Submitted by Doc Martin

Once again, the occasion of a general election has surfaced the abysmal ignorance of the electorate about the workings of government. Indeed, if one stands back far enough, one will see that practical government and the perceptions and aspirations of the so-called “masses” operate in parallel universes, the two colliding every five years, for five minutes, in a polling booth. From this perspective, I submit, once again, that the first-level answer to the problems facing Barbados is a change in the character of the incoming government as I argued elsewhere.

DLP Failings
The DLP administration can justifiably be chastised for being slow off the bat to make so-called structural changes to the economy. Most of their first five years were spent apparently “relearning” the inner workings of the “modern” Barbados economy having been away from the seat of power for fifteen years. In their play for time, they were aided by their constant references to the truckload of debt left by the BLP and the worldwide, manmade recession which began around 2007.

In the last three years or so the Government did come up with embryonic plans (predicated on free IMF advice) to stabilize the economy but, as the IMF itself has well documented, lack of timely implementation has stymied the efforts and put the economy in further jeopardy. Perhaps, one of the greatest shortcomings of the DLP administration has been its inability to communicate with the population in terms that can be understood. There was also the ever-present temptation of nepotism, cronyism and sheer corruption which the administration could not resist. Of course, they do not have any monopoly on these sins, as the BLP would have us believe!

Parallel Universes
On page 61 of the 2015 budget, Chris Sinckler, the DLP’s Minister of Finance, made a very serious statement which, because of its importance and relevance, I reproduce here.

Mr. Speaker at present we seem to be caught in a vortex where we have a “Scandinavian” approach to the delivery of social services, where they generally are provided free at the point of delivery to all (universal access), while on the other hand, we appear to desire an Anglo-American approach to the issue of taxation where taxes are relatively low, and citizens clamour for ever lower taxes and tax exemptions.

It is in that dialectic: the aspirations of the masses vs. the penchant for unlimited freeness; the quest for benefits without bearing the fiscal costs; the clamour for rights vs. the willingness to bear the attendant responsibilities, that we find the parallel universe phenomenon which is at the root of the problems in Barbados and perhaps similar countries. And it is against this parallel universe concept that we should examine the sale of the Barbados Hilton.

Hilton on the Block
The BLP has made an election issue out of the sale and claimed that its plan to protest right outside the hotel has caused a halt to the negotiations on the sale. It claims this is a victory for the party; the naïve and the yard fowls will easily concur.

Successive Barbadian governments have failed to make the populace understand that the economic and financial principles of running a government are fundamentally the same as running a household. If a household’s earnings are less than what it spends it will have a “deficit” and have to borrow and if it over-extends itself in borrowing, it is only a short time before the debt collectors are knocking on its door! The fact that this is not understood is partly responsible for the parallel universe phenomenon.

A household can find financial ease if it has assets that can be used to generate income or sold to bring cash or, less preferably, used as collateral to obtain further credit. The sale of the Hilton should be viewed from this perspective.

Government is not, and should not be, in the business of running hotels per se. The Hilton is an asset held by government for the purpose of earning revenue; it is not a family heirloom that is inviolable. Given the dire straits in which it finds itself, the Government has chosen to sell the Hilton to bring much needed cash and possibly foreign exchange. At least this is the prima facie situation.

We can speculate or form conspiracy theories as to what else is going on. However, the objective fact is that the government needs the money. We might object to the price or even the terms of sale. If this is Ms. Mottley’s position, then we can support it. But there is always more in the mortar than the pestle! In this case, we suspect that Ms. Mottley is trying to earn political points and retaliate for the tax expose wrought upon her family by the DLP-Owen Arthur consortium; even that is understandable…to a point.

But, if the prima facie situation is what it is, then Ms. Mottley is being hypocritical because Bajan memories are not so short as not to remember the sale of the BNB (Barbados National Bank) to Trinidad by the last BLP administration of which she was a member.

Sale of government assets, when done for the right reason and in the right manner, is no more unethical or financially unsound than a household going about the sale of family assets, even heirlooms, to avoid bankruptcy or financial ruin. It is principled financial management and plain common sense!

Standby to Transport Aliens
It is time the masses started behaving like citizens rather than aliens, learn how government works and stop letting political parties exploit them because they are so naïve as to expect that government works any differently, fundamentally, from how they run (or should run!) their households. Then they will be in a position to critically evaluate the promises being made in this and any future election. But alas, this appears to be asking too much of a highly certificated but “uneducated” and alienated electorate. In that case the beam up is aborted!

Towards Proportional Representation
The foregoing should not be construed as an attempt to apologize for the DLP. On the contrary! In fact, I am not at all comfortable with a government made up solely of members of any one party be it BLP or DLP.

The moment is right in history for a government by coalition. To this end, the best thing the Barbados electorate can do at this time, is to ensure, in the absence of a system of proportional representation, that no one party makes up the incoming government of 2018. This it can do if a substantial portion of the electorate votes for members of a third party they feel have something worthwhile to contribute and at the same time, reject those of the major parties who have demonstrated incompetence, corruption or other malfeasances. I can think of at least three or four individuals across the current DLP administration and the BLP whom the electorate should sanction for these reasons.

Finally, if the electorate is so unhappy with how the older parties have been managing the people’s business in recent times, once this election is over, it needs to demand, by referendum, a change in the electoral system from the current first-past-the-post method to one based on proportional representation (with the added feature of recall!) which, all other things being equal, will always yield a coalition government.

82 responses to “Sale of the Barbados Hilton and the Parallel Universe Phenomenon”


  1. David BU

    Did you hear Jamaica’s justice minister’s response to Stuart’s comment re if the DLP is re-elected Barbados would “de-link” from the CCJ?


  2. @Atax

    Yes, posted a link to George Brathwaite submission.

  3. Freedom Crier Avatar

    By the way we do not pay taxes the Government Takes our Taxes. Taxation is not voluntary it is forced. I have been writing for a few years now, that the solution to pilfering by way of Taxation by Governments is the System of Governance meaning Socialist practices of robbing Peter to pay Paul and until we come to understand that Socialism is a Godless Conspiracy Masquerading as Political Philosophy, we will continue to be deprived, the only intent of such, is to rule over others for Control and Profit.

    More than a failed state, it’s a failed SYSTEM. It’s called Socialism and it sooner or later fails everywhere. Its motto is, “When at first you don’t succeed, fail, fail again.” In the free, competitive private sector, failure is something you learn from, so you can succeed in the future. But in the public sector under socialism especially, failure is merely an excuse to fail even more spectacularly later because all that matters is intentions, not results. Let’s hope that in Venezuela, the hour of liberation is near and that lessons will be learned from this horrific flop spelled S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-M.

