etc as the reverberations of the spreading world unrest makes them more alert to the problems of our island awash in guns.

    3.Members of the Bajan glitter crowd or intelligentia- as more popularly labelled – and police officials are victims in a drug gun warfare gone awry…

    4.Bajan Ed officials establish an aggressive plan that caters to the less fortunate, the academically slower learner and the gifted/talented youth and do not pander to concepts that children should be treated as all equally capable!

    5.The WI win the world cup…in essence a miracle!

    In sum, any and all things can tip us to catspraddle as we are about ready to fall … seems the leaders are waiting for the big bang crash to push them into action!

  48. John A Avatar
    John A

    @ Vincent.

    You like me are a linear thinker apparently so let me ask you these questions.

    If at a school say you had a situation where 4 children in each class were always fighting in class how would you address it?

    Some may say let’s take the 4 from each class and place them all in one class so we can deal with it that way. Plus if more continue to fight we can just make the fight class bigger. ( bajan and US penal system)

    Another approach could be the one used in places like Norway and the Netherlands which is.

    Let’s deal with these 4 fighters in the class in the environment they must learn to live in. Let us not place them in a class with all fighters as they will only learn to fight better and on leaving Scholl they will be of little use to society and probably end back up where they started.

    In the above whether it be children at schools or adults in the prison system the same rules apply.

    In Bajan terms both systems BREK and in need or overhauling not fixing.

  49. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    @ John at 1 : 52 PM

    Precisely. The crime is redefined as social and psychological deviance treatable by certified rehabilitators. No confinement. No physical ostracism.

  50. SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife Avatar
    SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife

    The truth is every Bajan man who is a real-real man has a gun, has had a gun, or has aspired to hold a gun.

    Gun ownership is a “rite of passage” for Bajan men.

    Just as the initiation of cigarette smoking used to be a rite of passage for Bajan men, until the cancers, heart disease and emphysema started to catch up with them.

    So the young men are just following in the footsteps of the older men.

    Except that the young men are not just willing to hold the guns, but are willing to actually use them against each other.

    Another thing too many of our men are only loosely attached to family life. Of all of the men who were shot this year, not a single one was married, some had children, but few of them lived every day in the same home as their children, and the mothers of the children. None of them had principal social relationships with their children and the mothers of the children.

    At a certain age, it becomes a rite of passage for young men to break from “the herd” of young men, their peers, and establishes a principal relationship with a woman. That woman and their children then becomes their PRIMARY social relationship. When that does not happen, this is what we get. Instead of the “miserable wife” calling the metaphorical shots, the drug lord is calling the literal shots.

    And no, the political class won’t be able to help us, the police won’t be much help, the soldiers will be even less help, because too many of them, politicians, police, soldiers, have also failed to form health social relationships, too many of them are also gun owners, have been gun owners, or aspire to be gun owners.

    We ain’t see nothing’ yet.

    Add legalised, readily available marijuana to the mix and Barbados will again become one of the very worst places to live, just as it was for most of its history.

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