    “It would appear to me that when a mind has been trained to hold such bitterness against capitalism, to believe in the illusions of Communism, it is no wonder that some of this same mentality have used their influence in scientific circles, in embassies and in governmental positions to betray the interests of their own countries and collaborate with what has turned out to be the most formidable enemy free men have ever faced.”

    https://goingplaceslivinglife.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/capitalism-4.jpg


  4. Arthur sold a controlling interest in the BNB, one of the worst acts of undermining the financial independence. It is the controlling interest that is important, with a right to appoint the chairman of the board, and s/he the CEO.

  5. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    Mr Blogmaster there was no “loose way Bajans generally internalized this as the national bank being controlled by the Trinis. ”

    As noted above a majority stock ownership is CONTROL.

    There is nothing to quibble or play semantics with on that score….nothing ‘loose’ as long as the investor hits 51% of stock.


  6. Hal Austin’s comment re: “Arthur SOLD a CONTROLLING interest in the BNB, is correct. And therein lies the difference.

  7. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    53 Comments!

    53 Comments replete with words and concepts and tings bout socialism and capitalism and democratic socialism

    And of course the usual chant and cry against comrade David Commisiong (whose speech on the BLP platform was obsequious poppycock but he is not running so de ole man going lef he alone)

    Doc Martin says and I quote “A household can find financial ease if it has assets that can be used to generate income or sold to bring cash or, less preferably, used as collateral to obtain further credit…”

    De ole man going date meself as I seek to deconstruct this wasted gem of a statement for your August selves.

    How many of wunna had parent who came up in households, bereft of all the University Graduates in every home, remember the boss economists dat your mudder (sometimes complimented by your fadder) was?

    How many uh wunna did had to water de gardens (import substitution) feed de stock a few pics if wunna was in de cuntry, sheep or rabbits effing wunna was in town (cause pig swill like whu de DLP does generate in Parliament) does smell and de health inspectors would ban it in the close confines of town.

    How many of wunna understand how ingrunt uneducated people in what we consider backward years UNDERSTOOD WHAT DIVERSIFICATION OF THEIR HOME ECONOMY WAS?

    Every single one of wunna here is divvying up the single serving of food that successively incompetent governments have proudly exhibited as their crown jewels YET NOT A MAN JACK HAS SPOKEN ABOUT OR BROUGHT ANYTHING NEW TO THE ANECDOTAL TABLE

    All this reproducing of debt and right sizing and all the other balarney is pure bad word.

    But de ole man realises that it is where our collective psyche is AND HAS BEEN for so long that it becomes the defining issue IS ALL CONVERSATIONS HERE ON BY AND WIDER AFIELD

    Let me share a little secret that will put thus in context

    The revenues that TOEFL (let Google be your friend) generate worldwide are phenomenal

    A specific department at the UWI has proposed such an initiative for years, YET, because de idea ent come from certain people, um is not supported

    In fact, we ole man can give a lot of stories bout UWI initiatives that were serious generators of $$ and FOREX that have be killed by the Dr Robinson’s of this world.

    Diversify or Die.

    The base populations of ALL countries is increasing so it follows that if one does not do something to expand the assets in the household THE OCCUPANTS OF THE HOUSE GINE GET MALNUTRITION AND THEN STARVE

    But den again I ent no brainaic like wunna fellers so I best go back to youtube videos, Stoopid Cartoons and Tee Shirts

    Oooops dat is why de BLP is using as part of its campaign ent it?

    I wonder effing dem would give de ole man a piece?

    Uh better rephrase that…heheheheh

  8. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    @The Honourable Blogmaster your assistance please

  9. Freedom Crier Avatar

    Tee White May 21, 2018 3:07 PM @Freedom Crier
    You sound like you are either a Klu Klux Klan supporter or a lover of Adolf Hitler as these are usually the most rabid anti-communists.

    @Tee White Take Note…But of Course you Already Know that!

    https://www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/v/vladimirlenin/136421/vladimirlenin1-2x.jpg

    @ Tee White…It is the nature of the left to accuse others of what they themselves Depict… Careful the Master You Serve. No wonder it is written, “Judge Not Least Ye Be Judged”.

    The Name of Hitler’s Party was National Socialist Party. It is high time we realized the dangerous threat to America and the rest of the world including Barbados of Creeping Socialism as the Ruthless Comrade to Atheistic Communism. It is high time we recognize creeping Socialism for what it really is—a Red Carpet Providing a Royal Road to Communism.

    https://pics.me.me/he-was-a-socialist-created-universal-health-care-gave-free-30069472.png

  10. Freedom Crier Avatar

    Wealth is the Product of Man’s Capacity to Think

    Russian born novelist’s, Ayn Rand’s, intellectual assault against the Marxists of her day who diminish the worth of Individual Freedom, she argues in character: “But you say that [wealth] is made by the strong at the expense of the weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or muscles. Wealth is the product of man’s capacity to think. Then is [wealth] made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who did not invent it? Is [wealth] made by the intelligent at the expense of the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the ambitious at the expense of the lazy? [Wealth] is made — before it can be looted or mooched — by the effort of every honest man, each to the extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he can’t consume more than he has produced” (See: Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand, 1957.)

    “In other words, wealth comes at nobody’s expense but the inventor, the free thinker, the one actually taking the risk and making the sacrifice. It never costs anything to anybody else. There is no expense incurred to those who sit by the sidelines. Therefore, it cannot ever be considered ‘theft” from others who were never involved nor invested in the very process. It costs others nothing!”

    What is the Opposite of Capitalism?
    Statism, in any form!

    Statism is the concentration of power in the state at the expense of individual freedom. Capitalism is the only system which protects individual rights and freedom, but the variety of political systems which violate individual freedom are numerous: Socialism, Communism, Fascism, Nazism, absolute Monarchies, Military Dictatorships, Theocracies, or the Welfare State are all systems which infringe upon individual rights, which means they institutionalize the initiation of force against their citizens.

    It must be realized that there are only two fundamental political philosophies: those who are for freedom and individual rights and those who are against them. The types of political systems who are against freedom and individual rights are numerous, for there are many ways to violate the rights of man, but there is only one political-economic philosophy which upholds that the rights of man are absolute and immutable—Capitalism.

    https://quotefancy.com/media/wallpaper/3840×2160/135635-Ayn-Rand-Quote-Wealth-is-the-product-of-man-s-capacity-to-think.jpg


  11. @Slavery Crier
    It is clear to me that you have a fanatical and blind belief in what what you call ‘free market capitalism’ but it is also clear to me that you don’t have the slightest idea how the capitalist system works.

    There are so many points in your statement that are patently inaccurate that it is diffcult to know where to start. I will address a few of them below.

    “…the smallest minority is the individual…”

    Individual members of society are not minorities and it is illogical to argue that they are. Human beings are social beings with individual existence. This means that although we have individual bodies and life experiences which lead us to having individual psychologies, tastes etc, none of this is developed outside of society and our connections to other human beings. We need another human being to be born and when we are born, we wil very quickly die unless there are other human beings to look after us and care for us. At every point in our existence until our death we are in connection with other human beings. So our social connections are actually the basis of our individuality. If we look at any society from the angle of its individual members, obviously there can be no majority or minority because we will see a collection of unique individuals. The question of majority and minority only arises when we look at the needs and interests that groups of individuals share in common. For example, pregnant women, despite each one’s unique individuality, will have in common the interests and needs arising from their pregnancies. The same can be said for the numerous groups that individuals belong to in society, for example, workers, women, young people, children and so on. What this demonstrates is that individuals are bound up with each other and do not exist as an island, contrary to the notion pushed by European capitalism. Margaret Thatcher once infamously declared that there is no such thing as society. In direct opposition to this barbaric Eurocentric model of ‘every turkey for he own craw’, most traditional African societies in common with other traditional societies did not accept that the interests of the individual exists in conflict with the general interest of society. Instead they approached the issue from the angle that the society must care for the well being of its individual members and its individual members must care for the well being of the society.

    “…the individual’s pursuit of his own economic self-interest simultaneously benefits the economic self-interests of all others…”

    This is patently false. Please explain how the English slave masters through individually pursuing their own economic self interest by enslaving our African foreparents simultaneously benefited our enslaved ancestors. I look forward to hearing your explanation.

    3.”The free-market operates in such a way so that as one man creates more wealth for himself, he simultaneously creates more wealth and opportunities for everyone else, which means that as the rich become richer, the poor become richer…”

    First, it has been demonstrated beyond any doubt that the only way a person can create wealth for themselves is if they do not work for anyone and no one works for them. If a farmer has a plot of land which she tills herself and brings the produce to market for sale, she creates wealth for herself and no-one else. If a farmer employs labourers to work on her farm, these labourers create wealth for her and she no longer creates wealth for herself.

    Secondly, a simple review of Barbados’ history demonstrates that your ideas are completely incorrect. After 200 years of slavery and 100 years of colonial bondage which enriched many English capitalist families, the vast majority of Bajans, according to the British government’s own 1945 Moyne report, were suffering malnutrition and extreme poverty. This clearly shows that as the slavemasters became richer, the slaves most certainly did not. Your theory collapses on the floor, bruggadax!.

    “Free Market Capitalism recognizes that it is just for a man to keep what he has earned and that it is unjust for a man, or group of men, to have the right to what other people have earned” and “Since all people must live independently under Capitalism, all of the material values that a person acquires must be earned” and “Contrary to widely held beliefs, capitalism is not a system which exploits a large portion of society for the sake of a small minority of wealthy capitalists”

    It is difficult to understand why you would make such nonsensical statements which are easily demonstrated to be totally false. Let us take a simple example of COW Williams and his workers. If all of COW’s workers were to go on strike tomorrow and all of his equipment was standing idle, would his companies be producing any wealth? The simple answer, which the whole world knows and which you must also know is that they wouldn’t. Now if COW was to drop dead tomorrow and all his workers turned up for work and did their jobs, would his companies be producing any wealth? The simple answer is that they would. So with this simple example from our own country, we can see that it is workers who create wealth and not capitalists. Given this reality, what Free Market capitalism does recognise is the unjust right of the capitalists to pocket the wealth created by the labour of the workers. The Englishman Luke Johnson, who is the the major shareholder in Elegant Hotel Group that operates 7 hotels in Barbados, was last year paid BD$1.5 million in dividends while a waiter working for this hotel chain in any of their outlets in this country earns BD$400 a week. Please explain to me how Mr Johnson earned his material values of BD$1.5 million?

    I could go on and on but I think you get my point. Can I suggest that in order to make your contributions to the discussion on our country’s future serious that you explain your ideas with logical arguments and support them with concrete examples drawn from the experience of Barbados, rather than simply reposting the nonsensical blabberings of various North American nut jobs?


  12. Free market capitalism fails because the distribution of money is from a centralized source. It always becomes corrupt with cronyism, manipulation, Monopoly.

    Socialism fails because because it is fundamentally unstable, as we are not all equal and those most capable of circumventing the control of the state will inevitably rise to control the state and allocation of resources.

    A solution is a decentralized monetary paradigm and advance political consensus mechanisms like the governance models of 3rd generation cryptocurrencies. The old system however, will not go quietly into the night.


  13. @Tee White May 22, 2018 10:02 AM

    ++ Marxist Model++
    You do your readers a disservice by not telling the less erudite of them that you are using a Marxist model to interpret Caribbean history and society. As you know (I hope), this model interprets society as being in a conflict that will only to be resolved when the proletariat (“the masses”) overcome the bourgeoisie (“wealth owning capitalist class”)…more or less! Those who have had to read Sociology and Politics for any of their Social Science degrees know that there are other approaches to the interpretation of the society e.g. consensus theory as postulated by Emile Durkheim et.al.

    Strong exception has to be taken to your statement:
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    First, it has been demonstrated beyond any doubt that the only way a person can create wealth for themselves is if they do not work for anyone and no one works for them.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Yours is clearly an idealistic view. What is freedom? What do you mean by “scientific” especially with reference to so-called “social science”? These are relative terms and age and experience teach us that translating ideas into practical action is not as easy as it seems, even in one’s personal life!

    But I want to steer away from pure theorizing/academics here because, in my view, to be truly educated is to be able to fashion an eclectic way of thinking that does not make one a slave of any particular ideology.

    ++The Caribbean Post-Colonial Problem ++
    This discussion has made me even more conscious, and appreciative, of the ideological difficulties people like Barrow, Manley and Forbes Burnham might have had in the forties and fifties when they received their education in the “Mother Country” and later when they entered political life in their respective countries. For sure they were clear that they wanted independence for their countries and we know the results of their efforts to achieve that.

    But the big problem that must have confronted them, and which cuts across this discussion, is how were they going to transform their countries – economically, politically – especially since they had not been given one red cent by the Mother Country as “seed” money to jump start their post-independence economies. So I do understand your attack on the slave traders and plantation owners etc.

    ++The Ideological Battle++
    While Barrow et.al. must have been contemplating their approach, the world was busy dividing itself into two ideological camps: the socialism/ communism camp led by the Russians and democracy championed by the major western countries…more or less!

    Into this political milieu entered the Barrows, Manleys and Burnhams. How were they going to transform their newly independent countries? Those who have done some West Indian history know that Jamaica and Guyana gravitated towards a socialist/communist model while countries like Barbados and Trinidad gravitated towards a democratic socialism model.

    There is ample evidence of the ideological battle fought by Barrow. For example, this from his first budget speech:
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I think that we in the West Indies should not be looking around for somebody to lead and work out our own political and economic philosophy and I do not think that it pays any West Indian politician to either look too rapidly in the direction of Europe or Asiatic countries for our basic philosophies of life.”
    REMEMBERING BARROW: Quotes by Errol Barrow, BARBADOS NATION, 21 January 2016
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    To avoid confusing the issues we need to make a distinction between pure socialism/communism and democratic socialism. It is not true that they are exactly the same! Some would even argue that there are shades of difference between socialism and communism. Even providing definitions of these will not help us very much to understand what is going on in a real society unless we understand that subscribing to an ideology is not the same as implementing it! That is a discussion all by itself. So, in a real world how one attempts to transfer wealth from the haves to the “have-nots” can be done in different ways.

    ++Socialism/Communism Approach ++
    The approach of pure socialism/communism is to forcibly take the wealth of the “haves” and transfer it to the “have-nots”. Two of the techniques used are expropriation of assets and nationalization. We know how these have failed in different degrees in Jamaica, Guyana, Cuba and Venezuela. Chavez and now Maduro are still trying to impose pure socialism on Venezuela. A deadly attempt was made in Grenada. Others elsewhere in this blog have documented the failings of Chavez and now his acolyte, Maduro. As usual, the communists will find someone on the communist “shit list” (pardon my French!) usually the Americans, to blame for their failures.

    Incidentally, I read somewhere that Karl Marx, one of the major architects of the communist ideology, was inspired by the communal arrangements made by Christians in the Acts of the Apostles; this is where some sold their possessions and shared them with those who had nothing (same place where Ananias and Sapphira were issued with exit visas!). Apart from taking that out of context, the salient difference between communism and what the Christians did (which might better be described as COMMUNALISM) is that they did it VOLUNTARILY, a point seemingly lost on “well-meaning” communists, if such ever existed! But I digress!

    Jamaica and Guyana pursued a “less forceful” approach by opting for nationalization of major economic assets viz. bauxite. We all know how that has failed. Now, to one degree or another, and after years of economic failure, they have found themselves more to the right of the communist – democracy continuum.

    +++Home Grown Socialism+++
    Barbados, unlike Jamaica and Guyana, has pursued a more democratic form of socialism (if that is not a contradiction). At some point, Errol Barrow distanced himself from the communism – democracy polarization by making the now famous “friends of all, satellites of none” declaration below. His exact words are worth noting:
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    “We shall not involve ourselves in sterile ideological wranglings because we are exponents not of the diplomacy of power, but of the diplomacy of peace and prosperity. We will not regard any great power as necessarily right in a given dispute unless we are convinced of this, yet at the same time we will not view the great powers with perennial suspicion merely on account of their size, their wealth, or their nuclear potential. We will be friends of all, satellites of none.”
    REMEMBERING BARROW: Quotes by Errol Barrow, BARBADOS NATION, 21 January 2016
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Cuba and now Venezuela, as you know, have done otherwise!

    Rather than expropriating assets (our worse “socialist sin” if you want, has been the Compulsory Acquisition of Land act, although that was originally proclaimed in 1949!), successive Barbadian governments have invested in assets e.g. banks, hotels, plantation land (on the behalf of and for the people, it should be understood) as well as invested heavily in education, institution building ( e.g. trade unions), legal reform etc as means of helping a poor post-colonial society rise to a place of relative prosperity, in an atmosphere of respect for private property and relative peace. Unless we want to veer to the left, free enterprise and wage earning will continue to exist side-by-side. Thankfully, unions have been the major buffer in this relationship between the capitalists and the wage earning class.

    This, I submit, has been the outworking of our own home grown version of democratic socialism in Barbados and the understanding of both major political parties, as well as third parties that have come and gone over the years. It is the reason why we often complain (accurately so) that we can see no (philosophical) difference between the major political parties!

    So this imminent May 24 election is not going to be fought on ideological grounds, never mind the DLP may want to take sole ownership of the democratic socialist model that has been fashioned over the years. Rather it will be fought on the practical grounds of what combination of people and policies can best continue to implement and manage our version of democratic socialism WITHOUT making us poorer (by reversing the economic gains made over the years) while at the same time, stamping out corruption and waste as well as refraining from embarrassing us!

  14. Freedom Crier Avatar

    THE EXACT OPPOSITE TO ‘SOCIAL JUSTICE’
    ECONOMIC JUSTICE…
    YOU WORK,
    YOU GET PAID
    THAT IS ECONOMIC JUSTICE!

    Jesus was Not a Socialist he did not take from the Productive and give it to those who did Not Produce, quite the opposite. He encourages us to be Fruit and Multiply in all areas of our lives.

    We all have been given talents and the more we use these gifts, the more we are given, for what does it profit a man if he is given a gift and he does not appreciate the gift or the giver, it certainly would not profit him and in nothing is God offend except those that are unappreciative.

    We are indebted to God for all that has been given and we are to use our talents and abilities to reach our highest potential. He knows our potential we do not, by exercising faith, weak things become strong!

    Those that bury these gifts because of slothfulness will not reap blessings but the opposite.

    They are those that practice not working but expecting the fruit of others that labor. In our day, this is called Social Justice. This is corruption of the Law of the Harvest, you reap what you Sow, and by the sweat of man’s brow he should eat bread

    Social Justice is a Prevision of the Parable of the Talents

    Parables of Jesus: The Parable of the Talents

    Jesus declares the parable of the talents. Matthew 25:14-30

    Matthew 25:14-30 (KJV)

    14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
    15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
    16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
    17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
    18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.
    19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
    20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
    21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
    22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
    23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
    24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
    25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
    26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
    27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
    28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
    29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
    30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    https://conservativelibrary.com/wp-content/gallery-bank/gallery-uploads/o_1bc1tgnmf1c886k83f5tb71ojaf.jpg

  15. Freedom Crier Avatar

    Socialist pretend to be caring under the Guise of Social Justice. While it is Benevolent to help another from one’s own pocket it is Deplorable to take from another person by force through Forced Taxation which knows no bounds that is Stealing even if it is legal theft. Everything comes at the taxpayers’ expense.

    We are given the Commandments to guide us. It is written that we should love others as ourselves…The Good Samaritan did not call on the Government to help the man by the wayside, he did so of his own means. The other Commandments that support this is, ‘Thou shalt not Steal or Covert’ what belongs to another man.

    You see Jesus taught us to render unto Cesar that which is Caesar which was 10%.He understood that Taxation put on people was mandatory and a heavy price would be meted out if the people did not pay the Government. That had nothing to do with the Law of Tithing which was Voluntary then and still is today. Nowadays Taxation is Soooo cumbersome on people’s backs that surviving on the bare essentials is what is left after the heavy burden of taxes is taken. So to be Charitable becomes difficult and hence the people look to the State as their provider and not to the God of Providence.

    Socialism is Atheism Masquerading as Political Ideology while Pretending to be Charitable… If the State was not so Greedy there would be more Philanthropy.

    Barbados and all her Heroes were Socialist, so were many of the other Caribbean. One can look at Guyana, Jamaica, How long did it take Guyana to Recover from Forbes Burnham and Cheddi Jagan. How long has it taken Jamaica and it is still reeling from Norman Manley? See what has happened under full Blown Socialism as in Venezuela. The “Object of Socialism is Communism”, Vladimir Lenin. Socialism is Communism with Patience and it has been a Steady and Slow Culprit over the entire world.

    Socialism has varying degrees but it is all Socialism when said and done. It is Atheism Masquerading as Political Philosophy. Do not by it even under the Guise of Democratic Socialism. The thing is that Socialist eventually run out of other people’s money as Margaret Thatcher rightly said and now Barbados has hit Rock Bottom. The Wrong Choice this time may lead us into Despair for Generations.

    https://cached-assets.patriotpost.us/images/2015-09-09-cf094c77_large.jpg

  16. Freedom Crier Avatar

    @ Mr. Doc Martin I am acquainted which that which is written. ‘The Straight and Narrow’. You have attempted to paint a picture of walking a very fine line between all the different Variance of Socialism. You are like a young tree in the wind and saying this level of bending in the wind is perfect and we shouldn’t bend any more or we shouldn’t bend any less.

    May I remind you that your Masterful Master (Barrow) who found the perfect Solution that is Democratic Socialism of bending in the wind just so much and no more is Dead. And the Current Crop of Benders in the wind have not found that supposed sweet spot if it ever existed.

    The Straight and Narrow is Freedom for the Individual…The whole war in heaven was fought so we can choose for ourselves. I Choose Freedom Rather than the Serfdom that you Advocate.

    Here is one of my Favorite Quotes to support that by Harriette Tubman… “I Freed A Thousand Slaves and Could Have Freed A Thousand More, if Only They Knew They Were Slaves!”

    Voluntary Servitude is one Without Physical Chains.

    You Know Absurd Freedom must Sound to those who are Comfortable in Slavery?…

    They are the Ones who Fight the Hardest to Preserve the Very Fetters and Chains of Hell!!

    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d4/06/a2/d406a295cc15689a178f31361d64cb45.jpg


  17. @Freedom Crier May 23, 2018 6:15 AM
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Jesus was Not a Socialist he did not take from the Productive and give it to those who did Not Produce, quite the opposite. He encourages us to be Fruit [FUL] and Multiply in all areas of our lives.

    We all have been given talents and the more we use these gifts, the more we are given, for what does it profit a man if he is given a gift and he does not appreciate the gift or the giver, it certainly would not profit him and in nothing is God offend except those that are unappreciative.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Indeed! Couldn’t agree with you more here!


  18. @Artaxerxes May 22, 2018,12:02 AM
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    “Successive Barbadian governments have failed to make the populace understand that the economic and financial principles of running a government are fundamentally the same as running a household.”

    Could the author please explain the above comment?
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Happy to oblige:

    [1] You WORK and earn revenue.
    [2] You SPEND LESS than you earn.
    [3] You SAVE some of what you earn (after paying Uncle Sam)
    [4] You INVEST some of your earnings / savings in ASSETS that can earn more “revenue” now or later when sold.
    [5] If you BORROW you make sure the PAYMENTS do not exceed your ability to pay (after providing for living expenses etc). Bankers (should) help to keep you in line here!
    [6] And you keep all of the above in BALANCE!

    It is called good stewardship and is Biblically endorsed!

    (I have deliberately left out the issue of GIVING & TITHING here because of the audience I think I am speaking to. We say we are Christians but I am not sure what we mean by that!)

    But, think of the government as being there to help the country to do all of the above on a macro level. Well the government does not work per se; it collects taxes. But when it violates [2] it gets a deficit! (Nice euphemism, that word!). National Insurance is part of our collective savings handled by the government [3] Buying and selling assets such as hotels, plantations etc is an example of [4] . Violating [5] is where we are at right now! Need I say what [6] is?

    The purpose of government is (should be) to help us do the above things we can’t (sometimes WON’T) do for ourselves and for the COLLECTIVE good of all e.g. save money.

    When we expect the government to do more than the above or when political parties promise to do more than is feasible, then we get ourselves into trouble!

    Was this helpful?

  19. Freedom Crier Avatar

    @ Doc Martin Which part of the COLLECTIVE National Insurance money can you get…If it is National Insurance and I Breck a foot, are they going to fix it.

    Which Part of the COLLECTIVE part of the Lands of the Government is yours and can you work it?
    Which Part of Anything that is part of the COLLECTIVE is yours even a Square inch? Do you have a title Deed? These thoughts of COLLECTIVISM are Communist/Socialist Inspired.

    It is like saying I have a Million Dollars here that is yours but I am going to keep it for you, don’t mind you will never get to touch it. Using your analogy of the Home, that the car that I pay for is not mine but it belongs to the COLLECTIVE and I can’t drive it unless I get permission from people that never paid for it. As in in the Civil Masters who are paid by us telling us what we can do and not do with our own money and anything that belongs to us…

    Congratulations Mt. Doc Martin Thanks but No Thanks, I want no part of your Vision of COLLECTIVISM. Can I Opt Out? Can You Opt Out? If you can’t and I can’t Opt Out then are you and I are not Free?

    “The welfare state reduces a citizen to a client, subordinates them to a bureaucrat, and subjects them to rules that are anti-work, anti-family, anti-opportunity and anti-property … Humans forced to suffer under such anti-human rules naturally develop pathologies.

    The evening news is the natural result of the welfare state.”

    https://www.facebook.com/WeAreConstitutionalWatchmen/photos/a.170682626319196.44867.159188630801929/926087410778710/?type=3&theater

  20. Freedom Crier Avatar

    A Perfect Example of these Bureaucratic Failures that have Handicapped Barbados. All of these Agencies are Losing Money. Hence my argument from the Beginning that the Bureaucratic State hinders Development and what is the Proper Role of Government. I would like to thank Mr. Peter Webster for bringing these things to light…

    Mr. Caswell Franklyn

    Dear Sir:

    I usually read your column because of your fair and balanced commentary, not like some of the other contributors. Your column on Sunday May 20th dealing with the Barbados Civil Service was however too defensive and not as realistic as it should have been. You write off as “anecdotes” the Service’s failures implying that since they were not substantiated they could not be correct.

    Having worked in and with the Barbados Civil Service all my working life (39 years) I can give you endless first hand examples of the Service’s failures. Let me also point out that it was not just a matter of bureaucracy or that the personnel themselves were bad. In fact I know that over 90% were/are decent, honest, “salt of the earth” people. I have seen some sections really working and producing while others are not.

    For more than 15 years of my working life I was involved with the World Bank, Inter-American Development Bank and the Caribbean Development Bank in Public Sector Reform. Why? Because there was an obvious need. The mistake we made was in calling it “Reform” which focused on an action rather than the goal of “performance improvement”. The Public Sector Reform Unit’s focus on systems, procedures and processes has therefore been a failure in terms of “performance improvement”.

    Allow me to back track first to the Hon. Mr. Errol Barrow’s failure. The British Colonial power never had a standing army in any of its territories. The occupying army of the Colonial power was in fact the Civil Service hence the Hon. Mr. Barrow’s reference. The Hon. Mr. Barrow’s biggest error was not in “politicizing the Civil Service” – I do not agree that this was the outcome of his actions – but in creating the 40-plus State-owned Enterprises (SOEs) with which we are currently saddled, rather than fixing the problem! This was done to circumvent the established bureaucracy but ended up creating worse bureaucracies that are even less productive because they are unaccountable.

    In 2007 I listed the charges made by the then Opposition against the then Government and 80% of these from the cost over-runs on the ABC Highway to the issues with the Prison were all failures of the Civil Service and the situation has not changed. Six months ago a team of consultants visited Barbados to investigate the potential for a major capital project that would have resulted in a much needed massive capital investment in Barbados. After two weeks of consultations with senior Civil Servants in Barbados they reported that they (the consultants) were “none the wiser”. Barbados International rating for “ease of doing business” is the worst in our region.

    After 40 years and hundreds of millions of dollars on the St Joseph Hospital in St. Peter our Civil Service has now determined that it should not be there in a Zone 1 water protected area. This same Civil Service some years ago built a playing field, pavilion and parking lot at the mouth of a drainage gully in the process diverting the drainage from one watershed to another costing close to a million dollars in damage to roads down-stream. These are but a few of the substantiated examples not anecdotes – the tip of the ice berg – and I have not yet touched on the true facts about the South Coast Sewerage system or the poor maintenance of the transport and garbage vehicles, and Government buildings or the lack of civil justice. I have often equated the experience of working in the Civil Service as swimming upstream in a river of molasses.

    A problem analysis (cause and effect) reveals that the root cause of the problems in the Civil Service is a lack of incentive. No entrepreneur or business person in the private sector can survive if they do not perform and produce – survival is their incentive. The Civil Service has none! Unless Civil Servants are offered rewards and sanctions for their performance there will be no change. The big question is whether the Unions will also recognize the need and work with the Public Sector Reform Unit in establishing a valid, transparent performance evaluation system on which the rewards can be based.

    Regards
    Peter Webster

    https://pics.me.me/you-cant-be-for-biggovernment-big-taxes-and-big-bureaucracy-5906597.png


  21. @Doc Martin
    Thank you for your constructive response to my comments. Before responding to some of the points you raised, I would like to say in answer to a question put to me by David but which I didn’t get around to responding to, that the type of discussion taking place between us is, in embryo form, the sort of thing I have in mind when calling for Bajans to get involved in discussing the issues facing our country. In my view these types of discussions need to be taken out from small circles and should be developed in a step by step way to include ever more ordinary Bajans. There is a lot more to be said about how this can be done, but the main point is that what I have in mind is not some government initiated commission but rather a people initiated and people centered movement aimed at Bajans becoming more political and more able to define and defend our interests.

    Now to address some of your points.
    “You do your readers a disservice by not telling the less erudite of them that you are using a Marxist model to interpret Caribbean history and society”

    To be honest rather than declaring this or that framework of analysis, I prefer to present my argument as logically and clearly as I can and present any evidence I think supports my argument and let others decide for themselves whether they find it convincing.

    “Yours is clearly an idealistic view. What is freedom? What do you mean by “scientific” especially with reference to so-called “social science”? These are relative terms and age and experience teach us that translating ideas into practical action is not as easy as it seems, even in one’s personal life!”

    I can assure you that due to age and experience, I am not in the least bit idealistic. My statement about exploitation being a necessary condition of the economic relationship between employer and employee is simply a statement which as far as I can see all the the evidence supports.

    I am more than happy to discuss what freedom means but from my perspective freedom is a concept which human beings have developed as part of describing their relationships with each other. At its most basic level it could be interpreted as people, whether collectively or individually, being able to act on the basis of their own will without external coercion. Obviously, there is a lot more to be said about how it operates in human society and the natural and social constraints which limit it at the level of the society, the social groups to which people belong and the level of the individual human being.

    What I mean by scientific is both a method of human beings gaining knowlegde of their natural and social world and the knowldge they gather using this method. Again at its most basic level, it means human beings making use of their capacity for rational thought to draw conclusions about the world around them based on evidence they have collected via their senses while interacting with the external world. Since human being are social beings, human knowledge is social and is stored and communicated via language. Human knowledge is never complete and is constantly changing in light of new discoveries and understandings. Any scientific approach recognises this and is always open to rejecting or modifying old accepted ideas if new information demonstrates that this is necessary. You are absolutely correct that the relationship between what we know/understand (theory) and what we do (practice) is indeed very complex.

    You are also right that there are contending viewpoints on practically any issue. These reflect both the clash of interests in society as expressed in the ideas circulating in the society as well as the unique contributions that individuals bring to the social effort of understanding reality. For example, we can take the view that it’s possible for human beings to scientifically investigate the natural world and come to understand it but they cannot achieve the same with regard to the social world. However, this perspective is strongly contested by another point of view which argues that since human society is the product of nature, and since biology, physics, chemistry etc all show that human beings are part of nature and affected by all its processes, there is no logical reason why human beings would be able to gain scientifc knowlegde of the the whole (nature) but not of the part (human society).


  22. @Doc Martin
    capitalism, socialism/communism, democratic socialism and Barbados
    My views on these follow. Socialism can be said to be a reaction to capitalism. The capitalist system with its centre in Europe emerged in the world from around the 15th and 16th centuries. Its birth was marked everywhere it went by the destruction of the old world and of any human freedom which stood in the way of its development. In the Caribbean, the indigenous people were enslaved and their countries violently seized. Millions of Africans were turned into private property, transported across the Atlantic and violently integrated into the new capitalist global market as producers of wealth. Even in Europe, laws were passed to deprive the poor in the countryside of access to land on which they had relied for a living for centuries. Facing destitution and starvation, they were forced to flock to the newly emerging industrial towns and cities to survive by selling their labour power. The conditions in these new cities were so horrendous that there soon arose among the workers groups and movements aiming to free the workers from their conditions of oppression. These groups which proclaimed the liberation of the working class as their aim were labeled as socialists.

    Karl Marx was an activist in this movement but was unhappy with both the analysis they put forward of the existing situation and their proposals for a solution. In the mid 19th century, he dedicated a significant period of his life to a careful evidence based analysis of the capitalist system. He argued that his work put socialism on a scientific basis because it was evidence based unlike the previous socialist doctrines which concerned themselves only with the need for the workers to free themselves from capitalist oppression. Taking his work further, Marx turned his attention to trying to understand why the social and economic systems in human society change. Basing himself primarily on a study of European history, he drew the conclusion that in the same way the capitalist system had replaced the feudal system, it would in turn be replaced by the socialist system in which the working class would become the ruling class. He argued that it would not be possible for the working class to establish a classless society straight away but would have to develop this over a period of time before it could reach a truly free human society in which each individual would have the opportunity to fully develop their talents and personality. This free society, in which he argued there would no longer be a state power standing above society, he called a communist society, while he called the phase between capitalism and this communist society socialism. It is true that Marx’s vision of a communist society was very much like communal societies. If you are interested in finding out more about traditional African societies which practised genuine egalitarian democracy, you could check out this link https://thisisafrica.me/ways-of-life-3-indigenous-anarchism/. By the way, there is currently a lot of research being done on egalitarian and democratic traditional African political systems and I think there are many principles there that Bajans would benefit from finding out about.

    Marx’s work had a major impact on the European working class movement. Those organisations from across Europe which adopted his method of analysis called themselves Social Democrats and joined together in the Second International. However in the lead up to the First World War, the organisation split over whether each Social Democratic Party should support the government of its own country in the war or should condemn the war as a crime against all workers and oppose it. Those who decided to support the war kept the name social democrats and those who opposed the war called themselves communists.

    By the end of the second world war democratic socialism had become synonomous with rule by the social democratic parties and reform of the capitalist system to take account of the interests of the working people. It had also become the preferred form of capitalst rule in Europe as the means to prevent workers supporting the communists. The basic deal or social contract was that the capitalist could remain in power and contiue to exploit the workers, but the government would intervene, primarily through ownership of parts of the economy and taxation, to balance the scales so that all the wealth didn’t flow to the capitalists leaving the workers destitute and poor as they had been previously. In most European countries, the welfare state was born with a commitment that the state would ensure that everyone had at least their basic needs met by providing necessary services such as education, health care, old age pensions, unemployment benefits etc.

    In 1920s and 1930s the young Barbados workers movement was strongly influenced by the ideas of democratic socialism. The BLP (originally the Barbados Progressive League) was formed in 1938 with the objectives of adult suffrage, free education, and better housing and health care for Bajans who after 300 years of free enterprise were not able to have these basic human needs met. In fact, in Barbados, it has been political intervention to limit the freedom of free enterprisers and prevent them from seizing all the wealth for themselves that has resulted in the improvements of conditions of life that Bajans have experienced in our lifetime. At the same time, as it was based on the reformist approach of social democracy, it left intact the old plantocracy and their control of the Barbadian economy.

    The challenge that we are facing today is that the monopoly capitalists have abandoned democratic socialism and its social compromise under capitalism. Today the new doctrine in town is neo-liberal globalisation, according to which all the wealth must go to the rich and the super rich and none should be left for the poor. Its slogans are ‘small government’ and breaking the ‘dependency syndrome’ by which they don’t mean dismantling their huge military infrastructures which burn up government dollars nor do they mean not bailing out bankers and speculators nor refusing to provide corporate welfare. No, these slogans are aimed only at destroying those services that poor people depend on. This neo-liberal globalisation and its austerity for the poor is being met with oppostion all over the world. A point in case is the current unrest in France.

    Barbados is a small country caught up in the storm of these developments. From talking to friends and family, the impression I get is that people feel we are passing through the worst period since independence. Apart from the committed DLP supporters, the general feeling seems to be that the problems have been caused by what they call ‘the incompetence of the DLP government’. They therefore reason that the solution is to vote out the DLP and vote in the BLP. I fear that in both the analysis and the proposed solution, Bajans are wrong. This is why I think it’s so important to try to get serious analysis and discussion going among Bajans of all walks of life so that more people can have an informed view of the situation we’re in and we can collectively try to work out a way out.


  23. @Tee White May 23, 2018 7:55 PM

    Thanks for your informative response and the references. You can never learn enough.

    I hope we can engage in more of this type of debate after the election is over because, whatever the outcome, we have some serious discussion… rather, activism to do. As I see it, Barbadians have reached a water shed with this election and therefore the notion that democracy is “5 minutes every 5 years in a polling booth” must now come to an end. Let’ see how the next 24 hours play out.

    Cheers


  24. @Doc Martin
    Indeed. Let’s see how things develop after the election. Cheers.

  25. Freedom Crier Avatar

    @ Doc Martin…Democracy is not every 5 years you elect people to represent you so you are represented All the time except when Parliament is dissolved. If you think you want democracy on every issue to be voted on every day you are advocating MOB RULE and Calling it Democracy. That is Not the RULE of LAW that is the RULE of the MOB.

    That is why the Constitution of America is so Beautiful in that there is elected representatives governed by the Rule of Law with a Constitution that protects the individual. Notwithstanding the three Seats of Power the Judicial, the Representatives, and the Executives.

    https://www.facebook.com/WeAreConstitutionalWatchmen/photos/a.170682626319196.44867.159188630801929/659232957464158/?type=3&theater


  26. @Freedom Crier

    You do not have to repeat and regurgitate positions, it gets monotonous.

  27. Freedom Crier Avatar

    @ David… They are many Hues of Socialism/Communism/Collectivism and Crony Capitalism so when you hear about Free Enterprise and the Sovereignty of the Individual there is only One of Those so to Combat the many Hues you have to keep repeating about Individualism and Freedom. Hope you understand my point.

    https://www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/w/wclementstone/126453/wclementstone1.jpg


  28. @Slavery Crier
    I have to say that I find your way of discussing issues to be strange and irrational. You seem to think that once you strongly believe something that makes it the truth. You do not need to explain why you think your idea is the truth nor provide any evidence that supports the truthfulness of your claim. You just need to state your belief and post it together with a meme or a quote from someone saying the same thing as your belief. Sometimes, I’m not sure if you make some of these statements because you actually don’t know that there is mountains of evidence that proves that your statements are false or if you are aware of the evidence but couldn’t care less about it and just intend to cling to your blind belief. In any event, it means that your contributions to the discussion are not very useful.

    Let us take your most recent statements on democracy. You clearly have no idea what democracy is nor what types of democratic governance the world has seen. In one of the most common definitions of democracy it is defined as a system of governance of the people, by the people and for the people. Therefore according to you, democracy is itself a form of what you call “mob rule”. You may be interested to know that concept of ‘mob rule’ is one devised by elites which has been used historically to fight against the demands from the workers and the poor for universal adult suffrage. You seem to be totally unaware of the fact that there are different types of democracy and the system of “representative democracy” which is upheld in the US constitution is only one of them.

    You seem to be unaware of the fact that the system of ‘representative democracy’ has never been democracy for the people. If you start even with its origins in the English civil war of the 16th century, you can look at the struggles between Cromwell’s forces which represented the rising English capitalist class and the organisations rpresenting the poorer sections of society like the The Levellers and Diggers over what type of democracy should be established in England after the monarchy had been overthrown and the king executed. This conflict was resolved through violence with Cromwell’s forces emerging victorious. The system of ‘representative deomcracy’ existed in Barbados alongside slavery, as it did in the USA. You must know that some of the framers of your beloved US constitution were slave masters and this document rejected the humanity of both Africans and Native Americans. Even the electoral college was devised as a mechanism precisely to nullify the influence of the ordinary people on the political process. It was the poor who through political agitation, struggle and sacrifice abolished the various property qualifications for voting and imposed universal adult suffrage on the system of “representative democracy”. In other words, according to you they imposed ‘mob rule’ on the system of ‘representative democracy’.

    People know from their practical experience that within this system of governance, their so-called political representatives do not represent them and after the election there is nothing they can do about it until 5 years time when they get their next 5 minutes in the polling booth. The electorate cannot instruct their ‘representatives’ to do anything, they cannot instantly dismiss them if they fail to carry out their election campaign promises, they cannot set the policies the governnment should follow, sovereign power lies with the parliament and not with the people and so on. So Doc Martin is absolutely right and you are absolutely wrong. You might want to compare this type of ‘representative democracy’ with this example of participatory democracy https://thisisafrica.me/ways-of-life-3-indigenous-anarchism/. I could deal with the concept of the ‘rule of law’ in similar detail but I’m not sure that there is much point at the moment.

    It would be good to have some rational contributions to the discussion from you because I’m sure it would enrich the discussion and we would all earn from them. But please stop with the posting of irrational beliefs with no logical explanation as to why you hold these beliefs and no evidence to support them. I’m sorry but memes and quotes won’t cut it.


  29. Please forgive the various typos in the above message. Hope its meaning is still clear.

  30. Freedom Crier Avatar

    @Tee White (LIES)… Dismantling The White Lies Perpetuated by the Likes of the Marxist/Communist Voices Echoing their Divisiveness on BU…

    What you find strange and irrational is because what you are proposing is Based on Marxist/ Communism that is the Godless Ideology of Atheism as compared to the Truth revealed from the Scriptures which is the Rod by which I measure all things before me.. I Know and Understand the Counterfeit of God’s Laws proportioning itself an being Benevolent and Caring. While every kind of Perverseness and Corruption Runs Through its Very Veins. It is the Opposite of Freedom, it is Tyranny and Bondage.

    Truth is Eternal whether you believe it or not and it does bear the Fruit that has been so blatant as History records of outright Murder and Devastation that Communism/Marxism/Nazism and Full Blown Socialism has caused by Endless Misery and Suffering on people.

    Free Market Capitalism did not cause the Collapse in Venezuela….SOCIALISM that is a Slow Process of ROT and DECAY did!!

    There is a Mountain of Evidence to Substantiate that your Belief System leads to nothing but Horror. My Beliefs are not Blind however you are Possessed with a lying Spirit and you seek to Deceive because what you believe is Contrary to God and His Commandments and the Sovereignty that was bequeathed on mankind at birth by his Creator..

    As to your Claims as to the different Democracy’s and you saying that I am inferring that Democracy is Mob Rule…You Seek to Twist this to suit your Bile Hatred Mentality. Let’s look at Barbados. You Tee White (LIES) could run to be a representative of the People either in a Party or as an Independent. The Reason we choose Representatives is that we hope, pray and beg that there is a Hopeful one of our wiser ones that may spend the time to understand the Particular Issue before a Judgment or law is passed. If we used Tec to give an Opinion on everything that needs to be done you could call that Participatory Democracy, we could also call that MOB RULE BY THE MAJORITY.

    In Order to avoid MOB RULE we create a Constitution wherein are Laws that Protects the Minority from the Majority. Wither it be in Religion, Ethnicity or Economics or Education. How is Protecting the Rights of an Individual that I advocate perceived as Elitist? Your brain would have to be WARPED when you said MOB RULE is by Elitist. The Definition of Elitist is a SMALL SELECT group who seek to rule over others while everyone else are Serfs. And you are equating a Mob Rule with a Small Select Group?

    Please do not trip over yourself so many times. Another example of you tripping over yourself is that, the Maintenance of Socialism/Marxism etc. is by Force and you who Advocate that Dogma dare call Freedom Crier Slave Crier when the Enforcers of these Isms are the Slave Masters. A favourite Ploy of the Left is to accuse those who they disagree with of what they themselves are guilty of.

    “Socialism is not in the least what it pretends to be. It is not the pioneer of a better and finer world, but the spoiler of what thousands of years of civilization have created. It does not build, it destroys. For destruction is the essence of it. It produces nothing, it only consumes what the social order based on private ownership in the means of production has created” — Ludwig von Mises.

    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gTRScP_SAok/WFk1aOo6GJI/AAAAAAAAP-Q/j6uKBOeWvugs2BDdDV43eAUAaj-0x8VJACLcB/s1600/SOWELL%2B-%2B1.jpg

  31. Freedom Crier Avatar

    “The worst evils which mankind has ever had to endure were inflicted by bad governments.” Ludwig von Mises

    In Times past we Needed a place like Hyde Park to let our voices be heard nowadays we have the Internet. We can warn and teach others almost instantaneously of the Perils that infringe on our Freedoms. This remedy is the power of the citizens; they have to prevent the establishment of such an autocratic regime that arrogates to itself a higher wisdom than that of the average citizen. This is the fundamental difference between Freedom and Serfdom…Whoever wants peace among nations must seek to limit the state and its influence most strictly…. The planner is a potential dictator who wants to deprive all other people of the power to plan and act according to their own plans. He aims at one thing only: the exclusive absolute pre-eminence of his own plan for Example, Stalin, Hitler Mao, Pol Pot, Fidel Castro and Ilk. Such are the Heroes and Mentors of Tee White (LIES).

    All rational action is in the first place individual action. Only the individual thinks. Only an individual Reasons, only the individual acts. The idea that political freedom can be preserved in the absence of economic freedom, and vice versa, is an illusion. Political freedom is the corollary of economic freedom. Economic history is a long record of government policies that failed because they were designed with a bold disregard for the laws of economics.

    Freedom is indivisible. As soon as one starts to restrict it, one enters upon a decline on which it is difficult to stop.
    This is the difference between slavery and freedom. The slave must do what his superior orders him to do, but the free citizen-and this is what freedom means-is in a position to choose his own way of life.

    State interference in economic life, which calls itself economic policy, has done nothing but destroy economic life. Prohibitions and regulations have by their general obstructive tendency fostered the growth of the spirit of wastefulness.

    A new type of superstition has got hold of people’s minds, the worship of the state. People demand the exercise of the methods of coercion and compulsion, of violence and threat. Woe to anybody who does not bend his knee to the fashionable idols!

    This is the meaning of all the struggles for liberty.

    It is vain to fight totalitarianism by adopting totalitarian methods. Freedom can only be won by men unconditionally committed to the principles of freedom. The first requisite for a better social order is the return to unrestricted freedom of thought and speech.

    Depressions and mass unemployment are not caused by the Free Market but by Government Interference in the Economy.

    BANG ON!!!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7j3TTRW4AALd4x.jpg

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